Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave)
Thanks for your reply Beth. I'm an engineer and I'm trying to make sense out of the tests...and what you said isn't all making sense to me yet :). The kittens had been separated from their mother for most of their lives. The mother was an outside-cat and died/disappeared right after the kittens were born. My nephew hand-fed the litter and we adopted two of five original kittens. They would have been un-exposed to other cats for more than six months before we tested them originally. The original Elisa should have been positive because we had them for 90 days before spaying them and they were in my nephew's care for many more months before that. The vet also latches onto that period as originating their exposure to the virus...because nothing else makes sense. The cat community lives in my sister's barn in a rural section of Wisconsin...she has put many cats up for adoption and has never had a case of FeLV in any of the their cats to date. The IFA detects viral protein either in the blood or blood cells. If Tux had anemia from FeLV itself then the virus would have to be very active in the bone marrow and blood, or, her immune system was compromised and she got a parasitic infection...also involving FeLV in the bone marrow. In both cases, with something as severe as anemia presenting, the IFA would be positive. It doesn't make sense that the IFA could be negative under these circumstances. From what I read you don't get anemia on initial exposure to the virus...the anemia is a side effect of serious infection of the bone marrow and white blood cells. Here is what I read about the snap test online (considering the source): 1) There is room for interpretation of the results by the technician (color detection). Sometimes the color is very faint or an over-zealous tech can see a faint color when there is none. 2) Some other antibodies in the blood can cross-react with the elisa...giving a false positive. 3) First two issues aside, the test is 95% accurate. IFA is over 99% accurate. Thanks again for your reply...I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why the IFA was negative in such a severe case of anemia and how Tux could ever have been exposed to the virus. Thanks. Dave ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave)
Well, the SNAP could indeed be wrong, Most vets now use the 3-way SNAP tests - FIV+FeLV+Heart Worm. Our shelter had horrible problems with these tests producing false negatives. We stopped using them. We got ahold of the old tests. Is the anemia better now? I think you said it was up to 15% from 10%, thought it's my understanding that that can vary, too by whether or not the cat is being given fluids. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: David Arthurs arthurs.da...@gmail.com To: felvtalk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave) Thanks for your reply Beth. I'm an engineer and I'm trying to make sense out of the tests...and what you said isn't all making sense to me yet :). The kittens had been separated from their mother for most of their lives. The mother was an outside-cat and died/disappeared right after the kittens were born. My nephew hand-fed the litter and we adopted two of five original kittens. They would have been un-exposed to other cats for more than six months before we tested them originally. The original Elisa should have been positive because we had them for 90 days before spaying them and they were in my nephew's care for many more months before that. The vet also latches onto that period as originating their exposure to the virus...because nothing else makes sense. The cat community lives in my sister's barn in a rural section of Wisconsin...she has put many cats up for adoption and has never had a case of FeLV in any of the their cats to date. The IFA detects viral protein either in the blood or blood cells. If Tux had anemia from FeLV itself then the virus would have to be very active in the bone marrow and blood, or, her immune system was compromised and she got a parasitic infection...also involving FeLV in the bone marrow. In both cases, with something as severe as anemia presenting, the IFA would be positive. It doesn't make sense that the IFA could be negative under these circumstances. From what I read you don't get anemia on initial exposure to the virus...the anemia is a side effect of serious infection of the bone marrow and white blood cells. Here is what I read about the snap test online (considering the source): 1) There is room for interpretation of the results by the technician (color detection). Sometimes the color is very faint or an over-zealous tech can see a faint color when there is none. 2) Some other antibodies in the blood can cross-react with the elisa...giving a false positive. 3) First two issues aside, the test is 95% accurate. IFA is over 99% accurate. Thanks again for your reply...I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why the IFA was negative in such a severe case of anemia and how Tux could ever have been exposed to the virus. Thanks. Dave ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave)
Dave, I have to agree with you. I have fostered many FeLV kittens who were positive from birth. Most died before they were 2 yrs old. Only one survived until 4 yo. In my experience kittens born to a positive mom test positive from the get go Shayrl From: David Arthurs arthurs.da...@gmail.com To: felvtalk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave) Thanks for your reply Beth. I'm an engineer and I'm trying to make sense out of the tests...and what you said isn't all making sense to me yet :). The kittens had been separated from their mother for most of their lives. The mother was an outside-cat and died/disappeared right after the kittens were born. My nephew hand-fed the litter and we adopted two of five original kittens. They would have been un-exposed to other cats for more than six months before we tested them originally. The original Elisa should have been positive because we had them for 90 days before spaying them and they were in my nephew's care for many more months before that. The vet also latches onto that period as originating their exposure to the virus...because nothing else makes sense. The cat community lives in my sister's barn in a rural section of Wisconsin...she has put many cats up for adoption and has never had a case of FeLV in any of the their cats to date. The IFA detects viral protein either in the blood or blood cells. If Tux had anemia from FeLV itself then the virus would have to be very active in the bone marrow and blood, or, her immune system was compromised and she got a parasitic infection...also involving FeLV in the bone marrow. In both cases, with something as severe as anemia presenting, the IFA would be positive. It doesn't make sense that the IFA could be negative under these circumstances. From what I read you don't get anemia on initial exposure to the virus...the anemia is a side effect of serious infection of the bone marrow and white blood cells. Here is what I read about the snap test online (considering the source): 1) There is room for interpretation of the results by the technician (color detection). Sometimes the color is very faint or an over-zealous tech can see a faint color when there is none. 2) Some other antibodies in the blood can cross-react with the elisa...giving a false positive. 3) First two issues aside, the test is 95% accurate. IFA is over 99% accurate. Thanks again for your reply...I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why the IFA was negative in such a severe case of anemia and how Tux could ever have been exposed to the virus. Thanks. Dave ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FelV Positive mother
On 12-27, Sharyl wrote: Dave, I have to agree with you. I have fostered many FeLV kittens who were positive from birth. Most died before they were 2 yrs old. Only one survived until 4 yo. In my experience kittens born to a positive mom test positive from the get go. I have a litter of rescued kittens who are now 7 months old. Their mother was feral and FelV pos. All 4 kittens tested pos. at 3 months old. One died a week ago, but the others seem fine. I had one neutered and re-tested and he was such a light pos. on the Elisa the tech could barely consider it pos. I am hoping he and the other two kittens will turn negative next time I test them. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave)
It's rather unlikely but not impossible that there was a false negative in the ELISA test, especially given the history of the cats. The IFA test is not perfect either. Have you considered any other possibility, such as Hemobartonella, which can be treated with doses of Baytril? I have had two cats who suffered from hemobartonella. It's difficult to diagnose but some of Tux's symptoms seem to be those of this disease. Fleas spread hemobartonella so you might want to treat Jet with Frontline Plus or Advantage for Cats. Tests can come up with all sorts of incorrect results. Several of my adult cats off the street tested positive for FeLv but had so many other issues like URI, mange, etc. that their immune systems were overwhelmed. After treatment for the other problems and after three months these cats tested negative for FeLv. You need to retest both cats but first bring the problem with Tux under control. Maybe you should seek a second opinion from another vet not associated with the woman who seems to test for a pre-determined opinion she has. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Dave Arthurs arthurs.da...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Re anemia and negative IFA (Dave) Thanks for the info. We've had Tux and her litter mate, Jet, since they were around 6 months old. Both were tested and negative when they were spayed at 9 months. If they were exposed it had to be 4.5 years ago and then they both had false negative elisa tests. We are going to test Jet. I'll share those results when we get them. Based on the flow chart we'll re-test Tux with IFA in 30 and 60 days. If those tests are negative then we'll accept the negative diagnosis. Yes, the blood antibody test may indicate an auto immune disorder. This test will also be positive for blood-specific antigens (parasites and FeLV). We didn't want to take any more blood so we just started treatment for parasites without confirmation. The vet indicated that the antibiotic would be prescribed for FeLV anyway to ward off secondary infections. I read that elisa can be false positive for a lot of reasons. In this case technician error is at the top of my thoughts. I think the vet had decided on the diagnosis and read the elisa wrong. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and experiences with FeLV. Dave On Dec 25, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Lori felineres...@frontier.com wrote: ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
