Re: [Felvtalk] FelV kitten

[Amani Oakley]

Frankly, it is not too late at all for the Winstrol. I have seen it pull back 
cats with a much much lower haematocrit than Robert is seeing.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
Sent: December-24-16 5:49 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] FelV kitten

Robert,  I am so sorry you are going thru this. I have lost many kittens who 
were born with the virus, which they got from their mother who was feral. All 
these precious kittens died at less than a year.  At first they were so playful 
and looked so healthy I thought the two tests I'd had were surely wrong, but at 
8 months I started to lose them one by one.  The 4th and last (my favorite) 
made it to 11 months.  I was devastated.

On the other hand I have had several older cats at my sanctuary who must have 
contracted the virus when older.  One died suddenly at 7 years old and the 
other is now 8 years old, and she has never been sick. 
You never know what will happen.  

If you had started your little guy on Winstrol a few weeks ago it might have 
saved his life, but it is probably too late now. 

I just wanted to tell you I am so sorry, and I know what you are going thru.

Lorrie with 13 rescued cats at home and 32 in my sanctuary.


On 12-24, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> Amani et al
> 
> Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia 
> in a FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the 
> vet states HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken 
> aback and didn't ask nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear 
> that she felt it was time to put the little guy down.   I am at 
> the end of my money at this point and cannot take him to a bunch of 
> other vets hoping one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that 
> is showing itself to be effective with others cats...( I don't think I 
> am going to get a lot of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I 
> gave her my opinion of her unwillingness to help me through 
> unconventional means).Nor can I afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and 
> more definitive narrowing of the parameters of his drop in blood 
> values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all gone from the office)   As 
> much as I would like to save this little guy... He has so many other 
> things wrong with him that I don't know that I am doing him any 
> favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full pound in the last 
> 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is still eating 
> heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is it kinder 
> to put him down or allow nature to take it's course??.The idea of 
> him suffering from an inability to get enough O2 is unacceptable
> any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
> what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
> experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK 
> and I WILL find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..
> 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58

[Amani Oakley]

Bob

At 14 haematocrit, you've got a ways to go before your boy is in crisis. I know 
you have tried everything Bob, and you are struggling with costs, but if you 
could find a vet to prescribe the drug combination we have discussed, would you 
do it? It isn’t all that expensive really. If you tell me or Ardy directly , 
where you are located, we can try to find a vet through Diamond Back 
compounding pharmacy. I know how attached you are to your little boy, and 
frankly, if he is still eating, I wouldn’t give up on him yet.

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT 
CHAPEL
Sent: December-24-16 2:54 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58

Amani et al

Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in a FeLV 
catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet states HCT of 14 
and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and didn't ask nearly enough 
questions but it was VERY clear that she felt it was time to put the little guy 
down.   I am at the end of my money at this point and cannot take him to a 
bunch of other vets hoping one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that 
is showing itself to be effective with others cats...( I don't think I am going 
to get a lot of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I gave her my 
opinion of her unwillingness to help me through unconventional means).Nor 
can I afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more definitive narrowing of the 
parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all gone 
from the office)   As much as I would like to save this little guy... He 
has so many other things wrong with him that I don't know that I am doing him 
any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full pound in the last 6 
months If it weren't for the fact that he is still eating heartily I'd put 
him down Without further treatment is it kinder to put him down or allow 
nature to take it's course??.The idea of him suffering from an inability to 
get enough O2 is unacceptable
any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and I WILL 
find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..



On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
wrote:

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>
>1. FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Amani Oakley)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:16:02 +
> From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: 
> [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Randy
>
> The news is good. Whatever works. I am a big believer in keeping close 
> tabs on the bloodwork and adjusting the medication, depending on what 
> the lab results show.
>
> Given that Curley is eating and you are getting an improvement on the 
> red cells already, I agree that the Winstrol and Doxy should help even 
> more. Keep track of the blood work and adjust accordingly.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-23-16 11:02 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
> The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a 
> good way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is 
> critically low. White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone 
> her white cell count is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red 
> blood cell count is up to 13 which is still very low but a very 
> significant increase in just one week. So the Prednisone alone is 
> making a big difference. We've now had two positive ELISA tests, a 
> negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding well to just 
> Prednisone. I am very confused. Even our vet seems surprised by the 
> sudden improvement in her numbers. He thinks we should do a bone 
> marrow biopsy for a definitive FELV diagnosis but I don't really want 
> to put her through that procedure.
> We did start the Winstrol a day ago so I would think that could only 
> help more. We should be tapering 

[Felvtalk] FelV kitten

[Lorrie]

Robert,  I am so sorry you are going thru this. I have lost many
kittens who were born with the virus, which they got from their
mother who was feral. All these precious kittens died at less than a
year.  At first they were so playful and looked so healthy I thought
the two tests I'd had were surely wrong, but at 8 months I started to
lose them one by one.  The 4th and last (my favorite) made it to 11
months.  I was devastated.

On the other hand I have had several older cats at my sanctuary who must 
have contracted the virus when older.  One died suddenly at 7 years
old and the other is now 8 years old, and she has never been sick. 
You never know what will happen.  

If you had started your little guy on Winstrol a few weeks ago it
might have saved his life, but it is probably too late now. 

I just wanted to tell you I am so sorry, and I know what you are
going thru.

Lorrie with 13 rescued cats at home and 32 in my sanctuary.


On 12-24, ROBERT CHAPEL wrote:
> Amani et al
> 
> Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in 
> a FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet 
> states HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and 
> didn't ask nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear that she felt 
> it was time to put the little guy down.   I am at the end of my 
> money at this point and cannot take him to a bunch of other vets hoping 
> one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that is showing itself to 
> be effective with others cats...( I don't think I am going to get a lot 
> of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I gave her my opinion of 
> her unwillingness to help me through unconventional means).Nor can I 
> afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more definitive narrowing of the 
> parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all 
> gone from the office)   As much as I would like to save this little 
> guy... He has so many other things wrong with him that I don't know that 
> I am doing him any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full 
> pound in the last 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is 
> still eating heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is 
> it kinder to put him down or allow nature to take it's course??.The 
> idea of him suffering from an inability to get enough O2 is 
> unacceptable
> any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
> what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
> experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and 
> I WILL find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..
> 

___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58

[Margo]

Robert I am so very sorry. I don't have any answers for you. I don't think 
there's any way to judge how long your baby has, there are too many factors 
that can contribute. Much depends on how quickly the count has dropped, or is 
dropping. Some cats adjust well, ad can be comfortable for a long time.

I am more likely to let nature take it's course, as long as the cat is eating 
and feeling well, but I know it's an unpopular position. Since most of my cats 
have feral/stray origins, their perception of a Vet's office is not positive, 
and for their last moments to be fearful is not what I want. It's always a hard 
call for me. 

I can say that I would be unlikely to go for the extra testing at this point. I 
see no possible benefit for your cat.

I'm sorry. I don't have any answers.

Wishing  you peace,

Margo



-Original Message-
>From: ROBERT CHAPEL 
>Sent: Dec 24, 2016 2:53 PM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58
>
>Amani et al
>
>Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in 
>a FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet 
>states HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and 
>didn't ask nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear that she felt 
>it was time to put the little guy down.   I am at the end of my 
>money at this point and cannot take him to a bunch of other vets hoping 
>one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that is showing itself to 
>be effective with others cats...( I don't think I am going to get a lot 
>of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I gave her my opinion of 
>her unwillingness to help me through unconventional means).Nor can I 
>afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more definitive narrowing of the 
>parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all 
>gone from the office)   As much as I would like to save this little 
>guy... He has so many other things wrong with him that I don't know that 
>I am doing him any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full 
>pound in the last 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is 
>still eating heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is 
>it kinder to put him down or allow nature to take it's course??.The 
>idea of him suffering from an inability to get enough O2 is 
>unacceptable
>any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
>what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
>experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and 
>I WILL find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..
>
>
>
>On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
>wrote:
>
>> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>>  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>  felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>  felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Amani Oakley)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:16:02 +
>> From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: 
>> [Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> The news is good. Whatever works. I am a big believer in keeping close 
>> tabs on the bloodwork and adjusting the medication, depending on what 
>> the lab results show.
>>
>> Given that Curley is eating and you are getting an improvement on the 
>> red cells already, I agree that the Winstrol and Doxy should help even 
>> more. Keep track of the blood work and adjust accordingly.
>>
>> Amani
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
>> Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-23-16 11:02 AM
>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>> The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a 
>> good way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is 
>> critically low. White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone 
>> her white cell count is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red 
>> blood cell count is up to 13 which is still very low but a very 
>> significant increase in just one week. So the Prednisone alone is 
>> making a big difference. We've now had two positive ELISA tests, a 
>> negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding well to just 
>> Prednisone. I am 

Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58

[Amy Glunt]

Robert,
Have you tried Pet-Tinic or Liqui-Tinic? They are liquid iron supplements for 
cats. I have a bottle that I haven't used much of, I'm happy to mail it to you 
if you send me your address directly. Not sure how much it would help your boy, 
but it's better than nothing. 

Amy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2016, at 1:53 PM, ROBERT CHAPEL  wrote:
> 
> Amani et al
> 
> Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in a 
> FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet states 
> HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and didn't ask 
> nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear that she felt it was time to 
> put the little guy down.   I am at the end of my money at this point and 
> cannot take him to a bunch of other vets hoping one will be willing to 
> prescribe the cocktail that is showing itself to be effective with others 
> cats...( I don't think I am going to get a lot of cooperation from the Vet I 
> was using after I gave her my opinion of her unwillingness to help me through 
> unconventional means).Nor can I afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more 
> definitive narrowing of the parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's 
> Xmas eve and they are all gone from the office)   As much as I would like 
> to save this little guy... He has so many other things wrong with him that I 
> don't know that I
  am doing him any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full pound in 
the last 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is still eating 
heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is it kinder to put him 
down or allow nature to take it's course??.The idea of him suffering from 
an inability to get enough O2 is unacceptable
> any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: what I _ 
> should_ do.I have learned an immense amount from this experience and 
> will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and I WILL find someone 
> eventually that is willing to work with me..
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org wrote:
>> 
>> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>>felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Amani Oakley)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:16:02 +
>> From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: 
>>  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> The news is good. Whatever works. I am a big believer in keeping close tabs 
>> on the bloodwork and adjusting the medication, depending on what the lab 
>> results show.
>> 
>> Given that Curley is eating and you are getting an improvement on the red 
>> cells already, I agree that the Winstrol and Doxy should help even more. 
>> Keep track of the blood work and adjust accordingly.
>> 
>> Amani
>> 
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-23-16 11:02 AM
>> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>> 
>> The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a good 
>> way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is critically low. 
>> White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone her white cell count 
>> is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red blood cell count is up to 
>> 13 which is still very low but a very significant increase in just one week. 
>> So the Prednisone alone is making a big difference. We've now had two 
>> positive ELISA tests, a negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding 
>> well to just Prednisone. I am very confused. Even our vet seems surprised by 
>> the sudden improvement in her numbers. He thinks we should do a bone marrow 
>> biopsy for a definitive FELV diagnosis but I don't really want to put her 
>> through that procedure.
>> We did start the Winstrol a day ago so I would think that could only help 
>> more. We should be tapering down the Prednisone dose at this time but our 
>> vet now wants to continue the full dosage for another two weeks before 
>> running another CBC. And the Doxy will be started on Monday. I'm beginning 
>> to think she might pull out of this crisis and we might have a little more 

Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 58

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Amani et al

Any idea of the life expectancy of untreated non regenerative anemia in 
a FeLV catGot a call on Yogi's  Most Recent Bloodwork and the vet 
states HCT of 14 and non regenerative anemia  I was taken aback and 
didn't ask nearly enough questions but it was VERY clear that she felt 
it was time to put the little guy down.   I am at the end of my 
money at this point and cannot take him to a bunch of other vets hoping 
one will be willing to prescribe the cocktail that is showing itself to 
be effective with others cats...( I don't think I am going to get a lot 
of cooperation from the Vet I was using after I gave her my opinion of 
her unwillingness to help me through unconventional means).Nor can I 
afford Bone Marrow Biopsies and more definitive narrowing of the 
parameters of his drop in blood values ( it's Xmas eve and they are all 
gone from the office)   As much as I would like to save this little 
guy... He has so many other things wrong with him that I don't know that 
I am doing him any favors. Temp is 104...weight has dropped a full 
pound in the last 6 months If it weren't for the fact that he is 
still eating heartily I'd put him down Without further treatment is 
it kinder to put him down or allow nature to take it's course??.The 
idea of him suffering from an inability to get enough O2 is 
unacceptable
any suggestions are welcome but... please...  no admonitions re: 
what I _ should_ do.    I have learned an immense amount from this 
experience and will NOT repeat it...  My other boy is still doing OK and 
I WILL find someone eventually that is willing to work with me..




On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 01:00 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:



Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	 
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Amani Oakley)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:16:02 +
From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: 
[Felvtalk] FW:  FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Randy

The news is good. Whatever works. I am a big believer in keeping close 
tabs on the bloodwork and adjusting the medication, depending on what 
the lab results show.


Given that Curley is eating and you are getting an improvement on the 
red cells already, I agree that the Winstrol and Doxy should help even 
more. Keep track of the blood work and adjust accordingly.


Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
Of Randy Henke

Sent: December-23-16 11:02 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a 
good way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is 
critically low. White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone 
her white cell count is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red 
blood cell count is up to 13 which is still very low but a very 
significant increase in just one week. So the Prednisone alone is 
making a big difference. We've now had two positive ELISA tests, a 
negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding well to just 
Prednisone. I am very confused. Even our vet seems surprised by the 
sudden improvement in her numbers. He thinks we should do a bone 
marrow biopsy for a definitive FELV diagnosis but I don't really want 
to put her through that procedure.
We did start the Winstrol a day ago so I would think that could only 
help more. We should be tapering down the Prednisone dose at this time 
but our vet now wants to continue the full dosage for another two 
weeks before running another CBC. And the Doxy will be started on 
Monday. I'm beginning to think she might pull out of this crisis and 
we might have a little more time with her.


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Ardy Robertson > wrote:
Best of luck to you with Curly  just wanted to mention there are 
appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used 
with Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a 
pill every 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can?t remember the 
name of it.


Ardy
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