To Bonnie and Kerry...Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Dear Friends: I'm wading thru a multitude of posts, and I know this is late in coming, but wanted to add a note from my experience. Bonnie, I know you've started the Epogen by now and all is well. I would have suggested that yes, you wait until you could watch Fu before starting. They can have severe adverse reactions, includingseizures and thrombotic events. I would NEVER advise anyone to START or NOT START Epogen, but I would recommend you do the research and know what the possible reactions are so that you are prepared. I also wanted to mention to Kerry that it sounds like Rascal was overdosed onTapazol. Tapazol shouldalways be started at a low dosewith dose adjustments only after T4 checks. Many vets start on a higher dose, or increase without checking T4 and that can lead to a very sick kitty. A good starting dose is 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet, once or twice a day. I've had 4 HyperT kitties and my current patient was regulated on his initial dose of just 2.5 mg/day. There are also two hyperT groups if you'd like to look into them. (I'm a member of both). Sending best wishes to all, Jo a day late and a dollar short, as usual. (If I can help in any way, I do pick up personal mail at this address daily:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ In a message dated 1/7/2006 9:22:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bandy didn't have any problems with the epogen, but he is 5 and no other problems...I don't know about the adverse reactions since he is 19.. I also gave tapazol to Little Rascal who is hyper t...and it made him sick so we stopped it...He is very thin, too..and has congestive heart failure...I have him on supplements and lasix..He is 16.. I hope the folic acid is working for Fu..I think it helped Bandy and I give it to Inky and Little Rascal, too.. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Fu.. Kerry, Bandy and Little Rascal
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Bonnie,Did you get on the hyper-t yahoo group yet? They are very knowledgeable with hyper-t, tapazole, and the effects of both on the kidneys, anemia, etc. They might have some ideas for you. Thinking of you and Fu.tonya[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:HI, Belinda. Yes, fluids do thin the blood and worsen the effects of anemia. They are still necessary sometimes, though, if they are not drinking, though if he has no kidney or liver problems and you are syringing food he probab-ly can do without fluids for a few days, I would think.Have you asked your vet about giving a dex shot? They really do make them feel better, often even if they are really really sick. The only time I have seen a dex shot not make them feel better is on the last day of life, when nothing helps. It is sort of a miracle drug, and the vet who taught me about it told me that most terminally ill humans are put on dex shots when they get into discomfort. I am not saying this because I think Bailey is dying or anything, just to explain how good dex is at making them feel better physically and psychologically. It also helps with anemia sometimes, depending on the cause.Here's hoping Bailey feels better really soon, MichelleIn a message dated 1/7/2006 10:07:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I haven't noticed any change, he stills sleeps ALL day, won't eat a bite and looks at me with that why are you doing this to me look. I'm wondering now if I shouldn't have stopped his fluids because I read somewhere that fluids also thin the blood out? I didn't give him fluids yesterday because he seems to be getting weaker and weaker even though he is getting fed, and he is getting plenty of fluids from the food I give him. I suppose it could be the anemia getting worse ... Time to weight him and have breakfast.
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Tonya, I don't think I'm on that one yet. The Epogen seems to have perked Fu up a little bit - I'm just hoping now that he'll make it through the next few days. Bonnie www.elephants.com - Original Message - From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, January 8, 2006 4:31 am Subject: Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Bonnie, Did you get on the hyper-t yahoo group yet? They are very knowledgeable with hyper-t, tapazole, and the effects of both on the kidneys, anemia, etc. They might have some ideas for you. Thinking of you and Fu. tonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI, Belinda. Yes, fluids do thin the blood and worsen the effects of anemia. They are still necessary sometimes, though, if they are not drinking, though if he has no kidney or liver problems and you are syringing food he probab-ly can do without fluids for a few days, I would think. Have you asked your vet about giving a dex shot? They really do make them feel better, often even if they are really really sick. The only time I have seen a dex shot not make them feel better is on the last day of life, when nothing helps. It is sort of a miracle drug, and the vet who taught me about it told me that most terminally ill humans are put on dex shots when they get into discomfort. I am not saying this because I think Bailey is dying or anything, just to explain how good dex is at making them feel better physically and psychologically. It also helps with anemia sometimes, depending on the cause. Here's hoping Bailey feels better really soon, Michelle In a message dated 1/7/2006 10:07:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I haven't noticed any change, he stills sleeps ALL day, won't eat a bite and looks at me with that why are you doing this to me look. I'm wondering now if I shouldn't have stopped his fluids because I read somewhere that fluids also thin the blood out? I didn't give him fluids yesterday because he seems to be getting weaker and weaker even though he is getting fed, and he is getting plenty of fluids from the food I give him. I suppose it could be the anemia getting worse ... Time to weight him and have breakfast.
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Hi Bonnie, I also have a 19 yr old...His name is Inky...He has been healthy his entire life and only been to the vet a few times...Oddly enough, he had 2 hematomas on the same ear that he had to have surgery for over the yrs...Other than that, all has been well until this past year...I think he has some hyper t going on or IBD not sure...He has a great appetite and still runs about the house...He can see and hear well, too...So I think instead of just trying to fix it myself without a vet or check up...I am going to take him to the vet in the next week or so...He has lost weight this past yr even though he has a great appetite...I think I should give him the chance, too...There might be an easy answer...So I agree with Michelle, you should give your Fu that chance as well...Bandy didn't have any problems with the epogen, but he is 5 and no other problems...I don't know about the adverse reactions since he is 19.. I also gave tapazol to Little Rascal who is hyper t...and it made him sick so we stopped it...He is very thin, too..and has congestive heart failure...I have him on supplements and lasix..He is 16.. I hope the folic acid is working for Fu..I think it helped Bandy and I give it to Inky and Little Rascal, too.. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Fu.. Kerry, Bandy and Little Rascal Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Hi Bonnie, I also got my epogen and made an appointment with my vet to discuss it to make sure I knew exactly how to do it. I also waited and gave it with enought time to run him to the vet if there was any kind of reaction. Antibodies wouldn't form that quickly but there is a rare chance of an allergic reaction or over production of red cells, can't remember the name my vet said, but both are rare. But like you I wanted to be cautious. Bailey was fine. I fed him at 4:00PM and gave him a hour to calm down then gave him his epo at 5PM. He did the same thing he does all day go lay down and sleep. I watched his breathing for about an hour and pestered him to make sure he looked OK, and all is well. He will get another dose Sunday and another Tuesday, then my vet wants to check his blood on Friday. I haven't noticed any change, he stills sleeps ALL day, won't eat a bite and looks at me with that why are you doing this to me look. I'm wondering now if I shouldn't have stopped his fluids because I read somewhere that fluids also thin the blood out? I didn't give him fluids yesterday because he seems to be getting weaker and weaker even though he is getting fed, and he is getting plenty of fluids from the food I give him. I suppose it could be the anemia getting worse ... Time to weight him and have breakfast. Prayers for Fu to perk up and come around, he is such a love. -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next? (on death and dying)
I know. Every time someone on the list has lymphoma or anemia, I think I need to get off the list because it depresses me so much. But I learn so much from the group, and it helped so much to have people there for me when I went through it with Simon, that I just can't. Michelle P.S. And I was saying to Nina, after being on the IBD group only a few days, I am appreciating this group even more. It is a very different experience. In a message dated 1/6/2006 11:37:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was just telling Kerry off-list that there are times when I feel I need a break from our loving group because each and every fur child's struggle effects me so deeply. The benefits so out weigh the pain, that I can't imagine leaving you. It's the same with our frail little angels, I would never trade knowing and loving them to spare the anguish of losing them.Much love to you all,Nina
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
HI, Belinda. Yes, fluids do thin the blood and worsen the effects of anemia. They are still necessary sometimes, though, if they are not drinking, though if he has no kidney or liver problems and you are syringing food he probably can do without fluids for a few days, I would think. Have you asked your vet about giving a dex shot? They really do make them feel better, often even if they are really really sick. The only time I have seen a dex shot not make them feel better is on the last day of life, when nothing helps. It is sort of a miracle drug, and the vet who taught me about it told me that most terminally ill humans are put on dex shots when they get into discomfort. I am not saying this because I think Bailey is dying or anything, just to explain how good dex is at making them feel better physically and psychologically. It also helps with anemia sometimes, depending on the cause. Here's hoping Bailey feels better really soon, Michelle In a message dated 1/7/2006 10:07:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I haven't noticed any change, he stills sleeps ALL day, won't eat a bite and looks at me with that why are you doing this to me look. I'm wondering now if I shouldn't have stopped his fluids because I read somewhere that fluids also thin the blood out? I didn't give him fluids yesterday because he seems to be getting weaker and weaker even though he is getting fed, and he is getting plenty of fluids from the food I give him. I suppose it could be the anemia getting worse ... Time to weight him and have breakfast.
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Hi Michelle, What is the full name dex, I will call and ask her about it, I can run down and pick it up if she OK's it? -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
Dexamethasone. It does come in pills, but the shots work faster and better in my opinion, though harder to keep them on long-term. The shots can be given sub-q, so if your vet will give you the shot you can give it to Fu yourself. It is possible she will only be willing to send you home with pills though, if you don't want to bring him in for a shot. Michelle In a message dated 1/7/2006 3:06:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, What is the full name dex, I will call and ask her about it, I can run down and pick it up if she OK's it?
Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
I picked up a vial of Epogen for Fu tonight. The vet explained how to give it to him over the phone and the pharmacist was also very nice and spent some time showing me how to go about it. My question is...is it possible for there to be an immediate bad reaction? If so, I'll wait until morning when I can rush him to the vet. The pharmacist said I could call her tonight for another half hour (until 10pm CST) or she'll be available all weekend. I'm a little fearful and am thinking I might wait for tomorrow morning, but my little old fellow is so weak. So now I'll go walk Jasmine, our Katrina orphan and check for replies when we get back. Bonnie Thanks for your kind thoughts of my 19 year-old with many ailments, Bonnie and the Foozer
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next?
I think, but am not positive, that it normally takes months for an adverse reaction to occur. But I would be afraid that any medicine could have an adverse reaction on Fu, given his age and condition. However, Epogen also takes a while to show any good effects, and Fu is already doing so poorly, that a part of me thinks you should just give it to him now. But maybe it is wise to wait until morning. Poor guy. But Bonnie, I hope you realize, even though it does not make this any easier to bear, that it is a miracle for Fu to live so long. He is like my friend Al, who died two years ago today a day short of his 98th birthday. I was with him on his last day, and I did not want him to go. But he was ready, and unafraid. He used to want to talk to me about death, as he felt ready and was very curious about what it would be like, and I was so freaked out at the thought of him dying that I could not talk about it and would tell him I did not think it was going to happen anytime soon. I wish now that I could have just dealt with it and talked to him about it, because he was ready and wanted to discuss it. I am not saying this because I think you ought to stop trying to make Fu better-- I am very aggressive in trying to make things better, and have always hated anyone saying that I should not try due to age or something like that (I almost punched the doctor when I took Al to the emergency room, three months before his death, and the doctor asked him if he wanted to be treated and, when Al said he did, commented that many people his age do not and are just ready to go!). I am just saying this because I think it is truly amazing that Fu has done as well as he has, that he has fought off so many conditions, and that you are incredible, absolutely incredible, for getting him this far. I used to think that seeing Percy get very old and die would be impossible to bear, having known her since I was 12. I used to be so fearful of losing her when I would see her at my parents'. But after adopting my positives and losing Josephine at 3 and Buddy at 1.5 years, I started looking at Percy with a sense of awe and gratitude that she had made it so far, and that she was going to die at the end of her life, the way things are supposed to be. I have been wanting to say something like this to you for a few days, but have had difficulty figuring out how to word it, because I do not want it to be taken as castigation in any way for your attempts to help Fu. While 19 is extremely old, I have heard of cats living into their 20's, and I think every cat should be given that chance. Michelle In a message dated 1/6/2006 10:28:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I picked up a vial of Epogen for Fu tonight. The vet explained how togive it to him over the phone and the pharmacist was also very nice andspent some time showing me how to go about it. My question is...is it possible for there to be an immediate badreaction? If so, I'll wait until morning when I can rush him to the vet.The pharmacist said I could call her tonight for another half hour(until 10pm CST) or she'll be available all weekend. I'm a littlefearful and am thinking I might wait for tomorrow morning, but my littleold fellow is so weak.So now I'll go walk Jasmine, our Katrina orphan and check for replieswhen we get back.Bonnie
Re: Have epogen for Fu - what to do next? (on death and dying)
Michelle, I think it was brave of you to put your thoughts into words and send them to Bonnie. It sometimes helps to have others comment on their own reactions to death and dying. Our western society is so intent on evading thoughts about death, let alone discussions about it. Thank you very much for sharing your experience with your elderly friend. It may give someone else the courage to discuss it with a loved one in similar circumstances. We were just talking about how special this list is, how sensitive to each other's needs and how supportive we are to each other. I think that comes from sharing the common bond of grief and our close proximity to death and disease. It certainly doesn't stop us from fighting with every fiber of our being to cheat it when we can, but it's become impossible for us to hide from death, and therefore we're more apt to face it and try to learn how to deal with it's inevitability in a more open manner. At least I know that is what has happened with me. I was just telling Kerry off-list that there are times when I feel I need a break from our loving group because each and every fur child's struggle effects me so deeply. The benefits so out weigh the pain, that I can't imagine leaving you. It's the same with our frail little angels, I would never trade knowing and loving them to spare the anguish of losing them. Much love to you all, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think, but am not positive, that it normally takes months for an adverse reaction to occur. But I would be afraid that any medicine could have an adverse reaction on Fu, given his age and condition. However, Epogen also takes a while to show any good effects, and Fu is already doing so poorly, that a part of me thinks you should just give it to him now. But maybe it is wise to wait until morning. Poor guy. But Bonnie, I hope you realize, even though it does not make this any easier to bear, that it is a miracle for Fu to live so long. He is like my friend Al, who died two years ago today a day short of his 98th birthday. I was with him on his last day, and I did not want him to go. But he was ready, and unafraid. He used to want to talk to me about death, as he felt ready and was very curious about what it would be like, and I was so freaked out at the thought of him dying that I could not talk about it and would tell him I did not think it was going to happen anytime soon. I wish now that I could have just dealt with it and talked to him about it, because he was ready and wanted to discuss it. I am not saying this because I think you ought to stop trying to make Fu better-- I am very aggressive in trying to make things better, and have always hated anyone saying that I should not try due to age or something like that (I almost punched the doctor when I took Al to the emergency room, three months before his death, and the doctor asked him if he wanted to be treated and, when Al said he did, commented that many people his age do not and are just ready to go!). I am just saying this because I think it is truly amazing that Fu has done as well as he has, that he has fought off so many conditions, and that you are incredible, absolutely incredible, for getting him this far. I used to think that seeing Percy get very old and die would be impossible to bear, having known her since I was 12. I used to be so fearful of losing her when I would see her at my parents'. But after adopting my positives and losing Josephine at 3 and Buddy at 1.5 years, I started looking at Percy with a sense of awe and gratitude that she had made it so far, and that she was going to die at the end of her life, the way things are supposed to be. I have been wanting to say something like this to you for a few days, but have had difficulty figuring out how to word it, because I do not want it to be taken as castigation in any way for your attempts to help Fu. While 19 is extremely old, I have heard of cats living into their 20's, and I think every cat should be given that chance. Michelle In a message dated 1/6/2006 10:28:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I picked up a vial of Epogen for Fu tonight. The vet explained how to give it to him over the phone and the pharmacist was also very nice and spent some time showing me how to go about it. My question is...is it possible for there to be an immediate bad reaction? If so, I'll wait until morning when I can rush him to the vet. The pharmacist said I could call her tonight for another half hour (until 10pm CST) or she'll be available all weekend. I'm a little fearful and am thinking I might wait for tomorrow morning, but my little old fellow is so weak. So now I'll go walk Jasmine, our Katrina orphan and check for replies when we get back. Bonnie
