Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-30 Thread Kevin Kofler
Rogue roguexz at gmail.com writes:
 Jakub, you are comparing how the widget looks in Firefox 3 alone. What
 about other browsers? What if the native widgets in those other browsers
 look terrible?

The main 2 browser engines in Fedora are:
* Gecko - for everything using this, the widgets will look just as in Firefox 3 
(from Fedora 9 on),
* KHTML (Konqueror) - ignores the widget styling entirely, so it's actually 
already displaying a native widget,
so what browsers exactly are you worrying about?

Also, I don't think the native widget can look worse than a simple 
rectangle. ;-)

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-28 Thread Rogue
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:
 Firefox3 provides beautiful native GTK widgets, so we shouldn't provide
 CSS for them.
 

The idea of CSS styling of the widgets is to ensure that the widgets
look the same across different browsers.

Jakub, you are comparing how the widget looks in Firefox 3 alone. What
about other browsers? What if the native widgets in those other browsers
look terrible?

I would suggest that the overall CSS of FPO could be overhauled as part
of the F9 release?

Any thoughts on this one?

later,
Rogue
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-26 Thread Martin Sourada

On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 01:38 +0100, Michael Beckwith wrote:
 Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? 
 I don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. 
 Just for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for 
 both native widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what 
 I was asking for. Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one 
 out like I asked, I'd be happy to click.
 

Personally I think he meant the google.com page itself as an example
with the right widgets. So to show you the differences:
this[ff-old.png] is start.fp.o in F8's epiphany, this[ff-native] is
start.fp.o in FF3 and this[ff-fpo] is fp.o. I guess you see the
difference on first sight ;)

Martin
attachment: ff-old.pngattachment: ff-native.pngattachment: ff-fpo.png

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-26 Thread Michael Beckwith
I'm apparently blind, you're unclear with what you say. From a personal 
standpoint, when someone lists some terms with any reference to google, 
they mean to do searching, not look at the buttons on the page. Should 
have clarified.

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

You're blind... Google.com has native widgets!

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 18:38 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  

Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? I
don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. Just
for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for both native
widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what I was asking
for. Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one out like I asked,
I'd be happy to click.
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For the sake of arguement of why I was, perhaps, not the best person to 
try arguing the point, I attached what I see with most form buttons, 
including google.com. It takes on the colors of my gnome theme overall,  
using 2.0.0.10 build of FF





Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 01:38 +0100, Michael Beckwith wrote:
  
Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? 
I don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. 
Just for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for 
both native widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what 
I was asking for. Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one 
out like I asked, I'd be happy to click.





Personally I think he meant the google.com page itself as an example
with the right widgets. So to show you the differences:
this[ff-old.png] is start.fp.o in F8's epiphany, this[ff-native] is
start.fp.o in FF3 and this[ff-fpo] is fp.o. I guess you see the
difference on first sight ;)

Martin



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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-26 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
Well, Firefox != 3 sucks a little bit.

Dnia 26-12-2007, śro o godzinie 12:47 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
 I'm apparently blind, you're unclear with what you say. From a
 personal standpoint, when someone lists some terms with any reference
 to google, they mean to do searching, not look at the buttons on the
 page. Should have clarified.
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
  You're blind... Google.com has native widgets!
  
  Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 18:38 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:

   Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? I
   don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. Just
   for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for both native
   widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what I was asking
   for. Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one out like I asked,
   I'd be happy to click.
   -- 
   
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 For the sake of arguement of why I was, perhaps, not the best person
 to try arguing the point, I attached what I see with most form
 buttons, including google.com. It takes on the colors of my gnome
 theme overall,  using 2.0.0.10 build of FF
 
 
 
 
 Martin Sourada wrote: 
  On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 01:38 +0100, Michael Beckwith wrote:

   Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? 
   I don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. 
   Just for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for 
   both native widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what 
   I was asking for. Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one 
   out like I asked, I'd be happy to click.
   
   
  
  Personally I think he meant the google.com page itself as an example
  with the right widgets. So to show you the differences:
  this[ff-old.png] is start.fp.o in F8's epiphany, this[ff-native] is
  start.fp.o in FF3 and this[ff-fpo] is fp.o. I guess you see the
  difference on first sight ;)
  
  Martin
 
 
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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
(rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).

Dnia 24-12-2007, pon o godzinie 23:53 +, Kevin Kofler pisze:
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek jakub.rusinek at gmail.com writes:
  Konqueror doesn't support styled forms.
 
 And I'd say that's a good thing, for the exact reason you describe. I haven't 
 tried the KDE 4 version yet though, they might have fixed it.
 
 Kevin Kofler
 
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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Michael Beckwith
Well, you can do the appealing to the people that be that dictate the 
default appearance of any sort of basic form appearance for forms. It's 
nothing that the art or the website team have anything to do with. Until 
you can appeal to the people that set this, you can either use a browser 
that supports styled forms, or put up with it.


On a personal note, I am not really all that bothered by whatever form 
widgets are on  fedoraproject.org root url. Only one I see is the one to 
switch the language, which is small enough and out of the way enough to 
not worry about personally.


Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
(rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).

Dnia 24-12-2007, pon o godzinie 23:53 +, Kevin Kofler pisze:
  

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek jakub.rusinek at gmail.com writes:


Konqueror doesn't support styled forms.
  
And I'd say that's a good thing, for the exact reason you describe. I haven't 
tried the KDE 4 version yet though, they might have fixed it.


Kevin Kofler

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Michael Beckwith
I see nothing wrong with styling it for those who have support for it. 
It's a web accessability thing. Ability to style it and see a nice 
looking form, or if your browser doesn't support it, then it still gets 
form controls with the universal default which still allows it to be 
useable. If your complaint is that the styled version is 90ish with a 
square appearance, then I will reconsider my arguements.


Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

Exactly that widgets should not be styled.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:06 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  

Well, you can do the appealing to the people that be that dictate the
default appearance of any sort of basic form appearance for forms.
It's nothing that the art or the website team have anything to do
with. Until you can appeal to the people that set this, you can either
use a browser that supports styled forms, or put up with it.

On a personal note, I am not really all that bothered by whatever form
widgets are on  fedoraproject.org root url. Only one I see is the one
to switch the language, which is small enough and out of the way
enough to not worry about personally. 

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 


But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
(rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).

  

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
You don't understand. Rectangular widgets, non-native are ugly and
they're making websites looking more out-of-the-box, what's wrong.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:23 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
 I see nothing wrong with styling it for those who have support for it.
 It's a web accessability thing. Ability to style it and see a nice
 looking form, or if your browser doesn't support it, then it still
 gets form controls with the universal default which still allows it to
 be useable. If your complaint is that the styled version is 90ish
 with a square appearance, then I will reconsider my arguements.
 
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
  Exactly that widgets should not be styled.
  
  Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:06 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:

   Well, you can do the appealing to the people that be that dictate the
   default appearance of any sort of basic form appearance for forms.
   It's nothing that the art or the website team have anything to do
   with. Until you can appeal to the people that set this, you can either
   use a browser that supports styled forms, or put up with it.
   
   On a personal note, I am not really all that bothered by whatever form
   widgets are on  fedoraproject.org root url. Only one I see is the one
   to switch the language, which is small enough and out of the way
   enough to not worry about personally. 
   
   Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
   
But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
(rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).

  
   -- 
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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Michael Beckwith
FP.org is not a Web 2.0centric website. The most important thing for it 
to do is present information about Fedora. If you really want to have 
things with the form change, contact the right mailing list and appeal 
your case to them.


Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

You don't understand. Rectangular widgets, non-native are ugly and
they're making websites looking more out-of-the-box, what's wrong.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:23 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  

I see nothing wrong with styling it for those who have support for it.
It's a web accessability thing. Ability to style it and see a nice
looking form, or if your browser doesn't support it, then it still
gets form controls with the universal default which still allows it to
be useable. If your complaint is that the styled version is 90ish
with a square appearance, then I will reconsider my arguements.

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 


Exactly that widgets should not be styled.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:06 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  
  

Well, you can do the appealing to the people that be that dictate the
default appearance of any sort of basic form appearance for forms.
It's nothing that the art or the website team have anything to do
with. Until you can appeal to the people that set this, you can either
use a browser that supports styled forms, or put up with it.

On a personal note, I am not really all that bothered by whatever form
widgets are on  fedoraproject.org root url. Only one I see is the one
to switch the language, which is small enough and out of the way
enough to not worry about personally. 

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 



But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
(rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).

  
  

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
What styling form has to do with Web2.0? What you're talking about,
man?!

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 13:16 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
 FP.org is not a Web 2.0centric website. The most important thing for
 it to do is present information about Fedora. If you really want to
 have things with the form change, contact the right mailing list and
 appeal your case to them.
 
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
  You don't understand. Rectangular widgets, non-native are ugly and
  they're making websites looking more out-of-the-box, what's wrong.
  
  Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:23 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:

   I see nothing wrong with styling it for those who have support for it.
   It's a web accessability thing. Ability to style it and see a nice
   looking form, or if your browser doesn't support it, then it still
   gets form controls with the universal default which still allows it to
   be useable. If your complaint is that the styled version is 90ish
   with a square appearance, then I will reconsider my arguements.
   
   Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
   
Exactly that widgets should not be styled.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 12:06 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  
  
 Well, you can do the appealing to the people that be that dictate the
 default appearance of any sort of basic form appearance for forms.
 It's nothing that the art or the website team have anything to do
 with. Until you can appeal to the people that set this, you can either
 use a browser that supports styled forms, or put up with it.
 
 On a personal note, I am not really all that bothered by whatever form
 widgets are on  fedoraproject.org root url. Only one I see is the one
 to switch the language, which is small enough and out of the way
 enough to not worry about personally. 
 
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: 
 
 
  But it doesn't change the fact. Form styling (not the alignment, the
  appearance css part) MUST be removed or changed to non-rectangular
  (rectangles were nice in win9x epoch).
  


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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Michael Beckwith
Actually, Jakub, could you do me a favor and link to a page or image of 
the type of form styling you would like to see?


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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
Google.com - native widgets.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 15:58 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
 Actually, Jakub, could you do me a favor and link to a page or image of 
 the type of form styling you would like to see?
 
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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Michael Beckwith
Why should I do a google search for something you're arguing for? I 
don't have a problem with what I'm seeing when I visit the page. Just 
for the sake of not arguing, I did do a google search for both native 
widgets and didn't find any sort of examples of what I was asking for. 
Maybe I'm just blind, so if you could point one out like I asked, I'd be 
happy to click.


Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

Google.com - native widgets.

Dnia 25-12-2007, wto o godzinie 15:58 -0600, Michael Beckwith pisze:
  
Actually, Jakub, could you do me a favor and link to a page or image of 
the type of form styling you would like to see?


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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-25 Thread Mike McGrath


On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

 Hi,

 I don't know who made CSS for fpo, but he should know, that native
 widgets look better than rectangular ugly ones...

 Especially when Firefox 3 is gonna arrive very quickly.


FWIW, - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/ShowUs

-Mike

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-24 Thread Kevin Kofler
Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek jakub.rusinek at gmail.com writes:
 I don't know who made CSS for fpo, but he should know, that native
 widgets look better than rectangular ugly ones...

Could it be that your browser sucks? ;-) Konqueror is showing me only native 
form widgets on fedoraproject.org.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-24 Thread Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek
Mine browser doesn't suck, silly.

Konqueror doesn't support styled forms. Run Firefox 2 and then Firefox
3.

FF2 - ugly non-gtk widgets on websites.
FF3 - beautiful gtk widgets on websites and those rectangular piece
of... rectangle.

Dnia 24-12-2007, pon o godzinie 23:01 +, Kevin Kofler pisze:
 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek jakub.rusinek at gmail.com writes:
  I don't know who made CSS for fpo, but he should know, that native
  widgets look better than rectangular ugly ones...
 
 Could it be that your browser sucks? ;-) Konqueror is showing me only native 
 form widgets on fedoraproject.org.
 
 Kevin Kofler
 
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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-24 Thread Kevin Kofler
Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek jakub.rusinek at gmail.com writes:
 Konqueror doesn't support styled forms.

And I'd say that's a good thing, for the exact reason you describe. I haven't 
tried the KDE 4 version yet though, they might have fixed it.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Form widgets on fpo website

2007-12-23 Thread Michael Beckwith

Concerns like this should go to the fedora-websites-list

Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:

Hi,

I don't know who made CSS for fpo, but he should know, that native
widgets look better than rectangular ugly ones...

Especially when Firefox 3 is gonna arrive very quickly.

  



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