Re: [Felvtalk] Follow-up

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Molly

I am crossing my fingers for you. I am glad your vet was on board. We are all 
praying for your little girl.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Molly 
Mou
Sent: March-02-17 8:10 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Follow-up

Amani,

Sorry to have you repeat your post, but that was very helpful.

Good news! I took Mia to Vet's and my vet was totally on board with Zander's 
Protocol. I gave her a printout of some of the info you sent. She even said she 
had no problem with the Winstrol. I'm just waiting for the pharmacy to compound 
it. We did a CBC - her reticulocytes are very low and the hematocrit is 15-16%. 
I'm hoping this helps her and we can have a few more years. We been together 
since she was 4 days old.

Here goes.

Thanks everyone for all our support.
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[Felvtalk] Follow-up

[Molly Mou]

Amani,
Sorry to have you repeat your post, but that was very helpful. 
Good news! I took Mia to Vet's and my vet was totally on board with Zander's 
Protocol. I gave her a printout of some of the info you sent. She even said she 
had no problem with the Winstrol. I'm just waiting for the pharmacy to compound 
it. We did a CBC - her reticulocytes are very low and the hematocrit is 15-16%. 
I'm hoping this helps her and we can have a few more years. We been together 
since she was 4 days old. 
Here goes. 
Thanks everyone for all our support. ___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] In my defense...

[Amani Oakley]

Yeah - I found a black light indispensable. It used to drive me nuts that I 
could smell the urine somewhere and I would clean and clean and could still 
smell it. The black light helped end the madness!

Amani

-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
dlg...@windstream.net
Sent: March-02-17 5:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] In my defense...

To find where he ahs gone, use a black light.

 Jennifer Olson  wrote: 
> Figaro has urinated on the bed at least once before (didn't wake me 
> up, but I was in bed), on a wall & somewhere yet to be discovered 
> (somehow he got it on back of his neck that time!). I will try to find 
> that other product Margo recommends.


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Re: [Felvtalk] In my defense...

[dlgegg]

To find where he ahs gone, use a black light.

 Jennifer Olson  wrote: 
> Figaro has urinated on the bed at least once before (didn't wake me up, but
> I was in bed), on a wall & somewhere yet to be discovered (somehow he got
> it on back of his neck that time!). I will try to find that other product
> Margo recommends.


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[Felvtalk] In my defense...

[Jennifer Olson]

Figaro has urinated on the bed at least once before (didn't wake me up, but
I was in bed), on a wall & somewhere yet to be discovered (somehow he got
it on back of his neck that time!). I will try to find that other product
Margo recommends.
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Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

I agree, please give him another chance.  Don't give up on him.  I know it is a 
problem, but don't let your frustration get to you and then transfer to him.  
Take a deep breath, say a prayer. He isn't doing this to be mean or contrary, 
there is a problem that causes this.
 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Jen
> 
> Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive 
> and disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often 
> it signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who 
> squatted right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got 
> the sense that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he 
> seemed particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other 
> oddities which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a 
> small break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or 
> caught in a door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were 
> resulting in this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and 
> bowel are found in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that 
> area (a fall, hit by a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in 
> the opposite direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.
> 
> There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
> just not feeling right.
> 
> I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
> have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
> FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
> putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
> surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
> Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
> recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.
> 
> I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens 
> the body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may 
> be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that 
> it would be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as 
> invasive as spaying.
> 
> Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
> status and peeing issues.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jennifer Olson
> Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> 
> Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
> I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...
> 
> On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
> > wrote:
> Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
> references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
> them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
> databases ( for free)...
> 
> VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
> that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
> via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
> opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
> was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
> have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
> had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
> house to do so : )
> You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
> HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
> Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
> they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to 
> easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 
> 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones 
> expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will 
> now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours 
> as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other 
> avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to 
> preserve our FeLV cats lives.
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to 
> interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but 
> here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:
> 
> - Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in 
> vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015
> 
> - Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline 
> induced activation of a minimal RNA 

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

I was going to say urinary tract infection.  Harley and Homey have both had 
that and peed just in front of the box.  Went to the vet and got meds.  Neither 
one was too happy about taking the medicine, but I found that if I sit in the 
recliner, wedge them between myself and the arm of the chair, then my left hand 
is free to pry open their mouth and with the right hand administer the meds.  
It takes a bit of practice, but gets the job done

 Amani Oakley  wrote: 
> Jen
> 
> Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive 
> and disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often 
> it signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who 
> squatted right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got 
> the sense that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he 
> seemed particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other 
> oddities which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a 
> small break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or 
> caught in a door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were 
> resulting in this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and 
> bowel are found in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that 
> area (a fall, hit by a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in 
> the opposite direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.
> 
> There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
> just not feeling right.
> 
> I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
> have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
> FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
> putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
> surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
> Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
> recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.
> 
> I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens 
> the body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may 
> be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that 
> it would be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as 
> invasive as spaying.
> 
> Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
> status and peeing issues.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jennifer Olson
> Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> 
> Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
> I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...
> 
> On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
> > wrote:
> Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
> references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
> them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
> databases ( for free)...
> 
> VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
> that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
> via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
> opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
> was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
> have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
> had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
> house to do so : )
> You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
> HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
> Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
> they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to 
> easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 
> 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones 
> expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will 
> now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours 
> as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other 
> avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to 
> preserve our FeLV cats lives.
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to 
> interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but 
> here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:
> 
> - Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis 

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Amani Oakley]

Jen

Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive and 
disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often it 
signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who squatted 
right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got the sense 
that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he seemed 
particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other oddities 
which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a small 
break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or caught in a 
door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were resulting in 
this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and bowel are found 
in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that area (a fall, hit by 
a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in the opposite 
direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.

There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
just not feeling right.

I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.

I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens the 
body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may be the 
straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that it would 
be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as invasive 
as spaying.

Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
status and peeing issues.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Jennifer Olson
Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...

On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
> wrote:
Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to easily 
afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but 
keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses 
 Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take 
in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us 
to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance 
on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats 
lives.

Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to 
interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but here 
are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in vitro 
- FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline 
induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter - 2006 Nucleic 
Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in vitro - 
October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and 
non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013 Tropical 
Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and 
doxycycline: a novel 

[Felvtalk] Cats and neem oil

[dlgegg]

I have a lemongrass inside with scales and mealy bugs.  I would like to spray 
it and do a soil drench.  Problem my cats love to eat lemongrass and I do not 
want to kill them while saving the plant which I can replace.  I have not been 
able to get a satisfactory answer from the Green light company (which is now 
owned by Scotts) and my vet cannot give me an answer.  HELP!

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Re: [Felvtalk] Innoculations...

[dlgegg]

mY hARLEY OFF AND ON CATCHES MOLES, SCREWS AND MICE because we do have 
invasions of mice in cold weather so I guess I should get him vacinnated for 
Rabies.  The others just go out and sit on the deck, Harley is my mouser, 
anything that moves is prey including my toes under the cover.

 ROBERT CHAPEL  wrote: 
> I'd be very careful about not spaying a FeLV positive cat...  I'm 
curious about this assertion that all have died within a week??  If that 
were a general outcome I think more of us would have heard about it ( we 
have spayed and neutered 10 cats at the shelter where I volunteer in the 
last year and none have diedlikewise with innoculations)   I 
wanted my boy to have his rabies Vaccination because he periodically 
catches mice that manage to find their way into my second floor condo 
AND because it is illegal to not do so in NYS ( some vets will refuse to 
see cats that have not had rabies vaccination)...  I held off on the 
PanLeuk booster... Instead did a Titre ( 111.00 for the Titre  would 
have been a LOT cheaper to vaccinate)... but vet now says he's good for 
at least 3 years...
I really don't like the idea of not spaying or neutering FeLV cats...  
one unfortunate unintended pregnancy could add several positive unwanted 
kittens to the population and that would be just too sad  Life is so 
seldom happy for FeLV kitties. our cats are the exception rather 
than the rule...

On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 03:02 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:

> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>   felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Losing patience (dlg...@windstream.net)
>2. Re: Losing patience (Marlene Snowman)
>3. Re: Figaro... (ROBERT CHAPEL)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:40:42 -0600
> From: To: Margo , felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> Message-ID: <20170302134042.IOX9V.7043.root@pamxwww04-z01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, 
> especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying. 
> If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I 
> use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the odor.  First 
> though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted kittens so I 
> spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, everyone else gets vaccine 
> for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 years, they do 
> not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many as 10 cats in 
> the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I have been 
> lucky.  Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else 
> has become positive.
>
>  Margo  wrote:
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> 
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 13:53:58 -0500
> From: Marlene Snowman To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> Message-ID: <469a7abe-5296-4dec-a5f5-1cb90c197...@icloud.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Are you suggesting giving the vaccine to a cat (in my case 1.5) that 
> has tested positive but no outward signs of the virus ?  I too haven't 
> spayed her as my vet suggests that every cat she has spayed/neutered 
> that was positive died within a week. I made the decision based on 
> that to not spay so as not risk that. The vet has also recommended no 
> vaccines as they are live virus and because of the positive testing 
> recommended not providing any of those.
> Marlene
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:40 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>> The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, 
>> especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on 
>> spraying.  If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really 
>> works!  I use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the 
>> odor.  First though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted 
>> kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, everyone else 
>> gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 
>> years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many 
>> as 10 cats in the house and no 

Re: [Felvtalk] Innoculations...

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

I'd be very careful about not spaying a FeLV positive cat...  I'm 
curious about this assertion that all have died within a week??  If that 
were a general outcome I think more of us would have heard about it ( we 
have spayed and neutered 10 cats at the shelter where I volunteer in the 
last year and none have diedlikewise with innoculations)   I 
wanted my boy to have his rabies Vaccination because he periodically 
catches mice that manage to find their way into my second floor condo 
AND because it is illegal to not do so in NYS ( some vets will refuse to 
see cats that have not had rabies vaccination)...  I held off on the 
PanLeuk booster... Instead did a Titre ( 111.00 for the Titre  would 
have been a LOT cheaper to vaccinate)... but vet now says he's good for 
at least 3 years...
I really don't like the idea of not spaying or neutering FeLV cats...  
one unfortunate unintended pregnancy could add several positive unwanted 
kittens to the population and that would be just too sad  Life is so 
seldom happy for FeLV kitties. our cats are the exception rather 
than the rule...


On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 03:02 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:



Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	 
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Losing patience (dlg...@windstream.net)
   2. Re: Losing patience (Marlene Snowman)
   3. Re: Figaro... (ROBERT CHAPEL)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:40:42 -0600
From: To: Margo , felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID: <20170302134042.IOX9V.7043.root@pamxwww04-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, 
especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying. 
If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I 
use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the odor.  First 
though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted kittens so I 
spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, everyone else gets vaccine 
for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 years, they do 
not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many as 10 cats in 
the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I have been 
lucky.  Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else 
has become positive.


 Margo  wrote:

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--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 13:53:58 -0500
From: Marlene Snowman To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID: <469a7abe-5296-4dec-a5f5-1cb90c197...@icloud.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Are you suggesting giving the vaccine to a cat (in my case 1.5) that 
has tested positive but no outward signs of the virus ?  I too haven't 
spayed her as my vet suggests that every cat she has spayed/neutered 
that was positive died within a week. I made the decision based on 
that to not spay so as not risk that. The vet has also recommended no 
vaccines as they are live virus and because of the positive testing 
recommended not providing any of those.

Marlene
Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:40 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, 
especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on 
spraying.  If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really 
works!  I use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the 
odor.  First though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted 
kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, everyone else 
gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 
years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many 
as 10 cats in the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I 
have been lucky.  Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and 
no one else has become positive.


 Margo  wrote:

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Re: [Felvtalk] Figaro...

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Jenny...
Are you thinking of bringing him to a shelter??...  If I were you I 
would research FeLV rescues/Sanctuaries.  Depending upon in what part of 
the country you reside you_ might_ be able to work something out.  I 
realize how difficult/frustrating it can be caring for an animal that is 
both needful and uncooperative  If memory serves... this is the 
little boy that you have reservations about integrating with your other 
cats??    If this is the one , I believe, our general feeling was 
that you would be better off ( rather than going the frustrating route 
of isolating him from all the others) to innoculate the others ( if they 
are adult) and integrating him  But... if that makes you 
uncomfortable and the current arrangement is not working for you... 
looking for alternative arrangements might be the next step



On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 08:38 AM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org 
wrote:



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy (Jennifer Olson)
   2. Re: RNA effects of Doxy (ROBERT CHAPEL)
   3. Losing patience (Jennifer Olson)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 22:19:00 -0600
From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: ROBERT CHAPEL Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of 
Win/Pred/Doxy

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alright-  Figaro just pee'd on my bed right- next to me- after I 
cleaned
box (and then his paws because he made loose poop & got litter ETC on 
the
bed) caught him in the act. He hasn't been neutered yet. I threw my 
bedding
into washer, sprayed bed with "Nature's Miracle- No Spray" & resolved 
I am

NOT remaking bed...
I can hear him crying, like he does when I AM there trying to go to 
sleep.

Overnight is the biggest lump of time I can be with him so he isn't
COMPLETELY isolated, alone I hate this.
Do I just go to bed now upstairs, or TRY to lay in a dry spot with new
blankets?
='~{

On Mar 1, 2017 4:26 PM,  wrote:


AMEN TO THAT!  I especially get angry that they do not consider
alternative medicine a viable tratment.  Unless I get a broken arm, I 
first
try alternative meds.  I have not had a flu shot for over 8 years and 
have
not had a cold or flu.  I use ginger, turmeric, garlic, onion, 
cinnamon as
my anti flu meds.  I just wish we knew more about animals (cats) and 
herbs,

which is safe or not safe to use.  Then when something comes up on a
weekend/holiday and I cannot et my cat to the vet, I would be able to 
start

treatment  until I can get to a vet.

 ROBERT CHAPEL  wrote:

Amani...


If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses 
of

other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have 
whatever

non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection
necessarily)...  So little research money appears to be devoted to 
FeLV

that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade unless the
continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this 
day

and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
pets) alter this course.I STILL bristle when I think of the 
closed

minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into 
now
that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health 
Systems")..

hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.   On the plus
side with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast 
to
the lost art of " professionalism")  The CONSUMER is always right. 
Vets

will be forced, in the future, to work more closely with the "
customers" wishes as attachment to a given vet will become less 
common
as time goes on and people will " practice shop " for the answers 
they
want until such time as Vet services become so expensive that 
insurance

becomes a " must have " and ultimately go the way of medicine (
ie...being confined to a slate of approved practitioners...
againlimiting choice)...  But... there are some years to go 
before
that happens and I feel that there IS a window of opportunity 
happening
NOW and for the next few  years for people to have some real 
influence
on how Vets practice   I am betting, for example, that had I had 
the
money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood where people are 
more

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Marlene Snowman]

Are you suggesting giving the vaccine to a cat (in my case 1.5) that has tested 
positive but no outward signs of the virus ?  I too haven't spayed her as my 
vet suggests that every cat she has spayed/neutered that was positive died 
within a week. I made the decision based on that to not spay so as not risk 
that. The vet has also recommended no vaccines as they are live virus and 
because of the positive testing recommended not providing any of those. 

Marlene 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:40 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> 
> The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially 
> a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying.  If he does spry, 
> Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I use it for urine, vomit 
> and it really newutralizews the odor.  First though, I do not want to be 
> responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few 
> years, everyone else gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at 
> least 4 or 5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as 
> many as 10 cats in the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I 
> have been lucky.  Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one 
> else has become positive.
> 
>  Margo  wrote: 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially a 
male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying.  If he does spry, 
Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I use it for urine, vomit and 
it really newutralizews the odor.  First though, I do not want to be 
responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, 
everyone else gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 
5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many as 10 
cats in the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I have been lucky. 
 Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else has become 
positive.

 Margo  wrote: 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Margo]

Then probably best to do so. Figaro will read off of you, and only make the situation worse. It's tough to deal with this kind of issue, and if it frustrates you to this extent, it is probably best to let someone else try. Have you had Figaro retested? Turning an outside cat into an inside cat is a long-term project, and as an intact male, he's still marking (and yes, you) and that's not likely to change. But placing a + cat is difficult in most places. You could look up "Feline leukemia sanctuary", and maybe there's someone near you. Is there a reason he has not been neutered? Have you had your other cats vaccinated against FeLV? Is Figaro showing any symptoms? What has his age been guessed to be?Hope you find a good solution,Margo-Original Message-
From: Jennifer Olson 
Sent: Mar 2, 2017 8:38 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL"  wrote:Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats lives.    



Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter - 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013 Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med 41:61-67



The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis, metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from the bone marrow:

- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.


Amani

P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had a toe-hold there.


-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT CHAPEL

[Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Jennifer Olson]

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...

On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL"  wrote:

Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these
references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much
for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full
medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed
appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it
was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my
Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target
for these meds was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and
these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them
for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for
Veterinary Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet
services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet
owners.  I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low
Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can
easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses  Many people who might
formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or  two.
All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our
knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a
veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats
lives.


Hi Bob
>
> I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline
> to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection,
> but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:
>
> - Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in
> vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015
>
> - Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by
> doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter -
> 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34
>
> - Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in
> vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
> - Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and
> non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013
> Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A
> TETRACYCLINE)
>
> - A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and
> doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med
> 41:61-67
>
>
>
> The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of
> Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis,
> metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from
> the bone marrow:
>
> - Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix
> metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published
> Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.
>
>
> Amani
>
> P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show
> last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who
> contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye
> problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola
> viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of
> reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding
> ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the
> body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was
> ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with
> his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had
> a toe-hold there.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> ROBERT CHAPEL
> Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy
>
> Amani...
>
> If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses of
> other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
> infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever
> non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection necessarily)...?
> So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV that I don't know
> that we'll know in the next decade unless the continuing demands of
> consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of " Miracles")
> that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
> pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the closed
> minds 

Re: [Felvtalk] RNA effects of Doxy

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate 
these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge 
too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access 
to full medical databases ( for free)...


VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed 
appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... 
it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds 
that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course 
the target for these meds was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a 
retro Virus and these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV 
virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold 
my house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using 
them for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount 
for Veterinary Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet 
services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet 
owners.  I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low 
Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 
can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses  Many people who 
might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or  
two.  All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to 
share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total 
reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve 
our FeLV cats lives.    




Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of 
Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with 
viral infection, but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:


- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus 
in vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015


- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by 
doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III 
promoter - 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34


- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in 
vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline 
and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 
2013 Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A 
TETRACYCLINE)


- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and 
doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path 
Med 41:61-67




The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of 
Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis, 
metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) 
from the bone marrow:


- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of 
matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase 
- published Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 
3.



Amani

P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show 
last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who 
contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop 
eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of 
the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was 
an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found 
a breeding ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from 
the rest of the body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, 
and the treatment was ultimately successful. It brought to mind the 
problems Yogi had had with his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was 
similar - that the virus had had a toe-hold there.



-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
Of ROBERT CHAPEL

Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy

Amani...

If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses 
of other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial 
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever 
non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection 
necessarily)...? So little research money appears to be devoted to 
FeLV that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade unless the 
continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this 
day and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for their much 
loved
pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the closed 
minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that 
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into now 
that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health 
Systems").. hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.??