Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
Believe me, I am 100% onboard with TNR, it’s just not for me. I have tried several times to set-up colonies in Greenwich, but could not get anyone to become responsible caretakers….TNR colonies require really dedicated and responsible people, not part-time do-gooders who have no idea how much work goes into caring for a colony to keep it healthy. And as I said before, I am totally against the immediate release after surgery (spay/neuter, especially in the winter))….but you would be surprised how many keep doing it with horrible results; their philosophy is that even though they lose a few, they’ve done their part! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:37 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I lost two feral females three days after they were spayed. They were kept up, safe and cared for. They were fine when I checked them the night before. Two wonderful girls, unrelated, spayed at different times by different vets, seemingly very healthy. It is bad enough that they died. It would have been a lot worse had they died after being releasedat least from the point of other animals causing even more pain. Maybe the cats would not agree. I won't even bring a cat who has been spayed home for three days now. On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:58 AM, GRAS wrote: Believe me, I am 100% onboard with TNR, it’s just not for me. I have tried several times to set-up colonies in Greenwich, but could not get anyone to become responsible caretakers….TNR colonies require really dedicated and responsible people, not part-time do- gooders who have no idea how much work goes into caring for a colony to keep it healthy. And as I said before, I am totally against the immediate release after surgery (spay/neuter, especially in the winter))….but you would be surprised how many keep doing it with horrible results; their philosophy is that even though they lose a few, they’ve done their part! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:37 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/ hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I thought he did take in ferals at his ranch. Ones that were pulled from animal control or had to be relocated. Heard that years ago so I'm not sure. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:17:08 -0500 From: g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures.Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care!I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats!Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats.Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder.I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't.Martahttp://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the AC's around here send animals to these places to keep their euthanasia rates down. Really sad. Animals would be better off being put down Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: I thought he did take in ferals at his ranch. Ones that were pulled from animal control or had to be relocated. Heard that years ago so I'm not sure. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:17:08 -0500 From: g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures.Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care!I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats!Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats.Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder.I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't.Martahttp://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats. Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder. I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
ASPCA removed 700 cats from Caboodle Ranch - I tried posting it here this morning, even in three parts, it was still too large., and kept bouncing back, saying it has to be reviewed.. If anyone would like to see it, let me know and I will forward TO YOU. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dana giordano Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:51 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links Just info on the caboodle ranch issue: This place gets a lot of media attention and volunteers. Personally, while he's not perfect, he was not alone in this work, so it seems at least worth it to consider he got steamrolled. I've been reading about it and it really seems like it may have been part of an overall political move by PETA (who tends to kill animals, not save them - check their stats.) PETA apparently wants to stop the bill that will allow rescues to pull the animals slated to die from the county shelter and is using this issue as a platform. ASPCA was involved but I think PETA was pretty much running that show. And if there is one org I do NOT trust it is PETA. (So now you know where my bias is.) Anyway, If you're interested in reading more: http://blogs.catster.com/the-cats-meow-a-cat-and-kitten-blog/caboodle-ranch- the-other-side-of-the-story/2012/03/05/ http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-02/story/embattled-caboodle-ranch -operator-says-confiscated-records-detail-his If you want to support the guy, there is a Caboodle Ranch petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch-fre e-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch?utm_medium=facebook http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch-fr ee-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch?utm_medium=facebookutm_source=share_ petitionutm_term=autopublish utm_source=share_petitionutm_term=autopublish# I hope the cats will end up in a safe place and not euthed. Remember, more than anything, it is the cats who now are in bigger danger now, then they were at the ranch. Also - consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) This is a sad story. I hope we hear better news for all the animals involved. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don't like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can't even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats. Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder. I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
