Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Saturday 29 August 2009 22:43:46 Kevin Kofler wrote: Matthias Clasen wrote: Anyway, this all seems to be a somewhat moot discussion, trying to nail us down on a 'promise to keep the old stuff around', when there already is a patch that can solve the whole dilemma. Looks like this is actually moot. I checked for how much of KDE really uses PolicyKit as of KDE 4.3. It turns out that the only user is PolicyKit-KDE itself. And it's kinda moot to keep the old framework around just to have an authentication agent no program will ever call into or an authorization editor for a database no other program will ever look into. ;-) I told you that it's not used (nearly) anywhere ;-) I proposed removal of Polkit-qt and PolicyKit-KDE - we don't need it (for now). It's maybe better solution than shipping incompatible library with the upstream one. API ABI compatibility is broken by my patch. But the patch is working, need some polishing. That's not problem, compatibility is. So I'm retracting both my offer to maintain a compat package for PolicyKit 0.9 and my request to not retire it, it looks like we really don't need it anymore. (Well, it's pretty bad that we get PK1 forced on us before the KDE auth agent is ready, but that's not something a compat package could fix, only reverting the whole thing could.) Kauth actually uses old Polkit-qt but it's KDE 4.4 stuff. It should be ported to use PK1 - question is - port it directly to KAuth - so we don't need PolicyKit-Qt but Qt based library should be nice to have. I think best way to avoid this problems is to do the same as in PackageKit - PolicyKit-qt should be part of PolicyKit GIT/package. David, Matthias what do you think? Could I ask you to join you there? Hopefully, by KDE 4.4, when more KDE stuff will actually use PolicyKit, we'll have a solution for PolicyKit 1 support. I also hope we'll be able to provide a KDE auth agent soon (but for now please see our request to enable the GNOME one in KDE – we need SOME auth agent running in KDE ASAP to make KPackageKit work properly). +1 Kevin Kofler Jaroslav -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
Matthias Clasen wrote: Anyway, this all seems to be a somewhat moot discussion, trying to nail us down on a 'promise to keep the old stuff around', when there already is a patch that can solve the whole dilemma. Looks like this is actually moot. I checked for how much of KDE really uses PolicyKit as of KDE 4.3. It turns out that the only user is PolicyKit-KDE itself. And it's kinda moot to keep the old framework around just to have an authentication agent no program will ever call into or an authorization editor for a database no other program will ever look into. ;-) So I'm retracting both my offer to maintain a compat package for PolicyKit 0.9 and my request to not retire it, it looks like we really don't need it anymore. (Well, it's pretty bad that we get PK1 forced on us before the KDE auth agent is ready, but that's not something a compat package could fix, only reverting the whole thing could.) Hopefully, by KDE 4.4, when more KDE stuff will actually use PolicyKit, we'll have a solution for PolicyKit 1 support. I also hope we'll be able to provide a KDE auth agent soon (but for now please see our request to enable the GNOME one in KDE – we need SOME auth agent running in KDE ASAP to make KPackageKit work properly). Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Thursday 27 August 2009 18:45:44 Matthias Clasen wrote: On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 17:35 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Jaroslav Reznik wrote: PolicyKit-KDE is now integral part of kdebase-workspace, it is a KDE 4.3 feature, we should disable it for now (untill we have new ported version). Same problem is with PolicyKit-Qt as my quick port breaks API. I'd like to prepare new PolicyKit-Qt, more powerful that actually matches PolicyKit Authority DBUS interface. It's quite a bad timing with switching to new PolicyKit. I'm not sure I'll have releasable version in time of beta, I'll try it but there's still question with API compatibility for KDE 4.3. There are no KDE apps utilizing PK-Qt now so I think it's not problem to do not ship it now. What do you think? System Settings uses it (well, 1 or 2 modules do). And PolicyKit integration is advertised as a KDE 4.3 feature by upstream and even our feature page. So I think just dropping it is not an option. I'd be willing to maintain PolicyKit 0.9 packages (as compatibility packages (though renaming should not be needed as they already have distinct names), to be used by KDE) for F12. It is my understanding that those will not conflict with PolicyKit 1 and can coexist just fine, if that's not the case, please correct me. So please don't obsolete PolicyKit 0.9! I have been able to port some 10-12 PolicyKit users from 0.9 to 0.90 in a matter of a few days. The KDE sig should really be able to get this port done. We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. I have initial port - it really took two days. It's not finished as I'm not sure about shipping such big change in KDE, practically our own fork of PolicyKitQt library. With 0.92 it wasn't even possible to use this library as it was intended! I can give a shot with 0.94, seems like it's working now and usable. I'll try to finish it but really I really don't want to ship this hack/fork. I'd like to have proper PolicyKit 1 support, based on library from scratch, using DBUS interface (I don't know how to combine C++ with Glib callbacks, any help?) and offering same API as Glib version. But this is more KDE 4.4. stuff. Next time please try to synchronize/coordinate with upstreams you are targeting ;-) I'd like to help upstream as it comes from Fedora. We're trying to be more proactive in this area but you know, we're few people right now (but growing!). Another problem as I've already described is that new Policy Kit does not run nearly anywhere, even I had to update to Rawhide (btw X server is really very broken by now). Jaroslav Matthias -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
Matthias Clasen wrote: I have been able to port some 10-12 PolicyKit users from 0.9 to 0.90 in a matter of a few days. The KDE sig should really be able to get this port done. We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. The PolicyKitOne feature page does include in its contingency plan: If not all ports listed above can be completed in time, keep PolicyKit 0.9 around... -- Rex -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Friday 28 August 2009 15:36:19 Matthias Clasen wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 06:47 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: Matthias Clasen wrote: I have been able to port some 10-12 PolicyKit users from 0.9 to 0.90 in a matter of a few days. The KDE sig should really be able to get this port done. We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. The PolicyKitOne feature page does include in its contingency plan: If not all ports listed above can be completed in time, keep PolicyKit 0.9 around... Right. But from what I've heard that is not the case. Jreznik just said: I have initial port [...] seems like it's working now and usable. Yes, I have port but I'm not sure how to combine it into current KDE as it breaks polkit-qt API and I don't like shipping big patches that actually forks project. I'd like to see it from upstream. I'm working on this, we have topic for our next KDE SIG meeting. If you could join, it would be great - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings. Matthias, could you please look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=519674 Thanks Jaroslav -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 12:45 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: I'd be willing to maintain PolicyKit 0.9 packages (as compatibility packages (though renaming should not be needed as they already have distinct names), to be used by KDE) for F12. It is my understanding that those will not conflict with PolicyKit 1 and can coexist just fine, if that's not the case, please correct me. So please don't obsolete PolicyKit 0.9! We announced that this would happen long ago. And, FWIW, it was approved long ago by FESCO too. And you've been aware of this long ago as well. So, sorry, but we will obsolete the old packages and I'm afraid you will need to deal with it. Just like everyone else. We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. Indeed. And in this transition period where we've been shipping both set of packages, there has been a lot of confusion. I've witnessed that myself. We just don't want that to happen in a released OS. David -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Friday 28 August 2009 16:23:07 David Zeuthen wrote: On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 12:45 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: I'd be willing to maintain PolicyKit 0.9 packages (as compatibility packages (though renaming should not be needed as they already have distinct names), to be used by KDE) for F12. It is my understanding that those will not conflict with PolicyKit 1 and can coexist just fine, if that's not the case, please correct me. So please don't obsolete PolicyKit 0.9! We announced that this would happen long ago. And, FWIW, it was approved long ago by FESCO too. And you've been aware of this long ago as well. So, sorry, but we will obsolete the old packages and I'm afraid you will need to deal with it. Just like everyone else. As I said - patches are mostly ready, only polishing is needed. What I don't like is that it is our fork of polkit-qt. I think we should discuss it at KDE SIG meeting, how to do it carefully. You can join us. It's Freedesktop.org hosted, so it should match releases of major desktop environments, not one distribution. Upstream is not using Fedora, they can't get it running (I'm not blaming anyone), so it looks I'm now upstream ;-) I know why are you pushing on this and I don't have objections. For Authentication Agent we'd like to use Gnome as I'm fighting with it. BeginAuthentication method should be OK, but daemon does not accept it's signature... Could I ping you sometime next week? I'm leaving soon today... Thanks Jaroslav We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. Indeed. And in this transition period where we've been shipping both set of packages, there has been a lot of confusion. I've witnessed that myself. We just don't want that to happen in a released OS. David -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Friday 28 August 2009 16:14:51 Jaroslav Reznik wrote: On Friday 28 August 2009 15:36:19 Matthias Clasen wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 06:47 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: Matthias Clasen wrote: I have been able to port some 10-12 PolicyKit users from 0.9 to 0.90 in a matter of a few days. The KDE sig should really be able to get this port done. We really don't want to ship multiple authorization databases, that way lies confusion and madness. The PolicyKitOne feature page does include in its contingency plan: If not all ports listed above can be completed in time, keep PolicyKit 0.9 around... Right. But from what I've heard that is not the case. Jreznik just said: I have initial port [...] seems like it's working now and usable. Yes, I have port but I'm not sure how to combine it into current KDE as it breaks polkit-qt API and I don't like shipping big patches that actually forks project. I'd like to see it from upstream. And this apply only to polkit-qt-core, I'm not even sure it's easily possible to port polkit-qt-gui without mayor rewrite. Jaroslav I'm working on this, we have topic for our next KDE SIG meeting. If you could join, it would be great - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings. Matthias, could you please look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=519674 Thanks Jaroslav -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
David Zeuthen wrote: We announced that this would happen long ago. And, FWIW, it was approved long ago by FESCO too. You (well, whoever from your team was there to talk about the feature) promised to FESCo that PolicyKit 0.9 and 1.0 can coexist and that 0.9 can stay around if somebody signs up to maintain the compat package. I can dig up the log if you don't believe me. So, sorry, but we will obsolete the old packages Obsoleting packages which somebody still wants to maintain is extremely bad form. Especially if it's a library which is needed by other packages. Indeed. And in this transition period where we've been shipping both set of packages, there has been a lot of confusion. I've witnessed that myself. We just don't want that to happen in a released OS. The compat lib would only ship on the KDE spin. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
On Thursday 27 August 2009 17:35:36 Kevin Kofler wrote: Jaroslav Reznik wrote: PolicyKit-KDE is now integral part of kdebase-workspace, it is a KDE 4.3 feature, we should disable it for now (untill we have new ported version). Same problem is with PolicyKit-Qt as my quick port breaks API. I'd like to prepare new PolicyKit-Qt, more powerful that actually matches PolicyKit Authority DBUS interface. It's quite a bad timing with switching to new PolicyKit. I'm not sure I'll have releasable version in time of beta, I'll try it but there's still question with API compatibility for KDE 4.3. There are no KDE apps utilizing PK-Qt now so I think it's not problem to do not ship it now. What do you think? System Settings uses it (well, 1 or 2 modules do). And PolicyKit integration is advertised as a KDE 4.3 feature by upstream and even our feature page. So I think just dropping it is not an option. I'd be willing to maintain PolicyKit 0.9 packages (as compatibility packages (though renaming should not be needed as they already have distinct names), to be used by KDE) for F12. It is my understanding that those will not conflict with PolicyKit 1 and can coexist just fine, if that's not the case, please correct me. So please don't obsolete PolicyKit 0.9! +1 for compat package! Kevin Kofler -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 731 455 332 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: PolicyKit 0.9 is going away
Jaroslav Reznik wrote: PolicyKit-KDE is now integral part of kdebase-workspace, it is a KDE 4.3 feature, we should disable it for now (untill we have new ported version). Same problem is with PolicyKit-Qt as my quick port breaks API. I'd like to prepare new PolicyKit-Qt, more powerful that actually matches PolicyKit Authority DBUS interface. It's quite a bad timing with switching to new PolicyKit. I'm not sure I'll have releasable version in time of beta, I'll try it but there's still question with API compatibility for KDE 4.3. There are no KDE apps utilizing PK-Qt now so I think it's not problem to do not ship it now. What do you think? System Settings uses it (well, 1 or 2 modules do). And PolicyKit integration is advertised as a KDE 4.3 feature by upstream and even our feature page. So I think just dropping it is not an option. I'd be willing to maintain PolicyKit 0.9 packages (as compatibility packages (though renaming should not be needed as they already have distinct names), to be used by KDE) for F12. It is my understanding that those will not conflict with PolicyKit 1 and can coexist just fine, if that's not the case, please correct me. So please don't obsolete PolicyKit 0.9! Kevin Kofler -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
