Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Peter


--- markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine
 salsunshine@
  wrote:
  
   
   On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:51 AM, anon_astute_ff
 wrote:
   
 MMY actually does a lot of things in a classy
 way -- perhaps too
 polished for many of our tastes.
   
   Sterile, elitist and  completely removed from
 reality has little
 to do 
   with real class, which generally isn't something
 you can buy or put a 
   label on.
  
  
  OK, you don't look like one of the target
 customers. 
  
  
   
But that he or his team eventually
 are the ones that do IT right within 10
 years, I think is possible,
 but probably less than 10% probability. That
 SOMEONE does it
 right --
 with M. type prices, within 10 years, I think
 has a greater
 than 50%
 probability.
   
   I'd stay away from the casinos at Vegas if I
 were you.
  
  Because they are without class I presume. If you
 are conserned about
  my probabilities, are you thinking that its a
 greater than 10%
  probability that the ne0-TMO will be able to put
 together a service
  that appeals to those making  $300k ? Wow. you
 are optimistic.
  
  My point has been that the above is not a non-zero
 probability, though
  it may be low. As you learn when you formally
 study probability and
  risk, most people are quite prone to incorrectly
 assign extreme
  probabilities e.g., (It will never happen).
 
 MMY protege Ravi Shankar (pundiji) is now way more
 popular in India
 and the rest of the world than MMY, so it's possible
 some neo-TM
 program could emerge someday, but definitely not
 until after MMY goes
 and probably not from within the current inner
 circle.

SSRS is popular because he is just a normal, authentic
guy. MMY has always had the touch of an elitist to him
and his movement reflects this. SSRS movement is not
elitist at all. In fact it goes out of its way to make
everyone feel equal and comfortable.



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 4:02 AM, sparaig wrote:

 TTC cost what, $10,000 or so for 40,000 people over 40 years. That's
 $400 million or $10 million per year, gross. The siddhis were $4000
 for several 10's of thousands, for another, say $100-400 million,
 gross. MAPI pulls in several million a month, gross. The figures
 don't add up. The TMO would be lucky to have pulled in $4 billion
 over the last 50 years, gross revenue, before ANY kind of overhead is
 counted.

There are certain services you aren't including which would have a  
huge profit margin--namely services performed in India. The prices  
for movement yagyas were insanely high--so they were making a huge  
profit there. Same with MAPI products, also made there, for a few  
rupees. Also with Jyotish, prices were higher, but given to Indians  
who probably only got a few rupees comparatively. There were also  
tours of ayurvedic physicians like Trigunaji who would take your  
pulse for hundreds of dollars--how much do you think he got? The  
Amrit Kalash formula and numerous other formulae were given to Mahesh  
under the provision they were used to benefit humanity but not to  
make money (but his greed could not ignore the potential profit of  
such items). And of course there is 'bilking the elite' for  
donations. The pundit project has to be the best rip-off project yet  
conceived--and also extremely profitable.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 4:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:

 Well, duh. Fanaticism (Our technique is the best;
 all other techniques are lesser) is part and parcel
 of the TM dogma.

Let's not forget (how could we, we hear it here everyday), it's also  
deeply trained and conditioned into adherents: effortless, best,  
fastest and will get you fully enlightened.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Rick Archer
on 3/25/06 8:21 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 And as long as we're having Fun With Fanaticism, how
 'bout the teachers who mindlessly repeat TM is 100%
 life supporting, and has no negative side effects,
 after having seen people twitching uncontrollably
 on their own TTC courses?

That is interpreted as being symptomatic of something good happening.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Rick Archer
on 3/25/06 12:19 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 on 3/25/06 8:21 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 And as long as we're having Fun With Fanaticism, how
 'bout the teachers who mindlessly repeat TM is 100%
 life supporting, and has no negative side effects,
 after having seen people twitching uncontrollably
 on their own TTC courses?
 
 That is interpreted as being symptomatic of something good happening.
 
 
 Do you have an explanation for it as in something bad is happening?
 WHat would it be?

I think it can be either. I went through a phase like that, and something
good was definitely happening, but some ended up suicidal or in a nut house.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Sal Sunshine

On Mar 25, 2006, at 12:20 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote:

 > > Things like dedication and service are not valued in 
 > > the TM movement, doncha know? Only making money is. 
 > > Get with the program.
 > >
 > 
 > Took a long time to learn about that, I was stubborn. Much to my
 > detrement. 
 > 
 > JohnY

 And its generally weak people who base their lives on what others
 think of them, on what others value in them, being the puppet of
 others values, instead of figuring out what needs to be done and doing
 it. No fruit or reward needed.

And that's exactly the kind of attitude the TMO looks for in people, call it the Doormat technique.  

Sal


Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 12:28 PM, jyouells2000 wrote:

 Took a long time to learn about that, I was stubborn. Much to my
 detrement.

It's caused suffering to many people. Some will be damaged for this  
lifetime--maybe longer.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Sal Sunshine

On Mar 25, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 I think it can be either. I went through a phase like that, and something
 good was definitely happening, but some ended up suicidal or in a nut house.


And the rest of us ended up in Fairfield. :)

I remember when they did away with the sound effects in the Dome, at least in the women's.  It went from sounding like a zoo at feeding time to sounding like a morgue.  Ah, what fun it was back then. :)

Sal

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote:

 I already mentioned MAPI products,

Yes, but you failed to mention the Indian side of the equation, nor  
did you mention (or you may not have known) that some key formulae  
were what we might call 'stolen intellectual property'.

 Triguna only dealt a few hundred
 or thousand students at a time at most, so his contributions are
 insignificant.

How much was the pulse diagnosis from him? $300? $500? I forget.  
Multiply that times thousands and you have a big chunk of change.  
Esp. considering you could visit him in India, get a consult and 3  
months of herbs for under 100 USD.

 And how much was collected for the pundit project in
 MUM?

Who knows? Do you think they are suddenly going to be a responsible  
and transparent org? No, of course they are not nor will they be.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  On Mar 25, 2006, at 4:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
   Well, duh. Fanaticism (Our technique is the best;
   all other techniques are lesser) is part and parcel
   of the TM dogma.
 
  Let's not forget (how could we, we hear it here everyday), it's also
  deeply trained and conditioned into adherents: effortless, best,
  fastest and will get you fully enlightened.
 

 How do you know it won't?

How do we know a house will not be finished when there are pieces  
missing or if there is insufficient technology to complete it?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 1:19 PM, sparaig wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  on 3/25/06 8:21 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   And as long as we're having Fun With Fanaticism, how
   'bout the teachers who mindlessly repeat TM is 100%
   life supporting, and has no negative side effects,
   after having seen people twitching uncontrollably
   on their own TTC courses?
 
  That is interpreted as being symptomatic of something good  
 happening.
 

 Do you have an explanation for it as in something bad is happening?
 WHat would it be?

An irreversible neurological disorder?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-25 Thread Vaj

On Mar 25, 2006, at 1:55 PM, sparaig wrote:

That is interpreted as being symptomatic of something good
   happening.
   
  
   Do you have an explanation for it as in something bad is
 happening?
   WHat would it be?
 
  An irreversible neurological disorder?
 

 Due to thinking a mantra in a quasi effortless way?

Any number of reasons--over meditation, insufficient training, lack  
of walking meditation, impermeability to increased shakti, etc., etc.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

 And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its quite a
 closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of
 possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of society will
 be going to SV centers to learn TM.

It's also rather naive to think that the top 2-3% of society-- 
arguably the most sophisticated shoppers and consumers--would not  
see through the 20,000+ USD it would take to get the TM technique  
it's not-so-advanced TM advanced techniques and the TM$P. It would  
not take a great deal of savy in the Spiritual Supermarket to know  
that you could get a lot more for a lot less than what TM programs  
cost--even if the prices were significantly reduced. Also the level  
of spiritual naivete on 'things eastern' is much less than it was in  
TM's hayday. It is likely the level of understanding will only  
increase in the future, further lessening the palatability of 'be-all  
and end-all' meditation techniques sold as a fast-track to  
enlightenment.

And hasn't the main influx in Neo-Hindu meditation *already* shifted  
to SSRS's empire--including the top 2-3%?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:04 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:
 
   And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its  
 quite a
   closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of
   possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of  
 society will
   be going to SV centers to learn TM.
 
  It's also rather naive to think that the top 2-3% of society--
  arguably the most sophisticated shoppers and consumers--would not
And while I am not saying it will happen, the 20,000+ USD it
 would take to get the TM technique
  it's not-so-advanced TM advanced techniques and the TM$P. It would
  not take a great deal of savy in the Spiritual Supermarket to know
  that you could get a lot more for a lot less than what TM programs
  cost--even if the prices were significantly reduced.

 Yes,, all the elite golfers in 10 years finally saw through the
 ridiculous pricing ofcountry clubs and are all flocking to public
 courses. And Nordstroms is closing in 2016 I hear, all the elites got
 wise and started shopping at walmart as they saw through the
 Nordstoms fluff. And the Four Seasons hotel chain is closing in 2016
 its doors. Those savy elites finally got it that they could get a bed
 at motel 6 for 1/10 the price.

This is not an analogous comparison: in each of the above instances,  
when you pay more money, you get more. The elite know this and will  
pay more, to get more. They are therefore unlikely to pay more for TM  
to get less when they can get more--often much more--elsewhere for  
their buck.


  Also the level
  of spiritual naivete on 'things eastern' is much less than it was in
  TM's hayday. It is likely the level of understanding will only
  increase in the future, further lessening the palatability of 'be- 
 all
  and end-all' meditation techniques sold as a fast-track to
  enlightenment.
 
  And hasn't the main influx in Neo-Hindu meditation *already* shifted
  to SSRS's empire--including the top 2-3%?

 And what pray tell does that have to do with the possibilities of a
 speculative though possible manifestation of a neo-TM in Years?

The market sector they are trying to tap will have have bought or  
buy elsewhere. Less market = less money.

 But I disagree with your assessment of AOL. Lots of elites I dont
 think want to sit on the floor in funky facilities and sing bajans, or
 go to courses and hug everyone while saying I belong to you, or
 sleep in a room with a stranger -- at shared rooms or dorm room  only
 facilities.

Or the toxic mold of Livingston Manor? It would be interesting to  
know what the occupancy rates are at the Raj--a facility which might  
appeal to some elite who enjoy vacations in Iowa.

There's more than AOL out there. The Spiritual Supermarket has grown.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj



On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:25 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people who are looking for the "spiritually hip" kind of an oxymoron. I wanna be "spiritual" but my ego needs to feel"hip"."Ego is able to convert everything to its own use, even spirituality.  For example, if you have learned of a particularly beneficial meditation technique of spiritual practice, then ego's attitude is, first to regard it as an object of fascination and, second to examine it.  Finally, since ego is seeming solid and cannot really absorb anything, it can only mimic.  Thus ego tries to examine and imitate the practice of meditation and the meditative way of life.  When we have learned all the tricks and answers of the spiritual game, we automatically try to imitate spirituality, since real involvement would require the complete elimination of ego, and actually the last thing we want to do is to give up the ego completely.  However, we cannot experience that which we are trying to imitate; we can only find some area within the bounds of ego that seems to be the same thing.  Ego translates everything in terms of its own state of health, its own inherent qualities.  It feels a sense of great accomplishment and excitement at have been able to create such a pattern.  At last it has created a tangible accomplishment, a confirmation of its own individuality.        If we become successful at maintaining our self-consciousness through spiritual techniques, then genuine spiritual development is highly unlikely.  Our mental habits become so strong as to be hard to penetrate.  We may even go so far as to achieve the totally demonic state of complete "Egohood.""_fr. "Spiritual Materialism" C. Trungpa.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:25 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  The people who are looking for the spiritually hip

 kind of an oxymoron. I wanna be spiritual but my ego needs to feel
 hip.

That is why in it's distorted manifestation, Spirituality becomes  
Spiritual Materialism.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_materialism

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/cutting.htm




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Sal Sunshine

On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:51 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

 MMY actually does a lot of things in a classy way -- perhaps too
 polished for many of our tastes.

Sterile, elitist and  completely removed from reality has little to do with real class, which generally isn't something you can buy or put a label on.

But that he or his team eventually
 are the ones that do IT right within 10 years, I think is possible,
 but probably less than 10% probability. That SOMEONE does it right --
 with M. type prices, within 10 years, I think has a greater than 50%
 probability.

I'd stay away from the casinos at Vegas if I were you.


Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:51 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

   Yes,, all the elite golfers in 10 years finally saw through the
   ridiculous pricing ofcountry clubs and are all flocking to public
   courses. And Nordstroms is closing in 2016 I hear, all the  
 elites got
   wise and started shopping at walmart as they saw through the
   Nordstoms fluff. And the Four Seasons hotel chain is closing in  
 2016
   its doors. Those savy elites finally got it that they could get  
 a bed
   at motel 6 for 1/10 the price.
 
  This is not an analogous comparison: in each of the above instances,
  when you pay more money, you get more. The elite know this and  
 will
  pay more, to get more. They are therefore unlikely to pay more  
 for TM
  to get less when they can get more--often much more--elsewhere for
  their buck.

 What is the more that they get? They all get similar clothing, a
 safe bed and shower, and a place to play golf. The extra non-core
 attributes, some value some don't. Many elite do value them and will
 pay for them.

Finer quality clothing; nicer room with many amenities like internet  
on your TV with wireless, even butlers at some hotels, several rooms,  
massage, etc.; nicer greens, top-rate gourmet restuarant, nicer  
clubhouse, celebs, politicians, etc.

 How can you possibly say with certainty that the beyond core
 attributes that the TMO, or some org, is able to provide in 10 years
 will not have sufficient value to the top 3% of earners that they will
 pay for them?

It's just my sense from being at around other people of what they  
want. TM has been passe for a while now. Overpriced TM is even more  
passe.



   But I disagree with your assessment of AOL. Lots of elites I dont
   think want to sit on the floor in funky facilities and sing  
 bajans, or
   go to courses and hug everyone while saying I belong to you, or
   sleep in a room with a stranger -- at shared rooms or dorm  
 room  only
   facilities.
 
  Or the toxic mold of Livingston Manor? It would be interesting to
  know what the occupancy rates are at the Raj--a facility which might
  appeal to some elite who enjoy vacations in Iowa.
 
 You and Barry can contine to respond to ghost posts that manifest only
 in your minds, but the point I am raising as conjecture is that a
 neo-TM in ten years, if properly done, may be attractive to the top
 2-3% of incomes earners. That has nothing to do with toxix mold in
 Livingsoton Manor in 2006.

I was responding to your comments on funky facilities.


 Regarding the Raj, I have not been there so Ican't address it. But I
 have been to Chopra's Center in La Jolla, and lots of elites  were
 flocking there. And his prices were on par, perhaps higher than the
 Raj. And 20 times what the local AV tech was offering 5 miles away in
 Pacific Beach, in their garage for the same thing.

Exactly--and it is these type of places I would expect to continue to  
see elites go to.


 My point has little to  do with the TM brand, and nothing to do with
 loyalties to the TM -- I left for the most part, body, heart and soul,
 in 1978. But I think that there is an opportunity and need
 for SOMEONE, som org, to do IT in a classy, polished  that appeals to
 the upper strata of society. And clients will be happy to pay a
 premium price.

Yes, I agree--I just would be amazed if it was the TMO. There already  
are such facilities (as you pointed out) and some appear to be be  
doing quite well.

Did you happen to catch the 60 Minutes installment on people who go  
to Thailand and India for surgeries? It's incredible. The same thing  
is happening with panchakarma. It's very, very reasonable and you  
receive better care than in the US.


 MMY actually does a lot of things in a classy way -- perhaps too
 polished for many of our tastes. But that he or his team eventually
 are the ones that do IT right within 10 years, I think is possible,
 but probably less than 10% probability. That SOMEONE does it right --
 with M. type prices, within 10 years, I think has a greater than 50%
 probability.

Some of the things are done very well. For example, if anything, I  
could see elite continuing to use TMO panchakarma mansions if another  
similar facility does not happen. Some may learn TM while there. The  
organic farming subscription plan also sounds very promising to me-- 
and you have a sense this will be done quite well--certainly better  
than federal standards. I have a colleague whose daughter is raking  
in 200K a year on her own organic farm, which is rather small, so it  
could also work--if the movement doesn't fold.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Sal Sunshine
It's always so refreshing to see how those who are the most enthusiastic about TM are also those who show such understanding and  open-mindedness  to other ways of thinking.  Clearly, TM is working for you.  What's the next step...witch burnings?  Public hangings?

Sal


On Mar 24, 2006, at 4:16 PM, bob_brigante wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > In what way is SSRS more popular?
 >

 

 He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light 
 of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools.




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Sal Sunshine
It's all part of the Kalyuga, Anon.  Bob can't let his natural  light shine through on this forum because all the rest of us wallowing in darkness would be blinded by the blaze.   

Sal


On Mar 24, 2006, at 4:20 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@> wrote:
 > >
 > > In what way is SSRS more popular?
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light 
 > of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools.


 Ah, though we have had some great displays of arrogance today, I think
 Bob takes the crown.



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 5:16 PM, bob_brigante wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  In what way is SSRS more popular?
 

 

 He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light
 of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools.

Ah, yes, the Darth Shankar theory.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-24 Thread Vaj

On Mar 24, 2006, at 5:33 PM, sparaig wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   In what way is SSRS more popular?
  
 
  
 
  He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light
  of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools.
 

 Shrug. I don't know what the poison reference was about, and I suspect
 you don't either.


Mahesh once called SSRS sweet poison. Not sure if he giggled or  
scowled when he said it. Not sure it matters...

...it has been speculated that what M. *really* meant was SSRS was a  
sweet poison to your ignorance or something like that. He poisons  
your small self.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

2006-03-23 Thread Rick Archer
on 3/23/06 2:16 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Also, the TMO is working hard to make educators aware of the potential
 of TM as well as of the financing available to take advantage of it:

They shouldn't bother, because as soon as the educators get wind of rajas,
Hail Mugabe, and rebuilding all the world's cities, they'll run scared.
OTOH, they may go to Mike Scozzari, Farrokh, and other independent teachers
who'll teach TM pure and simple, at a reasonable price.




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