Re: [fd-dev] DosEmu/Linux (was:Microkernel architecture)
Aitor Santamaria Merino wrote: I am not interested in this project for the moment, sorry. (sorry, I rephrase in case I was not correctly understood: In case my previous sentences could have given the impression that I am interested at this moment, I am not, sorry!) Aitor -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu without FreeDOS
On Wednesday 04 December 2002 10:03, you wrote: Hi all, I want to know can I start another version of DOS than FreeDOS under Dosemu? If answer is yes where I can find documentation on how to do it? Why nobody don't want to help me about this matter? -- Best regards, Mickey [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu without FreeDOS
Hello Miroslav, On Wednesday 04 December 2002 10:03, you wrote: Hi all, I want to know can I start another version of DOS than FreeDOS under Dosemu? If answer is yes where I can find documentation on how to do it? Why nobody don't want to help me about this matter? Have you considered the possibilty that you are asking this question in the wrong mailing list? You should better try to seek contact through either a dosemu-specific mailing list (if it exists, i don't know) or in a dosemu newsgroup on the usenet. The fact that FreeDOS is the choice for the dosemu folks does not mean that a lot of FreeDOS people are familiar with the inner workings of dosemu take care, Ralf -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu without FreeDOS
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Ralf Quint wrote: On Wednesday 04 December 2002 10:03, you wrote: Hi all, I want to know can I start another version of DOS than FreeDOS under Dosemu? If answer is yes where I can find documentation on how to do it? Why nobody don't want to help me about this matter? Have you considered the possibilty that you are asking this question in the wrong mailing list? You should better try to seek contact through either a dosemu-specific mailing list (if it exists, i don't know) or in a dosemu newsgroup on the usenet. The fact that FreeDOS is the choice for the dosemu folks does not mean that a lot of FreeDOS people are familiar with the inner workings of dosemu He got a reply from Eric. In any case the question is like asking Bill Gates how to install DRDOS on my PC -- it's not relevant in this forum indeed. Bart -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
re: [fd-dev] Dosemu without FreeDOS
Hi, you can install MS-DOS or DR-DOS by simply copying it to a drive where Dosemu boots from, it will autodetect the type of kernel and simulate the right bootsector. If this does not work, you need to follow the usual procedure and install the other DOS by using sys - then you need to use a diskimage for the target drive (the simulated A: or C: ...). You can start Dosemu as: xdosemu -C and xdosemu -A to select the boot drive if you have both configured as bootable, like in (from dosemu.conf): $_vbootfloppy = diskimage.bin +hd $_floppy_a =threeinch $_hdimage = freedos fatimage.bin # in ~/dosemu # freedos is a subdirectory of ~/dosemu, which is visible as C:, # while fatimage.bin is the image of another harddisk visible as D: For extra coolness you can use MetaKern to have a boot menu that allows you to select - which partition to boot - which of two DOSes on the current disk to boot - which disk, A: or C: to boot Installation is nonautomatic, so search the FreeDOS homepage for more details on how to use it, or read the readme in there :-). It is somewhere on: http://www.coli.uni-sb.de/~eric/stuff/soft/ it will probably NOT work for directories simulating drives, but it DOES work for me when I install it on diskimage.bin (all choices, including boot from C:, work - but as C: has no partitions and the partition menu is only active when MetaKern is installed on C:, you cannot select WHICH partition of C: you want to boot ;-)). So I either boot xdosemu (1.1.3.7) with -C option for FreeDOS or with -A for the menu (but I only have FreeDOS in different versions, so probably the menu is not THAT useful for me ;)). Eric. -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu 1.1.3.7 big fat cool USER FONT patch (alpha version)
On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 01:05:56AM +0100, Eric Auer wrote: Hi, after hours and hours of work, my XDOSEMU (http://www.dosemu.org/ or use the more real http://dosemu.sourceforge.net/ instead) now finally understands LOADABLE FONTS (int 0x10 API - not yet via video RAM). Check out several examples in fontfx.zip. I can also recommend Andreas Foersters (maybe http://akfoerster.de/ ) CAPS.COM. It is kind of exepacked because Andreas wants to keep the source private Nope, just nobody asked for the source. The source of the whole project is VERY chaotic, that's why I didn't dare to realease it. Originally it wasn't meant to be free in any sense at all. And I just packed it for Eric, because I sent it via email. I haven't expected, that he tries to disassemble it. But now I sent him a copy of that part of the code. http://akfoerster.de/download/dos/zdef2b.zip This is the binary package, but there's some source code, so you can write your own programs with it in Turbo Pascal. (sorry, doesn't work in FreePascal or GNU Pascal yet) (sorry Andreas for stealing your ZECHO idea for my ZECHO2 - but hey, it is only 40 lines of assembly...), It's okay, I didn't want to hide it, it just doesn't make too much sense without the rest of my tools. You should at least have asked. [CAPS.COM] It creates a mixed normal / smaller Font that makes text look like written in small caps :-). That is just a sample file for my program ZDEF. FYI. I just read the fonts from the graphic card and mixed up the 8x16 font with the 8x8 font. By the way, I was thinking about Wine and Win4Lin: How about a Lin4Win? You would loose lots of stability, but I think something like UML (User Mode Linux, like linux.exe to run in Linux) could be ported to Windows. Would be funny, kind of LinuxEmu, as counterpart for DosEmu. I recommend adjusting many drivers of Linux and not to simulate any hardware. Just a crazy idea that I had the other night, dunno if it will be useful for anything. I do not have Windows anyway (but Lemmings for Windows runs better in Wine/Linux than Lemmings for DOS does run in XDosemu/FreeDOS...). PLEASE NOT! We want the Windows users to change to free systems, not to make the free systems depending on unfree ones! If Windows users get to know a Linux wich runs under Windows, they will miss some most important aspects: stabillity and freedom (and the features as server and ...). And they won't see what they're missing! They just will say, yes nice, but not so much better. So why should I change?. But if you really want, you already can run Linux under Windows: with a Pc-emulator like VMware for example. If you want just a simple Unix, which can be run from Windows or Dos, have a look at Minix - but don't expect too much. The limitations of Minix were the reason for Linus Torvalds to write a new system. ;-) And Minix wasn't free in those days, but iirc today it is. http://www.minix.org (Minix also runs on old 8088 machines) P.S.: Hey Eric, don't you have no other job? -- Tschuess Andreas -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu
On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 11:34:17PM -0500, George Bell wrote: You do not need WAITASEC to scroll back in Linux: You have hotkeys for that already enabled by default. Which hotkeys? I'd like to know about that. Shift + PageUp or PageDown -- Tschuess Andreas -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu
Hello! El vie, 22-11-2002 a las 18:16, Alain escribió: ... Yes I also belive that should be an easy interface. Has anyone heard of a DOSISH program that implement dos command in a linux system? Alain ... Lsh is a shell partially inspired by some command interpreters for PC monitors (such as 4-DOS, DR-DOS, MS-DOS, N-DOS, PC-DOS, Q-DOS and others, which might be trademarks of their owners and which is hereby acknowledged). However, most of the features of this shell are simply adapted from Unix (which also happens to be a trademark) shells. . Lsh is especially useful for users who have had some DOS experience and are now supposed to do something under UNIX. This shell will ease the transition and make the usage of dialup services extremely easy for them. . Note that this has nothing to do with the lsh Secure Shell v2 (SSH2) protocol implementation. If you need that SSH2 client, install lsh-client and see the lshc command. . upstream webpage: http://people.cs.uct.ac.za/~mwelz/lsh.html (copied from apt-cache show lsh on debian) Best Regards, Jorge-León -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu - X windows
Hi All, It's probably just a matter of time before there is a Linux compatible X server for DOS. With the sources available and with the GPL someone just has to get the spark and a little time :)) I assume that a 'basic' Xwindow server is relatively simple? At least I recall someone writing that somewhere? Someone on this list has to know ;-) It would be nice to just turn on a FreeDOS box and have X come up, ready to go. You could make some nifty networked DOS picture frames out of old computers :) Turn them on and the slide show begins. You could even add sound :) warm regards, john On 22 Nov 2002, Paul Berger wrote: On Mon, 1999-11-22 at 16:59, John M Harrison wrote: I think an X windows server for freedos would be a great addition to the FreeDOS suite. Most cool. It could be small. It could use fonts from the remote server. The best of both worlds. As far as I know there are no DOS Xservers other than possibly desqview/x. There is dosvnc that allows you to access a remote GUI session on server. I have played with it a bit to access a Linux box and Windows systems across a network. Paul -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu
Hi again, well... multiuser does not hurt if you use it singleuser. Even newer Windows got the point that it is good not to use Word or Outlook as root. Again, you can work as root all the time if you want to. Some distros give you the possibility to log you in as favourite user at bootup and without password. You can use something less funky than Gnome/KDE (e.g. fvwm2) to save time. Finally, you can try one of those Linuxes (e.g. Knoppix) that run entirely from CD-ROM (plus a RAMDISK). You can hit the power button at any time with them. Would be possible to tweak a normal Linux to have most mounts readonly to get a similar effect. My trouble with DOS is that I got used to being able to run more than one app at a time. So I use DOS windows in Linux, not plain DOS, unless I have to. And for surfing / mailing, I use plain Linux, no DOS apps, of course. MS DOS came from CP/M and Unix, but first, all advanced features like multiuser and even subdirectories got stripped. Some came back. Multiuser did never come back in DOS, but in some Windows versions. Nobody forces you to compile your whole day away with Linux, you can just as well stick with the many 100s of apps that are on the CD in precompiled and mostly even preconfigured packages. The thing is that Linux allows you to make things run that are not packaged for you. With Windows, you would first have to buy all kinds of compilers (or use open source ones, of course), same for MS DOS. By the way, many Linux people at comdex do think that Linux has all you need for the desktop, not only for servers. And it had most of it for years. What do you miss in Linux what DOS has? Sure, there are lots of Windows programs, some of which have no native Linux version (so you need to run them in Win), but are there actually some DOS programs still around that lack a Linux counterpart? The thing that I like about DOS is that everything is direct and simple. Nothing prevents it from crashing, but when it does, it reboots in seconds. You can easily patch the kernel at runtime, and some drivers make a habit out of that. You can access all hardware directly. You can run it with less than 1 MB RAM and do not even need a 386 (32bit) or 486DX (with floating point) CPU, so it is nice for very old hardware and embedded systems. Given a few 100 MB of harddisk and 16 MB of RAM, I usually prefer Linux (running Linux on 4/8/12 MB RAM is very hard!). But even on my system, I sometimes boot plain DOS. Because some of my old games want that direct hardware access. And because full PC simulations like Bochs or VMware are far too slow on my oldish PC. Eric -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
... re: [fd-dev] Dosemu - getting online
Hi, this WAS a problem. I remember that 8 years ago, configuring a modem for Linux was hard. Now even DSL is just a few clicks away with the right distro, maybe even easier than with Windows. On the other hand, I was asked to attach a Windows 3 Pc to a LAN and could not figure it out during a whole week or so. I have downloaded some DOS packet drivers and got some ideas on where to plug them and how to connect them to Windows, but I never got it to work. So the PC went to waste, as far as I remember. I know that it is possible to be online and even run a server with DOS, but I would not actually call it easy. Eric -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu
Windoz, and to a lesser, but significant extent, Linux, shows that it is easier to add features than it is to squash bugs. Multiuser would not hurt were this not so; but part of the reliability of dos is that you do only have one thing running, and if it crashes, you have a much better idea of where to look. Given DTR speeds of 10 to 100meg/sec and that few dos apps run even 1 meg, You can load/unload dos apps faster than a multitasking gui can open and close background 'running' apps. but of course, it mostly depends on what you want to do. If it is read and type like now in ascii doing email, dos is faster. But if you need to work with multimedia, by all means use Linux. However, I think that the global market in single user text apps is sufficient to support dos. If you are working with text, why would you not want the typicaly 98% of screen area instead of the small windows which gui offers? Were Freedos to offer a text mode ansi color scrollbar email tool and a fully functional graphic surf tool to display webpages like Mozilla, it would be much more than a small niche market. Especially given the ongoing threat of sabotage software from the online interface.I am hardput to think of anything out there that does not rely on the background of a multitasking os to wreak havoc. Altho, as it is, running Linux Mozilla online, and then having my personal text work on a dos drive is an even more robust kind of firewall that I cannot fathom how it could be breached. BUt, if we want to see the net more available to the vast masses of poor people, a simple dos based surf tool would run better on the kind of limited hardware and electric power peasants would be able to get. The statline ansi color pulldown scrollbar menu system of dos text editors like DEXTER, (DR.EXE) is much more developed than anything I've seen in Linux; the text mode editors still think I have a mono monitor, and the gui ones lack even more of the functionality. I've not been able to find any Linux tool which will split the screen vertically, and make changing panels like you can with MC (linux file mgr) or DR.EXE. But Dexter is not an office WYSIWYG tool for putting out memos or letters in a zillion fonts. But if you want to work with long texts or source code, it is gonzo faster on limited hardware. I've not seen any file manager with all the functionality of Directory Wizard (DW.EXE), but then again, most Linux users dont move files around nearly as much as I do, or bother copying critical data to a dos drive. MC gives you that one statline with F1 thru F10 options. DW gives you that series, but also two more menus opened up with the ctrl alt keys and an 'Fx'. And lets you install macros or hotkey for other uses. Given a much more complex file tree and much more hanging on it, it is no wonder that 'FIND filename' in Linux takes forever compared to FF.EXE in dos, which is prolly on a much smaller drive. I dont really know what most users do with, or want from, their computers; I only hear from the people who have trouble. But one thing I think we'd all agree with, is that they'd have less of it if they werent running windoz. I expect that most of them will figure this out in a few more years, and whenever new systems get installed or sold, it will be Linux with perhaps a dos partition in case of trouble. Hardware support people would have a much easier time if the user could logon in dos and provide the readouts on the status of the system independant of any problems the operating system might have. I see that increasingly, systems are left on all the time; I also see that there are memory management problems which arise out of the multi-tasking in which apps, even when closed, dont give back all the dram they've been using. You can avoid that problem with dos. Even when the app is not coded properly, you can use pc-mag's MARK.COM RELEASE.COM to tag memory, and dump anything, no matter what it is, or why it it is there. hmmm.. does the Linux terminal have anything like WAITASEC.COM? and why didnt they set it up so you could hit the 'print screen' button during boot to get a hardcopy of error messages? One last thing dos will be around for is the same reason you can still buy black and white camera film. I recently saw the 'BB.EXE' text mode demo, a fine example of ASCII art, a tradition going all the way back to line printers. People routinely see the Linux penguin during boot in ANSI color, and there are many other expressions of this tradition which will be around forever. Few people who saw the movie, 'The Matrix' knew that the falling green letters on a computer screen was what many of us, who first started working with text on screen saw... when it crashed. Dos is, like Film Noir, oil paint, or clay, an artistic medium. It is the main reason I sub here, to get tipped off to tools that I might use in my own artistic endeavors in the medium. -- list
Re: [fd-dev] Dosemu
Eric Auer wrote: Hi, well, you really ARE a pessimist. Au Contraire, I think some distro programmers will figure it out, and realize that: Linux comes from Unix, which is a multi-user networked operating system. As such it sux for the single user desktop. I dont think it would be that big a deal to design a distro for the single user, and some have made some modifications to that end, but.. they've got a long ways to go before reaching the convenience of dos, which was always built for the single user, and tweaked over the years for that purpose. Some Linux lovers have told me how to change the boot so it comes right up to my personal xwin kde, or do, as you have suggest ways to install software or whatever, but I dont do windoz, and I sure as shit dont build them. Start talking about building kernels and makefiles and compiling binaries to most people who just want to sit and do email, and their eyes glaze over looking out the window and thinking they awta go outside. If Nettamer would do my email anymore, I'd be using it; writing ascii in a gui screen is fundamentaly oxymoronic. But my new local ISP will not log me in with any of the dos ppp drivers, and I have other things to do besides debug that problem. There must be someone who knows more about it. But in both cases, dos and linux, I look at the computer skill of most users, and dont see reasonable solutions. For example, you dont turn off net servers. But I dont like the idea of my computer in my quiet rural home running all the damn time. As people realize that they can telecommute from the boondocks, this will become a more obvious problem, you can hear the damn blowers in the kitchen while you get another cuppa java. So, with dos, I close the app, and hit the power button. [that's a period] I find it a p*** in the a** to havta go thru so many clicks to close the browser, kde, and wait for the shutdown to close all the open files [which are there for a network which does not exist]. I'm not ragging on Linux, cause it is a great operating system for sysads, networks, and servers. But the newbie so commonly sees the message to 'consult with your system administrator', that he knows he will be scrod if he tries to fix the problem himself. The only 'system administrator' I have is behind my navel. FWI: SCROD- pluperfect subjunctive case. -- list options/archives/etc.: http://www.topica.com/lists/fd-dev unsubscribe: send blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==^ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Rv5.bbRv4l.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
