New Diagnosis

2007-08-21 Thread ofalegend
Hello Everyone,

My name is Michael Roberts.? I just received word a few hours ago about one of 
my babies being diagnosed, so bear with me if this takes me a while to get 
out.

First of all, a bit of background information.? I currently have three cats, 
all Siamese and all from rescues.? The oldest, and the one with the FeLV 
diagnosis, is approximately 6-7 years old, and the other two are?a little over 
two.? The first one came from a local rescue shelter here in Tennessee called 
Angel Wings, which has since been shut down. The other two came from VA Siamese 
Rescue, an organization that my partner and I are still somewhat active in.? We 
volunteer to transport on occasion and remain in the newsgroups/email lists.

I took all three for their checkups today, and the vet asked if we watned them 
tested for FeLV, to which we agreed.? The test on Grizzabella came back 
positive. The test on Penelope was negative, and they ran out of tests, so 
Poppy hasn't been tested yet.? I did request them to retest Grizzabella (even 
though they charged me again), and the blood was drawn and sent out for 
Grizzabella's retest and Poppy's test today, and we should have results by 
tomorrow.

Here's my issuethis is my first time dealing with FeLV, and I don't know 
what to do or what to expect.? All three of those cats are our children, and I 
can't bear the thought of seperating them or giving Grizzabella up because 
she's sick, but I don't know how likely it is the other two will contract the 
disease, or how to seperate them.? I'm not sure what to do about treatment, 
either.? I've heard there's no treatment, then I've heard there's meds, and 
diet changes.? I'm just not sure what my next step should be.? I noticed there 
are six stages to the disease, and four different types...I don't have any of 
that inforomation yet.? Can anyone give me a heads up and let me know where we 
should start with this?? Not sure what I need to do, guys.? I know lots of you 
have a lot of experience with this, and i'd be interested in any advice you can 
give.

Thanks in advance.

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.


Re: New Diagnosis

2007-08-21 Thread OfALegend
Thanks guys.  I stopped on my way home from work and picked up some  Lysine 
and Echinacea, I'm going to start putting it in their food.  I also  got some 
high protein purina naturals food to replace their cat chow indoor  formula, 
and I'll step up to proplan or iams or something if I need  to.  I also plan on 
sanitizing all the feeding bowls and drinkwell  fountain daily.  After 
speaking with the former fosters and the state  coordinator for VA SRC, I think 
this 
is the best plan for now.  I'll keep  you all updated once I get a real 
diagnosis from the tests they sent off  today.
 
Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Update

2007-08-22 Thread OfALegend
 
Ok, guys, here's the status.   I just called the vet's office,  they told me 
both Poppy and Grizzabella's tests came back positive today.   I guess what I 
need to do now is figure out what to do from here.  I did  ask about UT, and 
she just sort of side-stepped the question.  I also asked  what happened to Dr. 
Merryman, and the only thing she would tell me was She's  not here anymore 
and I don't know what she's doing. So, needless to say, I  think I'm done with 
this vet's office.
 
I'm pretty sure I can get a referral to UT, so I guess that's the next  step, 
both of them are headed there as soon as I can get the referrals.  I  tried 
the echinacea and lysine supplements, but none of them have felt well  enough 
to eat since their vaccines yesterday, so I'll try it again when they're  
feeling better. If they don't take it.  I'm a bit upset right now, so I'm  
gonna 
leave it at that guys, til I have a little time to calm down.  I'm  open to 
suggestions as to what I should do next.   

Michael




** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Update

2007-08-22 Thread OfALegend
Sorry, I should have clarified.  UT is the  Univ



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Update

2007-08-22 Thread OfALegend
Let me try this again
 
UT is the University of Tennessee Medical Center.  They have a  Veterinary 
program there, its a teaching school.  I think an internal  medicine specialist 
is the next step, if I can get my doc to refer  me.



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: To Michael Re: Update

2007-08-22 Thread OfALegend
Thanks for the info.  I'll definitely look into better foods.  Do  you all 
think its ok to mix in their morning and nightly Fancy Feast Elegant  Medleys?  
There are three of them, and they share a can each morning  and each night, so 
they average only 1/3 of a can at a time, but its something  they have come 
to expect.  I guess I'm wondering if there's something wrong  with giving that 
to them.  They've been on the Purina Naturals dry food,  but I'm going to 
switch over to something with no grains and high  proteins.  I'm going to look 
for 
the Innova Evo, but I don't recall ever  seeing it.  I'll be sure to look for 
something with no grains  tomorrow. 

As for the nutritional supplement recommendation, I've already gotten  Lysine 
and Echinacea, but haven't been able to get them to eat it yet.  I'm  hoping 
they will when they're feeling better.  They did eat tonight, so  that makes 
me feel better now that I've seen them eating.   As for the  supplements, are 
those the only two recommended, or is there something  else?  And do you guys 
mix that in the dry food, or in their wet  food?  Luckily, we rarely ever have 
guests, and rarely leave  for more than a couple of days at a time (and my 
sister is here with them when  we leave, with whom they are very familiar, she 
has been living here on and  off). 
 
They did not vaccinate the cat they knew had tested positive, but  vaccinated 
Poppy because they ran out of ELISA tests and had to send in an IFA  test 
with her along with Grizzabella's.  I'm not comfortable with this vet  office 
treating them, so that's why I'm going in the morning to get them to  refer 
them 
to University of Tennessee School of Veterinary Medicine.  I  looked up the 
hospital tonight, quite impressive...they have 10 exam rooms, 7000  dogs/cats a 
year, an intensive care unit, specialists in every field you can  imagine, it 
looks very promising: _http://www.vet.utk.edu/_ (http://www.vet.utk.edu/)   
The vet's  office bothered me because they didn't even recommend an IFA test to 
verify her  positive ELISA test.  They just said she had it, period.  That 
didn't  sit well with me.
 
I feel very personally responsible for them getting sick and I'm taking  this 
very hard.  But all I can do now is make sure they have the absolute  best 
care possible. 
 
Ok, to summarize, here's what I need input on from you guys:

1. Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys...1/3 of a can morning and night...is  this ok?
2. Dry food...brand recommendations
3. Supplements...any recommendations other than lysine and echinacea, and  do 
you put it in wet or dry food?
4. Treatment options?  Do you use the ImmunoRegulin Or Interferon  Alpha in 
healthy cats, or is that treatment options you use when they're  symptomatic?  
 
Thanks for all the support to everyone and all the emails I've  received.  It 
really helps me to feel like I have some sense of control  over the 
situation, and I'm not just completely helpless.
 
Michael
 



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: To Michael Re: Update

2007-08-23 Thread ofalegend


Quick question: I forgot how you came to test them in the first place.? Are 
they new adoptees or is one of them sick?

Hi Wendy,

To answer your question, they ended up being tested because the Vet asked Jeff 
if he wanted them tested.? He didn't know what to say, so he just said yes.? I 
guess its fortunate he did.? They're both asymptomatic.?They're actually quite 
healthy.? I've never?even noticed as much as a runny?nose from any of them.? 
The only thing I have seen is vomiting, but I'm hoping the new food will help 
with that...thats not a new issue...they've been doing that since I got them 
and long before Grizzabella came in and?infected Poppy.? They've been to?the 
vet several times, no one seems to have an answer other than they seem to be 
eating too fast.? But they're really not unhealthy...as?a matter of fact, Poppy 
is 14.5lbs, ack :(? The other two are?7.4 and?7.5, which is a healthy weight 
for their size. ?I'm going with the Innova EVO food today as soon as I can find 
that place on their website where its sold locally.? We'll see how that goes, 
I'll gradually switch it over as recommended.

I also stopped by my vet office this morning on my way to work, and gave them 
the referral form for University of Tennessee CVM.? They seemed very receptive 
this morning.? The doctor that diagnosed them will be back in the morning and 
they said they'd give him the form. I suppose it will help that two of the vets 
at the clinic graduated from UT.

I also asked about the prescription formula Missing Link supplement, and they 
made a note to check.? I mixed the lysine in this morning, and all three ate 
it!?That made me feel a bit better.? The one that stayed in one spot pretty 
much for 36 hours also got up and moved around a bit last night.? She even came 
in the living room and laid down on the couch with Jeff.? They're slowly 
feeling better from the vaccinations.? I'll keep updating as I get new 
information.? Thanks guys.

-Original Message-
From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: To Michael Re: Update






Hey Michael,

?

I feed mine Elegant Medleys as a treat, so yes, I think it's fine.? It's not 
the best food, but I don't think it's going to hurt them.? I?buy the wet and 
dry Innova Evo online at Pet Food Direct usually.? I got a 22% discount the 
last time I ordered, which was a good deal.? The food is expensive, so when you 
look, don't be too surprised at the price.? I pay about $35 before discounts on 
a 15 lb. bag which lasts me with 4-5 cats about a month.? It's worth it.? When 
I started feeding?Smookie,?our newest kitty from the shelter, the Evo, her coat 
just blossomed into this gorgeous blue black shiny blanket.? I was amazed, 
which is saying a lot for me.? I can also get the food in about 3-4 stores, 
usually pet boutiques,?in Dallas, but since I live in the suburbs, it's cheaper 
to buy it online and have it shipped rather than drive.? I was used to feeding 
science diet, so when I saw that the food was basically?junk,?I felt bad, but I 
didn't know any better.? And if we didn't have the money, we wouldn't be able 
to feed the better foods.? It's a shame they are so expensive.??We?are not 
wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but we can afford a little extra on 
the food.? And they say?more protein means less elimination and less food 
eaten, but I forget why.? Someone else here will know.

?

You can mix the lysine into their Medleys.? It's tasteless; they won't even 
know it's there.? Do you have the powder?? Other people use different 
supplements.? They will?know more about them than I will.? I'm really happy 
that your kitties are eating.? They'll probably be back to normal by tomorrow.? 
Quick question: I forgot how you came to test them in the first place.? Are 
they new adoptees or is one of them sick?

?

Please try not to feel responsible for them having FeLV.? You didn't give it to 
them.? The best thing you can do for them is to remain stress free yourself as 
much as possible, because they will pick up on it if you are upset.? Every day 
you have with them is a gift, and one day, we're all going to meet our maker, 
kitties too.? So it may be that the FeLV is not what they pass from, but 
something else, and you'll have wasted all that time and energy worrying for 
nothing.? You just never know.? There is a 22 year old FeLV+ Siamese cat at the 
Casa de Calmar FeLV Unit at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah.? Can you 
believe that?!!!? I saw her and petted her myself this past February.? Have you 
heard of them?? Best Friends uses ImmunoRegulin once a month given via shot 
intra-muscular, asymptomatic or not.? They are really up to date on their stuff 
too, IMO.? Some people here use IR, given different ways,?and others use the 
interferon.? They will have good info. on that.? I would repost with those two 
as a subject heading so you're sure to get answers from the people 

Update 08/23/07

2007-08-23 Thread OfALegend
Hey guys,
 
Just an update on the situation with Grizzabella and Poppy.  I stopped  by my 
vet's office this morning with the UT vet referral forms in hand.  I  was 
actually quite surprised, they seemed very receptive to the idea, so I left  
the 
forms with them.  They said the vet that diagnosed them wasn't working  today, 
but they would leave them there for him in the morning. (he's a graduate  of 
the UT CVM, as I checked his state licensure, so I'm hoping it won't be too  
hard to get a referral from him.)  I'll let you guys know if I get the  
referral tomorrow.
 
As for foodI went today and picked up the Innova EVO.  For anyone  else 
who might be looking for it, in addition to the place off Middlebrook that  
Melanie mentioned, they also have it at Smokey Mountain Grain and Feed in  
Maryville, and Earth Share, the organic/natural foods grocery store in Turkey  
Creek.  Anyway, I picked it up today (as well as a couple cans of Innova  EVO 
canned food, not sure if they will eat it, I'm going to try tonight) and I  
also 
stopped by Northshore Animal Hospital on my way home and bought a bag of  the 
professional strength veterinary formula Missing Link supplement.  They  also 
got the Lysine this morning, and ate it very well!  I'm going to start  trying 
to incorporate the Lysine and Missing Link into their wet food in the am  and 
pm by dividing the dose and feeding half of each both times.
 
I'm still trying to figure out what to do about separating the  
litterbox/food/water for Penelope.  She is, so far, negative.  What do  you 
guys think?  
Should I wait, or go with the separate  food/water/litterboxes in separate 
rooms 
with the infrared kitty doors that  require the collar to open?  I figure I 
can buy two different doorsone  for Poppy and Grizzabella, and another with 
a different frequency for  Penny...that way it will keep all their 
food/water/litter separate.  I  don't really have to worry about separating 
Penny 
because she's a loner  anyway..she doesn't associate with the other two really 
much 
at  all.Should I go ahead with the separate bowls, and start by  just 
adding a second set and letting all of them use both, and then after a  while 
(when they know the second litterbox/water/food exists) add the radio  
controlled 
doors?  I want to do whatever is easiest for them, I don't want  to stress 
them over it, but I want to make sure Penny stays negative as much as  humanly 
possible.  I figure it'll be an easier transition if Penelope knows  the 
food/water bowls are there before I lock her out of the others area.   What 
do you 
think? I'm open to recommendations/suggestions.  Right now I  just have their 
dry food in disposable bowls that I'm changing daily.  I'm  also bleaching the 
drinkwell daily.  I feed them once in their glass bowls  then bleach/wash 
them.  They are all still sharing a litterbox  though.  Thoughts?


Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Update 08/23/07

2007-08-23 Thread OfALegend
Wendy,
 
Here's the breakdown:
 
I've had Grizzabella since 2001, and she was approximately a year old at  
that point, so she's about 7.  She came from a rescue shelter that  went 
terribly 
bad, but I'm almost certain I had her tested and she was negative  at that 
time, because I remember she came with an awful URI when I got her.  :(  Poor 
thing.  But what happened was she spent about three years  with my mother.  I 
had moved back home to help care for a terminally ill  relative, and by the 
time 
she passed, Grizzabella had gotten so attached to  mother and mother to she 
that I couldn't separate them.  Bella came back to  live with me after mother 
passed away in December 06. I think she likely  contracted the FeLV while she 
was with mother, as she would often get outside,  and mother wasn't able to 
chase her down.  She went to the vet several  times in that period for rabies 
shots and the like, but they never recommended  FeLV vaccines, and I still 
don't 
know why.
 
As for Poppy and Penny, I'm certain they were negative when I got them, as  
they came from Virginia Siamese Rescue.  They were kittens, so at this  point 
they're almost 2 1/2 years old, and Bella has only been here about 8-9  months, 
so I assume Poppy contracted it at somewhere around a year and a half to  two 
years old.  Penny tested negative on the ELISA.  I'm going to take  her back 
in 3-6 months and have her retested and insist on an IFA test.  I  say I'm 
certain they didn't have it when I adopted them because I know how  thorough Va 
SRC is, especially with the fosters I got them from.  I've  gotten to know 
them, and I'm certain they tested.  I guess its possible the  test was a 
negative 
when I got them and they were in fact positive, but I kinda  doubt it.  I got 
poppy at approximately 12 weeks old, and Penny at  approximately 8 weeks old.
 
As for the bleaching...the food bowls are nonporous glazed porcelain, and  
they're bleached in the dishwasher, as dishwasher detergent has bleach in  it.  
The drinkwell I can understand, though, being plastic.  I usually  dilute 
quite a bit, but I'll certainly stop if you all think it could cause more  harm 
than do good.  Thanks again!

Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Update 08/24/07

2007-08-24 Thread OfALegend
Update for the day:

I spoke with my vet today at Creekside, and  surprisingly enough he was very 
receptive and wrote the referrals for UT.   They have an appointment on 
Tuesday, September 11 for, as Dr. Dolen wrote,  FeLV workup and medical 
supportive 
therapy.  It gives me some  hope.  We'll see.  Ideally, I'll be able to 
consult with UT at least  twice a year, and use the very close vet for emergent 
situations and  maintenance.  The girls continue to eat the fancy feast with 
the 
Lysine and  Missing Link supplements in it.  They actually didn't seem to mind 
it at  all.  They're working on the conversion to the Innova EVO dry food.   
Right now it's about 80% Purina naturals and 20% EVO.  They're eating it,  but 
a bit slower than they were the Purina Naturals alone, but this is normal  
from what I read?
 

I'm also looking into buying a thermometer, as  a temperature is one of the 
early warning signs of  infection. I've done my research, and found the WNL 
temperature for a  cat is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit, and the heart rate 
is  140-220. (This site has great information on it: 
_http://www.cathelp-online.com/emergency/vitals.php_ 
(http://www.cathelp-online.com/emergency/vitals.php) ). I  really am hoping I 
can give them many more years with very careful 
care and  attention.  Do you guys have any thoughts on thermometers?  I've 
found  
this one (_http://www.pet-temp.com/pet_temp.htm_ 
(http://www.pet-temp.com/pet_temp.htm) ) ,  any of you own one or have a better 
recommendation for an ear 
canal  thermometer?  I am really 95% positive they absolutely would not 
tolerate a  rectal thermometer.
 
Also, I just wanted to mention that I recently looked over the FeLV Fund  
store, and just loved the Feline Leukemia is NOT a death sentence and There  
is LIFE with Feline Leukemia messages.  It provides hope.  You all  know I've 
had a rough time with this, and that's a message I needed.  I'm  going to 
order the license plate frame!  Thanks for everything guys, and  I'll email 
again 
when I have an update.
 
Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Question about eye ulcers

2007-08-24 Thread OfALegend
Ok, guys, since I'm feeling particularly sad tonight about my babies, let  me 
ask this...
 
How long have you all known of a cat surviving after FeLV+ diagnosis?
 
I know the standard is, according to almost everyone, 2-3 years after  
diagnosis, but I'm sure some of you all have had experiences with cats living  
longer?

Just curious what everyone's experiences have been.
 
 
Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Question about eye ulcers

2007-08-24 Thread OfALegend
Ugh, I'm sorry about that.  I know that question has nothing to do  with eye 
ulcers...I meant to change the subject line and forgot.  :/



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Question about eye ulcers/Benton's House

2007-08-24 Thread OfALegend
Who/What is this Best Friends?  I must be missing  something?



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: fleas arhhhhh

2007-08-26 Thread OfALegend
What protocol do you guys usually follow for your positive cats (who are  
exclusively indoor, of course) and flea treatments?  I'm sure with the  FeLV, 
flea bites are even more dangerous.  Should I be treating them with  
Frontline/Advantage every month year round, monthly during the summer  months, 
every three 
months, never?
 
 
Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: My cat was tested positive yesterday, and I don't know what to do.

2007-08-28 Thread OfALegend
Megan,
 
 
I understand exactly where you’re coming from!  Two of my three babies were 
diagnosed  with FeLV last week.  After much  agonizing and listening to sound 
advice from the very educated people here, I’ve  decided to not separate them 
right now.  You can probably gather a LOT of  information if you’ll go to the 
_www.felinleukemia.org_ (http://www.felinleukemia.org/)   website and read all 
the posts from the last week or so, as my situation was  almost identical to 
yours. 
As for my personal opinion, I strongly recommend you try  UT CVM if you can 
possibly afford it.  You’ll need a referral from your usual vet to be seen 
there.  Ask your vet to refer you to Internal  Medicine.  I actually got my two 
 
appointments September 11, and I’ll let everyone know how it goes when I get  
there. It seems like you and I must be pretty close! I live about 40 minutes  
from UT, but I work in Alcoa, probably 15 minutes away from the UT CVM.  I 
really just think UT was the absolute best  care I could give my cats, and so I 
didn't hesitate.  From what I  understand, they will see your kitties for a 
consult and to discuss  treatment options, but most of the treatment and follow 
up 
will be through your  local vet.  Fortunately, my vet graduated from UT CVM, 
so he was very  willing and eager to give me the referral.  I think your doc 
would  probably do the same if you asked.   I think the important thing to 
remember  is, and this came directly from the FeLV website, “Feline Leukemia is 
NOT a  death sentence.”  That was very  important for me to hear that and know 
that.  As for specific information, I’m sure  everyone else, who knows a lot 
more than I do, will be more than willing to  offer advice.  As for support, 
hey,  I’m very close by, feel free to email me any time you need/want to talk.  
I 
understand how devastated you feel  right now, I was the same way on day one…
almost hysterical L   Do  keep everyone informed, ok? 
Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Megan, be careful...

2007-08-30 Thread OfALegend
Hey guys.   I can't possibly imagine what could cost $2000 other  than a very 
extensive hospitalization.  Their prices and fees for labs and  diagnostic 
tests run pretty average...$15 to $40 for most testsand a  
consultation/exam/visit is only $60.  My appointment is on the 11th.   I'll be 
sure to let you 
all know how it goes.
 
Megan, who gave you the 2k figure?  The vet, or the hospital  itself?  I'm 
sorry, but you and I have talked a bit outside the group, and  I must say, I'm 
just not digging your vet, Megan. I'm not sure what his motives  or intentions 
are.  I dunno if he's really clueless, or what. :(  
 
I still recommend another vet.  And I'd find out from the hosptial  itself if 
they're wanting to charge that much.  I know I've heard a lot of  people 
around here say their vets will try to discourage people from going to UT  for 
various reasons...the biggest of which I truly think is they lose  money.  

Do keep us updated on whats going on.  :(

Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Advantage/FrontLine

2007-09-03 Thread OfALegend
Hey guys,
 
Quick question...I've heard a couple of you on here mention you use the  
advantage or frontline for dogs on your cats to save money, can someone fill me 
 
in on how you do this?  I've noticed one of my positive kitties scratching  the 
last couple of days, so I assume she's picked up some fleas somewhere.   I 
was going to treat all three of them, plus 2 or 3 of my neighbor's outside  
cats 
(since they pretty much live at my house!) but I can't hardly afford to pay  
$13 a pop times six.  Thanks for the info. 

PS, I still have the  appointment at the UT veterinary school on the 11th for 
the girls.  In the  meantime, they're doing well with the Missing Link and 
Lysine, all three healthy  and still happy.  I also got the Pet Temp 
thermometer 
and have established  all their baseline temps so I can keep periodic checks. 
 I'll keep you guys  updated!

Michael



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: Advantage/FrontLine

2007-09-04 Thread ofalegend
Thanks for all the info guys!? One more question...if I buy the largest dose to 
treat? 4 cats, how long will the other four doses in the tube last after its 
been opened? Would it be wasted, or could I draw it into a syringe or something 
and keep it until their next dose is due?? Not sure whether to buy a smaller 
amount that will dose four times, or get the large one and save it.


?


Michael










-Original Message-

From: gary 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Tue, Sep 4 8:40 AM

Subject: Re: Advantage/FrontLine







Both Advantage and Frontline Plus for dogs are the same ingredients at the same 
strength as they are for cats.? You just buy the ones for the largest dogs and 
put it into a very small container and use a small eyedropper or plastic 
syringe (without needle and use the regular amount for a cat dose.? For 
Frontline Plus a cat dose is .5 mg or .5 cc.?so a vial for the largest dog does 
8 cats. ?Also, if you want to do this one a regular basis, buy it online from 
Austrailia and it is much cheaper.


?


Gary



- Original Message - 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 


Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 11:12 PM


Subject: Advantage/FrontLine







Hey guys,


?


Quick question...I've heard a couple of you on here mention you use the 
advantage or frontline for dogs on your cats to save money, can someone fill me 
in on how you do this?? I've noticed one of my positive kitties scratching the 
last couple of days, so I assume she's picked up some fleas somewhere.? I was 
going to treat all three of them, plus 2 or 3 of my neighbor's outside cats 
(since they pretty much live at my house!) but I can't hardly afford to pay $13 
a pop times six.? Thanks for the info. 

Michael



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Update

2007-09-11 Thread OfALegend
Hey guys.  Not sure what happened to my message...said something about  being 
held for moderator approval.  Anyway, I'm resending.
 
   
Hey guys.  I just got back from UT CVM with Poppy and Bella, and I  promised 
an update.  As for their health, they're doing fine really, no  symptoms 
still, eating well, taking the missing link and lysine supplements with  no 
problems.  The entire visit at UT took about 2.5 hours, but a lot of  that was 
just 
waiting.  First, a fourth year student called us back and  done a physical exam 
and initial consultation.  She then sent us back to  the waiting room and 
took the info back to the clinician and an intern.   About 20 minutes later she 
comes back and gets me and girls, and the intern is  waiting for us in the exam 
room.  They called my local vet, who apparently  had NOT done an IFA test, 
which kinda upsets me.  I've really tried to like  that vet for the simple fact 
that they have emergency service available and  they're a block from my house, 
but it looks like I'm going to have to start  looking for another local vet.  
Anyway, an IFA had not been done, so they  took the girls to the back and 
drew blood for the IFA.  They also asked if  I wanted a CBC, Chem Panel, 
Urinalysis and Hepatic Function panels done, which  would have costed another 
$300 :(  
The vet was very understanding, and said  she honestly could go either way, 
that it was my choice, but it might be  pointless to draw the blood now and 
then have to do it again if they get sick,  so we decided to wait on the 
bloodwork and do another SNAP test (which she will  call or email the results 
from 
those to me today) and the IFA will be back next  week.  Here's to hoping the 
*real* IFA is negative.
 
They were all honest at the hospital.  The fourth year student told me  this 
was her first case of Feline Leukemia, and the Intern said they didn't see  
very many of them at the hospital, but they're going to do research on current  
treatments and get back with both me and my local vet regarding a treatment  
plan.  She said FeLV is manageable, and sometimes cats live many years with  
it.  She seemed very optimistic, which made me feel a little better.   Not sure 
how I feel about their utter lack of experience with FeLV, but I can't  expect 
anyone to be perfect.  We're going to wait on the lab results to get  a real 
positive and go from there.  She said they may have us come back  if the 
tests are positive to do the bloodwork and try to type/stage the  disease.  She 
said for now the best thing to do is continue doing what I am  since they 
appear healthy and are symptomatic.  She recommended waiting on  the antivirals 
until they're symptomatic, but again said this was a matter of  personal 
preference.  I'm waiting on the recommendations they're supposed  to email me 
now, so 
we'll see how it goes from there.  Overall, I'm having  mixed feelings about 
the visit.  I'm certainly glad I took them, and I'd  probably do it again, I 
guess I was just hoping for a plan today.The total bill was $316 for the 
exam, research, and SNAP/IFA tests for both  cats.  I must say, the intern, Dr. 
Emily Purvis, was very compassionate. As  a matter of fact, she paged the front 
and came back up there before I left and  saved me $80.  She said the 
research she was going to do would be the same  for both cats, so she didn't 
feel 
comfortable charging me twice (which saved me  $80.  A research visit costs 
$115, versus $35 for a regular visit).   I appreciated her concern.  The cost 
broke down like this:

Research  visit $115
Office visit  $35
SNAP/IFAx2  $166
 
I'll be sure to let you all know what they say when they email their  
treatment plans/recommendations next week.
 
Michael




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Update

2007-09-11 Thread OfALegend
Wendy,
 
I'm not really sure WHAT they done at the local vet. :/
 
I was rather confused myself today when they told me Creekside said they  
hadn't done an IFA. :/  All the invoice/receipt says is Feline Leukemia/  FIV 
Combo TEST.  I just assumed that when we asked them to send her blood  off and 
test her again that they'd do an IFA, but apparently they done another  
STRAP/ELISA test.  I really don't understand how they sent that off, unless  
what 
they actually done was drew the blood and stored it at their office until  the 
STRAP test kits came in the next day, which I'm thinking is looking more and  
more like the most likely possibility.
 
As for Penny, she has not been retested yet.  I'll be getting them to  do an 
IFA on her next appointment (in six months).  And I guess I'll just  start 
looking for a new local vet now.  Ugh.  I'll update you guys  when I have 
more 
info!

Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Update

2007-09-12 Thread OfALegend
Got this message from the vet student this morning:
 
   
Michael,
 
I just wanted to let you know that both Poppie and Grizzabella came back  
positive for feline leukemia on the snap test.  I realize this is not a big  
surprise, but it is always good to double check.  We will still have to  wait 
for 
the results of the IFA, which will hopefully come back early next  week.
 
Dr. Purvis and I will be in touch!
 
Teri-Lee James
senior student


=



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Collecting a stool sample?

2007-09-12 Thread OfALegend
Hey guys,
 
I just got home a few minutes ago and Jeff had been holding Grizzabella  
earlier.  Apparently there was some blood on his shirt where he was  holding 
her.  
I'm not sure if its rectal or vaginal bleeding, but I'm sure  when I take her 
to the vet they're going to want samples, so do you guys have  any 
recommendations as to how I can collect a stool and/or urine sample?   I've 
never 
attempted it, and I wouldn't even know where to start.   Geez!  It seems like 
its 
already started. :/
 
Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Collecting a stool sample?

2007-09-12 Thread OfALegend
I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out the free of litter  part.  With 
three cats, its tough to know who's used the litter box.   I could keep it 
scooped and watch for her, I suppose, but will a sample I just  scoop out be 
ok? 
 I mean, after she's covered it up, do I just scoop it out  and take it? :/ 
 
I'm beginning to think the bleeding is from her urinary tract, but I can't  
be sure.  I say this because when I went in the laundry room and examined  the 
litterbox area, I found a tiny drop of clear liquid (about the size of half  a 
pea) with what looked like traces of blood in it. (I didn't have enough sense 
 to grab a syringe and collect it to take with me :(   )  I guess  I'm going 
to call my vet, or decide if I want to start using another vet, and  figure 
out what to do.
 
Thanks for the pointers guys!

Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: OT litter box issue

2007-09-19 Thread OfALegend
I also use a Drinkwell.  I've had it for a year now (with three cats)  and 
never had a problem out of it.  Personally, I'd highly recommend  it.
 
There's also a new Drinkwell Platinum on the market, not sure if there's  any 
real difference or not.



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Ok, I give up.

2007-09-19 Thread OfALegend
The girls got a new toy tonight, and I took some pictures.  I was  trying to 
send to you guys, but the messages keep getting caught up.  Do we  have a 
moderator for the group to approve them, or does anyone have another  
suggestion 
as to how I can send them? 

Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Ok, I give up.

2007-09-20 Thread OfALegend
As a matter of fact, its funny you should send that email.  I JUST  finished 
putting them all on Flickr:
 
_http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/_ 
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/) 
 
 
 
I have many many more, actually, and I'll probably work on adding some of  
them slowly.  Flickr only allows you 100mb a month :)  I'll let you  all know 
when I update them. 
 
 
Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Recommendations from UTCVM

2007-09-24 Thread ofalegend
Hey all,


?


As promised, below is the written recommendations from UTCVM on Poppy and 
Grizzabella.? Thoughts?



__


?


Subject: Current FeLV recommendations







Mr. Roberts, I apologize again for the delay.? Here are discharge instructions 
for the girls.? Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.? 
The format is a little skewed, but should still be readable.


Thank you!


emily


?




TITLE: DISCHARGE INSTRUCTIONS 


DATE OF NOTE: SEP 22, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:49 ENTRY DATE: SEP 22, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]:50:08 


AUTHOR: JAMES,TERI-LEE EXP COSIGNER: PURVIS,EMILY D 


URGENCY: STATUS: UNCOSIGNED 


(19-27-27) GRIZZABELLA 


?


DR. TODD DOLEN


CREEKSIDE ANIMAL HOSPITAL


1209 HIGHWAY 68


SWEETWATER, TN 37874


FS 2002 SEL/PNT 


---


DATE OF ADMISSION: SEP 11, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:45


DATE OF DISCHARGE: SEP 11, 2007


CLINICIAN(S): Emily Purvis DVM


STUDENT: Teri-Lee James, Senior Student


?


===


Diagnosis - Feline Leukemia Virus, positive ELISA adn IFA


Thank you for bringing Poppie and Grizzabella to UTCVM!


Poppie and Grizzabella were referred to UTCVM because they tested positive for 


FeLV at your referring veterinarian's office.


On physical exam both Poppie and Grizzabella appeared to be in good health and 


all of their physical parameters were within normal limits.


We took a blood sample from both cats and submitted them for an ELISA and an 
IFA 


test for FeLV. The ELISA test was initially positive at Dr. Dolen's office, but 


sometimes that can be false, so we retested. The ELISA tests for viral antigens 


circulating freely in the cats' bloodstream. The IFA test detects antigen 


present on infected blood cells and indicates bone marrow infection.


Both Poppie and Grizzabella tested positive on both tests, indicating that the 


virus has infected their bone marrow. Most cats that test positive on the IFA 


test remain persistently infected for life.


FeLV is transmitted from cat to cat via the oronasal route and by bite wounds. 


The virus replicates in lymphoid tissue and travels via infected cells to the 


spleen, thymus and to lymph nodes throughout the body as well as to the 
salivary 


glands. Eventually the bone marrow becomes infected, producing infected white 


blood cells and platelets. 


Many cats remain asymptomatic throughout life. Weight loss is the most common 


clinical sign, followed by fever, dehydration, rhinitis (nose infections), 


diarrhea, conjunctivitis (redness of the eyes) and oral infection. Infected 


cats may also develop bone marrow disorders, such as decreased red or white 


blood cell lines. FeLV infected cats also are at a higher risk developing 


lymphoma (cancer) and secondary infections due to immune suppression. 


Treatment for FeLV may include immune-modulating and antiviral medications. 


However, these treatments have not been shown to be particularly effective in 


many cases, particularly if cats are not showing clinical signs associated with 


the disease. 


CARE REQUIRED:


At this time we recommend that Poppie and Grizzabella have a complete blood 


count, blood chemistry with electrolytes, and urinalysis performed as a 
baseline 


evaluation. This can be done at your referring veterinarian's office or at 


UTCVM. Depending on the results of these tests additional diagnostic work may 


be indicated, including urine culture, thoracic and abdominal radiographs 
and/or 


abdominal ultrasound.


Poppie and Grizzabella should continue to have annual physicals and semi-annual 


labwork performed. Often times, changes on the labwork precede actual illness, 


so frequent monitoring can sometimes catch a problem early. If they have any 


abnormalities in their bloodwork or other diagnostic tests now or at some time 


in the future it may be appropriate to start one of the immune modulating 


medications that is available.


Thank you again for entrusting us with the care of your beloved pets. If you 


have any further questions of concerns please do not hesitate to call.





Emily?Purvis DVM

University?of?Tennessee

Veterinary?Teaching?Hospital

Small?Animal?Intern



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...

2007-09-24 Thread ofalegend
Not that my opinion matters, but I'd personally have a difficult time accepting 
someone's (a veterinarian that declaws) word on something who stands to gain 
(financially) from declawing cats. ? 




If you want a case study, take a look: 
http://www.pawproject.com/html/cases.asp?SortOrder=5












?


The above is from the same website.? Its a scientific article from the JAVMA.? 
I'm sure if you look up the articles in the actual publicans you'll find the 
citations you wanted to see. 


?


I think the source seems pretty reliable.? At least it does from my 
perspective.? Then again, maybe we see what we want to see a lot of the time.


?


It just breaks my heart to see or hear of cats being declawed.? I'll have to 
agree with those who think its a horrible practice that should be illegal.? Dog 
and cockfighting is illegal, all the same.? Does the pain a dog feels from 
dogbites hurt any less than the pain a cat feels from having its toes amputated?



-Original Message-

From: Kelley Saveika 

To: Sent: Mon, Sep 24 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...





I'm not really sure I buy the theory that declawed cats are more  likely to 
have behavioral problems.  I've seen a lot of cats, both  clawed and declawed, 
and behavioral problems seem to be about the same  in both groups.  We 
currently have a 12.5 year old declawed cat who is  probably the sweetest cat 
ever.  Similarly we have fully clawed cats  who have had terrible behavioral 
problems.  It just seems to be pretty  random to me.Nationally, about 25% 
of cats are declawed.  I'd be interested to see  the studies that purport that 
they are turned in to shelters in  disproportionate numbers.  If this is the 
case, it doesn't seem to be  the case locally.   Also if they are turned in to 
shelters in  disproportionate numbers, I'd like to know if the clawed cats are 
just  turned loose somewhere, as opposed to being turned in to a shelter.I 
did speak to my vet about it and he says there is no hard evidence  of any 
correlation between behavior and status of claws.   Lots of  people I really 
like have declawed cats, including my vet's  receptionist.   I continue to 
believe that cats are better off  declawed than dead, and if you have to make 
the correlation YES I  would rather have the tips of my fingers chopped off 
than be killed.--   Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20Please help George!
http://rescuties.chipin.com/georgeI GoodSearch for Rescuties.Raise 
money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the  Internet with 
GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!

2007-09-24 Thread OfALegend
The phrase comes to mind, The road to hell is paved with good intentions.  
:(
 
I have no doubt whoever is running this shelter has the best of  intentions.  
One of my girls, the one I think was the first positive, came  from just such 
a shelter (Angel Wings in Kingston, TN).  I know this lady  had only the best 
of intentions in her heart, and I know she loved the kitties  she tried to 
provide care for.  But I also know she didn't know how to say  No.  And a lot 
of innocent kitties suffered as a result.  It was a  heartbreaking situation 
altogether :(
 
Look, I have to know every day when to say No.  My heart aches for  some 
poor kitties I see at local shelters and adoption agencies, but I know I am  
not 
capable of caring for more than the three I have, and I know that to bring  
healthy, negative cats into a situation where they're at high risk of  
contracting FeLV is irresponsible.  I've replaced my sofa twice now due to  
kitty 
claws (FINALLY got them all trained.  It IS possible.) but I'd never  dream of 
declawing, and I think most people are horrified here at the thought of  a 
shelter using declawing as a standard policy.  Its unimaginable.   Even the 
lady I 
mentioned above gave me a very long lecture about declawing and  made me sign 
contracts that I wouldn't do it.  Siamese Rescue done the same  thing when I 
adopted my other two.  I think everyone here is horrified  that, as you pointed 
out, she can't say no.  We all must recognize our  limits.  I am not saying 
you, or the woman who runs this shelter, are bad  people, but even the best of 
intentions can be devastating (as I know  personally.)   Hoarders love the 
cats they have, they just don't  know when to say no.  Same goes for this 
situation, I think.  Our  hearts just ache that as horrible as FIV and FeLV is, 
we 
have to live with the  knowledge that this shelter is mixing them, and 
mutilating their little paws in  the process.  Its just painful. Its not 
personal 
attacks on you, or to say  that you don't have the best of intentions in your 
heart.
 
Reminds me of a story I heard on NPR on my way home, talking about zero  
gravity effects on bacteria.  They were talking about infecting mice with  
salmonella to see how long it would take them to die.  It was just painful  to 
listen 
to. :(


Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: list matters

2007-09-26 Thread ofalegend
And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes 
Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, 
“We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and 
actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.  I 
don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this 
list.  We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions 
whether you like them or agree with them or not.   I'm relatively new to the 
group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start 
trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them.  Look, I 
think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the 
thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives.  So I don't 
think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan.  Opinionated they may be, but 
they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend 
toe amputation.





-Original Message-

From: catatonya 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM

Subject: list matters







I think it's pretty out in the open now.  Susan and Glenda tend to judge others 
on the list.  This is OUR list.  We can ignore and correct misinformation when 
it comes from anyone.  This has always been THE most supportive and informative 
list I have ever been on.  Let's not lose the list due to a few people.


tonya



Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything 
you do is perfect!!??



Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list.


 


However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL  vet in the area 
finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her.


 


When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake.


 


period.


 


You do not begin to mix them.


 


That is basic shelter 101.


 


And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all.


 


However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and 
build another room, hence, separating her diseases.


 


 


 


Susan J. DuBose  ^..^www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com

www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org

www.shadowcats.net

  As Cleopatra lay in state,

   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,

   Purring welcomes of soft applause,

   Ever guarding with sharpened claws.

 Trajan Tennent


 


 


 


 



- Original Message - 


From: Susan Dubose 


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 


Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM


Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.!









This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to 
separate..!  Read below.


 


What kind of hellhole is this?


 


It's called crash landing


 


PLease do not forward..


 


 


 



 


 






Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Re: list matters

2007-09-26 Thread ofalegend
Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any 
less important to say.  You all judge some on this list for doing the exact 
same thing you are.  If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging 
bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have 
lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a 
terrible loss.  I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject 
even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is 
not the easy thing to say.  She had every right to say what she did as everyone 
else did to sling childish insults back. One line snips are the trademark of 
a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject.  Yes, 
everyone is here to provide information and support.  Yes, everyone has 
differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak 
their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. 
We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it.  If 
you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try 
to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in 
this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this 
argument, not just one.  Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group 
and not an individual.  I believe we've all done that at one time or another.  
And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two 
people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list.  If any 
of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did 
start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but 
I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of 
the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable 
viruses is not a good situation, regardless  of how well the intentions are.  
Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how 
good intentions go.  


 


Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing.  I just 
read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw.  Look, as I have 
stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda 
or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put 
in tough places with tough decisions to make.  If you're forced to declaw, or 
if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they 
were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision.  
Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a 
SHELTER, a non-profit organization dedicated to rescuing and helping otherwise 
helpless animals, making these choices across the board.  There's a big 
difference there and in an individual owner having to make tough decisions.  It 
sounds like (and I'm just stating fact here, not passing judgement on the open 
forum) that the shelter in question declaws across the board (with the exeption 
of FeLV/FIV+) every time a cat comes in the shelter.   Same for mixing.  They 
mix every positive cat that comes through, regardless of which diagnosis they 
have.  That was the concern.  Not individual choices that have to be made.  
Diane R. was in a tough spot, and had to make a tough decision.  I don't know 
that I would have made a different one if I were in her place.


-Original Message-

From: Kat 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Wed, Sep 26 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: list matters





  Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to  better 
get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot  by throwing 
flames!  And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe  that's exactly 
what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us  about tolerance and how 
to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my 
experiences, but not under  the current judgemental/jump all 
over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies  that have been going on.Kat (Mew 
Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 
2007 09:51:15 -0400   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Reply-To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   Subject: Re: 
list matters  And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, 
that our   includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin 
Luther   King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not 
  merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for   the 
appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here   has the 
right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all   have opinions, 
and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether   you like them or 
agree with them or 

Re: OT: Kitten Question

2007-09-26 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 9/26/2007 6:26:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

you are  prescribing medicine without a license.


Wow.  It just doesn't end, does it?  For the record,  twelvehousecats, Susan 
has left the list, so that's one less jab she'll have to  deal with,  due in 
large part I'm sure to statements like that.  This  will likely be my last post 
to this group.  I find the attitudes and  behavior of the senior members of 
this list to be discouraging, at  best.   Toe amputation is cruelty to 
animals, period, and virtually  every major animal-rights group (including 
Siamese 
Rescue, ASPCA and PETA)  oppose it.  I will, for those of you that requested 
scientific  information, include one last post before I bow out of this 
group. 
 See it  at the bottom of the email, if you're really concerned/interested.  
You can  sugar coat it, and ignore the facts if it makes you feel better about 
yourself,  but the bottom line is its cruel, period.
 
For anyone who's interested, I have started another group on Yahoo.   The URL 
is here:

_http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia_ 
(http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia) 
 
Let me preface that by saying I am not advocating or asking anyone to leave  
this list. I am not saying the new group is a replacement for this group,  or 
that its any better than this group.  I am simply providing an  alternative 
list if anyone is interested in joining.  I'm sure some of you  might be 
interested in being on both lists.  For me, this was just too  much.  It was 
uncalled 
for.  Susan was one of the first people to  respond to my email when I 
originally joined this group scared out of my mind  and not knowing what to do, 
so 
yeah, I guess I took the attacks on her a bit  personally, and perhaps I 
shouldn't have, but whats done is done, and I don't  think it can be undone at 
this 
point. The ground rules for the new group is  relatively simple, and that is 
no one's opinion will be stifled or silenced, and  the group will be moderated. 
 Also, no one will be judged on the other list  for anything that was said or 
done here, so long as its not brought up  there.  As disgusted and 
disappointed as I am in everything that has  transpired here, I do wish all the 
cats 
(and people) on this list the  best.
 
Regards,
 
Michael Roberts



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Article, with Citations.

2007-09-26 Thread OfALegend
I forgot to include the article in my previous email.  The link is  here, the 
full text follows:

_PETA Media  Center  Factsheets_ 
(http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=42)  
 
 
 
Declawing Cats: Manicure or Mutilation?
 

 
 
 
Cats’ claws and the bones and cartilage that hold them in place  allow cats 
to balance properly, climb, and defend themselves, among other  functions. 
Declawing, which removes these claws, bones, and cartilage, is a  painful and 
permanently crippling procedure that should never be performed.  There are 
effective and humane alternatives to declawing that can prevent cats  from 
inflicting 
damage with their claws.
 
Why Do Cats Claw Objects?
Cats claw to have  fun and exercise, to maintain the condition of their 
nails, and to mark their  territory—visually and with scent. They stretch by 
digging their claws in and  pulling against their own claw-hold. Cats’ natural 
instinct to scratch serves  both their physical and psychological needs. Before 
domestication, cats  satisfied these needs by clawing tree trunks. Today, 
domesticated cats can be  guided to satisfy their desire to claw without 
damaging 
valuable property.
 
Understanding Declawing
Declawing involves  10 separate, painful amputations. It is a serious 
surgery, not just a manicure.  Declawing a cat involves general anesthesia and 
amputation of the last joint of  each toe, including the bones, not just the 
nail.(1) The following are possible  complications of this surgery:
• Adverse reaction to  anesthetic
• Gangrene, which can lead to limb  amputation
• Hemorrhaging
• Permanent nerve  damage
• Persistent pain
• Reluctance to walk
• Scar  tissue formation
• Sequestrum (bone chips), requiring additional  surgery(2)
• Skin disorders
 
After surgery, the nails may grow back inside the paw, causing  pain but 
remaining invisible to observers. Declawing results in a gradual  weakening of 
leg, shoulder, and back muscles, and because of impaired balance  caused by the 
procedure, declawed cats have to relearn to walk, much as a person  would after 
losing his or her toes. 

Lasting  Difficulties
Without claws, even house-trained cats may urinate and  defecate outside the 
litterbox in an attempt to mark their territory. Declawed  cats may be morose, 
reclusive, and withdrawn or irritable, aggressive, and  unpredictable. Many 
people think that declawed cats are safer around babies, but  in fact, the lack 
of claws, a cat’s first line of defense, makes many cats feel  so insecure 
that they tend to bite more often as a means of self-protection.(3)  A study 
published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical  Association 
(JAVMA) 
reported that of those observed, 33 percent of  declawed cats developed at 
least one behavioral problem and 80 percent had more  than one medical 
complication.(4) Declawed cats are also more likely to be  surrendered to 
shelters.(5)
 
Banned by Countries and Cities and Condemned by  Vets
Nearly two dozen countries—including England, Australia, and  Japan—ban or 
severely restrict declawing surgeries.(6) Catalonia, Spain,  prohibits 
declawing under its Law of Animal Protection.(7) A declawing ban was  passed in 
West 
Hollywood, California, where one City Council official explained,  “As 
guardians of animals, we have a relationship of respect, that the animal not  
be 
amputated or subjected to techniques that create harm.”(8) Following a  lawsuit 
against the city filed by the California Veterinary Medical  Association—which 
argued that West Hollywood had infringed on veterinarians’  professional rights—
a court struck down the ordinance. Nonetheless, on the heels  of that 
precedent-setting legislation, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors  adopted 
a 
resolution “condemning” declawing and urging veterinarians to drop the  
procedure.(9)
 
Many vets refuse to perform the surgery. Dr. Jennifer Conrad  wrote in JAVMA 
that “[r]outine declawing (unlike sterilization) is never  performed for the 
sake of the animal” and that as a veterinarian, she has “an  obligation to do 
what is best for the animals and not what is most convenient  for their owners.
”(10) Dr. Melinda Merck does not perform declawing surgeries at  her Georgia 
clinic, saying the process “is an amputation … and it’s awful.”(11)  The Cat 
Practice in New York City tells its clients, “If you love your cat …  don’t 
declaw!”(12)
 
Compassionate Alternatives
With a little  effort and patience, you can protect your furnishings and 
preserve your cat’s  claws at the same time. The following hints will help:
• Trim your cat’s  nails regularly. When the cat is relaxed and unafraid, 
gently press on the toes  until the claws extend. Use a pair of nail clippers 
and cut only the tip of the  nail, taking care not to damage the vein or 
“quick.”
 The nail hook is what tears  upholstery, so removing it virtually eliminates 
damage.
• Buy or build  two or more 

Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin

2007-09-30 Thread OfALegend
I just wanted to clarify, though its really not important, that Tennessee  
does have a veterinary school at a land grant university.  The University  of 
Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, which is a Land-Grand  University.
 
Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin

2007-09-30 Thread OfALegend
V



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin

2007-09-30 Thread OfALegend
Vanderbilt is a private school.  The system in TN is sort of unique, I  
believe.  We have the University of Tennessee system, which governs the UT  
schools: Knoxville, Chattanooga, Martin.
 
We also have the Tennessee Board of Regents system that governs Tennessee  
State University (our other land grant school-Memphis I think), Austin Peay  
State University (middle TN-Clarksville), Middle Tennessee State University  
(Murfreesboro), East Tennessee State University (NE TN, Johnson City), and  
Tennessee Technological University (Middle TN-  Crossville).



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Question about outdoor cat

2007-10-04 Thread ofalegend
I'd have to agree with the take her camp on this one.  I have this adorable 
girl that wandered to my house after I moved in.  I call her Whitey. :)  She's 
a gorgeous domestic longhair, with one blue eye and one brown. She's adorable, 
and sort of just moved in when I did and hasn't left.  All the neighborhood 
cats wander through my yard from time to time, and generally eat there once or 
twice a week, but Whitey has adopted us.  She was horribly skinny and dirty 
when she came to the house...her long hair was matted all over her little 
body.  I've been slowly but surely brushing and loving her, and feeding her 
decent food. Her coat is just about slicked up.  Almost all the mats are out of 
her fur, except her tail, and that has been tough!  But anyway, I've gotten 
quite attached to her.  I keep her treated with frontline, and fed.  She greets 
me every morning when I leave for work and every night when I get home, so I 
can definately relate to your situation, Caroline.  I think this winter I am 
going to buy her one of those electric heating pads for outdoor pets, and put 
it in a nice secure tent/box for her to keep warm.  I know for sure if I ever 
move, Whitey is going with me.  





-Original Message-
From: Christiane Biagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 3:31 pm
Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat




TAKE HER!  I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought him inside.  I 
did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and the creeps 
whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no shelter.  It took 
a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up on some boxes.  
Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there  covered all but two sides 
with a sheet.  Then I started leaving the door to the kennel open and putting 
his food on the floor just below.  Then I brought him to the bathroom around 
the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the litter box to.  He 
started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the room or at night 
when he thought I was asleep.  But sure enough, one day he went out while I was 
in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he’d been eying!  Sure enough, 
that did it.  Once he found the creature comforts there was no turning back!  
He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out—sort of looks at the other guys 
like they’re nuts for wanting to go out!  He is the absolutely most 
affectionate cat I’ve ever had.  BUT, the one thing I still can’t do is 
actually pick him up.  He’ll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I try to 
sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up.  Vet visits  
crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum

 

Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers!  I say take her; keep 
her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and watch her become a big 
mush!

 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat



 

This is my final question I promise.  But it's been looming over my head for a 
long time now and it's really distressing me.  I know I have told you all that 
my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically belong to a lady 
a few houses up from me.  But all the neighbors kind of look after them and 
some feed/keep water out.  The lady who brought them to the street rescued 
them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of them- the sister had 
not spayed/neutered.  She got connected with one of the local agencies and had 
them all fixed for a discount (she is low income).  She already has five indoor 
cats so these cats became outdoor cats.  Almost all of them have clipped ears 
(except one) that show they have been fixed.  Some of them started out as 
indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like colony cats better 
so they pretty much stay out year round.  She has a front porch where she has 
boxes set up for them in the winter, etc.  They are all male, except for one.   
 
 
I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street over a year ago 
because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.?  I finally got 
the whole story.  There is one, a little girl who I call, Lil Girl who pretty 
much has re-transplanted herself to my property.  I treated her for tapeworms 
and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer.  I was worried about her 
being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding her quality food 
to beef her up, even after determining her sort-of home situation.  But now she 
is a permanent resident pretty much at my front door.  She is there every 
morning waiting for me and in the evening. It so sad because I do not own my 
house and my landlord needs his house back and I am moving the weekend after 
next.  I don't know what 

Re: Question about outdoor cat

2007-10-04 Thread ofalegend
By the way, I forgot to mention she's solid white...hence the name Whitey, 
which I jokingly called her because I never expected her to move in. lol


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: Question about outdoor cat


I'd have to agree with the take her camp on this one.  I have this adorable 
girl that wandered to my house after I moved in.  I call her Whitey. :)  She's 
a gorgeous domestic longhair, with one blue eye and one brown. She's adorable, 
and sort of just moved in when I did and hasn't left.  All the neighborhood 
cats wander through my yard from time to time, and generally eat there once or 
twice a week, but Whitey has adopted us.  She was horribly skinny and dirty 
when she came to the house...her long hair was matted all over her little 
body.  I've been slowly but surely brushing and loving her, and feeding her 
decent food. Her coat is just about slicked up.  Almost all the mats are out of 
her fur, except her tail, and that has been tough!  But anyway, I've gotten 
quite attached to her.  I keep her treated with frontline, and fed.  She greets 
me every morning when I leave for work and every night when I get home, so I 
can definately relate to your situation, Caroline.  I think this winter I am 
going to buy her one of those electric heating pads for outdoor pets, and put 
it in a nice secure tent/box for her to keep warm.  I know for sure if I ever 
move, Whitey is going with me.  





-Original Message-
From: Christiane Biagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 3:31 pm
Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat




TAKE HER!  I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought him inside.  I 
did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and the creeps 
whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no shelter.  It took 
a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up on some boxes.  
Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there  covered all but two sides 
with a sheet.  Then I started leaving the door to the kennel open and putting 
his food on the floor just below.  Then I brought him to the bathroom around 
the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the litter box to.  He 
started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the room or at night 
when he thought I was asleep.  But sure enough, one day he went out while I was 
in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he’d been eying!  Sure enough, 
that did it.  Once he found the creature comforts there was no turning back!  
He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out—sort of looks at the other guys 
like they’re nuts for wanting to go out!  He is the absolutely most 
affectionate cat I’ve ever had.  BUT, the one thing I still can’t do is 
actually pick him up.  He’ll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I try to 
sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up.  Vet visits  
crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum

 

Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers!  I say take her; keep 
her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and watch her become a big 
mush!

 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat



 

This is my final question I promise.  But it's been looming over my head for a 
long time now and it's really distressing me.  I know I have told you all that 
my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically belong to a lady 
a few houses up from me.  But all the neighbors kind of look after them and 
some feed/keep water out.  The lady who brought them to the street rescued 
them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of them- the sister had 
not spayed/neutered.  She got connected with one of the local agencies and had 
them all fixed for a discount (she is low income).  She already has five indoor 
cats so these cats became outdoor cats.  Almost all of them have clipped ears 
(except one) that show they have been fixed.  Some of them started out as 
indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like colony cats better 
so they pretty much stay out year round.  She has a front porch where she has 
boxes set up for them in the winter, etc.  They are all male, except for one.   
 
 
I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street over a year ago 
because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.?  I finally got 
the whole story.  There is one, a little girl who I call, Lil Girl who pretty 
much has re-transplanted herself to my property.  I treated her for tapeworms 
and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer.  I was worried about her 
being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding her quality food 
to beef her up, even after 

Whitey

2007-10-09 Thread ofalegend



 
View full size

??? 


 
View full size



For those of you without the history, Whitey came to me about six months ago 
relatively permanently.? She showed up and just sort of stayed.? When she came, 
she was boney (You could feel its ribs) and her long white fur was literally in 
huge mats all over her body. After months of feeding and brushing, I got her 
fur cleaned up and she put on a few pounds.? Last night I went? to feed her and 
found her so disoriented she couldn't even stand up, so Jeff took her to the 
vet this morning, and this is where the story picks up...

Ok, guys.? Jeff just got back from the vet with Whitey.? Here's what we learned.
(Pictures Attached.)

?

She is a He? LOL

?

He is about 10-12 years old.

?

He has not been neutered. :(

?

He has a severe inner-ear infection.

?

He has a grade 3 heart murmur

?

He has advanced/severe gingivitis.? Needs several teeth pulled.

?

FeLV/FIV NEGATIVE. (Thank God for something!)

?

He also has hyperthyroidism.? They found a benign tumor on his thyroid.

?

We're starting with oral antibiotics to get the ear infection cleaned up.? They 
drew blood for a thyroid and kidney check, as well as a fecal sample.??? Doc 
wants to get the ear infection cleared up before we start with thyroid medicine 
and such to make sure its not the infection causing all those other 
problems.??? He also wanted to wait on vaccines until we get everything else 
cleared up.? They cleaned his ears and clipped his nails today.? He's going 
back for vaccines/teeth pulling when we get the infection cleared up.

Now here's the dilemma.? First of all, I'm starting to feel bad about taking 
someone else's cat.? He just wandered to the house and sorta stayed, but he 
does go home from time to time for a few hours, but is always at teh house at 
night and in the morning for food.? I *think* I know who he belongs to, but I'm 
not certain.? The vet says he must stay indoors (at least for now) due to the 
severe infection and his imbalance, otherwise they said he couldn't run from 
cats/dogs or cars, he's very much at risk right now, so he's going in my Sun 
Room, which I suppose will become the kitty suite.? What do you guys? think?? 
I don't think I should feel bad for taking him, for the simple fact that if 
someone is so irresponsible a pet owner that they'd let him get in that shape, 
do they really care or deserve to own an animal?? I really do think its in HIS 
best interest that he stays with me, but again, he doesn't technically belong 
to me, so its a dilemma.? What do you guys think?? 

Another issue I'm having is his FeLV negative status.?? With two positives in 
the house, what do I do?? For now he's going to be isolated in the sunroom 
where he's safe, but if I keep him long term, should I let him back outdoors? I 
just don't know what to do.? I really don't feel good about mixing him with the 
positives and exposing him to FeLV.? My other negative had already been exposed 
before I knew.? But this is a totally different situation.? I could keep him 
isolated til he's better, then let him back out, that's one option. Another 
option is mixing :(? I really can't see leaving him in the sunroom the rest of 
his life, that just wouldn't be fair.? I'd appreciate input/opinions, guys.


Michael



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Whitey's Update

2007-10-10 Thread ofalegend
Ok, guys, here's an updated on Whitey (Ugh, I hate thatname, but Jeff won't 
let me change it now), 24 hours into the intervention ;)

I've done a lot of thinking, and soul searching.? And I've decided I'm not 
gonna put him back outside, or make any effort to contact his owners.? I've 
decided they don't deserve animals, and I even seriously considered reporting 
them to the humane society, but figured I'd best just get him better and leave 
it alone as long as they don't make a fuss over it.? He still has a long road 
to recovery, but once we get him better, I'm either gonna keep him in the 
sunroom (and figure out a way to make an outside area for him, or hopefully 
find him a good home.? Jeff is trying to convince his mother to take him.? Its 
a very quiet house with no other animals, and I know he'd be taken good care of 
there, and Jeff would see him often.? We don't know if she'll say yes, but 
right now we're just focused on getting him healed.? I even offered to provide 
his food and litter to sweeten the deal :)

Anyway, I spoke with the vet and Jeff yesterday when I got home and got a bit 
more details.? Apparently not only does he have hyperthyroidism, a benign tumor 
on his thyroid, severe gingivitis, teeth needing pulled, severe ear infection, 
and a grade 3 heart murmur, but he also has mouth ulcers. :(? The vet said he's 
surprised the fella can even eat.? But let me tell you, that boy eats :)? He's 
been eating Sheba and drinking catmilk as fast as I can give it to him, several 
times a day.? He's just acting completely at home in the sunroom!? He's not 
once yeowled or tried to get out.? He's found his spot out there, and he's 
been quite content!? I've been paying closer attention to the fella, and I do 
believe he's hard of hearing. I don't think he's completely deaf, but I do 
believe he has hearing problems.? For starters, Jeff was vacuuming the 
indoor/outdoor carpet out there, and he just laid there and slept.? You can 
open the door and call him in a low voice and he doesn't respond, but if you 
yell, he looks up.? He's also using the litterbox.? Hallelujah!? lol? I was 
afraid he'd never figure it out after being outside so long.? Jeff set up a 
webcam out there so we can keep an eye on him while we're in the house :)? 
(I'll send you guys a link if Jeff ever figures out how to connect it to the 
internet and not just our personal wireless network.) I think cleaning out his 
ears as helped some with the imbalancing.? He's still wobbly, but seems much 
better than he was!? I swear, he just amazes me.? I can't imagine what a rough 
life this little guy must have had up to this point...and for him to be so 
calm, and loving, after living through such hell, it just says he's a very 
special boy.


A couple of questions now

1. The vet put him on Baytril for the infection/mouth ulcers.? I know you guys 
are familiar with itwhat are the side effects, what do I need to look for?? 
Is that the broad spectrum antibiotic that kills the good intestinal bacteria 
as well?? do I need to get some yogurt and/or probiotics? :)?

2. How long should he go before I get concerned about the litterbox use?? He's 
peed in it, but so far hasn't had a bowel movement.? He's not been out there 
even 24 hours yet, so I'm not too terribly concerned, but how long do you guys 
think I should wait before I start to worry?

Michael

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Day 3

2007-10-11 Thread ofalegend
Ok, guys, here's the update for the day. First of all, I am even more convinced 
now, and I stand by my decision to not contact his previous owners. I just 
can't imagine anything good coming out of it.? This boy is too special to have 
to go back to that mess, and I'm afraid if I did let him go or call them,they'd 
snatch him up and stick him in a cage or something, and I'm just not willing to 
risk that.? He would come to my house for days at a time anyway, and they never 
once looked for him, and they still haven't since he disappeared two days 
ago. Because I know for a fact he hasn't been home because he's been in my 
sunroom.? This is a unique situation in that I KNOW he didn't just get away 
from his owners and get in this shape.? I've seen him for the last two years in 
the neighborhood, and the last six months he's been coming to my house every 
morning and every night.? This was just blatant neglect.? My heart is too heavy 
to even think of letting him get back in that shape again.? I really do have 
such feelings for these guys.? Someone has to be a voice for them.? I used to 
feel bad about volunteering and putting so much energy into animals when there 
are so many horrible conditions and diseases afflicting our fellow human 
beings, but the last few days I've come to an important realization, and that 
is someone has to look out for our companions, too!? There are lots of people 
who work on human charities and advocate for research and development (and I 
don't think you'll ever see a huge difference in modern disease 
treatment/management until you see a fundamental shift in Washington and the 
drug companies and HMOs lose significant control over research and development, 
but I digress, that's another topic altogther.)? But animals, who will be their 
voice?? Someone needs to fight for them, and my extreme sensitivity makes me 
suitable for that.? I swear, I can't even bear the thought of killing a mouse.? 
I have no-kill traps.? This may sound corny, but I even avoid squishing bugs if 
I can.? I'll generally scoop them up and take them outside.? I just believe in 
the inherent sanctity of life...all life, regardless of its form, is precious, 
and should be preserved.

As for King?Blanco the?Mighty Whitey (lol, I can't decide!? Jeff still says he 
is a she and her name is Whitey!) and his condition, he's continuing to do 
well.? 

He pooped last night.? I was so excited. :)

His Baytril dose is half of a 22.7mg tablet daily for 14 days.? No diarrhea or 
other problems yet, but I'll keep an eye out for sure, and I'll look into the 
probiotics.? His eyes/pupils are fine, I'm keeping a close watch on him for the 
dilation concerns mentioned.? His balance seems to be getting a little better, 
but he still has a long way to go.? Jeff set up his tent in the sunroom last 
night, and put a heating pad in it.? He's quite cozy.? He's been on it all 
night and day.? I have the webcam set up where I can keep an eye on him from 
work.? I'm gonna include a link to it and post instructions at the bottom for 
anyone who's interested :)? We're expecting the lab results in tomorrow.? I'll 
be sure to let you all know as soon as I hear about them. Oh, and by the way, I 
misunderstood Jeff.? Dr. Dolen has not actually diagnosed Hyperthyroidism, he 
just said it was likely with the thyroid tumor. We should know about that by 
Friday.? We'll also know more about the heart murmur. The vet didn't do any 
vaccinations because he wanted to wait on the bloodwork (probably to check for 
heart disease, as someone here mentioned.)? Anyway, here's the webcam and 
instructions if anyone wants to peek at Whitey.? Look in the tent on the 
right side of the screen, that white dot inside is my boy :)? Like I said, it 
really is a storage room right now, so please look over and excuse the mess 
:(? I'm gonna work on getting it cleaned up this weekend I hope.



Camera Internet address:

?

http://camera.115cr339.ourlinksys.com

?

?

Web Browser - You can View Video using Internet Explorer 5.5 or higher.? When 
you click View Video, an ActiveXcomponent (OCX file) will need to be 
downloaded and installed on your PC. You will be prompted to install this OCX 
file if this file is not present in your system.??



You'll see one of those yellow bars across the top of the window, right below 
the address bar (or tab bar if you're on?internet Explorer?7?that says Click 
here to Install ActiveX Control? You'll need to click on it, and then when 
the other window pops up that?asks about installing it, click on the Install 
button.
?

Note: The Wireless-B Internet Video Camera supports a maximum of 4 users 
simultaneously.?I don't think that will ever be a problem, but if several of 
you get this email at once and it doesn't load, you'll know just try again in a 
few minutes.? I'm gonna close my connection to free it up til I get home. 

Thanks as always for listening to my rambling.? Oh, and for the record, a 
website is 

[no subject]

2007-10-12 Thread ofalegend
Ok, guys. I just got off the phone with Whitey's vet.? Good news and what could 
potentially be really bad news.?? Good news first.

First of all, his Thyroid is normal, which Dr. Dolen says defies logic.? He 
wants to retest in a few weeks.?? All his other major organ functions were 
normal...kidneys, liver, thyroid, everything was good.

His WBC were elevated (of course, due probably to the severe ear infection).? 
He is chronically anemic (RBC was 25ish).

The thing that concerned Dr. Dolen the most was his elevated Globulin and 
Albumin levels.? His globulin was 8.4, when he says 3ish is the normal 
range,?so he said that indicated a chronic severe infection.? He's getting the 
lab to run?an ?FIP titer on the blood sample they have from the other tests, so 
we'll know something about that in about a week.? He says either the ear 
infection was so horribly bad that its a miracle he's still alive (to have 
caused such an elevated globulin level) or he has FIP.? I'm certainly hoping 
its the ear infection, something we can work with.? Any of you guys have 
experience with FIP?? I understand its deadly, usually within weeks of 
symptoms, but I was wondering about the human aspect of it..what have YOU 
guys? experienced with it?

He recommended high protein kitten food for him right now.? He said the more 
protein the better...canned tuna, chicken, whatever has the most protein.? I'm 
going to go by a local natural pet food store on my way home from work that 
carries premium kitten foods.? Also interested if any of you know what the 
absolute highest nutritional content wet food would be?? I'm thinking Innova 
kitten food in a can, maybe wellness kitten food?? Anyway, more updates when I 
get them.

Michael

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Re: Whitey, Day 8

2007-10-16 Thread ofalegend
lol, diane, the finger chewing comment cracked me up.? I found a local place 
that sells the PetsLife oral care gel, and I bought some ($28.00ouch!)? 
I'll let you guys know how it works for me.? The directions said youdon't have 
to apply it directly to the teeth as long as it gets in the mouth, so what I 
done was took an allergy syringe (1cc volume) and took the needle offthen I 
filled it with the gel, and squirted about half at a time in his mouth, on each 
side.? He didn't like it, but it got in there.??I figured that was the best 
chance I had since he doesn't tolerate people poking in his mouth very wlel. 
You should see me trying to get him to take his Baytril every day.? We've 
managed so far every day.? Anyway, I'll update you guys on the PetzLife Oral 
Care Gel when its had enough time to do something, as I said :)

~M

-Original Message-
From: Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:42 am
Subject: RE: Whitey, Day 8



Michael --

?

I got some stuff at Petco, a dental rinse for about $9 a bottle that you add to 
their water that's supposed to remove tartar and plaque.? Too soon to know if 
it's really working, though.? I looked into the Petzlife, but could only get it 
online and wanted to?try it sooner, and also there was that price thing, and 
the fact that I type for a living and couldn't afford having my fingers chewed 
off by trying to brush or apply gel. ;-).? (We have a cat who has bad tartar 
and plaque, but is a bad risk for anesthetic so?putting him under for scaling 
is not something we want to consider.? He has no problem with the taste of the 
water.)? If you go to a pet store there are several products, from?toothpaste 
to water additives, that will probably freshen Whitey's breath and get at least 
some of the gunk off his teeth.? Hopefully the rotten teeth are what's causing 
the stench rather than some other undisclosed problem.? Best of luck, you're 
doing a great job with the little guy.

?

Diane R.

?



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:22 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Whitey, Day 8




Ok, guys, we're?starting day 8 in Whitey's?intervention.? Boy is doing much 
better.? He's actually able to walk now without falling over.? He's still 
wobbly, but walking.? Still taking his Baytril, and no signs of pupil dilation 
or diarrhea?yet (one week into treatment, one week to go).? We're making 
progress.? His coat looks better every day. Still a bit rough and brittle 
but SO much better than it was a week ago!? Progress. :)? 

He's eating a variety of high-protein foods.? I stopped Friday and got several 
varieties (Wellness, Solid Gold, Purina ProPlan Kitten formula, Science Diet 
Kitten Formula, Innova EVO, and Sheba?to name a few I can remember) all of 
which have a protein content between 11%-13.5%(Solid Gold Tuna).? Still doing 
pretty well eating two cans a day or so.? We're waiting on the FIP results.? 
But I really just can't imagine he has FIP.? He's really making headway.? I 
think his ear infection was so bad he was almost toxic :(? God love him, he 
literally couldn't stand up it was so bad.? But he's making headway now.

Jeff and I went yesterday and bought new flooring (laminate for ease of 
cleaning)?and curtains for his sunroom. :)? He's gonna be syling!? I'll send 
pics when its all done!

Now, I need a bit of advice as far as his oral care is concerned.? He has the 
most horrible breath I've ever smelled. :(? Its not normal shew kitty breath 
type thing..this literally gags me if he gets too close to my face!? Help!? 
I've also noticed his little teeth are rotten, I can see why the vet needs to 
pull them.? And we'll get to that when he gets well enough, but my concern 
right now is the breath, and the slime.? His fang teeth are extremely long, 
and kinda stick out of his mouth a little bit even when its closed..and he gets 
this slimy stuff around his mouth near his fangs..also he was play nibbling on 
my arm yesterday and left all this slimy stuff...yuck!? I don't know what it 
is, or how to clean his mouth up?? Any suggestions?? Someone recommended some 
stuff on one of these lists, called PetzLife oral care gel.? It's very 
expensive ($25 a bottle), and while I don't mind to get it if it works, I'd 
hate to spend that kind of money on it if it doesn't...so, have any of you used 
this product (and how did you apply it), or can you guys recommend something 
else that might help clean his mouth up?


~M 
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!


This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may 
be privileged.  
They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient.  If you have 
received this 
transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the 
transmission from 
your system.  In addition, in order to comply 

Re: Whitey

2007-10-16 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/16/2007 10:06:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm thinking Innova Evo canned is going to the the highest,  without grains 
of course.  Let us know if you find something with  more.  I am hoping he 
doesn't have FIP, but be careful of the corona  virus titer.  I have seen 
people 
say here that that is NOT an indication  of FIP.  You might look in the 
archives 
for this.  Getting his  infection gone will be the best thing because then 
you will know from his  bloodwork what you are really dealing with.  Glad his 
thyroid is  normal.  I have seen incorrect thyroid results, where the kitty 
showed  hyperT but was not, but it's rare.


Wendy,
 
I actually found Solid Gold Tuna to be the highest protein content at  around 
13.5%.  The Innova EVO and (surprisingly) Science Diet Kitten and  Purina Pro 
Plan kitten formula all hover at around 12%.  He's had a little  bit of all 
of them :)

As for the FIP, I've been doing a bit of reading myself, and not to worry,  
regardless of the elisa titer results, I'm not going to assume its FIP unless  
he's more symptomatic.  He's definitely making progress.  He's taken 8  days 
worth of his antibiotic now, and has 3 days left.  He's still a little  
wobbly and can't quite walk straight, but he IS walking, and that's definate  
progress!  Still eating well and using the litterbox.  He really is a  trooper! 
 He 
is NOT liking that PetzLife oral care gel at ALL.  But  the funny thing is as 
mad as he gets at me, as soon as I'm done, he comes right  back and lays down 
in my lap, even though I'm making him do things he doesn't  like.  Says a lot 
about his loving personality, doesn't it?  My  three siamese in the house 
wouldn't look at me for hours if I done that to them!  LOL
 
Michael




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Whitey

2007-10-16 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/16/2007 10:25:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Good to hear from you.  Thanks for the tip on Solid Gold  Tuna.  I'll put 
that in my archives.  Do you think he'll need a  longer course of antibiotics 
given the severity of the infection?  It  bothers me that he's still a bit 
wobbly 
with only 3 days left on his  meds.  What do you think?


I'll definitely be following up with Dr. Dolen (Who I SWEAR reminds me of  
Corky Romano for those of you who have seen that movie) if his gait isn't back  
to normal.  He's supposed to call me one day this week with the FIP  results, 
and I'll mention it to him then, see what he thinks about more  antibiotics.
 
Michael



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Litterboxes

2007-10-19 Thread OfALegend
 
Ok, guys, as you know, my cat population has grown to four.  With that  comes 
an exponential number of litterboxes (three currently, thinking about  
upgrading to four), and well, honestly, litter is getting a bit expensive with  
all 
the other costs.  I'm curious about what you guys use?  Right now  I use Tidy 
Cats scoopable litter, and the Tidy cats litter deodorizer,  too.  I've also 
been changing the boxes out completely every week (at least  every other week). 
 This gets expensive, especially considering it takes a  box and a half to 
fill three boxes every week.  The problem is if I don't  change the box out 
every week, it starts to smell, and one of the litterboxes is  in the 
guestroom. 
:(  
 
So my question is, what kind of litter do you guys use, and what protocol  do 
you use to keep the odor to a minimum?  What are the  differences in 
scoopable versus non-scoopable?  I'd appreciate any  opinions on the matter. :)

~Michael




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Whitey's Test Results

2007-10-20 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/20/2007 11:24:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Wow Michael!  The things we do for our kitties!  I am so glad  his test was 
negative!  It sounds like you are exstatic!  The only  thing I am wondering now 
is if it's too soon to do his vaccines.  Is he  feeling really good and not 
sick at all?  I worry about that because  the vaccines make some kitties feel 
bad and if Whitey is already under the  weather, it might not be a good combo 
right now.  Please keep us  posted


I've thought about that, Wendy.  Corky Romano said he was going to  check his 
labs first, and then if everything looks ok, proceed with the other  stuff.  
I'm thinking I may ask him to do the dental work, labs and  neutering, and 
wait off for a couple of weeks on the vaccines to make sure he's  up to it.  I 
know my other girls got terribly ill when they had all three  of their vaccines 
at once. The more I've thought about it, the more I think  that may be the 
best course of action.


~M



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Whitey's Test Results and vaccinations

2007-10-20 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/20/2007 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hello. My vet does only one vaccination at a time and does them  separately 
from the spay/neuter. He goes 2-4 weeks between each vaccination  and the 
altering. Is there any point in vaccinating him for feline leukemia? I  would 
be 
hesitant, I guess. Just my opinion. I only do the distemper series  and rabies 
now. I am considering discontinuing all vaccinations for my immune  compromised 
cats (allergies and asthma).  All my cats have had the feline  leukemia in 
earlier years. None have been vaccinated for it since 2001.
Laurie



Laurie/Jane:
 
Laurie, I'm vaccinating him for FeLV because I do have two positive cats in  
the house.  Granted, he's isolated in a separate area, I'd still just feel  
better, considering his close proximity to the virus, having him  vaccinated.
 
Jane, I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask how I posted his  
picture??  The pic was taken in the vet's office with a camera phone, which  
Jeff sent 
to me.  I then inserted the pictures in an email and sent  them.  Whitey is 
living in my sunroom, so taking pictures isn't hard.   I'm sorry if I'm missing 
the point of what you're asking? 



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Whitey's Test Results and vaccinations

2007-10-20 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/20/2007 1:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I did  not think it possible to send photos to the list.


Laurie,
 
I'm not sure.  Possibly because I inserted the pictures in the email  instead 
of attaching them as files?  You might try that.  
 
 
~M



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Litterboxes

2007-10-20 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/20/2007 4:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

None of this does anything for keeping down on garbage.. which I think  
explains why my trash collectors put everyone else's garbage cans neatly back  
in 
their driveway, while mine are the only ones strewn in the yard. Can really  
say that I blame them... by the end of the week, we have a lot of poop.  :)


LOL, Neffie! That cracked me up.  I have exactly the same  problem.  My next 
door neighbor's trash cans are always placed neatly back  where they were, 
upright and lids on.  Mine are hurled back into my yard on  their sides, lids 
and 
cans seperate.
 
~M



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Litterboxes

2007-10-20 Thread OfALegend
 
In a message dated 10/20/2007 4:38:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Sam's Club has 12 lb bags of A  H baking soda for about  $4.00.


You guys just mix the baking soda in the litter?  Do you think that  works as 
well as the litter box deodorizer you buy in cans?  I might  consider using 
that instead of that expensive deodorizer.
 
~M



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Whitey

2007-11-05 Thread OfALegend
 
Hey guys.  Whitey is still having some issues and I was hoping some  of the 
more experienced people around might have an idea of what's up.  
 
The problem I'm seeing is he's still disoriented/The problem I'm seeing is 
he's still disoriented/WB  I can't figure out whats wrong with  him!  We 
thought it was a severe inner ear infection, but after 4 weeks on  Baytril,  it 
still hasn't cleared up. (It seems to have gotten much better,  but not gone).  
He 
also had horribly bad teeth, all of which were pulled  two weeks ago.  I was 
thinking maybe that was part of it, but he's still  doing it two weeks after 
the dental work and 2 weeks on Baytril, so I'm at a  loss here.  He's about 12 
years old for those of you who may not  remember.  He's otherwise asympomatic. 
 He doesn't appear to be in any  pain.  He's quite friendly still and purs 
when he's in my lap, he gets  around, eats and drinks well, using the litterbox 
well, other than the walking  with his head sideways and stumbling his health 
is a thousand times better than  it was when I took him in, but I just can't 
figure the dizziness out.
 
Any thoughts on what might be causing it? Or how to treat?  Should I  
schedule him another vet appointment?  He has to go back on the 13th for  his 
FeLV 
booster, so I'll definitely talk to the vet then, but I didn't know if  I 
should 
consider taking him in earlier.
 
Michael




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Litterboxes

2007-11-06 Thread ofalegend
I had three cats when I tried the crystals alone, and I did *not* like the 
results at all.? The crystals yellowed and smelled horrible before a week was 
up.? They just didn't work for me at all; however, with the suggestions you 
guys? had, I tried mixing my Tidy Cats with crystals (I split a bag of crystals 
from Wal-Mart between three litterboxes and the rest Tidy Cats) and I really 
think it helped a lot.? I think I'm going to try sticking with that combination 
for a while!


-Original Message-
From: Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 8:28 am
Subject: Re: Litterboxes



Even some of the litter companies mix the crystals and scoopable.? I just 
prefer to do it myself so I know what is what (and it is cheaper).? I have gone 
all silica with a cat and it was great.? Aside from scooping out the poop 
regularly the litter didn't need to be changed as long as it was absorbing 
urine (about a month with this guy).? And no urine odor.? But, for a lot of 
cats?

?

?

?

?

?

?

 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
? St. Francis


- Original Message - 

From: catatonya 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 

Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:58 AM

Subject: Re: Litterboxes




I'm going to try mixing some.? I thought it should be all or nothing with the 
crystals.? And I can't afford to go all crystals.

thanks,

t

Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Sorry.? silica pearls or crystals...I'm building a house and my 
mind wandered from litter to caulk to flowers.? 

?

Dixie doesn't like the pearls.? They get stuck under her nails and in her 
paws.? They don't hurt but they aggravate.? She is fine with the crystals.? I 
wish she would use them without the A and H but they make a lot of noise and 
that upsets her.? 

?

?

?

?

?

 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
? St. Francis


- Original Message - 

From: catatonya 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 

Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:25 AM

Subject: Re: Litterboxes



silica gel

Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Try the silica gel.I mix it with the A  H scoopable and it works 
wonders.? I use Rubber Maid 18 gallon boxes or something similar too.

?

?

?

?

?

 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
? St. Francis


- Original Message - 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:13 PM

Subject: Litterboxes





Ok, guys, as you know, my cat population has grown to four.? With that comes an 
exponential number of litterboxes (three currently, thinking about upgrading to 
four), and well, honestly, litter is getting a bit expensive with all the other 
costs.? I'm curious about what you guys use?? Right now I use Tidy Cats 
scoopable litter, and the Tidy cats litter deodorizer, too.? I've also been 
changing the boxes out completely every week (at least every other week).? This 
gets expensive, especially considering it takes a box and a half to fill three 
boxes every week.? The problem is if I don't change the box out every week, it 
starts to smell, and one of the litterboxes is in the guestroom. :(? 

?

So my question is, what kind of litter do you guys use, and what protocol do 
you use to keep the odor to a minimum???What are the differences?in scoopable 
versus non-scoopable?? I'd appreciate any opinions on the matter. :)

~Michael





See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.










Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


We are having issues

2007-11-08 Thread OfALegend
Ok, guys.  I hope someone can figure this situation out, because I'm  at my 
wit's end.  Two of my girls are NOT getting along, and I don't know  what to 
do.  Penelope (FeLV negative, 2 years old, very standoffish  personality, not a 
friendly type cat, doesn't want to be held, only wants  attention when SHE 
wants it, a loner, etc) and Grizzabella (FeLV positive, 7  years old, very 
friendly, never met a stranger, not so much a lap cat, but  doesn't mind being 
petted and isn't afraid of strangers at all) are  constantly at each other. :(  
They never really liked each other, but the  last few months it has gotten 
progressively worse.  To the point that  Penelope is afraid to come out of the 
bedroom.  She was pooping/peeing  under the bed.  And I know it was just 
because she was afraid of  Grizzabella and wouldn't come out of the bedroom.  
We 
finally had to put a  litterbox in there for her, and food/water.  
 
What I have noticed is they seem to attack each other, depending on their  
mood, but one always jumps the other.  They can't even pass in the hall  
without 
fighting, and I don't know what to do.  There doesn't seem to be  any 
precursor/cuase.  All it seems to take is one of them seeing the other  and 
they're 
off.  I'm really worried Bella is going to end up scratching  Penny and 
infecting her.  Right now when they start I just put Bella in the  guestroom 
for a 
few hours so Penelope can come out of the bedroom, and then when  we leave of 
the morning I let Bella out and Penelope spends the day in the  bedroom.  Any 
of 
you guys had any success with behavior modification?   I welcome any 
thoughts/ideas on what has worked for you guys in the past.   Poppy, the third 
one in 
the house proper, gets along with both of them, for the  most part.  I've seen 
Poppy jump Penny a time or two, but certainly nothing  like the other two. :( 
 Penny and Poppy do well together most of the time  (they both sleep in my 
bed at night).  Any  ideas?



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Penelope/Grizzabella

2007-11-12 Thread OfALegend
Ok, guys, thought I'd update you on the situation with the two fighting  
girls. 
 

Jeff took Penelope (FeLV negative) to the vet today.  We noticed  last night 
that her left eye was beginning to cloud up.  Dr. Dolen said she  had 
scratched her cornea somehow in at least a couple different places (he used  
the 
phosphorescent light thing).  I figure its where she and  Bella(FeLV+) have 
been 
fighting so much. :(  Anyway, he gave her eye  ointment (Neomycin and Polymyxin 
B Sulfates and Bacitracin Zinc) that she's  supposed to get three to four 
times daily.  We've managed to get it in once  so far.  She is NOT tolerating 
it 
at all..  Its very stressful for  her.  But we'll see if she gets used to it 
as we try it more often.   She goes back in a week so he can check up on her.  
Any of you guys  have any recommendations on how to put ointment in a cat's 
eye? A very skiddish  spastic cat?
 
As for the fighting/aggression, Dr. Dolen prescribed Buspirone (generic  
BuSpar) 2.5mg daily for Penny and Grizzabella.  We're going to give it a  try 
and 
see how it goes.  Has anyone had any experience with Buspirone in  cats?  I 
know its a human psychotropic drug often used to treat  
aggression/behavioral/anxiety issues, but I've never heard of it being used in  
cats!  He said give it 
three weeks and we'll see how its going.
 
Michael




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: detailed video of seizure

2007-11-19 Thread ofalegend

I just wanted to second this, Jane.? Regardless of people's feelings for Susan 
OR Kelly, the fact remains that this story was done by a reputable news 
organization.?The story isn't made up.?I highly doubt?a news organization 
would use fabricated stories.???The media is, by its nature, supposed to be 
impartial reporters of facts.?The video footage isn't made up, and I just 
find it hard to believe the humane society (or any other organization for that 
matter) would remove animals without justification.? AND add to that the fact 
that the animals *were* removed, and obviously with enough evidence that the 
judge ordered their removal to be permanent.? Of course, some people will see 
what they want to see in the situation. Some will side with both parties.? But 
I think the important thing to remember is a) they would not likely have 
removed the animals without just cause and b) a judge certainly wouldn't have 
allowed them to stay removed without justification.? If you don't believe 
anyone involved in the story, logic would demand that you trust the impartial 
judge in the case to have made the right decision in not allowing any more 
animals back in the home (with the exception of three personal cats).



I echo the sentiments?of those of you that?pray for healing.? For the kitties, 
and for Kelly, as well as anyone else who's involved in this, emotionally or 
physically.? Its a tough situation.? But lets not attack each other, or 
discredit any stories because of the source.? You seriously need to consider 
the content of the material (including what I'm sure is public record if anyone 
wants to obtain a copy from the Courthouse) and not the messenger.

Michael


-Original Message-
From: Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Carol Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED]; asr 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 2:10 pm
Subject: Re: detailed video of seizure



This is a very disturbing report. When and how does rescue morph into abuse 
and unspeakable neglect?

This is a tragedy that has unfolded before all of us. I am sickened by the 
details and the silence that surrounds this.




I hope that each one of these cats will get the attention and care that they 
deserve. I hope everyone involved in

supporting or perpetuating this rescue will deal with reality of the 
aberration and deception behind it. I hope

that Kelley can give up caring for cats until she gets the spiritual, emotional 
and psychological help she needs to care for herself.




Jane Lyons












On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Susan Dubose wrote:



http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=73B37C7EB953F92DE72091AC38484F0C?contentId=4971854version=1locale=EN-USlayoutCode=VSTYpageId=1.1.1sflg=1
?

Susan J. DuBose? ^..^
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
? As Cleopatra lay in state,
?? Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
?? Purring welcomes of soft applause,
?? Ever guarding with sharpened claws.
 Trajan Tennent

?

?

?

?






= 


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com


Re: detailed video of seizure

2007-11-19 Thread ofalegend
You know, I'm going to try and breathe and count to ten before I respond to 
this post.? Actually, no, I don't think I will.? I posted an emotionally 
neutral, nonspecific post in response to that rubbish you've been spouting off, 
and you attack me. Prepare thyself for my response.? You, and a couple of 
others on this list, seem to try and bully everyone else into thinking the way 
you do.? I don't think you have the cat's best interest at heart.? I think you 
have your clique in your sights, the people you like for whatever reason, and 
the hell with everything else, including the facts.

Does this group not have a moderator?? I assure you, as small as my group is, 
this kind of thing is not and would not be tolerated.? You have been so 
negative.? Both here and on other lists we are both on.? I don't get it.? I 
don't understand how this type of behavior is benefitting you. What do you get 
out of it?

How the hell is it so easy to look over the fact that a judge agreed with 
animal control on the situation?? Contrary to what you want to believe, I 
seriously doubt animal control had a vendetta against Kelly.? Or anyone else 
for thatmatter.? I don't know who the hell you think you are, but let me state 
very clearly for you I don't personlly care what you, or anyone else on this 
list who defends that type of hoarding, says or thinks about me.?My *only* 
concern is?for the safety, health and welfare of ALL of God's little 
creatures...what you think of me for that is of no consequence to me. Quite 
frankly, you're? just not important?enough to matter.?How dare you call *me* 
naive?? What's funny to me is you choose to be so damn?conspiracy theorist?as 
to say the judge is corrupt, animal control is corrupt, the news is corrupt, 
they're all out to get poor little Kelly? Jesus, Lady.? What kind of world are 
you living in?? You can stand by whatever you want to.? I hope that email you 
sent to Jim gets some attention, indeed, because I absolutely will be 
unsubscribing after this.? I don't need to have to listen to people like you.? 
I have enough of a real life and real issues to deal with without putting up 
with this insanity.

It is NOT ok for someone to use this group as a fundraising campaign, and then 
have two (all I've seen so far is two, that should tell you something) people 
defending her and trying to crush any opposing viewpoint.? You think that shows 
maturity to email the list owner and ask on a public forum for someone to be 
removed because you don't like them??? I'll copy the list owner as well, just 
so I'll feel important and special too.? You can believe whoever you want and 
whatever you want, but so far the evidence has been provided by animal control 
and not Kelly (at least I haven't seen any pictures of a clean house either, 
have you?)? I don't know Sheila, or Susan personally, but I know Sheila's 
sanctuary took in 15 of the cats.? What have YOU Done to help the situation 
other than spout off?

Ya know what, bottom line is there are too many other useful sources of 
information out there to put up with people like you who try to police a group 
(without ANY official standing whatsoever).? I really do hope this group owner 
pays some attention to what's been going on, and sets some ground rules.? I 
never once, not from the beginning, sided with anyone on this issue, but I am 
sick and tired of seeing people like Belinda continually attack people they? 
don't agree with.

Again, I'll close with this, anyone interested in joining another (very small) 
group that IS moderated, have a look at: 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia/
And in the interest of full disclosure, this is my group that I started after 
the last blowup here, and it is moderated by mysef, but I assure?you, no 
dissenting opinions are attacked or silenced there as they have notoriously 
been here.


A very disgusted and disappointed FeLV+ cat owner,
Michael



-Original Message-
From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: detailed video of seizure


?? OH really how about the high and mighty Dan Rather getting fired over a 
story that was completely fabricated, come on open your eyes the news is very 
baised about what they report and they love to twist things to be the way they 
want them to be ... 
regardless of people's feelings for Susan OR Kelly, the fact remains that this 
story was done by a reputable news organization.?The story isn't made up.
PS.? With all the political corruptness in the world how can you be so naive?? 
Just because someone is a judge or vet or any other professional doesn't make 
them honest.

If you don't believe anyone involved in the story, logic would demand that you 
trust the impartial judge in the case to have made the right decision in not 
allowing any more animals back in the home (with the exception of three 
personal cats).
I stand by what I said, when they do a story here