Re: [Felvtalk] Feline Leukemia

2012-11-20 Thread Lee Evans
Sounds like the vets in  your country are not very knowledgeable about FeLv.  
Your kitten is still young and might just be fighting the antibodies he got 
from a FeLv+ mother.  You need to retest him in about 2 to 3 months and he may 
be negative, having overcome the antibodies.  You need to know whether he is 
running a fever and how high it is.  You probably need to visit another vet for 
the retest because it seems like the animal doctors in your country haven't 
much interest in diagnostics past just testing for FeLv and FIV.  Sometimes the 
test can be positive for FeLv because the cat is fighting off another type of 
infection entirely.  It's not a death sentence.  It's a tool to see what can be 
done for the cat.  Just like testing a human for diabetes is a tool to see what 
medications would be needed if the person has diabetes.

Meantime give your cat good food.  I would recommend a vitamin like Nutra-Ved 
which can be purchased online without any prescription or maybe your vet has it 
in stock.  It's a liquid that you can either add to the food or give in a 
measured dose by mouth with a feeding syringe.  I currently have a cat named 
Desi who is leukemia positive.  However, although he lost a lot of weight, he 
grooms himself, he has shiny fur and he is alert, clear eyed and interested in 
things around him.  He was a colony cat who we fed for several years.  He just 
recently began losing a lot of weight and we had him tested, were surprised 
that he was FeLv+ because he was living outside all this time, never showing 
any symptoms of poor health.

Each cat is an individual.  One size medicine or vet care does NOT fit all.  So 
keep a good attitude and don't look at your cat as if he were ill with 
something fatal.  Look at him as if this is just another crisis in his life 
which he can overcome.

Keep us posted.  Hugs to you and your fur kid.

 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Feline Leukemia
 
Hi Laurine,

First let me say that I'm so sorry, because this is so scary and probably 
worse for you since it doesn't sound like you are getting any HOPE, which is 
so important. Does your kitty have a temperature? If you can get meds online I 
would definitely suggest some amoxicillin, if he has a fever. He may have an 
infection that he needs help with. You can order fish antibiotics over the 
Internet made by Thomas Labs. I hate to give this kind of advice, but it may 
make him better where he feels good enough to eat better. I would also give 
him some b complex vitamins
Because cats need them. Sometimes they will perk up and eat and drink better 
after having them. Twin Labs makes liquid b complex that you could give by 
syringe. Other people on here will be able to help better than I, because I'm 
kind of a newbie with the Felv. My heart goes out to you and your kitty.

Take care
Marcia
Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. 

On Nov 19, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Lauraine Venter laura...@hencon.co.mz wrote:

 Funny enough around here they don't wanna put them to sleep (no space to put 
 them afterwards) so they just say sorry have some vitamins and good bye when 
 you leave their offices.  I will rather put myself to sleep than do it to my 
 kitty (sorry but I will)  I got him when he was 5 days old and had to 
 perform cpr on him at 10 days old as he didn't want to breath anymore so he 
 is super special for me he is my kid.  I will definitely have a look at 
 L-Lysine I am prepared to do anything for him as long as he is not in any 
 pain think that will kill me if I know he is in pain.  He is living a very 
 stress free life thus far (own playroom, jungle gym, toys, bed and even 
 aircon as it get 40-45 degrees around here), my main concern is that it was 
 picked up to late being that he is losing weight fast and still not eating 
 good even if I give him his special treats that he loves and yes his age.
 
 Kind Regards
 Lauraine Venter

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Re: [Felvtalk] Feline Leukemia

2012-11-20 Thread Marcia Baronda
I remember being very frightened when I found out that Fletch was positive for 
Felv. But then I found this list and the people on here gave me much needed 
hope. They explained, just like Lee did that this IS NOT a death sentence. So 
keep your chin up. Tanya's CRF web site has a list of many different B complex 
vitamins that are available online and how much of each b vitamin is in each 
product. It would be a great place to look. 
Keep your chin up, we are all here for you.
Marcia

Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. 

On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:28 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Sounds like the vets in  your country are not very knowledgeable about FeLv.  
 Your kitten is still young and might just be fighting the antibodies he got 
 from a FeLv+ mother.  You need to retest him in about 2 to 3 months and he 
 may be negative, having overcome the antibodies.  You need to know whether he 
 is running a fever and how high it is.  You probably need to visit another 
 vet for the retest because it seems like the animal doctors in your country 
 haven't much interest in diagnostics past just testing for FeLv and FIV.  
 Sometimes the test can be positive for FeLv because the cat is fighting off 
 another type of infection entirely.  It's not a death sentence.  It's a tool 
 to see what can be done for the cat.  Just like testing a human for diabetes 
 is a tool to see what medications would be needed if the person has diabetes.
 
 Meantime give your cat good food.  I would recommend a vitamin like Nutra-Ved 
 which can be purchased online without any prescription or maybe your vet has 
 it in stock.  It's a liquid that you can either add to the food or give in a 
 measured dose by mouth with a feeding syringe.  I currently have a cat named 
 Desi who is leukemia positive.  However, although he lost a lot of weight, he 
 grooms himself, he has shiny fur and he is alert, clear eyed and interested 
 in things around him.  He was a colony cat who we fed for several years.  He 
 just recently began losing a lot of weight and we had him tested, were 
 surprised that he was FeLv+ because he was living outside all this time, 
 never showing any symptoms of poor health.
 
 Each cat is an individual.  One size medicine or vet care does NOT fit all.  
 So keep a good attitude and don't look at your cat as if he were ill with 
 something fatal.  Look at him as if this is just another crisis in his life 
 which he can overcome.
 
 Keep us posted.  Hugs to you and your fur kid.
  
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
 neighbors too!
 
 
 From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Feline Leukemia
 
 Hi Laurine,
 
 First let me say that I'm so sorry, because this is so scary and probably 
 worse for you since it doesn't sound like you are getting any HOPE, which is 
 so important. Does your kitty have a temperature? If you can get meds online 
 I would definitely suggest some amoxicillin, if he has a fever. He may have 
 an infection that he needs help with. You can order fish antibiotics over the 
 Internet made by Thomas Labs. I hate to give this kind of advice, but it may 
 make him better where he feels good enough to eat better. I would also give 
 him some b complex vitamins
 Because cats need them. Sometimes they will perk up and eat and drink better 
 after having them. Twin Labs makes liquid b complex that you could give by 
 syringe. Other people on here will be able to help better than I, because I'm 
 kind of a newbie with the Felv. My heart goes out to you and your kitty.
 
 Take care
 Marcia
 Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 
 2010. 
 
 On Nov 19, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Lauraine Venter laura...@hencon.co.mz wrote:
 
  Funny enough around here they don't wanna put them to sleep (no space to 
  put them afterwards) so they just say sorry have some vitamins and good bye 
  when you leave their offices.  I will rather put myself to sleep than do it 
  to my kitty (sorry but I will)  I got him when he was 5 days old and had to 
  perform cpr on him at 10 days old as he didn't want to breath anymore so he 
  is super special for me he is my kid.  I will definitely have a look at 
  L-Lysine I am prepared to do anything for him as long as he is not in any 
  pain think that will kill me if I know he is in pain.  He is living a very 
  stress free life thus far (own playroom, jungle gym, toys, bed and even 
  aircon as it get 40-45 degrees around here), my main concern is that it was 
  picked up to late being that he is losing weight fast and still not eating 
  good even if I give him his special treats that he loves and yes his age.
  
  Kind Regards
  Lauraine Venter
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Beth
I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The 
spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all 
spayed.
Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles, are 
much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from not 
being spayed..

There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not 
getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.


Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
 

If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a third 
longer?    There's more to the overall story than just local 
stresses: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools do 
not teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.




On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would wait for 
the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel done to make 
sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
Hope all goes well.

Beth

Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone,

We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued feral 
baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own room, 
isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we are 
retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
Should we retest first and then spay?
Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?

Any suggestions are welcome

Sent from my iPhone
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


Re: [Felvtalk] possible pos. BIG cat looking for forever home

2012-11-20 Thread tamara stickler
No worries Kat, everybody has a bad day from time to time...esp. those of us 
who deal with enough unthinking pet owners that we have a short trigger - 
always expecting another one to come calling..-.or are afraid of being lumped 
in w/them.
 
Keep up the good work  have a nice Thanksgiving!  ;-)
 
T

--- On Mon, 11/19/12, Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] possible pos. BIG cat looking for forever home
To: tamara stickler tlstick...@yahoo.com
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Monday, November 19, 2012, 3:50 PM


You put that very well, and I did not mean to get in your face. I certainly 
understand,and I probably had no right to be so accusatory, but since you are 
in rescue, as well, you must understand the multitude of people who re 
clueless, in many respects, and I apologize for upsetting you.  I understand 
what you are saying, now.  Not that it is your duty to explain anything to me.  
Still, I appreciate the time you took to spell all of that out and put my 
little mind at ease.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
Perhaps this information will be useful to other folks on this list, then,
since Felv shortens lifespan in general.

Dogs are more likely to get both mammary cancer and pyometra than are cats,
and ovary retention seems to override this, along with their heat stresses.
   However, cats are polyestrous (go into heat several times a year)
whereas dogs are diestrous (two heat cycles a year), so cats have more heat
stresses, which may or may not override the ovary-retention effect.  Note
that breeders use various methods of getting cats they don't want pregnant
out of heat, so perhaps one could sufficiently reduce the stress to that of
a dog's.

I've heard of cats living to over 30, and since this study looks at the
outliers for what's possible, we might look at 30+ years as an upper bound
for cat longevity, at least non-Felv+ ones.



On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
 Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
 The spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
 My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
 all spayed.
 Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles,
 are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
 Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
 from not being spayed..

 There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
 not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.

 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/


   --
 *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a third
 longer?There's more to the overall story than just local stresses:
 http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools do not
 teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.


 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would wait
 for the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel done
 to make sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
 Hope all goes well.

 Beth

 Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued
 feral baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own
 room, isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we
 are retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
 Should we retest first and then spay?
 Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?
 
 Any suggestions are welcome
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org




 --
 
 Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

 If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save
 their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
 http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

 If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
 to free up cage space.


 Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
 implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

 Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
 http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

 Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

 More fun reading:
 http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

 More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
 http://vimeo.com/48445902



 Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
 http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537


 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org




-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill 

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread KG BarnCats
It's a very interesting article/study.  I think they are not advocating
that pets go unspayed but rather there be further study of spay where only
the uterus is removed.  But in addition to risks like mammary cancer, I
worry about spayed pets in heat and their hormonally driven efforts to
escape the house to mate.  How many pets are lost, injured and killed that
way?  How many pet owners will be upset by the pet's behaviors and possible
mess while the pet keeps cycling in heat?   It is a multi-faceted issue
that I hope gets more research.

Kg



On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Perhaps this information will be useful to other folks on this list,
then, since Felv shortens lifespan in general.
 Dogs are more likely to get both mammary cancer and pyometra than are
cats, and ovary retention seems to override this, along with their heat
stresses.However, cats are polyestrous (go into heat several times a
year) whereas dogs are diestrous (two heat cycles a year), so cats have
more heat stresses, which may or may not override the ovary-retention
effect.  Note that breeders use various methods of getting cats they don't
want pregnant out of heat, so perhaps one could sufficiently reduce the
stress to that of a dog's.
 I've heard of cats living to over 30, and since this study looks at the
outliers for what's possible, we might look at 30+ years as an upper bound
for cat longevity, at least non-Felv+ ones.


 On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
 Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
The spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
 My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
all spayed.
 Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat
cycles, are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
 Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
from not being spayed..

 There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.

 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org

 
 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a
third longer?There's more to the overall story than just local
stresses: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools
do not teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.

 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would
wait for the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel
done to make sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
 Hope all goes well.

 Beth

 Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued
feral baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own
room, isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we
are retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
 Should we retest first and then spay?
 Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?
 
 Any suggestions are welcome
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



 --
 
 Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
 If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save
their life.  Contact your local pound for information.
 If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life,
and to free up cage space.

 Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

 Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

 Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

 More fun reading:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

 More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



 Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Lee Evans
Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.  The 
vet didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an older 
cat and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge. So I 
didn't have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more times, then 
gave it up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with me as a house 
feral. One day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use towels to cover the 
plastic chairs in my house.  Everything here has to be washable).  I also 
noticed that Cookie was acting very lethargic.  I finally got her into a 
carrier.  At the clinic they flipped her over and I was horrified.  All her 
nipples were black, some were enlarged, two were bleeding.  She had severe 
mammary cancer.  The vet said she was probably in pain.  There was nothing I 
could do.  He gave her a pain injection.  She became drowsy and I allowed him 
to euthanize her.  I will NEVER NOT
 SPAY a cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason why 
cats and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all the 
time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do 
hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the cancers 
would metastasize and more people would die.  

In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat 
adopted.  It will just not work.

Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a 
vasectomy and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the 
operations costing almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that can 
be had for a cost as low as $15 including rabies shot.

I want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me to 
have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous argument 
that animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I allowed two 
intact cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens who, although I 
didn't know it, were FeLv positive and active for the disease.  They all died.  
Had I spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I would have saved 7 kittens from 
being born and dying in illness and discomfort and possibly saved mom and dad 
cats from wandering away to spread the disease all over the neighborhood.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
 

I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The 
spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all 
spayed.
Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles, are 
much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from 
not being spayed..

There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not 
getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.


Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 





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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread janine paton
The stress of an unspayed female is great, I think much greater than the 
spaying 
itself.  And it may be true that pyometria is more common in dogs, but boy have 
we seen plenty in outside cats, even young ones.  One couldn't have been more 
than a year old and we had no idea her slightly swollen belly was pyometria. 
 And have h ad a few with mammary cancer also.  Not worth it.  Use a decent vet 
and get your cat spayed!  




From: Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, November 20, 2012 8:57:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice


Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.  The 
vet 
didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an older cat 
and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge. So I didn't 
have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more times, then gave it 
up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with me as a house feral. 
One 
day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use towels to cover the plastic 
chairs 
in my house.  Everything here has to be washable).  I also noticed that Cookie 
was acting very lethargic.  I finally got her into a carrier.  At the clinic 
they flipped her over and I was horrified.  All her nipples were black, some 
were enlarged, two were bleeding.  She had severe mammary cancer.  The vet said 
she  was probably in pain.  There was nothing I could do.  He gave her a pain 
injection.  She became drowsy and I allowed him to euthanize her.  I will NEVER 
NOT SPAY a cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason 
why cats and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all 
the time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do 
hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the cancers 
would metastasize and more people would die.  


In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat 
adopted.  It will just not work.

Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a 
vasectomy 
and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the operations 
costing 
almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that can be had for a cost 
as low as $15 including rabies shot.

I  want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me to 
have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous argument 
that 
animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I allowed two intact 
cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens who, although I didn't 
know it, were FeLv positive and active for the disease.  They all died.  Had I 
spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I would have saved 7 kittens from being 
born and dying in illness and discomfort and possibly saved mom and dad cats 
from wandering away to spread the disease all over the neighborhood.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
 

I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The 
spay 
was easy  she recovered quickly.
My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all 
spayed.
Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles, are 
much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from 
not 
being spayed..

There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not 
getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.


Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 





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[Felvtalk] (no subject)

2012-11-20 Thread Lee Evans
Munchkin, a 5 year old cat I adopted from a neighbor, lived with me for 20 
years.  He was neutered before he got either FeLv or FIV fortunately.  
At least the neighbor had done that although Munchkin was allowed to 
roam the neighborhood.  He was a large, grey with an attitude and was 
noticed and admired by everyone. Munchkin didn't get into biting fights 
even though he was an outside cat.  I finally retired him to my cat 
enclosure for the last 5 years of his life.  Munchkin had many visitors 
in his retirement home.  Every so often a neighbor would pass by and 
ask if Munchkin was still with me and I would invite the person into the back 
yard to the cat enclosure where Munchkin would receive his guest 
with pride and diplomacy.  When he was around 24+ his kidneys began to 
fail and at 25 he passed away.


 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
neighbors too!___
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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Bonnie Hogue
Someone would get a male cat a vasectomy?  Or have a female cat's tubes
tied?

Wow.people are stupider than I thought.

B.

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
janine paton
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 

The stress of an unspayed female is great, I think much greater than the
spaying itself.  And it may be true that pyometria is more common in dogs,
but boy have we seen plenty in outside cats, even young ones.  One couldn't
have been more than a year old and we had no idea her slightly swollen belly
was pyometria.  And have h ad a few with mammary cancer also.  Not worth it.
Use a decent vet and get your cat spayed!  

 

  _  

From: Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, November 20, 2012 8:57:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.  The
vet didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an
older cat and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge.
So I didn't have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more
times, then gave it up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with
me as a house feral. One day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use
towels to cover the plastic chairs in my house.  Everything here has to be
washable).  I also noticed that Cookie was acting very lethargic.  I finally
got her into a carrier.  At the clinic they flipped her over and I was
horrified.  All her nipples were black, some were enlarged, two were
bleeding.  She had severe mammary cancer.  The vet said she was probably in
pain.  There was nothing I could do.  He gave her a pain injection.  She
became drowsy and I allowed him to euthanize her.  I will NEVER NOT SPAY a
cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason why cats
and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all the
time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do
hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the cancers
would metastasize and more people would die.  

In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat
adopted.  It will just not work.

Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a
vasectomy and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the
operations costing almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that
can be had for a cost as low as $15 including rabies shot.

I want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me to
have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous argument
that animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I allowed two
intact cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens who, although
I didn't know it, were FeLv positive and active for the disease.  They all
died.  Had I spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I would have saved 7
kittens from being born and dying in illness and discomfort and possibly
saved mom and dad cats from wandering away to spread the disease all over
the neighborhood.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
neighbors too!

 


  _  


From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 

I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The
spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all
spayed.
Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles,
are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from
not being spayed..

There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not
getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.

Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter!
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/21.gif  www.Furkids.org
http://www.furkids.org/ 

 

 


  _  


 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Beth
The ovaries are responsible for the heat cycle, so they would still go into 
heat  still be more prone to mammary cancer  stress.

KG BarnCats kgbarnc...@gmail.com wrote:

It's a very interesting article/study.  I think they are not advocating
that pets go unspayed but rather there be further study of spay where only
the uterus is removed.  But in addition to risks like mammary cancer, I
worry about spayed pets in heat and their hormonally driven efforts to
escape the house to mate.  How many pets are lost, injured and killed that
way?  How many pet owners will be upset by the pet's behaviors and possible
mess while the pet keeps cycling in heat?   It is a multi-faceted issue
that I hope gets more research.

Kg



On Tuesday, November 20, 2012, Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Perhaps this information will be useful to other folks on this list,
then, since Felv shortens lifespan in general.
 Dogs are more likely to get both mammary cancer and pyometra than are
cats, and ovary retention seems to override this, along with their heat
stresses.However, cats are polyestrous (go into heat several times a
year) whereas dogs are diestrous (two heat cycles a year), so cats have
more heat stresses, which may or may not override the ovary-retention
effect.  Note that breeders use various methods of getting cats they don't
want pregnant out of heat, so perhaps one could sufficiently reduce the
stress to that of a dog's.
 I've heard of cats living to over 30, and since this study looks at the
outliers for what's possible, we might look at 30+ years as an upper bound
for cat longevity, at least non-Felv+ ones.


 On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
 Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
The spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
 My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
all spayed.
 Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat
cycles, are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
 Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
from not being spayed..

 There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.

 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org

 
 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a
third longer?There's more to the overall story than just local
stresses: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools
do not teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.

 On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would
wait for the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel
done to make sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
 Hope all goes well.

 Beth

 Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued
feral baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own
room, isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we
are retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
 Should we retest first and then spay?
 Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?
 
 Any suggestions are welcome
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



 --
 
 Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
 If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save
their life.  Contact your local pound for information.
 If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life,
and to free up cage space.

 Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

 Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

 Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

 More fun reading:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

 More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



 Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 

Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread dlgegg

My Nitnoy and Annie were both pos and both were spayed.  Never seemed to affect 
either one.  Nitnoy's problem began much later when she developed plugged anal 
glands and they became infected.  Lesson for me, check those glands often.  
Annie still going strong.

 Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 I'm not going to start an argument over one study. 
Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had. The 
spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's - all 
spayed.
Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles, are 
much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra) from not 
being spayed..

There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about not 
getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.


Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice
 

If that's the case, then why do dogs who retain their ovaries live a third 
longer?    There's more to the overall story than just local 
stresses: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html   American vet schools do 
not teach any sterilizations other than spay/neuter.




On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

My vet said being in heat is more stressful than the surgery. I would wait for 
the retest, though. If still positive have a full bloodwork panel done to make 
sure she is healthy, just as you would for a senior kitty.
Hope all goes well.

Beth

Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello everyone,

We are looking at possibly spaying Kitty, our 5 months old FeLV rescued feral 
baby. She is currently on the lysine and living large in her own room, 
isolated from our other two cats, since she posted positive but we are 
retesting her at 6months, which should be in December.
Should we retest first and then spay?
Is there anything we should know/do to prepare ?

Any suggestions are welcome

Sent from my iPhone
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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

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Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

2012-11-20 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
Breeders have vasectomized males around to get their intact females out of
heat.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote:

 Someone would get a male cat a vasectomy?  Or have a female cat’s tubes
 tied?

 Wow…people are stupider than I thought…

 B.

 ** **

 *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
 Of *janine paton
 *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:27 PM
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 ** **

 The stress of an unspayed female is great, I think much greater than the
 spaying itself.  And it may be true that pyometria is more common in dogs,
 but boy have we seen plenty in outside cats, even young ones.  One couldn't
 have been more than a year old and we had no idea her slightly swollen
 belly was pyometria.  And have h ad a few with mammary cancer also.  Not
 worth it.  Use a decent vet and get your cat spayed!  

 ** **
 --

 *From:* Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Sent:* Tue, November 20, 2012 8:57:09 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 Amen to that sister.  My cat Cookie, long ago, was borderline diabetic.
 The vet didn't want to subject her to anesthesia because he said she was an
 older cat and might develop full blown diabetes since she was on the edge.
 So I didn't have her spayed.  She went into her heat cycle several more
 times, then gave it up as a bad idea.  She lived an additional 5 years with
 me as a house feral. One day I noticed blood on her chair towel (I use
 towels to cover the plastic chairs in my house.  Everything here has to be
 washable).  I also noticed that Cookie was acting very lethargic.  I
 finally got her into a carrier.  At the clinic they flipped her over and I
 was horrified.  All her nipples were black, some were enlarged, two were
 bleeding.  She had severe mammary cancer.  The vet said she was probably in
 pain.  There was nothing I could do.  He gave her a pain injection.  She
 became drowsy and I allowed him to euthanize her.  I will NEVER NOT SPAY a
 cat.  Male cats can get prostate cancer.  There is no proven reason why
 cats and dogs can't be spayed and neutered.  Humans have the operation all
 the time for ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.  If physicians didn't do
 hysterectomies on women with cancer or with precancerous lesions the
 cancers would metastasize and more people would die.

 In addition, try and get an intact spraying male cat or howling female cat
 adopted.  It will just not work.

 Or, as an alternative, get the female's tubes tied and give the male a
 vasectomy and you still have all the mating behavior in addition to the
 operations costing almost a thousand dollars as opposed to spay/neuter that
 can be had for a cost as low as $15 including rabies shot.

 I want to add that my mother, a registered nurse at the time, forbade me
 to have any of our yard cats neutered or spayed citing the ridiculous
 argument that animals and people have to be left natural.  Consequently I
 allowed two intact cats to remain that way, filling my yard with 7 kittens
 who, although I didn't know it, were FeLv positive and active for the
 disease.  They all died.  Had I spayed and neutered mom and dad cat, I
 would have saved 7 kittens from being born and dying in illness and
 discomfort and possibly saved mom and dad cats from wandering away to
 spread the disease all over the neighborhood.

 ** **

  

 *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!*

 ** **
 --

 *From:* Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:15 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Spaying advice

 ** **

 I'm not going to start an argument over one study.
 Being in heat was very stressful on the one of the 1st FeLV cats I had.
 The spay was easy  she recovered quickly.
 My cats have all been spayed. We've had cats live well into their 20's -
 all spayed.
 Cats who still have their ovaries, which are responsible for heat cycles,
 are much more likely to develop mammary cancer.
 Cats ( dogs) can also develop an infection in their uterus (pyometra)
 from not being spayed..

 There is just not enough evidence out there to make me even think about
 not getting my cats, FeLV or not,  spayed.

 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/*
 ***

  

 ** **
 --

 ** **


 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for