Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Lorrie
You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It 
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.  

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and 
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site.

www.declawing.com -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

www.de-clawing.com

www.declaw.com

www.catscratching.com

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the 
only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
friends. 



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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
Also: http://www.*pawproject*.*org*/ http://www.pawproject.org/
 Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle,
except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws.  So it's really
like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick
up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of
your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain).

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:

 You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
 this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

 People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
 think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
 digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
 excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It
 is in fact ten different amputations!

 Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
 believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
 simple procedure.  It is NOT.

 Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
 surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
 Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
 (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
 The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and
 defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
 extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
 cases a cat will never use it's box again.

 Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
 have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

 Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
 baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
 far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
 serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

 Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
 flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
 to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
 hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
 are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
 attacker if she should get outside by accident.

 All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

 Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
 surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
 excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
 immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
 Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
 general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
 tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
 veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
 amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
 rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
 severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
 veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
 Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
 throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
 defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
 with the trash.

 Declawing Sites

 www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site.

 www.declawing.com -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
 declawing in plain English.

 www.de-clawing.com

 www.declaw.com

 www.catscratching.com

 Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the
 only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
 plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


 On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
 You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
 declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
 FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I
 also
 recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
 friends.



 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org




-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:

Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter

I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw 
my cats.  
 


 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
  
You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It 
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.  

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and 
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com     a powerful anti-declaw site.

http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

http://www.de-clawing.com/

http://www.declaw.com/

http://www.catscratching.com/

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the 
only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
    You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
    declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
    FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
    recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
    friends. 



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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it 
to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced 
passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the 
reminding information. 

 


 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
  

Also: http://www.pawproject.org/   Technically, it's like getting your fingers 
cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are 
their claws.  So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) 
cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only 
declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including 
back pain).   

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc




On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:

You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com     a powerful anti-declaw site.

http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

http://www.de-clawing.com/

http://www.declaw.com/

http://www.catscratching.com/

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the
only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
    You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
    declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
    FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
    recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
    friends.



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Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you 

Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables.  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to 
her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my 
nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy 
either.  Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found 
that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  
I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a 
vegetarian because of all the horrid
 things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I think that if 
you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is 
rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see 
your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that 
belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
 

There are several of us on this list who do not eat meat and believe that 
animals have the right to a life apart from what humans think they're here for, 
i.e. simply to feed humans or be used as a sporting event.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com wrote:


I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting season, do 
you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To each their own, 
again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the people who do purchase 
linceses as this money is put back into the wild life. The funding from 
licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy population of wildlife in the 
states, including the DNR to enforce the rules... I take it you don't eat meat 
Natalie?


From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
 

It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t really 
lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.  Next 
year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because hunting 
encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and because 
states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure that you will 
notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long run.  I have 
made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer biology/reproduction. 
 Natalie
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
 
I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as 
keeping population under control. -Joslin
 
From:Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately,
innocent bystanders
 get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the
domestic animals, even farm animals.
An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr
old kid with them, blamed it on him.  Turned out, it wasn't.

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lorrie
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a
hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a
hunter has shot his hunting buddy by
 mistake.


Lorrie

On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area
 and I keep my cats close to home.  Only Harley goes down the road, so 
 HE stays inside.  I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse.
 Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are 
 animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't they?
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

2012-10-04 Thread Sharyl
Janine, 1st thank you for helping all these cats and kittens in such a 
responsible manner.  Here is the link to a chart I have found very helpful in 
explaining testing for FeLV
http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html
 
As I understand it the IFA test requires the virus to be in the kittens bone 
marrow which takes time.  
 
Sometimes positive test are incorrect perhaps due to the handling of the test.  
Timing is very important.  If left too long before reading they will give a 
positive result for a negative cat.
 
Hope Bella tests negative next time
 
Sharyl    
 


 From: janine paton patonjan...@sbcglobal.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
  
Hello,

I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin.  Trying to find 
testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. 

I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 
30 
kittens last year and none of them tested pos.  We just took 9 kittens within a 
few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered.  There were a few 
newcomers - mostly toms. 

All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out 
to 
lab.  Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each 
other's kittens.  

A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand 
is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this!  

My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that 
doesn't 
mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos.  My thinking is that 
more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be 
positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? 

Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the 
ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. 

Looking for guidance - 

Thank you, 
Janine




- Original Message 
From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome.  Only 
Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside.  I keep hearing they are only 
animals as the excuse.  Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from 
monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them.  They are only animals arn't 
they?


 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
 I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this
 is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and
 cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a
 cat is a deer?  Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on
 small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter,
 started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his
 farm..
 
 Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all!
 
 I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in
 hell ASPA!
 
 Natalie
 
  
 
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner
 Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
 
 Friends,
 
 We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either
 humans or animals.  Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to
 end lives.  Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering
 of a companion that is truly suffering (pet).   I am a Christian and believe
 in heaven and hell and Karma.  So, until we all die,  that person who puts
 their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin
 with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to
 life.  They will have to be judged  and only the Lord will have that talk
 with them at the end of their  life.  I live in Florida and just heard about
 a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back!   They
 are trying to find the person who did it.  Trust me, I am sure if it was a
 little child or adult,  the FBI would be involved.  But because it was a
 cat,  they are doing their best. At the end of every day,  everything we
 do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends.  We can also
 voice our opinion to the government to change laws.   God  Bless America.
 Let's be positive here,  we are in America and have the opportunity to
 change anything in our power as a group.  Look in the Middle East,  killing
 everyday!   Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help
 out where you can. however,  you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up
 for the healthy animals that they put to sleep.  

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to the women 
who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant.  It wasn't that 
they turned off their reproductive system because it was a legitimate rape 
but because below a certain nutritional level, the body of a woman can't 
sustain a pregnancy and miscarries.  Deer and other wild animal populations 
regulate themselves during times when food is scarce and then grow during times 
when food is readily available.  Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all 
these darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when 
deer season arrives again.  If hunting and eating the victim is a good means of 
population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism.  Humans are soon 
going to outgrow themselves.  There are 8 billion of us infecting the planet at 
this time and if even half of those breed, we will have another 4 billion 
within a year or two..


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:14 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Bow hunting
 

Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they 
would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and 
probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the 
year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very 
differently, depending on the species.  
It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I doubt 
that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be that every 
time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – 
what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful 
animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable.  I 
started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other 
than other small groups in the area doing the same thing.  People are still not 
spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! 
 Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially 
for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
 
Does this happen with all species?
 
I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats 
bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably 
better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some used with 
wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their 
hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at 
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote:
It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a 
biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts 
go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their 
fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may 
seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) 
regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were 
available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.
The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been 
able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at 
the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring 
back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting 
licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
Hargreaves
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will 
level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite 
predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a species' 
population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up 
some of that capacity.
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:
No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to 
research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin 
or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact, predators are better 
hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, 
thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the 

Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Edna Taylor

Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I 
have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then 
she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they 
were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good 
going Mom.  That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't 
care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the 
first place and for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get 
me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is 
cruel and inhumane :( Joslin,  I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :(
Edna
 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700
From: joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw my 
cats.  
From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
   

You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It 
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.  

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is
 urinating and 
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most
 important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary
 technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site.

http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

http://www.de-clawing.com/

http://www.declaw.com/

http://www.catscratching.com/

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the 
only reason it's still
 done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering
friends. 



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[Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better now, as 
far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful 
thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, 
under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can 
make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.

I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on 
the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.

However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am 
immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than 
venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me 
of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t 
kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.

I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every 
kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  - yes, 
I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making my own 
soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

 

When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables.  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. 
 She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose 
right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  
Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had 
as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her 
I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because 
of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. 
 I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your 
belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most 
people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying 
especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!

 

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[Felvtalk] FW: Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Did your vet recommend it?  

I know that Bainfield Health, the veterinary Group with Petsmart, has a
package deal on kitten health (DUH), that includes declawing!  I wrote to
them and got a really stupid letter back - I will post it sometime - just
unbelievable!

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Joslin Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:13 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do
it to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long
sinced passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks
for the reminding information. 

 

From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

Also: http:// http://www.pawproject.org/ www.pawproject.org/
Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle,
except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws.  So it's really
like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick
up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of
your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain).   

 

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:

You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com http://stopdeclaw.com/  a powerful anti-declaw
site.

http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

http://www.de-clawing.com/

http://www.declaw.com/

http://www.catscratching.com/

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the
only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.



 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
Natalie,

The pounds/shelters have a higher profile than do rescuers.  If they
sincerely implement the No Kill Equation, they can save over 90% of their
intake, including those animals brought in or dumped by the minority of the
public that is irresponsible.  Until they do so, however, they are not a
resource for rescuers, but rather yet another burden on them (as they rely
too heavily on rescuers to bail the animals, rather than marketing them
themselves).

There are still small wild cats in Africa.  I wonder how often they go into
heat.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 *Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long
 ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered
 wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times
 throughout the year, as they do now.  It does happen to most wildlife, but
 obviously very differently, depending on the species.  *

 *It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore.  I
 doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct.  My hope would be
 that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a
 waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of
 healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds
 is unbearable.  I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think
 much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same
 thing.  People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their
 pets, and many are still total jerks!  Those of us who do rescue, are
 paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible
 behavior, because we care.*

 ** **

 *From:* Felvtalk 
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
 *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
 *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 ** **

 Does this happen with all species?

 ** **

 I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
 cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
 probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
 used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
 their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
 exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.
 

 ** **

 On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote:

 *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
 a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
 counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
 their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
 they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
 hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
 food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.**
 ***

 *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
 have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
 them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
 them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
 can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*

 *From:* Felvtalk 
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
 *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
 *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM


 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

 Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
 will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
 despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
 species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
 ones take up some of that capacity.

 On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
 According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
 hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
 predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
 while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
 healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
 by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
 animals.*

 *No, I do not eat any meat.*

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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you 

[Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
Hey guys not to get off from subject butI was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny  has 
made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that 
Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he 
has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal 
cruilty. ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Terri Brown
I think this topic should be off limits here.

Terri
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM
  Subject: [Felvtalk] President


  Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny  has 
made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that 
Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he 
has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal 
cruilty. 
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't
get killed.  After I read this, I quit eating root veggies.   On the other
hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA,
except they don't kill them.

Have you seen this book?   It may be a key to helping transition more
people away from eating meat:
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better
 now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another
 wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only
 six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was
 Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.
 

 I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is
 well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.

 However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am
 immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than
 venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing
 me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I
 shouldn’t kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.

 I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every
 kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  -
 yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making
 my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of
 store-bought.

 *From:* Felvtalk 
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
 *On Behalf Of *Lee Evans
 *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

 ** **

 When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an
 animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some
 as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others,
 ignored by still others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what
 vegetarians eat.  I ask back what did she think they ate and she said,
 Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables.  I told her that she had
 probably mistaken us for rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the
 tofu and soy protocol to her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this
 can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that
 eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  Some years later, I met her
 again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally
 had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her I was and she said
 the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the
 horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I
 think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your
 belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most
 people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying
 especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.

 ** **

  

 *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!*

 ** **


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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
Thanks, it's okay. He had FeLV and we did everything we could to keep him 
alive, he lived over four years with the disease. I was so proud of him, and 
happy that we got a chance to have him in our family.

 


 From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
  

 
Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I 
have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then 
she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they 
were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good 
going Mom.  That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't 
care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the 
first place and for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get 
me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is 
cruel and inhumane :(
 
Joslin,  I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :(

Edna
 



Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700
From: joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw


I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw 
my cats.  
 


 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
  
You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It 
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.  

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is
 urinating and 
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most
 important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary
 technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
with the trash.

Declawing Sites

www. stopdeclaw.com     a powerful anti-declaw site.

http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
declawing in plain English.

http://www.de-clawing.com/

http://www.declaw.com/

http://www.catscratching.com/

Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the 
only reason it's still
 done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.


On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
    You make a 

Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Susan
Declawing can also result in litterbox issues

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote:

 Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I 
 have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, 
 then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when 
 they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, 
 good going Mom.  That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I 
 don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done 
 it in the first place and for what? furniture?  
 pppft.  Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't 
 agree with what she did.  Declawing is cruel and inhumane :(
  
 Joslin,  I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :(
 
 Edna
  
 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700
 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
 
 I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw 
 my cats.  
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
 
 You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
 this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.
 
 People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
 think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
 digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
 excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It 
 is in fact ten different amputations!
 
 Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
 believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
 simple procedure.  It is NOT.  
 
 Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
 surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
 Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
 (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
 The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and 
 defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
 extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
 cases a cat will never use it's box again.
 
 Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
 have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.
 
 Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
 baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
 far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
 serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.
 
 Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
 flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
 to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
 hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
 are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
 attacker if she should get outside by accident.
 
 All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.
 
 Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
 surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
 excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
 immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
 Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
 general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
 tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
 veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
 amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
 rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
 severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
 veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
 Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
 throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
 defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out
 with the trash.
 
 Declawing Sites
 
 www. stopdeclaw.coma powerful anti-declaw site.
 
 http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes
 declawing in plain English.
 
 http://www.de-clawing.com/
 
 http://www.declaw.com/
 
 http://www.catscratching.com/
 
 Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the 
 only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it,
 plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is.
 
 
 On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote:
 You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and
 declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with
 FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also
 recommened them to 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
As a matter of fact I had set up an appointment with my vet for a fm cat we 
have and they offered it at a discount if i did it together. I'm going to be 
honest I don't see much of a difference from the declaw cat and the one that is 
not. As long as they have posts and one takes the time to let them know what 
they cannot do it i really don't see a need for it, and it is cruel. What I 
don't get is who started that trend, and why is it limited to cats? or do they 
do it to dogs too?

 


 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:37 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  Declaw
  

Did your vet recommend it?  
I know that Bainfield Health, the veterinary Group with Petsmart, has a 
“package deal” on kitten health (DUH), that includes declawing!  I wrote to 
them and got a really stupid letter back – I will post it sometime – just 
unbelievable!
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:13 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it 
to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced 
passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the 
reminding information. 
 
From:Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Also: http://www.pawproject.org/   Technically, it's like getting your fingers 
cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are 
their claws.  So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) 
cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only 
declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including 
back pain).   
 
Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
You declawed your cat?  I will send you some information about
this.  It is NOT a good thing to do.

People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They
think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the
digit of each toe along with the nail.  It's a very serious and
excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It
is in fact ten different amputations!

Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people
believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a
simple procedure.  It is NOT.

Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this
surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following
Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability  biting
(they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense).
The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and
defecating outside of the litter box.  The reason is that it is
extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many
cases a cat will never use it's box again.

Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who
have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons.

Here's a perfect example:  We know of a couple who, when expecting a
baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was
far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and
serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6
years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them.

Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag
flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws
to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk,
hoist her body up to a high-up perch.  Most important of all, claws
are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an
attacker if she should get outside by accident.

All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed.

Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering
surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in
excruciating pain.  Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage,
immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain.
Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under
general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A
tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The
veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each
amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly
rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are
severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a
veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood.
Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used
throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self
defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting 

Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused 
on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. 

 


 From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

  
I think this topic should be off limits here. 

Terri 
- Original Message -  
From: Joslin  Potter  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49  AM 
Subject: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Hey guys not to get off  from subject butI was interested in what everyone 
thinks about  the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one  should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for  nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he  will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture  to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However  Mitt Romeny  
has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues.  Reports also show 
that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations  from the HSUS. 
However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws  in reference 
to animal cruilty. ___
Felvtalk 
  mailing 
  list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Fruitarians – fruit fall off when ripe, eat only raw foods.  

I eat root vegetables, too much nutrition in them not to, especially beets – I 
couldn’t live without them.

There are actually people who live on energy (Hunzas) – breatherians!

 

Yes, I’ve heard of the book!  Good idea – it’s really frustrating when really 
good friends continue to eat meat, and order horrible things like veal when you 
go out with them, and then have the nerve to ask, you wanna taste it (even 
worse, forgetting that we haven’t eaten meat for almost 30 years?)  One good 
fiend never orders meat when we go out…..

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:52 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't get 
killed.  After I read this, I quit eating root veggies.   On the other hand, 
they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA, except they 
don't kill them.

 

Have you seen this book?   It may be a key to helping transition more people 
away from eating meat:  
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8
 
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan
 qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan

 

 

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better now, as 
far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful 
thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, 
under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can 
make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.

I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on 
the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.

However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am 
immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than 
venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me 
of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t 
kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.

I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every 
kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  - yes, 
I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making my own 
soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

 

When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables.  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. 
 She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose 
right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  
Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had 
as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her 
I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because 
of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. 
 I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your 
belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most 
people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying 
especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!

 


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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

 

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 

 

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

 


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: 
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ 

Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Terri Brown
I just think that there are too many varied opinions to discuss politics here.  
That's all.  There is a risk of causing offense -- we are all so very different 
people, and not all of us believe the same things.

I think that the best thing to do is to read both candidate's platform.  Decide 
which one best reflects your own personal beliefs and then vote for that person.

Off my soapbox now.

T
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so 
confused on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. 


  From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.commailto:siggies...@hotmail.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President



  I think this topic should be off limits here.

  Terri
- Original Message - 
From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] President


Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny  has 
made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that 
Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he 
has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal 
cruilty. 
___
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http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
Not sure I could make my own soy milk.  I don't much like milk with cat fur in 
it.  I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially 
or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters.  My house was not 
well organized due to a little mistake in planning.  Actually big mistake in 
planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and 
then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm 
concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about 
the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed.  Just talk against anything in the food 
industry and you've had it.  Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. 
Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able 
to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken.  Sigh.  Is this a 
wonderful country or what!  Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his 
short run for
 President.  Angels from Heaven are rarely elected.  He's a wonderful, 
thoughtful, intelligent and logical man.

I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer 
then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel 
that we need to eat animals.  We are omnivores and have a choice.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 9:36 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  Bow hunting
 

Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better now, as 
far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful 
thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, 
under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can 
make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.
I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on 
the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.
However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am 
immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than 
venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me 
of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t 
kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.
I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every 
kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  - yes, 
I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making my own 
soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
 
When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables.  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to 
her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my 
nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy 
either.  Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found 
that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  
I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a 
vegetarian because of all the horrid
 things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I think that if 
you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is 
rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see 
your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that 
belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.
 
 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!
 
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[Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:53 AMI get the same response from hostile people.  
Trees and vegetables are 
living things so you can't eat that either.  Well, I will never be seen 
munching on a tree.  I'm not a woodpecker but my idea is that I never 
eat anything that had a face or could move on feet, claws, feelers, or 
any way else. Most vegetables (except politicians) are meant to be 
eaten.  So are fruits.  When I was growing vegetables, I would allow a 
certain number of them to go to seed, to fulfill their need to 
propagate. The rest I would eat.  Humans have a choice.  Carnivorous 
species such as cats, lions, birds of prey don't have a choice so I 
wouldn't expect them to be made into vegetarians.  Unfortunately, here 
comes the problem.  If we all stop eating animals, then we won't kill 
cows, sheep, pigs and the cats won't have meat in their cat food.  But here's 
the solution.  They 
rarely have much meat in the cat food anyway.  The first ingredient in 
most store products is corn meal.  I assume that we could produce a 
balanced cat food with enough Taurine and other ingredients to satisfy 
physical needs of a carnivore like a cat if everyone in the world became 
vegetarian.  However, thinking that everyone will some day become 
vegetarian is rather unrealistic, like those people who think that if we spay 
and neuter outside cats, colony cats, etc. we will some day not 
have any more cats and dogs on Earth.  Actually, this happened in one 
city.  They picked up all the cats and killed them at the city animal 
pound.  Altogether, 2000 cats were destroyed.  It was a small city.  
Everyone rejoiced.  The outside roaming cat population was gone!  
Several months later, the outside roaming rat and mouse population increased to 
alarming levels and the city had to import a few hundred 
cats from surrounding cities to get things back under control.  Stupid 
ideas abound.  


 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
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[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Lee, my cat population beats yours!  There’s no cat fur in the milk I make – 
see all the soy milk makers that are available: 
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image 
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=imagefr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker
 fr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker 

The one I have is super easy, too – not touched by human hands or cat paws!

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:20 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

Not sure I could make my own soy milk.  I don't much like milk with cat fur in 
it.  I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially 
or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters.  My house was not 
well organized due to a little mistake in planning.  Actually big mistake in 
planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and 
then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm 
concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about 
the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed.  Just talk against anything in the food 
industry and you've had it.  Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. 
Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able 
to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken.  Sigh.  Is this a 
wonderful country or what!  Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his 
short run for President.  Angels from Heaven are rarely elected.  He's a 
wonderful, thoughtful, intelligent and logical man.

I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer 
then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel 
that we need to eat animals.  We are omnivores and have a choice.

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Edna Taylor

Why is that?  I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be 
friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely.   I am liberal in 
some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party 
affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer.  
Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the 
issues at hand.
 From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President









I think this topic should be off limits here.
 
Terri

  - Original Message - 
  From: Joslin 
  Potter 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 
  AM
  Subject: [Felvtalk] President
  

  
  Hey guys not to get off 
  from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about 
  the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one 
  should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for 
  nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says 
he 
  will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture 
  to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However 
  Mitt Romeny  has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. 
  Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations 
  from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws 
  in reference to animal cruilty. 
  ___
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  list
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Terri Brown
I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs.  So I prefer not to discuss 
politics, especially with people who don't really know me.

T
  - Original Message - 
  From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  Why is that?  I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be 
friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely.   I am liberal in 
some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party 
affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer.  
Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the 
issues at hand.
   


--
  From: siggies...@hotmail.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  I think this topic should be off limits here.

  Terri
- Original Message - 
From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] President


Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny  has 
made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that 
Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he 
has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal 
cruilty. 
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
I'm sorry to hear that, I've been taking it from people on facebook as I am 
just trying to understand what each of them is for. For me it's healthcare, 
that is what intrests me the most however, when it comes to people like Mike 
Vick, there need to be better laws put into place, i just wondered how everyone 
else felt, no judgement from me. Like i told a friend, we hall have and know 
something someone else might not. 

 


 From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

  
I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs.  So I prefer not to 
discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. 

T 
- Original Message -  
From: Edna Taylor  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21  PM 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Why is that?  I believe that people can have different  opinions yet still 
be friends and get along and discuss their  differences nicely.   I am liberal 
in some things but  conservative in others, I do not vote based on party 
affiliation, I vote based  on what that one particular candidate has to 
offer.  Sometimes I  vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all 
depends on the issues  at hand.
 

 



From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 
  4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

 
I think this topic should be off limits here. 

Terri 
-  Original Message -  
From: Joslin Potter  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM 
Subject: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Hey guys not to get  off from subject but I was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the  Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should  
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal  
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with  
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their  
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt  Romeny  
has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues.  Reports also show 
that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations  from the HSUS. 
However, he has done a few things in his state for better  laws in reference 
to animal cruilty. ___
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mailing 
list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

___ 
  Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Terri Brown
True enough.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  I would never bash someone for their beliefs because they are YOUR beliefs 
and I respect that.  Us cat people have to stick together whether we agree on 
candidates or not because most of the world thinks we are crazy anyway :)
   


--
  From: siggies...@hotmail.commailto:siggies...@hotmail.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:24:44 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs.  So I prefer not to discuss 
politics, especially with people who don't really know me.

  T
- Original Message - 
From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


Why is that?  I believe that people can have different opinions yet still 
be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely.   I am liberal 
in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party 
affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer.  
Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the 
issues at hand.
 



From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


I think this topic should be off limits here.

Terri
  - Original Message - 
  From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM
  Subject: [Felvtalk] President


  Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what 
everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one 
should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny  has 
made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that 
Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he 
has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal 
cruilty. 
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
I agree. I know that we are all from different states and backgrounds, that is 
why i am curious i know what it is like hear in Michigan... I would never judge 
anyone... 
  


 From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

 
I would never bash someone for their beliefs because they are YOUR beliefs and 
I respect that.  Us cat people have to stick together whether we agree on 
candidates or not because most of the world thinks we are crazy anyway :)
 



From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:24:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

 
I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs.  So I prefer not to 
discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. 

T 
- Original Message -  
From: Edna Taylor  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21  PM 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Why is that?  I believe that people can have different  opinions yet still 
be friends and get along and discuss their  differences nicely.   I am liberal 
in some things but  conservative in others, I do not vote based on party 
affiliation, I vote based  on what that one particular candidate has to 
offer.  Sometimes I  vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all 
depends on the issues  at hand.
 

 



From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 
  4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

 
I think this topic should be off limits here. 

Terri 
-  Original Message -  
From: Joslin Potter  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM 
Subject: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Hey guys not to get  off from subject but I was interested in what everyone 
thinks about the  Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should  
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal  
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with  
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their  
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt  Romeny  
has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues.  Reports also show 
that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations  from the HSUS. 
However, he has done a few things in his state for better  laws in reference 
to animal cruilty. ___
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mailing 
list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

___ 
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http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
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  list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Edna Taylor

Thanks for sharing that with us because I have wondered how someone in the 
healthcare industry felt about it.   Speaking from the perspective of someone 
whose husband lost his job 3 days before Christmas in 2008 and all of the 
promises made by the current administration to help with mortgages, 
healthcare, etc., I'm not seeing it, nor were we helped in any size, shape or 
fashion.   With regards to healthcare, we were told that because I had a full 
time job, I could (in a nutshell) s*ck it up and pay out an additional $500 a 
month to cover my husband and his son on my company's insurance plan until he 
found a job. We were also told that we had too much equity in our home so we 
didn't qualify for any mortgage assistance and in the end, I simply borrowed 
from his and my 401K and we just made ends meet until 15 months later he found 
full time employment. So, who is the better candidate?  I really don't know  :( 
Oh and to keep on track with kitty discussions for this group and speaking of 
FeLuk, one of our kitties that we thought was feral but ended up not being 
feral, so we brought her inside was diagnosed with a rapidly advancing cancer a 
few weeks ago and she is only about 2-3 years old.  The doctor said that the 
type of cancer she has indicates that she was exposed to FeLuk as a kitten but 
managed to shed the virus since she does not have it.  Unfortunately, it did 
its damage anyway :(  SuzieQ has maybe a month to live so we are making her 
comfortable and loving on her until she lets us know that she is ready to cross 
over :(
 From: siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President







Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I work 
for a health insurance company.  I understand how the business works.  
That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare, but there are 
some 
things that are NOT.  So I disagree that it should stand as it is.  It 
needs to be replaced.  My opinion.  I cannot speak on behalf of my 
employer.
 
Terri

  - Original Message - 
  From: Joslin 
  Potter 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

  
  I'm sorry to hear that, I've been taking it from people on facebook 
  as I am just trying to understand what each of them is for. For me it's 
  healthcare, that is what intrests me the most however, when it comes to 
people 
  like Mike Vick, there need to be better laws put into place, i just wondered 
  how everyone else felt, no judgement from me. Like i told a friend, we hall 
  have and know something someone else might not. 
  

  
  
  
  From: Terri Brown 
  siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 
  2012 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: 
  [Felvtalk] President


  
  
  

  
  
  I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs.  So I prefer not to 
  discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me.
   
  T
  
- 
Original Message - 
From: 
Edna 
Taylor 
To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 

Sent: 
Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject: 
Re: [Felvtalk] President


Why is that?  I believe that people can have different 
opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their 
differences nicely.   I am liberal in some things but 
conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote 
based on what that one particular candidate has to offer.  
Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends 
on the issues at hand.
 



From: 
siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 
Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President





I think this topic should be off limits here.
 
Terri

  - 
  Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joslin 
  Potter 
  To: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: 
  Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM
  Subject: 
  [Felvtalk] President
  

  
  Hey guys not to get 
  off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the 
  Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one 
  should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every 
  animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will 
  work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture 
to 
  make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However 
  Mitt Romeny  has made no clear statements or policies on animal 
  issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign 
  donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state 
  for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. 
  

Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Marcia Baronda
Stupid ideas from stupid people! Sorry, I hate to sound so judgemental, but 
seriously? Killed all the cats? That makes me sick.

Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. 

On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:53 AM
 I get the same response from hostile people.  Trees and vegetables are 
 living things so you can't eat that either.  Well, I will never be seen 
 munching on a tree.  I'm not a woodpecker but my idea is that I never eat 
 anything that had a face or could move on feet, claws, feelers, or any way 
 else. Most vegetables (except politicians) are meant to be eaten.  So are 
 fruits.  When I was growing vegetables, I would allow a certain number of 
 them to go to seed, to fulfill their need to propagate. The rest I would eat. 
  Humans have a choice.  Carnivorous species such as cats, lions, birds of 
 prey don't have a choice so I wouldn't expect them to be made into 
 vegetarians.  Unfortunately, here comes the problem.  If we all stop eating 
 animals, then we won't kill cows, sheep, pigs and the cats won't have meat in 
 their cat food.  But here's the solution.  They rarely have much meat in the 
 cat food anyway.  The first ingredient in most store products is corn meal.  
 I assume that we could produce a balanced cat food with enough Taurine and 
 other ingredients to satisfy physical needs of a carnivore like a cat if 
 everyone in the world became vegetarian.  However, thinking that everyone 
 will some day become vegetarian is rather unrealistic, like those people who 
 think that if we spay and neuter outside cats, colony cats, etc. we will some 
 day not have any more cats and dogs on Earth.  Actually, this happened in one 
 city.  They picked up all the cats and killed them at the city animal pound.  
 Altogether, 2000 cats were destroyed.  It was a small city.  Everyone 
 rejoiced.  The outside roaming cat population was gone!  Several months 
 later, the outside roaming rat and mouse population increased to alarming 
 levels and the city had to import a few hundred cats from surrounding cities 
 to get things back under control.  Stupid ideas abound.  
 
  
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
 neighbors too!
  
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Maureen Olvey

Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding 
between the candidates: I don't think either candidate will directly influence 
animal cruelty laws or humane practice laws.  They've got too much else to 
worry about, especially right now.  Even if they love animals it will not be 
their priority.  So, for this particular election I'm not even considering it.  
Now obviously if the candidate was a known animal abuser that would be 
different and would impact my decision.   When it comes to animal issues I tend 
to focus on the legislative branch like Congress and state reps, etc. that 
would have more influence passing legislation and laws. So, regarding animal 
welfare I'm basing my decision on who can best help me and other people help 
the animals and continue our work in animal welfare.  It's not what they will 
do, it's what they will allow me to do.  Right now the economy is a problem.  
People are losing their homes and can't keep their pets.  Donations to animal 
welfare organizations are down so they can't do as much either.  Many people 
like myself feed a bunch of feral cats.  It is hard to keep doing that when you 
can barely afford to feed your family.  I volunteer with a local humane society 
so even in our small part of the world I've seen a major increase in the number 
of pets surrendered by owners who lost their homes or just left their pets 
behind.   People have to spend more time trying to make ends meet and don't 
have time to volunteer with animal rescues etc.  Just lots of things like that. 
  Considering those kinds of things I'm looking at who can help the economy the 
most.  Each candidate has very different economic policies and very different 
approaches to boosting our economy.  So that's one thing I'm looking at hard - 
which economic policy do I think will work.  I lived in a third world country 
for two years a long time ago.  Their animals were a lot worse off than ours 
and it wasn't because the people weren't compassionate they just didn't have 
anything to be able to help their animals.  So right now I'm looking at which 
economic plan will help the country get back on it's feet so we can keep our 
pets and have time to donate and volunteer to fight for animal protection 
legislation. Healthcare is definitely something to consider but that's also 
part of the economic crisis so I'm not going to directly contribute any 
thoughts on that.   I would suggest not looking at just what the candidates say 
they will do for the animals but look at what will help us do for the animals.  
They've got too many other issues to tackle.  I'd be surprised if either one of 
them took up one animal issue whatsoever.  It's people like us who are working 
for the animals that make the difference so see what they can do for us and 
we'll do all the legwork to help the animals.  Take a look at the economic 
plans and that will help influence your decision.  I had a few basic economic 
courses in college so I understand the basics but not all the details.  I think 
if you just look at the basic models without going into too too many details it 
would be enough to make a decision. But hey, there's lots of other things to 
consider but that's where I'm at when I think about what will help the animals 
the most.
“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain
 From: taylore...@msn.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 11:44:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President





Thanks for sharing that with us because I have wondered how someone in the 
healthcare industry felt about it.  
 
Speaking from the perspective of someone whose husband lost his job 3 days 
before Christmas in 2008 and all of the promises made by the current 
administration to help with mortgages, healthcare, etc., I'm not seeing it, nor 
were we helped in any size, shape or fashion.   With regards to healthcare, we 
were told that because I had a full time job, I could (in a nutshell) s*ck it 
up and pay out an additional $500 a month to cover my husband and his son on my 
company's insurance plan until he found a job. We were also told that we had 
too much equity in our home so we didn't qualify for any mortgage assistance 
and in the end, I simply borrowed from his and my 401K and we just made ends 
meet until 15 months later he found full time employment.
 
So, who is the better candidate?  I really don't know  :(
 
Oh and to keep on track with kitty discussions for this group and speaking of 
FeLuk, one of our kitties that we thought was feral but ended up not being 
feral, so we brought her inside was diagnosed with a rapidly advancing cancer a 
few weeks ago and she is only about 2-3 years old.  The doctor said that the 

Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Joslin Potter
That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that 
now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they 
eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been 
eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how 
would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] President - OT Topics

2012-10-04 Thread Sharyl
I agree with Terri.  This list was set up to discuss ill kitties.  NOT politics 
and hunting.  There are other groups dedicated to those topics.  
 
In the meantime how about helping out Bella.  That is what this group is for
 
JMHO
Sharyl 
 


 From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused 
on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. 
 


 From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

 
I think this topic should be off limits here. 

Terri 
  
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread longhornfans
Thanks, Maureen. That was well stated  you made very valid points. Thanks for 
your opinion :). By the way, I don't care for either candidate. All politicians 
lie  I feel like I have to vote for the lesser of two evils, in my opinion.

Thanks again, Maureen!

L
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com
Sender: Felvtalk felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:52:28 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Lorrie
One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to
the way he wanted it.  He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans
who really screwed it up.  My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for.

Lorrie

On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote:
Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I
work for a health insurance company.  I understand how the business
works.  That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare,
but there are some things that are NOT.  So I disagree that it should
stand as it is.  It needs to be replaced.  My opinion.  I cannot speak
on behalf of my employer.
 
Terri

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Re: [Felvtalk] for Lee

2012-10-04 Thread Lorrie
Lee,   We think alike.  Humans are the main cause of most of the
problems on earth!  Too bad we have to keep feeding hunters, irresponsible
pet owners, polluters, and other jerks like this.

Lorrie

On 10-04, Lee Evans wrote:
During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to
the women who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant.
It wasn't that they turned off their reproductive system because it
was a legitimate rape but because below a certain nutritional level,
the body of a woman can't sustain a pregnancy and miscarries.  Deer and
other wild animal populations regulate themselves during times when
food is scarce and then grow during times when food is readily
available.  Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all these
darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when
deer season arrives again.  If hunting and eating the victim is a good
means of population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism.
Humans are soon going to outgrow themselves.  There are 8 billion of us
infecting the planet at this time and if even half of those breed, we
will have another 4 billion within a year or two..
 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
neighbors too!

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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Lorrie
Edna, 
Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing.  My mom
didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how
I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home
injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. 
If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave.

Lorrie


On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote:
Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several
kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because
she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and
social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because
you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom.  That is one position
that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's
feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and
for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get me
wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is
cruel and inhumane :(
 
Edna
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to
become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was
conducive, and I'm sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too.

There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit.  Some of the
Hunzas manage to survive on just energy - not sure how that works, mind
over matter?  Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of
the time because of all the available fruit.

As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores'
are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids
and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs.
Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying  as long as 36 hours, and with
weaker digestive juices. 

 

If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to
change - rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and
also destroys the planet in more ways than one.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Joslin Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

 

That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting
that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do
they eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have
been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles
how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-04 Thread Marcia
My mom didn't like cats either, but I know where I came from. My gramma loved 
dogs and cats and I spent a log of time with her. My Mom loved loved dogs, we 
had 12 collies living with us, but NO CATS!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:

 Edna, 
 Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing.  My mom
 didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how
 I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home
 injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. 
 If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave.
 
 Lorrie
 
 
 On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote:
   Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several
   kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because
   she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and
   social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because
   you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom.  That is one position
   that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's
   feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and
   for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get me
   wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is
   cruel and inhumane :(
 
   Edna
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[Felvtalk] FW: President

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie
Actually very simple:  Romney's dog on top of the car and Obama's dog inside
the car.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Maureen Olvey
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

 

Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding
between the candidates:
 
I don't think either candidate will directly influence animal cruelty laws
or humane practice laws.  They've got too much else to worry about,
especially right now.  Even if they love animals it will not be their
priority.  So, for this particular election I'm not even considering it.
Now obviously if the candidate was a known animal abuser that would be
different and would impact my decision.  
 
When it comes to animal issues I tend to focus on the legislative branch
like Congress and state reps, etc. that would have more influence passing
legislation and laws.
 
So, regarding animal welfare I'm basing my decision on who can best help me
and other people help the animals and continue our work in animal welfare.
It's not what they will do, it's what they will allow me to do.  Right now
the economy is a problem.  People are losing their homes and can't keep
their pets.  Donations to animal welfare organizations are down so they
can't do as much either.  Many people like myself feed a bunch of feral
cats.  It is hard to keep doing that when you can barely afford to feed your
family.  I volunteer with a local humane society so even in our small part
of the world I've seen a major increase in the number of pets surrendered by
owners who lost their homes or just left their pets behind.   People have to
spend more time trying to make ends meet and don't have time to volunteer
with animal rescues etc.  Just lots of things like that.  
 
Considering those kinds of things I'm looking at who can help the economy
the most.  Each candidate has very different economic policies and very
different approaches to boosting our economy.  So that's one thing I'm
looking at hard - which economic policy do I think will work.  I lived in a
third world country for two years a long time ago.  Their animals were a lot
worse off than ours and it wasn't because the people weren't compassionate
they just didn't have anything to be able to help their animals.  So right
now I'm looking at which economic plan will help the country get back on
it's feet so we can keep our pets and have time to donate and volunteer to
fight for animal protection legislation.
 
Healthcare is definitely something to consider but that's also part of the
economic crisis so I'm not going to directly contribute any thoughts on
that.  
 
I would suggest not looking at just what the candidates say they will do for
the animals but look at what will help us do for the animals.  They've got
too many other issues to tackle.  I'd be surprised if either one of them
took up one animal issue whatsoever.  It's people like us who are working
for the animals that make the difference so see what they can do for us and
we'll do all the legwork to help the animals.  Take a look at the economic
plans and that will help influence your decision.  I had a few basic
economic courses in college so I understand the basics but not all the
details.  I think if you just look at the basic models without going into
too too many details it would be enough to make a decision.
 
But hey, there's lots of other things to consider but that's where I'm at
when I think about what will help the animals the most.

I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain
 

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Marcia
Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live in 
cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a lot 
listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about that 
mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not deserve 
that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on FB. Because 
there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their food came from!

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to 
 become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was 
 conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too.
 There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit.  Some of the 
 Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind 
 over matter?  Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of 
 the time because of all the available fruit.
 
 As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores’ 
 are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids 
 and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs.  
 Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying  as long as 36 hours, and with 
 weaker digestive juices.
  
 If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to 
 change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and 
 also destroys the planet in more ways than one.
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
 Joslin Potter
 Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
  
 That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting 
 that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do 
 they eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have 
 been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles 
 how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food?
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Marcia
Lorrie, 

Me too(:

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:45 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:

 One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to
 the way he wanted it.  He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans
 who really screwed it up.  My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for.
 
 Lorrie
 
 On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote:
   Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I
   work for a health insurance company.  I understand how the business
   works.  That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare,
   but there are some things that are NOT.  So I disagree that it should
   stand as it is.  It needs to be replaced.  My opinion.  I cannot speak
   on behalf of my employer.
 
   Terri
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Terri Brown
I don't know where you heard that Lorrie, but it's not true.  

Terri
  - Original Message - 
  From: Lorriemailto:felineres...@frontier.com 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 4:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President


  One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to
  the way he wanted it.  He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans
  who really screwed it up.  My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for.

  Lorrie

  On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote:
  Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I
  work for a health insurance company.  I understand how the business
  works.  That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare,
  but there are some things that are NOT.  So I disagree that it should
  stand as it is.  It needs to be replaced.  My opinion.  I cannot speak
  on behalf of my employer.
   
  Terri

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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-04 Thread Beth
I agree. Totally not appropriate for this forum. You might want to email people 
privately if they want to respond

Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com wrote:

Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused 
on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. 

 


 From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
  

  
I think this topic should be off limits here. 

Terri 
- Original Message -  
From: Joslin  Potter  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49  AM 
Subject: [Felvtalk] President 

 
Hey guys not to get off  from subject butI was interested in what everyone 
thinks about  the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one  should 
choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for  nearly every animal 
protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he  will work with 
executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture  to make their 
policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However  Mitt Romeny  
has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues.  Reports also show 
that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations  from the HSUS. 
However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws  in reference 
to animal cruilty. ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: President

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
I agree that neither candidate can make animal rights/welfare a major issue in 
this election and I also agree that the economy is the major issue that impacts 
our rescues and other people's companion animals the most.  Then I look at the 
incumbent and see a man who was trussed up like a chicken about to go into the 
rotisserie and I see who did the trussing up, the Republican Senate.  I look at 
who started the sub-prime mortgage mess that led to so many people losing their 
homes and I see a Republican President allowing banks and stock brokers and 
CEO's of investment companies to have free rein to grab the money and run.  I 
see an ineffectual congress trying to get a fair tax program wherein people 
earning over a quarter of a million dollars a  year would pay their fair share 
of taxes to run the country.  Then I see Republicans putting up road blocks by 
saying that businesses would have to shut down if taxes were raised.  Who the 
heck ever mentioned
 businesses?  The problem is INDIVIDUALS who are rolling in money. I see 
Republicans coming in with smoke and mirrors and clouding the issue, confusing 
people into thinking that the tax hike would be on businesses.  I see a 
ridiculous-on-both sides health care plan with over a thousand pages of 
gibberish regulations.  What's wrong with just extending Medicare and Medicaid 
to everyone?  What's the problem with not re-inventing the wheel and adopting 
the Canadian health care model?  Then my friends tell me that we need a 
business man with a good sense of the economy to run the country.  And I say, 
these are the same people who ran the country off a cliff for 8 years.  I don't 
think I want them in the drivers seat again.  Just my opinion.

 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:29 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  President
 

Actually very simple:  Romney’s dog on top of the car and Obama’s dog inside 
the car.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen 
Olvey
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
 
Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
In addition, our teeth are not those of carnivores.  We have teeth similar to 
other primates.  We can't tear into our food.  We chomp like a chimp.  Our 
teeth are suited to nuts, seeds, grains, fruit, leaves, tubers and roots.  When 
we try to shred meat, even the most tender steak or well cooked chicken, our 
teeth tend to mash it down rather than prepare it properly for digestion. Our 
gall bladders work overtime trying to deal with animal fat.  All animal flesh 
has fat in it, even the stuff listed as lean. The meat gets stuck between our 
chompers and causes tooth decay whereas if we ate rice, beans, plants and 
fruits, we would haves less reason to floss.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 

Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live in 
cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a lot 
listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about that 
mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not deserve 
that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on FB. Because 
there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their food came from!

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:


Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become 
hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was 
conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too.
There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit.  Some of the 
Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind over 
matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the 
time because of all the available fruit.
As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores’ 
are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids 
and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs.  Food 
can be inside our intestines, putrefying  as long as 36 hours, and with weaker 
digestive juices. 
 
If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to 
change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also 
destroys the planet in more ways than one.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 
That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting 
that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do 
they eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have 
been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles 
how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? 
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[Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-10-04 Thread Elizabeth Malone
This list has always been so very helpful-now it is full of judgmental
people that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is
happening to this list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many
people all over the world hunt-they are all condemned because there are
those that hate it. Then the list is now into politics. What happened to
helping deliver information about feline leukemia? People that look in to
get help see this and leave. It is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating
away from what brought all to the list in the first place.

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Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans
Don't fret Elizabeth.  Occasionally we get a little off topic but we soon get 
back on the road. Just like you would take a journey and have to pull over to 
the shoulder of the road to allow your car to cool down we do the same here.  
We all have different opinions and sometimes we just like to cool down by 
having a chat with people we feel safe with - people who rescue cats and who 
understand the ethical decisions we make in not killing those cats who test 
FeLv+.  It feels to me like sitting down to dinner with a church group.  We all 
agree on the religion but we may all approach it in a different way and see it 
in a different way and even get way off topic and discuss hair styles and shoe 
styles.

If you have a question about feline leukemia, please ask it and we will 
discontinue our chat about everything under the sun and moon and help you with 
your issue.  Blessings.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
 

This list has always been so very helpful—now it is full of judgmental people 
that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this 
list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the 
world hunt—they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then 
the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information 
about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It 
is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the 
list in the first place.
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Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-10-04 Thread Elizabeth Malone
I have been with this list since my kitten developed Feline Leukemia in 2006. I 
have seen it go way off topic and people that have been invaluable leave. I 
realize I don’t post often, but as I am with many animal groups I do send 
people that are struggling. It was most disheartening to know that they were 
not able to get help, but did learn that people hated their beliefs. They just 
needed guidance because they are dealing with this for the first time. This has 
always been a place to hear the newest treatments and for those given grim news 
the knowledge that there is always hope.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:47 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

 

Don't fret Elizabeth.  Occasionally we get a little off topic but we soon get 
back on the road. Just like you would take a journey and have to pull over to 
the shoulder of the road to allow your car to cool down we do the same here.  
We all have different opinions and sometimes we just like to cool down by 
having a chat with people we feel safe with - people who rescue cats and who 
understand the ethical decisions we make in not killing those cats who test 
FeLv+.  It feels to me like sitting down to dinner with a church group.  We all 
agree on the religion but we may all approach it in a different way and see it 
in a different way and even get way off topic and discuss hair styles and shoe 
styles.

If you have a question about feline leukemia, please ask it and we will 
discontinue our chat about everything under the sun and moon and help you with 
your issue.  Blessings.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!

 

  _  

From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

 

This list has always been so very helpful—now it is full of judgmental people 
that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this 
list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the 
world hunt—they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then 
the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information 
about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It 
is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the 
list in the first place.


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