[Felvtalk] FW: 9 kittens, one testing pos

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
Janine,

As I understood it, the kitten was only “slightly” positive?  This would 
suggest that the kitten wasn’t born to a FeLV+ mother, but must have picked it 
up, otherwise the kitten would have tested a definite positive.  You can retest 
in one month, but it may not be enough time for the kitten to have shed the 
virus while its immune system develops.

 

The re-testing time should be 3 months/90 days after the initial test.  It is 
always suggested that any cat that is tested, FIV/FeLV, should be isolated and 
retested in 3 months.  The test could be negative when taken too soon after 
exposure – I think that’s when the 28 days comes in, the virus can be detected 
after that time – but we never have any way of knowing when a cat was exposed.  
  

 

so far, we’ve always been lucky.  I forgot that we had an adult cat in 1992 
that tested positive; we kept her isolated, and retested in 3 months – she was 
negative, and was adopted, and dumb adopter let her escape, we personally 
searched all over for her, but she was never found…..

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine 
paton
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 11:46 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos

 

Hi Natalie, 

 

We are not certain which is this kitten's mom, because the whole colony is 
mixed up.  One mom drops 2 kittens off, another picks them up.  They are all 
sharing.  

 

  _  

From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, October 8, 2012 11:06:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos

Janine, you wrote that some of their moms tested negative.  How about the 
positive kitten’s mom - was she pos or neg?  I would retest with the ELISA.  I 
find it strange that a kitten would show a weak positive if the mother was 
positive because their kittens are positive, or should be.  If the kitten’s mom 
is not positive, could this kittens have been exposed to a positive cat and 
therefore be a weak positive?  What was the vet’s explanation?

I don’t have much experience with FeLV – I have quite a few FIV.  I had a FeLV+ 
kitten years ago, and he died within 2 months.  Last year, I had 2 FeLV+ adult 
cats (already in the bone marrow), one died of CRF and the other one was 
adopted by a veterinarian and still doing really well.

Those two FeLV+ cats were living with a large group of healthy cats for about 6 
months…I have retested, starting with the youngest and oldest, and then 
everyone in the middle – not a single cat contracted FeLV!  I consider myself 
quite lucky!  But there are many on this list who have FeLV+ cats living with 
healthy ones, some vaccinate the healthy ones, and some do not.

Natalie

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of janine 
paton
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:21 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos

 

Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing pos 
is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month using 
Elisa?  And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, is this 
good enough?  All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just the one a 
weak pos.  I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense to me and 
keep everyone safe.  And foster homes understanding. 

 

Thanks, 

Janine

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: 9 kittens, one testing pos

2012-10-09 Thread Maryam Ulomi
Does the kitten have enlarged glands?

Sent from my iPhone.

On Oct 9, 2012, at 10:06, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

 Janine,
 As I understood it, the kitten was only “slightly” positive?  This would 
 suggest that the kitten wasn’t born to a FeLV+ mother, but must have picked 
 it up, otherwise the kitten would have tested a definite positive.  You can 
 retest in one month, but it may not be enough time for the kitten to have 
 shed the virus while its immune system develops.
  
 The re-testing time should be 3 months/90 days after the initial test.  It is 
 always suggested that any cat that is tested, FIV/FeLV, should be isolated 
 and retested in 3 months.  The test could be negative when taken too soon 
 after exposure – I think that’s when the 28 days comes in, the virus can be 
 detected after that time – but we never have any way of knowing when a cat 
 was exposed.
  
 so far, we’ve always been lucky.  I forgot that we had an adult cat in 1992 
 that tested positive; we kept her isolated, and retested in 3 months – she 
 was negative, and was adopted, and dumb adopter let her escape, we personally 
 searched all over for her, but she was never found…..
  
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
 janine paton
 Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 11:46 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos
  
 Hi Natalie, 
  
 We are not certain which is this kitten's mom, because the whole colony is 
 mixed up.  One mom drops 2 kittens off, another picks them up.  They are all 
 sharing.  
  
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Mon, October 8, 2012 11:06:33 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos
 
 Janine, you wrote that some of their moms tested negative.  How about the 
 positive kitten’s mom - was she pos or neg?  I would retest with the ELISA.  
 I find it strange that a kitten would show a weak positive if the mother was 
 positive because their kittens are positive, or should be.  If the kitten’s 
 mom is not positive, could this kittens have been exposed to a positive cat 
 and therefore be a weak positive?  What was the vet’s explanation?
 I don’t have much experience with FeLV – I have quite a few FIV.  I had a 
 FeLV+ kitten years ago, and he died within 2 months.  Last year, I had 2 
 FeLV+ adult cats (already in the bone marrow), one died of CRF and the other 
 one was adopted by a veterinarian and still doing really well.
 Those two FeLV+ cats were living with a large group of healthy cats for about 
 6 months…I have retested, starting with the youngest and oldest, and then 
 everyone in the middle – not a single cat contracted FeLV!  I consider myself 
 quite lucky!  But there are many on this list who have FeLV+ cats living with 
 healthy ones, some vaccinate the healthy ones, and some do not.
 Natalie
  
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
 janine paton
 Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:21 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: [Felvtalk] 9 kittens, one testing pos
  
 Can anyone explain to me why if from point of exposure to actually testing 
 pos is 28 days, if this is correct, why we can't just retest in one month 
 using Elisa?  And if all excepting the one testing weak pos, stjill test neg, 
 is this good enough?  All 8 kittens and some of their moms tested neg, just 
 the one a weak pos.  I am asking because I am trying to make this make sense 
 to me and keep everyone safe.  And foster homes understanding. 
  
 Thanks, 
 Janine
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
Nematodes - do you mean like I get for japanese beetles in my yard?  If not, 
what is name and where do I get them?


 GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: 
 I actually use Frontline on incoming cats with fleas..just that once, then
 it's the friendly little nematodes!
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee
 Evans
 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:53 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
  
 
 I don't believe that the doses would be different because you break the big
 one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus).  I was afraid to do this at first
 because I thought it might somehow be different than the single doses but if
 you think about it, there's no sediment at the bottom of the tube.  It's all
 uniformly mixed so no possibility of different strengths from breaking up
 the tube into smaller doses. What you are paying for in the standard cat
 dose is the packaging.  You are paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one
 larger plastic tube.  I don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that  I
 want to pay $15 extra above the cost of the ingredients.  I wish more stuff
 was on a bring your own bottle basis.  Some stuff in the grocery store is
 sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics.  Everything else is
 over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or
 whatever, you either toss the package, bottle  into the landfill or you have
 to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with curbside pick-up.  I
 have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution into cat size doses for
 years.  Haven't tried Advantage though because it goes by weight and that's
 a little more work intensive, since I have several cats who can't fit
 through the doorway and several more who could slip through the keyhole.
 
  
 
  
 
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!
 
  
 
   _  
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
 
 On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote:
 My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said
 even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same
 ingredients may be different. 
 
 The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I cannot do
 this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a pop, every month,
 I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from CAnada or overseas and
 dose down from the big dog size.  However, dosing down from the big dog
 size MUST be carefully figured out so the cats are not hurt.
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] O T

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
My problem is that I cannot afford the medicare supplement costs.  Between 
medicare deducted from your SS and medicare part D and supplement, I am going 
to the poor house real fast.  Could not get a cost of living raise in SS fro 2 
years but the congress voted itself a raise of $4000.00 per year because they 
needed it.  Think I will run for congress, they get free everything.


 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
 My mother-in-law is in Sweden, at 94 1/2, she lives alone, gets someone
 coming in 6 times a day, bring her 3 meals, help her up, get to bed, etc.
 clean her place.  It costs $200/month.  Yes, they paid into it all their
 lives, but she'll never go bankrupt or be subjected to a horrible place when
 time comes to move to a nursing home.  Father-in-law had a sunny private
 room, great care for $10/day!
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
 Lorrie
 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 6:28 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] O T
 
 On 10-04, GRAS wrote:
 Obama ideally wanted single-payer.
 
  Yes, and it is shameful that America, supposedly the greatest county in the
 world, lets it's people go without medical help.
 Every other first world country has single payer.
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
People who hunt for the trophy are wrong.  Those who hunt to help feed their 
family are right.  
Politicians will tell you what they think you want to hear and do what they 
want.  I am desperate enough this year to vote for one of my cats - write in 
vote.


 Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 This list has always been so very helpful-now it is full of judgmental
 people that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is
 happening to this list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many
 people all over the world hunt-they are all condemned because there are
 those that hate it. Then the list is now into politics. What happened to
 helping deliver information about feline leukemia? People that look in to
 get help see this and leave. It is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating
 away from what brought all to the list in the first place.
 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
Rice and beans can also get stuck between our chompers.  Also bean sprouts and 
lettuce.  But I still love them.  My big protein source is pinto beans on a 
tortilla with lots of greens and Thai peppers.


 Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 In addition, our teeth are not those of carnivores.  We have teeth similar to 
 other primates.  We can't tear into our food.  We chomp like a chimp.  Our 
 teeth are suited to nuts, seeds, grains, fruit, leaves, tubers and roots.  
 When we try to shred meat, even the most tender steak or well cooked chicken, 
 our teeth tend to mash it down rather than prepare it properly for digestion. 
 Our gall bladders work overtime trying to deal with animal fat.  All animal 
 flesh has fat in it, even the stuff listed as lean. The meat gets stuck 
 between our chompers and causes tooth decay whereas if we ate rice, beans, 
 plants and fruits, we would haves less reason to floss.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 

Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live in 
cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a lot 
listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about that 
mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not deserve 
that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on FB. Because 
there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their food came from!

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:


Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become 
hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was 
conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too.
There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit.  Some of the 
Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind over 
matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the 
time because of all the available fruit.
As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores’ 
are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids 
and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs.  Food 
can be inside our intestines, putrefying  as long as 36 hours, and with weaker 
digestive juices. 
 
If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to 
change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also 
destroys the planet in more ways than one.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin 
Potter
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 
That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting 
that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do 
they eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have 
been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles 
how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? 
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: President

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg

Problem is that they have all lost sense of reality.  They have no 
understanding of what it means to be middle class or poor.  They have all been 
privileged tooo long

 Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 I agree that neither candidate can make animal rights/welfare a major issue 
 in this election and I also agree that the economy is the major issue that 
 impacts our rescues and other people's companion animals the most.  Then I 
 look at the incumbent and see a man who was trussed up like a chicken about 
 to go into the rotisserie and I see who did the trussing up, the Republican 
 Senate.  I look at who started the sub-prime mortgage mess that led to so 
 many people losing their homes and I see a Republican President allowing 
 banks and stock brokers and CEO's of investment companies to have free rein 
 to grab the money and run.  I see an ineffectual congress trying to get a 
 fair tax program wherein people earning over a quarter of a million dollars 
 a  year would pay their fair share of taxes to run the country.  Then I see 
 Republicans putting up road blocks by saying that businesses would have to 
 shut down if taxes were raised.  Who the heck ever mentioned
  businesses?  The problem is INDIVIDUALS who are rolling in money. I see 
 Republicans coming in with smoke and mirrors and clouding the issue, 
 confusing people into thinking that the tax hike would be on businesses.  I 
 see a ridiculous-on-both sides health care plan with over a thousand pages of 
 gibberish regulations.  What's wrong with just extending Medicare and 
 Medicaid to everyone?  What's the problem with not re-inventing the wheel and 
 adopting the Canadian health care model?  Then my friends tell me that we 
 need a business man with a good sense of the economy to run the country.  And 
 I say, these are the same people who ran the country off a cliff for 8 
 years.  I don't think I want them in the drivers seat again.  Just my opinion.

 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:29 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  President
 

Actually very simple:  Romney’s dog on top of the car and Obama’s dog inside 
the car.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen 
Olvey
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President
 
Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding 
between the candidates:


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes and that 
would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and 
then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being 
raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, 
buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you 
turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 4H.  They hand 
raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and then after the 
fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I saw one.
 


 Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live 
 in cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a 
 lot listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about 
 that mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not 
 deserve that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on 
 FB. Because there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their 
 food came from!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:
 
  Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to 
  become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate 
  was conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too.
  There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit.  Some of the 
  Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind 
  over matter?  Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most 
  of the time because of all the available fruit.
  
  As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true 
  carnivores’ are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger 
  digestive acids and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in 
  about 12 hrs.  Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying  as long as 36 
  hours, and with weaker digestive juices.
   
  If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to 
  change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and 
  also destroys the planet in more ways than one.
  From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
  Joslin Potter
  Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
   
  That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting 
  that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What 
  do they eat?  your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people 
  have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the 
  jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food?
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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
Folks around here laugh because I stop and move turtles across the road so they 
won't get hit.  I even move snakes out of the way when working in the garden.  
Will admit that it is usually cool and they can't move too fast so copperheads, 
rattlers and spread heads get moved to the other side of the road out of harms 
way.I get frustrated with the raccoons because they can be so destructive, but 
they are cute so they are still around with the possums, deer, groundhog, 
squirrels and every other creature of the woods.  Got must have made them for a 
purpose.  I have always had dogs and cats for pets, even a ew chickens.


 Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: 
 My mom didn't like cats either, but I know where I came from. My gramma loved 
 dogs and cats and I spent a log of time with her. My Mom loved loved dogs, we 
 had 12 collies living with us, but NO CATS!!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 
  Edna, 
  Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing.  My mom
  didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how
  I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home
  injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. 
  If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave.
  
  Lorrie
  
  
  On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote:
Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several
kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because
she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and
social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because
you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom.  That is one position
that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's
feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and
for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get me
wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is
cruel and inhumane :(
  
Edna
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Re: [Felvtalk] for Lee

2012-10-09 Thread dlgegg
I agree with that!  We keep extending our lives and breeding with no regard as 
to how we will feed and care for the children.  So many just let hem run wild 
and then they start making babies.  Some even do it for the money - one lady in 
news recently admitted she had children and encouraged her daughters to do same 
for the money they get for each baby.  WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR MORALS, SENSE OF 
RIGHT AND WRONG?  Then we let cats and dogs breed so the children can witness 
the miracle of birth and have a little kitten/puppy.  Then when it becomes too 
much trouble, out it goes like and old piece of clothing.  All of my cats came 
in as ferals or dump cats left behind by uncaring owners.


 Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: 
 Lee,   We think alike.  Humans are the main cause of most of the
 problems on earth!  Too bad we have to keep feeding hunters, irresponsible
 pet owners, polluters, and other jerks like this.
 
 Lorrie
 
 On 10-04, Lee Evans wrote:
 During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to
 the women who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant.
 It wasn't that they turned off their reproductive system because it
 was a legitimate rape but because below a certain nutritional level,
 the body of a woman can't sustain a pregnancy and miscarries.  Deer and
 other wild animal populations regulate themselves during times when
 food is scarce and then grow during times when food is readily
 available.  Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all these
 darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when
 deer season arrives again.  If hunting and eating the victim is a good
 means of population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism.
 Humans are soon going to outgrow themselves.  There are 8 billion of us
 infecting the planet at this time and if even half of those breed, we
 will have another 4 billion within a year or two..
  
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter
I've seen them for sale on e-bay, the nematodes that is.

 


 From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
  
Nematodes - do you mean like I get for japanese beetles in my yard?  If not, 
what is name and where do I get them?


 GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: 
 I actually use Frontline on incoming cats with fleas..just that once, then
 it's the friendly little nematodes!
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee
 Evans
 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:53 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
  
 
 I don't believe that the doses would be different because you break the big
 one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus).  I was afraid to do this at first
 because I thought it might somehow be different than the single doses but if
 you think about it, there's no sediment at the bottom of the tube.  It's all
 uniformly mixed so no possibility of different strengths from breaking up
 the tube into smaller doses. What you are paying for in the standard cat
 dose is the packaging.  You are paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one
 larger plastic tube.  I don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that  I
 want to pay $15 extra above the cost of the ingredients.  I wish more stuff
 was on a bring your own bottle basis.  Some stuff in the grocery store is
 sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics.  Everything else is
 over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or
 whatever, you either toss the package, bottle  into the landfill or you have
 to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with curbside pick-up.  I
 have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution into cat size doses for
 years.  Haven't tried Advantage though because it goes by weight and that's
 a little more work intensive, since I have several cats who can't fit
 through the doorway and several more who could slip through the keyhole.
 
  
 
  
 
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!
 
  
 
   _  
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
 
 On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote:
     My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said
     even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same
     ingredients may be different. 
 
 The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I cannot do
 this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a pop, every month,
 I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from CAnada or overseas and
 dose down from the big dog size.  However, dosing down from the big dog
 size MUST be carefully figured out so the cats are not hurt.
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter
   
 I agree with you Lee, I don't see any issue with hunting.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  


The Lord replied,‘The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in 
the sand, is when I carried you MS
 


 From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
   People who hunt for the trophy are wrong.  Those who hunt to help feed their 
family are right.  Politicians will tell you what they think you want to hear 
and do what they want.  I am desperate enough this year to vote for one of my 
cats - write in vote. Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com wrote:  This 
list has always been so very helpful-now it is full of judgmental people that 
do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this 
list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the 
world hunt-they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then 
the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information 
about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It 
is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the 
list in the first place. 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
I posted it on Monday;
Fleabusters
They sell nematodes for spraying outside, and also interior products that
are safer than the toxic chemicals!
http://www.fleabuster.com/Products/Biobusters/nematodes.html 
Natalie



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:58 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products

Nematodes - do you mean like I get for japanese beetles in my yard?  If not,
what is name and where do I get them?


 GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: 
 I actually use Frontline on incoming cats with fleas..just that once, 
 then it's the friendly little nematodes!
 
  
 
  
 
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
 Of Lee Evans
 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:53 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
  
 
 I don't believe that the doses would be different because you break 
 the big one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus).  I was afraid to do 
 this at first because I thought it might somehow be different than the 
 single doses but if you think about it, there's no sediment at the 
 bottom of the tube.  It's all uniformly mixed so no possibility of 
 different strengths from breaking up the tube into smaller doses. What 
 you are paying for in the standard cat dose is the packaging.  You are 
 paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one larger plastic tube.  I 
 don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that  I want to pay $15 
 extra above the cost of the ingredients.  I wish more stuff was on a 
 bring your own bottle basis.  Some stuff in the grocery store is 
 sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics.  Everything else 
 is over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or 
 whatever, you either toss the package, bottle  into the landfill or 
 you have to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with 
 curbside pick-up.  I have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution 
 into cat size doses for years.  Haven't tried Advantage though because 
 it goes by weight and that's a little more work intensive, since I have
several cats who can't fit through the doorway and several more who could
slip through the keyhole.
 
  
 
  
 
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
 neighbors too!
 
  
 
   _
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
 
 On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote:
 My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said
 even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same
 ingredients may be different. 
 
 The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I 
 cannot do this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a 
 pop, every month, I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from 
 CAnada or overseas and dose down from the big dog size.  However, 
 dosing down from the big dog size MUST be carefully figured out so the
cats are not hurt.
 
 
 ___
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 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 
 
 


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Re: [Felvtalk] for Lee

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter
   
  
Nothing angers me more then people who get rid of their pets because they 
become to much work. More so the people who have the 10 yr old cat/dog and 
are having a baby so they need to rehome the cat/dog, or they just don't have 
time anymore that the animal needs. Why didn't they think of this before 
getting the animal? And in all honesty, my grandmother gave me a hard time for 
having 2 cats when my daughter was born one was 2 and the other was 11... Once 
the baby was born i don't ever recall them getting into her bed or drinking her 
milk if anything they were terrified! I live in an area where we get a lot of 
drop offs, and it's pretty depressing, I would like to keep them all, most are 
skittish and scared, sometimes they come back and sometimes they don't... I 
woudl love to drop off those people somewhere! 

The Lord replied,‘The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in 
the sand, is when I carried you MS
 


 From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] for Lee
   I agree with that!  We keep extending our lives and breeding with no regard 
as to how we will feed and care for the children.  So many just let hem run 
wild and then they start making babies.  Some even do it for the money - one 
lady in news recently admitted she had children and encouraged her daughters to 
do same for the money they get for each baby.  WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR MORALS, 
SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG?  Then we let cats and dogs breed so the children can 
witness the miracle of birth and have a little kitten/puppy.  Then when it 
becomes too much trouble, out it goes like and old piece of clothing.  All of 
my cats came in as ferals or dump cats left behind by uncaring owners. 
Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:  Lee,   We think alike.  
Humans are the main cause of most of the problems on earth!  Too bad we have 
to keep feeding hunters, irresponsible pet owners, polluters, and other jerks 
like this.  Lorrie  On
 10-04, Lee Evans wrote:     During the years of concentration camps, very 
few babies were born to     the women who were being tortured there, even 
though rape was rampant.     It wasn't that they turned off their 
reproductive system because it     was a legitimate rape but because below 
a certain nutritional level,     the body of a woman can't sustain a 
pregnancy and miscarries.  Deer and     other wild animal populations 
regulate themselves during times when     food is scarce and then grow during 
times when food is readily     available.  Feeding corn to deer in the winter 
assures all these     darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for 
their sport when     deer season arrives again.  If hunting and eating the 
victim is a good     means of population control, maybe we should reconsider 
cannibalism.     Humans are soon going to outgrow themselves.  There are 8 
billion of us    
 infecting the planet at this time and if even half of those breed, we     
will have another 4 billion within a year or two..       Spay and Neuter 
your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty     neighbors too!  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

2012-10-09 Thread longhornfans
Amen, and don't buy expensive furniture either. It is replaceable. The effects 
of declawing are far worse than house items!
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: dlg...@windstream.net
Sender: Felvtalk felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:43:38 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw

Folks around here laugh because I stop and move turtles across the road so they 
won't get hit.  I even move snakes out of the way when working in the garden.  
Will admit that it is usually cool and they can't move too fast so copperheads, 
rattlers and spread heads get moved to the other side of the road out of harms 
way.I get frustrated with the raccoons because they can be so destructive, but 
they are cute so they are still around with the possums, deer, groundhog, 
squirrels and every other creature of the woods.  Got must have made them for a 
purpose.  I have always had dogs and cats for pets, even a ew chickens.


 Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: 
 My mom didn't like cats either, but I know where I came from. My gramma loved 
 dogs and cats and I spent a log of time with her. My Mom loved loved dogs, we 
 had 12 collies living with us, but NO CATS!!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote:
 
  Edna, 
  Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing.  My mom
  didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how
  I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home
  injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. 
  If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave.
  
  Lorrie
  
  
  On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote:
Lorrie,  I agree with you 100%.  My Mom has wanted to adopt several
kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because
she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and
social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because
you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom.  That is one position
that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's
feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and
for what? furniture?  pppft.  Don't get me
wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did.  Declawing is
cruel and inhumane :(
  
Edna
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize 
children's feelings for animals!



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes and that 
would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and 
then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being 
raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, 
buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you 
turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 4H.  They hand 
raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and then after the 
fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I saw one.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter
I don't think 4H is that bad, is a great way for agriculture’s future leaders 
to learn first-hand the ins and outs of the livestock business, and it’s an 
outstanding activity to keep young people busy, engaged and out of trouble in 
the summer months, most state fairs are family events, they have contests, and 
it's hard work. I know a lot of the local farmers in my area use it as an 
advantage to buy cattle and sell them as well. Plus, they are always cleaning 
up after these animals at the fairs, I mean they are on show you know? I guess 
it's all about how you raise your kids. My girlfriend always raised chickens 
for the county fairs and at the end of the season the chicken would become 
dinner or into the freezer. I know this sounds gruesome but the logic was it 
was home grown without chemicals, and the chicken is food. 


~ * Joslin Irene *~
 


 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
  
That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize 
children's feelings for animals!



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes and that 
would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and 
then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being 
raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, 
buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you 
turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 4H.  They hand 
raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and then after the 
fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I saw one.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Scoopable Litter

2012-10-09 Thread Lorrie
This sounds like the best bet for me. I really have to have scoopable
litter. I once found a bag of Feline Pine Scoopable and it worked
wonderfully. The pellets are horrible tho.  The problem is we now live
in a very small town (rural area) and I have never seen the Pine Scoopable
here.  I'll try on line.

Lorrie

On 10-08, Lynda Wilson wrote:
 I use Feline Pine - scoopable, not the pellets (it's too hard on their feet 
 in my opinion).  It has improved immensely!  It clumps better and leaves 
 less on the floor than what it used to. It lasts a long time too.
 
 L
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] 4 H (OT Topic)

2012-10-09 Thread Lorrie
I could never kill an animal either. I think I'd rather starve.
As for 4 H.  I will never forget going to a county fair years
ago and seeing a little boy crying with his pet pig. He had 
his arms around the pig and the poor little kid was sobbing his
eyes out.  He had raised that pig and loved it, and his parents
made him join 4 H where the pig was just bought by a super market
to be slaughtered. I detest 4 H.  It teaches a child to betray an
animal they love and loved him and trusted him.

Lorrie


On 10-09, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

 I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats
 and think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful
 farmer because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes
 and that would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for
 food and care and then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get
 from some while being raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least
 when you meet a lion, buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect
 and if you are smart, you turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am
 not too keen on 4H.  They hand raise the animal, groom it and almost turn
 it into a pet and then after the fair, it is sold to someone for
 slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I saw one.
  

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[Felvtalk] FeLV chart from Sharyl - in case you missed it!

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
Janine, in case you missed it on October 4th.

This is a very helpful chart from Sharyl - explains the 30 day - 90 day
testing recommendations and exposure to FeLV!  

Natalie

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Sharyl
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:01 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough

 

Janine, 1st thank you for helping all these cats and kittens in such a
responsible manner.  Here is the link to a chart I have found very helpful
in explaining testing for FeLV

http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html

 

As I understand it the IFA test requires the virus to be in the kittens bone
marrow which takes time.  

 

Sometimes positive test are incorrect perhaps due to the handling of the
test.  Timing is very important.  If left too long before reading they will
give a positive result for a negative cat.

 

Hope Bella tests negative next time

 

Sharyl

 

From: janine paton patonjan...@sbcglobal.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough


Hello,

I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin.  Trying to find

testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. 

I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that
had 30 
kittens last year and none of them tested pos.  We just took 9 kittens
within a 
few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered.  There were a
few 
newcomers - mostly toms. 

All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent
out to 
lab.  Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each 
other's kittens.  

A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I
understand 
is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this!  

My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that
doesn't 
mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos.  My thinking is
that 
more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not
be 
positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? 

Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out
the 
ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. 

Looking for guidance - 

Thank you, 
Janine




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[Felvtalk] President

2012-10-09 Thread Lisa Conner
 that the doses would be different because you break the big
 one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus).? I was afraid to do this at first
 because I thought it might somehow be different than the single doses but if
 you think about it, there's no sediment at the bottom of the tube.? It's all
 uniformly mixed so no possibility of different strengths from breaking up
 the tube into smaller doses. What you are paying for in the standard cat
 dose is the packaging.? You are paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one
 larger plastic tube.? I don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that? I
 want to pay $15 extra above the cost of the ingredients.? I wish more stuff
 was on a bring your own bottle basis.? Some stuff in the grocery store is
 sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics.? Everything else is
 over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or
 whatever, you either toss the package, bottle? into the landfill or you have
 to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with curbside pick-up.? I
 have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution into cat size doses for
 years.? Haven't tried Advantage though because it goes by weight and that's
 a little more work intensive, since I have several cats who can't fit
 through the doorway and several more who could slip through the keyhole.
 
? 
 
? 
 
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!
 
? 
 
?  _? 
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
 
 On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote:
 ? ? My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said
 ? ? even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same
 ? ? ingredients may be different. 
 
 The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I cannot do
 this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a pop, every month,
 I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from CAnada or overseas and
 dose down from the big dog size.? However, dosing down from the big dog
 size MUST be carefully figured out so the cats are not hurt.
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread Lee Evans
I think the chicken would have a different opinion as to whether she is food or 
not.  The main thing is that humans are omnivorous.  We can survive quite 
nicely without ever eating an animal or even eating animal products.  Killing a 
chicken, a cow, a pig, a lamb, a rabbit, a fox for his fur, a fish because he 
doesn't have legs and lives in water instead of air is just not right.  I can't 
do it because I have a choice and I choose to allow members of other species to 
live.  It don't feel that 4H would be a bad idea if the kids were growing giant 
tomatoes and pumpkins.  I applaud farming, especially organic farming.  But 
raising a  700 pound pig or steer called Baby and then winning over a 
thousand dollars so Baby can be turned into bacon or steaks is just not my idea 
of teaching kids ethics.  What it is is teaching kids that sometimes it's OK to 
send your friend off to be slaughtered.  Lots of 4H kids are traumatized when 
the final day comes
 and they have to leave their friend and know he or she is going to be killed.  
Even the money is not solace.  So what type of lesson do they learn? That they 
have just taken part in a ritualized and accepted form of murder.  Think about 
how horrified we are if we hear about some country where killing dogs and cats 
for food is acceptable.  Why do we consider some animals food and some as 
respected companions and family members?  When you think about that, maybe you 
won't be a 4H enthusiast any more.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 

I don't think 4H is that bad, is a great way for agriculture’s future leaders 
to learn first-hand the ins and outs of the livestock business, and it’s an 
outstanding activity to keep young people busy, engaged and out of trouble in 
the summer months, most state fairs are family events, they have contests, and 
it's hard work. I know a lot of the local farmers in my area use it as an 
advantage to buy cattle and sell them as well. Plus, they are always cleaning 
up after these animals at the fairs, I mean they are on show you know? I guess 
it's all about how you raise your kids. My girlfriend always raised chickens 
for the county fairs and at the end of the season the chicken would become 
dinner or into the freezer. I know this sounds gruesome but the logic was it 
was home grown without chemicals, and the chicken is food. 

 
~ * Joslin Irene *~

From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
 
That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize 
children's feelings for animals!



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes and that 
would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for
 food and care and then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from 
some while being raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you 
meet a lion, buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are 
smart, you turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 
4H.  They hand raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and 
then after the fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I 
saw one.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
I agree with you – if it entailed great organic farming, 4-H would be very 
worthwhile!

I put that in the same category as a parent last year , as punishment, made the 
child kill their cat, or some morons punishing their children by throwing their 
pets out of the windows in multi-storied buildings! That borders on child 
abuse!  Children are naturally dawn to animals, and when they rear an animal 
until adulthood, they love it – then giving it up to be slaughtered is 
definitely a shock to some kids (not all!), and they will never forget it.

I also dislike Heifer International, where they give a village a cow or a goat 
(to supply milk, or whatever) – but doesn’t a cow have to be kept pregnant in 
order to lactate – DUH!  Most of the time, the village is so poor, no water, 
totally arid, and one wonders just how that animal will survive without food 
and water……and they always show the people all laughing and smiling, pictured 
with the donated animal….it’s almost as bad a sending them a lawn mower or snow 
plow.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 7:41 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

 

I think the chicken would have a different opinion as to whether she is food or 
not.  The main thing is that humans are omnivorous.  We can survive quite 
nicely without ever eating an animal or even eating animal products.  Killing a 
chicken, a cow, a pig, a lamb, a rabbit, a fox for his fur, a fish because he 
doesn't have legs and lives in water instead of air is just not right.  I can't 
do it because I have a choice and I choose to allow members of other species to 
live.  It don't feel that 4H would be a bad idea if the kids were growing giant 
tomatoes and pumpkins.  I applaud farming, especially organic farming.  But 
raising a  700 pound pig or steer called Baby and then winning over a 
thousand dollars so Baby can be turned into bacon or steaks is just not my idea 
of teaching kids ethics.  What it is is teaching kids that sometimes it's OK to 
send your friend off to be slaughtered.  Lots of 4H kids are traumatized when 
the final day comes and they have to leave their friend and know he or she is 
going to be killed.  Even the money is not solace.  So what type of lesson do 
they learn? That they have just taken part in a ritualized and accepted form of 
murder.  Think about how horrified we are if we hear about some country where 
killing dogs and cats for food is acceptable.  Why do we consider some animals 
food and some as respected companions and family members?  When you think about 
that, maybe you won't be a 4H enthusiast any more.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!

 

  _  

From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

 

I don't think 4H is that bad, is a great way for agriculture’s future leaders 
to learn first-hand the ins and outs of the livestock business, and it’s an 
outstanding activity to keep young people busy, engaged and out of trouble in 
the summer months, most state fairs are family events, they have contests, and 
it's hard work. I know a lot of the local farmers in my area use it as an 
advantage to buy cattle and sell them as well. Plus, they are always cleaning 
up after these animals at the fairs, I mean they are on show you know? I guess 
it's all about how you raise your kids. My girlfriend always raised chickens 
for the county fairs and at the end of the season the chicken would become 
dinner or into the freezer. I know this sounds gruesome but the logic was it 
was home grown without chemicals, and the chicken is food. 

 

~ * Joslin Irene *~

 

From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting


That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize 
children's feelings for animals!



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One look in their eyes and that 
would be it for me.  These animals are raised to trust us for food and care and 
then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from some while being 
raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you meet a lion, 
buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are smart, you 
turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 4H.  They hand 
raise the 

Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

2012-10-09 Thread Don
Just an update. I took Oliver in today as he has some pretty bad acne on
his chin and while we were there I had them do a retest (snap) FIV/leukemia
test.  He was negative for both, so it appears as the first positive test
we got about a month ago was a false positive and the infection he had was
likely just another virus.  We pretty much expected this once the IFC tests
were both negative but it was nice to have confirmation.
Thanks for the all the replies with advice.
Don and Oliver

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Don mosquito.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello.
 Our boy Oliver, has been doing well since his brothers passing due to CRF
 last Feb but in the past year or so we have seen some signs that we had
 been reading as old age (less grooming, weight loss...he just turned 15
 this August). Thursday night he was acting lethargic and seemed to be warm
 to the touch. I dropped him off at our vet who suggest it might just be a
 virus (most of this blood panel was good, except a low white blood cell
 count, now 2% below normal HCT values since July, and a 105 F temperature).
 He suggested we might test him for leukemia and FIV as he wanted to rule it
 out even though Oliver has always been an indoor cat (he used a ELISA snap
 test...as far as we know he has never been tested for feLV or FIV). The bad
 news came later when he called to say he was positive for both. He said the
 FIV could be false if Oliver was every given an FIV vaccination (he has),
 but the other was likely true (and also explained the low white count and
 the fever, and now in retrospect some of the other issues). The vet thinks
 he may have had this all his life and is just now experiencing the
 symptoms. So now he is home and although I have read up some and don't see
 much hope, I wondered if anyone can offer any advice. We have sent the
 blood off to get the more sophisticated test but won't hear back until next
 week.
 Our vet, who is the best I have had, suggested perhaps he will last a few
 weeks or months, given that he is showing signs that his body might be
 losing the battle (low white cells, anemia). I'm trying to be optimistic,
 but with no treatments I know this is probably a battle we cannot win.

 Here are my questions:
 1. We have 2 other cats who we think have had the feLV booster recently
 (they are 14 and 16 years old and got the immunization as kittens).  Are
 they in danger? If they got shots as kittens would they be still safe?  We
 have Oliver with his own litter box and am making sure they use separate
 water and food bowls.  There is not grooming among them.
 2.  Is there anyway to know if Oliver can still fight off the virus and
 become free of it?  If he did have it for 14-15 years, then why does he
 have symptoms now?  If it was a recent exposure (we cannot think of any way
 he would have gotten it) then could he still be fine?
 3.  He seems fine now (no fever, eating, drinking, using the litter box,
 etc.) so is this a good sign that perhaps he is able to fight it off or is
 this just a false hope.
 4.  If the other test is positive, would anyone suggest using the LTCI
 treatment?  I have not found good scientific info on it's effectiveness
 although there appear to be no major side effects.

 Thanks.
 Don and Oliver
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Re: [Felvtalk] President

2012-10-09 Thread Diane Rosenfeldt
] Flea Products
  
Nematodes - do you mean like I get for japanese beetles in my yard?? If not,
what is name and where do I get them?


 GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: 
 I actually use Frontline on incoming cats with fleas..just that once, then
 it's the friendly little nematodes!
 
? 
 
? 
 
 From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lee
 Evans
 Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:53 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
? 
 
 I don't believe that the doses would be different because you break the
big
 one into 7 doses (as in Frontline Plus).? I was afraid to do this at first
 because I thought it might somehow be different than the single doses but
if
 you think about it, there's no sediment at the bottom of the tube.? It's
all
 uniformly mixed so no possibility of different strengths from breaking up
 the tube into smaller doses. What you are paying for in the standard cat
 dose is the packaging.? You are paying for 3 plastic tubes instead of one
 larger plastic tube.? I don't feel that plastic tubes are so great that? I
 want to pay $15 extra above the cost of the ingredients.? I wish more
stuff
 was on a bring your own bottle basis.? Some stuff in the grocery store
is
 sold that way - peanut butter, honey, some cosmetics.? Everything else is
 over-packaged so that when you finish your juice or your ketchup or
 whatever, you either toss the package, bottle? into the landfill or you
have
 to lug it to recycle if you don't live in a city with curbside pick-up.? I
 have been breaking Frontline Plus and Revolution into cat size doses for
 years.? Haven't tried Advantage though because it goes by weight and
that's
 a little more work intensive, since I have several cats who can't fit
 through the doorway and several more who could slip through the keyhole.
 
? 
 
? 
 
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!
 
? 
 
?  _? 
 
 From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Flea Products
 
 
 On 10-05, Edna Taylor wrote:
 ? ? My vet frowns on using any dog flea product on cats because she said
 ? ? even though it is the same ingredients, the portions of the same
 ? ? ingredients may be different. 
 
 The vet will make much more money if you give individual doses. I cannot
do
 this as I have 24 rescued cats at this time, and at $15. a pop, every
month,
 I'd be broke in no time, so I buy flea stuff from CAnada or overseas and
 dose down from the big dog size.? However, dosing down from the big dog
 size MUST be carefully figured out so the cats are not hurt.
 
 
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 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

2012-10-09 Thread Diane Rosenfeldt
Don, 

 

How cool that  this worked out so well! I hope that acne clears up quickly.
;-) Skritches to Oliver.

 

Diane R.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:35 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

 

Just an update. I took Oliver in today as he has some pretty bad acne on his
chin and while we were there I had them do a retest (snap) FIV/leukemia
test.  He was negative for both, so it appears as the first positive test we
got about a month ago was a false positive and the infection he had was
likely just another virus.  We pretty much expected this once the IFC tests
were both negative but it was nice to have confirmation.
Thanks for the all the replies with advice.
Don and Oliver

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Don mosquito.d...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello.
Our boy Oliver, has been doing well since his brothers passing due to CRF
last Feb but in the past year or so we have seen some signs that we had been
reading as old age (less grooming, weight loss...he just turned 15 this
August). Thursday night he was acting lethargic and seemed to be warm to the
touch. I dropped him off at our vet who suggest it might just be a virus
(most of this blood panel was good, except a low white blood cell count, now
2% below normal HCT values since July, and a 105 F temperature). He
suggested we might test him for leukemia and FIV as he wanted to rule it out
even though Oliver has always been an indoor cat (he used a ELISA snap
test...as far as we know he has never been tested for feLV or FIV). The bad
news came later when he called to say he was positive for both. He said the
FIV could be false if Oliver was every given an FIV vaccination (he has),
but the other was likely true (and also explained the low white count and
the fever, and now in retrospect some of the other issues). The vet thinks
he may have had this all his life and is just now experiencing the symptoms.
So now he is home and although I have read up some and don't see much hope,
I wondered if anyone can offer any advice. We have sent the blood off to get
the more sophisticated test but won't hear back until next week.
Our vet, who is the best I have had, suggested perhaps he will last a few
weeks or months, given that he is showing signs that his body might be
losing the battle (low white cells, anemia). I'm trying to be optimistic,
but with no treatments I know this is probably a battle we cannot win.

Here are my questions:
1. We have 2 other cats who we think have had the feLV booster recently
(they are 14 and 16 years old and got the immunization as kittens).  Are
they in danger? If they got shots as kittens would they be still safe?  We
have Oliver with his own litter box and am making sure they use separate
water and food bowls.  There is not grooming among them.
2.  Is there anyway to know if Oliver can still fight off the virus and
become free of it?  If he did have it for 14-15 years, then why does he have
symptoms now?  If it was a recent exposure (we cannot think of any way he
would have gotten it) then could he still be fine?
3.  He seems fine now (no fever, eating, drinking, using the litter box,
etc.) so is this a good sign that perhaps he is able to fight it off or is
this just a false hope.
4.  If the other test is positive, would anyone suggest using the LTCI
treatment?  I have not found good scientific info on it's effectiveness
although there appear to be no major side effects.

Thanks.
Don and Oliver 

 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
That's great news; you must be relieved!~I just don't understand why your
vet would have even considered the possibility of FeLV/FIV if the cat was
always indoors!  There are so many other reasons for those symptoms! The
whole thing seems odd!

You may want to look into and consider RenAvast for Oliver's kidneys!
www.renavast.com - there have been some excellent results!  Our 18+ Spook
has been on RenAvast and just now has CRF which I am treating with daily
sub-q fluids, RenAvast, Calcitriol, and Pepcid AC.  

BTW - for chin acne, use only non-porous dishes like ceramic, glass,
stainless steel - not plastic!

ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL, ISN'T IT?

Natalie

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Diane Rosenfeldt
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 10:29 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

 

Don, 

 

How cool that  this worked out so well! I hope that acne clears up quickly.
;-) Skritches to Oliver.

 

Diane R.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:35 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need advice for our cat Oliver

 

Just an update. I took Oliver in today as he has some pretty bad acne on his
chin and while we were there I had them do a retest (snap) FIV/leukemia
test.  He was negative for both, so it appears as the first positive test we
got about a month ago was a false positive and the infection he had was
likely just another virus.  We pretty much expected this once the IFC tests
were both negative but it was nice to have confirmation.
Thanks for the all the replies with advice.
Don and Oliver

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Don mosquito.d...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello.
Our boy Oliver, has been doing well since his brothers passing due to CRF
last Feb but in the past year or so we have seen some signs that we had been
reading as old age (less grooming, weight loss...he just turned 15 this
August). Thursday night he was acting lethargic and seemed to be warm to the
touch. I dropped him off at our vet who suggest it might just be a virus
(most of this blood panel was good, except a low white blood cell count, now
2% below normal HCT values since July, and a 105 F temperature). He
suggested we might test him for leukemia and FIV as he wanted to rule it out
even though Oliver has always been an indoor cat (he used a ELISA snap
test...as far as we know he has never been tested for feLV or FIV). The bad
news came later when he called to say he was positive for both. He said the
FIV could be false if Oliver was every given an FIV vaccination (he has),
but the other was likely true (and also explained the low white count and
the fever, and now in retrospect some of the other issues). The vet thinks
he may have had this all his life and is just now experiencing the symptoms.
So now he is home and although I have read up some and don't see much hope,
I wondered if anyone can offer any advice. We have sent the blood off to get
the more sophisticated test but won't hear back until next week.
Our vet, who is the best I have had, suggested perhaps he will last a few
weeks or months, given that he is showing signs that his body might be
losing the battle (low white cells, anemia). I'm trying to be optimistic,
but with no treatments I know this is probably a battle we cannot win.

Here are my questions:
1. We have 2 other cats who we think have had the feLV booster recently
(they are 14 and 16 years old and got the immunization as kittens).  Are
they in danger? If they got shots as kittens would they be still safe?  We
have Oliver with his own litter box and am making sure they use separate
water and food bowls.  There is not grooming among them.
2.  Is there anyway to know if Oliver can still fight off the virus and
become free of it?  If he did have it for 14-15 years, then why does he have
symptoms now?  If it was a recent exposure (we cannot think of any way he
would have gotten it) then could he still be fine?
3.  He seems fine now (no fever, eating, drinking, using the litter box,
etc.) so is this a good sign that perhaps he is able to fight it off or is
this just a false hope.
4.  If the other test is positive, would anyone suggest using the LTCI
treatment?  I have not found good scientific info on it's effectiveness
although there appear to be no major side effects.

Thanks.
Don and Oliver 

 

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[Felvtalk] ADMIN: Too much OT posting

2012-10-09 Thread James G Wilson
Hey all, 

Hope everyone is doing well. I have received a number of 
complaints privately about the amount of OT posting of 
late. There are a lot of people whose mailboxes simply 
cannot handle the volume of extraneous mail. Also, 
people should be respectful of the mission of this group 
and try to stay on topic as much as possible. Yes, OT 
posts once in awhile are ok. But, it has gotten a bit out of 
hand of late. So, please try to keep posts on topic again. 
Thank you all for your cooperation. After all, we are all 
here for our cats and for each other. Kind regards.

James G. Wilson - FeLV list administrator
phaed...@charter.net
http://www.felineleukemia.org (FeLV Support)
http://www.facebook.com/crambone
http://weather62025.com (for Edwardsville, IL)


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[Felvtalk] Off topic: President

2012-10-09 Thread Natalie
Diane R., not only are you pretty sure - you are absolutely correct!
Not to mention what Mitt and Paul intend to do: Get rid of Planned
Parenthood which screens women for cancer, has helped a friend of mine
numerous times because she can't afford to go to a doctor; reverse Roe V.
Wade, getting women killed in back alleys, adopt personhood which will
make certain birth control illegal and criminal, overturn Obamacare but
promises to keep pre-existing conditions clause (although it applies ONLY to
people who have had long-time insurance, not for new applicants with
pre-existing conditions!) and women will automatically be back at the status
of having pre-existing conditions just because they're women,just to
mention a few.
An American friend is retired in Belgium and my husband just came back from
Sweden - people there cannot believe that this is part of US politics!  Even
though many European countries are Catholic or of other religions, they do
not meddle in people's bedrooms!

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Diane Rosenfeldt
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 10:23 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President

Um, I don't think the guy who was President the last 4 years caused ANY of
the problems you mention. In fact, I know he didn't. I'm pretty sure in fact
that his predecessor did, and the new person is from that same party and
has that same agenda. We had the worst recession since 1929, and if you've
read any American History, that catastrophe took almost 10 years to recover
from, and that was with Congress more or less working together.

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
Lisa Conner
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] President

Ok.. you are profiling and that is just plain wrong:)   If we have the past
4 yours as the next 4 years,  there will be a mass revolt.
Seriously, from mass job losses, no growth of our country,  the division of
our country,  we have to take a chance on a new person:) It can't get any
worse.  That is my 2 cents!

Now , back to our Felv + kitties.  I am fairly new to this group and joined
because of losing my cat, Prancer.  He lived for 9+ years, a very healthy
life. Then bang, like a whirlwind, we lost him.  So my two questions to this
group is the following:




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Re: [Felvtalk] ADMIN: Too much OT posting

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter

I'm really sorry James, I didn't mean to blow up peoples mailboxes I was just 
curous of what other people thought of the election, it's nice to hear from 
people other than the ones you come in contact with everyday or family. 

~ * Joslin Irene *~
 


 From: James G Wilson phaed...@charter.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:33 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] ADMIN: Too much OT posting
  
Hey all, 

Hope everyone is doing well. I have received a number of 
complaints privately about the amount of OT posting of 
late. There are a lot of people whose mailboxes simply 
cannot handle the volume of extraneous mail. Also, 
people should be respectful of the mission of this group 
and try to stay on topic as much as possible. Yes, OT 
posts once in awhile are ok. But, it has gotten a bit out of 
hand of late. So, please try to keep posts on topic again. 
Thank you all for your cooperation. After all, we are all 
here for our cats and for each other. Kind regards.

James G. Wilson - FeLV list administrator
phaed...@charter.net
http://www.felineleukemia.org (FeLV Support)
http://www.facebook.com/crambone
http://weather62025.com (for Edwardsville, IL)


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Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

2012-10-09 Thread Joslin Potter
As a small game hunter myself, however, I can understand why one might be upset 
with the system of eating certain animals and not others. I know in countries 
overseas like Thialand, China, and Korea they acutally eat dogs and cats, so I 
can understand your sensitivity when you refer to a rabbit/chicken having a 
difference of opinion. Since starting this group I joined Change.org in hopes 
that by signing my name I might be able to make a change, however, the country 
girl in my can't kick the deer steaks and my all time favirote snapper turtle, 
but I do respect your choice to be an omnivour. 


~ * Joslin Irene *~

  


 From: Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
  

I think the chicken would have a different opinion as to whether she is food or 
not.  The main thing is that humans are omnivorous.  We can survive quite 
nicely without ever eating an animal or even eating animal products.  Killing a 
chicken, a cow, a pig, a lamb, a rabbit, a fox for his fur, a fish because he 
doesn't have legs and lives in water instead of air is just not right.  I can't 
do it because I have a choice and I choose to allow members of other species to 
live.  It don't feel that 4H would be a bad idea if the kids were growing giant 
tomatoes and pumpkins.  I applaud farming, especially organic farming.  But 
raising a  700 pound pig or steer called Baby and then winning over a 
thousand dollars so Baby can be turned into bacon or steaks is just not my idea 
of teaching kids ethics.  What it is is teaching kids that sometimes it's OK to 
send your friend off to be slaughtered.  Lots of 4H kids are traumatized when 
the final day comes
 and they have to leave their friend and know he or she is going to be killed.  
Even the money is not solace.  So what type of lesson do they learn? That they 
have just taken part in a ritualized and accepted form of murder.  Think about 
how horrified we are if we hear about some country where killing dogs and cats 
for food is acceptable.  Why do we consider some animals food and some as 
respected companions and family members?  When you think about that, maybe you 
won't be a 4H enthusiast any more.



Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!


 


 From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
  

I don't think 4H is that bad, is a great way for agriculture’s future leaders 
to learn first-hand the ins and outs of the livestock business, and it’s an 
outstanding activity to keep young people busy, engaged and out of trouble in 
the summer months, most state fairs are family events, they have contests, and 
it's hard work. I know a lot of the local farmers in my area use it as an 
advantage to buy cattle and sell them as well. Plus, they are always cleaning 
up after these animals at the fairs, I mean they are on show you know? I guess 
it's all about how you raise your kids. My girlfriend always raised chickens 
for the county fairs and at the end of the season the chicken would become 
dinner or into the freezer. I know this sounds gruesome but the logic was it 
was home grown without chemicals, and the chicken is food. 


~ * Joslin Irene *~
 


 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
  
That's exactly how I feel about the 4-H Club!~ It totally tries to desensitize 
children's feelings for animals!



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:37 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting

I am in a rural area and they all think I am crazy because I have 7 cats and 
think they have rights.  I don't think i could ever be a successful farmer 
because I would have to kill the animals.  One
 look in their eyes and that would be it for me.  These animals are raised to 
trust us for
 food and care and then one day we kill them plus the treatment they get from 
some while being raised for the slaughter is deploreable. At least when you 
meet a lion, buffalo, sow with babies, you know what to expect and if you are 
smart, you turn tail and run for shelter.  That is why I am not too keen on 
4H.  They hand raise the animal, groom it and almost turn it into a pet and 
then after the fair, it is sold to someone for slaughter.  A betrayal is ever I 
saw one.


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