Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
Hi Belinda,

I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only stories I've 
heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a lot more good ones out 
there, that's why I'm asking).  Your story keeps me wondering if I should try 
it despite the warnings.  I'm so glad you had these results with Epogen.  I 
actually had the vet research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat 
because of your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why it could 
possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making erythropoietin just 
fine on it's own.  That's not to say it has never helped.  She has heard of 
cases but said there is no biological/medical reason it should help .  Does 
anybody know how or why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia?

I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not flat out 
lying.  She is a highly recommended internal med from Cornell University.  She 
has been absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've asked her 
about extensively.  When I asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research 
it because she did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats 
without.  I did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within 
hundreds of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and 
treats cats with it regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even seen a 
positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've lost one cat after 
another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after another, have never been 
able to bring one back from nonregenerative anemia.  My cat that is currently 
being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his own 6 months after being 
diagnosed.  I don't believe that would be the case
 without her help.  I totally understand people on here feeling that most vets 
know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time 
and effort trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job for this 
cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is flat out lying to me or 
doesn't know how to use Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was 
nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it 
might ruffle some feathers.  I just couldn't at least throw it out there 
because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up how 
quickly this disease can take down a positive cat.  I really think each person 
needs to do what they are comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what 
I heard on the off chance it is accurate.

I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.

Amy

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:

 From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
    Amy,
   This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it
 correctly.
 
 It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that
 reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue
 to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't
 high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard
 dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume the
 cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are terrified
 of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it
 isn't working you would be right back where you started. 
 It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall
 into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer
 of use for this to happen.
 
 I know many, many people who have used it and only know of
 one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly
 don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't
 getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are CRF
 but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
 something else.
 
 I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive,
 he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to
 try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly
 it has been so long I can't remember.  He did not have
 kidney disease.
 
 By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had
 gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took
 about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little
 quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was
 still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of
 pancreatic cancer.
 
 You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go
 high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no
 problems with the epogen.
 
 My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had
 luck with it.
 
 -- 
 Belinda
 happiness is being owned by cats ...
 
 http://bemikitties.com
 
 http://BelindaSauro.com
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
   I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but what exactly is she 
basing her information that FeLV+'s have such a bad experience with 
using epogen, because I have not heard of any studies that have been 
done on this to bear that out and if there is one I would like the 
reference so I can look into it and give it to my vet.


Amy never be afraid to say anything on this list, all I am saying is 
that in my experience your vets information is incorrect about the use 
of epogen.   Both from other people experiences that I know of that have 
FeLV+'s and from my vets experiences.


And there isn't a lot of information out there because most vets won't 
even try it and I am not lying when I say most vets are terrified of 
epogen in general and have no idea how to use it because in vet school 
they are taught that 30% or better of cats using it will have an adverse 
reaction to it.  That is old information and most vets who actually use 
it on a regular basis, mostly on CRF cats say that number is closer to 
10% or less and only after 5 months or longer of use.


And everyone here knows I have no love for Cornell, their information 
about FeLV had always been outdated and in my opinion inaccurate.  And 
years ago when most vets knew little to nothing about FeLV, their 
outdated information caused many positive, healthy cats their lives 
since they were then the only veterinary site with the most info out 
there about FeLV+, no matter it was inaccurate.


I see they have updated their info, still not perfect in my eyes but 
much better than it was years ago when people were freaking out about it:


This statement however is contradictory:

*Secondary viremia*, a later stage characterized by persistent 
infection of the bone marrow and other tissue. If FeLV infection 
progresses to this stage it has passed a point of no return: the 
overwhelming majority of cats with secondary viremia will be infected 
for the remainder of their lives.


It says it is to the point of no return but *ONLY the majority of cats* 
will remain infected for the remainder of their lives, doesn't add up, 
if it is to the point of no return then *ALL of those cats* would be 
infected the remainder of their lives.  Guess they got to cover their 
butts in case a cat does fight off secondary viremia.  I have heard of 
one cat that did but have no proof so can't say it has or hasn't happened.


*This is on their website:*
There is no scientific evidence that alternative, immunomodulator, or 
antiviral medications have any positive benefits on the health or 
longevity of healthy infected cats.


*Why is that?*

In my opinion because they won't spend the money to do those tests, but 
if you talk with many people using one or another of these treatments 
most are having good results, so since there isn't scientific evidence 
because no studies have been done, well I personally will go with people 
with positives that have experience using these types of treatments, but 
if you tell anyone at Cornell that, I'm pretty sure they will poo poo it 
and tell you it is a waste of your time and money.


*And this is my way of thinking and only my opinion.*  If my furkid has 
something that IS going to kill them if I do nothing, *or if what I am 
trying isn't working*, but there is something I can try that may work 
... I am going to try it.  If the options are for sure death and 
possible life, I'm going for the possible life, the out come is going to 
be the same if it doesn't work, but if there is a 1% chance it may work, 
I'm going for that 1% chance.  And thank god my vet knows me well enough 
to know that.  Now if she strongly feels that what I want to do is going 
to hurt my furkid she will argue with me but if she can't convince me, 
she knows I will go somewhere else to find a vet that will work with 
me.  If she can convince me then I won't do it.


My vet isn't perfect and she has made mistakes and there have been times 
when I didn't go with my gut and to be honest one of those times was 
when I felt Bailey had pancreatitis because of how he was acting when I 
fed him.  I asked my vet if it were possible and she said no she didn't 
think so because his gloucose and amylese didn't bear that out, well it 
doesn't always affect those values and in Baileys case my NOT insisting 
on a specific pancreatitis test probably cost him his life, because he 
died from pancreatic cancer, so he probably did have pancreatitis and 
left untreated it turned into cancer, and if that isn't the case that 
not treating it would have kept it from turning into cancer, if the 
cancer was already there at the very least doing the pancreatitis test 
would almost certainly have found the cancer and we could have treated it.


So I am sorry if I am coming off so strongly but if I can save one life 
because of the mistakes I made with Bailey it is worth it to me.


No vet is right 100% of the time and anyone who thinks they are is 
asking for trouble, my vet was wrong 

Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
Here is some good info on anemia, it is from the CRF site but it 
explains some of the blood work results of an anemic cat and what they 
mean and anemia is anemia:


http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#reticulocytes

--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Hotmail Junk

Amy,
Never give up and try everything you can. We were told our cat had 2  
weeks to live  that was 1.5 years ago! He is FeLV negative now,  
however we deal with the anemia.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote:


Hi Belinda,

I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of the only  
stories I've heard with positive results (not to say there aren't a  
lot more good ones out there, that's why I'm asking).  Your story  
keeps me wondering if I should try it despite the warnings.  I'm so  
glad you had these results with Epogen.  I actually had the vet  
research WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of  
your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why it could  
possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally making  
erythropoietin just fine on it's own.  That's not to say it has  
never helped.  She has heard of cases but said there is no  
biological/medical reason it should help .  Does anybody know how or  
why it might help a cat with nonregenerative anemia?


I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most likely not  
flat out lying.  She is a highly recommended internal med from  
Cornell University.  She has been absolutely wonderful and has  
researched everything I've asked her about extensively.  When I  
asked her about Epogen she didn't have to research it because she  
did have experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats without.  I  
did A LOT of searching of all the medical facilities within hundreds  
of miles to find a specialist that actually deals with leukemia and  
treats cats with it regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even  
seen a positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've lost  
one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying one thing after  
another, have never been able to bring one back from nonregenerative  
anemia.  My cat that is currently being treated by Cornell is stable  
and holding his own 6 months after being diagnosed.  I don't believe  
that would be the case
without her help.  I totally understand people on here feeling that  
most vets know nothing about leukemia but I just wanted to say that  
I spent A LOT of time and effort trying to locate a vet that would  
do the best possible job for this cat and it stings a bit to hear  
somebody say she is flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use  
Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was nervous about  
saying anything about my fears of Epogen because I thought it might  
ruffle some feathers.  I just couldn't at least throw it out there  
because I personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up  
how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat.  I really  
think each person needs to do what they are comfortable with and I  
just wanted to throw out what I heard on the off chance it is  
accurate.


I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.

Amy

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:


From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
   Amy,
  This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using it
correctly.

It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and that
reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would continue
to go down, in some cases this is because the dose isn't
high enough, a few kitties need higher than the standard
dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume the
cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are terrified
of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if it
isn't working you would be right back where you started.
It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would fall
into this category and of those it takes 5 months or longer
of use for this to happen.

I know many, many people who have used it and only know of
one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I honestly
don't think that was the problem, I think that cat wasn't
getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are CRF
but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
something else.

I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was positive,
he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I decided to
try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but honestly
it has been so long I can't remember.  He did not have
kidney disease.

By the time we got the epogen in it took a few days, he had
gone to 18% and once we started it went down to 15%, it took
about 6 weeks to get his HCT to 40% which is a little
quicker than you would like but he was fine and his HCT was
still normal at 33%, 34% 5 months later when he died of
pancreatic cancer.

You do have to monitor the blood pressure because it can go
high, Bailey's did the opposite and got low but we had no
problems with the epogen.

My vet has used it several times with FeLV+ cats and had
luck with it.

--
Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...


[Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread LauraM
Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very quickly 
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for her and now 
she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws and then Baby 
Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could it have been 
the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her. Please, if 
anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with it, maybe 
made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I have to know 
whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Barb Moermond
Oh Laura, I am so sorry.  I highly doubt that the LTCI was a contributing 
factor, but I'm not a vet.  Some kitties' bodies just can't handle those drugs 
and she might have had an underlying problem with her heart that contributed.  
I firmly believe that you did NOT kill Bridget; you are a fabulous meowmie and 
gave her love and help others wouldn't have.  She slipped away peacefully, 
unaware and that isn't a bad thing; sometimes we can't give our furkids a 
peaceful passing.

{{{Laura
 Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito


My cat the clown:  paying no mind to whom he should impress.  Merely living 
his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. 
- Anonymous





From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 3:45:50 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very quickly 
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for her and now 
she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws and then Baby 
Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could it have been 
the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her. Please, if 
anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with it, maybe 
made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I have to know 
whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Sara Kasteleyn
Laura...you did not do this.  Please do not blame yourself.  

I'm fairly new to this list and I know others will have better insight than
I.  I can only share that one of my two positives turned blue under
anesthesia for neutering.  In our case, they were able to bring him back
quickly, but I think more animals are lost during spay/neuter procedures
than is common knowledge.  

We discovered Taj was FeLV positive in the pre-op bloodwork.  His sister,
Rani, also tested positive when we took her to be spayed a week later.  She
didn't have the same adverse reaction to the anesthesia as her brother, but
I know that because of his very near death experience, the vet staff was
extremely cautious with her.

None of this helps you with the terrible pain of losing Bridget.  I am so
very sorry.  She knew she was dearly loved, and you know that all of us
grieve with you.

Sara

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of LauraM
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very quickly
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for her and
now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws and then
Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could it have
been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her.
Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with
it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I
have to know whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Hotmail Junk
I am so sorry Laura!!! I highly doubt it was the LTCI. You are in my  
prayers?


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 1:45 PM, LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com wrote:

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very  
quickly under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done  
anything for her and now she's dead. It has been a miserable few  
weeks with Frosty Paws and then Baby Girl but this has broken my  
heart. She was doing so well. Could it have been the LTCI? I have to  
know whether I'm responsible for killing her. Please, if anyone  
knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with it, maybe  
made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I  
have to know whether I killed my cat.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Cougar Clan
Not really.  When I took Dixie to be spayed (we found out later-- 
before surgery--that she had already been spayed) there were detailed  
discussions about stress and FeLV+ cats and which was more stressful,  
surgery or going through heat at least twice a year.  And my vets  
were not in favor of euthanizing any healthy cat whether she was FeLV+  
or not.  They laid it on the line including her possible problems and  
less than lengthy life and, more importantly, how she was very healthy  
then.  They feel, and I agree, that all the cards should be on the  
table.  My regular vets were 2 1/2 hours away from the two little ones  
who left this world.  They suspect that there were underlying issues.

On Mar 17, 2010, at 4:00 PM, LauraM wrote:

It wasn't my regular vet  - it was the spay/neuter vet who comes to  
the shelter where I work. He's altered many of my cats and they've  
all come through fine. But this vet also thinks all cats with FeLV  
should be euthanized. He's entitled to his opinion. But it was odd  
this morning when I dropped her off - he said You know, this can  
stress out a cat with leukemia  bring on symptoms. I'm just letting  
you know so you don't blame me if something happens. Well, yeah, we  
all know you need to keep these cats away from stress. How many cats  
have I had spayed or neutered with FeLV  they've been OK? Does this  
sound suspicious or what?


--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:52 PM


I am so sorry for you loss. You did not kill your cat. You were being
responsible to have her spayed. Your vet knew her history--please do  
not
beat yourself up. I wish there were more words to help. Please know  
you are

not to blame yourself.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of LauraM
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very  
quickly
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for  
her and
now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws  
and then
Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could  
it have

been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her.
Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to  
do with
it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me  
know, I

have to know whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Frank Sue Koren
I'm so sorry about Bridget.  We lost a cat that was being spayed once, the 
vet said it was her heart.
I am SO sure it was not your fault.  All of us that are responsible cat 
owners have our cats spayed and neutered. There is no other good choice, 
especially with a positive cat.  We all know that going into heat and 
everything to do with mating puts stress on a cat that is even worse for a 
positive cat.  Please do not blame yourself when you were just doing what 
you thought was best for her.

Sue
- Original Message - 
From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:45 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead


Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very 
quickly under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for 
her and now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws 
and then Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. 
Could it have been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for 
killing her. Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had 
something to do with it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under, 
please let me know, I have to know whether I killed my cat.

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[Felvtalk] Casper Epogen shot

2010-03-17 Thread Frank Sue Koren
I just gave Casper his first Epogen shot.  He is supposed to get .15 ml daily 
to start.  Hopefully things will get better for him.  Tomorrow I am supposed to 
pick up the Imulan and give him that shot. 
 I am shocked at how expensive all this stuff is.  The one vial of Epogen was 
about  $75.00 at Walgreens and it only has enough for three shots! the Imulan 
is going to be even more. Does anyone know of a kitty drug discount store?
Sue
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Beth
Oh Laura I am so sorry. You have truly had an awful time lately. Please don't 
blame yourself. I've had a couple kitties die under anesthesia. It has usually 
been their heart. 
You are such a wonderful person to take in these kitties  have done so much 
more than most people would have. Unfortunately having these kitties takes a 
horrible toll on our hearts. My thoughts are with you. 

Beth
Dont Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org   

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:45 PM

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very quickly 
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for her and now 
she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws and then Baby 
Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could it have been 
the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her. Please, if 
anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with it, maybe 
made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I have to know 
whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Laurieskatz
Laura, sending healing thoughts, energy and prayers to you. You did right by
these kitties. There are so many things we cannot control. You gave them
love and they had a better life with you than they would have had
otherwise...even though brief. Godspeed, sweet Bridget. 

My beloved Keisha, (age unknown, FeLv-) was my kitty for 10 years. One day
she was having trouble breathing. I took her to the ER. The vet told me he
wanted to give her some oxygen and that she would be fine. He told me to
come back in 2 hours. He called me an hour later and said she died. I had so
many questions and guilt and then some days later I realized my guilt and
the answers to my questions would not bring her back and I did the best I
could.  
I did request a necropsy and did learn her cause of death (congestive heart
failure. I also learned she had beginning stage lung cancer). Knowing what
she died of did provide some measure of comfort but didn't change things.

My best,
Laurie 

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:51 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Oh Laura I am so sorry. You have truly had an awful time lately. Please
don't blame yourself. I've had a couple kitties die under anesthesia. It has
usually been their heart. 
You are such a wonderful person to take in these kitties  have done so much
more than most people would have. Unfortunately having these kitties takes a
horrible toll on our hearts. My thoughts are with you. 

Beth
Dont Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org   

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:45 PM

Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she died very quickly
under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done anything for her and
now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with Frosty Paws and then
Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so well. Could it have
been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for killing her.
Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had something to do with
it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under, please let me know, I
have to know whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread LauraM
This really bothers me. For the past week I've had an awful premonition that I 
shouldn't spay her, that she would die during surgery. I had a bad, bad 
feeling. No reason behind it, the thought just kept intruding. I ignored it and 
figured I was just worrying too much. It reminds me of something that happened 
a few years back. I had a day off in the middle of the week, it was springtime, 
 I decided I would go to a nature preserve near my house to look for 
salamanders. Anyway, about a week before I planned to go, I began seeing a 
newspaper headline in my head: Hiker finds body in woods.  The feeling was 
very disturbing and very, very strong. The day of my little trip came, and I 
was so freaked out I didn't go. A few days later I opened up the paper and what 
did I see? Hiker finds body in woods. At the nature preserve I planned to 
visit. In the very same spot I thought I'd find salamanders. It was a mentally 
ill man who had suffered from an
 apparent heart attack and died. 
This time I didn't trust my gut and look what happened. It is my fault.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Sharyl
Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF or FeLV kitty though I have had both with 
anemia.  

There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer some of your questions 
about the risks of using epogen or Darbepoetin.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/

I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and Folic Acid) to manage 
chronic anemia. 

I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin but the bone marrow 
is not responding then giving epogen shots would not be beneficial.  I have not 
heard it called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing 
erythropoietin.  
Sharyl

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 9:00 AM
 Hi Belinda,
 
 I do know Bailey's story well and honestly you are one of
 the only stories I've heard with positive results (not to
 say there aren't a lot more good ones out there, that's why
 I'm asking).  Your story keeps me wondering if I should
 try it despite the warnings.  I'm so glad you had these
 results with Epogen.  I actually had the vet research
 WHY it could possibly help a leuk positive cat because of
 your story.  I can't find one vet that can explain why
 it could possibly help since a leuk positive cat is normally
 making erythropoietin just fine on it's own.  That's
 not to say it has never helped.  She has heard of cases
 but said there is no biological/medical reason it should
 help .  Does anybody know how or why it might help a
 cat with nonregenerative anemia?    
 
 I just want to say that the vet that told me this is most
 likely not flat out lying.  She is a highly recommended
 internal med from Cornell University.  She has been
 absolutely wonderful and has researched everything I've
 asked her about extensively.  When I asked her about
 Epogen she didn't have to research it because she did have
 experience with it, with cats with CRF and cats
 without.  I did A LOT of searching of all the medical
 facilities within hundreds of miles to find a specialist
 that actually deals with leukemia and treats cats with it
 regularly.  Many vets in my area have never even seen a
 positive cat other than the ones they euthanize.  I've
 lost one cat after another to leukemia and despite trying
 one thing after another, have never been able to bring one
 back from nonregenerative anemia.  My cat that is
 currently being treated by Cornell is stable and holding his
 own 6 months after being diagnosed.  I don't believe
 that would be the case
  without her help.  I totally understand people on
 here feeling that most vets know nothing about leukemia but
 I just wanted to say that I spent A LOT of time and effort
 trying to locate a vet that would do the best possible job
 for this cat and it stings a bit to hear somebody say she is
 flat out lying to me or doesn't know how to use
 Epogen.  Anyways, I don't post on here a lot and was
 nervous about saying anything about my fears of Epogen
 because I thought it might ruffle some feathers.  I
 just couldn't at least throw it out there because I
 personally would feel awful if I did something to speed up
 how quickly this disease can take down a positive cat. 
 I really think each person needs to do what they are
 comfortable with and I just wanted to throw out what I heard
 on the off chance it is accurate.
 
 I'd love to hear from others that have tried Epogen too.
 
 Amy
 
 --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 wrote:
 
  From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
     Amy,
    This vet is either flat out lying or isn't using
 it
  correctly.
  
  It is very rare but a cat can have a reaction and
 that
  reaction is that it wouldn't help and the HCT would
 continue
  to go down, in some cases this is because the dose
 isn't
  high enough, a few kitties need higher than the
 standard
  dose.  But of course the vets freak out and assume
 the
  cat is having a reaction.  So many vets are
 terrified
  of this drug and it doesn't make sense, basically if
 it
  isn't working you would be right back where you
 started. 
  It is documented that about 10% to 30% of cats would
 fall
  into this category and of those it takes 5 months or
 longer
  of use for this to happen.
  
  I know many, many people who have used it and only
 know of
  one cat that is was suspected had this happen and I
 honestly
  don't think that was the problem, I think that cat
 wasn't
  getting a high enough dose.  Most of these cats are
 CRF
  but a few aren't and were anemic because of cancer or
  something else.
  
  I've told Bailey's story more than once, he was
 positive,
  he became anemic and once his HCT got to 20%, I
 decided to
  try epogen, I think he was barely regenerative but
 honestly
  it has been so 

Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Sharyl
Laura, I am so sorry to read about Bridget.  We do the best we can with the 
knowledge we have.  Normally it is best to have any kitty spayed/neutered.  
Unfortunately there is always a risk with anesthesia.  
My heart goes out to you.
Sharyl

 --- On Wed, 3/17/10, LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:45 PM
 
 Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she
 died very quickly
 under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done
 anything for her and
 now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with
 Frosty Paws and then
 Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so
 well. Could it have
 been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for
 killing her.
 Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had
 something to do with
 it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under,
 please let me know, I
 have to know whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Laurieskatz
Laura, you are obviously blessed with strong intuitive thought.  
I am so sorry that you are having these feelings that Bridget's passing is
your fault. I know you will trust your gut in the future. For now, please
try to forgive yourself. When I don't act or do act in opposition to my gut
and something bad happens, all I can do is learn to listen better the next
time. That is ALL I can do at that point. I have so many regrets about not
doing what, in hindsight, I think I should have, but I cannot live there or
it will kill me or make me sick.
Bridget needs your positive energy to get where she is going. I am sending
energy to you.for some peace in your heart and for self forgiveness.
God bless you. You did what you thought was the right thing.
Laurie

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of LauraM
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:17 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

This really bothers me. For the past week I've had an awful premonition that
I shouldn't spay her, that she would die during surgery. I had a bad, bad
feeling. No reason behind it, the thought just kept intruding. I ignored it
and figured I was just worrying too much. It reminds me of something that
happened a few years back. I had a day off in the middle of the week, it was
springtime,  I decided I would go to a nature preserve near my house to
look for salamanders. Anyway, about a week before I planned to go, I began
seeing a newspaper headline in my head: Hiker finds body in woods.  The
feeling was very disturbing and very, very strong. The day of my little trip
came, and I was so freaked out I didn't go. A few days later I opened up the
paper and what did I see? Hiker finds body in woods. At the nature
preserve I planned to visit. In the very same spot I thought I'd
find salamanders. It was a mentally ill man who had suffered from an
 apparent heart attack and died. 
This time I didn't trust my gut and look what happened. It is my fault.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Sally Davis
Laura,

I am very sorry. I hope your guily will ease up. You did everything right.
Bridget knows you love her.

Sally

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angel), Lionel(angel),Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread janine paton
Hey Laura, 

Your subject line really caught me - I've recently lost a cat named Bridget and 
she was the best, smartest cat.  Bridget is a wonderful  name and thank god she 
had one.  I don't know what LTCI is and am hoping someone explains it.  

I relocated a feral cat named Molly to my yard and for years, she did really 
well, never leaving.  She loved to hang out with us on our deck.  Then she 
found a friend, followed him, got hit by car.  Her beautiful face was smashed 
and there was no doubt she died instantly, but still, I had to have a vet 
listen for her heart hours later, to be sure, even  tho it was so obvious she 
was gone.  Looking back, I think my asking for vet to listen for heart beat was 
shock and disbelief on my part  We all blame ourselves at first when something 
so unexpected happens, it must be human nature.   
It's terribly stressful for these cats to go into heat over and over (I think 
more than twice a year) and the possibility of an infected uterus or mammary 
cancer is very real, I know, I've seen enough of it.  I hope you realize sooner 
than later you were doing what was right for Bridget, and keep on helping 
others.  

The very best to you, 

Janine   




From: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 9:41:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

Laura, I am so sorry to read about Bridget.  We do the best we can with the 
knowledge we have.  Normally it is best to have any kitty spayed/neutered.  
Unfortunately there is always a risk with anesthesia.  
My heart goes out to you.
Sharyl

 --- On Wed, 3/17/10, LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 4:45 PM
 
 Bridget is dead. I had her spayed today and apparently she
 died very quickly
 under anesthesia. She was my baby. I would have done
 anything for her and
 now she's dead. It has been a miserable few weeks with
 Frosty Paws and then
 Baby Girl but this has broken my heart. She was doing so
 well. Could it have
 been the LTCI? I have to know whether I'm responsible for
 killing her.
 Please, if anyone knows whether the LTCI could have had
 something to do with
 it, maybe made her more sensitive to being put under,
 please let me know, I
 have to know whether I killed my cat.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro

Yes it does:

But it was odd this morning when I dropped her off - he said You know, this can stress out 
a cat with leukemia  bring on symptoms. I'm just letting you know so you don't blame me if 
something happens. Well, yeah, we all know you need to keep these cats away from stress. 
How many cats have I had spayed or neutered with FeLV  they've been OK? Does this sound 
suspicious or what?


--

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happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
 Amy, I have not used epogen for a CRF
 or FeLV kitty though I have had both with anemia.  
 
 There is a Yahoo Anemia group that may be able to answer
 some of your questions about the risks of using epogen or
 Darbepoetin.
 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Anemia/

I was part of this group for quite some time but couldn't find anybody using 
Epogen, with success, for a leuk positive kitty.  
   
 I used vitamins and supplements (B12, Super B Complex and
 Folic Acid) to manage chronic anemia. 

Did you do any tests to see if the cat was low in B12 or did you just use the 
vitamins and supplements?  I have had Wolfie tested and everything is fine but 
my vet wants to check it once more (it's been a few months) at his next routine 
blood draw.  We discussed B12 injections and have discussed 
vitamins/supplements.  We are going to address this again after seeing his 
bloodwork.  

 I do agree that if the kidneys are producing erythropoietin
 but the bone marrow is not responding then giving epogen
 shots would not be beneficial.  I have not heard it
 called nonregenative anemia when the kidneys are producing
 erythropoietin.  
 Sharyl

My understanding is that erythropoietin is made and released by the kidneys.  
In a cat with damaged kidneys, sufficient erythropoietin can't be produced.  In 
a leuk positive cat with healthy kidneys, erythropoietin is still being 
produced but the bone marrow is unable to respond.  I think it's still 
nonregenerative if new red blood cells aren't being made.  Does anybody know if 
my understanding is correct here?
 



  

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Re: [Felvtalk] Casper Epogen shot

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
Sue,

Will you please keep me posted on Casper's progress?  I'd love to hear how the 
Epogen/LTCI work for you.  Good luck.

Amy

--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Frank  Sue Koren fs...@roadrunner.com wrote:

 From: Frank  Sue Koren fs...@roadrunner.com
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Casper Epogen shot
 To: FeLV talk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 7:46 PM
 I just gave Casper his first Epogen
 shot.  He is supposed to get .15 ml daily to
 start.  Hopefully things will get better for him. 
 Tomorrow I am supposed to pick up the Imulan and give him
 that shot. 
  I am shocked at how expensive all this stuff is.  The
 one vial of Epogen was about  $75.00 at Walgreens and
 it only has enough for three shots! the Imulan is going to
 be even more. Does anyone know of a kitty drug discount
 store?
 Sue
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Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?

2010-03-17 Thread Amy
Not sure if this is for me or not but Wolfie has been tested and was fine.  I 
had him on an iron supplement for several months anyways just in case it might 
help.

Amy
--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote:

 From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Epogen? Interfuron?
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 11:55 AM
 PS.  Has she tested his iron to
 see if that is low, many anemic acts are low in iron?
 
 -- 
 Belinda
 happiness is being owned by cats ...
 
 http://bemikitties.com
 
 http://BelindaSauro.com
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
Overdosing with anesthesia could easily be considered an accident.   I'm 
so sorry this happened, whatever the reason it certainly wasn't in any 
way your fault and being human we are raised to respect people in 
authority and wouldn't think a professional would purposely do harm to 
someone in their charge ... but it happens and as unsavory as it may be 
it is entirely possible this vet is a bad egg.  Being in his position of 
power he probably isn't too worried anyone is going to come after him.  
I've read enough horror stories about vets who have taken an oath to do 
no harm to our pets being monsters, it is *rare* but it does happen.  
Just out of curiosity is there any way to find out how many other 
positives he has had in his care have passed if there are any?


It may be entirely that her body just couldn't handle the procedure, the 
stress, anesthesia or some other part of it, but I would absolutely be 
suspicious knowing this vet thinks all FeLV+ cats should be euthanized 
and then saying what he said about things possibly going wrong and then 
my furkid just happens to die.  Sorry, sounds fishy to me.


There probably isn't anything that can be done except never take another 
positive cat to this vet and if it were me, I wouldn't ever take any cat 
to him for anything again.


If something was done you can rest assured it wasn't your fault in any 
way and Bridget is safe and OK where she is and if this vet did do 
something wrong, he will pay whether here or beyond, he will answer for 
all the things he did that were wrong and/or evil.


--

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happiness is being owned by cats ...

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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread LauraM
Remember the cat who I had PTS a little over a month ago, Frosty Paws? That cat 
had been neutered by the same vet, who'd wanted to euthanize him  very 
reluctantly did the surgery.



 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Casper Epogen shot

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
   Wow, I paid 65.00 for a 1ml vial, it was a 2000IU and Fred was 
getting 0.15 also, there was enough in the 1ml vial for 8 or 9 shots.  
What size is your vial, I also bought mine at Walgreens in Washington 
state.  It was only $50.00 dollars for the same size and dosage at the 
Fred Meyer pharmacy.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Casper Epogen shot

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
PS.  Why is he getting it daily the standard dosing is 0.15ml (more or 
less depending on weight), 3 times a week?


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bridget is dead

2010-03-17 Thread Belinda Sauro
Well, if he did another positive and he came through OK, then I 
would say it probably was just something that she physically wasn't able 
to handle ... maybe there was an underlying heart issue or some other 
issue that was unknown.  My sisters cat had something very similar 
happen, she was healthy as far as anyone knew but her cyst ruptured 
during surgery and she went into cardiac arrest and didn't get oxygen 
for too long, she was alive but her brain function was gone.  It killed 
my sister to give the OK for them to let her go, it was her first furkid 
and she was only 6 years old going in for a pretty much routine surgery.


It seems Bridget knew it was her time as was trying to let you know, but 
you are seeing it as guilt in not stopping something that was probably 
suppose to happen the way it did, she must have been done teaching and 
learning what she needed to here and was ready to go back to spirit.


I know it doesn't sound like I believe in these things most of the time, 
I do but I still also fight fiercely for every second of life here which 
makes it very hard to come to terms with death being a continuation of 
life in our other form, quite a war waging in me sometimes.


But please know, your premonition wasn't to make you feel like there was 
something you could do about what was probably meant to be, if she 
hadn't had the surgery and it was her time she would have passed a 
different way, sometimes there isn't anything we can do to stop life 
here from ending ... but it only ends in the physical for us left here 
which makes it seem so final when in reality we go on without 
limitations once we leave these physical bodies.


Bridget doesn't want you to feel anything but the love she still has for 
you and to know she is fine and no longer limited by the restrictions 
our physical lives put on us.  I hope she will visit you in a dream or 
some other way that will make it clear to you it is her and you can get 
comfort from that.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

http://bemikitties.com

http://BelindaSauro.com


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