Re: GTK2 Roundabout
Il giorno Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:23:27 + Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: * Máirín Duffy (2006-12-20 02:17 -0500) said: May I ask why? It shouldn't be based on looks since Clearlooks can achieve the same effects... I just checked its cvs repository, looks like it is getting some attention these days. Take the vertical scroll bar for example: For a long time, all clearlooks based gtk2 themes have the same vertical scroll bar (that's in FC4). Then it became capable of changing color (as in FC5). My feeling is that Clearlooks is a dated slow inflexible theme engine. OpenSUSE Ubuntu and Mandrake, none of them are using it. Now there is a better alternative, I see no reason not to change. The best theme package is from RH8¹ for its unique gtk metacity and icon themes. Even today, there are still many upstream screenshots one can instantly recognizes that they are taken in RH/Fedora Linux. And I think this is a great marketing opportunity. But for the past 4 years, no significant change has been made to Fedora's theme and you can see more and more screenshots are taken on those distributions that do take the trouble to get a consistent and pretty look. On the technical comparison of clearlooks and Murrine, Cimi, could you show us the merits of Murrine? Footnotes: ¹ http://itpro.no/omtaler.php?op=Programvareid=158 Sure, i can explain the good things of the two engines. Good points of Murrine: 1) Best look for a cairo engine, people love Murrine rather than other engines and install it for this reason (this is what people think, see votes on www.gnomelook.org and polls on ubuntuforums, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291636, where murrine is placed on 42% and ubuntulooks and clearlooks at only 21%) 2) Huge amount of colorschemes (aka Themes) available on gnomelook.org. At this moment in just 5 months it has taken more Themes than clearlooks took for two years. 3) With Cairo rendering library performance has slowdown every engine (due to gradients and curves). Murrine is capable to reach nearly the same speed of old engines with the big quality of cairo rendering. At default is about 30% faster than clearlooks and ubuntulooks. This is due to the new design of buttons that don't need to have gradients to be really cool. 4) Wonderful capabilities in customization. It supports a lot of options (that with 0.40 release expected on Christmas day will be a lot more... prepare to another BIG release) that makes able the user to completely change the look of a Theme following his tastes just changing few things. Murrine Configurator, http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php is a simple GUI that every user (and every newbie!!!) can use to configure every theme with just few clicks. 5) Support of dark themes. Actually Murrine is the only engine supporting of dark themes without making ugliness in rendering (try to set dark colors on clearlooks-cairo or ubuntulooks... and see white lines almost everywhere). Good points of Clearlooks: 1) Official Support of gnome bugzilla, so general bugs (so not clearlooks-only related) are fixed before on it. Btw i'm a lot of time in #gnome-art IRC channel so all important bugs were fixed in murrine too. Murrine needs a bugzilla, I guess. 2) Clearlooks has a public cvs while murrine has more (stable) releases. Murrine needs a cvs, I guess. From previous 2 points we can guess a 3rd one, even though it could be the 6th good point of murrine: Clearlooks development lacks of good designers, and founders/creators aren't developing till an year (it was abandoned from them). For this moment Clearlooks is developed by a friend of mine, Benzea (who I greet, hi benzea!!!) who is very very good in coding and fixing bugs, but he hasn't done so much in improving look in the last year... Despite I'm very very good in design and improving the look of Murrine (many paople say Murrine is the best theme compared with every OS, Mac and Microsoft included) but not good as benzea in bug-fixing. So for this reason I suggested Murrine as the new engine. Linux needs great themes in the desktop experience and Murrine is the best starting point, since with redhat bugzilla Murrine may reach the same Good points of clearlooks. This is my opinion and i've tried to be neutral to hilight the good points of every engine. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: GTK2 Roundabout
Il giorno Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:23:27 + Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: * Máirín Duffy (2006-12-20 02:17 -0500) said: May I ask why? It shouldn't be based on looks since Clearlooks can achieve the same effects... I just checked its cvs repository, looks like it is getting some attention these days. Take the vertical scroll bar for example: For a long time, all clearlooks based gtk2 themes have the same vertical scroll bar (that's in FC4). Then it became capable of changing color (as in FC5). My feeling is that Clearlooks is a dated slow inflexible theme engine. OpenSUSE Ubuntu and Mandrake, none of them are using it. Now there is a better alternative, I see no reason not to change. The best theme package is from RH8¹ for its unique gtk metacity and icon themes. Even today, there are still many upstream screenshots one can instantly recognizes that they are taken in RH/Fedora Linux. And I think this is a great marketing opportunity. But for the past 4 years, no significant change has been made to Fedora's theme and you can see more and more screenshots are taken on those distributions that do take the trouble to get a consistent and pretty look. On the technical comparison of clearlooks and Murrine, Cimi, could you show us the merits of Murrine? Footnotes: ¹ http://itpro.no/omtaler.php?op=Programvareid=158 Sure, i can explain the good things of the two engines. Good points of Murrine: 1) Best look for a cairo engine, people love Murrine rather than other engines and install it for this reason (this is what people think, see votes on www.gnomelook.org and polls on ubuntuforums, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291636, where murrine is placed on 42% and ubuntulooks and clearlooks at only 21%) 2) Huge amount of colorschemes (aka Themes) available on gnomelook.org. At this moment in just 5 months it has taken more Themes than clearlooks took for two years. 3) With Cairo rendering library performance has slowdown every engine (due to gradients and curves). Murrine is capable to reach nearly the same speed of old engines with the big quality of cairo rendering. At default is about 30% faster than clearlooks and ubuntulooks. This is due to the new design of buttons that don't need to have gradients to be really cool. 4) Wonderful capabilities in customization. It supports a lot of options (that with 0.40 release expected on Christmas day will be a lot more... prepare to another BIG release) that makes able the user to completely change the look of a Theme following his tastes just changing few things. Murrine Configurator, http://cimi.netsons.org/pages/murrine/configurator.php is a simple GUI that every user (and every newbie!!!) can use to configure every theme with just few clicks. 5) Support of dark themes. Actually Murrine is the only engine supporting of dark themes without making ugliness in rendering (try to set dark colors on clearlooks-cairo or ubuntulooks... and see white lines almost everywhere). Good points of Clearlooks: 1) Official Support of gnome bugzilla, so general bugs (so not clearlooks-only related) are fixed before on it. Btw i'm a lot of time in #gnome-art IRC channel so all important bugs were fixed in murrine too. Murrine needs a bugzilla, I guess. 2) Clearlooks has a public cvs while murrine has more (stable) releases. Murrine needs a cvs, I guess. From previous 2 points we can guess a 3rd one, even though it could be the 6th good point of murrine: Clearlooks development lacks of good designers, and founders/creators aren't developing till an year (it was abandoned from them). For this moment Clearlooks is developed by a friend of mine, Benzea (who I greet, hi benzea!!!) who is very very good in coding and fixing bugs, but he hasn't done so much in improving look in the last year... Despite I'm very very good in design and improving the look of Murrine (many paople say Murrine is the best theme compared with every OS, Mac and Microsoft included) but not good as benzea in bug-fixing. So for this reason I suggested Murrine as the new engine. Linux needs great themes in the desktop experience and Murrine is the best starting point, since with redhat bugzilla Murrine may reach the same Good points of clearlooks. This is my opinion and i've tried to be neutral to hilight the good points of every engine. -- Cimi - Andrea Cimitan http://cimi.netsons.org ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [FC7 theme proposal] Flying High with Fedora 7 - Round 2
* Máirín Duffy (2006-12-20 12:58 -0500) said: [...] How do OOo, Gimp, and Eclipse splash screens provide the best user experience possible...? They don't. They provide a fuller 'brand experience' for sure, but that's different from 'user experience' (former benefits us more than it would users.) The best user experience possible is applications loading up so quickly you don't need a splash screen to provide feedback that yes, the application is loading. But not much we can do to improve their startup time at this time. So a splash screen will be in those apps for Fedora 7. I would remind everyone many of the other distro's (Ubuntu/openSuSE/Zenwalk/Vector/and the list goes on) have decided to theme the splash screens of Open Office and Gimp. I do not know how they came to that decision but I believe they simply want to provide the best user experience possible. We need to be a leader, not a follower. Just because others are doing something doesn't mean it's a good idea. I like this attitude :) Some of those distros have reached nearly complete theme across the Desktop and the splash screen might as well make it more complete. We are not in this stage though. -- Leo sdl.web AT gmail.com (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [FC7 theme proposal] Flying High with Fedora 7 - Round 2 Preview
Hi John, John Baer wrote: Máirín Diana, You *can* address the whole list - this is a community project as is Fedora. :) I would like to get feedback on this theme from the forum. To that end I prepared a Preview wiki page to be used as a link. Do you mean FedoraForum? They already set up a poll for the round 1 themes on there so you could probably start a new topic on your round 2 work and provide the link. ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
[Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of Artwork/ReleaseGraphics by DianaFong]
May I ask *why* we now have two pages for essentially the same thing? I was under the impression that the second page was created as a draft to merge so I took the time to merge the two since they had a lot of redundant information. Now there's two pages again. I just don't understand. ~m Original Message Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of Artwork/ReleaseGraphics by DianaFong Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:55:59 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Wiki user, You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on Fedora Project Wiki for change notification. The following page has been changed by DianaFong: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ReleaseGraphics -- + ## page was renamed from Artwork/ThemingOverviewInProgress [:Artwork: Artwork] [:Artwork/ThemingOverview: ThemingOverview] - This page has been merged with [:Artwork/ThemingOverview: ThemingOverview]. + [[TableOfContents]] + = Fedora Release Graphics = + + There are many components in Fedora, whose visual elements can be changed...thus is the power of Open Source software. With this, an entire distribution can be unified by creating a common theme across the various customizable screens. The following is a list of components + (in general order) that goes into re-theming a distribution. Also included are screenshots of Fedora Core 5 and 6 to illustrate the possible changes as well as to show Fedora Core's visual progression. + [[BR]][[BR]] + If you've got great design ideas but are not technically-inclined, or would like to learn how to code your own themes but need help...upload your mockups to [:Artwork/ThemeConcepts: ThemeConcepts] and post a link to [http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list fedora-art-list], to get started. + [[BR]][[BR]] + These are the notes and specifications I've accumulated from having completed 4-5 release designs. I realize that some of the info posted here might not agree with some specs but this is what I've found to work. If you find serious discrepancies or have questions, contact me or post to [http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list fedora-art-list]. [DianaFong] + + == Anaconda Prompt Screen == + ||^ |6 [[ImageLink(01Syslinux.png)]] ||^ style=color: #636363; Description: || Splash screen used at the boot prompt with syslinux/isolinux. This gets transformed into the syslinux specific format. || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;File Name + Extension: || same image, two locations: [[BR]]/usr/lib/anaconda-runtime/boot/syslinux-splash.png and [[BR]]/usr/share/anaconda/pixmaps/syslinux-splash.png || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;Package: || fedora-logos / redhat-logos || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;Size: || 640x300 pixels || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;Colors: || 16 color palette (should be an indexed .png with #00, #ff, #cdcfd5, #5b6c93, and #c9 in your palette). || + ||-2 FC5: [[ImageLink(01fc5.png,width=120,height=90)]] FC6: [[ImageLink(01fc6.png,width=120,height=90)]] || + ||-3 '''Testing Notes:''' The final file format of this graphic is 'lss'. To test it out there are programs available such as ppmtolss that will let you convert this image to lss to try it out (of course to use that you'd have to convert to ppm first. :) ) Once you have converted it to lss, create an installation CD, putting your newly-created lss file in the /isolinux directory, naming it 'splash.lss'. --[MairinDuffy] || + + == Anaconda Screen - Splash == + ||^ |11 [[ImageLink(02AnacondaSplash.png)]] ||^ style=color: #636363; Description: || This is the the splash component to the Installation Wizard. It is comprised of two pieces of artwork...the header [1] and the center image [2]. || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;[1] File Name + Extension: || usr/share/anaconda/pixmaps/anaconda_header.png || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;[1] Package: || fedora-logos / redhat-logos || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;[1] Size: || 800x88 pixels || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #EBEBEB;[1] Colors: || No color limitations. || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #D7D7D7;[2] File Name + Extension: || usr/share/anaconda/pixmaps/splash.png || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #D7D7D7;[2] Package: || fedora-logos / redhat-logos || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #D7D7D7;[2] Size: || The current graphic is 507x388 pixels. This image has some flexibility to vary in size. || + ||^ style=color: #636363; rowstyle=background-color: #D7D7D7;[2] Colors: || No color limitations. || + ||^ '''NOTE:''' || Image01
Re: Fedora 7 Art Plan (was Art Team FC7 Progress So Far - Community Feedback)
Hello Diana, Diana Fong wrote: John Baer wrote: Can you give us some guidance as to where we are in the process? Do you want to open our work up for suggestions by posting an entry in the forum? Hello John, et al. As this seems to be the current Fedora 7 schedule [1]. I'd like for the graphics to be mostly completed by February 12th, in time for Test2. That's good, since that's the deadline *I* set two weeks ago. This will give David Zeuthen and others enough time to integrate the graphics. Mostly completed means that there is: 1) a set look and 2) coverage of all the pieces indicated on the ReleaseGraphics [3] wiki in that style. Of course, minor polish can be accepted until Test3. So how do we get there? The FlyingHigh theme [2] proposed by John Baer has the greatest potential and interest. Time is short and there is still more exploration I would like to see within the theme so I'm declaring this the official theme for Fedora 7. Under what authority? ~m ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora 7 Art Plan (was Art Team FC7 Progress So Far - Community Feedback)
David Zeuthen wrote: On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 23:39 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote: (So.. it's a bit ironic you just said in the other mail just earlier this evening this is a community project! and now refer to a deadline *you* set... Well, Mairin proposed a plan for Round 2, *I* asked for a deadline, Mairin said a date and nobody objected. It sounds like a community process to me... If you ask me, I think what is needed is an individual, a benevolent dictator if you like, that sets the direction and facilitates community contributions. There's an expression along the lines of too many cooks ruin the meal [1] and I think especially for visuals it's very true. If you look at John's mail I think it echoes this need too... a need for a project maintainer / coordinator. Under what authority? It seems to me somewhat that you're turning this into a fight over power and who gets to call the shots. Most projects in our Fedora universe have maintainers and leaders; why is it any different for artwork and why should it be a problem? Please refer to this Fedora board meeting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-11-20?action=AttachFiledo=gettarget=fedora-board-20061120.txt Quote: [Mon Nov 20 2006] [12:06:58] mspevack topic 1 -- art. Leadership needs to be defined [Mon Nov 20 2006] [12:07:06] mspevack clearly the two largest leaders have been Maureen Duffy and Diana Fong [Mon Nov 20 2006] [12:07:37] mspevack there was a conversation last week with Diana in which she offered to put together some policy and structure around the use of people who are doing mockups, ideas, etc. of the Fedora Mark. [Mon Nov 20 2006] [12:08:09] warren mspevack, I recall Maureen did quite a bit of work related to that in the past. was she in the discussion? [Mon Nov 20 2006] [12:08:42] mspevack What the Board wants to do is identify one person who can be the clear leader of the art project. Max will talk with Maureen and Diana both, make sure they are on the same page, see who wants to do what, etc. So yes, everyone agrees about Fedora Art needing leadership but AFAIK there was no resolution yet. Or it was decided and we, the one who should be lead were not informed about it... p.s. : somewhat off-topic.. however a bit on-topic for this.. it's interesting to look at other distributions, for example did you see what happened to Ubuntu's artwork during their last release? Or it could be the other way: contributors unhappy with the leadership starting to pursue different venues for the time being. Note: my position should not be read as being against the FlyingHigh theme. -- nicu Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
