Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
Susan thank you for your feedback on the numbers you taught, I really am interested in knowing - Bob Roth and the TMO like to imply that 6 million have learned and are still meditating, and others have said maybe 10% of those who were taught continued - I guess the actual figure is somewhere in between. From: Susan waybac...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more serious about giving TM a good long try. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offer only pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment. And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. You laid out your reasons. They appear well thought out. I am sorry if I remain unconvinced. I wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. My position remains the same. Let the results speak for themselves. That appears to be the last thing you want to consider.  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I wrote it because you asked
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
I am aware of it, and would like to read it - I am a little skeptical as he has been doing TM for years and is working with the TMO to promote it - but I am certainly willing to see what he thinks about it all. From: Susan waybac...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Michael, I am not sure if you saw the second part of my post. Did you read the book Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD who is working with vets and TM? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Susan thank you for your feedback on the numbers you taught, I really am interested in knowing - Bob Roth and the TMO like to imply that 6 million have learned and are still meditating, and others have said maybe 10% of those who were taught continued - I guess the actual figure is somewhere in between. From: Susan To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more serious about giving TM a good long try. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offerÂÂ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. TM was always marketed as the be all and end all of meditations and it is not, so with so many alternatives out there that do not carry the blemishes of Marshy, TMO and known unpleasant effects (unstressing) I prefer to see them doing something else. Also from a personal point of view, although some here say they always did TM for the extra rest, or that it made them feel better TM from 1955 to the late 70's, early 80's was always marketed as a way to achieve fullness of life - by gaining enlightenment. I no longer believe that anyone will ever gain enlightenment through practicing TM, there has never been anyone who has that I have ever heard of - those who claim to have been seem to either create their own self aggrandizing cults or become real basket cases. Those who report strong experiences of what came to, in TM speak, be called CC, GC or UC seem to have fallen out of those states after a time. Some teachers like Adyashanti and Eckhart Tolle say that no one will ever become enlightened through ANY kind of meditation since what we consider as the state of enlightenment is our natural state of being, so if the original reason to do TM is not going to happen, why run around shouting TM is good from the rooftops? From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Unstressing as I understand it is the release of stress from the physiology and mind/emotions in an amount or to such a degree that the release is uncomfortable and/or results in unpleasant and sometimes inappropriate manifestation of mental/emotional states and behavior that is detrimental to the individual. That's how the term unstressing is commonly used, but in my understanding, technically it refers to what happens during TM practice automatically. Thoughts that arise in meditation are said to be release of stress, even if they're pleasant. People with PTSD are already in the midst of such non-TM unstressing with flashbacks, intrusive thoughts and nightmares, they don’t need a technique that creates more unstressing. I agree. Let me ask you a hypothetical question, though. If TM were to be taught to PTSD sufferers by an independent group of folks trained as TM teachers but no longer loyal to the TMO, just as a mental technique without all the frills, and they had special training in how to minimize uncomfortable unstressing (reducing meditation time, etc.--down to zero, if necessary)--*and* using whatever other techniques had been shown to be helpful--would you be as adamantly opposed?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
On 01/12/2013 01:30 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. As would I, having done a bit of research on PTSD in the past year. The condition or syndrome known as post-traumatic stress disorder revolves around an inability to get over experiences and impressions from the past, and live in the present, as if these impressions were no longer a ruling factor. Nothing I have seen in my over-46-year-experience with TM suggests to me that it enables people to do this. To the contrary, I find that most long-term TMers are more locked into and ruled by impressions from the past than normal, everyday, non-meditators. Recent research has shown that there is a one-to-one link between people displaying neurotic behavior and their risk of developing PTSD. Neurotic behavior is defined as a type of personality behavior in which people experience high degrees of anxiety in response to everyday events, and thus tend to overreact to those ordinary events. That seems to me to be almost a definition of the long-term cultic TMer, at least in my experience. How is *cultivating* this behavioral pattern supposed to help those already victimized by it? I personally suspect that PTSD can be best treated by something that enables its sufferers to be as present in each present moment as possible, with as few trigger points reminding them of the past as possible. If TM worked as it was described in its marketing brochures, it would help to do this. But all one has to do to tell whether the marketing brochures were telling the truth or not is to watch what long-term TMers tend to *focus* on. Is it the present, or the past? I rest my case. We all get impressions from stressful situations. War and battle is particularly stressful. Back in the 1950s people called it shell shock and I had teachers with it. In yoga (i.e. TM) we call these samskaras. They need to be burned out or unstressed. They shouldn't remain in the system or only as at a distant memory. Meditation should be good at doing this and it wouldn't be limited just to TM, of course. TM has no exclusivity over dissolving stress. The best way to deal with this would be to meditate as soon as possible after the stressful event. Neurotic behavior is recognized in ayurveda as vata so some treatments for that imbalance may be useful.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
You know what, I had not thought of it before but you are right, a lot of the markers of PTSD are indications of vata derangement - thank you for suggesting that line of treatment. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD On 01/12/2013 01:30 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. As would I, having done a bit of research on PTSD in the past year. The condition or syndrome known as post-traumatic stress disorder revolves around an inability to get over experiences and impressions from the past, and live in the present, as if these impressions were no longer a ruling factor. Nothing I have seen in my over-46-year-experience with TM suggests to me that it enables people to do this. To the contrary, I find that most long-term TMers are more locked into and ruled by impressions from the past than normal, everyday, non-meditators. Recent research has shown that there is a one-to-one link between people displaying neurotic behavior and their risk of developing PTSD. Neurotic behavior is defined as a type of personality behavior in which people experience high degrees of anxiety in response to everyday events, and thus tend to overreact to those ordinary events. That seems to me to be almost a definition of the long-term cultic TMer, at least in my experience. How is *cultivating* this behavioral pattern supposed to help those already victimized by it? I personally suspect that PTSD can be best treated by something that enables its sufferers to be as present in each present moment as possible, with as few trigger points reminding them of the past as possible. If TM worked as it was described in its marketing brochures, it would help to do this. But all one has to do to tell whether the marketing brochures were telling the truth or not is to watch what long-term TMers tend to *focus* on. Is it the present, or the past? I rest my case. We all get impressions from stressful situations. War and battle is particularly stressful. Back in the 1950s people called it shell shock and I had teachers with it. In yoga (i.e. TM) we call these samskaras. They need to be burned out or unstressed. They shouldn't remain in the system or only as at a distant memory. Meditation should be good at doing this and it wouldn't be limited just to TM, of course. TM has no exclusivity over dissolving stress. The best way to deal with this would be to meditate as soon as possible after the stressful event. Neurotic behavior is recognized in ayurveda as vata so some treatments for that imbalance may be useful.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable scientific research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. How many years will people stop saying Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Hey Michael, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I commend you for your efforts to come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented. In my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention. I can't say that you come across as any kind of authority of what the efficacy of TM would be in this situation, but I would assume that whatever benefits or detriments that would result from the practice of TM for PTSD would be become apparant and based on that, the program would be continued,or expanded or curtailed or discontinued. Why not the results, or non results speak for themselves? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Bottom line, TM simply is not the best meditation for these folks with PTSD.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
And how would be treat someone with a vata imbalance? We ground them. Which also goes along with Turq's thesis of putting them in the now. Meditation is calming so it will help ground them. That is unless they are too high strung to meditate and then some pranayam would help to get them to a calmer state where they could ground. Just do a search on PTSD grounding and see what turns up. ;-) On 01/12/2013 05:04 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: You know what, I had not thought of it before but you are right, a lot of the markers of PTSD are indications of vata derangement - thank you for suggesting that line of treatment. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD On 01/12/2013 01:30 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. As would I, having done a bit of research on PTSD in the past year. The condition or syndrome known as post-traumatic stress disorder revolves around an inability to get over experiences and impressions from the past, and live in the present, as if these impressions were no longer a ruling factor. Nothing I have seen in my over-46-year-experience with TM suggests to me that it enables people to do this. To the contrary, I find that most long-term TMers are more locked into and ruled by impressions from the past than normal, everyday, non-meditators. Recent research has shown that there is a one-to-one link between people displaying neurotic behavior and their risk of developing PTSD. Neurotic behavior is defined as a type of personality behavior in which people experience high degrees of anxiety in response to everyday events, and thus tend to overreact to those ordinary events. That seems to me to be almost a definition of the long-term cultic TMer, at least in my experience. How is *cultivating* this behavioral pattern supposed to help those already victimized by it? I personally suspect that PTSD can be best treated by something that enables its sufferers to be as present in each present moment as possible, with as few trigger points reminding them of the past as possible. If TM worked as it was described in its marketing brochures, it would help to do this. But all one has to do to tell whether the marketing brochures were telling the truth or not is to watch what long-term TMers tend to *focus* on. Is it the present, or the past? I rest my case. We all get impressions from stressful situations. War and battle is particularly stressful. Back in the 1950s people called it shell shock and I had teachers with it. In yoga (i.e. TM) we call these samskaras. They need to be burned out or unstressed. They shouldn't remain in the system or only as at a distant memory. Meditation should be good at doing this and it wouldn't be limited just to TM, of course. TM has no exclusivity over dissolving stress. The best way to deal with this would be to meditate as soon as possible after the stressful event. Neurotic behavior is recognized in ayurveda as vata so some treatments for that imbalance may be useful.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offer only pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment. And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. You laid out your reasons. They appear well thought out. I am sorry if I remain unconvinced. I wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. My position remains the same. Let the results speak for themselves. That appears to be the last thing you want to consider. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable scientific research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. How many years will people stop saying Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I commend you for your efforts to come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented. In my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention. I can't say thatÂ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
This sounds a bit confrontational to me, what do you think, Share? From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offer only pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment. And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. You laid out your reasons. They appear well thought out. I am sorry if I remain unconvinced. I wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. My position remains the same. Let the results speak for themselves. That appears to be the last thing you want to consider. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable scientific research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. How many years will people stop saying Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I commend you for your efforts to come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented. In my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention. I can't say that you come across as any kind of authority of what the efficacy of TM would be in this situation, but I would assume that whatever benefits or detriments that would result from the practice of TM for PTSD would be become apparant and based on that, the program would be continued,or expanded or curtailed or discontinued. Why not the results, or non results speak for themselves?  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Bottom line, TM simply is not the best meditation for these folks with PTSD.
