Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-14 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Nadim Shaikli wrote:

> --- Behnam Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> > > > > Akka 2.0, may make up a good name.  I too prefer not binding a
> > > > > new name to the same functionality.  Perhaps we would want to
> > > > > give some hints and credit to pre-2.0 Akka.  Roozbeh?
> > > >
> > > > I prefer a name more neutral. Something that is not against the
> > > > nationalism of any Arab or Persian or Hebrew person. Go find some!
> > >
> > > Nadim proposed something along 'beacon', as in 'bicon', as in
> > > 'bidi con{sole,dom}'.  I like both.  'bicon' goes more with
> > > 'fribidi's, but as we converted freebidi to fribidi, we do bicon
> > > to beacon too.  I'm with "beacon" then.  [Roozbeh,Behnam: And we
> > > can call it 'faanoos' :)].
> >
> > Cool..., So we can call it Faanoos Navy (TM)!
>
> Actually Faanoos sounds cool :-)

Actually, "Faanoos" with the same spelling is already taken by me
for a couple of projects ;-).  BTW, is it an Arabic word too?

> My votes would be for (in order of preference),
>
>  Akka 2.0
>  Faanoos   (and not fanoos, read why below)
>  BiCon (or even HetroCon :-)
>  beacon

Based on Google search results, I vote for BiCon too (beacon hits
some 2 million results).  So BiCon, but don't forget that in
filenames it should be written bicon.

Another problem with faanoos is that it's again bounded to
Persian (maybe and Arabic).

> I think it would be a good idea to find a unique name that does
> not produce millions of hits in google at min :-)  This is the
> last I will say about this topic and will leave it to those that
> have worked and will work on the project to decide.

search faanoos in Google and you will be lost in found Persian
pages.

> Salam.
>
>  - Nadim

behdad
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Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-12 Thread Behnam Esfahbod
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
> 
> > Oops. Sent empty last time.
> >
> > > Akka 2.0, may make up a good name.  I too prefer not binding a
> > > new name to the same functionality.  Perhaps we would want to
> > > give some hints and credit to pre-2.0 Akka.  Roozbeh?
> >
> > I prefer a name more neutral. Something that is not against the
> > nationalism of any Arab or Persian or Hebrew person. Go find some!
> 
> Nadim proposed something along 'beacon', as in 'bicon', as in
> 'bidi con{sole,dom}'.  I like both.  'bicon' goes more with
> 'fribidi's, but as we converted freebidi to fribidi, we do bicon
> to beacon too.  I'm with "beacon" then.  [Roozbeh,Behnam: And we
> can call it 'faanoos' :)].
> 

Cool..., So we can call it Faanoos Navy (TM)!

> 
> behdad
> 

-- 
Behnam Esfahbod ..[ http://esfahbod.info | behnam(a)esfahbod.info ]

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Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-12 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
> Nadim proposed something along 'beacon', as in 'bicon', as in
> 'bidi con{sole,dom}'.  I like both.  'bicon' goes more with
> 'fribidi's, but as we converted freebidi to fribidi, we do bicon
> to beacon too.  I'm with "beacon" then.

No objections.

roozbeh

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Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-12 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:

> Oops. Sent empty last time.
>
> > Akka 2.0, may make up a good name.  I too prefer not binding a
> > new name to the same functionality.  Perhaps we would want to
> > give some hints and credit to pre-2.0 Akka.  Roozbeh?
>
> I prefer a name more neutral. Something that is not against the
> nationalism of any Arab or Persian or Hebrew person. Go find some!

Nadim proposed something along 'beacon', as in 'bicon', as in
'bidi con{sole,dom}'.  I like both.  'bicon' goes more with
'fribidi's, but as we converted freebidi to fribidi, we do bicon
to beacon too.  I'm with "beacon" then.  [Roozbeh,Behnam: And we
can call it 'faanoos' :)].

> > Roozbeh's and mine are in LGPL.  (Roozbeh?).
>
> Confirmed. If the license is incompatible with other things, let us know
> so we can fix it.

The font may be GPL.  We surely want to keep library code in
LGPL.  Application stuff can go with GPL or LGPL.

> > Tables may need some update.  Roozbeh?
>
> They may need so. But I can't check that. Anyone interested, please
> check with the latest ArabicJoining.txt file in Unicode data files.

Not me ;-).  Behnam, can you give it a try?  Long time you have
not done these stuff.

> roozbeh

behdad
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Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-12 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
Oops. Sent empty last time.

> Akka 2.0, may make up a good name.  I too prefer not binding a
> new name to the same functionality.  Perhaps we would want to
> give some hints and credit to pre-2.0 Akka.  Roozbeh?

I prefer a name more neutral. Something that is not against the
nationalism of any Arab or Persian or Hebrew person. Go find some!

> Roozbeh's and mine are in LGPL.  (Roozbeh?). 

Confirmed. If the license is incompatible with other things, let us know
so we can fix it.

> Tables may need some update.  Roozbeh?

They may need so. But I can't check that. Anyone interested, please
check with the latest ArabicJoining.txt file in Unicode data files.

roozbeh


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Re: farsi. farsi! farsi? farsi:

2003-12-12 Thread Roozbeh Pournader
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 01:25, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> FARSI.
> Yes.
> ;-)
> 
> Disclaimer 1: This is not a Persian vs Farsi war message.
> Disclaimer 2: CC to FarsiWeb list is just informational.
> Disclaimer 3: The attached code is not in Public Domain.
> Disclaimer 4: This is a long boring message.  Your own risk.
> 
> 
> Two long years ago, is such a day that today is, perhaps in the
> same wee hours in the morning but in Tehran time, I have been
> polishing and wrapping up some piece of code that is has been
> called "farsi" since then.
> 
> The story still goes more back.  Should have been in late 2000
> that Roozbeh Pournader wrote some C code to convert Unicode
> Persian text to some legacy character set called iransystem.  As
> a requirement for that, he wrote the joining code that was later
> used by me in "farsi".
> 
> Late 2001, my major work on FriBidi has been done, so was the
> time to use what I have been doing.  Took Roozbeh's code, cleaned
> up, plugged FriBidi, and it was what you get as farsi/fjoining/.
> I wrote some more code to fill the gap in console to handle
> harakats, and called it farsi/fconsole, and finally grabbed
> source code from script(1), hacked a few lines, and called it
> farsi/fcon.  With the helpf of font tools I borrowed from another
> project and keyboard driver I wrote down, I had finally done my
> pet called "farsi" that was doing me more than Akka was able to
> do (for me as a Persian).
> 
> Since then the code got some clean up and some features added,
> but nothing else changed, even the user base itself that was
> limited to me, myself, and behdad.  The package named "farsi" was
> still waiting for me (and Roozbeh) to resolve the copyright
> status and get released, while I lost my interest in bidi console
> and it wend down into my 10GB archive of last (lost) files.
> 
> Fortunately I did three small releases of the code, first on a
> local list called 'farsidev' that does not exist today anymore
> (and I cannot remember even.  Just wrote it in my ChangeLog in
> the package);  next in a list in Hebrew community, and last in
> ArabEyes.  Seems that the last one is the only one that has been
> survived history.
> 
> This is the history about "farsi" in five paragraphs.  I also
> hacked a Red Hat 7.2 to enable Persian on console.  I later took
> some notes of what I did, and implemented it on another machine
> from my notes.  The notes are in farsiredhat directory in archive
> attached to this mail.  Note that they are pretty old.  Many
> things have changed these days.
> 
> For the past few days I have been known as the most blocker of
> the whole ArabEyes project ;-).  So I first answer the questions
> I was asked about "farsi", and then go through the files in
> attached archive.
> 
> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Behdad for your reply. I would like to know,
> > though, what is the expected timeframe of including
> > joining in fribidi.
> 
> 2005.  No more, no less ;-).
> Seriously, this winter.
> 
> > Another question for all:
> > - do you know any problem that affects using farsi
> > besides bidi before joining and shaping codes, and
> > some may be next stage points like interaction with
> > gpm and ncurses programs?
> 
> In the future, ncurses should implement its own bidi/shaping.
> But before that, both ncurses and gpm need to get some stable
> Unicode support.  I am supposed to have a look at Unicode support
> in ncurses after I'm satisfied with GNOME (FriBidi, Pango, GTK+,
> AbiWord), but most probably it's not before 2005.
> 
> > If there aren't I will base any future work on this
> > code rather than the akka original.
> 
> :D.
> 
> Nadim Shakili wrote:
> >
> > A couple of questions though,
> >
> >  1. Can we take this conversation to Arabeyes' "developer"
> > mailing-list ?  I'm sure we'll want to refer back to
> > all these points in the future.
> 
> Sure.
> 
> >  2. Can we come up with an alternate name to this package.
> > Akka 2.0 (with no mention of the previous work or credits) ?
> > suggestions ?  Behdad, its your baby, so its your call.
> 
> Well, "farsi" is not such a bad name as long as it's used in
> English written text ;-).  Ok, it has proved to be a bad name.
> Perhaps '"farsi"' is a good name, but again in written context.
> BTW, you should not need that word in English; one should always
> use Persian to refer to the language.
> 
> Second, it's the Free World (as in Free Beer) of Free Software
> (as in Freedom) ;-).  Feel Free to Fu^^Hack the code.  (Free as
> in Freedom, not as in Beer.  Don't forget my Beer).
> 
> Akka 2.0, may make up a good name.  I too prefer not binding a
> new name to the same functionality.  Perhaps we would want to
> give some hints and credit to pre-2.0 Akka.  Roozbeh?
> 
> I'm fine with Akka, if on your website and the main README file,
> you write it this way:
> Akka (aka "farsi")
> 
> Another idea comes to my mind, about popping another name.  Just
> take the middle and call i