Re: detailed video of seizure
I just wanted to second this, Jane.? Regardless of people's feelings for Susan OR Kelly, the fact remains that this story was done by a reputable news organization.?The story isn't made up.?I highly doubt?a news organization would use fabricated stories.???The media is, by its nature, supposed to be impartial reporters of facts.?The video footage isn't made up, and I just find it hard to believe the humane society (or any other organization for that matter) would remove animals without justification.? AND add to that the fact that the animals *were* removed, and obviously with enough evidence that the judge ordered their removal to be permanent.? Of course, some people will see what they want to see in the situation. Some will side with both parties.? But I think the important thing to remember is a) they would not likely have removed the animals without just cause and b) a judge certainly wouldn't have allowed them to stay removed without justification.? If you don't believe anyone involved in the story, logic would demand that you trust the impartial judge in the case to have made the right decision in not allowing any more animals back in the home (with the exception of three personal cats). I echo the sentiments?of those of you that?pray for healing.? For the kitties, and for Kelly, as well as anyone else who's involved in this, emotionally or physically.? Its a tough situation.? But lets not attack each other, or discredit any stories because of the source.? You seriously need to consider the content of the material (including what I'm sure is public record if anyone wants to obtain a copy from the Courthouse) and not the messenger. Michael -Original Message- From: Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Carol Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED]; asr [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 2:10 pm Subject: Re: detailed video of seizure This is a very disturbing report. When and how does rescue morph into abuse and unspeakable neglect? This is a tragedy that has unfolded before all of us. I am sickened by the details and the silence that surrounds this. I hope that each one of these cats will get the attention and care that they deserve. I hope everyone involved in supporting or perpetuating this rescue will deal with reality of the aberration and deception behind it. I hope that Kelley can give up caring for cats until she gets the spiritual, emotional and psychological help she needs to care for herself. Jane Lyons On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Susan Dubose wrote: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=73B37C7EB953F92DE72091AC38484F0C?contentId=4971854version=1locale=EN-USlayoutCode=VSTYpageId=1.1.1sflg=1 ? Susan J. DuBose? ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net ? As Cleopatra lay in state, ?? Faithful Bast at her side did wait, ?? Purring welcomes of soft applause, ?? Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent ? ? ? ? = Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: detailed video of seizure
You know, I'm going to try and breathe and count to ten before I respond to this post.? Actually, no, I don't think I will.? I posted an emotionally neutral, nonspecific post in response to that rubbish you've been spouting off, and you attack me. Prepare thyself for my response.? You, and a couple of others on this list, seem to try and bully everyone else into thinking the way you do.? I don't think you have the cat's best interest at heart.? I think you have your clique in your sights, the people you like for whatever reason, and the hell with everything else, including the facts. Does this group not have a moderator?? I assure you, as small as my group is, this kind of thing is not and would not be tolerated.? You have been so negative.? Both here and on other lists we are both on.? I don't get it.? I don't understand how this type of behavior is benefitting you. What do you get out of it? How the hell is it so easy to look over the fact that a judge agreed with animal control on the situation?? Contrary to what you want to believe, I seriously doubt animal control had a vendetta against Kelly.? Or anyone else for thatmatter.? I don't know who the hell you think you are, but let me state very clearly for you I don't personlly care what you, or anyone else on this list who defends that type of hoarding, says or thinks about me.?My *only* concern is?for the safety, health and welfare of ALL of God's little creatures...what you think of me for that is of no consequence to me. Quite frankly, you're? just not important?enough to matter.?How dare you call *me* naive?? What's funny to me is you choose to be so damn?conspiracy theorist?as to say the judge is corrupt, animal control is corrupt, the news is corrupt, they're all out to get poor little Kelly? Jesus, Lady.? What kind of world are you living in?? You can stand by whatever you want to.? I hope that email you sent to Jim gets some attention, indeed, because I absolutely will be unsubscribing after this.? I don't need to have to listen to people like you.? I have enough of a real life and real issues to deal with without putting up with this insanity. It is NOT ok for someone to use this group as a fundraising campaign, and then have two (all I've seen so far is two, that should tell you something) people defending her and trying to crush any opposing viewpoint.? You think that shows maturity to email the list owner and ask on a public forum for someone to be removed because you don't like them??? I'll copy the list owner as well, just so I'll feel important and special too.? You can believe whoever you want and whatever you want, but so far the evidence has been provided by animal control and not Kelly (at least I haven't seen any pictures of a clean house either, have you?)? I don't know Sheila, or Susan personally, but I know Sheila's sanctuary took in 15 of the cats.? What have YOU Done to help the situation other than spout off? Ya know what, bottom line is there are too many other useful sources of information out there to put up with people like you who try to police a group (without ANY official standing whatsoever).? I really do hope this group owner pays some attention to what's been going on, and sets some ground rules.? I never once, not from the beginning, sided with anyone on this issue, but I am sick and tired of seeing people like Belinda continually attack people they? don't agree with. Again, I'll close with this, anyone interested in joining another (very small) group that IS moderated, have a look at: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia/ And in the interest of full disclosure, this is my group that I started after the last blowup here, and it is moderated by mysef, but I assure?you, no dissenting opinions are attacked or silenced there as they have notoriously been here. A very disgusted and disappointed FeLV+ cat owner, Michael -Original Message- From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 2:46 pm Subject: Re: detailed video of seizure ?? OH really how about the high and mighty Dan Rather getting fired over a story that was completely fabricated, come on open your eyes the news is very baised about what they report and they love to twist things to be the way they want them to be ... regardless of people's feelings for Susan OR Kelly, the fact remains that this story was done by a reputable news organization.?The story isn't made up. PS.? With all the political corruptness in the world how can you be so naive?? Just because someone is a judge or vet or any other professional doesn't make them honest. If you don't believe anyone involved in the story, logic would demand that you trust the impartial judge in the case to have made the right decision in not allowing any more animals back in the home (with the exception of three personal cats). I stand by what I said, when they do a story here
Penelope/Grizzabella
Ok, guys, thought I'd update you on the situation with the two fighting girls. Jeff took Penelope (FeLV negative) to the vet today. We noticed last night that her left eye was beginning to cloud up. Dr. Dolen said she had scratched her cornea somehow in at least a couple different places (he used the phosphorescent light thing). I figure its where she and Bella(FeLV+) have been fighting so much. :( Anyway, he gave her eye ointment (Neomycin and Polymyxin B Sulfates and Bacitracin Zinc) that she's supposed to get three to four times daily. We've managed to get it in once so far. She is NOT tolerating it at all.. Its very stressful for her. But we'll see if she gets used to it as we try it more often. She goes back in a week so he can check up on her. Any of you guys have any recommendations on how to put ointment in a cat's eye? A very skiddish spastic cat? As for the fighting/aggression, Dr. Dolen prescribed Buspirone (generic BuSpar) 2.5mg daily for Penny and Grizzabella. We're going to give it a try and see how it goes. Has anyone had any experience with Buspirone in cats? I know its a human psychotropic drug often used to treat aggression/behavioral/anxiety issues, but I've never heard of it being used in cats! He said give it three weeks and we'll see how its going. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
We are having issues
Ok, guys. I hope someone can figure this situation out, because I'm at my wit's end. Two of my girls are NOT getting along, and I don't know what to do. Penelope (FeLV negative, 2 years old, very standoffish personality, not a friendly type cat, doesn't want to be held, only wants attention when SHE wants it, a loner, etc) and Grizzabella (FeLV positive, 7 years old, very friendly, never met a stranger, not so much a lap cat, but doesn't mind being petted and isn't afraid of strangers at all) are constantly at each other. :( They never really liked each other, but the last few months it has gotten progressively worse. To the point that Penelope is afraid to come out of the bedroom. She was pooping/peeing under the bed. And I know it was just because she was afraid of Grizzabella and wouldn't come out of the bedroom. We finally had to put a litterbox in there for her, and food/water. What I have noticed is they seem to attack each other, depending on their mood, but one always jumps the other. They can't even pass in the hall without fighting, and I don't know what to do. There doesn't seem to be any precursor/cuase. All it seems to take is one of them seeing the other and they're off. I'm really worried Bella is going to end up scratching Penny and infecting her. Right now when they start I just put Bella in the guestroom for a few hours so Penelope can come out of the bedroom, and then when we leave of the morning I let Bella out and Penelope spends the day in the bedroom. Any of you guys had any success with behavior modification? I welcome any thoughts/ideas on what has worked for you guys in the past. Poppy, the third one in the house proper, gets along with both of them, for the most part. I've seen Poppy jump Penny a time or two, but certainly nothing like the other two. :( Penny and Poppy do well together most of the time (they both sleep in my bed at night). Any ideas? ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Litterboxes
I had three cats when I tried the crystals alone, and I did *not* like the results at all.? The crystals yellowed and smelled horrible before a week was up.? They just didn't work for me at all; however, with the suggestions you guys? had, I tried mixing my Tidy Cats with crystals (I split a bag of crystals from Wal-Mart between three litterboxes and the rest Tidy Cats) and I really think it helped a lot.? I think I'm going to try sticking with that combination for a while! -Original Message- From: Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 8:28 am Subject: Re: Litterboxes Even some of the litter companies mix the crystals and scoopable.? I just prefer to do it myself so I know what is what (and it is cheaper).? I have gone all silica with a cat and it was great.? Aside from scooping out the poop regularly the litter didn't need to be changed as long as it was absorbing urine (about a month with this guy).? And no urine odor.? But, for a lot of cats? ? ? ? ? ? ? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. ? St. Francis - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:58 AM Subject: Re: Litterboxes I'm going to try mixing some.? I thought it should be all or nothing with the crystals.? And I can't afford to go all crystals. thanks, t Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry.? silica pearls or crystals...I'm building a house and my mind wandered from litter to caulk to flowers.? ? Dixie doesn't like the pearls.? They get stuck under her nails and in her paws.? They don't hurt but they aggravate.? She is fine with the crystals.? I wish she would use them without the A and H but they make a lot of noise and that upsets her.? ? ? ? ? ? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. ? St. Francis - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:25 AM Subject: Re: Litterboxes silica gel Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try the silica gel.I mix it with the A H scoopable and it works wonders.? I use Rubber Maid 18 gallon boxes or something similar too. ? ? ? ? ? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. ? St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Litterboxes Ok, guys, as you know, my cat population has grown to four.? With that comes an exponential number of litterboxes (three currently, thinking about upgrading to four), and well, honestly, litter is getting a bit expensive with all the other costs.? I'm curious about what you guys use?? Right now I use Tidy Cats scoopable litter, and the Tidy cats litter deodorizer, too.? I've also been changing the boxes out completely every week (at least every other week).? This gets expensive, especially considering it takes a box and a half to fill three boxes every week.? The problem is if I don't change the box out every week, it starts to smell, and one of the litterboxes is in the guestroom. :(? ? So my question is, what kind of litter do you guys use, and what protocol do you use to keep the odor to a minimum???What are the differences?in scoopable versus non-scoopable?? I'd appreciate any opinions on the matter. :) ~Michael See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Whitey
Hey guys. Whitey is still having some issues and I was hoping some of the more experienced people around might have an idea of what's up. The problem I'm seeing is he's still disoriented/The problem I'm seeing is he's still disoriented/WB I can't figure out whats wrong with him! We thought it was a severe inner ear infection, but after 4 weeks on Baytril, it still hasn't cleared up. (It seems to have gotten much better, but not gone). He also had horribly bad teeth, all of which were pulled two weeks ago. I was thinking maybe that was part of it, but he's still doing it two weeks after the dental work and 2 weeks on Baytril, so I'm at a loss here. He's about 12 years old for those of you who may not remember. He's otherwise asympomatic. He doesn't appear to be in any pain. He's quite friendly still and purs when he's in my lap, he gets around, eats and drinks well, using the litterbox well, other than the walking with his head sideways and stumbling his health is a thousand times better than it was when I took him in, but I just can't figure the dizziness out. Any thoughts on what might be causing it? Or how to treat? Should I schedule him another vet appointment? He has to go back on the 13th for his FeLV booster, so I'll definitely talk to the vet then, but I didn't know if I should consider taking him in earlier. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Whitey's Test Results
In a message dated 10/20/2007 11:24:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow Michael! The things we do for our kitties! I am so glad his test was negative! It sounds like you are exstatic! The only thing I am wondering now is if it's too soon to do his vaccines. Is he feeling really good and not sick at all? I worry about that because the vaccines make some kitties feel bad and if Whitey is already under the weather, it might not be a good combo right now. Please keep us posted I've thought about that, Wendy. Corky Romano said he was going to check his labs first, and then if everything looks ok, proceed with the other stuff. I'm thinking I may ask him to do the dental work, labs and neutering, and wait off for a couple of weeks on the vaccines to make sure he's up to it. I know my other girls got terribly ill when they had all three of their vaccines at once. The more I've thought about it, the more I think that may be the best course of action. ~M ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Whitey's Test Results and vaccinations
In a message dated 10/20/2007 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello. My vet does only one vaccination at a time and does them separately from the spay/neuter. He goes 2-4 weeks between each vaccination and the altering. Is there any point in vaccinating him for feline leukemia? I would be hesitant, I guess. Just my opinion. I only do the distemper series and rabies now. I am considering discontinuing all vaccinations for my immune compromised cats (allergies and asthma). All my cats have had the feline leukemia in earlier years. None have been vaccinated for it since 2001. Laurie Laurie/Jane: Laurie, I'm vaccinating him for FeLV because I do have two positive cats in the house. Granted, he's isolated in a separate area, I'd still just feel better, considering his close proximity to the virus, having him vaccinated. Jane, I'm not sure what you're asking when you ask how I posted his picture?? The pic was taken in the vet's office with a camera phone, which Jeff sent to me. I then inserted the pictures in an email and sent them. Whitey is living in my sunroom, so taking pictures isn't hard. I'm sorry if I'm missing the point of what you're asking? ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Whitey's Test Results and vaccinations
In a message dated 10/20/2007 1:42:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I did not think it possible to send photos to the list. Laurie, I'm not sure. Possibly because I inserted the pictures in the email instead of attaching them as files? You might try that. ~M ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Litterboxes
In a message dated 10/20/2007 4:18:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of this does anything for keeping down on garbage.. which I think explains why my trash collectors put everyone else's garbage cans neatly back in their driveway, while mine are the only ones strewn in the yard. Can really say that I blame them... by the end of the week, we have a lot of poop. :) LOL, Neffie! That cracked me up. I have exactly the same problem. My next door neighbor's trash cans are always placed neatly back where they were, upright and lids on. Mine are hurled back into my yard on their sides, lids and cans seperate. ~M ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Litterboxes
In a message dated 10/20/2007 4:38:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sam's Club has 12 lb bags of A H baking soda for about $4.00. You guys just mix the baking soda in the litter? Do you think that works as well as the litter box deodorizer you buy in cans? I might consider using that instead of that expensive deodorizer. ~M ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Litterboxes
Ok, guys, as you know, my cat population has grown to four. With that comes an exponential number of litterboxes (three currently, thinking about upgrading to four), and well, honestly, litter is getting a bit expensive with all the other costs. I'm curious about what you guys use? Right now I use Tidy Cats scoopable litter, and the Tidy cats litter deodorizer, too. I've also been changing the boxes out completely every week (at least every other week). This gets expensive, especially considering it takes a box and a half to fill three boxes every week. The problem is if I don't change the box out every week, it starts to smell, and one of the litterboxes is in the guestroom. :( So my question is, what kind of litter do you guys use, and what protocol do you use to keep the odor to a minimum? What are the differences in scoopable versus non-scoopable? I'd appreciate any opinions on the matter. :) ~Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Whitey, Day 8
lol, diane, the finger chewing comment cracked me up.? I found a local place that sells the PetsLife oral care gel, and I bought some ($28.00ouch!)? I'll let you guys know how it works for me.? The directions said youdon't have to apply it directly to the teeth as long as it gets in the mouth, so what I done was took an allergy syringe (1cc volume) and took the needle offthen I filled it with the gel, and squirted about half at a time in his mouth, on each side.? He didn't like it, but it got in there.??I figured that was the best chance I had since he doesn't tolerate people poking in his mouth very wlel. You should see me trying to get him to take his Baytril every day.? We've managed so far every day.? Anyway, I'll update you guys on the PetzLife Oral Care Gel when its had enough time to do something, as I said :) ~M -Original Message- From: Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:42 am Subject: RE: Whitey, Day 8 Michael -- ? I got some stuff at Petco, a dental rinse for about $9 a bottle that you add to their water that's supposed to remove tartar and plaque.? Too soon to know if it's really working, though.? I looked into the Petzlife, but could only get it online and wanted to?try it sooner, and also there was that price thing, and the fact that I type for a living and couldn't afford having my fingers chewed off by trying to brush or apply gel. ;-).? (We have a cat who has bad tartar and plaque, but is a bad risk for anesthetic so?putting him under for scaling is not something we want to consider.? He has no problem with the taste of the water.)? If you go to a pet store there are several products, from?toothpaste to water additives, that will probably freshen Whitey's breath and get at least some of the gunk off his teeth.? Hopefully the rotten teeth are what's causing the stench rather than some other undisclosed problem.? Best of luck, you're doing a great job with the little guy. ? Diane R. ? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:22 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Whitey, Day 8 Ok, guys, we're?starting day 8 in Whitey's?intervention.? Boy is doing much better.? He's actually able to walk now without falling over.? He's still wobbly, but walking.? Still taking his Baytril, and no signs of pupil dilation or diarrhea?yet (one week into treatment, one week to go).? We're making progress.? His coat looks better every day. Still a bit rough and brittle but SO much better than it was a week ago!? Progress. :)? He's eating a variety of high-protein foods.? I stopped Friday and got several varieties (Wellness, Solid Gold, Purina ProPlan Kitten formula, Science Diet Kitten Formula, Innova EVO, and Sheba?to name a few I can remember) all of which have a protein content between 11%-13.5%(Solid Gold Tuna).? Still doing pretty well eating two cans a day or so.? We're waiting on the FIP results.? But I really just can't imagine he has FIP.? He's really making headway.? I think his ear infection was so bad he was almost toxic :(? God love him, he literally couldn't stand up it was so bad.? But he's making headway now. Jeff and I went yesterday and bought new flooring (laminate for ease of cleaning)?and curtains for his sunroom. :)? He's gonna be syling!? I'll send pics when its all done! Now, I need a bit of advice as far as his oral care is concerned.? He has the most horrible breath I've ever smelled. :(? Its not normal shew kitty breath type thing..this literally gags me if he gets too close to my face!? Help!? I've also noticed his little teeth are rotten, I can see why the vet needs to pull them.? And we'll get to that when he gets well enough, but my concern right now is the breath, and the slime.? His fang teeth are extremely long, and kinda stick out of his mouth a little bit even when its closed..and he gets this slimy stuff around his mouth near his fangs..also he was play nibbling on my arm yesterday and left all this slimy stuff...yuck!? I don't know what it is, or how to clean his mouth up?? Any suggestions?? Someone recommended some stuff on one of these lists, called PetzLife oral care gel.? It's very expensive ($25 a bottle), and while I don't mind to get it if it works, I'd hate to spend that kind of money on it if it doesn't...so, have any of you used this product (and how did you apply it), or can you guys recommend something else that might help clean his mouth up? ~M Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply
Re: Whitey
In a message dated 10/16/2007 10:06:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm thinking Innova Evo canned is going to the the highest, without grains of course. Let us know if you find something with more. I am hoping he doesn't have FIP, but be careful of the corona virus titer. I have seen people say here that that is NOT an indication of FIP. You might look in the archives for this. Getting his infection gone will be the best thing because then you will know from his bloodwork what you are really dealing with. Glad his thyroid is normal. I have seen incorrect thyroid results, where the kitty showed hyperT but was not, but it's rare. Wendy, I actually found Solid Gold Tuna to be the highest protein content at around 13.5%. The Innova EVO and (surprisingly) Science Diet Kitten and Purina Pro Plan kitten formula all hover at around 12%. He's had a little bit of all of them :) As for the FIP, I've been doing a bit of reading myself, and not to worry, regardless of the elisa titer results, I'm not going to assume its FIP unless he's more symptomatic. He's definitely making progress. He's taken 8 days worth of his antibiotic now, and has 3 days left. He's still a little wobbly and can't quite walk straight, but he IS walking, and that's definate progress! Still eating well and using the litterbox. He really is a trooper! He is NOT liking that PetzLife oral care gel at ALL. But the funny thing is as mad as he gets at me, as soon as I'm done, he comes right back and lays down in my lap, even though I'm making him do things he doesn't like. Says a lot about his loving personality, doesn't it? My three siamese in the house wouldn't look at me for hours if I done that to them! LOL Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Whitey
In a message dated 10/16/2007 10:25:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good to hear from you. Thanks for the tip on Solid Gold Tuna. I'll put that in my archives. Do you think he'll need a longer course of antibiotics given the severity of the infection? It bothers me that he's still a bit wobbly with only 3 days left on his meds. What do you think? I'll definitely be following up with Dr. Dolen (Who I SWEAR reminds me of Corky Romano for those of you who have seen that movie) if his gait isn't back to normal. He's supposed to call me one day this week with the FIP results, and I'll mention it to him then, see what he thinks about more antibiotics. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[no subject]
Ok, guys. I just got off the phone with Whitey's vet.? Good news and what could potentially be really bad news.?? Good news first. First of all, his Thyroid is normal, which Dr. Dolen says defies logic.? He wants to retest in a few weeks.?? All his other major organ functions were normal...kidneys, liver, thyroid, everything was good. His WBC were elevated (of course, due probably to the severe ear infection).? He is chronically anemic (RBC was 25ish). The thing that concerned Dr. Dolen the most was his elevated Globulin and Albumin levels.? His globulin was 8.4, when he says 3ish is the normal range,?so he said that indicated a chronic severe infection.? He's getting the lab to run?an ?FIP titer on the blood sample they have from the other tests, so we'll know something about that in about a week.? He says either the ear infection was so horribly bad that its a miracle he's still alive (to have caused such an elevated globulin level) or he has FIP.? I'm certainly hoping its the ear infection, something we can work with.? Any of you guys have experience with FIP?? I understand its deadly, usually within weeks of symptoms, but I was wondering about the human aspect of it..what have YOU guys? experienced with it? He recommended high protein kitten food for him right now.? He said the more protein the better...canned tuna, chicken, whatever has the most protein.? I'm going to go by a local natural pet food store on my way home from work that carries premium kitten foods.? Also interested if any of you know what the absolute highest nutritional content wet food would be?? I'm thinking Innova kitten food in a can, maybe wellness kitten food?? Anyway, more updates when I get them. Michael Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Day 3
Ok, guys, here's the update for the day. First of all, I am even more convinced now, and I stand by my decision to not contact his previous owners. I just can't imagine anything good coming out of it.? This boy is too special to have to go back to that mess, and I'm afraid if I did let him go or call them,they'd snatch him up and stick him in a cage or something, and I'm just not willing to risk that.? He would come to my house for days at a time anyway, and they never once looked for him, and they still haven't since he disappeared two days ago. Because I know for a fact he hasn't been home because he's been in my sunroom.? This is a unique situation in that I KNOW he didn't just get away from his owners and get in this shape.? I've seen him for the last two years in the neighborhood, and the last six months he's been coming to my house every morning and every night.? This was just blatant neglect.? My heart is too heavy to even think of letting him get back in that shape again.? I really do have such feelings for these guys.? Someone has to be a voice for them.? I used to feel bad about volunteering and putting so much energy into animals when there are so many horrible conditions and diseases afflicting our fellow human beings, but the last few days I've come to an important realization, and that is someone has to look out for our companions, too!? There are lots of people who work on human charities and advocate for research and development (and I don't think you'll ever see a huge difference in modern disease treatment/management until you see a fundamental shift in Washington and the drug companies and HMOs lose significant control over research and development, but I digress, that's another topic altogther.)? But animals, who will be their voice?? Someone needs to fight for them, and my extreme sensitivity makes me suitable for that.? I swear, I can't even bear the thought of killing a mouse.? I have no-kill traps.? This may sound corny, but I even avoid squishing bugs if I can.? I'll generally scoop them up and take them outside.? I just believe in the inherent sanctity of life...all life, regardless of its form, is precious, and should be preserved. As for King?Blanco the?Mighty Whitey (lol, I can't decide!? Jeff still says he is a she and her name is Whitey!) and his condition, he's continuing to do well.? He pooped last night.? I was so excited. :) His Baytril dose is half of a 22.7mg tablet daily for 14 days.? No diarrhea or other problems yet, but I'll keep an eye out for sure, and I'll look into the probiotics.? His eyes/pupils are fine, I'm keeping a close watch on him for the dilation concerns mentioned.? His balance seems to be getting a little better, but he still has a long way to go.? Jeff set up his tent in the sunroom last night, and put a heating pad in it.? He's quite cozy.? He's been on it all night and day.? I have the webcam set up where I can keep an eye on him from work.? I'm gonna include a link to it and post instructions at the bottom for anyone who's interested :)? We're expecting the lab results in tomorrow.? I'll be sure to let you all know as soon as I hear about them. Oh, and by the way, I misunderstood Jeff.? Dr. Dolen has not actually diagnosed Hyperthyroidism, he just said it was likely with the thyroid tumor. We should know about that by Friday.? We'll also know more about the heart murmur. The vet didn't do any vaccinations because he wanted to wait on the bloodwork (probably to check for heart disease, as someone here mentioned.)? Anyway, here's the webcam and instructions if anyone wants to peek at Whitey.? Look in the tent on the right side of the screen, that white dot inside is my boy :)? Like I said, it really is a storage room right now, so please look over and excuse the mess :(? I'm gonna work on getting it cleaned up this weekend I hope. Camera Internet address: ? http://camera.115cr339.ourlinksys.com ? ? Web Browser - You can View Video using Internet Explorer 5.5 or higher.? When you click View Video, an ActiveXcomponent (OCX file) will need to be downloaded and installed on your PC. You will be prompted to install this OCX file if this file is not present in your system.?? You'll see one of those yellow bars across the top of the window, right below the address bar (or tab bar if you're on?internet Explorer?7?that says Click here to Install ActiveX Control? You'll need to click on it, and then when the other window pops up that?asks about installing it, click on the Install button. ? Note: The Wireless-B Internet Video Camera supports a maximum of 4 users simultaneously.?I don't think that will ever be a problem, but if several of you get this email at once and it doesn't load, you'll know just try again in a few minutes.? I'm gonna close my connection to free it up til I get home. Thanks as always for listening to my rambling.? Oh, and for the record, a website is
Whitey's Update
Ok, guys, here's an updated on Whitey (Ugh, I hate thatname, but Jeff won't let me change it now), 24 hours into the intervention ;) I've done a lot of thinking, and soul searching.? And I've decided I'm not gonna put him back outside, or make any effort to contact his owners.? I've decided they don't deserve animals, and I even seriously considered reporting them to the humane society, but figured I'd best just get him better and leave it alone as long as they don't make a fuss over it.? He still has a long road to recovery, but once we get him better, I'm either gonna keep him in the sunroom (and figure out a way to make an outside area for him, or hopefully find him a good home.? Jeff is trying to convince his mother to take him.? Its a very quiet house with no other animals, and I know he'd be taken good care of there, and Jeff would see him often.? We don't know if she'll say yes, but right now we're just focused on getting him healed.? I even offered to provide his food and litter to sweeten the deal :) Anyway, I spoke with the vet and Jeff yesterday when I got home and got a bit more details.? Apparently not only does he have hyperthyroidism, a benign tumor on his thyroid, severe gingivitis, teeth needing pulled, severe ear infection, and a grade 3 heart murmur, but he also has mouth ulcers. :(? The vet said he's surprised the fella can even eat.? But let me tell you, that boy eats :)? He's been eating Sheba and drinking catmilk as fast as I can give it to him, several times a day.? He's just acting completely at home in the sunroom!? He's not once yeowled or tried to get out.? He's found his spot out there, and he's been quite content!? I've been paying closer attention to the fella, and I do believe he's hard of hearing. I don't think he's completely deaf, but I do believe he has hearing problems.? For starters, Jeff was vacuuming the indoor/outdoor carpet out there, and he just laid there and slept.? You can open the door and call him in a low voice and he doesn't respond, but if you yell, he looks up.? He's also using the litterbox.? Hallelujah!? lol? I was afraid he'd never figure it out after being outside so long.? Jeff set up a webcam out there so we can keep an eye on him while we're in the house :)? (I'll send you guys a link if Jeff ever figures out how to connect it to the internet and not just our personal wireless network.) I think cleaning out his ears as helped some with the imbalancing.? He's still wobbly, but seems much better than he was!? I swear, he just amazes me.? I can't imagine what a rough life this little guy must have had up to this point...and for him to be so calm, and loving, after living through such hell, it just says he's a very special boy. A couple of questions now 1. The vet put him on Baytril for the infection/mouth ulcers.? I know you guys are familiar with itwhat are the side effects, what do I need to look for?? Is that the broad spectrum antibiotic that kills the good intestinal bacteria as well?? do I need to get some yogurt and/or probiotics? :)? 2. How long should he go before I get concerned about the litterbox use?? He's peed in it, but so far hasn't had a bowel movement.? He's not been out there even 24 hours yet, so I'm not too terribly concerned, but how long do you guys think I should wait before I start to worry? Michael Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Whitey
View full size ??? View full size For those of you without the history, Whitey came to me about six months ago relatively permanently.? She showed up and just sort of stayed.? When she came, she was boney (You could feel its ribs) and her long white fur was literally in huge mats all over her body. After months of feeding and brushing, I got her fur cleaned up and she put on a few pounds.? Last night I went? to feed her and found her so disoriented she couldn't even stand up, so Jeff took her to the vet this morning, and this is where the story picks up... Ok, guys.? Jeff just got back from the vet with Whitey.? Here's what we learned. (Pictures Attached.) ? She is a He? LOL ? He is about 10-12 years old. ? He has not been neutered. :( ? He has a severe inner-ear infection. ? He has a grade 3 heart murmur ? He has advanced/severe gingivitis.? Needs several teeth pulled. ? FeLV/FIV NEGATIVE. (Thank God for something!) ? He also has hyperthyroidism.? They found a benign tumor on his thyroid. ? We're starting with oral antibiotics to get the ear infection cleaned up.? They drew blood for a thyroid and kidney check, as well as a fecal sample.??? Doc wants to get the ear infection cleared up before we start with thyroid medicine and such to make sure its not the infection causing all those other problems.??? He also wanted to wait on vaccines until we get everything else cleared up.? They cleaned his ears and clipped his nails today.? He's going back for vaccines/teeth pulling when we get the infection cleared up. Now here's the dilemma.? First of all, I'm starting to feel bad about taking someone else's cat.? He just wandered to the house and sorta stayed, but he does go home from time to time for a few hours, but is always at teh house at night and in the morning for food.? I *think* I know who he belongs to, but I'm not certain.? The vet says he must stay indoors (at least for now) due to the severe infection and his imbalance, otherwise they said he couldn't run from cats/dogs or cars, he's very much at risk right now, so he's going in my Sun Room, which I suppose will become the kitty suite.? What do you guys? think?? I don't think I should feel bad for taking him, for the simple fact that if someone is so irresponsible a pet owner that they'd let him get in that shape, do they really care or deserve to own an animal?? I really do think its in HIS best interest that he stays with me, but again, he doesn't technically belong to me, so its a dilemma.? What do you guys think?? Another issue I'm having is his FeLV negative status.?? With two positives in the house, what do I do?? For now he's going to be isolated in the sunroom where he's safe, but if I keep him long term, should I let him back outdoors? I just don't know what to do.? I really don't feel good about mixing him with the positives and exposing him to FeLV.? My other negative had already been exposed before I knew.? But this is a totally different situation.? I could keep him isolated til he's better, then let him back out, that's one option. Another option is mixing :(? I really can't see leaving him in the sunroom the rest of his life, that just wouldn't be fair.? I'd appreciate input/opinions, guys. Michael Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: Question about outdoor cat
I'd have to agree with the take her camp on this one. I have this adorable girl that wandered to my house after I moved in. I call her Whitey. :) She's a gorgeous domestic longhair, with one blue eye and one brown. She's adorable, and sort of just moved in when I did and hasn't left. All the neighborhood cats wander through my yard from time to time, and generally eat there once or twice a week, but Whitey has adopted us. She was horribly skinny and dirty when she came to the house...her long hair was matted all over her little body. I've been slowly but surely brushing and loving her, and feeding her decent food. Her coat is just about slicked up. Almost all the mats are out of her fur, except her tail, and that has been tough! But anyway, I've gotten quite attached to her. I keep her treated with frontline, and fed. She greets me every morning when I leave for work and every night when I get home, so I can definately relate to your situation, Caroline. I think this winter I am going to buy her one of those electric heating pads for outdoor pets, and put it in a nice secure tent/box for her to keep warm. I know for sure if I ever move, Whitey is going with me. -Original Message- From: Christiane Biagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 3:31 pm Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat TAKE HER! I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought him inside. I did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and the creeps whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no shelter. It took a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up on some boxes. Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there covered all but two sides with a sheet. Then I started leaving the door to the kennel open and putting his food on the floor just below. Then I brought him to the bathroom around the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the litter box to. He started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the room or at night when he thought I was asleep. But sure enough, one day he went out while I was in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he’d been eying! Sure enough, that did it. Once he found the creature comforts there was no turning back! He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out—sort of looks at the other guys like they’re nuts for wanting to go out! He is the absolutely most affectionate cat I’ve ever had. BUT, the one thing I still can’t do is actually pick him up. He’ll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I try to sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up. Vet visits crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers! I say take her; keep her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and watch her become a big mush! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat This is my final question I promise. But it's been looming over my head for a long time now and it's really distressing me. I know I have told you all that my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically belong to a lady a few houses up from me. But all the neighbors kind of look after them and some feed/keep water out. The lady who brought them to the street rescued them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of them- the sister had not spayed/neutered. She got connected with one of the local agencies and had them all fixed for a discount (she is low income). She already has five indoor cats so these cats became outdoor cats. Almost all of them have clipped ears (except one) that show they have been fixed. Some of them started out as indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like colony cats better so they pretty much stay out year round. She has a front porch where she has boxes set up for them in the winter, etc. They are all male, except for one. I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street over a year ago because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.? I finally got the whole story. There is one, a little girl who I call, Lil Girl who pretty much has re-transplanted herself to my property. I treated her for tapeworms and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer. I was worried about her being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding her quality food to beef her up, even after determining her sort-of home situation. But now she is a permanent resident pretty much at my front door. She is there every morning waiting for me and in the evening. It so sad because I do not own my house and my landlord needs his house back and I am moving the weekend after next. I don't know what
Re: Question about outdoor cat
By the way, I forgot to mention she's solid white...hence the name Whitey, which I jokingly called her because I never expected her to move in. lol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Question about outdoor cat I'd have to agree with the take her camp on this one. I have this adorable girl that wandered to my house after I moved in. I call her Whitey. :) She's a gorgeous domestic longhair, with one blue eye and one brown. She's adorable, and sort of just moved in when I did and hasn't left. All the neighborhood cats wander through my yard from time to time, and generally eat there once or twice a week, but Whitey has adopted us. She was horribly skinny and dirty when she came to the house...her long hair was matted all over her little body. I've been slowly but surely brushing and loving her, and feeding her decent food. Her coat is just about slicked up. Almost all the mats are out of her fur, except her tail, and that has been tough! But anyway, I've gotten quite attached to her. I keep her treated with frontline, and fed. She greets me every morning when I leave for work and every night when I get home, so I can definately relate to your situation, Caroline. I think this winter I am going to buy her one of those electric heating pads for outdoor pets, and put it in a nice secure tent/box for her to keep warm. I know for sure if I ever move, Whitey is going with me. -Original Message- From: Christiane Biagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 3:31 pm Subject: RE: Question about outdoor cat TAKE HER! I was feeding my Romeo for 2 years before I brought him inside. I did so only because the temperature was going to below zero and the creeps whose house he lived under boarded up his access so he had no shelter. It took a few weeks of him in a large kennel in my bedroom propped up on some boxes. Initially, I put his box and his food dish in there covered all but two sides with a sheet. Then I started leaving the door to the kennel open and putting his food on the floor just below. Then I brought him to the bathroom around the corner in the kennel to show him where I was moving the litter box to. He started eating/going to the box only when nobody was in the room or at night when he thought I was asleep. But sure enough, one day he went out while I was in the room on my computer and jumped on the bed he’d been eying! Sure enough, that did it. Once he found the creature comforts there was no turning back! He rarely sits at the window or tries to go out—sort of looks at the other guys like they’re nuts for wanting to go out! He is the absolutely most affectionate cat I’ve ever had. BUT, the one thing I still can’t do is actually pick him up. He’ll sit on my lap (or on my chest when I try to sleep!) but squirms out real fast if I try to pick him up. Vet visits crating are real tough so I have to keep that to an absolute miminum Sooo, this little one has already staked you out as hers! I say take her; keep her in a big wire cage with some increasing freedoms and watch her become a big mush! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:17 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Question about outdoor cat This is my final question I promise. But it's been looming over my head for a long time now and it's really distressing me. I know I have told you all that my street has neighborhood 24/7 outdoor cats that technically belong to a lady a few houses up from me. But all the neighbors kind of look after them and some feed/keep water out. The lady who brought them to the street rescued them from her sister- whom she said wasn't taking care of them- the sister had not spayed/neutered. She got connected with one of the local agencies and had them all fixed for a discount (she is low income). She already has five indoor cats so these cats became outdoor cats. Almost all of them have clipped ears (except one) that show they have been fixed. Some of them started out as indoor/outdoor and then I guess found they liked being like colony cats better so they pretty much stay out year round. She has a front porch where she has boxes set up for them in the winter, etc. They are all male, except for one. I started feeding them too myself when I moved to the street over a year ago because I didn't know the situation- were they homeless, etc.? I finally got the whole story. There is one, a little girl who I call, Lil Girl who pretty much has re-transplanted herself to my property. I treated her for tapeworms and I have been giving her Advantage thru the summer. I was worried about her being so small, even tho she's about 5 yo, so I kept feeding her quality food to beef her up, even after
Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin
I just wanted to clarify, though its really not important, that Tennessee does have a veterinary school at a land grant university. The University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, which is a Land-Grand University. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin
V ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Here is the link/vet school in austin
Vanderbilt is a private school. The system in TN is sort of unique, I believe. We have the University of Tennessee system, which governs the UT schools: Knoxville, Chattanooga, Martin. We also have the Tennessee Board of Regents system that governs Tennessee State University (our other land grant school-Memphis I think), Austin Peay State University (middle TN-Clarksville), Middle Tennessee State University (Murfreesboro), East Tennessee State University (NE TN, Johnson City), and Tennessee Technological University (Middle TN- Crossville). ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: list matters
And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not. I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation. -Original Message- From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM Subject: list matters I think it's pretty out in the open now. Susan and Glenda tend to judge others on the list. This is OUR list. We can ignore and correct misinformation when it comes from anyone. This has always been THE most supportive and informative list I have ever been on. Let's not lose the list due to a few people. tonya Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything you do is perfect!!?? Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list. However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her. When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake. period. You do not begin to mix them. That is basic shelter 101. And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all. However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: list matters
Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any less important to say. You all judge some on this list for doing the exact same thing you are. If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a terrible loss. I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is not the easy thing to say. She had every right to say what she did as everyone else did to sling childish insults back. One line snips are the trademark of a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject. Yes, everyone is here to provide information and support. Yes, everyone has differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it. If you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this argument, not just one. Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group and not an individual. I believe we've all done that at one time or another. And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list. If any of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable viruses is not a good situation, regardless of how well the intentions are. Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how good intentions go. Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing. I just read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw. Look, as I have stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put in tough places with tough decisions to make. If you're forced to declaw, or if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision. Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a SHELTER, a non-profit organization dedicated to rescuing and helping otherwise helpless animals, making these choices across the board. There's a big difference there and in an individual owner having to make tough decisions. It sounds like (and I'm just stating fact here, not passing judgement on the open forum) that the shelter in question declaws across the board (with the exeption of FeLV/FIV+) every time a cat comes in the shelter. Same for mixing. They mix every positive cat that comes through, regardless of which diagnosis they have. That was the concern. Not individual choices that have to be made. Diane R. was in a tough spot, and had to make a tough decision. I don't know that I would have made a different one if I were in her place. -Original Message- From: Kat To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 10:12 AM Subject: Re: list matters Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot by throwing flames! And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies that have been going on.Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or
Re: OT: Kitten Question
In a message dated 9/26/2007 6:26:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you are prescribing medicine without a license. Wow. It just doesn't end, does it? For the record, twelvehousecats, Susan has left the list, so that's one less jab she'll have to deal with, due in large part I'm sure to statements like that. This will likely be my last post to this group. I find the attitudes and behavior of the senior members of this list to be discouraging, at best. Toe amputation is cruelty to animals, period, and virtually every major animal-rights group (including Siamese Rescue, ASPCA and PETA) oppose it. I will, for those of you that requested scientific information, include one last post before I bow out of this group. See it at the bottom of the email, if you're really concerned/interested. You can sugar coat it, and ignore the facts if it makes you feel better about yourself, but the bottom line is its cruel, period. For anyone who's interested, I have started another group on Yahoo. The URL is here: _http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia_ (http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia) Let me preface that by saying I am not advocating or asking anyone to leave this list. I am not saying the new group is a replacement for this group, or that its any better than this group. I am simply providing an alternative list if anyone is interested in joining. I'm sure some of you might be interested in being on both lists. For me, this was just too much. It was uncalled for. Susan was one of the first people to respond to my email when I originally joined this group scared out of my mind and not knowing what to do, so yeah, I guess I took the attacks on her a bit personally, and perhaps I shouldn't have, but whats done is done, and I don't think it can be undone at this point. The ground rules for the new group is relatively simple, and that is no one's opinion will be stifled or silenced, and the group will be moderated. Also, no one will be judged on the other list for anything that was said or done here, so long as its not brought up there. As disgusted and disappointed as I am in everything that has transpired here, I do wish all the cats (and people) on this list the best. Regards, Michael Roberts ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Article, with Citations.
I forgot to include the article in my previous email. The link is here, the full text follows: _PETA Media Center Factsheets_ (http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=42) Declawing Cats: Manicure or Mutilation? Cats’ claws and the bones and cartilage that hold them in place allow cats to balance properly, climb, and defend themselves, among other functions. Declawing, which removes these claws, bones, and cartilage, is a painful and permanently crippling procedure that should never be performed. There are effective and humane alternatives to declawing that can prevent cats from inflicting damage with their claws. Why Do Cats Claw Objects? Cats claw to have fun and exercise, to maintain the condition of their nails, and to mark their territory—visually and with scent. They stretch by digging their claws in and pulling against their own claw-hold. Cats’ natural instinct to scratch serves both their physical and psychological needs. Before domestication, cats satisfied these needs by clawing tree trunks. Today, domesticated cats can be guided to satisfy their desire to claw without damaging valuable property. Understanding Declawing Declawing involves 10 separate, painful amputations. It is a serious surgery, not just a manicure. Declawing a cat involves general anesthesia and amputation of the last joint of each toe, including the bones, not just the nail.(1) The following are possible complications of this surgery: • Adverse reaction to anesthetic • Gangrene, which can lead to limb amputation • Hemorrhaging • Permanent nerve damage • Persistent pain • Reluctance to walk • Scar tissue formation • Sequestrum (bone chips), requiring additional surgery(2) • Skin disorders After surgery, the nails may grow back inside the paw, causing pain but remaining invisible to observers. Declawing results in a gradual weakening of leg, shoulder, and back muscles, and because of impaired balance caused by the procedure, declawed cats have to relearn to walk, much as a person would after losing his or her toes. Lasting Difficulties Without claws, even house-trained cats may urinate and defecate outside the litterbox in an attempt to mark their territory. Declawed cats may be morose, reclusive, and withdrawn or irritable, aggressive, and unpredictable. Many people think that declawed cats are safer around babies, but in fact, the lack of claws, a cat’s first line of defense, makes many cats feel so insecure that they tend to bite more often as a means of self-protection.(3) A study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (JAVMA) reported that of those observed, 33 percent of declawed cats developed at least one behavioral problem and 80 percent had more than one medical complication.(4) Declawed cats are also more likely to be surrendered to shelters.(5) Banned by Countries and Cities and Condemned by Vets Nearly two dozen countries—including England, Australia, and Japan—ban or severely restrict declawing surgeries.(6) Catalonia, Spain, prohibits declawing under its Law of Animal Protection.(7) A declawing ban was passed in West Hollywood, California, where one City Council official explained, “As guardians of animals, we have a relationship of respect, that the animal not be amputated or subjected to techniques that create harm.”(8) Following a lawsuit against the city filed by the California Veterinary Medical Association—which argued that West Hollywood had infringed on veterinarians’ professional rights— a court struck down the ordinance. Nonetheless, on the heels of that precedent-setting legislation, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors adopted a resolution “condemning” declawing and urging veterinarians to drop the procedure.(9) Many vets refuse to perform the surgery. Dr. Jennifer Conrad wrote in JAVMA that “[r]outine declawing (unlike sterilization) is never performed for the sake of the animal” and that as a veterinarian, she has “an obligation to do what is best for the animals and not what is most convenient for their owners. ”(10) Dr. Melinda Merck does not perform declawing surgeries at her Georgia clinic, saying the process “is an amputation … and it’s awful.”(11) The Cat Practice in New York City tells its clients, “If you love your cat … don’t declaw!”(12) Compassionate Alternatives With a little effort and patience, you can protect your furnishings and preserve your cat’s claws at the same time. The following hints will help: • Trim your cat’s nails regularly. When the cat is relaxed and unafraid, gently press on the toes until the claws extend. Use a pair of nail clippers and cut only the tip of the nail, taking care not to damage the vein or “quick.” The nail hook is what tears upholstery, so removing it virtually eliminates damage. • Buy or build two or more
Recommendations from UTCVM
Hey all, ? As promised, below is the written recommendations from UTCVM on Poppy and Grizzabella.? Thoughts? __ ? Subject: Current FeLV recommendations Mr. Roberts, I apologize again for the delay.? Here are discharge instructions for the girls.? Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.? The format is a little skewed, but should still be readable. Thank you! emily ? TITLE: DISCHARGE INSTRUCTIONS DATE OF NOTE: SEP 22, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:49 ENTRY DATE: SEP 22, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:50:08 AUTHOR: JAMES,TERI-LEE EXP COSIGNER: PURVIS,EMILY D URGENCY: STATUS: UNCOSIGNED (19-27-27) GRIZZABELLA ? DR. TODD DOLEN CREEKSIDE ANIMAL HOSPITAL 1209 HIGHWAY 68 SWEETWATER, TN 37874 FS 2002 SEL/PNT --- DATE OF ADMISSION: SEP 11, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:45 DATE OF DISCHARGE: SEP 11, 2007 CLINICIAN(S): Emily Purvis DVM STUDENT: Teri-Lee James, Senior Student ? === Diagnosis - Feline Leukemia Virus, positive ELISA adn IFA Thank you for bringing Poppie and Grizzabella to UTCVM! Poppie and Grizzabella were referred to UTCVM because they tested positive for FeLV at your referring veterinarian's office. On physical exam both Poppie and Grizzabella appeared to be in good health and all of their physical parameters were within normal limits. We took a blood sample from both cats and submitted them for an ELISA and an IFA test for FeLV. The ELISA test was initially positive at Dr. Dolen's office, but sometimes that can be false, so we retested. The ELISA tests for viral antigens circulating freely in the cats' bloodstream. The IFA test detects antigen present on infected blood cells and indicates bone marrow infection. Both Poppie and Grizzabella tested positive on both tests, indicating that the virus has infected their bone marrow. Most cats that test positive on the IFA test remain persistently infected for life. FeLV is transmitted from cat to cat via the oronasal route and by bite wounds. The virus replicates in lymphoid tissue and travels via infected cells to the spleen, thymus and to lymph nodes throughout the body as well as to the salivary glands. Eventually the bone marrow becomes infected, producing infected white blood cells and platelets. Many cats remain asymptomatic throughout life. Weight loss is the most common clinical sign, followed by fever, dehydration, rhinitis (nose infections), diarrhea, conjunctivitis (redness of the eyes) and oral infection. Infected cats may also develop bone marrow disorders, such as decreased red or white blood cell lines. FeLV infected cats also are at a higher risk developing lymphoma (cancer) and secondary infections due to immune suppression. Treatment for FeLV may include immune-modulating and antiviral medications. However, these treatments have not been shown to be particularly effective in many cases, particularly if cats are not showing clinical signs associated with the disease. CARE REQUIRED: At this time we recommend that Poppie and Grizzabella have a complete blood count, blood chemistry with electrolytes, and urinalysis performed as a baseline evaluation. This can be done at your referring veterinarian's office or at UTCVM. Depending on the results of these tests additional diagnostic work may be indicated, including urine culture, thoracic and abdominal radiographs and/or abdominal ultrasound. Poppie and Grizzabella should continue to have annual physicals and semi-annual labwork performed. Often times, changes on the labwork precede actual illness, so frequent monitoring can sometimes catch a problem early. If they have any abnormalities in their bloodwork or other diagnostic tests now or at some time in the future it may be appropriate to start one of the immune modulating medications that is available. Thank you again for entrusting us with the care of your beloved pets. If you have any further questions of concerns please do not hesitate to call. Emily?Purvis DVM University?of?Tennessee Veterinary?Teaching?Hospital Small?Animal?Intern Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...
Not that my opinion matters, but I'd personally have a difficult time accepting someone's (a veterinarian that declaws) word on something who stands to gain (financially) from declawing cats. ? If you want a case study, take a look: http://www.pawproject.com/html/cases.asp?SortOrder=5 ? The above is from the same website.? Its a scientific article from the JAVMA.? I'm sure if you look up the articles in the actual publicans you'll find the citations you wanted to see. ? I think the source seems pretty reliable.? At least it does from my perspective.? Then again, maybe we see what we want to see a lot of the time. ? It just breaks my heart to see or hear of cats being declawed.? I'll have to agree with those who think its a horrible practice that should be illegal.? Dog and cockfighting is illegal, all the same.? Does the pain a dog feels from dogbites hurt any less than the pain a cat feels from having its toes amputated? -Original Message- From: Kelley Saveika To: Sent: Mon, Sep 24 4:24 PM Subject: Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal... I'm not really sure I buy the theory that declawed cats are more likely to have behavioral problems. I've seen a lot of cats, both clawed and declawed, and behavioral problems seem to be about the same in both groups. We currently have a 12.5 year old declawed cat who is probably the sweetest cat ever. Similarly we have fully clawed cats who have had terrible behavioral problems. It just seems to be pretty random to me.Nationally, about 25% of cats are declawed. I'd be interested to see the studies that purport that they are turned in to shelters in disproportionate numbers. If this is the case, it doesn't seem to be the case locally. Also if they are turned in to shelters in disproportionate numbers, I'd like to know if the clawed cats are just turned loose somewhere, as opposed to being turned in to a shelter.I did speak to my vet about it and he says there is no hard evidence of any correlation between behavior and status of claws. Lots of people I really like have declawed cats, including my vet's receptionist. I continue to believe that cats are better off declawed than dead, and if you have to make the correlation YES I would rather have the tips of my fingers chopped off than be killed.-- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/georgeI GoodSearch for Rescuties.Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!
The phrase comes to mind, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. :( I have no doubt whoever is running this shelter has the best of intentions. One of my girls, the one I think was the first positive, came from just such a shelter (Angel Wings in Kingston, TN). I know this lady had only the best of intentions in her heart, and I know she loved the kitties she tried to provide care for. But I also know she didn't know how to say No. And a lot of innocent kitties suffered as a result. It was a heartbreaking situation altogether :( Look, I have to know every day when to say No. My heart aches for some poor kitties I see at local shelters and adoption agencies, but I know I am not capable of caring for more than the three I have, and I know that to bring healthy, negative cats into a situation where they're at high risk of contracting FeLV is irresponsible. I've replaced my sofa twice now due to kitty claws (FINALLY got them all trained. It IS possible.) but I'd never dream of declawing, and I think most people are horrified here at the thought of a shelter using declawing as a standard policy. Its unimaginable. Even the lady I mentioned above gave me a very long lecture about declawing and made me sign contracts that I wouldn't do it. Siamese Rescue done the same thing when I adopted my other two. I think everyone here is horrified that, as you pointed out, she can't say no. We all must recognize our limits. I am not saying you, or the woman who runs this shelter, are bad people, but even the best of intentions can be devastating (as I know personally.) Hoarders love the cats they have, they just don't know when to say no. Same goes for this situation, I think. Our hearts just ache that as horrible as FIV and FeLV is, we have to live with the knowledge that this shelter is mixing them, and mutilating their little paws in the process. Its just painful. Its not personal attacks on you, or to say that you don't have the best of intentions in your heart. Reminds me of a story I heard on NPR on my way home, talking about zero gravity effects on bacteria. They were talking about infecting mice with salmonella to see how long it would take them to die. It was just painful to listen to. :( Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Ok, I give up.
As a matter of fact, its funny you should send that email. I JUST finished putting them all on Flickr: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/) I have many many more, actually, and I'll probably work on adding some of them slowly. Flickr only allows you 100mb a month :) I'll let you all know when I update them. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: OT litter box issue
I also use a Drinkwell. I've had it for a year now (with three cats) and never had a problem out of it. Personally, I'd highly recommend it. There's also a new Drinkwell Platinum on the market, not sure if there's any real difference or not. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Ok, I give up.
The girls got a new toy tonight, and I took some pictures. I was trying to send to you guys, but the messages keep getting caught up. Do we have a moderator for the group to approve them, or does anyone have another suggestion as to how I can send them? Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Update
Got this message from the vet student this morning: Michael, I just wanted to let you know that both Poppie and Grizzabella came back positive for feline leukemia on the snap test. I realize this is not a big surprise, but it is always good to double check. We will still have to wait for the results of the IFA, which will hopefully come back early next week. Dr. Purvis and I will be in touch! Teri-Lee James senior student = ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Collecting a stool sample?
Hey guys, I just got home a few minutes ago and Jeff had been holding Grizzabella earlier. Apparently there was some blood on his shirt where he was holding her. I'm not sure if its rectal or vaginal bleeding, but I'm sure when I take her to the vet they're going to want samples, so do you guys have any recommendations as to how I can collect a stool and/or urine sample? I've never attempted it, and I wouldn't even know where to start. Geez! It seems like its already started. :/ Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Collecting a stool sample?
I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out the free of litter part. With three cats, its tough to know who's used the litter box. I could keep it scooped and watch for her, I suppose, but will a sample I just scoop out be ok? I mean, after she's covered it up, do I just scoop it out and take it? :/ I'm beginning to think the bleeding is from her urinary tract, but I can't be sure. I say this because when I went in the laundry room and examined the litterbox area, I found a tiny drop of clear liquid (about the size of half a pea) with what looked like traces of blood in it. (I didn't have enough sense to grab a syringe and collect it to take with me :( ) I guess I'm going to call my vet, or decide if I want to start using another vet, and figure out what to do. Thanks for the pointers guys! Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Update
Hey guys. Not sure what happened to my message...said something about being held for moderator approval. Anyway, I'm resending. Hey guys. I just got back from UT CVM with Poppy and Bella, and I promised an update. As for their health, they're doing fine really, no symptoms still, eating well, taking the missing link and lysine supplements with no problems. The entire visit at UT took about 2.5 hours, but a lot of that was just waiting. First, a fourth year student called us back and done a physical exam and initial consultation. She then sent us back to the waiting room and took the info back to the clinician and an intern. About 20 minutes later she comes back and gets me and girls, and the intern is waiting for us in the exam room. They called my local vet, who apparently had NOT done an IFA test, which kinda upsets me. I've really tried to like that vet for the simple fact that they have emergency service available and they're a block from my house, but it looks like I'm going to have to start looking for another local vet. Anyway, an IFA had not been done, so they took the girls to the back and drew blood for the IFA. They also asked if I wanted a CBC, Chem Panel, Urinalysis and Hepatic Function panels done, which would have costed another $300 :( The vet was very understanding, and said she honestly could go either way, that it was my choice, but it might be pointless to draw the blood now and then have to do it again if they get sick, so we decided to wait on the bloodwork and do another SNAP test (which she will call or email the results from those to me today) and the IFA will be back next week. Here's to hoping the *real* IFA is negative. They were all honest at the hospital. The fourth year student told me this was her first case of Feline Leukemia, and the Intern said they didn't see very many of them at the hospital, but they're going to do research on current treatments and get back with both me and my local vet regarding a treatment plan. She said FeLV is manageable, and sometimes cats live many years with it. She seemed very optimistic, which made me feel a little better. Not sure how I feel about their utter lack of experience with FeLV, but I can't expect anyone to be perfect. We're going to wait on the lab results to get a real positive and go from there. She said they may have us come back if the tests are positive to do the bloodwork and try to type/stage the disease. She said for now the best thing to do is continue doing what I am since they appear healthy and are symptomatic. She recommended waiting on the antivirals until they're symptomatic, but again said this was a matter of personal preference. I'm waiting on the recommendations they're supposed to email me now, so we'll see how it goes from there. Overall, I'm having mixed feelings about the visit. I'm certainly glad I took them, and I'd probably do it again, I guess I was just hoping for a plan today.The total bill was $316 for the exam, research, and SNAP/IFA tests for both cats. I must say, the intern, Dr. Emily Purvis, was very compassionate. As a matter of fact, she paged the front and came back up there before I left and saved me $80. She said the research she was going to do would be the same for both cats, so she didn't feel comfortable charging me twice (which saved me $80. A research visit costs $115, versus $35 for a regular visit). I appreciated her concern. The cost broke down like this: Research visit $115 Office visit $35 SNAP/IFAx2 $166 I'll be sure to let you all know what they say when they email their treatment plans/recommendations next week. Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Update
Wendy, I'm not really sure WHAT they done at the local vet. :/ I was rather confused myself today when they told me Creekside said they hadn't done an IFA. :/ All the invoice/receipt says is Feline Leukemia/ FIV Combo TEST. I just assumed that when we asked them to send her blood off and test her again that they'd do an IFA, but apparently they done another STRAP/ELISA test. I really don't understand how they sent that off, unless what they actually done was drew the blood and stored it at their office until the STRAP test kits came in the next day, which I'm thinking is looking more and more like the most likely possibility. As for Penny, she has not been retested yet. I'll be getting them to do an IFA on her next appointment (in six months). And I guess I'll just start looking for a new local vet now. Ugh. I'll update you guys when I have more info! Michael ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: Advantage/FrontLine
Thanks for all the info guys!? One more question...if I buy the largest dose to treat? 4 cats, how long will the other four doses in the tube last after its been opened? Would it be wasted, or could I draw it into a syringe or something and keep it until their next dose is due?? Not sure whether to buy a smaller amount that will dose four times, or get the large one and save it. ? Michael -Original Message- From: gary To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, Sep 4 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Advantage/FrontLine Both Advantage and Frontline Plus for dogs are the same ingredients at the same strength as they are for cats.? You just buy the ones for the largest dogs and put it into a very small container and use a small eyedropper or plastic syringe (without needle and use the regular amount for a cat dose.? For Frontline Plus a cat dose is .5 mg or .5 cc.?so a vial for the largest dog does 8 cats. ?Also, if you want to do this one a regular basis, buy it online from Austrailia and it is much cheaper. ? Gary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 11:12 PM Subject: Advantage/FrontLine Hey guys, ? Quick question...I've heard a couple of you on here mention you use the advantage or frontline for dogs on your cats to save money, can someone fill me in on how you do this?? I've noticed one of my positive kitties scratching the last couple of days, so I assume she's picked up some fleas somewhere.? I was going to treat all three of them, plus 2 or 3 of my neighbor's outside cats (since they pretty much live at my house!) but I can't hardly afford to pay $13 a pop times six.? Thanks for the info. Michael Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Advantage/FrontLine
Hey guys, Quick question...I've heard a couple of you on here mention you use the advantage or frontline for dogs on your cats to save money, can someone fill me in on how you do this? I've noticed one of my positive kitties scratching the last couple of days, so I assume she's picked up some fleas somewhere. I was going to treat all three of them, plus 2 or 3 of my neighbor's outside cats (since they pretty much live at my house!) but I can't hardly afford to pay $13 a pop times six. Thanks for the info. PS, I still have the appointment at the UT veterinary school on the 11th for the girls. In the meantime, they're doing well with the Missing Link and Lysine, all three healthy and still happy. I also got the Pet Temp thermometer and have established all their baseline temps so I can keep periodic checks. I'll keep you guys updated! Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Megan, be careful...
Hey guys. I can't possibly imagine what could cost $2000 other than a very extensive hospitalization. Their prices and fees for labs and diagnostic tests run pretty average...$15 to $40 for most testsand a consultation/exam/visit is only $60. My appointment is on the 11th. I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes. Megan, who gave you the 2k figure? The vet, or the hospital itself? I'm sorry, but you and I have talked a bit outside the group, and I must say, I'm just not digging your vet, Megan. I'm not sure what his motives or intentions are. I dunno if he's really clueless, or what. :( I still recommend another vet. And I'd find out from the hosptial itself if they're wanting to charge that much. I know I've heard a lot of people around here say their vets will try to discourage people from going to UT for various reasons...the biggest of which I truly think is they lose money. Do keep us updated on whats going on. :( Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: My cat was tested positive yesterday, and I don't know what to do.
Megan, I understand exactly where you’re coming from! Two of my three babies were diagnosed with FeLV last week. After much agonizing and listening to sound advice from the very educated people here, I’ve decided to not separate them right now. You can probably gather a LOT of information if you’ll go to the _www.felinleukemia.org_ (http://www.felinleukemia.org/) website and read all the posts from the last week or so, as my situation was almost identical to yours. As for my personal opinion, I strongly recommend you try UT CVM if you can possibly afford it. You’ll need a referral from your usual vet to be seen there. Ask your vet to refer you to Internal Medicine. I actually got my two appointments September 11, and I’ll let everyone know how it goes when I get there. It seems like you and I must be pretty close! I live about 40 minutes from UT, but I work in Alcoa, probably 15 minutes away from the UT CVM. I really just think UT was the absolute best care I could give my cats, and so I didn't hesitate. From what I understand, they will see your kitties for a consult and to discuss treatment options, but most of the treatment and follow up will be through your local vet. Fortunately, my vet graduated from UT CVM, so he was very willing and eager to give me the referral. I think your doc would probably do the same if you asked. I think the important thing to remember is, and this came directly from the FeLV website, “Feline Leukemia is NOT a death sentence.” That was very important for me to hear that and know that. As for specific information, I’m sure everyone else, who knows a lot more than I do, will be more than willing to offer advice. As for support, hey, I’m very close by, feel free to email me any time you need/want to talk. I understand how devastated you feel right now, I was the same way on day one… almost hysterical L Do keep everyone informed, ok? Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: fleas arhhhhh
What protocol do you guys usually follow for your positive cats (who are exclusively indoor, of course) and flea treatments? I'm sure with the FeLV, flea bites are even more dangerous. Should I be treating them with Frontline/Advantage every month year round, monthly during the summer months, every three months, never? Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Update 08/24/07
Update for the day: I spoke with my vet today at Creekside, and surprisingly enough he was very receptive and wrote the referrals for UT. They have an appointment on Tuesday, September 11 for, as Dr. Dolen wrote, FeLV workup and medical supportive therapy. It gives me some hope. We'll see. Ideally, I'll be able to consult with UT at least twice a year, and use the very close vet for emergent situations and maintenance. The girls continue to eat the fancy feast with the Lysine and Missing Link supplements in it. They actually didn't seem to mind it at all. They're working on the conversion to the Innova EVO dry food. Right now it's about 80% Purina naturals and 20% EVO. They're eating it, but a bit slower than they were the Purina Naturals alone, but this is normal from what I read? I'm also looking into buying a thermometer, as a temperature is one of the early warning signs of infection. I've done my research, and found the WNL temperature for a cat is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit, and the heart rate is 140-220. (This site has great information on it: _http://www.cathelp-online.com/emergency/vitals.php_ (http://www.cathelp-online.com/emergency/vitals.php) ). I really am hoping I can give them many more years with very careful care and attention. Do you guys have any thoughts on thermometers? I've found this one (_http://www.pet-temp.com/pet_temp.htm_ (http://www.pet-temp.com/pet_temp.htm) ) , any of you own one or have a better recommendation for an ear canal thermometer? I am really 95% positive they absolutely would not tolerate a rectal thermometer. Also, I just wanted to mention that I recently looked over the FeLV Fund store, and just loved the Feline Leukemia is NOT a death sentence and There is LIFE with Feline Leukemia messages. It provides hope. You all know I've had a rough time with this, and that's a message I needed. I'm going to order the license plate frame! Thanks for everything guys, and I'll email again when I have an update. Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Question about eye ulcers
Ok, guys, since I'm feeling particularly sad tonight about my babies, let me ask this... How long have you all known of a cat surviving after FeLV+ diagnosis? I know the standard is, according to almost everyone, 2-3 years after diagnosis, but I'm sure some of you all have had experiences with cats living longer? Just curious what everyone's experiences have been. Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Question about eye ulcers
Ugh, I'm sorry about that. I know that question has nothing to do with eye ulcers...I meant to change the subject line and forgot. :/ ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Question about eye ulcers/Benton's House
Who/What is this Best Friends? I must be missing something? ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: To Michael Re: Update
Quick question: I forgot how you came to test them in the first place.? Are they new adoptees or is one of them sick? Hi Wendy, To answer your question, they ended up being tested because the Vet asked Jeff if he wanted them tested.? He didn't know what to say, so he just said yes.? I guess its fortunate he did.? They're both asymptomatic.?They're actually quite healthy.? I've never?even noticed as much as a runny?nose from any of them.? The only thing I have seen is vomiting, but I'm hoping the new food will help with that...thats not a new issue...they've been doing that since I got them and long before Grizzabella came in and?infected Poppy.? They've been to?the vet several times, no one seems to have an answer other than they seem to be eating too fast.? But they're really not unhealthy...as?a matter of fact, Poppy is 14.5lbs, ack :(? The other two are?7.4 and?7.5, which is a healthy weight for their size. ?I'm going with the Innova EVO food today as soon as I can find that place on their website where its sold locally.? We'll see how that goes, I'll gradually switch it over as recommended. I also stopped by my vet office this morning on my way to work, and gave them the referral form for University of Tennessee CVM.? They seemed very receptive this morning.? The doctor that diagnosed them will be back in the morning and they said they'd give him the form. I suppose it will help that two of the vets at the clinic graduated from UT. I also asked about the prescription formula Missing Link supplement, and they made a note to check.? I mixed the lysine in this morning, and all three ate it!?That made me feel a bit better.? The one that stayed in one spot pretty much for 36 hours also got up and moved around a bit last night.? She even came in the living room and laid down on the couch with Jeff.? They're slowly feeling better from the vaccinations.? I'll keep updating as I get new information.? Thanks guys. -Original Message- From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 9:50 pm Subject: Re: To Michael Re: Update Hey Michael, ? I feed mine Elegant Medleys as a treat, so yes, I think it's fine.? It's not the best food, but I don't think it's going to hurt them.? I?buy the wet and dry Innova Evo online at Pet Food Direct usually.? I got a 22% discount the last time I ordered, which was a good deal.? The food is expensive, so when you look, don't be too surprised at the price.? I pay about $35 before discounts on a 15 lb. bag which lasts me with 4-5 cats about a month.? It's worth it.? When I started feeding?Smookie,?our newest kitty from the shelter, the Evo, her coat just blossomed into this gorgeous blue black shiny blanket.? I was amazed, which is saying a lot for me.? I can also get the food in about 3-4 stores, usually pet boutiques,?in Dallas, but since I live in the suburbs, it's cheaper to buy it online and have it shipped rather than drive.? I was used to feeding science diet, so when I saw that the food was basically?junk,?I felt bad, but I didn't know any better.? And if we didn't have the money, we wouldn't be able to feed the better foods.? It's a shame they are so expensive.??We?are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but we can afford a little extra on the food.? And they say?more protein means less elimination and less food eaten, but I forget why.? Someone else here will know. ? You can mix the lysine into their Medleys.? It's tasteless; they won't even know it's there.? Do you have the powder?? Other people use different supplements.? They will?know more about them than I will.? I'm really happy that your kitties are eating.? They'll probably be back to normal by tomorrow.? Quick question: I forgot how you came to test them in the first place.? Are they new adoptees or is one of them sick? ? Please try not to feel responsible for them having FeLV.? You didn't give it to them.? The best thing you can do for them is to remain stress free yourself as much as possible, because they will pick up on it if you are upset.? Every day you have with them is a gift, and one day, we're all going to meet our maker, kitties too.? So it may be that the FeLV is not what they pass from, but something else, and you'll have wasted all that time and energy worrying for nothing.? You just never know.? There is a 22 year old FeLV+ Siamese cat at the Casa de Calmar FeLV Unit at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah.? Can you believe that?!!!? I saw her and petted her myself this past February.? Have you heard of them?? Best Friends uses ImmunoRegulin once a month given via shot intra-muscular, asymptomatic or not.? They are really up to date on their stuff too, IMO.? Some people here use IR, given different ways,?and others use the interferon.? They will have good info. on that.? I would repost with those two as a subject heading so you're sure to get answers from the people
Update 08/23/07
Hey guys, Just an update on the situation with Grizzabella and Poppy. I stopped by my vet's office this morning with the UT vet referral forms in hand. I was actually quite surprised, they seemed very receptive to the idea, so I left the forms with them. They said the vet that diagnosed them wasn't working today, but they would leave them there for him in the morning. (he's a graduate of the UT CVM, as I checked his state licensure, so I'm hoping it won't be too hard to get a referral from him.) I'll let you guys know if I get the referral tomorrow. As for foodI went today and picked up the Innova EVO. For anyone else who might be looking for it, in addition to the place off Middlebrook that Melanie mentioned, they also have it at Smokey Mountain Grain and Feed in Maryville, and Earth Share, the organic/natural foods grocery store in Turkey Creek. Anyway, I picked it up today (as well as a couple cans of Innova EVO canned food, not sure if they will eat it, I'm going to try tonight) and I also stopped by Northshore Animal Hospital on my way home and bought a bag of the professional strength veterinary formula Missing Link supplement. They also got the Lysine this morning, and ate it very well! I'm going to start trying to incorporate the Lysine and Missing Link into their wet food in the am and pm by dividing the dose and feeding half of each both times. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about separating the litterbox/food/water for Penelope. She is, so far, negative. What do you guys think? Should I wait, or go with the separate food/water/litterboxes in separate rooms with the infrared kitty doors that require the collar to open? I figure I can buy two different doorsone for Poppy and Grizzabella, and another with a different frequency for Penny...that way it will keep all their food/water/litter separate. I don't really have to worry about separating Penny because she's a loner anyway..she doesn't associate with the other two really much at all.Should I go ahead with the separate bowls, and start by just adding a second set and letting all of them use both, and then after a while (when they know the second litterbox/water/food exists) add the radio controlled doors? I want to do whatever is easiest for them, I don't want to stress them over it, but I want to make sure Penny stays negative as much as humanly possible. I figure it'll be an easier transition if Penelope knows the food/water bowls are there before I lock her out of the others area. What do you think? I'm open to recommendations/suggestions. Right now I just have their dry food in disposable bowls that I'm changing daily. I'm also bleaching the drinkwell daily. I feed them once in their glass bowls then bleach/wash them. They are all still sharing a litterbox though. Thoughts? Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Update 08/23/07
Wendy, Here's the breakdown: I've had Grizzabella since 2001, and she was approximately a year old at that point, so she's about 7. She came from a rescue shelter that went terribly bad, but I'm almost certain I had her tested and she was negative at that time, because I remember she came with an awful URI when I got her. :( Poor thing. But what happened was she spent about three years with my mother. I had moved back home to help care for a terminally ill relative, and by the time she passed, Grizzabella had gotten so attached to mother and mother to she that I couldn't separate them. Bella came back to live with me after mother passed away in December 06. I think she likely contracted the FeLV while she was with mother, as she would often get outside, and mother wasn't able to chase her down. She went to the vet several times in that period for rabies shots and the like, but they never recommended FeLV vaccines, and I still don't know why. As for Poppy and Penny, I'm certain they were negative when I got them, as they came from Virginia Siamese Rescue. They were kittens, so at this point they're almost 2 1/2 years old, and Bella has only been here about 8-9 months, so I assume Poppy contracted it at somewhere around a year and a half to two years old. Penny tested negative on the ELISA. I'm going to take her back in 3-6 months and have her retested and insist on an IFA test. I say I'm certain they didn't have it when I adopted them because I know how thorough Va SRC is, especially with the fosters I got them from. I've gotten to know them, and I'm certain they tested. I guess its possible the test was a negative when I got them and they were in fact positive, but I kinda doubt it. I got poppy at approximately 12 weeks old, and Penny at approximately 8 weeks old. As for the bleaching...the food bowls are nonporous glazed porcelain, and they're bleached in the dishwasher, as dishwasher detergent has bleach in it. The drinkwell I can understand, though, being plastic. I usually dilute quite a bit, but I'll certainly stop if you all think it could cause more harm than do good. Thanks again! Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Update
Ok, guys, here's the status. I just called the vet's office, they told me both Poppy and Grizzabella's tests came back positive today. I guess what I need to do now is figure out what to do from here. I did ask about UT, and she just sort of side-stepped the question. I also asked what happened to Dr. Merryman, and the only thing she would tell me was She's not here anymore and I don't know what she's doing. So, needless to say, I think I'm done with this vet's office. I'm pretty sure I can get a referral to UT, so I guess that's the next step, both of them are headed there as soon as I can get the referrals. I tried the echinacea and lysine supplements, but none of them have felt well enough to eat since their vaccines yesterday, so I'll try it again when they're feeling better. If they don't take it. I'm a bit upset right now, so I'm gonna leave it at that guys, til I have a little time to calm down. I'm open to suggestions as to what I should do next. Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Update
Sorry, I should have clarified. UT is the Univ ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Update
Let me try this again UT is the University of Tennessee Medical Center. They have a Veterinary program there, its a teaching school. I think an internal medicine specialist is the next step, if I can get my doc to refer me. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: To Michael Re: Update
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely look into better foods. Do you all think its ok to mix in their morning and nightly Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys? There are three of them, and they share a can each morning and each night, so they average only 1/3 of a can at a time, but its something they have come to expect. I guess I'm wondering if there's something wrong with giving that to them. They've been on the Purina Naturals dry food, but I'm going to switch over to something with no grains and high proteins. I'm going to look for the Innova Evo, but I don't recall ever seeing it. I'll be sure to look for something with no grains tomorrow. As for the nutritional supplement recommendation, I've already gotten Lysine and Echinacea, but haven't been able to get them to eat it yet. I'm hoping they will when they're feeling better. They did eat tonight, so that makes me feel better now that I've seen them eating. As for the supplements, are those the only two recommended, or is there something else? And do you guys mix that in the dry food, or in their wet food? Luckily, we rarely ever have guests, and rarely leave for more than a couple of days at a time (and my sister is here with them when we leave, with whom they are very familiar, she has been living here on and off). They did not vaccinate the cat they knew had tested positive, but vaccinated Poppy because they ran out of ELISA tests and had to send in an IFA test with her along with Grizzabella's. I'm not comfortable with this vet office treating them, so that's why I'm going in the morning to get them to refer them to University of Tennessee School of Veterinary Medicine. I looked up the hospital tonight, quite impressive...they have 10 exam rooms, 7000 dogs/cats a year, an intensive care unit, specialists in every field you can imagine, it looks very promising: _http://www.vet.utk.edu/_ (http://www.vet.utk.edu/) The vet's office bothered me because they didn't even recommend an IFA test to verify her positive ELISA test. They just said she had it, period. That didn't sit well with me. I feel very personally responsible for them getting sick and I'm taking this very hard. But all I can do now is make sure they have the absolute best care possible. Ok, to summarize, here's what I need input on from you guys: 1. Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys...1/3 of a can morning and night...is this ok? 2. Dry food...brand recommendations 3. Supplements...any recommendations other than lysine and echinacea, and do you put it in wet or dry food? 4. Treatment options? Do you use the ImmunoRegulin Or Interferon Alpha in healthy cats, or is that treatment options you use when they're symptomatic? Thanks for all the support to everyone and all the emails I've received. It really helps me to feel like I have some sense of control over the situation, and I'm not just completely helpless. Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
New Diagnosis
Hello Everyone, My name is Michael Roberts.? I just received word a few hours ago about one of my babies being diagnosed, so bear with me if this takes me a while to get out. First of all, a bit of background information.? I currently have three cats, all Siamese and all from rescues.? The oldest, and the one with the FeLV diagnosis, is approximately 6-7 years old, and the other two are?a little over two.? The first one came from a local rescue shelter here in Tennessee called Angel Wings, which has since been shut down. The other two came from VA Siamese Rescue, an organization that my partner and I are still somewhat active in.? We volunteer to transport on occasion and remain in the newsgroups/email lists. I took all three for their checkups today, and the vet asked if we watned them tested for FeLV, to which we agreed.? The test on Grizzabella came back positive. The test on Penelope was negative, and they ran out of tests, so Poppy hasn't been tested yet.? I did request them to retest Grizzabella (even though they charged me again), and the blood was drawn and sent out for Grizzabella's retest and Poppy's test today, and we should have results by tomorrow. Here's my issuethis is my first time dealing with FeLV, and I don't know what to do or what to expect.? All three of those cats are our children, and I can't bear the thought of seperating them or giving Grizzabella up because she's sick, but I don't know how likely it is the other two will contract the disease, or how to seperate them.? I'm not sure what to do about treatment, either.? I've heard there's no treatment, then I've heard there's meds, and diet changes.? I'm just not sure what my next step should be.? I noticed there are six stages to the disease, and four different types...I don't have any of that inforomation yet.? Can anyone give me a heads up and let me know where we should start with this?? Not sure what I need to do, guys.? I know lots of you have a lot of experience with this, and i'd be interested in any advice you can give. Thanks in advance. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
Re: New Diagnosis
Thanks guys. I stopped on my way home from work and picked up some Lysine and Echinacea, I'm going to start putting it in their food. I also got some high protein purina naturals food to replace their cat chow indoor formula, and I'll step up to proplan or iams or something if I need to. I also plan on sanitizing all the feeding bowls and drinkwell fountain daily. After speaking with the former fosters and the state coordinator for VA SRC, I think this is the best plan for now. I'll keep you all updated once I get a real diagnosis from the tests they sent off today. Michael ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
