Re: list matters/marriage
Hey guys, Wow! I have been reading all the posts I've missed over the past couple of weeks and was surprised to see another fuss going on (that's Texan for 'argument'...lol). I was hoping that it would be longer before we had another blow up considering the two we had earlier this year. It finally dawned on me that this list is a lot like a marriage (or any close relationship really). It has its ups and downs and people are going to get on each other's nerves some, but that doesn't mean we don't care about one another. Ultimately, the list will only survive if the members are committed to its survival. The list's success, like a marriage, is in direct correlation to the effort of its members who are participating, which includes the effort to help as well as the effort to temper what we say. It's ok to disagree; it's how we do it that can ruffle feathers. Some of you are using the words used to be to describe this list, but I don't think it's changed all that much, except it is missing a few key players that are really valuable. We are going to go through stuff here, but we really need to try to keep it as respectful as possible and keep our tones diplomatic as someone else stated so that we don't run people off; people who have cats that need help, which is why we're all here. So in essence, we just need to watch how we say things, myself included. I've enjoyed being married to most all of you though, despite the few fuss's we've had! lololol. And don't run off...things will go back to normal if everyone is committed to doing so, which I think we all are. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz
Re: list matters
Well said Melissa. I should have read this post before I posted because you took the words right out of my mouth. We're going to be fine here. Just give it a little time. :) Wendy (and her clan sitting behind her computer chair, peering over her shoulder, and waiting breathlessly to see what happens next to the group)...lol Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:04:57 AM Subject: RE: list matters Well said. I (like Kelley) do not have an FeLV+ kitty anymore, but hung around because of the wise advice I’ve received. I agree that the arguments have progressively worsened to pettiness. We should choose our words with tact and with conviction. We all have a right to our opinions, but we need to realize that there is a difference between debating a subject and just being mean. Debate is good and healthy, and where I stand on this issue will not budge, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t acknowledge and try to learn from the opposition. It doesn’t mean my mind will change, but I will learn what others are thinking, feeling, so that in the future I can know best how to approach such issues in a way that will win people over to my way of thinking. I think that’s the importance of our arguing. Does this make sense? Diane, your decision was a tough one. I certainly don’t want to attack you or anyone else, but I can’t help but ask if you ever considered the soft paws, the little plastic covers? Maybe they weren’t around at the time? I couldn’t help but bring up this alternative since we’re on the subject. Although I am saddened by the fighting going on, I also think it’s normal and cyclical. This is what happens in a family. We all have something in common here, yet we are all uniquely different, just like in a family. There’s going to be tension, misunderstanding, and things said just to be mean, to get a reaction, to inflict hurt back where hurt was inflicted. I abhor confrontation, but I think that it’s also healthy and cathartic to get all this out of our systems. We can’t be happy (or fake happy) all the time when there are so many personalities mingling here. A little fighting is healthy, but can we move on already? I miss hearing from those who are too shy, too disgusted, or too exhausted to respond to these arguments. It feels as though our list has been reduced to 5 or 6 people. I miss the rest of the voices. Melissa From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:33 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any less important to say. You all judge some on this list for doing the exact same thing you are. If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a terrible loss. I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is not the easy thing to say. She had every right to say what she did as everyone else did to sling childish insults back. One line snips are the trademark of a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject. Yes, everyone is here to provide information and support. Yes, everyone has differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it. If you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this argument, not just one. Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group and not an individual. I believe we've all done that at one time or another. And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list. If any of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable viruses is not a good situation, regardless of how well the intentions are. Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how good intentions go
Re: list matters
And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not. I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation. -Original Message- From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM Subject: list matters I think it's pretty out in the open now. Susan and Glenda tend to judge others on the list. This is OUR list. We can ignore and correct misinformation when it comes from anyone. This has always been THE most supportive and informative list I have ever been on. Let's not lose the list due to a few people. tonya Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything you do is perfect!!?? Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list. However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her. When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake. period. You do not begin to mix them. That is basic shelter 101. And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all. However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
RE: list matters
It's not what's said that's usually the problem; it's the way in which it's said. What's the point of saying something in a mean, nasty way when it can be said civilly? There's too much meanness in the world as it is without us adding to it. I agree with the person who said something along the lines of, you don't win people over by yelling at them. Never did, never will. Kerry M. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not. I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation. -Original Message- From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM Subject: list matters I think it's pretty out in the open now. Susan and Glenda tend to judge others on the list. This is OUR list. We can ignore and correct misinformation when it comes from anyone. This has always been THE most supportive and informative list I have ever been on. Let's not lose the list due to a few people. tonya Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything you do is perfect!!?? Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list. However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her. When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake. period. You do not begin to mix them. That is basic shelter 101. And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all. However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com http://www.petgirlspetsitting.com/ www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org http://www.tx.siameserescue.org/ www.shadowcats.net http://www.shadowcats.net/ As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. _ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48256/*http://travel.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTF hN2hucjlpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNncm91cHMEc2xrA2VtYWlsLW5jbQ-- on Yahoo! Travel. _ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta
Re: list matters
Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot by throwing flames! And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies that have been going on. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well.??I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, ???We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.??I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list.??We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not.I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them.??Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives.??So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan.??Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation.
Re: list matters
I don't think that anyone is trying to silence anyone because they don't agree with them. This used to be the most tolerant, friendly, supportive place on the Internet, for my money. I used to really value it just because everyone was entitled to their opinion, and you didn't see a lot of fingerpointing, accusations, inflammatory phrasing (such as toe amputation), etc. I never let my cats outside, but there are/have been list members who do/did, and no one jumped up and down and hollered about how they shouldn't do that. Similarly mixing FELV+ with FELV- cats. Everyone was allowed to make their own decisions without being called irresponsible, crazy, stupid, or any other such judgemental word. Many of us liked it that way, and a few of us have stuck around, me because I have a hell of a thick skin (you really have to, to do rescue), and some others because there has been a lot of innacurate information dispensed and they really hate to see it. Heck, I don't even HAVE any FELV+ cats (I had a kitten come up pos at one time, which is why I came here, and it was so nice, friendly and supportive, I stayed). It was also one of the best places to look for advice/information on general cat care, etc. It isn't anymore, and that makes many of us sad, and lots of the oldtimers have left. There's enough grief in caring for sick cats, without creating a bunch of bickering and infighting. On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not. I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation. -Original Message- From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM Subject: list matters I think it's pretty out in the open now. Susan and Glenda tend to judge others on the list. This is OUR list. We can ignore and correct misinformation when it comes from anyone. This has always been THE most supportive and informative list I have ever been on. Let's not lose the list due to a few people. tonya Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything you do is perfect!!?? Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list. However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her. When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake. period. You do not begin to mix them. That is basic shelter 101. And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all. However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for
Re: list matters
Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any less important to say. You all judge some on this list for doing the exact same thing you are. If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a terrible loss. I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is not the easy thing to say. She had every right to say what she did as everyone else did to sling childish insults back. One line snips are the trademark of a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject. Yes, everyone is here to provide information and support. Yes, everyone has differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it. If you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this argument, not just one. Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group and not an individual. I believe we've all done that at one time or another. And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list. If any of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable viruses is not a good situation, regardless of how well the intentions are. Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how good intentions go. Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing. I just read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw. Look, as I have stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put in tough places with tough decisions to make. If you're forced to declaw, or if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision. Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a SHELTER, a non-profit organization dedicated to rescuing and helping otherwise helpless animals, making these choices across the board. There's a big difference there and in an individual owner having to make tough decisions. It sounds like (and I'm just stating fact here, not passing judgement on the open forum) that the shelter in question declaws across the board (with the exeption of FeLV/FIV+) every time a cat comes in the shelter. Same for mixing. They mix every positive cat that comes through, regardless of which diagnosis they have. That was the concern. Not individual choices that have to be made. Diane R. was in a tough spot, and had to make a tough decision. I don't know that I would have made a different one if I were in her place. -Original Message- From: Kat To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Sep 26 10:12 AM Subject: Re: list matters Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot by throwing flames! And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies that have been going on.Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them
RE: list matters
Well said. I (like Kelley) do not have an FeLV+ kitty anymore, but hung around because of the wise advice I’ve received. I agree that the arguments have progressively worsened to pettiness. We should choose our words with tact and with conviction. We all have a right to our opinions, but we need to realize that there is a difference between debating a subject and just being mean. Debate is good and healthy, and where I stand on this issue will not budge, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t acknowledge and try to learn from the opposition. It doesn’t mean my mind will change, but I will learn what others are thinking, feeling, so that in the future I can know best how to approach such issues in a way that will win people over to my way of thinking. I think that’s the importance of our arguing. Does this make sense? Diane, your decision was a tough one. I certainly don’t want to attack you or anyone else, but I can’t help but ask if you ever considered the soft paws, the little plastic covers? Maybe they weren’t around at the time? I couldn’t help but bring up this alternative since we’re on the subject. Although I am saddened by the fighting going on, I also think it’s normal and cyclical. This is what happens in a family. We all have something in common here, yet we are all uniquely different, just like in a family. There’s going to be tension, misunderstanding, and things said just to be mean, to get a reaction, to inflict hurt back where hurt was inflicted. I abhor confrontation, but I think that it’s also healthy and cathartic to get all this out of our systems. We can’t be happy (or fake happy) all the time when there are so many personalities mingling here. A little fighting is healthy, but can we move on already? I miss hearing from those who are too shy, too disgusted, or too exhausted to respond to these arguments. It feels as though our list has been reduced to 5 or 6 people. I miss the rest of the voices. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:33 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any less important to say. You all judge some on this list for doing the exact same thing you are. If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a terrible loss. I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is not the easy thing to say. She had every right to say what she did as everyone else did to sling childish insults back. One line snips are the trademark of a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject. Yes, everyone is here to provide information and support. Yes, everyone has differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it. If you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this argument, not just one. Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group and not an individual. I believe we've all done that at one time or another. And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list. If any of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable viruses is not a good situation, regardless of how well the intentions are. Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how good intentions go. Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing. I just read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw. Look, as I have stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put in tough places with tough decisions to make. If you're forced to declaw, or if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision. Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a SHELTER, a non
Re: list matters
Nastiness and bullying are not needed to voice an opinion. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: list matters
I agree with Kat. And I must say that I've been silent about all that's been going on with people upset and leaving the list due to a few posters who vent and flame their opinions rather than just sharing them. I thought it was time I said something because we are losing the most knowledgeable people on this list and something needed to be said about what's going on. You can state your opinion without being insulting. And for the record, I'm one of the people that believes cats are better off dead than declawing. I hate declawing. But I don't personally attack others who don't agree for their own reasons. Every situation has 2 sides. tonya Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot by throwing flames! And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies that have been going on. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: list matters And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that our includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, âWe will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or not.  I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation.
