Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Americans should not at all pay the trillions of debt the banks ran up from their betting spree. The banks should become history. Sure that will cause all kinds of chaos but that's better IMO than living under the tyranny of a plutocracy. The sheeple however are too brave and probably willing sheep for plutocrat rule. People in the US need to stand up against the plutocrats and create real change. Need to check with Las Vegas though on the odds for that happening You've probably seen this clip from the movie The International which lays it all out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZUIUrT_f0 The real value of a conflict is the debt it creates. The screenwriter said he was surprised that people didn't understand this. We live in a world of thieves and scoundrels. On 01/19/2013 03:00 AM, seekliberation wrote: I couldn't upload the website because my reception is limited where i'm at. Regarding our prosperity being credit based, yeah...that sums up the point I was trying to make earlier. It seems that there are some optimistic people that believe we can gradually fix the mess that was created without any major sacrifices or difficulties spreadload among all of us. People just don't want to wake up to how bad this situation really is. Regarding US taking over the world? We can't even get one province in Afghanistan under control. We've dropped thousands of bombs, sent in our Green Berets, Navy Seals, and SpecOps Marines, and we still don't have that place settled down. And Afghanistan is the least educated nation in the world, with the worst economy next to perhaps one or two African nations. We simply don't have the capacity to take over anything now. And the more we expend trying to fix problems throughout the world, the less we have to capacity to protect ourselves at home. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/01/interview-on-business-matters.html American prosperity has been credit based and now we can't pay the bill. The party's over unless the US takes over and rules the world. Is that the plan?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
On 01/18/2013 04:55 AM, seekliberation wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: No, cutting benefits is not the way to solve the problem. To get the economy to a point where we can deal with the debt, we need to increase demand, and that will only happen if people have money to spend on goods and services. Taking austerity measures is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. When I said 'benefits' I should've said 'spending' instead. Benefits like Medicare and Social Security, of course they shouldn't be cut. But at the same time, they're not really benefits, they're entitlements. We pay into it, and therefore we're entitled to it. However, I will say that your idea that 'taking austere measures' is uncalled for indicates you have a positive outlook on the American economy and are convinced that there is an easy way out of this mess. I hope you're right, but I don't think so. No, there's no reason why we have to have a third-world economy. No reason at all? That, to me, sounds like typical American optimism. We will never have to endure through the hardships that other people and other nations go through, because we are above those hardships. But irresponsible spending, fiscal policies, and unnecessary wars could very easily lead to a collapsed economy. For some odd reason people think we're above what the Soviet Union experienced in the early 90's. The basis of thinking that way eludes me to this day. It's no different than some of my family members and friends who used to look down on people who live in trailer parks or lower income housing. They think they are so far above everyone else's lower standards of living. Now they are living that way due to poor personal and financial decisions throughout their lives. No different than us as a nation and our sense of being above the challenges that face most countries. Dmitri Orlov, who immigrated to the US after the collapse of the Soviet Union, lectures quite frequently about the difference between that collapse and the coming collapse of the US. Here is a link to his blog and to an interview he did late last year on the subject. He makes some excellent points. http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2013/01/interview-on-business-matters.html American prosperity has been credit based and now we can't pay the bill. The party's over unless the US takes over and rules the world. Is that the plan?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Good analysis Barry - if one can believe the memories of Joyce Collin Smith, Maha might have been legit from the 50's till he hit the West. The following is from her obit in the Guardian - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/8317131/Joyce-Collin-Smith.html Perhaps inevitably, in the early 1960s Joyce moved on to the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who initiated her into the practice of Transcendental Meditation (TM) in his early days in the West. Feeling that she had finally found a genuine master – a Guru, she spent about eight years with the Maharishi and also served as his driver. After a while, however, she began to feel that the guru was beginning to lose his cleanness of intent. She noted that he was becoming rather ruthless in the use of his spiritual power, showing no concern when people began breaking down as a result of practising TM (she herself was once driven to the brink of suicide as a result of overindulging in the practice), demanding big fees for spiritual benefits, and discarding those followers who could not pay. It was the beginning of her disillusionment with him. The final straw was the arrival of the Beatles From: wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? Yes, Madoff was a criminal possessed by Greed and MMY was a Hindu fundamentalist with a Messiah complex. (At least MMY has done some good.) For the record, I agree with BillyG's distinction here. I think his short description of Maharishi is somewhat accurate, and that -- unlike Bernie Madoff -- he was driven in his early years by a genuine desire to save the world. As the years progressed, and he got more and more attention from his followers and the press, I believe that desire shifted to save the world, as long as *I* get the credit for saving it. Towards the end of his days, I suspect that his desire shifted again to save India, get the rest of the world to pay for it, and gather as much money as I can towards that end so that after my death *I* will still get credit for it in India, the only place that matters. Unlike some, I don't believe that he set out to be a charlatan. I believe instead that -- like so many other teachers who ignored the advice of *their* teachers and began to teach before they were ready to handle the pressures of doing so, that he was taken out along the way by ego, by his own previously sublimated desires, and finally by believing his own PR, meaning that he began to believe the projections of near-godhood beamed at him by his naive Western followers and some of his Indian ones. I have a good friend who went to India, studied there for a long time, and began to teach as well, *but* making it perfectly clear in *every* talk that he gave that he was *not* enlightened, *not* a guru, and *not* anything more than an enthusiastic guy wanting to spread what he felt was uplifting knowledge. He loved India and wanted to stay there, but he finally had to leave because the Indians were having none of it. They would call him guru despite his protestations, they would show up at his door at all hours of the night seeking darshan, and they finally made his life there untenable, so he left. I feel that this is a *very* wise decision on the part of my friend, and I commend him for it. He, like me, has seen many teachers who *succumbed* to this level of attention, projected onto them by their followers, and allowed it to inflate their egos and turn them into something that they themselves would have abhorred in the early days of their teaching. My friend didn't want that to happen to him, so he beat feet. Wise man. My honest assessment of Maharishi, in one word, is naive. He didn't believe it when Guru Dev suggested that he was not ready to teach, and did it anyway. He thought he could handle it. Same with the Rama guy I studied with for a while...he very much thought that he could handle it. Neither could. Both changed a great deal over the course of their teaching careers, and not in positive ways. In other words, Michael, I'm again presenting a different way of looking at the same scenario to avoid the temptation of seeing it in completely black-and-white terms. I don't see Maharishi as an evil guy, or even one motivated entirely by money, like Bernie Madoff. I see him instead as a pretty normal guy with narcissistic tendencies, tendencies which were amplified over the years to become Class-A Narcissism. And yes, as BillyG suggests, along the way he did some good *anyway*.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? From: seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! I predict a 20+ trillion debt after he leaves office too. But we, voters, are just as much to blame, as well as Republicans. Who was the last Republican president to balance the budget? I'm not sure...but I think it was Eisenhower. Moreover, Republican candidate Mitt Romney didn't really indicate to me, as a voter, that he had any magic plans to fix the economy. Paul Ryan, however, did propose a balanced budget.only to be ridiculed publicly by Obama. And so people voted for Obama. The idea of a budget that involves taking any benefits away is unacceptable by most people. Bottom line, Americans expect more than what the government can offer. We are so used to so many benefits that we will revolt once they are gone. It is like a stuck-up child turning 18 and experiencing shock as a result of thier discovery of how hard it really is to earn what they've been given all their lives. But if someone insists on blaming a specific political party, be my guest. Regardless of who's fault it is, people are going to discover what a hard life truly is as things get worse. I'm not sure exactly how people define greed. I know Conservatives are a scapegoat for this quality. But I personally consider greed to be any form of expectation without sacrifice to be 'greed'. And sacrifice has become a 4-letter word in our modern America. I don't see much difference between someone like Bernie Madoff and someone on welfare (excluding the mentally and physically disabled). The only difference to me is in the number of people screwed by their efforts. But the psychology and ideology are the exact same. I want 'stuff' and I don't want to sweat for it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: Ah, no big deal! And jeepers, what a great legacy he will leave behind. (How sad for America, and the world.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Well I do see a difference - Marshy got away with it and over time was a much more successful con artist than Bernie - and Marshy never went to jail. Blindness has many flavors - religious zealotry is one of them. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! Yes. And if you don't, you are a fool, blinded by your own resentments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? From: seekliberation To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! Â I predict a 20+ trillion debt after he leaves office too. But we, voters, are just as much to blame, as well as Republicans. Who was the last Republican president to balance the budget? I'm not sure...but I think it was Eisenhower. Moreover, Republican candidate Mitt Romney didn't really indicate to me, as a voter, that he had any magic plans to fix the economy. Paul Ryan, however, did propose a balanced budget.only to be ridiculed publicly by Obama. And so people voted for Obama. The idea of a budget that involves taking any benefits away is unacceptable by most people. Bottom line, Americans expect more than what the government can offer. We are so used to so many benefits that we will revolt once they are gone. It is like a stuck-up child turning 18 and experiencing shock as a result of thier discovery of how hard it really is to earn what they've been given all their lives. But if someone insists on blaming a specific political party, be my guest. Regardless of who's fault it is, people are going to discover what a hard life truly is as things get worse. I'm not sure exactly how people define greed. I know Conservatives are a scapegoat for this quality. But I personally consider greed to be any form of expectation without sacrifice to be 'greed'. And sacrifice has become a 4-letter word in our modern America. I don't see much difference between someone like Bernie Madoff and someone on welfare (excluding the mentally and physically disabled). The only difference to me is in the number of people screwed by their efforts. But the psychology and ideology are the exact same. I want 'stuff' and I don't want to sweat for it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: Ah, no big deal! And jeepers, what a great legacy he will leave behind. (How sad for America, and the world.)
