Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-04 Thread Lee Evans
All these killer cat articles are a backlash against TNR. It's unfortunate 
that some people are so mentally paralyzed that they don't realize that spaying 
and neutering a cat (or dog) will stop the reproductive cycle. A spayed cat is 
a spayed cat, one cat. An intact cat is a cat and then more and more cats with 
each birth of kittens. I have spoken to people who say, Well yes, but even if 
you spay the cat you still have a cat. Using this logic, any time you have a 
quantity of individuals who are considered too many, including human 
overpopulation you should look towards a solution that involves killing the 
individuals, which instantly rids the area of the unwanted human or non human 
but doesn't solve the long term problem of overpopulation. Hitler tried this 
form of birth control, killing those individuals that he thought were not 
valuable and should not reproduce. Obviously, it didn't work too well. Any time 
killing is involved in population
 control, there will be people who will not go along with the program because 
of issues like compassion and aversion to death.

Now here's a true study. There was a town in Arizona or Colorado (not sure 
which State) that did have a large number of free-roaming cats. They did trap 
them and kill them and were down to very few cats. Most of the remaining cats 
were kept inside. It was actually against the law to allow cats outside. Mother 
Nature hates to be tampered with. In a year, the town was overrun by rats and 
mice and crop eating small mammals. People were so upset that the City Council 
voted to import several hundred cats from shelters in surrounding towns so that 
they could rebuild their outside cat population.  It seems that in spite of the 
150 million estimate of cats and the billions of dead mice and rats and birds, 
we see no dearth of mice, rats and birds, including song birds. And yes, cats 
are an introduced species although the cat family of larger cats such as 
mountain lions, bob cats and others were here already when explorers arrived to 
settle this continent.
 There was a good reason why the cats came along. If they hadn't, the rats and 
mice that infested the ships would have eaten the food supplies before the 
ships could complete the journey. All that would have been left would have been 
skeletons of starved to death settlers. 


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others
 

Take heart: 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast



On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it 
comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a 
wonder any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An 
acquaintance of mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to 
have her healthy FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it 
from cats. Meow? My tenant, when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV 
was highly contagious but FeLv was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this 
day refuse to hug a person who is living with HIV but will shake hands 
with someone who has a horrid head cold and get all chummy with people 
who are coughing all over the air.

Many veterinarians seem not to
 like cats to the point of finding reasons to put them to death. Others 
are simply too lazy to study new theories of medicine. In some cases, we
 have not traveled more than inches away from dancing around the bonfire
 to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.

Finally, we are 
now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from almost comic 
studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats and mice. 
Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in moles,
 voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that mostly 
fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news day, 
and you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being 
slaughtered and exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though 
that humans  have hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a 
head to hang on the wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop 
male sexual dysfunction, or to carve into little statues or furniture 
(elephants) or just as a lovely delicacy to eat at a way overpriced 
fancy restaurant. (shark fin soup and other
 disgusting dishes). Sometimes it seems like humans will kill everything
 from snails to whales for the most trivial or ridiculous reason. 
However, just let it be known that cats kill mice and rats for a living 
and you have panic in the streets. Ah well, time to get off my soap box 
and go to bed.



 
Spay and Neuter your cats

Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-04 Thread Marcia Baronda
Love it love it love it!!! You hit the nail on the head Lee, cats kill from 
instinct and hunger. Humans  kill from ego. It makes me sick (what humans do). 
We pulled up into the driveway last night and a bunny ran across. My husband 
said to me, isn't it amazing how the cats don't seem to bother these rabbits? 
 yes it's amazing! Humans are amazing. They come up with the most wonderful 
ideas, like gestation crates, a lovely form of all sorts of deprivation. What 
bothers me is that we think we have the RIGHT to do what we do to other beings. 
OK, I'm done. Thanks for the email(-:

Marcia

Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. 

On Feb 3, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Alev alev_dur...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Lee,
 
 I couldnt agree more, thank you for this email, I will never stop talking 
 about animal rights to people,
 take care
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 2, 2013, at 5:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it 
 comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a wonder 
 any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An acquaintance of 
 mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to have her healthy 
 FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it from cats. Meow? My tenant, 
 when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV was highly contagious but FeLv 
 was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this day refuse to hug a person who is 
 living with HIV but will shake hands with someone who has a horrid head cold 
 and get all chummy with people who are coughing all over the air.
 
 Many veterinarians seem not to like cats to the point of finding reasons to 
 put them to death. Others are simply too lazy to study new theories of 
 medicine. In some cases, we have not traveled more than inches away from 
 dancing around the bonfire to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.
 
 Finally, we are now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from 
 almost comic studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats 
 and mice. Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in 
 moles, voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that mostly 
 fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news day, and 
 you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being slaughtered and 
 exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though that humans  have 
 hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a head to hang on the 
 wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop male sexual dysfunction, or 
 to carve into little statues or furniture (elephants) or just as a lovely 
 delicacy to eat at a way overpriced fancy restaurant. (shark fin soup and 
 other disgusting dishes). Sometimes it seems like humans will kill 
 everything from snails to whales for the most trivial or ridiculous reason. 
 However, just let it be known that cats kill mice and rats for a living and 
 you have panic in the streets. Ah well, time to get off my soap box and go 
 to bed.
 
  
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
 neighbors too!
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-04 Thread dlgegg
AMEN!  COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER.  I WOULD RATHER DEAL WITH AN ANIMAL, WILD 
OR TAME ANY DAY THAN HUMANS.  God never should have given us dominion over the 
world, we are not worthy of that position!


 Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Love it love it love it!!! You hit the nail on the head Lee, cats kill from 
 instinct and hunger. Humans  kill from ego. It makes me sick (what humans 
 do). We pulled up into the driveway last night and a bunny ran across. My 
 husband said to me, isn't it amazing how the cats don't seem to bother these 
 rabbits?  yes it's amazing! Humans are amazing. They come up with the most 
 wonderful ideas, like gestation crates, a lovely form of all sorts of 
 deprivation. What bothers me is that we think we have the RIGHT to do what we 
 do to other beings. OK, I'm done. Thanks for the email(-:
 
 Marcia
 
 Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 
 2010. 
 
 On Feb 3, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Alev alev_dur...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
  Lee,
  
  I couldnt agree more, thank you for this email, I will never stop talking 
  about animal rights to people,
  take care
  
  Sent from my iPhone
  
  On Feb 2, 2013, at 5:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
  There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it 
  comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a wonder 
  any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An acquaintance 
  of mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to have her 
  healthy FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it from cats. Meow? 
  My tenant, when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV was highly 
  contagious but FeLv was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this day refuse to 
  hug a person who is living with HIV but will shake hands with someone who 
  has a horrid head cold and get all chummy with people who are coughing all 
  over the air.
  
  Many veterinarians seem not to like cats to the point of finding reasons 
  to put them to death. Others are simply too lazy to study new theories of 
  medicine. In some cases, we have not traveled more than inches away from 
  dancing around the bonfire to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.
  
  Finally, we are now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from 
  almost comic studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats 
  and mice. Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss 
  in moles, voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that 
  mostly fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news 
  day, and you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being 
  slaughtered and exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though 
  that humans  have hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a 
  head to hang on the wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop male 
  sexual dysfunction, or to carve into little statues or furniture 
  (elephants) or just as a lovely delicacy to eat at a way overpriced fancy 
  restaurant. (shark fin soup and other disgusting dishes). Sometimes it 
  seems like humans will kill everything from snails to whales for the most 
  trivial or ridiculous reason. However, just let it be known that cats kill 
  mice and rats for a living and you have panic in the streets. Ah well, 
  time to get off my soap box and go to bed.
  
   
  Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
  neighbors too!
  
  ___
  Felvtalk mailing list
  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
  ___
  Felvtalk mailing list
  Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-04 Thread dlgegg
This is what I keep trying to tell people around here.  It seems their minds 
are completely closed on the subject, so I say let them get overrun by mice, 
etc.  My house is mice free thanks to my 65 girls and 1 boy, all of whom ae 
spayed/neutered.  I was over run with mice once when my cats were all too old 
to chase them anymore.  That ended when my new pride adopted me one by one.
And I live in the middle of the woods.
 Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 All these killer cat articles are a backlash against TNR. It's unfortunate 
 that some people are so mentally paralyzed that they don't realize that 
 spaying and neutering a cat (or dog) will stop the reproductive cycle. A 
 spayed cat is a spayed cat, one cat. An intact cat is a cat and then more and 
 more cats with each birth of kittens. I have spoken to people who say, Well 
 yes, but even if you spay the cat you still have a cat. Using this logic, any 
 time you have a quantity of individuals who are considered too many, 
 including human overpopulation you should look towards a solution that 
 involves killing the individuals, which instantly rids the area of the 
 unwanted human or non human but doesn't solve the long term problem of 
 overpopulation. Hitler tried this form of birth control, killing those 
 individuals that he thought were not valuable and should not reproduce. 
 Obviously, it didn't work too well. Any time killing is involved in population
  control, there will be people who will not go along with the program because 
 of issues like compassion and aversion to death.

Now here's a true study. There was a town in Arizona or Colorado (not sure 
which State) that did have a large number of free-roaming cats. They did trap 
them and kill them and were down to very few cats. Most of the remaining cats 
were kept inside. It was actually against the law to allow cats outside. Mother 
Nature hates to be tampered with. In a year, the town was overrun by rats and 
mice and crop eating small mammals. People were so upset that the City Council 
voted to import several hundred cats from shelters in surrounding towns so that 
they could rebuild their outside cat population.  It seems that in spite of the 
150 million estimate of cats and the billions of dead mice and rats and birds, 
we see no dearth of mice, rats and birds, including song birds. And yes, cats 
are an introduced species although the cat family of larger cats such as 
mountain lions, bob cats and others were here already when explorers arrived to 
settle this continent.
  There was a good reason why the cats came along. If they hadn't, the rats 
 and mice that infested the ships would have eaten the food supplies before 
 the ships could complete the journey. All that would have been left would 
 have been skeletons of starved to death settlers. 


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!






 From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others
 

Take heart: 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast



On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it 
comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a 
wonder any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An 
acquaintance of mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to 
have her healthy FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it 
from cats. Meow? My tenant, when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV 
was highly contagious but FeLv was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this 
day refuse to hug a person who is living with HIV but will shake hands 
with someone who has a horrid head cold and get all chummy with people 
who are coughing all over the air.

Many veterinarians seem not to
 like cats to the point of finding reasons to put them to death. Others 
are simply too lazy to study new theories of medicine. In some cases, we
 have not traveled more than inches away from dancing around the bonfire
 to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.

Finally, we are 
now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from almost comic 
studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats and mice. 
Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in moles,
 voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that mostly 
fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news day, 
and you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being 
slaughtered and exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though 
that humans  have hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a 
head to hang on the wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop 
male sexual dysfunction

Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-03 Thread Alev
Lee,

I couldnt agree more, thank you for this email, I will never stop talking about 
animal rights to people,
take care

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 2, 2013, at 5:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

 There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it comes 
 to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a wonder any of 
 us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An acquaintance of mine was 
 told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to have her healthy FIV+ cat 
 euthanized because humans can catch it from cats. Meow? My tenant, when I had 
 a rent house, insisted that FIV was highly contagious but FeLv was NOT. Tail 
 backwards. People to this day refuse to hug a person who is living with HIV 
 but will shake hands with someone who has a horrid head cold and get all 
 chummy with people who are coughing all over the air.
 
 Many veterinarians seem not to like cats to the point of finding reasons to 
 put them to death. Others are simply too lazy to study new theories of 
 medicine. In some cases, we have not traveled more than inches away from 
 dancing around the bonfire to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.
 
 Finally, we are now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from 
 almost comic studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats and 
 mice. Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in 
 moles, voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that mostly 
 fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news day, and 
 you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being slaughtered and 
 exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though that humans  have 
 hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a  head to hang on the 
 wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop male sexual dysfunction, or 
 to carve into little statues or furniture (elephants) or just as a lovely 
 delicacy to eat at a way overpriced fancy restaurant. (shark fin soup and 
 other disgusting dishes). Sometimes it seems like humans will kill everything 
 from snails to whales for the most trivial or ridiculous reason. However, 
 just let it be known that cats kill mice and rats for a living and you have 
 panic in the streets. Ah well, time to get off my soap box and go to bed.
 
  
 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
 neighbors too!
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] War on Cats and Others

2013-02-03 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves
Take heart:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast


On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:41 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:

 There is so much nonsense, mythology and prejudice going around when it
 comes to diseases in general, whether cat, dog or human that it's a wonder
 any of us survive the ignorance rather than the disease. An acquaintance of
 mine was told by a licensed veterinarian that she needed to have her
 healthy FIV+ cat euthanized because humans can catch it from cats. Meow? My
 tenant, when I had a rent house, insisted that FIV was highly contagious
 but FeLv was NOT. Tail backwards. People to this day refuse to hug a person
 who is living with HIV but will shake hands with someone who has a horrid
 head cold and get all chummy with people who are coughing all over the air.

 Many veterinarians seem not to like cats to the point of finding reasons
 to put them to death. Others are simply too lazy to study new theories of
 medicine. In some cases, we have not traveled more than inches away from
 dancing around the bonfire to banish evil spirits as a cure for illness.

 Finally, we are now being treated to amazingly inflated statistics from
 almost comic studies that produced the startling news that cats kill rats
 and mice. Who would have thought!! Not just some rats and mice  but toss in
 moles, voles and gophers, not to mention those things with wings that
 mostly fly.  Stir with a hefty dose of sensationalism due to a slow news
 day, and you come up with BILLIONS of small mammals and birds being
 slaughtered and exterminated by feral cats. Please don't mention though
 that humans  have hunted dozens of species to extinction just to have a
 head to hang on the wall or a rug for the floor, or as a way to stop male
 sexual dysfunction, or to carve into little statues or furniture
 (elephants) or just as a lovely delicacy to eat at a way overpriced fancy
 restaurant. (shark fin soup and other disgusting dishes). Sometimes it
 seems like humans will kill everything from snails to whales for the most
 trivial or ridiculous reason. However, just let it be known that cats kill
 mice and rats for a living and you have panic in the streets. Ah well, time
 to get off my soap box and go to bed.


 Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
 neighbors too!


 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org




-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster a bottle baby shelter animal, to save
their life.  Contact your local pound for information.
http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm

If you can't bottle feed, then foster an older animal, to save their life,
and to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% (and as high as 99%)
of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation. No Kill Quick Facts:
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=11718

Here's the current growing list of communities saving 90% or more of their
shelter intake: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar).

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' page for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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