Re: transfusion donors
I'm wondering also if there are cheaper places to have transfusions done. My internist charged $412. Out of that, $30 was for the red blood count. -Kyle - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: transfusion donors I have to say I would complain if a donor cat were kept in a cage in the back! That is ridiculous! My vet does have donor cats who are 'office cats' . BUT they are up for adoption. They don't just stay and do that forever! Also, if you know in advance, there are 'bloodbanks' for cats to my knowledge. Of course, I don't know how cats are kept that donate to the bank. Good thing to look into... I will ask my vet next time I'm in. tMelbeach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jenn, I thought about that after the last transfusion. My vet mentioned that they had a cat on hand for doing transfusions. What an awful fate! Spending your life in a cage, waiting to have a needle stuck in your arm. I was definitely disturbed when I heard about this. That's why I offered to bring Brissle's littermate brother in as a donor. In Brissle's case with the first transfusion at our regular vet, the onsite cat had a different blood type. So my vet was kind enough to use his own cat as a donor. With my internist, I'm not sure. Can't they just draw the blood and store it?I was thinking this had to be the case with the internist, as they charged double what my vet charged ($400 vs $200). Probably not though. My internist is the only show in town. Plus his office is exquisite. You'd think they would cut down on overhead a bit to help their customers save some cash! -Kyle - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Brissle crashing again, bloodwork looks grim. I hope yourbaby feels better after the transfusion! I'd just like to point out, that in many cases (but not all), there is a donor cat inthe vet's office (maybe caged in the back, or could be the "office cat" who greets you), who is saving your cat's life. Try to go out of your way to tell the donor cat thanks (if there is one), and give him/her a good petting, it's the least we can do for those cats who do so much for us and out babies! (I worked at a vet clinic and will never forget "Sugar" our office's "donor cat". Just a little reminder that there's two sides to every story.) Jenn ~~~Well Brissle is having her transfusion now. My internist feels that shereally needs to have her marrow tested in order to be sure about how toproceed. If it is erythroleukemia, this is a rare form, that's very hard totreat. He said there's a small chance that an oncologist may be able to moveforward without the marrow test. He just doesn't know. That's not hisexpertise. Of course the only oncologist is about a four hour drive away. IfBrissle's rbc is high enough on Monday, I will probably go ahead with thetest. These people are not cheap. $750 for the marrow test.The other option the internist mentioned, as crazy as it sounds, would be touse the blood transfusions as her main therapy. He believes that consideringwhat looks to be going on with Brissle's bone marrow, the interferons andimmunoregulin may have only been helping slightly. But the transfusion itselfwas the main catalyst towards Brissle recovering. I told him I thought bloodtransfusions only lasted a few days. But he said they can last a month or two. No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 4/21/2005
Re: OT - lurker back on-line!
Thanks, Tonya! Me too! T - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Re: OT - lurker back on-line! Welcome back, Terri. I like to see us old timers hangin' around! tCherie A Gabbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome back ;-)) CherieTerri Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving was an odyssey. I hope to not do that again anytime soon! Hugs to all -- I've been off line for almost a month, so condolences to anyone who may have lost a furbaby, and healing thoughts being sent out for all sick furchildren. My DSL was all messed up from the move and only came back up a few days ago. My clowder did very well with the move. Siggie took it hardest, but he's okay now. The "twins" (Sammi and Guinevere) were at home in 24 hours. Salome' was a little freaked -- she never knew any home but the one we just moved from, and I was worried about her, but she is absolutely fine, and still perfectly healthy. It's good to be back! =^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^= Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350
Re: Turn for the worse
I know what you mean - I took my Calla to an emergency vet in 2004 before she died. He did a lot of tests, which I regret as I already knew what was going on, and he was very negative in his approach, wanted to euthanize her after all that, nothing helpful as a result of the $200 tests. I took her there wanting fluids, and he wouldn't do that - wish I hadn't gone, never go back - I know someone here who turned a pet carrier into an oxygen chamber and it worked well for them - course you have to have a prescription for a tank of oxygen...and an understanding vet. Fingers crossed here for Roxie - Gloria My poor Roxie has taken a sudden turn for the worse. Last week we took her into my regular vet last week for an upper respiratory infection and he started her on Lysine and antibotics (she has been on interferon since March). On Friday night we noticed her breathing was heavier and more rapid then normal. She was also lethargic and her appetite had decreased. On Saturday evening she was even breathing with her mouth open at times so we took her into the animal emergency office. I didn't realize how much I appreciate my normal vet until I talked to this guy. He was very negative and made us feel like we were giving Roxie a poor quality of life by keeping her alive. But the thing is, until last week, she has always been very healthy. He did soften up a little toward the end of the visit (I was in tears by this point). They put Roxie on oxygen for about an hour and gave her shots of Dexamethasone and Brethine, hoping that it would open her airways. So far, she is some better, but her breathing does get worse when she gets stressed, and giving her he antibotics really stresses her. I just hope that she is able to get passed this. I am at my wits end. I plan to take her back to the regular vet on Monday unless she is dramatically better. Thanks for listening, I really appreciate this group so much. I usually only lurk, but its such a comfort to be able to tell my story to people who really understand. Please keep your fingers crossed for my little Roxie - Lisa __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Turn for the worse
Dear Lisa I know what you mean about emergency vets. I'm sending lots of healing thoughts for little Roxie, and lots of good wishesfor the visit toyour vet tomorrow. (Are you able to take her when they open in the am?) I'm so glad you didn't succumb to the pressure. You know your kitty best. Keep us posted when you have time. Big hugs to the little furball, take care, Kerry - Original Message - From: Lisa Roberts To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Turn for the worse My poor Roxie has taken a sudden turn for the worse. Last week we took her into my regular vet last week for an upper respiratory infection and he started her on Lysine and antibotics (she has been on interferon since March). On Friday night we noticed her breathing was heavier and more rapid then normal. She was also lethargic and her appetite had decreased. On Saturday evening she was even breathing with her mouth open at times so we took her into the animal emergency office. I didn't realize how much I appreciate my normal vet until I talked to this guy. He was very negative and made us feel like we were giving Roxie a poor quality of life by keeping her alive. But the thing is, until last week, she has always been very healthy. He did soften up a little toward the end of the visit (I was in tears by this point). They put Roxie on oxygen for about an hour and gave her shots of Dexamethasone and Brethine, hoping that it would open her airways. So far, she is some better, but her breathing does get worse when she gets stressed, and giving her he antibotics really stresses her. I just hope that she is able to get passed this. I am at my wits end. I plan to take her back to the regular vet on Monday unless she is dramatically better. Thanks for listening, I really appreciate this group so much. I usually only lurk, but its such a comfort to be able to tell my story to people who really understand. Please keep your fingers crossed for my little Roxie - Lisa __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Turn for the worse
Sending healing positive vibes your way Lisa, I hope with all my heart all goes well. CherieKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lisa I know what you mean about emergency vets. I'm sending lots of healing thoughts for little Roxie, and lots of good wishesfor the visit toyour vet tomorrow. (Are you able to take her when they open in the am?) I'm so glad you didn't succumb to the pressure. You know your kitty best. Keep us posted when you have time. Big hugs to the little furball, take care, Kerry - Original Message - From: Lisa Roberts To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Turn for the worse My poor Roxie has taken a sudden turn for the worse. Last week we took her into my regular vet last week for an upper respiratory infection and he started her on Lysine and antibotics (she has been on interferon since March). On Friday night we noticed her breathing was heavier and more rapid then normal. She was also lethargic and her appetite had decreased. On Saturday evening she was even breathing with her mouth open at times so we took her into the animal emergency office. I didn't realize how much I appreciate my normal vet until I talked to this guy. He was very negative and made us feel like we were giving Roxie a poor quality of life by keeping her alive. But the thing is, until last week, she has always been very healthy. He did soften up a little toward the end of the visit (I was in tears by this point). They put Roxie on oxygen for about an hour and gave her shots of Dexamethasone and Brethine, hoping that it would open her airways. So far, she is some better, but her breathing does get worse when she gets stressed, and giving her he antibotics really stresses her. I just hope that she is able to get passed this. I am at my wits end. I plan to take her back to the regular vet on Monday unless she is dramatically better. Thanks for listening, I really appreciate this group so much. I usually only lurk, but its such a comfort to be able to tell my story to people who really understand. Please keep your fingers crossed for my little Roxie - Lisa __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Turn for the worse
Lisa, Emergency vets just suck. I'm glad you held your ground too. I hope when you see your regular vet tomorrow she'll have some good ideas to help Roxy feel better soon. tonyaKerry MacKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lisa I know what you mean about emergency vets. I'm sending lots of healing thoughts for little Roxie, and lots of good wishesfor the visit toyour vet tomorrow. (Are you able to take her when they open in the am?) I'm so glad you didn't succumb to the pressure. You know your kitty best. Keep us posted when you have time. Big hugs to the little furball, take care, Kerry - Original Message - From: Lisa Roberts To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:16 AM Subject: Turn for the worse My poor Roxie has taken a sudden turn for the worse. Last week we took her into my regular vet last week for an upper respiratory infection and he started her on Lysine and antibotics (she has been on interferon since March). On Friday night we noticed her breathing was heavier and more rapid then normal. She was also lethargic and her appetite had decreased. On Saturday evening she was even breathing with her mouth open at times so we took her into the animal emergency office. I didn't realize how much I appreciate my normal vet until I talked to this guy. He was very negative and made us feel like we were giving Roxie a poor quality of life by keeping her alive. But the thing is, until last week, she has always been very healthy. He did soften up a little toward the end of the visit (I was in tears by this point). They put Roxie on oxygen for about an hour and gave her shots of Dexamethasone and Brethine, hoping that it would open her airways. So far, she is some better, but her breathing does get worse when she gets stressed, and giving her he antibotics really stresses her. I just hope that she is able to get passed this. I am at my wits end. I plan to take her back to the regular vet on Monday unless she is dramatically better. Thanks for listening, I really appreciate this group so much. I usually only lurk, but its such a comfort to be able to tell my story to people who really understand. Please keep your fingers crossed for my little Roxie - Lisa __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Brissle crashing again, bloodwork looks grim.
Dear Kyle: So sorry to hear that Brissle is crashing again. Please don't beat yourself up what-iffing. At this point, what she has been eating and whether or not she got Pet Tinic or some other supplements on a daily basis is a minor consideration. Once an FeLV+ kitty crashes and has developed lymphoma/other cancers and/or non-regenerative anemia, this is indicative that the FeLV virus has recombined with a cat's DNA and mutated to one of its more virlent subgroups and there is, so far, no known treatment that can reverse this process. Some treatments, in some cats, seem to slow it down and buy a bit of time, but it is no longer a question of if but rather WHEN the cat will lose his/her battle. You have been trying to do the best you can to help Brissle, but it can reach a point when it is out of our hands. I have yet to find any research literature or other evidence of a cat being able to recover from FeLV and serconvert once the virus has infected the bone marrow, which occurs in stage 4 of the infectious process. Fortunately, most healthy, adult cats are resistant to infection and even up to stage 3 of the infectious process can clear the virus. Once the virus infects the bone marrow in stage 4, however, a cat will remain persistently viremic for the rest of his/her life. Some cats can remain stable at this stage indefinitely. Putting stable, persistently FeLV+ cats on a healthy, natural diet with immune support supps, keeping them indoors and preventing exposure to strange cats who may carry disease or other pathogens and/or environmental toxins and mimimizing any type of stress in their lives seems to be helpful in this regard. But it still is no guarantee. What it is that triggers mutation of the virus in some cats has not been definitively established. It is not an inevitable, by any means. The inherent strength of each cat's immune system, both before and after infection, is one factor, which must be assumed to have a largely genetic basis. Various types of physical and emotional stress, which can have a negative effect on immune function, also seem to be factors. Vaccines, for example, have been known to trigger a latent FeLV infection into an active one. If I remember correctly, you didn't even know Brissle was FeLV+ until she initially crashed, and that is often the case...by the time you know there is a problem, your best chance to effect a more positive outcome through supportive measures has, sadly, already passed. As to why a transfusion can create such a dramatically positive effect for some cats, as it did for Brissle, is that it temporarily recharges the bloodstream with RBC capable of carrying life-supporting oxygen. It can also play a role in temporarily reducing the viral load. Severe anemia has a devastating effect on the body and all its organs. The RBC are the ones which supply life-supporting oxygen to all bodily tissues. When the bone marrow is trashed and can no longer continue to make sufficient new RBC to replace those being broken down by normal bodily processes, all tissues suffer and are running on near empty, so to speak. As anemia gets progressively worse, body tissues literally suffocate and begin to die. And while a transfusion provides a supply of fresh RBC, they don't last forever and as they die off the body once again becomes oxygen-depeleted if the bone marrow is not making enough healthy new ones to take their place. It could be that initially, Brissle's anemia was not totally non-regenerative and given the boost of the first transfusion, her body was strong enough to sustain itself for a while and was still able to make some new RBC. It would seem now, however, from her most recent blood results that Brissle's condition is not just a simple matter of whether or not her bone marrow is able to make new RBC, but the RBC being made (as well as other blood factors) are abnormal and not able to mature and be fully functional. The commentary from the lab results found it to be consistent with a type of leukemia, i. e. erythroleukemia? This is a new one for me. I will be anxious to learn what you find out. Blood transfusions can provide a very positive boost sometimes and even jump-start weakened bone marrow that is still functioning. Other times, for some cats, not even a blood transfusion can overcome the negative effects the virus is having. BT's are not a cure for destroyed bone marrow, merely a treatment which can buy some crashing FeLV+ cats a bit more time. As expensive as it is, and considering the stress involved with anesthesia (which is enough to overwhelm some cats and take them out), it doesn't seem that BT's are something one can realistically continue to do on a regular, onging basis. I've heard other list members say their vets didn't recommend repeated transfusions as a viable option, that a positive result was less likely with successive BT's, but no
