Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Thank you Lorrie. 



-Original Message-
From: Lorrie 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Sat, Nov 28, 2015 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

On 11-27, Christine Dundas wrote:

> 
>     It was awful knowing that she suffered.
> 
>So you see, I feel guilty knowing we should have done it before she
>suffered.   There is no right way with this awful virus.
> 
>Christine
 

After years and years of rescue work and seeing cats and kittens
suffer from FelV I think it is kinder to put them to sleep when they
begin to show symptoms of sickness with this horrible virus.

Lorrie

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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Oh, Christine, I am so sorry.


You did all you could do, and wanted to give her every chance. I wish it could 
always work out that they never suffer for a second, but it just doesn't happen 
sometimes. I've been there too.
thank you, for responding. It is giving me peace, to hear from you and some 
other members. I wish this disease could be eradicated. among many others.
take care.
Anne



-Original Message-
From: Christine Dundas 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne
First of all I'm very sorry for your loss.
I've been on both sides.  Just recently, I was dealing with FELV cat.  Very 
anemic.  I kept holding off on putting her to sleep, trying different things.  
Ruthie had been maintaining. then started to go downhill fast.  The morning she 
passed, we were going to take her in to be put to sleep.
she was in terrible respiratory distress.  Our Vet would come in later that 
morning.  30 mins before we were going to bring her in, she passed in my 
husband's arms.  
It was awful knowing that she suffered.
So you see, I feel guilty knowing we should have done it before she suffered.
There is no right way with this awful virus.
Christine 
On Nov 27, 2015 1:00 PM,   wrote:

Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets were 
not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not always 
believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but I also know 
that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Thank you Marsha, for your kind reassurance and wisdom. I don't think Sam would 
have made it another day, actually, now that I realize it was severe anemia 
making him weak. I didn't think of that right off, but I  once treated a 
beloved cat with epogen, for kidney disease related non regenerative anemia, 
and I can recognize now what was going on with Sam. The white of his eyes 
conjunctiva had alarmed me, a few days earlier, but I didn't know why. now I 
remember. 
I appreciate your kind response, and hope that someday, this disease can be 
eliminated.


Anne


-Original Message-
From: Marsha 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



My condolences on your loss of Sam.   You gave him the best life you could, 
and you made a reasonable  decision in the end.  There is no guarantee for 
the treatments  some have tried, and by the time you researched each, found 
 someone who would work with you, and then ordered and received it,  it 
may have been too late anyway.  I think a "for sure"  treatment/cure for 
FeLV is many years away, if ever, because there  is noplace investing 
research money in it, especially since the  vaccine that is available has 
reduced the number of cases.  
  
  Marsha
  
  
  On 11/27/2015 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:


Hello. Myname is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on 
   Wednesday, due to his having felv and being very ill.



I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to  let some 
furbabies go in the past, and I always have those  doubts, even though 
I know it was the right thing for them.  




I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed,  taken to vet, 
treated, and have found homes for some. I  rescued Sam and his brother 
Domino, when they were young  kittens, the babies of a feral/stray 
momma. An evil neighbor  trapped their mom, brother, and sister, and 
took them to  Animal friends in our town, where they were euthanized
  immediately... the animal warden made me aware of this when I  
called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 




Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl,  Roxie, have 
been my only ones for the past few years. Sam and  Dom are four years 
old. Sam was always sickly, with colds. the  vet thought it was 
probably feline herpes, and he was treated  for colds, and finally 
didn't get them anymore, though he  began to have issues ... 
stomatitis. it was getting harder and  harder to get it to clear up. 




I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months  old. I 
thought they had a felv shot at that time, but  Wednesday, I learned 
that they had not.




Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed  kitty :), 
but his mouth became very inflamed and  I took him  in to the vet. She 
gave him zenequin and prednisone. It wasn't  working, and he became 
worse, not eating much, and I took him  back. they then gave him 
fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was  to call back in two days. He 
became lethargic the day after  the shot.. hardly walking, eyes became 
bloodshot and running a  lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They  called me to say that they tested him and he was feline  
leukemia positive. 




I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was  anemic by 
this time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible.  not even standing 
by this point! I honestly could not imagine  him coming back from this 
point, and asked them if it was the  best thing to let him go. They 
said yes, that he was just  going to keep going down hill (he was 
already bottomed out, in  my opinion). So I went in, and held him while 
giving him  freedom from his pain and suffering. It is breaking my 
heart  and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I  
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 




I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet  store cat, 
who was abandoned by a relative who was supposed to  be caring for her. 
she had a micro chip and I was able to talk  to her owner who was away 
at college. I am thinking that Roxie  had had her vaccine for that. I 
will be having her tested  soon, at another vets, where she has a 
treatment plan. The  same for Domino, who I am worried about, although 
he has been  

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Amani,


Thank you. I actually read quite a few of your posts about Winstrol. I am glad 
for you, and sweet Zander, that you found something to give him more time.. 
lots of love and living in that extra time, I am sure. 
I am sorry for your loss, though. Seven years just isn't enough, but Zander was 
blessed to have your care and dedication.


I am hoping that my other cats will test negative, but if they do not, I have a 
wonderful vet, at another practice, who will work with me, I believe with my 
heart that she will. Thank you for sharing your experience! It means the world 
to us, when we can keep our furbabies healthier. How sad that some vets are 
afraid, or reluctant, about the winstrol. I agree, that treating, even if side 
effects are not so good, is better than their dying without trying everything 
we can.


my best 
Anne


-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne
 
None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.
 
Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.
 
Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.
 
My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did everything you could 
and gave him every chance.
 
Amani
 
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 1:00 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv
 
Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.

 

I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  

 

I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 

 

Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 

 

I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.

 

Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he 

Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Dear Lance,


Thank you so very much. It means so much to me to have the input from those who 
understand the disease, and who also love their furbabies. 
I will have them tested, sooner than later, because every time I look at them 
now, I fear for them.


Thank you for the link. It was helpful and I will check it out more fully.
best wishes, 
anne



-Original Message-
From: Lance 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



Anne,


I’m sorry for your loss. Sam sounds adorable (we have a squirrel-tail, too). 
You did what you thought was best for him based on the advice of the vet. And 
that’s okay. It’s the best any of us can do. We all walk a fine line between 
wanting to give them every chance to rebound and wanting to prevent avoidable 
suffering.


It’s worth looking over the AAFP’s official paper on feline  retroviruses.


http://www.catvets.com/guidelines/practice-guidelines/retrovirus-management-guidelines


It’ll be good to get both Dom and Roxie tested. It’s unnerving to wait for it. 
Many of us have had cats we were certain had contracted FeLV through extensive 
contact with known positives, and tests later showed no infection in these 
“vulnerable” ones.


Perhaps some of these cats have latent infections that are unlikely to ever 
surface. Or, they just weren’t infected when overexposed to the virus, and 
they’re resistant.


I hope you get good news about both cats once you get them in for their tests. 


Best,


Lance



On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:00 PM, annetbur...@aol.com wrote:


Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so 

[Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

Hello. My name is Anne, and I just had to put my kitty, Sam, down on Wednesday, 
due to his having felv and being very ill.


I am having those terrible self doubts now... I have had to let some furbabies 
go in the past, and I always have those doubts, even though I know it was the 
right thing for them.  


I am a cat rescue participant. I have had strays fixed, taken to vet, treated, 
and have found homes for some. I rescued Sam and his brother Domino, when they 
were young kittens, the babies of a feral/stray momma. An evil neighbor trapped 
their mom, brother, and sister, and took them to Animal friends in our town, 
where they were euthanized immediately... the animal warden made me aware of 
this when I called him, to talk about the neighbor trapping them. 


Anyway, Sam and Dom , and another rescued abandoned girl, Roxie, have been my 
only ones for the past few years. Sam and Dom are four years old. Sam was 
always sickly, with colds. the vet thought it was probably feline herpes, and 
he was treated for colds, and finally didn't get them anymore, though he began 
to have issues ... stomatitis. it was getting harder and harder to get it to 
clear up. 


I had Sam and Dom neutered when they were about six months old. I thought they 
had a felv shot at that time, but Wednesday, I learned that they had not.


Sam was always happy, bouncy, and my little squirrel tailed kitty :), but his 
mouth became very inflamed and  I took him in to the vet. She gave him zenequin 
and prednisone. It wasn't working, and he became worse, not eating much, and I 
took him back. they then gave him fluids, and a depo medrol shot. I was to call 
back in two days. He became lethargic the day after the shot.. hardly walking, 
eyes became bloodshot and running a lot. I knew he was in trouble, and took him 
back in. They called me to say that they tested him and he was feline leukemia 
positive. 


I was so afraid that he was not going to get better. He was anemic by this 
time. petikia in his eyes, his gums terrible. not even standing by this point! 
I honestly could not imagine him coming back from this point, and asked them if 
it was the best thing to let him go. They said yes, that he was just going to 
keep going down hill (he was already bottomed out, in my opinion). So I went 
in, and held him while giving him freedom from his pain and suffering. It is 
breaking my heart and I need to hear that I did not do this prematurely I 
see things online now, where people say it can be treated. 


I have the other two, who seem very well. Roxie was a pet store cat, who was 
abandoned by a relative who was supposed to be caring for her. she had a micro 
chip and I was able to talk to her owner who was away at college. I am thinking 
that Roxie had had her vaccine for that. I will be having her tested soon, at 
another vets, where she has a treatment plan. The same for Domino, who I am 
worried about, although he has been through a broken  leg, an infection in the 
cast, and a long treatment before  his leg was able to be re -casted.  he has 
always been very healthy, but I am worried. I have been reading , searching, as 
to whether some cats may not get it, and I am hoping that my Domino is one of 
the lucky ones who may have had it and thrown it off (If I understand that 
process correctly).


I am so sad, wondering if I could have given my Sam more time. The vets were 
not positive at all, and agreed that it was the best for Sam. I do not always 
believe vets, and don't have the utmost trust in this practice, but I also know 
that doubts are normal, when you have had to make this terrible choice, for 
your beloved furbaby.


any reassurances are welcome. 
thank you,
anne
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv

[annetburton]

I will definitely ask my vet, if my others should be positive too. I have found 
that often, we know things that some vets have no experience with. Some resent 
it, but some are humble and the animal is more important than their egos.
Anne



-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv



 
Zander was just the most wonderful cat, Anne. My husband and I would have done 
anything at all for him. We loved him dearly and desperately and he loved us 
right back. We have been involved in rescuing strays for quite a while, and 
that sweet little boy was certainly one who made a huge mark on our lives.
 
We still ache for him. Our vets were happy to let us lead the charge on his 
care. My vet and another senior vet at Guelph Veterinary College, suggested – 
sort of joking but not completely – that I should write a paper on his 
recovery. I considered it, but I am so swamped at work, I never did. When he 
died, it took all the wind out of my sails.
 
I feel for your loss. The blame doesn’t lie with you but again, my frustration 
is that the vets should be at least offering Winstrol in a situation where 
there is profound anemia since it did wonders to stimulate red cell production 
with Zander, and I have seen it with other cats now. I remain unable to 
comprehend why the vet community would rather not tell us about this option, 
and allow us to have to accept death or euthanasia instead.
 
Amani
 
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of 
annetbur...@aol.com
Sent: November-27-15 2:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv
 
Amani,

 

Thank you. I actually read quite a few of your posts about Winstrol. I am glad 
for you, and sweet Zander, that you found something to give him more time.. 
lots of love and living in that extra time, I am sure. 

I am sorry for your loss, though. Seven years just isn't enough, but Zander was 
blessed to have your care and dedication.

 

I am hoping that my other cats will test negative, but if they do not, I have a 
wonderful vet, at another practice, who will work with me, I believe with my 
heart that she will. Thank you for sharing your experience! It means the world 
to us, when we can keep our furbabies healthier. How sad that some vets are 
afraid, or reluctant, about the winstrol. I agree, that treating, even if side 
effects are not so good, is better than their dying without trying everything 
we can.

 

my best 

Anne

-Original Message-
From: Amani Oakley 
To: felvtalk 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2015 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to understand about felv


Anne

 

None of this is your fault at all. I too was given no hope for my Zander. It is 
the reason I was so angry with the vet community when I stumbled upon Winstrol 
and found it worked. I was then so stunned to find out that I hadn’t just 
accidentally “discovered” something new. The vet I spoke with (who had been the 
internal medicine specialist looking after Zander and pressuring me to put him 
down – saying that I needed to consider his “quality of life”) surprised me by 
telling me that he knew about Winstrol and that I had gone “old school”. He 
told me that they used to use Winstrol “years back” but had stopped when a 
report had surfaced suggesting that it might cause liver damage.

 

Then, after having proof positive that the Winstrol had done this amazing thing 
with Zander and brought him back from the brink of death, still I encountered 
vets who were resistant to using Winstrol. I couldn’t understand it at all. 
They preferred to put a cat down than to even TRY the Winstrol. Thus my 
conclusion that Winstrol has been “black balled” because of its association 
with performance enhancement in athletes. Seriously, nothing else makes any 
sense. When a cat is dying, whether or not a vet believes that there may be 
side-effects to a medication, it makes no sense to withhold something that MAY 
be beneficial when the end result is certainly going to be bad.

 

Anne, there is just nothing at all you did wrong. I sympathize completely with 
your guilt, because I too wish I had known more about Winstrol BEFORE Zander 
decompensated so badly. I think that because he did, the virus was allowed to 
continue attacking his body and left scarring on the heart – the cause of his 
death at 7 years.

 

My experience is the reason I found this group and was determined to share my 
experience. I hoped that sharing my experience might mean that others may find 
that Winstrol is helpful for their cats as well, and I have since used it in a 
number of other situations of cats given no hope. Obviously, it is impossible 
to know if Sam might have been helped, but you clearly did