Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread Lorrie
Good for you Ardy. Please update us on what your vets say.
-
Lorrie 
-
On 10-23, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but
>they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one
>talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I would
>like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a group, or
>talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk about my
>Tigger's future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him, and he
>promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see what they
>have to say about it. I told him I wanted to know about Tigger's
>bloodwork (he has had blood tests, but no one has given me any results
>so I am really in the dark). I told him I want to be pro-active and not
>lose valuable time to treat things that pop up. He made a lot of
>promises to me, and I sincerely hope he follows through. I tried to
>impress upon him how important our little furball is to us, and that he
>deserves to have everything possible done for him. I told him I am
>willing to do the supportive care longterm or whatever is necessary,
>but did not want to do the unnecessary things. My goal is to change
>their minds about instantly writing off kitties who happen to be
>unfortunate enough to have this virus. I am so happy I found your group
>because I see that everyone who has posted seems to be of the same
>opinion.
> 
>Ardy Robertson
> 
>Osseo, WI

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[Felvtalk] FW: Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

2015-10-24 Thread Amani Oakley
No – it’s primarily for red cell production. It is used for this in humans too, 
with severe cases of genetically-caused anemia. I found it worked on all three 
cell lines though, but it was the RBC’s/haematocrit (PCV) values that bounced 
back first. I think that because it has stimulating effects on the bone marrow, 
this is why it eventually perks up production of white cells and platelets as 
well.

As I mentioned in my summary of what happened to Zander, we first noticed that 
Winstrol was having a positive effect because his gums started to pink up.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maya 
D'Alessio
Sent: October-24-15 7:36 AM
To: Margo; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

Question about the Winstrol - is it good for RBC too? or mostly just the WBC? 
Has anyone used it in concert with Epogen (Erythropoeitin)? Or used Epogen 
instead?

I'm concerned about the paleness of Merlot's gums. He still has decent energy 
though.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread dlgegg
Remember, they as well as human doctors are being TOLD a bunch of lies by BIG 
pharmaceutical companies.  If they don' tmake it they put it down.  Only the 
ones I make are good.  I get this all the time because I choose not to run to 
the doctor every time I get a scratch, hang nail, etc.  I must go to the doctor 
every 3 months to make sure I do not get sick and then I do get sick.  zi weill 
stick with my own meds, I stay well then


 Ardy Robertson  wrote: 
> You took the words out of my mouth--- they are prepared to inject drugs 
> that will immediately end the life of the cat, but are not willing to try a 
> drug that may possibly damage his liver, or could restore his health…HELLO!!!
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Amani Oakley
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 7:18 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> 
>  
> 
> Yes, I got the same impression. All the vets I have spoken with refer to this 
> potential for liver problems, but they all just seemed to jump off the 
> bandwagon and abandon the drug at that point. They didn’t continue to read 
> the research that established that there was no actual liver damage – just 
> spiking of liver enzymes which returned to normal later. 
> 
>  
> 
> And again, isn’t that our call?? Shouldn’t we be told that there is a drug 
> but here are the side-effects? Like you, Maya, I find it defies logic that 
> they are prepared to put your cat to sleep for goodness sake, but not 
> prepared to risk liver damage apparently. It makes no sense at all. 
> 
>  
> 
> Amani
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maya 
> D'Alessio
> Sent: October-23-15 8:14 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> 
>  
> 
> My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing potential liver 
> issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in most cats it went away 
> after coming off the drug, and if a cat is literally dying, then potential 
> liver side effects are much less of a concern. To me it seemed like the vets 
> don't want to use drugs that have side effects they are concerned about...but 
> then they wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! 
> I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and 
> has been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was quite 
> interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really interested in 
> hearing me out
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio   > wrote:
> 
> My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing potential liver 
> issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in most cats it went away 
> after coming off the drug, and if a cat is literally dying, then potential 
> liver side effects are much less of a concern. To me it seemed like the vets 
> don't want to use drugs that have side effects they are concerned about...but 
> then they wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! 
> I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and 
> has been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was quite 
> interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really interested in 
> hearing me out
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley   > wrote:
> 
> Ardy – good for you!
> 
>  
> 
> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back and tell 
> you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a bad outcome if 
> that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be left with “what-ifs”. That 
> has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well. This is MY cat 
> and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not too interested in whatever 
> weird perspectives they may have on what is politically okay or not okay 
> about Winstrol (and seriously – I think it IS all about athletic doping 
> scandals).
> 
>  
> 
> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> 
>  
> 
> Amani 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
>  ] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
> Sent: October-23-15 7:57 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> 
>  
> 
> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but they said 
> they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one talked to me and I 
> was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I would like the 4 vets in the 
> office to either speak with me in a group, or talk amongst themselves and 
> then I would come in and talk about my Tigger’s future 

Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread Amani Oakley
I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a lawsuit in 
the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that matter - they are 
just properly under the law) and second, writing down and signing that you take 
full responsibility in that circumstance, is an almost impossible hurdle to 
overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued very much at all, so I would be 
surprised if this was even a consideration for them here. I don’t know the 
circumstances in the U.S., but they are still considered property (chattel) so 
I doubt things would be much different in the legal sphere.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU 
SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.

 Maya D'Alessio  wrote: 
> My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing 
> potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in 
> most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is 
> literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of a 
> concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that 
> have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to 
> use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a two 
> vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has 
> been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was 
> quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really 
> interested in hearing me out
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio 
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing 
> > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but 
> > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is 
> > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of 
> > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs 
> > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they 
> > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! 
> > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very 
> > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've 
> > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other 
> > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley 
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Ardy – good for you!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back 
> >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a 
> >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be left 
> >> with “what-ifs”.
> >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well. 
> >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not 
> >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on what 
> >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I 
> >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Amani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On 
> >> Behalf Of *Ardy Robertson
> >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> >>
> >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but 
> >> they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one 
> >> talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I 
> >> would like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a 
> >> group, or talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk 
> >> about my Tigger’s future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him, 
> >> and he promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see 
> >> what they have to say about it. I told him I wanted to know about 
> >> Tigger’s bloodwork (he has had blood tests, but no one has given me 
> >> any results so I am really in the dark). I told him I want to be 
> >> pro-active and not lose valuable time to treat things that pop up. 
> >> He made a lot of promises to me, and I sincerely hope he follows 
> >> through. I tried to impress upon him how important our little 
> >> furball is to us, and that he deserves to have everything possible 
> >> done for him. I told him I am willing to do the supportive care 
> >> longterm or whatever is necessary, but did not want to do the 
> >> unnecessary things. My goal is to change their minds about 
> >> instantly writing off kitties who happen to be unfortunate enough to have 
> >> this virus. I am so happy I found 

Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread Kelley S
In Texas, they were found to be a special kind of property like a
photograph...but then that was rescinded...not sure what the status is
now..but at any rate you do sign a disclaimer saying you will not sue so...

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Amani Oakley 
wrote:

> I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a
> lawsuit in the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that matter
> - they are just properly under the law) and second, writing down and
> signing that you take full responsibility in that circumstance, is an
> almost impossible hurdle to overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued very
> much at all, so I would be surprised if this was even a consideration for
> them here. I don’t know the circumstances in the U.S., but they are still
> considered property (chattel) so I doubt things would be much different in
> the legal sphere.
>
> Amani
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> dlg...@windstream.net
> Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
>
> tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT
> YOU SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.
>
>  Maya D'Alessio  wrote:
> > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in
> > most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of a
> > concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that
> > have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to
> > use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a two
> > vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has
> > been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was
> > quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really
> > interested in hearing me out
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but
> > > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of
> > > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs
> > > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they
> > > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia!
> > > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very
> > > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've
> > > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other
> > > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ardy – good for you!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back
> > >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a
> > >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be
> left with “what-ifs”.
> > >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well.
> > >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not
> > >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on what
> > >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I
> > >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Amani
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
> > >> Behalf Of *Ardy Robertson
> > >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> > >>
> > >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but
> > >> they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one
> > >> talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I
> > >> would like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a
> > >> group, or talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk
> > >> about my Tigger’s future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him,
> > >> and he promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see
> > >> what they have to say about it. I told him I wanted to know about
> > >> Tigger’s bloodwork (he has had blood tests, but no one has given me
> > >> any results so I am really in the dark). I told him I want to be
> > >> pro-active and not lose valuable time to treat things that pop up.
> > >> He made a lot of promises to me, and I sincerely hope he follows
> > >> through. I tried to 

Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread dlgegg
tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU 
SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.

 Maya D'Alessio  wrote: 
> My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing potential
> liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in most cats it
> went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is literally dying, then
> potential liver side effects are much less of a concern. To me it seemed
> like the vets don't want to use drugs that have side effects they are
> concerned about...but then they wanted to use AZT which is associated with
> non-regenerative anemia! I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one
> vet is very understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what
> I've been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet
> is not really interested in hearing me out
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio 
> wrote:
> 
> > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing potential
> > liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in most cats it
> > went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is literally dying, then
> > potential liver side effects are much less of a concern. To me it seemed
> > like the vets don't want to use drugs that have side effects they are
> > concerned about...but then they wanted to use AZT which is associated with
> > non-regenerative anemia! I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one
> > vet is very understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what
> > I've been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet
> > is not really interested in hearing me out
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Ardy – good for you!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back and
> >> tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a bad outcome
> >> if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be left with “what-ifs”.
> >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well. This is MY
> >> cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not too interested in
> >> whatever weird perspectives they may have on what is politically okay or
> >> not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I think it IS all about athletic
> >> doping scandals).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Amani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> >> Of *Ardy Robertson
> >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> >>
> >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but they
> >> said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one talked to me
> >> and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I would like the 4 vets
> >> in the office to either speak with me in a group, or talk amongst
> >> themselves and then I would come in and talk about my Tigger’s future
> >> treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him, and he promised to check with
> >> the veterinary specialists and see what they have to say about it. I told
> >> him I wanted to know about Tigger’s bloodwork (he has had blood tests, but
> >> no one has given me any results so I am really in the dark). I told him I
> >> want to be pro-active and not lose valuable time to treat things that pop
> >> up. He made a lot of promises to me, and I sincerely hope he follows
> >> through. I tried to impress upon him how important our little furball is to
> >> us, and that he deserves to have everything possible done for him. I told
> >> him I am willing to do the supportive care longterm or whatever is
> >> necessary, but did not want to do the unnecessary things. My goal is to
> >> change their minds about instantly writing off kitties who happen to be
> >> unfortunate enough to have this virus. I am so happy I found your group
> >> because I see that everyone who has posted seems to be of the same opinion.
> >>
> >> Ardy Robertson
> >>
> >> Osseo, WI
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> >> ] *On Behalf Of *Maya D'Alessio
> >> *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2015 7:08 AM
> >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Good luck Kelley! Let me know how your vet reacts about the Winstrol.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:51 AM,  wrote:
> >>
> >> tHAT IS WHAT MY VET SAID WHEN i GOT ANNIE.  THE OTHERS ARE SAFE IF THEY
> >> ARE VACCINATED.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Kelley S  wrote:
> >> > Well, I am happy to say she is eating like a champ.  She ate one
> >> serviing
> >> > of Prowl today, plus a can of food, plus some dry 

Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread dlgegg
It is a shame that cats and dogs, any animal is "just property".  That reduces 
them to almost 'nothing in the law's eyes.  As property, do they not have any 
value?  They deserve respect at the very least.  Any one tell me my cats are 
just property and not deserving of love, respect and proper care had better be 
prepared to run as fast as he can.  Someone once said he would use them for 
target practice.  I told him he would be lying on the ground next to them.  

 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a lawsuit 
> in the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that matter - they 
> are just properly under the law) and second, writing down and signing that 
> you take full responsibility in that circumstance, is an almost impossible 
> hurdle to overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued very much at all, so I 
> would be surprised if this was even a consideration for them here. I don’t 
> know the circumstances in the U.S., but they are still considered property 
> (chattel) so I doubt things would be much different in the legal sphere.
> 
> Amani
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> dlg...@windstream.net
> Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> 
> tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU 
> SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.
> 
>  Maya D'Alessio  wrote: 
> > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing 
> > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in 
> > most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is 
> > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of a 
> > concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that 
> > have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to 
> > use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a two 
> > vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has 
> > been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was 
> > quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really 
> > interested in hearing me out
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio 
> > 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing 
> > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but 
> > > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is 
> > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of 
> > > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs 
> > > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they 
> > > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! 
> > > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very 
> > > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've 
> > > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other 
> > > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley 
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ardy – good for you!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back 
> > >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a 
> > >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be left 
> > >> with “what-ifs”.
> > >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well. 
> > >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not 
> > >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on what 
> > >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I 
> > >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Amani
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On 
> > >> Behalf Of *Ardy Robertson
> > >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> > >>
> > >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but 
> > >> they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one 
> > >> talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I 
> > >> would like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a 
> > >> group, or talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk 
> > >> about my Tigger’s future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him, 
> > >> and he promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see 
> > >> what they have to say about it. I told him I wanted to know about 
> > >> Tigger’s bloodwork (he has had 

Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread dlgegg
This is off topic, but I keep getting some of member emails in my trash box 
instead of the inbox.  Is this hapening to anyone else?

 Kelley S  wrote: 
> In Texas, they were found to be a special kind of property like a
> photograph...but then that was rescinded...not sure what the status is
> now..but at any rate you do sign a disclaimer saying you will not sue so...
> 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Amani Oakley 
> wrote:
> 
> > I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a
> > lawsuit in the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that matter
> > - they are just properly under the law) and second, writing down and
> > signing that you take full responsibility in that circumstance, is an
> > almost impossible hurdle to overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued very
> > much at all, so I would be surprised if this was even a consideration for
> > them here. I don’t know the circumstances in the U.S., but they are still
> > considered property (chattel) so I doubt things would be much different in
> > the legal sphere.
> >
> > Amani
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> > dlg...@windstream.net
> > Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> >
> > tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER WHAT
> > YOU SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.
> >
> >  Maya D'Alessio  wrote:
> > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but in
> > > most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of a
> > > concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that
> > > have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to
> > > use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a two
> > > vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has
> > > been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was
> > > quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really
> > > interested in hearing me out
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
> > > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but
> > > > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
> > > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of
> > > > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs
> > > > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they
> > > > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia!
> > > > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very
> > > > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've
> > > > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other
> > > > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Ardy – good for you!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back
> > > >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal with a
> > > >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be
> > left with “what-ifs”.
> > > >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well.
> > > >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not
> > > >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on what
> > > >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I
> > > >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for you.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Amani
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On
> > > >> Behalf Of *Ardy Robertson
> > > >> *Sent:* October-23-15 7:57 PM
> > > >>
> > > >> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I called both of my vet offices today. One was too busy to talk but
> > > >> they said they would call me back tomorrow morning. The other one
> > > >> talked to me and I was quite firm (proud of myself) telling him I
> > > >> would like the 4 vets in the office to either speak with me in a
> > > >> group, or talk amongst themselves and then I would come in and talk
> > > >> about my Tigger’s future treatment. I talked about Winstrol to him,
> > > >> and he promised to check with the veterinary specialists and see
> > > >> what they 

[Felvtalk] Fwd: Coco update

2015-10-24 Thread Kelley S
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Kelley S  wrote:

> I personally am extremely glad they are property.  Otherwise some other
> person who thinks they know better could decide Coco should be euthanized
> because she is positive, could see my dog out running around in my yard and
> think that is not good and take him and put him in their car and leave,
> such things have already happened.   I don't want a CPS like organization
> deciding how my animals should be taken care of and when they should be
> PTS.
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:48 PM,  wrote:
>
>> This is off topic, but I keep getting some of member emails in my trash
>> box instead of the inbox.  Is this hapening to anyone else?
>>
>>  Kelley S  wrote:
>> > In Texas, they were found to be a special kind of property like a
>> > photograph...but then that was rescinded...not sure what the status is
>> > now..but at any rate you do sign a disclaimer saying you will not sue
>> so...
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Amani Oakley 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I'm a lawyer. First, I can tell you that there wouldn’t be much of a
>> > > lawsuit in the passing of an ill cat (or even a healthy one for that
>> matter
>> > > - they are just properly under the law) and second, writing down and
>> > > signing that you take full responsibility in that circumstance, is an
>> > > almost impossible hurdle to overcome. Vets in Canada don’t get sued
>> very
>> > > much at all, so I would be surprised if this was even a consideration
>> for
>> > > them here. I don’t know the circumstances in the U.S., but they are
>> still
>> > > considered property (chattel) so I doubt things would be much
>> different in
>> > > the legal sphere.
>> > >
>> > > Amani
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On
>> Behalf Of
>> > > dlg...@windstream.net
>> > > Sent: October-24-15 3:57 PM
>> > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Coco update
>> > >
>> > > tHEY ALSO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF LAWSUITS, THE CAT DIES AND NO MATTER
>> WHAT
>> > > YOU SAID BEFORE, YOU MIGHT SUE.
>> > >
>> > >  Maya D'Alessio  wrote:
>> > > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
>> > > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but
>> in
>> > > > most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat is
>> > > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less of
>> a
>> > > > concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs that
>> > > > have side effects they are concerned about...but then they wanted to
>> > > > use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative anemia! I have a
>> two
>> > > > vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very understanding and has
>> > > > been doing lots of research in to what I've been sending (she was
>> > > > quite interested in the LTCI), but the other vet is not really
>> > > > interested in hearing me out
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Maya D'Alessio
>> > > > 
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > My vet seemed to really be influenced by the one study citing
>> > > > > potential liver issues. I get it, it could cause liver issues, but
>> > > > > in most cats it went away after coming off the drug, and if a cat
>> is
>> > > > > literally dying, then potential liver side effects are much less
>> of
>> > > > > a concern. To me it seemed like the vets don't want to use drugs
>> > > > > that have side effects they are concerned about...but then they
>> > > > > wanted to use AZT which is associated with non-regenerative
>> anemia!
>> > > > > I have a two vet practice that I go to, the one vet is very
>> > > > > understanding and has been doing lots of research in to what I've
>> > > > > been sending (she was quite interested in the LTCI), but the other
>> > > > > vet is not really interested in hearing me out
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Amani Oakley
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> Ardy – good for you!
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Frankly, though, with the Winstrol, no matter what they come back
>> > > > >> and tell you, I would insist. None of them will have to deal
>> with a
>> > > > >> bad outcome if that happens with Tigger, and you don’t want to be
>> > > left with “what-ifs”.
>> > > > >> That has been my attitude since all this happened to me as well.
>> > > > >> This is MY cat and I hold MY cat’s life in my hands and I am not
>> > > > >> too interested in whatever weird perspectives they may have on
>> what
>> > > > >> is politically okay or not okay about Winstrol (and seriously – I
>> > > > >> think it IS all about athletic doping scandals).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I am very proud of you Ardy. Let us know how things go for 

Re: [Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

2015-10-24 Thread Maya D'Alessio
Question about the Winstrol - is it good for RBC too? or mostly just the
WBC? Has anyone used it in concert with Epogen (Erythropoeitin)? Or used
Epogen instead?

I'm concerned about the paleness of Merlot's gums. He still has decent
energy though.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Margo 
wrote:

>
>
> Sort of. Cats get Panleukopenia (FPV), which is Feline Parvo Virus. In
> fact, the dog "parvo" test is used to diagnose cats with Panleuk. Shelters
> generally give a 3 or 4-way vaccine to kittens oras part of  intake
> protocol but rabies is separate, since it's not given until 3-4 months. The
> usual composition of cat 3 way is Panleukopenia (FPV) feline
> rhinotracheitis and calici, 4 way adds feline Chlamydia psittaci. Of
> course, all shelters may do things differently, but FIV is an expensive
> vaccine, and cats should be chipped and/or tattooed to reflect the
> vaccination.
>
> Margo
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kelley S
> Sent: Oct 23, 2015 9:26 PM
> To: felvtalk
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>
> Parvo would be for dogs...cats cannot get parvoI don't know of any
> vets who recommend FIV vaccinations...they do not work well and the cat
> will always test positive for FIV after...
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM,  wrote:
>
>> To prevent the disease, you need to treat it and vets do not seem to get
>> that.  Only by treating and learning about it can we prevent it.
>>
>>  Ardy Robertson  wrote:
>> > Thank you very much for this information Amani.
>> >
>> > Possibly another reason they don’t want to treat FeLV+ cats is that
>> they somehow feel “getting rid” of them is helping to not spread the
>> disease. My thought is that most spreading is probably done from mother cat
>> to baby, and of course in those rare homes that have very large numbers of
>> poorly-cared-for cats. They are not really trusting owners of FeLV+ cats to
>> be responsible enough to not allow it to spread. I have also now read that
>> cats that are over 11 months of age probably have enough of an immune
>> system to not get the disease even if they are near positive cats. Although
>> I would not take that chance and ever let them run outdoors or be around
>> other cats.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Ardy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Amani Oakley
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:03 PM
>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> > Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arty, again, this is an email I tried to post early this morning, but
>> for some reason it didn’t go through to the Listserve, so I am reposting:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Amani Oakley
>> > Sent: October-21-15 11:51 AM
>> > To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org'
>> > Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Arty, the Winstrol is an anabolic steroid so it really just works by
>> bulking up the body, repairing damaged tissue, and also has a strong
>> ability to treat serious anemia by working directly on the red blood cell
>> producing cells in the bone marrow and erythropoietin production in the
>> kidneys. Erythropoietin is the substance that the body produces that tells
>> it to make more red cells.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It is NOT the same kind of steroid as prednisolone, etc., so it can be
>> used with other types of steroids, with pain meds and with antibiotics,
>> etc., without interfering with their activity.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > My frustration comes from the fact that this drug was basically pulled
>> because it is associated with doping scandals in professional athletes
>> (they use it to become stronger and faster and to heal and recover from
>> workouts faster), so it became a drug whose name you can’t mention and is
>> tough to get sometimes. Also, there was a scientific study suggesting liver
>> damage with its use, but the rest of the scientific literature just doesn’t
>> seem to have borne this out and it certainly isn’t my experience. So here
>> we have this relatively inexpensive, fairly effective option, with little
>> downside risk, and quick effects usually, and the vets would rather tell us
>> there is no hope and to euthanize our cats, than suggest this medication.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I just don’t get it, and I have some very good friends who are high up
>> in the echelons of the vet community, so believe me when I tell you that I
>> have had this discussion on many occasions!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Amani
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Ardy Robertson
>> > Sent: October-20-15 11:10 PM
>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you so much Amani – it really sounds like you have done your
>> homework!! And that’s 

[Felvtalk] Feline vaccines was/: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

2015-10-24 Thread Margo
Sort of. Cats get Panleukopenia (FPV), which is Feline Parvo Virus. In fact, the dog "parvo" test is used to diagnose cats with Panleuk. Shelters generally give a 3 or 4-way vaccine to kittens oras part of  intake protocol but rabies is separate, since it's not given until 3-4 months. The usual composition of cat 3 way is Panleukopenia (FPV)  feline rhinotracheitis and calici, 4 way adds feline Chlamydia psittaci. Of course, all shelters may do things differently, but FIV is an expensive vaccine, and cats should be chipped and/or tattooed to reflect the vaccination.Margo-Original Message-
From: Kelley S 
Sent: Oct 23, 2015 9:26 PM
To: felvtalk 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))

Parvo would be for dogs...cats cannot get parvoI don't know of any vets who recommend FIV vaccinations...they do not work well and the cat will always test positive for FIV after...On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 6:50 PM,   wrote:To prevent the disease, you need to treat it and vets do not seem to get that.  Only by treating and learning about it can we prevent it.

 Ardy Robertson  wrote:
> Thank you very much for this information Amani.
>
> Possibly another reason they don’t want to treat FeLV+ cats is that they somehow feel “getting rid” of them is helping to not spread the disease. My thought is that most spreading is probably done from mother cat to baby, and of course in those rare homes that have very large numbers of poorly-cared-for cats. They are not really trusting owners of FeLV+ cats to be responsible enough to not allow it to spread. I have also now read that cats that are over 11 months of age probably have enough of an immune system to not get the disease even if they are near positive cats. Although I would not take that chance and ever let them run outdoors or be around other cats.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:03 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>
>
>
> Arty, again, this is an email I tried to post early this morning, but for some reason it didn’t go through to the Listserve, so I am reposting:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Amani Oakley
> Sent: October-21-15 11:51 AM
> To: 'felvtalk@felineleukemia.org'
> Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>
>
>
> Arty, the Winstrol is an anabolic steroid so it really just works by bulking up the body, repairing damaged tissue, and also has a strong ability to treat serious anemia by working directly on the red blood cell producing cells in the bone marrow and erythropoietin production in the kidneys. Erythropoietin is the substance that the body produces that tells it to make more red cells.
>
>
>
> It is NOT the same kind of steroid as prednisolone, etc., so it can be used with other types of steroids, with pain meds and with antibiotics, etc., without interfering with their activity.
>
>
>
> My frustration comes from the fact that this drug was basically pulled because it is associated with doping scandals in professional athletes (they use it to become stronger and faster and to heal and recover from workouts faster), so it became a drug whose name you can’t mention and is tough to get sometimes. Also, there was a scientific study suggesting liver damage with its use, but the rest of the scientific literature just doesn’t seem to have borne this out and it certainly isn’t my experience. So here we have this relatively inexpensive, fairly effective option, with little downside risk, and quick effects usually, and the vets would rather tell us there is no hope and to euthanize our cats, than suggest this medication.
>
>
>
> I just don’t get it, and I have some very good friends who are high up in the echelons of the vet community, so believe me when I tell you that I have had this discussion on many occasions!
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
> Sent: October-20-15 11:10 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stanozolol (Winstrol(R))
>
>
>
> Thank you so much Amani – it really sounds like you have done your homework!! And that’s just it – this happened so fast and took us so off-guard that I didn’t have any knowledge of what to do. We took him in on a Sunday night, and after putting some “puzzle pieces” together, I think he was getting sick for a while and I just did not pick up on it. We had been gone for a couple days, then we had company at our house so he was kind of out of sight and I figured he just didn’t like the people, when actually he usually loves people. He had felt hot a couple of times, but both times he was lying on a window sill with the sun shining directly on him. Our regular vet was out so a different animal hospital