Re: [Felvtalk] Advice on 9 month old FELV + kitty
Thanks for the advice MC. --- On Tue, 4/7/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Advice on 9 month old FELV + kitty To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 10:07 PM my cats, negative or positive, like a slurry of yogurt AND pumpkin. winn feline foundation just sent out something about early research on the efficacy of probiotics for cats--shows what could be expected, that they DO seem to favorably impact the immune system, but accurate dosages and compounds not yet ascertained. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] supplements for Grr
I can't remember how old you said that Grr is but I foster lots of very thin cats for the local shelter. At first I used canned kitten food alot for extra calories but with respect to an older (+10 years) cat, my vet said that the high protein content in kitten food was not good for an older cat's kidneys. Although you aren't interested in useless calories, for very thin cats, I supplement with some Nutrical which you can get at the Pet store cheaper than from a vet, several times a day. My experience has been that Nutrical is something of an appetite stimulant. Or maybe it works that once an emaciated cat starts getting a threshold level of calories, their appetite starts to kick in again. After looking at the calorie content of foods and trying lots of things, I usually feed Hill's A/D (from the vet) which isn't so extra high in calories but is apparently very digestible and high in nutrition, Nutrical, and meat baby food as a supplemental treat to start putting weight on cats. Extra bits of nice chicken or other meat in between meals can also be a help. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help?
i think that both the aafp and winn feline foundation's papers/guidelines are listed under Management of Retroviruses--if you search the archives, you should find the exact links as i tend to send them often, but i've just moved, and can't even find stuff packed on the computer, no less in boxes. (and the aafp has this nasty little habit of changing link addresses--but their whole site is useful, so i never mind just wandering through all the categories.) to my mind, tho, the fact that the merck uses the same figures that have been long known in our underground is the most important development in years--it's MUCH harder for the 'professionals' to scoff at that. of course, first we have to get them to READ the current merck MC On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Thanks for this, MC, I need references sometimes. This is great. Gloria On Apr 7, 2009, at 7:56 PM, MaryChristine wrote: avia, please tell your vet to look up FeLV in the merck manual The Merck Veterinary Manual -Feline Leukemia Virus and Related Diseases: Introduction http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/57000.htmword=feline%2cleukemia , where it states that 70% of exposed healthy adult cats will NOT stay infected even if they do get the virus for awhile--that their immune systems will process the virus out of their systems. you might also want to ask the vet to show you one case of a vaccinated negative cat getting the virus from a positive--many FeLV parents have been looking for that documentation for at least seven years that i know of, and, surprise!--we haven't found it. (we've found cases where cats who were only tested once, not taking the exposure period into consideration, who did test positive after originally testing negative, but NO cases of doubly-tested negative cats who were vaccinated turning positive.) two other good sites for CURRENT information on VETERINARY guidelines for dealing with cats with FeLV (which will give owners accurate info, as well) can be found at the american assn of feline practitioners' site ( www.catvets.com), and at the winn feline foundation's site ( www.winnfelinehealth.org.) sadly, as you are learning, vets are NOT the best source for information on the three Fs: FeLV, FIV and FIP. everyone, go put your vet's name and contact info into belinda's database! www.adopt.bemikitties.com MC , On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:36 PM, James Rauscher jamesna...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you everyone for your advice. Lisa, you are the best! I have ordered the Vetri-DMG for Onyx, and I am going to ask the more positive vet (when he gets back from vacation) to give me the interferon as well. I am going to talk to him about trying to make some sort of arrangement about bringing Onyx in when I need to without having to wait weeks for an appointment. I may not be able to, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right? Does anyone here know of a vet in NYC that has a positive approach to managing FelV? Thanks again, Avia Onyx ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue ( www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] ok, interferon question here
My guy is a very big (15.5 lb) FeLV+. he's supposed to be taking interferon on a week and off a week. It has gotten to the point that now after about 3 days on, he seems to feel bad, he curls up and won't leave the bed all day and won't eat. I stop the interferon and he's good to go again within 24 hours. My vet just insists that there's no corrolation. I'm fairly new at this cat thing since he's only lived with me for 2 years and I have ZERO cat experience prior to that time. But I swear there's a corrolation. Do I stop the interferon or do I keep on? BTW I just started giving him vetricine as my dog is on that for her immune issues (the cat vet (who is a cat specialist) doesn't know about that :-) and I now have the cat on the lysine powder , that comes from the vet, all the time as he would have runny eyes and sneezing and I'd give it, then he'd clear up and the vet would say stop, and then he'd start again. So now I just leave him on it (vet doesn't know that either :-) my vet bills ran so high last year that I am trying to do a few things for myself rather than taking him in every time he sneezes or doesn't eat. So anyone have any similar experience with interferon? Sidney and the General ** Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help?
Thank you for the info, MC! Onyx's IFA test came up positive - do you know if cats who are positive on that test ever revert to negative? Also, some vets say that vaccinated cats always show up positive on later tests (because of the vax), but two of them said that vaccinated cats do not show up positive on the IFA test unless they actually have the virus. Can anyone clarify that for me? Avia ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help?
yes, it is possible for a cat who tests positive on the IFA to test negative later on, but it is MUCH less likely. depends on two things, as far as i can tell, on two things: initially, the same thing that holds for retesting with the ELISSA: it can take up to 120 days for the antigens to the virus to work their way out of the cat's system and after a positive test, to be negative on a second ELISSA test (or on an IFA--they test for the same thing, just in a different form), so if you perform an IFA too soon after an ELISSA, it's just gonna be reacting to the same antigens. that's why we emphasize the need to WAIT for the exposure period to pass--i don't trust a second test until after 120 days, unless i know for sure when the last possible exposure was. in some cases, and this is the research citation i can't find, tho it used to be in an older version of the merck, is that one cat didn't test negative on an IFA until seven or eight months after his first test! we just don't know enough generally, however, if a kitty tests positive on the IFA AFTER the 120-day period, in the vast majority of cases, it will remain positive. just today i started looking for more information that was mentioned in november about the newest research showing that some cats can remain positive without ever progressing to symptoms, AND not remaining contagious. as i say all the time, we just do NOT know enough, because for too many years, the main mode of treatment was euthanasia, which makes it very difficult to do research. you have to have a living population to learn anything, after all. (and yes, it takes up to 120 days for the antigens to show up on the ELISSA/IFA, as well, so a NEGATIVE test doesn't mean a thing either, but look at how few cats who test negative ever end up positive. some do, sadly, but the vast majority never do. ) MC On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:28 PM, James Rauscher jamesna...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you for the info, MC! Onyx's IFA test came up positive - do you know if cats who are positive on that test ever revert to negative? Also, some vets say that vaccinated cats always show up positive on later tests (because of the vax), but two of them said that vaccinated cats do not show up positive on the IFA test unless they actually have the virus. Can anyone clarify that for me? Avia ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help?
I know there are some who say they have cats that were IFA positive and are now negative, I would say it is a rare thing. The FeLV vaccine has no effect on the ELISA or the IFA test. It is the FIV vaccine that will make a cat test positive for FIV. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of James Rauscher Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 4:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help? Thank you for the info, MC! Onyx's IFA test came up positive - do you know if cats who are positive on that test ever revert to negative? Also, some vets say that vaccinated cats always show up positive on later tests (because of the vax), but two of them said that vaccinated cats do not show up positive on the IFA test unless they actually have the virus. Can anyone clarify that for me? Avia ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ok, interferon question here
Hey Sidney and The General, There are different protocols for low dose oral (not injected) interferon alpha, none of which has been proven that I know of. One is 3 days on and 3 off. Another is 7 on, 7 off. Another is daily. Vets of course are very individual in their attitude and treatment of FELV cats. I've done daily most of the time - but I only give 1/2 to 1cc. I'm wondering how much you're giving? Hope this helps - Gloria On Apr 8, 2009, at 4:26 PM, souther...@aol.com wrote: My guy is a very big (15.5 lb) FeLV+. he's supposed to be taking interferon on a week and off a week. It has gotten to the point that now after about 3 days on, he seems to feel bad, he curls up and won't leave the bed all day and won't eat. I stop the interferon and he's good to go again within 24 hours. My vet just insists that there's no corrolation. I'm fairly new at this cat thing since he's only lived with me for 2 years and I have ZERO cat experience prior to that time. But I swear there's a corrolation. Do I stop the interferon or do I keep on? BTW I just started giving him vetricine as my dog is on that for her immune issues (the cat vet (who is a cat specialist) doesn't know about that :-) and I now have the cat on the lysine powder , that comes from the vet, all the time as he would have runny eyes and sneezing and I'd give it, then he'd clear up and the vet would say stop, and then he'd start again. So now I just leave him on it (vet doesn't know that either :-) my vet bills ran so high last year that I am trying to do a few things for myself rather than taking him in every time he sneezes or doesn't eat. So anyone have any similar experience with interferon? Sidney and the General ** Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help?
gary, it truly has to do with nothing more than the issue of exposure time and time needed for the virus to be neutralized by the body: both the ELISSA and IFA test for antigens, NOT antibodies. test with ifa at same time as ELISSA, and you'll get the same result. test two weeks later, and you'll still probably get a positive result, because you haven't given kitty's system time to have processed the virus out. a positive IFA after 4 months however, is a totally different story--probably high, high 90s chance of being a true positive in that case. but there's a big difference between a retest at two weeks and four months, and that's what we have to emphasize. some research says that you can reliably retest after 30 days, but most says 90 to 120 days. many sanctuaries, and individual FeLV parents, who didn't know that retesting was necessary, have found that their positive cats actually aren't, often upon routine testing years later while trying to rule out something else. you can't trust a single ELISSA, and an IFA run too early is just as inaccurate in that it'll produce the same result. i don't know/understand the science enough to explain why there isn't a test that uses antibodies to confirm or refute positivity with FeLV--in europe, the western blot, which does test for antibodies, is used for FeLV as well as for FIV. anyone know why we don't use that here??? i'm sure there are some specific drawbacks, but if we could test for antibodies to FeLV, we could at least get a definite yes or no MC On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: I know there are some who say they have cats that were IFA positive and are now negative, I would say it is a rare thing. The FeLV vaccine has no effect on the ELISA or the IFA test. It is the FIV vaccine that will make a cat test positive for FIV. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of James Rauscher Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 4:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Interferon and Vetri-DMG - do these things help? Thank you for the info, MC! Onyx's IFA test came up positive - do you know if cats who are positive on that test ever revert to negative? Also, some vets say that vaccinated cats always show up positive on later tests (because of the vax), but two of them said that vaccinated cats do not show up positive on the IFA test unless they actually have the virus. Can anyone clarify that for me? Avia ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ok, interferon question here
many vets think that all cats should be on lysine all the time, symptomatic or not, to prevent the spread and outbreaks of herpes. i wouldn't bother worrying about that one! and just because MOST cats might not react to any particular drug, it doesn't mean that yours isn't doing so--if this continues with him getting sluggish and sickly each time with the protocol he's on, you might need to remind your vet about that fact MOST cats don't have vaccine reactions, or topical-flea-product reactions, or or or MC On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Hey Sidney and The General, There are different protocols for low dose oral (not injected) interferon alpha, none of which has been proven that I know of. One is 3 days on and 3 off. Another is 7 on, 7 off. Another is daily. Vets of course are very individual in their attitude and treatment of FELV cats. I've done daily most of the time - but I only give 1/2 to 1cc. I'm wondering how much you're giving? Hope this helps - Gloria On Apr 8, 2009, at 4:26 PM, souther...@aol.com wrote: My guy is a very big (15.5 lb) FeLV+. he's supposed to be taking interferon on a week and off a week. It has gotten to the point that now after about 3 days on, he seems to feel bad, he curls up and won't leave the bed all day and won't eat. I stop the interferon and he's good to go again within 24 hours. My vet just insists that there's no corrolation. I'm fairly new at this cat thing since he's only lived with me for 2 years and I have ZERO cat experience prior to that time. But I swear there's a corrolation. Do I stop the interferon or do I keep on? BTW I just started giving him vetricine as my dog is on that for her immune issues (the cat vet (who is a cat specialist) doesn't know about that :-) and I now have the cat on the lysine powder , that comes from the vet, all the time as he would have runny eyes and sneezing and I'd give it, then he'd clear up and the vet would say stop, and then he'd start again. So now I just leave him on it (vet doesn't know that either :-) my vet bills ran so high last year that I am trying to do a few things for myself rather than taking him in every time he sneezes or doesn't eat. So anyone have any similar experience with interferon? Sidney and the General ** Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
