RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
that call me and ask about him. But his original foster, and the lady who is I guess in charge and the bane of my existence and she's also on the board (sigh)- she doesn't even ask about him anymore! She had a teleph. convo with my holistic vet before I first talked to the vet about Brum where she actually told the vet, well you know, we're going to lose some of them and now my vet won't deal with her due to that comment (and rightfully so), b/c it's like, you pulled these kittens out of Metro AC in June and they have struggled ever since and Brumley's in the condition he's in, in part because of lack of care and attention by this group and so now, we're just going to play the numbers and let him linger on until death instead of getting the necessary vet care for a cat that we agreed to take on the minute he was pulled from Metro?!? I could scream. I'm so frustrated. I think I can take a picture of Brumley's eye tonight with my webcam and email it, so if anyone is willing to take a look at it, let me know so I can email it directly b/c this site won't take it if I try to send to all. I would really just like to hear someone say yeah, I've seen that before! when it comes to his eye- instead of these two vets who act like they have never seen it before and don't address the eye care directly... caroline Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:39:55 -0800From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-upTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Caroline, Bless you for taking care of these babies. You are truly going above and beyond and it sounds like you've found your calling. I hope you got conclusive yet good news for the sick kitten on Friday. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:39:08 PMSubject: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's the second time he's tested neg.- first at approx. 2 mths old, now at 6 mths). He NEGATIVE for FIV (which he had not yet been tested for ever). The vet also says that so far, it looks like it's not FIP and he talked about how there is no conclusive test, etc., so for now, he has to go by the presence of antibodies- which he says are usually higher if the cat has dry FIP and then even higher if it's wet FIP. He says the antibodies are just not high enough to for it to be FIP- either the dry or wet form. So he remains concerned tho that it's a an infectious (i.e., contagious) disease. What he is waiting on now is the toxoplasmosis test b/c now he is suspecting that. He said the results of that test will be in tomorrow. He also said the blood is showing high globulin levels and high white blood cells- both of which indicate some kind of an infection, but he just doesn't know what kind yet. I do have a phone consultation appointment tomorrow at 5:00 with the holistic vet (Marylyn-- Dr. Maier) who treated Monkee at the end of his life and whom Monkee loved- at a time when he was utterly miserable and fed up with vets! We are consulting on this kitten and then also to discuss general care of fosters and things I can do holistically to help them rehab faster. I may end up taking Yoda to her anyway b/c of the diarrhea that I can't get traditional vets to address. Hopefully, I will have the blood tests results on my sick kitten emailed to me before then, so I can forward them to her for her review and second opinion. I feel better because I am finally getting some freaking vets lined up so that I can finally take care of these fosters without always feeling like I'm supposed to do so without ever having veterinary access unless a cat is pretty much dying in my arms. Monkee died in my arms despite all the things we did to save him and there is NO WAY I'm going to allow another cat to die in my arms- especially these fosters who seem to have totally treatable (possibly preventable) things going on with them! Urg. So we continue to forge ahead.Poor kitty feels so much better and I'm worried about continuing to give him fluids. Dr. Maier said in an email that if he is doing that much better and has had 3 treatments of subcu fluids, it's probably not necessary to do them today. But when I talked to the conventional vet that saw the cat on Monday, he said to continue them b/c extra fluids are extra fluids, it can't really hurt him (I beg to differ- it's very traumatic b/c it's just me and him in a contest of wills and strength and it's pretty horrible- he gets that huge needle out everytime and I have to re-stick him-- which is hell for me and him), and without really seeing the cat
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Caroline -- I wish I could offer some advice or insight, but I can't. Just hopes that you can get a handle on what's going on with Brumley and that he feels better soon. Is there a way you can ask your mother to step back and stop repeating stuff you've already talked about? ;-) Sorry the situation is causing you such stress and anger and frustration. You are Brumley's angel, and have given him comfort and peace in his chaotic little life. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye-- like some kind of infection somewhere else in the body, but she doesn't know where. So she wanted me to stop his Clavamox and try some other immune boosting things. Again, my mom asked about the eye and should we be putting anything in it to treat it, and the Dr. was just like no. So of course, Brum was better just the next day (Tues.) and I could tell the fever broke. He was batting around a toy the very next morning. Still eating great. But then by Wed. night, he was just sleeping the whole time in a cubby hole, seemed to have a fever again and not playing (still eating tho). So I thought, well maybe his holistic vet is right, he is working on fighting off some infection and when it gets too hard for his body to fight it, he succumbs a little bit and the fever comes back, etc. So, this morning, it's the same. Lots of sleeping and fever still around. Even worse, his eye looks worse. I swear, it looks like the cavity or something is filled with blood b.c the eye appears to be a diff't color than the other and you can see that it looks like blood behind the eye. So now, it looks bloodier and as if the blood has settled down to the bottom of the eye more- like it pooled there. And now, there are even more cloudy/greyish white spots on the surface of the eyeball. Ugh. I'm worried. But my mom is worse-- she's a worry-wart prone to histrionics and having these two sick/down cats (Brum and Possum) with her around, literally sucks my will to live. She just wants to keep running Brumley
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Caroline, altho I unfortunately won't be able to offer any diagnostic suggestions myself, if you can send the pic to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can try forwarding it to more experienced people. I can well imagine how frustrated you must be. Thank goodness the little soul can rely on *you* for care and love. hugs, Kerry _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye-- like some kind of infection somewhere else in the body, but she doesn't know where. So she wanted me to stop his Clavamox and try some other immune boosting things. Again, my mom asked about the eye and should we be putting anything in it to treat it, and the Dr. was just like no. So of course, Brum was better just the next day (Tues.) and I could tell the fever broke. He was batting around a toy the very next morning. Still eating great. But then by Wed. night, he was just sleeping the whole time in a cubby hole, seemed to have a fever again and not playing (still eating tho). So I thought, well maybe his holistic vet is right, he is working on fighting off some infection and when it gets too hard for his body to fight it, he succumbs a little bit and the fever comes back, etc. So, this morning, it's the same. Lots of sleeping and fever still around. Even worse, his eye looks worse. I swear, it looks like the cavity or something is filled with blood b.c the eye appears to be a diff't color than the other and you can see that it looks like blood behind the eye. So now, it looks bloodier and as if the blood has settled down to the bottom of the eye more- like it pooled there. And now, there are even more cloudy/greyish white spots on the surface of the eyeball. Ugh. I'm worried. But my mom is worse-- she's a worry-wart prone to histrionics and having these two sick/down cats (Brum and Possum) with her around, literally sucks my will to live. She just wants to keep running Brumley to vets b/c she thinks he needs something put into the eyeball and then she asks me how long can this go on (meaning how long do we give Brumley a chance to fight
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Thanks- I will do so tonight when I get home. I did talk with the holistic vet again and she said when she saw the eye, she thought it reminded her of the scarring that can occur on a kitten's eye from reoccurring/untreated URI's-- all of which he did have, that came and went repeatedly, while the poor thing lingered in a condo and I just didn't get to him fast enough (b/c there were other kittens at the time languishing with things that seemed more serious that I needed to take in 1st). So, I understand now why she didn't think we needed to put anything in it- b/c she thought it was permanent damage (which is what I was hoping I would be in time to stop/prevent). She said if it was scarring like she initially thought, I wouldn't be seeing more cloudy spots. So she asked if he was having discharge and told me what to give him based on that. But he really doesn't have a discharge other than crusty brown that he has from both eyes (the healthy one too). He does not have green/yellow/white discharge, or even excessive brown discharge from this eye. So I asked her a follow-up ? based on that and I'm waiting to hear back. I have to give his eye a good look tonight and try to really determine if things have changed with it. He so squirmy with me right now. He looks like a sack of bones and yet, he's so strong when he wants to squirm away. And he definitely doesn't see me as his angel because he runs away from me everytime he sees me! He thinks of me as the treatment monster! caroline Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-upDate: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:32:43 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Caroline, altho I unfortunately won't be able to offer any diagnostic suggestions myself, if you can send the pic to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can try forwarding it to more experienced people. I can well imagine how frustrated you must be. Thank goodness the little soul can rely on *you* for care and love. hugs, Kerry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline KaufmannSent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:31 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Okay. I know that no one can diagnosis- but just to have people compare/contrast/confirm, that might be helpful. His Holistic vet seems to think it's scarring- permanent damage from untreated uri's- which I have never seen in a cat before. So if more experienced people that have seen that and can say one way or the other, it MIGHT* make me feel better (not about him having permanent eye damage :( , but more so that, yeah, it doesn't look like FIP)? ck Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:35:29 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-upCaroline,I am not a vet but if it will make you feel any better I'll look at it. On Jan 10, 2008 12:30 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye-- like some kind of infection somewhere else in the body, but she doesn't know where. So she wanted me to stop his Clavamox and try some other immune boosting things. Again, my mom asked about the eye and should we be putting anything in it to treat it, and the Dr. was just like no. So of course, Brum was better just the next day (Tues.) and I could tell the fever broke. He was batting around a toy the very next morning. Still eating great. But then by Wed. night, he was just sleeping the whole time in a cubby hole, seemed to have a fever again and not playing (still eating tho). So I thought, well maybe his holistic vet is right, he is working on fighting off some infection and when it gets too hard for his body to fight it, he succumbs a little bit and the fever comes back, etc. So, this morning, it's the same. Lots of sleeping and fever still around. Even worse, his eye looks worse. I swear, it looks like the cavity or something is filled with blood b.c the eye appears to be a diff't color than the other and you can see that it looks like blood behind the eye. So now, it looks bloodier and as if the blood has settled down to the bottom of the eye more- like it pooled there. And now, there are even more cloudy/greyish white spots on the surface of the eyeball. Ugh. I'm worried. But my mom is worse-- she's a worry-wart prone to histrionics and having these two sick/down cats (Brum and
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
I would be gladl to send the picture to my vet - my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:46 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Thanks- I will do so tonight when I get home. I did talk with the holistic vet again and she said when she saw the eye, she thought it reminded her of the scarring that can occur on a kitten's eye from reoccurring/untreated URI's-- all of which he did have, that came and went repeatedly, while the poor thing lingered in a condo and I just didn't get to him fast enough (b/c there were other kittens at the time languishing with things that seemed more serious that I needed to take in 1st). So, I understand now why she didn't think we needed to put anything in it- b/c she thought it was permanent damage (which is what I was hoping I would be in time to stop/prevent). She said if it was scarring like she initially thought, I wouldn't be seeing more cloudy spots. So she asked if he was having discharge and told me what to give him based on that. But he really doesn't have a discharge other than crusty brown that he has from both eyes (the healthy one too). He does not have green/yellow/white discharge, or even excessive brown discharge from this eye. So I asked her a follow-up ? based on that and I'm waiting to hear back. I have to give his eye a good look tonight and try to really determine if things have changed with it. He so squirmy with me right now. He looks like a sack of bones and yet, he's so strong when he wants to squirm away. And he definitely doesn't see me as his angel because he runs away from me everytime he sees me! He thinks of me as the treatment monster! caroline Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:32:43 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Caroline, altho I unfortunately won't be able to offer any diagnostic suggestions myself, if you can send the pic to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can try forwarding it to more experienced people. I can well imagine how frustrated you must be. Thank goodness the little soul can rely on *you* for care and love. hugs, Kerry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Ah, but you *are* his angel, whether he realizes or not. It's such a blessing this little furball met you, Caroline. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Thanks- I will do so tonight when I get home. I did talk with the holistic vet again and she said when she saw the eye, she thought it reminded her of the scarring that can occur on a kitten's eye from reoccurring/untreated URI's-- all of which he did have, that came and went repeatedly, while the poor thing lingered in a condo and I just didn't get to him fast enough (b/c there were other kittens at the time languishing with things that seemed more serious that I needed to take in 1st). So, I understand now why she didn't think we needed to put anything in it- b/c she thought it was permanent damage (which is what I was hoping I would be in time to stop/prevent). She said if it was scarring like she initially thought, I wouldn't be seeing more cloudy spots. So she asked if he was having discharge and told me what to give him based on that. But he really doesn't have a discharge other than crusty brown that he has from both eyes (the healthy one too). He does not have green/yellow/white discharge, or even excessive brown discharge from this eye. So I asked her a follow-up ? based on that and I'm waiting to hear back. I have to give his eye a good look tonight and try to really determine if things have changed with it. He so squirmy with me right now. He looks like a sack of bones and yet, he's so strong when he wants to squirm away. And he definitely doesn't see me as his angel because he runs away from me everytime he sees me! He thinks of me as the treatment monster! caroline _ Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:32:43 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Caroline, altho I unfortunately won't be able to offer any diagnostic suggestions myself, if you can send the pic to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can try forwarding it to more experienced people. I can well imagine how frustrated you must be. Thank goodness the little soul can rely on *you* for care and love. hugs, Kerry _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
They can also get permanent damage from ulcers ... did the vet do a corneal stain to see if the eye was ulcerated? On Jan 10, 2008 3:45 PM, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I have seen permanent damage from untreated (or even treated URIs). Clarissa, a white Persian in our rescue, has one eye that is almost entirely white. On Jan 10, 2008 3:41 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay. I know that no one can diagnosis- but just to have people compare/contrast/confirm, that might be helpful. His Holistic vet seems to think it's scarring- permanent damage from untreated uri's- which I have never seen in a cat before. So if more experienced people that have seen that and can say one way or the other, it MIGHT* make me feel better (not about him having permanent eye damage :( , but more so that, yeah, it doesn't look like FIP)? ck -- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:35:29 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Caroline, I am not a vet but if it will make you feel any better I'll look at it. On Jan 10, 2008 12:30 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. *The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye-- like some kind of infection somewhere else in the body, but she doesn't know where. *So she wanted me to stop his Clavamox and try some other immune boosting things. Again, my mom asked about the eye and should we be putting anything in it to treat it, and the Dr. was just like no. So of course, Brum was better just the next day (Tues.) and I could tell the fever broke. He was batting around a toy the very next morning. Still eating great. But then by Wed. night, he was just sleeping the whole time in a cubby hole, seemed to have a fever again and not playing (still eating tho). So I thought, well maybe his holistic vet is right, he is working on fighting off some infection and when it gets too hard for his body to fight it, he succumbs a little bit and the fever comes back, etc. So, this morning, it's the same. Lots of sleeping and fever
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Ask your holistic vet about a referral for yourself to someone who does people holistic medicine. You need a break. Re your motherthat is a mother thing. Trust me. If they can't find something to worry about they find something. I don't know who you have for a regular vet but Drs. Koehler and Bishop at Middletown Animal Clinic are the most open, honest, knowledgeable guys I know and, best of all, if they don't know they will tell you. Dixie Louise has them as her regular vets even though it is a 2 1/2 hour drive one way. I have known Dr. Koehler since (about) 1983, Dr. Bishop and he formed a partnership not to much longer. They have been wonderful with all my critters and I can't imagine life without themor without your holistic vet or Dr. Betty Boswell. If you are limited to regular vets because of Brumley's situation, try them. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:35 PM Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Caroline, I am not a vet but if it will make you feel any better I'll look at it. On Jan 10, 2008 12:30 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The saga continues with my sick cat Brumley. I don't know what to do any more. The conventional vet that saw him on Dec. 24 got the results back from the Toxoplasmosis test and is was neg. (I can't remember if I reported this info this site or not). So when the Toxo test came back neg, the vet totally reversed gears from the day before (when he said he didn't think it was FIP b/c Brumley only test pos. for high globulin and high protein, but not a corona virus, antibody, etc.). So he completely went back on that and said, basically, he thinks it's FIP b/c he has nothing else to go on and b/c Brumley is showing 2 of the 3 indicators of it (but still no wet indicators like the swollen belly). I think it's the eye that is really throwing him off and I can't for the love of god, get any vet to explain/diagnose/tell me what to with that eye. I have asked if I should be putting anything in it and both the conventional vet and my holistic vet just say no. So, I had a phone consult about Brumley with my holistic vet and she reviewed the blood work and said she doesn't think it's FIP- that a severely dehydrated cat will have high globulin and high protein in the blood panel. And the fact that is his neg. for corona- she just doesn't think it's FIP. She has of course treated FIP cats/kittens and had some herself and she told me she has NEVER seen the dry form of FIP in a kitten (Brum's 7 mths)-- only in older, adult cats does the dry form come out. She said she always sees it in kittens in the clear wet form with the swollen belly and other signs of fluid retention and then they die quickly. And Brum's been lingering on like this for a while now So, I just went about feeding him and making him comfy- moving him into the room with the other other guys (he'd already been exposed to them before I had him); stopped the subcu fluids b/c I didn't think he needs them. I guess it's been two weeks since then and he just kind of hangs out-- eats- he always eats good- no matter what. But about last week he seemed to lose some personality and he laid around a lot and stopped batting around toys. By this past Sun., my mom and I were discussing that he had gone down, down and we were worried. I don't have a thermometer for cats, but I could tell he had a fever and just felt crappy (altho he still eats and drinks water when feeling bad!). I gave him a fluid treatment- I thought his pink looked really white and thought it couldn't hurt. The fluid bump hung around forever tho? I got him in to see the holistic vet on Monday evening and my mom took him. The Dr. kind of laughed off my mom's concerns that Brumley was going to die and that his eye looked horrible. She told my mom she thinks he has something else going on besides the eye-- like some kind of infection somewhere else in the body, but she doesn't know where. So she wanted me to stop his Clavamox and try some other immune boosting things. Again, my mom asked about the eye and should we be putting anything in it to treat it, and the Dr. was just like no. So of course, Brum was better just the next day (Tues.) and I could tell the fever broke. He was batting around a toy the very next morning. Still eating great. But then by Wed. night, he was just sleeping the whole time in a cubby hole
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Caroline, we had a kitty with an apparent eye problem that the vet thought was a dental problem. I don't want to scare you...but wondering if the vet has ruled out cancer? Laurie
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Caroline, Bless you for taking care of these babies. You are truly going above and beyond and it sounds like you've found your calling. I hope you got conclusive yet good news for the sick kitten on Friday. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:39:08 PM Subject: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's the second time he's tested neg.- first at approx. 2 mths old, now at 6 mths). He NEGATIVE for FIV (which he had not yet been tested for ever). The vet also says that so far, it looks like it's not FIP and he talked about how there is no conclusive test, etc., so for now, he has to go by the presence of antibodies- which he says are usually higher if the cat has dry FIP and then even higher if it's wet FIP. He says the antibodies are just not high enough to for it to be FIP- either the dry or wet form. So he remains concerned tho that it's a an infectious (i.e., contagious) disease. What he is waiting on now is the toxoplasmosis test b/c now he is suspecting that. He said the results of that test will be in tomorrow. He also said the blood is showing high globulin levels and high white blood cells- both of which indicate some kind of an infection, but he just doesn't know what kind yet. I do have a phone consultation appointment tomorrow at 5:00 with the holistic vet (Marylyn-- Dr. Maier) who treated Monkee at the end of his life and whom Monkee loved- at a time when he was utterly miserable and fed up with vets! We are consulting on this kitten and then also to discuss general care of fosters and things I can do holistically to help them rehab faster. I may end up taking Yoda to her anyway b/c of the diarrhea that I can't get traditional vets to address. Hopefully, I will have the blood tests results on my sick kitten emailed to me before then, so I can forward them to her for her review and second opinion. I feel better because I am finally getting some freaking vets lined up so that I can finally take care of these fosters without always feeling like I'm supposed to do so without ever having veterinary access unless a cat is pretty much dying in my arms. Monkee died in my arms despite all the things we did to save him and there is NO WAY I'm going to allow another cat to die in my arms- especially these fosters who seem to have totally treatable (possibly preventable) things going on with them! Urg. So we continue to forge ahead. Poor kitty feels so much better and I'm worried about continuing to give him fluids. Dr. Maier said in an email that if he is doing that much better and has had 3 treatments of subcu fluids, it's probably not necessary to do them today. But when I talked to the conventional vet that saw the cat on Monday, he said to continue them b/c extra fluids are extra fluids, it can't really hurt him (I beg to differ- it's very traumatic b/c it's just me and him in a contest of wills and strength and it's pretty horrible- he gets that huge needle out everytime and I have to re-stick him-- which is hell for me and him), and without really seeing the cat, he can't tell me to discontinue fluids. Well, my mom and I have discussed it and I'm doing them tonight. It's too much on him and me. He's feeling too good now so that he really fights the fluid giving. I always recall that Dr. Maier- in all her holistic wisdom- said (when I first took Monkee to her), that you don't want the treatment to be worse than the disease. I think that solves my dilemma for now. Caroline The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
During our phone consult, she mentioned about a ton of homeopathic remedies. I have them written down in my cat binder at home. Some for the eyes to help with the URIs and tear stains, etc. I know she mentioned Thuja a lot. She reccomended a book that Washington Homeopathic Products (Homeopathyworks.com) sells regarding homeopathic treatment for cats and that I should consider ordering the animal rescue kit for cats to have on hand. I did order both the book and the kit on Friday, so am not buying any homeopathic treatments at this time- waiting on my kit. It should have all the things she mentioned during our consult. After my appt. Sat. with Possum, everyone is now getting the week treatment of Wrm Clear. She says this kills just about everything- that it will get tapeworms (interesting...) and also cocidia, maybe even giardia. It just makes the gut so inhospitable, that both parasites and bacteria can't continue to live there. This is mainly for Yoda- to see if it helps clear up his diarrhea b/c Dr. Maier thinks something might be hanging around in there. Also, since I've had Possum over a month and he eats wonderfully, and we've now gone through 1 1/2 tubes of nutrical, she asked if he's gotten any bigger and I said only longer. Like he's grown longer, but still isn't the size he should be for his age (6 mths-- Yoda puts him to shame body-wise). So she wanted Possum to get a treatment of wrm clear to make sure he doesn't have a tapeworm or something hanging around (I haven't seen any segments tho- and believe me, I look for those things...ewww!). I'm also treating everyone with whatever the name of the homeopathic rem is for over-vaccination. And colostrum- Dr. Maier gave me some. I ran out forever ago and started using Just Born instead, then ran out of that, and due to expenses and just plain forgetfullness, forgot to get more. Dr. Maier says the only kind to use in the New Zealand Bovine so I'll probably just get it from her for now on. By the way, she set me up to get things from her for treatment of my fosters so that the group I vol for will pay for it...she rocks! I got the wrm clear, triple antibiotic eye ointment (she says not to use terramycin- which I have been shying away from anyway b/c I have noted it seems to cause eye irritation in my cats- guess I was right), tobramycin eye drops, the one homeopathic rem for vaccinations, a bottle of colostrum, and a spray bottle of cat nap-- all so that I didn't have to pay (which is really only fair b/c these are fosters and I'm breaking myself paying for premium foods, crates, bowls, ferret hammocks, and even litter sometimes). I did have to pay for the Possum office visit- which was fine b/c her rates are so freaking reasonable, but b/c I am a foster, she gave me a percent discount. So I finally just feel better all around- no longer like I am out there alone on a raft with all these special needs cats that technically don't belong to me b/c they are fosters- attempting to care for them without the assistance- when necessary- of a discounted vet/vet period! Ensuring my psychologcial well-being in the situation I am in is obviously really important too. And feeling I was expected to do this, sans vet care, was NOT working for me. And admittedly, I was out of town Sun. night through Tues. evening, so I didn't have tons of time to observe the Possum, post-Dr. visit, but already there's been even more improvement. He just seems even more perky! Last night and this morning, he's just a wide-eyed, perky little thing. He may still be adoptable yet! Given another month with me, he may be 85% almost normal! And he's the best little bed sleeper (he's so teeny and gentle- he sleeps curled in my arms or up partially on my pillow and we have these little love fests in the morning while my snooze alarm goes off)- he'd make such a great buddy for someone who wants a gentle (i.e. not a high energy maniac of kitten), lovey dovey bed buddy! Caroline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-upDate: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:56:28 -0600 What did Dr. Maier say about supplements? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Unasked for advise: I know you know this but I have to repeat it. Be very careful when you are close to the face of a feral/barn/alley/unknown cat. I had a very small cat bite and break a finger costing me two surgeries, the possibility of losing part of the finger etc. I was at the ER and being treated within 15 minutes of the bite and seeing the wonderful surgeons at U of L's Hand Clinic in less than 24 hours so lack of attention was not an issue. No need to be afraid but be alert to sight/flight signs in the cats. You are going to be bitten and scratched. That is part of the game. And yes, I snuggle mine and still deal with ferals/strays/throw-alwaysthose little ones who need a kind word and kind hand. Again, you are doing great. Now set up a law practice dedicated to animals. : If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Marylyn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up What did Dr. Maier say about supplements? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All but Possum sleep in the condo- which is set up by the front window- at night). But we did keep him in a separate crate in the room until the vet visit last monday, and that vet said to isolate him, so poor kitty and his crate went to the basement. I felt horrible, but we are just currently running out of rooms. So, he was stuck down there all alone and since he wasn't with me in my room, I wasn't able to see what he does. He spent most of his time down there crying crying crying (broke my heart) and knocking over his coop cup of water and food in his desperate attempts to reach thru the crate. It was horrible, I know, but our basement doesn't have a real door- it's a folding levelor blind-like door and every cat, save for the teeny barn kittens, have made short shrift of it! Anyway, per Dr. Maier's advice- after she told me her analysis of the blood tests (she doesn't think it's FIP (she said severe dehydration will cause high protein and high globulin in the blood- also, he didn't test pos. for any corona virus, so I don't see how the conventional vet can say FIP???). She thinks it's just very very very bad malnourishment/dehydration, infection from chronic URIs setting in, stress, etc). So, I moved him into my room on Sat., per her okay and recc that it would be better for him. Since he and Possum are both special needs, slow (which incidentally makes them really good kitties b/c they don't have the energy to be bad!), both recovering from what is hopefully only malnourishment, etc., they both stay out in the room/sleep with me on the bed at night (they are both such good little boys)! So I finally saw him drink water and it's all at once, wonderful and hilarious! He drinks voraciously (as voraciously as he eats his wet food- well, he's into the crunchies too, but the wet food eating it funnier b/c he smacks him lips and gobbles and just makes all these snarfling noises while eating- and gets it all over his nose- like he never tasted anything so good!). So the water drinking is similar-- very loud, very intense, and when he looks up, he has it all over his chin and nose! So, I am no longer concerned about water drinking. I add a lot of water to his wet food too and he doesn't seem to mind. He's not dehydrated anymore either. He still looks like an old man cat to me tho- which is sad because he's only 6 months. Sigh. He looks like what my 19 yo Rambo looked like his last year of life. He really bounced back after just coming to my house, getting fluids and the shot of penicillin, but he seems to have leveled off now. We'll see...I really hope it's not dry FIP. I just can't go through that. Tackling this malnourishment and weakened state has been hard
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
(oh, it's been a long year already... i know what you MEANT, marylyn, but i have this image in my head of all these cats and dogs lining up at caroline's door, as CLIENTS. really, she SWORE she was spayed! well, yeah, i DID bite him, but you would have too!. and them paying her in rawhide bones and enormous bags of primo catnip) MC On Jan 1, 2008 8:12 AM, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unasked for advise: I know you know this but I have to repeat it. Be very careful when you are close to the face of a feral/barn/alley/unknown cat. I had a very small cat bite and break a finger costing me two surgeries, the possibility of losing part of the finger etc. I was at the ER and being treated within 15 minutes of the bite and seeing the wonderful surgeons at U of L's Hand Clinic in less than 24 hours so lack of attention was not an issue. No need to be afraid but be alert to sight/flight signs in the cats. You are going to be bitten and scratched. That is part of the game. And yes, I snuggle mine and still deal with ferals/strays/throw-alwaysthose little ones who need a kind word and kind hand. Again, you are doing great. Now set up a law practice dedicated to animals. : If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - *From:* Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, December 31, 2007 6:56 PM *Subject:* Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up What did Dr. Maier say about supplements? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - *From:* Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, December 31, 2007 6:45 PM *Subject:* RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All but Possum sleep in the condo- which is set up by the front window- at night). But we did keep him in a separate crate in the room until the vet visit last monday, and that vet said to isolate him, so poor kitty and his crate went to the basement. I felt horrible, but we are just currently running out of rooms. So, he was stuck down there all alone and since he wasn't with me in my room, I wasn't able to see what he does. He spent most of his time down there crying crying crying (broke my heart) and knocking over his coop cup of water and food in his desperate attempts to reach thru the crate. It was horrible, I know, but our basement doesn't have a real door- it's a folding levelor blind-like door and every cat, save for the teeny barn kittens, have made short shrift of it! Anyway, per Dr. Maier's advice- after she told me her analysis of the blood tests (she doesn't think it's FIP (she said severe dehydration will cause high protein and high globulin in the blood- also, he didn't test pos. for any corona virus, so I don't see how the conventional vet can say FIP???). She thinks it's just very very very bad malnourishment/dehydration, infection from chronic URIs setting in, stress, etc). So, I moved him into my room on Sat., per her okay and recc that it would be better for him. Since he and Possum are both special needs, slow (which incidentally makes them really good kitties b/c they don't have the energy to be bad!), both recovering from what is hopefully only malnourishment, etc., they both stay out in the room/sleep with me on the bed at night (they are both such good little boys)! So I finally saw him drink water and it's all at once, wonderful and hilarious! He drinks voraciously (as voraciously as he eats his wet food- well, he's into the crunchies too, but the wet food eating it funnier b/c he smacks him lips and gobbles and just makes all these snarfling noises while eating- and gets it all over his nose- like he never tasted anything so good!). So the water drinking is similar-- very loud, very intense, and when he looks up, he has it all over his chin and nose! So, I am no longer concerned about water drinking. I add a lot of water to his wet food too and he doesn't seem to mind. He's not dehydrated anymore either. He still looks
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
aw, sounds like you're exactly what this little one needed to help bring him around! to answer your question about how/why a conventional vet could even consider FIP in a cat who doesn't have a positive FeCoV titre, two options: 1) the titre is useless, as has been mentioned before, as it reflects EXPOSURE to the virus--numbers vary on how long it takes the average cat to process the virus out and stop shedding, so a cat who has mutated the virus into FIP after a stressor may have exposed quite awhile before and thus be negative. while i cat with a very high titres, and no other indicators, may just have been hanging out with a lot of kitties who are shedding the virus. so if all the other symptoms of FIP are there, a titre just doesn't matter 2) the titre is useless, but too many vets just don't get that yet. and antech labs, who SWEAR that their test can differentiate between the strains of FeCoV and therefore it DOES test for FIP rather than the virus push that VERY HARD. they do not mention that no outside researchers have been able to replicate their results, and no one actually working in FIP believes there is, yet, a way to predict which strain will mutate. there is a really simple test -- and cheap -- that any vet can do in their office, with grocery-store ingredients. right now i can't remember (anything) the name of the test, which i'd never heard of before; also, the IFA, so well-known to us from dealing with FeLV, is now being used to help diagnose FIP. again, i don't remember the details--but they are in the petsmart charities program on FIP that i've mentioned before. (i'm in the middle of some major legal stuff of my own right now, and as my friends on the list know, i'm barely answering mail)--so i can't go digging for the link right now. (instead, i'm digging through 5 hard drives for old emails, IMs and chat logs from 2000 on!) MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Or lots of mice, nice juicy mice. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: MaryChristine To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up (oh, it's been a long year already... i know what you MEANT, marylyn, but i have this image in my head of all these cats and dogs lining up at caroline's door, as CLIENTS. really, she SWORE she was spayed! well, yeah, i DID bite him, but you would have too!. and them paying her in rawhide bones and enormous bags of primo catnip) MC On Jan 1, 2008 8:12 AM, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unasked for advise: I know you know this but I have to repeat it. Be very careful when you are close to the face of a feral/barn/alley/unknown cat. I had a very small cat bite and break a finger costing me two surgeries, the possibility of losing part of the finger etc. I was at the ER and being treated within 15 minutes of the bite and seeing the wonderful surgeons at U of L's Hand Clinic in less than 24 hours so lack of attention was not an issue. No need to be afraid but be alert to sight/flight signs in the cats. You are going to be bitten and scratched. That is part of the game. And yes, I snuggle mine and still deal with ferals/strays/throw-alwaysthose little ones who need a kind word and kind hand. Again, you are doing great. Now set up a law practice dedicated to animals. : If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Marylyn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up What did Dr. Maier say about supplements? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All but Possum sleep in the condo- which is set up by the front window- at night). But we did keep him in a separate crate in the room until the vet visit last monday, and that vet said to isolate him, so poor kitty and his crate went to the basement. I felt horrible, but we are just currently running out of rooms. So, he was stuck down there all alone and since he wasn't with me in my room, I wasn't able to see what he does. He spent most of his time down there crying crying crying (broke my heart) and knocking over his coop cup of water and food in his desperate attempts to reach thru the crate. It was horrible, I know, but our basement doesn't have a real door- it's a folding levelor blind-like door and every cat, save for the teeny barn kittens, have made short shrift of it! Anyway, per Dr. Maier's advice- after she told me her analysis of the blood tests (she doesn't think it's FIP (she said severe dehydration will cause high protein and high globulin in the blood- also, he didn't test pos. for any corona virus, so I don't see how the conventional vet can say FIP???). She thinks it's just very very very bad malnourishment/dehydration, infection from chronic URIs setting in, stress, etc). So, I moved him into my room on Sat., per her okay and recc that it would be better for him. Since he and Possum are both special needs, slow (which incidentally makes them really good kitties b/c they don't have the energy to be bad!), both recovering from what is hopefully only malnourishment, etc., they both stay out in the room/sleep with me on the bed at night (they are both such good
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All but Possum sleep in the condo- which is set up by the front window- at night). But we did keep him in a separate crate in the room until the vet visit last monday, and that vet said to isolate him, so poor kitty and his crate went to the basement. I felt horrible, but we are just currently running out of rooms. So, he was stuck down there all alone and since he wasn't with me in my room, I wasn't able to see what he does. He spent most of his time down there crying crying crying (broke my heart) and knocking over his coop cup of water and food in his desperate attempts to reach thru the crate. It was horrible, I know, but our basement doesn't have a real door- it's a folding levelor blind-like door and every cat, save for the teeny barn kittens, have made short shrift of it! Anyway, per Dr. Maier's advice- after she told me her analysis of the blood tests (she doesn't think it's FIP (she said severe dehydration will cause high protein and high globulin in the blood- also, he didn't test pos. for any corona virus, so I don't see how the conventional vet can say FIP???). She thinks it's just very very very bad malnourishment/dehydration, infection from chronic URIs setting in, stress, etc). So, I moved him into my room on Sat., per her okay and recc that it would be better for him. Since he and Possum are both special needs, slow (which incidentally makes them really good kitties b/c they don't have the energy to be bad!), both recovering from what is hopefully only malnourishment, etc., they both stay out in the room/sleep with me on the bed at night (they are both such good little boys)! So I finally saw him drink water and it's all at once, wonderful and hilarious! He drinks voraciously (as voraciously as he eats his wet food- well, he's into the crunchies too, but the wet food eating it funnier b/c he smacks him lips and gobbles and just makes all these snarfling noises while eating- and gets it all over his nose- like he never tasted anything so good!). So the water drinking is similar-- very loud, very intense, and when he looks up, he has it all over his chin and nose! So, I am no longer concerned about water drinking. I add a lot of water to his wet food too and he doesn't seem to mind. He's not dehydrated anymore either. He still looks like an old man cat to me tho- which is sad because he's only 6 months. Sigh. He looks like what my 19 yo Rambo looked like his last year of life. He really bounced back after just coming to my house, getting fluids and the shot of penicillin, but he seems to have leveled off now. We'll see...I really hope it's not dry FIP. I just can't go through that. Tackling this malnourishment and weakened state has been hard enough... caroline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-upDate: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:38:57 -0600 Try dripping water or a water fountain. Ebony loved to drink from the faucet. I like the fountain better because the water can be filtered. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up I have never seen him drink water, so I am not sure. But he's been urinating a lot- of course that could be from the fluids. He was dehydrated on Monday, but he bounced back so much after the shot of Penicillin and one bought of subcu fluids- it was really remarkable. And of course, the vet isn't able to see that. Since I have never seen him drink water, I have been adding water and KMR to his wet food- just to make sure to get some extra in. He eats almost all of his food up, so he's certainly getting moisture that way.caroline Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:47:47 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up That is great news, that everything is negative. Is he drinking normally? Is he dehydrated? If he is not dehydratedI would not see any need for fluids (but I'm not a vet, this is not to be construed as veterinary advice, yadda yadda) Kelley On Dec 27, 2007 8:39 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
What did Dr. Maier say about supplements? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Well, I think I just never saw him drink b/c I had him only from last sat. night until monday in my bedroom with my other cats (I have two large rooms connected- so they have tons of space. All but Possum sleep in the condo- which is set up by the front window- at night). But we did keep him in a separate crate in the room until the vet visit last monday, and that vet said to isolate him, so poor kitty and his crate went to the basement. I felt horrible, but we are just currently running out of rooms. So, he was stuck down there all alone and since he wasn't with me in my room, I wasn't able to see what he does. He spent most of his time down there crying crying crying (broke my heart) and knocking over his coop cup of water and food in his desperate attempts to reach thru the crate. It was horrible, I know, but our basement doesn't have a real door- it's a folding levelor blind-like door and every cat, save for the teeny barn kittens, have made short shrift of it! Anyway, per Dr. Maier's advice- after she told me her analysis of the blood tests (she doesn't think it's FIP (she said severe dehydration will cause high protein and high globulin in the blood- also, he didn't test pos. for any corona virus, so I don't see how the conventional vet can say FIP???). She thinks it's just very very very bad malnourishment/dehydration, infection from chronic URIs setting in, stress, etc). So, I moved him into my room on Sat., per her okay and recc that it would be better for him. Since he and Possum are both special needs, slow (which incidentally makes them really good kitties b/c they don't have the energy to be bad!), both recovering from what is hopefully only malnourishment, etc., they both stay out in the room/sleep with me on the bed at night (they are both such good little boys)! So I finally saw him drink water and it's all at once, wonderful and hilarious! He drinks voraciously (as voraciously as he eats his wet food- well, he's into the crunchies too, but the wet food eating it funnier b/c he smacks him lips and gobbles and just makes all these snarfling noises while eating- and gets it all over his nose- like he never tasted anything so good!). So the water drinking is similar-- very loud, very intense, and when he looks up, he has it all over his chin and nose! So, I am no longer concerned about water drinking. I add a lot of water to his wet food too and he doesn't seem to mind. He's not dehydrated anymore either. He still looks like an old man cat to me tho- which is sad because he's only 6 months. Sigh. He looks like what my 19 yo Rambo looked like his last year of life. He really bounced back after just coming to my house, getting fluids and the shot of penicillin, but he seems to have leveled off now. We'll see...I really hope it's not dry FIP. I just can't go through that. Tackling this malnourishment and weakened state has been hard enough... caroline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:38:57 -0600 Try dripping water or a water fountain. Ebony loved to drink from the faucet. I like the fountain better because the water can be filtered. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up I have never seen him drink water, so I am not sure. But he's been urinating a lot- of course that could be from the fluids. He was dehydrated on Monday, but he bounced back so much after the shot of Penicillin and one bought of subcu fluids- it was really remarkable. And of course, the vet isn't able to see that. Since I have never seen him drink water, I have been adding
OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's the second time he's tested neg.- first at approx. 2 mths old, now at 6 mths). He NEGATIVE for FIV (which he had not yet been tested for ever). The vet also says that so far, it looks like it's not FIP and he talked about how there is no conclusive test, etc., so for now, he has to go by the presence of antibodies- which he says are usually higher if the cat has dry FIP and then even higher if it's wet FIP. He says the antibodies are just not high enough to for it to be FIP- either the dry or wet form. So he remains concerned tho that it's a an infectious (i.e., contagious) disease. What he is waiting on now is the toxoplasmosis test b/c now he is suspecting that. He said the results of that test will be in tomorrow. He also said the blood is showing high globulin levels and high white blood cells- both of which indicate some kind of an infection, but he just doesn't know what kind yet. I do have a phone consultation appointment tomorrow at 5:00 with the holistic vet (Marylyn-- Dr. Maier) who treated Monkee at the end of his life and whom Monkee loved- at a time when he was utterly miserable and fed up with vets! We are consulting on this kitten and then also to discuss general care of fosters and things I can do holistically to help them rehab faster. I may end up taking Yoda to her anyway b/c of the diarrhea that I can't get traditional vets to address. Hopefully, I will have the blood tests results on my sick kitten emailed to me before then, so I can forward them to her for her review and second opinion. I feel better because I am finally getting some freaking vets lined up so that I can finally take care of these fosters without always feeling like I'm supposed to do so without ever having veterinary access unless a cat is pretty much dying in my arms. Monkee died in my arms despite all the things we did to save him and there is NO WAY I'm going to allow another cat to die in my arms- especially these fosters who seem to have totally treatable (possibly preventable) things going on with them! Urg. So we continue to forge ahead. Poor kitty feels so much better and I'm worried about continuing to give him fluids. Dr. Maier said in an email that if he is doing that much better and has had 3 treatments of subcu fluids, it's probably not necessary to do them today. But when I talked to the conventional vet that saw the cat on Monday, he said to continue them b/c extra fluids are extra fluids, it can't really hurt him (I beg to differ- it's very traumatic b/c it's just me and him in a contest of wills and strength and it's pretty horrible- he gets that huge needle out everytime and I have to re-stick him-- which is hell for me and him), and without really seeing the cat, he can't tell me to discontinue fluids. Well, my mom and I have discussed it and I'm doing them tonight. It's too much on him and me. He's feeling too good now so that he really fights the fluid giving. I always recall that Dr. Maier- in all her holistic wisdom- said (when I first took Monkee to her), that you don't want the treatment to be worse than the disease. I think that solves my dilemma for now. Caroline _ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
That is great news, that everything is negative. Is he drinking normally? Is he dehydrated? If he is not dehydratedI would not see any need for fluids (but I'm not a vet, this is not to be construed as veterinary advice, yadda yadda) Kelley On Dec 27, 2007 8:39 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's the second time he's tested neg.- first at approx. 2 mths old, now at 6 mths). He NEGATIVE for FIV (which he had not yet been tested for ever). The vet also says that so far, it looks like it's not FIP and he talked about how there is no conclusive test, etc., so for now, he has to go by the presence of antibodies- which he says are usually higher if the cat has dry FIP and then even higher if it's wet FIP. He says the antibodies are just not high enough to for it to be FIP- either the dry or wet form. So he remains concerned tho that it's a an infectious (i.e., contagious) disease. *What he is waiting on now is the toxoplasmosis test b/c now he is suspecting that.* He said the results of that test will be in tomorrow. He also said the blood is showing high globulin levels and high white blood cells- both of which indicate some kind of an infection, but he just doesn't know what kind yet. I do have a phone consultation appointment tomorrow at 5:00 with the holistic vet (Marylyn-- Dr. Maier) who treated Monkee at the end of his life and whom Monkee loved- at a time when he was utterly miserable and fed up with vets! We are consulting on this kitten and then also to discuss general care of fosters and things I can do holistically to help them rehab faster. I may end up taking Yoda to her anyway b/c of the diarrhea that I can't get traditional vets to address. Hopefully, I will have the blood tests results on my sick kitten emailed to me before then, so I can forward them to her for her review and second opinion. I feel better because I am finally getting some freaking vets lined up so that I can finally take care of these fosters without always feeling like I'm supposed to do so without ever having veterinary access unless a cat is pretty much dying in my arms. Monkee died in my arms despite all the things we did to save him and there is NO WAY I'm going to allow another cat to die in my arms- especially these fosters who seem to have totally treatable (possibly preventable) things going on with them! Urg. So we continue to forge ahead. Poor kitty feels so much better and I'm worried about continuing to give him fluids. Dr. Maier said in an email that if he is doing that much better and has had 3 treatments of subcu fluids, it's probably not necessary to do them today. But when I talked to the conventional vet that saw the cat on Monday, he said to continue them b/c extra fluids are extra fluids, it can't really hurt him (I beg to differ- it's very traumatic b/c it's just me and him in a contest of wills and strength and it's pretty horrible- he gets that huge needle out everytime and I have to re-stick him-- which is hell for me and him), and without really seeing the cat, he can't tell me to discontinue fluids. Well, my mom and I have discussed it and I'm doing them tonight. It's too much on him and me. He's feeling too good now so that he really fights the fluid giving. I always recall that Dr. Maier- in all her holistic wisdom- said (when I first took Monkee to her), that you don't want the treatment to be worse than the disease. I think that solves my dilemma for now. Caroline -- The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help Clarissa! http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
I have never seen him drink water, so I am not sure. But he's been urinating a lot- of course that could be from the fluids. He was dehydrated on Monday, but he bounced back so much after the shot of Penicillin and one bought of subcu fluids- it was really remarkable. And of course, the vet isn't able to see that. Since I have never seen him drink water, I have been adding water and KMR to his wet food- just to make sure to get some extra in. He eats almost all of his food up, so he's certainly getting moisture that way. caroline Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:47:47 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up That is great news, that everything is negative. Is he drinking normally? Is he dehydrated? If he is not dehydratedI would not see any need for fluids (but I'm not a vet, this is not to be construed as veterinary advice, yadda yadda) Kelley On Dec 27, 2007 8:39 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, the results are not all in, but I finally talked to the Vet about the blood tests from the sick kitten I took in- which he suspect FIP in. The cat was NEGATIVE for Felv (so that's the second time he's tested neg.- first at approx. 2 mths old, now at 6 mths). He NEGATIVE for FIV (which he had not yet been tested for ever). The vet also says that so far, it looks like it's not FIP and he talked about how there is no conclusive test, etc., so for now, he has to go by the presence of antibodies- which he says are usually higher if the cat has dry FIP and then even higher if it's wet FIP. He says the antibodies are just not high enough to for it to be FIP- either the dry or wet form. So he remains concerned tho that it's a an infectious ( i.e., contagious) disease. What he is waiting on now is the toxoplasmosis test b/c now he is suspecting that. He said the results of that test will be in tomorrow. He also said the blood is showing high globulin levels and high white blood cells- both of which indicate some kind of an infection, but he just doesn't know what kind yet. I do have a phone consultation appointment tomorrow at 5:00 with the holistic vet (Marylyn-- Dr. Maier) who treated Monkee at the end of his life and whom Monkee loved- at a time when he was utterly miserable and fed up with vets! We are consulting on this kitten and then also to discuss general care of fosters and things I can do holistically to help them rehab faster. I may end up taking Yoda to her anyway b/c of the diarrhea that I can't get traditional vets to address. Hopefully, I will have the blood tests results on my sick kitten emailed to me before then, so I can forward them to her for her review and second opinion. I feel better because I am finally getting some freaking vets lined up so that I can finally take care of these fosters without always feeling like I'm supposed to do so without ever having veterinary access unless a cat is pretty much dying in my arms. Monkee died in my arms despite all the things we did to save him and there is NO WAY I'm going to allow another cat to die in my arms- especially these fosters who seem to have totally treatable (possibly preventable) things going on with them! Urg. So we continue to forge ahead. Poor kitty feels so much better and I'm worried about continuing to give him fluids. Dr. Maier said in an email that if he is doing that much better and has had 3 treatments of subcu fluids, it's probably not necessary to do them today. But when I talked to the conventional vet that saw the cat on Monday, he said to continue them b/c extra fluids are extra fluids, it can't really hurt him (I beg to differ- it's very traumatic b/c it's just me and him in a contest of wills and strength and it's pretty horrible- he gets that huge needle out everytime and I have to re-stick him-- which is hell for me and him), and without really seeing the cat, he can't tell me to discontinue fluids. Well, my mom and I have discussed it and I'm doing them tonight. It's too much on him and me. He's feeling too good now so that he really fights the fluid giving. I always recall that Dr. Maier- in all her holistic wisdom- said (when I first took Monkee to her), that you don't want the treatment to be worse than the disease. I think that solves my dilemma for now. Caroline The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now!-- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties*Please help Clarissa!http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart _ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Caroline, Fred gets fluids everyday and I bet your vet gave you those monster size 18 gauge needles called kitty harpoons on the CRF site. You can order size 20 gauge terumo needles from http://thrivingpets.com/products/item-detail.php?formStockId=392N1, I order Fred's here. They are very sharp and a whole lot smaller than the kitty harpoons, most cats tolerate them very well, since they are very sharp they go in very nicely. It does take a bit longer for the fluids to go through but since it doesn't hurt Fred is fine with it. Fred was a terror when we started fluids, he would bite me, he has been getting them for about a year and a half now and is doing really well. The thing about dehydration is a cat that is dehyrdrated feels pretty crappy, it's equivalent to having a horrible hang over. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
I like the 20 gauge also..but that is what my vet always gave me... On Dec 27, 2007 8:56 PM, Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caroline, Fred gets fluids everyday and I bet your vet gave you those monster size 18 gauge needles called kitty harpoons on the CRF site. You can order size 20 gauge terumo needles from http://thrivingpets.com/products/item-detail.php?formStockId=392N1, I order Fred's here. They are very sharp and a whole lot smaller than the kitty harpoons, most cats tolerate them very well, since they are very sharp they go in very nicely. It does take a bit longer for the fluids to go through but since it doesn't hurt Fred is fine with it. Fred was a terror when we started fluids, he would bite me, he has been getting them for about a year and a half now and is doing really well. The thing about dehydration is a cat that is dehyrdrated feels pretty crappy, it's equivalent to having a horrible hang over. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com http://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help Clarissa! http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart
RE: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Okay, that helps a lot. Yeah, you could tell he felt pretty crappy on Monday when he saw the vet. I knew that, the techs knew that, the vet knew that, the cat knew that! But he really rallied so much the very next day and he no longer feels crappy. It's more behavioral now where he's pissed about being segregated in his pitiful crate in the downstairs and he knows there's buddies upstairs to play with and he's NOT happy about it. But physically, he looks so much better. His coat is already smoother and shiny and just feels so much better-- it's really kind of freaky. I will order some of those needles because I am NOT doing it with that horrible needle anymore. I was telling people about it (people who don't do this work) and I'm like, you don't understand my pain! b/c this needle is huge! When I had to give Monkee his subcu epogen, it was with this teeny tiny little needle and that little beefcake- even being as sick as he was- didn't even feel it. But this needle is horrible. It pains me to stick him with it. And he manages to get his back leg up and pull it out with a foot (and I know he knows exactly what he's doing!) and then we have to start over again...so I'm not putting us through that tonight. I think we will both be better off... caroline Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:56:02 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up Caroline, Fred gets fluids everyday and I bet your vet gave you those monster size 18 gauge needles called kitty harpoons on the CRF site. You can order size 20 gauge terumo needles from http://thrivingpets.com/products/item-detail.php?formStockId=392N1, I order Fred's here. They are very sharp and a whole lot smaller than the kitty harpoons, most cats tolerate them very well, since they are very sharp they go in very nicely. It does take a bit longer for the fluids to go through but since it doesn't hurt Fred is fine with it. Fred was a terror when we started fluids, he would bite me, he has been getting them for about a year and a half now and is doing really well. The thing about dehydration is a cat that is dehyrdrated feels pretty crappy, it's equivalent to having a horrible hang over. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com _ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
Re: OT: sick 6 mo kitten follow-up
Smart vet I've always gotten the 18 and they are pretty huge compared tot the 20's!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
