Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris on 9/4/06 11:11 PM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, thanks for responding. I would welcome an opportunity to both discuss this topic more, and to meet people who you feel represent a level of realization. My case may be somewhat different from what you stated because I myself had experiences of higher states through MMY's programs. But my understanding of what those experiences mean has changed radically. So for me to meet someone who has a self identity as a realized person, or has a deep experiential connection with some form of God, might not shift my point of view. I had them too. But, for me, that doesn't mean there really is a God. It is just life itself that give me the wow factor in my life. I don't feel as though spiritual experiences or perspectives add much to my life. But an opportunity to be shown my own limits of understanding is always welcome. I have been wrong so many times in my life that I have learned not to bolt any doors that I may have shut! These days I am more interested in ethics. If a person acts in a kind, loving way to others, that is good enough for me. If their belief in God helps them act that way, more power to them. I aspire to be act kindly. That takes the place of my previous spiritual aspirations. And for such a simple goal, it's consistent realization is quite a challenge in daily life. Zen teacher Ellen Birx writes in her book Healing Zen: Awakening to a Life of Wholeness and Compassion While Caring for Yourself and Others (Viking Compass 2002) Yamada Roshi spoke of four types of people: an ordinary person without enlightenment, an ordinary person with enlightenment, a saint without enlightenment, and a saint with enlightenment. Of course, the fourth type is what we would all like to be and what the world needs most. However, what this scheme is pointing out is that personal insight and saintly action in the world do not necessarily go hand in hand. Insight alone is not enough. Insight must be coupled with an ongoing effort to actualize in your actions what you have realized through mediation practice. Insight is actualized through service. (Page 232- chapter on SERVICE - Doing What Needs to Be Done). __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris on 9/5/06 2:56 PM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I don't aspire to be more than an ordinary person without enlightenment, I appreciate the quote, thanks. I think youve already become more than that. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Newsweek on Dawkins and Harris on 9/3/06 10:23 PM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for posting this, I would have missed it. I am so happy that this perspective is in the mainstream media and on a group like this. It speaks well for the open mindedness of both. I think at the end of the article they misjudged the number of people who have dropped the belief in any of the recently popular God ideas on earth. I am not a member of the American Atheists which they use as the low number of people who think this way. I can say that being an outspoken, positive atheist makes me a safe person for some people to express their spiritual doubts to. I have so often been pulled aside when I have expressed my lack of belief by someone who feels bullied by believers to tow the party line. I know that faith and mystical experience is cherished by many here on this group. I greatly appreciate that my lack of valuing these experiences and beliefs is accepted by most of the people I communicate with here. We all have our own reasons for including and excluding beliefs. Nobody believes everything. We are all on that same human mission to discover the meaning for our own lives. That is a much greater commonality than whatever specifics each of us has come up with so far. I consider myself and everyone here a work in progress. I enjoy hearing about and sharing what we are noticing along the way. This post made me feel really glad I check in here, thanks. Kumbaya baby. Thanks purushaz. I wish I had time to get into a serious discussion with you about this. Maybe some time in person. But heres my take in a nutshell. Essentially, these guys are objecting to the fanaticism that results from belief unsupported by experience. I very much believe in God, but I think belief without substantiating experience usually does more harm than good. Its still rare as a percentage of the worlds population, but many have attained that level of experience, including some friends of mine. These people exist at the opposite end of the spectrum from religious fanatics, have a wonderful influence on the world around them, and would charm the socks off Dawkins and Harris. If guys like that (and yourself as well) could spend enough face time with the kind of people Im talking about, they would probably end up rethinking their perspective. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
