Re: FarsiWeb Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9

[Behnam]

On 30/9/03 4:30 AM, from the address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], you
wrote:


 
 
 Hello,
 
 It's not redhat or kwrite problem.  Your file is *correct*.
 
 The problem is in windows and ie, and it's cause of your font.  There is
 no glyph for ARABIC KEHEH and ARABIC FARSI YEH if your font, so ie put
 az ? instead.
 
 -- 
 Behnam Esfahbod ..[ http://esfahbod.info | behnam(a)esfahbod.info ]
 
 
 --
 
 Hi Behnam,
 
 Could you elaborate on Farsi Yeh issue?
 From what I see, there is no Farsi keyboard layout (on PC or Mac) that uses
 the real Farsi Yeh (U+06CC) they use either U+0649 the Arabic Alef Maksurah
 (for Mac and some PCs) or U+064A the Arabic Yeh (for some other PCs, with
 chopped off dots in the Arabic glyph in the font!)
 To my knowledge, most Farsi fonts don't have real Farsi Yeh. Some do, but
 it's actually not being used by current Farsi keyboards on either platforms.
 
 Behnam  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 --

 
 Hello,
 
 I don't know such things on Mac OS.
 
 In MS Windows, the default Farsi keyboard has correct FARSI YEH, and
 also other replacment o experimental ones.  But old Microsoft's Fonts have
 problems with FARSI YEH, that it's going to be corrected in new
 versions.
 
 In RedHat Linux, the keyboard and fonts, and other 3th party's fonts like
 Gnome are all correct in this field.
 
 You can use Microsoft Office 2003 and it's updated fonts to see this as
 you like! ;)
 
 -- 
 Behnam Esfahbod ..[ http://esfahbod.info | behnam(a)esfahbod.info ]
 
 
 --
 

 
 On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 18:11, Behnam wrote:
 
 From what I see, there is no Farsi keyboard layout (on PC or Mac) that uses
 the real Farsi Yeh (U+06CC) they use either U+0649 the Arabic Alef Maksurah
 (for Mac and some PCs) or U+064A the Arabic Yeh (for some other PCs, with
 chopped off dots in the Arabic glyph in the font!)
 
 Windows 2000 and Windows XP both use U+06CC in their 'Farsi' keyboard
 layouts. I don't know about current versions of Mac OS (which has a
 keyboard named 'Persian'), but Panther (Mac OS 10.3) will include a
 Persian keyboard layout based on ISIRI 2901:1994.
 
 To my knowledge, most Farsi fonts don't have real Farsi Yeh. Some do, but
 it's actually not being used by current Farsi keyboards on either platforms.
 
 You're somehow right. But this is something that is being fixed
 everywhere, although not quickly.
 
 roozbeh

__

That's a very good news!
I'm a Mac user and I had to design a whole new Farsi keyboard layout to
include real Farsi Yeh (among other things) the current version (Jaguar) is
still using Alef Maksurah.
I also created a keyboard layout conform to ISIRI 2901:1994 based on the
information I could gather on the Internet. I'm glad Panther will take care
of this. But in the meantime, do you know where is the small Alef for
putting on the Final Yeh (in hattaa for example) or Farsi Hamza
(Yeh-e-raabet) that we put on the final Heh in this standard layout? I
couldn't find them anywhere.

 You can use Microsoft Office 2003 and it's updated fonts to see this as
 you like! ;)
 
 -- 
 Behnam Esfahbod ..[ http://esfahbod.info | behnam(a)esfahbod.info ]
 
I'm out of luck here. I have Microsoft Office for Macintosh but it doesn't
support right to left languages, nor Unicode. These things are reserved for
their own platform!

Roozbeh and Behnam, thanks both
Behnam  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: FarsiWeb Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9

[Roozbeh Pournader]

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 16:38, Behnam wrote:
 But in the meantime, do you know where is the small Alef for
 putting on the Final Yeh (in hattaa for example) or Farsi Hamza
 (Yeh-e-raabet) that we put on the final Heh in this standard layout? I
 couldn't find them anywhere.

They are not in ISIRI 2901:1994. But a new version of the national
keyboard standard (due in 1382) will include them, and many other
required characters. See the archives of this list for more information,
including the exact layout.

 I'm out of luck here. I have Microsoft Office for Macintosh but it doesn't
 support right to left languages, nor Unicode. These things are reserved for
 their own platform!

MS Office for Mac is very bad with regard to right to left languages.
OpenOffice 1.1 may be a solution, but it's not integrated with Mac OS
interface good enough.

roozbeh


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Re: FarsiWeb Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9

[C Bobroff]

 On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 16:38, Behnam wrote:
  But in the meantime, do you know where is the small Alef for
  putting on the Final Yeh (in hattaa for example) or Farsi Hamza
  (Yeh-e-raabet) that we put on the final Heh in this standard layout? I
  couldn't find them anywhere.

For future reference, in Unicode parlance, they call these ARABIC LETTER
SUPERSCRIPT ALIF U+0670 and Arabic Hamza Above U+0654.

They are not on the Farsi Keyboard that ships with Win2000 and WinXP
however it is easy enough to map them to the keyboard manually in Word.

If you get Farsiweb's experimental keyboard or Peter Hauer's Keyman
keyboard (search the archives for both), you
will find both characters conveniently located on the keyboard.

The problem as always is the font. For web use, almost everyone is using
the Tahoma font which contains both characters (as well as the Persian Yeh
and the Persian Kaf). Unfortunately, neither character positions very
nicely and you probably won't want to use them when you see what they look
like in action! If for non-web use, well, there are many Persian fonts
around hacked for computer use without the original designer's permission
(becoming a hot topic nowadays!) and you can usually find the heh+hamzeh
hacked to the tah marbuta and as for the alif, I recommend a fine-tipped
felt pen or Photoshop!

There are various other ingenious workarounds, of course.

I don't know what the situation is with Macs where the main problem seems
to stem from  not enough users doing Persian in order to provide feedback
and mutual support.

-Connie
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