Re: OT - Zack (explanation of my situation)
Phaewryn, You shouldn't feel that you have to justify or defend your decisions to this group or to anyone else. Goodness knows you have done much more for this cat and so many others than anyone else would have.You can only do so much and shouldn't berate yourself for reaching your capacity - it stinks that the capacity has to be based on money but that's reality. It sounds like you have an uphill battle ahead of you and you need to gather yourstrength to go forward. I wish you the best in the upcoming months. Maggie -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well his OWNERS were going to kill him JUST for being FIV+, before I offered his LAST CHANCE to come here to join the FERAL colony OUTSIDE. I am happy to try the medication, a list member (bless you!) is sending me a trial of her cat's prozac to try on Zack, if it works, great, but I can't guarantee I'll be able to afford it long term. I WELCOME DONATIONS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP. I am getting custody of my VERY troubled son on the 18th, and he requires therapy, prescription drugs, counseling, special education, and constant supervision (he is 12, has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old, severe ADD, behavior issues, is under the care of a psychiatrist, and is failing miserably in school). I have no insurance, and may not qualify for state coverage for my son due to my income (and I work about 50 hours a week, so where I will find the time for this is beyond me - adding to my stress). I may have to QUIT one of my jobs in order to qualify for state assistance, and have eno ugh time to raise my son. I can find the time to pill Zack every day (somehow), the problem is affording the medication. I still owe about $1400 for the last 5 year's income taxes, I have to pay $650 rent every month, and we ALL have to eat. The check engine light keeps coming on in my car, I just had to buy tires ($194), as the olds ones were unsafe, and my registration ($80) is due by the end of the month. I have to BUILD a wall to create a bedroom so all household members will have some extent of privacy. That's estimated at about $150.I still don't have a BED for my son to sleep on. If anyone would be willing to SPONSOR Zack, I would be very happy to put him on medication that might help his aggression. If I do NOT find a cure for him, TWELVE or more OTHER cats may FREEZE to DEATH this winter, as Zack will not allow them to access the insulated shelter. Personally, I think it's more responsible to euthanize ONE cat HUMANELY than to let TWELVE others FREEZE to death. That is where I am at. I can't afford to put another cat on an expensive prescription drug at this time (Mythic's is already $35 a month). Normally, in this situation, I would get offline, and work MORE, like 60 hours a week, and catch up, but I NEED to be home with my son now, so I'm totally lost as to how I'm going to accomplish all of this. The only reason I'm on here tonight is because my boss from my second job called me at dinner time and asked me to NOT come into work tonight. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need!
Re: OT - Zack (explanation of my situation)
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well his OWNERS were going to kill him JUST for being FIV+, before I offered his LAST CHANCE to come here to join the FERAL colony OUTSIDE. I am happy to try the medication, a list member (bless you!) is sending me a trial of her cat's prozac to try on Zack, if it works, great, but I can't guarantee I'll be able to afford it long term. I WELCOME DONATIONS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP. I am getting custody of my VERY troubled son on the 18th, and he requires therapy, prescription drugs, counseling, special education, and constant supervision (he is 12, has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old, severe ADD, behavior issues, is under the care of a psychiatrist, and is failing miserably in school). I have no insurance, and may not qualify for state coverage for my son due to my income (and I work about 50 hours a week, so where I will find the time for this is beyond me - adding to my stress). I may have to QUIT one of my jobs in order to qualify for state assistance, and have eno ugh time to raise my son. I can find the time to pill Zack every day (somehow), the problem is affording the medication. I still owe about $1400 for the last 5 year's income taxes, I have to pay $650 rent every month, and we ALL have to eat. The check engine light keeps coming on in my car, I just had to buy tires ($194), as the olds ones were unsafe, and my registration ($80) is due by the end of the month. I have to BUILD a wall to create a bedroom so all household members will have some extent of privacy. That's estimated at about $150.I still don't have a BED for my son to sleep on. If anyone would be willing to SPONSOR Zack, I would be very happy to put him on medication that might help his aggression. If I do NOT find a cure for him, TWELVE or more OTHER cats may FREEZE to DEATH this winter, as Zack will not allow them to access the insulated shelter. Personally, I think it's more responsible to euthanize ONE cat HUMANELY than to let TWELVE others FREEZE to death. That is where I am at. I can't afford to put another cat on an expensive prescription drug at this time (Mythic's is already $35 a month). Normally, in this situation, I would get offline, and work MORE, like 60 hours a week, and catch up, but I NEED to be home with my son now, so I'm totally lost as to how I'm going to accomplish all of this. The only reason I'm on here tonight is because my boss from my second job called me at dinner time and asked me to NOT come into work tonight. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program: http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more! It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! Hi Phaewryn, I'm so sorry for your frustration. If the medication does work, are you open to trying to find sponsors for him through the Internet? If you have a Paypal account, you can make a sponsor page for him with pictures and his story and ask people to sponsor him for (x) dollars a month (whatever his medication costs). I would be happy to help you do this if you don't know how, and be happy to post the link on some other cat boards I am on. This is just a suggestion. I hope it will be helpful to you. Please let us know if the medication works. I will make a donation for one month's supply of medication, if the medication works.-- Vist the Austin Siamese Rescue store and save a kitty life! http://www.cafepress.com/austinsiamesehttp://astore.amazon.com/austinsiamese-20
Re: OT - Zack
Well me personally, I'd rather be caged than dead, as long as your alive there is hope and a chance, not saying I'd like it but when your dead .. Did you ever get my email about medication, it really is a very good choice for some cats, Cody being one. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT - Zack
I know cats have territorial issues, but I think at the very least Zack should have the option of changing his thinking or dying. You could have a communicator talk to him. I think cats should be allowed to be cats. Who am I to try to go against their very nature by trying to make them co-inhabit the same territory? If cats were allowed to be cats, they wouldn't be domesticated, we made them that way and sometimes they have to learn things that are foreign to them in order to fit into the life we forced them to accept long, long ago. Cody still sprays in the house, he is much better and has periods where it picks up, when him and Fred and KC have a issue going on. For now I deal with it, but he knows if it gets to an unacceptable level, he will go back on the medication. He tries and is much, much better than when he got here, and I don't fool myself thinking it will ever completely stop, but I know it is the way he is wired, that and how his early life went. He knows the rules and how much I'll put up with, when I get to my breaking point he knows and he stops for a while. He is better, because he does most of the time tolerate Joey, he didn't tolerate anyone before, but he tries to push Fred and Fred ain't having it. KC puts him in line once in a while and he hates that, but him and Fred have the biggest issue, and it's not Fred always picking on him, they go back and forth. When it gets unusually stressed between them he gets me, but he knows just how long to wait so for now we deal with it but he knows that can change at any moment. I'm not saying any of this to be argumentative, I just can't agree and stay quiet about killing an animal because of a behavioral problem. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT - Zack
This is what Cody was getting kitty Prozac for, it worked very well. It is called Fluoxetine, we tried others first, Amitriptyline, there was another but I can't remember the name, they all worked to some extent, but the Fluoxetine was what finally completely stopped the spraying. I never seem to be able to get in and out of the vet's office for under $100. Do you think it would eliminate the spraying issue too? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Kitty Prozac (was OT - Zack
Peepers gets 5 mg of prozac daily. Emailed this infoo to Phaeryn off-list but wanted to share it with the group. We stopped ordering the prozac through my vet and started ordering online. I buy the generic 20 mg tablets and cut into quarters. This gives me a 400 day supply for $42.Go to http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?name=prozacbysearch=ok I have ordered various meds from this web site without a prescription on multiple ocassions and they are very very reliable. Takes 10-14 days to get your order though because they are based in Thailand.BTW, Fluoxetine is simply the generic name for Prozac. Kitty prozac and people prozac is the same medication. Only the dosage is different.And, uh, it does seem to work for spraying and inappropriate urination (the center of my bed on a daily basis is the height of "inappropriate"). I have a one-year old foster boy, neutered but with strong alpha tendencies, who started peeing on my bed and my roommate's clothes when the last group of foster kittens arrived. Last night was day three of his prozac andknock on wood...all is good.Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is what Cody was getting kitty Prozac for, it worked very well. It is called Fluoxetine, we tried others first, Amitriptyline, there was another but I can't remember the name, they all worked to some extent, but the Fluoxetine was what finally completely stopped the spraying. I never seem to be able to get in and out of the vet's office for under $100. Do you think it would eliminate the spraying issue too?-- Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT - Zack (explanation of my situation)
Well his OWNERS were going to kill him JUST for being FIV+, before I offered his LAST CHANCE to come here to join the FERAL colony OUTSIDE. I am happy to try the medication, a list member (bless you!) is sending me a trial of her cat's prozac to try on Zack, if it works, great, but I can't guarantee I'll be able to afford it long term. I WELCOME DONATIONS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP. I am getting custody of my VERY troubled son on the 18th, and he requires therapy, prescription drugs, counseling, special education, and constant supervision (he is 12, has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old, severe ADD, behavior issues, is under the care of a psychiatrist, and is failing miserably in school). I have no insurance, and may not qualify for state coverage for my son due to my income (and I work about 50 hours a week, so where I will find the time for this is beyond me - adding to my stress). I may have to QUIT one of my jobs in order to qualify for state assistance, and have enough time to raise my son. I can find the time to pill Zack every day (somehow), the problem is affording the medication. I still owe about $1400 for the last 5 year's income taxes, I have to pay $650 rent every month, and we ALL have to eat. The check engine light keeps coming on in my car, I just had to buy tires ($194), as the olds ones were unsafe, and my registration ($80) is due by the end of the month. I have to BUILD a wall to create a bedroom so all household members will have some extent of privacy. That's estimated at about $150.I still don't have a BED for my son to sleep on. If anyone would be willing to SPONSOR Zack, I would be very happy to put him on medication that might help his aggression. If I do NOT find a cure for him, TWELVE or more OTHER cats may FREEZE to DEATH this winter, as Zack will not allow them to access the insulated shelter. Personally, I think it's more responsible to euthanize ONE cat HUMANELY than to let TWELVE others FREEZE to death. That is where I am at. I can't afford to put another cat on an expensive prescription drug at this time (Mythic's is already $35 a month). Normally, in this situation, I would get offline, and work MORE, like 60 hours a week, and catch up, but I NEED to be home with my son now, so I'm totally lost as to how I'm going to accomplish all of this. The only reason I'm on here tonight is because my boss from my second job called me at dinner time and asked me to NOT come into work tonight. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 9/5/2006
Re: OT - Zack (amitriptyline - belinda)
Amitriptyline!? Really, what was the cat dosage for that? I get that already for myself, and it's only $9.00 a 30 day bottle! I wonder if that MIGHT help Zack's aggression? I could afford that... Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 9/5/2006
Re: OT - Zack
Hi Nina, If you can find a good balance they really aren't sedated, Cody is pretty laid back and very lazy anyway. I did notice he was what I thought at the time sleeping a little more, but I'm not so sure now that that was 100% true. He sleeps a lot now, and if he isn't sleeping he is laying around doing nothing. He's pretty lazy and I guess that could have something to do with him being a tad overweight:) -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
OT - Zack
Phaewryn, I feel for you with your dilemma with Zack. I have a traumatized kitty, I may have mentioned her, (Matilda), the thought of euthanasia has crossed my mind with her too. If it truly comes to that with Zack, couldn't you cage him and cover his cage at night? The fence fighting might go on for a few nights, even covered, but I can't imagine that it would go on forever. If you think of it as saving his life, it might be worth the upheaval and it might just help him see that it's possible that not everyone is out to get him. After all, we all know you can be sick in mind as well as body. I know you'd cage him if he were sick in body. It would also allow your outside ferals to get to their food and shelter. If the worst happens, (knowing you, I don't think it will), he'll already be contained and bringing him to the vet will be less traumatic for all concerned. What ever happened with that favorite feral you had relocated to your house? The one that went missing. Did he/she ever show back up? I know how upsetting it is to only be able to do so much for them and always wonder what happened :( [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, no, I don't have a garage or anywhere Zack can be put for the winter. I live in a three room apartment, and there's just no way to separate in a place this small, plus, if he's around other cats he sprays really bad. He doesn't spray unless there's other cats' scents he has to mark over. I keep hoping someone will come through for him, but it's looking really bleak. I can't even cage him inside, as he fights with all the cats through the cage bars so bad that it would keep us awake all night. Phaewryn
Re: OT - Zack
Something else to consider, which I have done on rare ocassion with good results, is psychiatric medication. One of my own cats iss on Prozac due to brain abnormalities most likely the result of her mother being starved during pregnancy. I'll skip the long story but my vet put Peepers on prozac about 18 months ago. She was so hyper-defensive and aggressive that I did consider having her euthanized. The prozac was a last resort and for Peepers has literally saved her life. Peepers is on it for life but twice we have had foster cats who were horroble/dangerous with other cats and put them on it temporarily out of desperation while they acclimated to a multi-cat environment and until other arrangements could be made. It helped a great deal. Talk to your vet about something along these lines. (Someone I know gets Elavil in a salve that can be rubbed inside a cat's ear. Another possibility)Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phaewryn,I feel for you with your dilemma with Zack. I have a traumatized kitty, I may have mentioned her, (Matilda), the thought of euthanasia has crossed my mind with her too. If it truly comes to that with Zack, couldn't you cage him and cover his cage at night? The "fence fighting" might go on for a few nights, even covered, but I can't imagine that it would go on forever. If you think of it as saving his life, it might be worth the upheaval and it might just help him see that it's possible that not everyone is out to get him. After all, we all know you can be sick in mind as well as body. I know you'd cage him if he were sick in body. It would also allow your outside ferals to get to their food and shelter. If the worst happens, (knowing you, I don't think it will), he'll already be contained and bringing him to the vet will be less traumatic for all concerned.What ever happened with that "favorite" feral you had relocated to your house? The one that went missing. Did he/she ever show back up? I know how upsetting it is to only be able to do so much for them and always wonder what happened :([EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, no, I don't have a garage or anywhere Zack can be put for the winter. I live in a three room apartment, and there's just no way to separate in a place this small, plus, if he's around other cats he sprays really bad. He doesn't spray unless there's other cats' scents he has to mark over. I keep hoping someone will come through for him, but it's looking really bleak. I can't even cage him inside, as he fights with all the cats through the cage bars so bad that it would keep us awake all night. Phaewryn
Re: OT - Zack
Something else to consider, which I have done on rare ocassion with good results, is psychiatric medication. One of my own cats iss on Prozac due to brain abnormalities most likely the result of her mother being starved during pregnancy. I'll skip the long story but my vet put Peepers on prozac about 18 months ago. She was so hyper-defensive and aggressive that I did consider having her euthanized. The prozac was a last resort and for Peepers has literally saved her life. Peepers is on it for life but twice we have had foster cats who were horroble/dangerous with other cats and put them on it temporarily out of desperation while they acclimated to a multi-cat environment and until other arrangements could be made. It helped a great deal. Talk to your vet about something along these lines. (Someone I know gets Elavil in a salve that can be rubbed inside a cat's ear. Another possibility)Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phaewryn,I feel for you with your dilemma with Zack. I have a traumatized kitty, I may have mentioned her, (Matilda), the thought of euthanasia has crossed my mind with her too. If it truly comes to that with Zack, couldn't you cage him and cover his cage at night? The "fence fighting" might go on for a few nights, even covered, but I can't imagine that it would go on forever. If you think of it as saving his life, it might be worth the upheaval and it might just help him see that it's possible that not everyone is out to get him. After all, we all know you can be sick in mind as well as body. I know you'd cage him if he were sick in body. It would also allow your outside ferals to get to their food and shelter. If the worst happens, (knowing you, I don't think it will), he'll already be contained and bringing him to the vet will be less traumatic for all concerned.What ever happened with that "favorite" feral you had relocated to your house? The one that went missing. Did he/she ever show back up? I know how upsetting it is to only be able to do so much for them and always wonder what happened :([EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, no, I don't have a garage or anywhere Zack can be put for the winter. I live in a three room apartment, and there's just no way to separate in a place this small, plus, if he's around other cats he sprays really bad. He doesn't spray unless there's other cats' scents he has to mark over. I keep hoping someone will come through for him, but it's looking really bleak. I can't even cage him inside, as he fights with all the cats through the cage bars so bad that it would keep us awake all night. Phaewryn
Re: OT - Zack
Hi Susan, I've started to seriously consider pharmaceutical help for my psycho kitty Matilda. (A good start would be for me to stop calling her psycho kitty :) ). It will be a last resort and I have to do some research on it. Someone else mentioned Clomacalm (sp?). Have you ever heard of it? I detest the idea of having an animal that has to be segregated for the rest of their life, just a little more than the thought of keeping someone sedated. I keep telling myself, never say never. Patience, patience, patience! Nina Susan Hoffman wrote: Something else to consider, which I have done on rare ocassion with good results, is psychiatric medication. One of my own cats iss on Prozac due to brain abnormalities most likely the result of her mother being starved during pregnancy. I'll skip the long story but my vet put Peepers on prozac about 18 months ago. She was so hyper-defensive and aggressive that I did consider having her euthanized. The prozac was a last resort and for Peepers has literally saved her life. Peepers is on it for life but twice we have had foster cats who were horroble/dangerous with other cats and put them on it temporarily out of desperation while they acclimated to a multi-cat environment and until other arrangements could be made. It helped a great deal. Talk to your vet about something along these lines. (Someone I know gets Elavil in a salve that can be rubbed inside a cat's ear. Another possibility)
Re: OT - Zack
For Peepers, Prozac is not a sedative. It effects serotonin levels in the brain. Her's are haywire anyway. I think of it like lithium given to someone who is bipolar, replacing something that should have been there to start with.Great book on psycho-kitties and their treatment: The Cat Who Cried for Help: Attitudes, Emotions, and the Psychology of Cats, by Nicholas Dodman (http://tinyurl.com/hj4lu)Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan,I've started to seriously consider pharmaceutical help for my psycho kitty Matilda. (A good start would be for me to stop calling her "psycho kitty" :) ). It will be a last resort and I have to do some research on it. Someone else mentioned Clomacalm (sp?). Have you ever heard of it? I detest the idea of having an animal that has to be segregated for the rest of their life, just a little more than the thought of keeping someone sedated. I keep telling myself, "never say never". Patience, patience, patience!NinaSusan Hoffman wrote: Something else to consider, which I have done on rare ocassion with good results, is psychiatric medication. One of my own cats iss on Prozac due to brain abnormalities most likely the result of her mother being starved during pregnancy. I'll skip the long story but my vet put Peepers on prozac about 18 months ago. She was so hyper-defensive and aggressive that I did consider having her euthanized. The prozac was a last resort and for Peepers has literally saved her life. Peepers is on it for life but twice we have had foster cats who were horroble/dangerous with other cats and put them on it temporarily out of desperation while they acclimated to a multi-cat environment and until other arrangements could be made. It helped a great deal. Talk to your vet about something along these lines. (Someone I know gets Elavil in a salve that can be rubbed inside a cat's ear. Another possibility)
Re: OT - Zack
Mackenziewas my favorite feral. I see him once a month or so, Zack scares them all away most of the time. I do know he's alive, but that's about all I know. Him and Spooky (the bw FIV+ male) seem to have buddied up, as they appear together when they come. Hopefully that brings them the safety of numbers, at least. Rusty is now my new favorite, but only because he's the only one determined enough to refuse to be run off by Zack, much to Zack's disappointment. They fight constantly, but he refuses to give up his space (the back yard). Zack owns the porch and the road, Rusty owns the backyard. It's still up to debate daily though. Right now, I do have the cage mostly covered, as I do HAVE to bring Zack inside for storms, as he freaks out when there's any thunder at all. My main issue is my dominant male housecat, Doobie. He harasses Zack, Zack harasses back. Even if I cover the entire cage with a blanket, and only leave a little front of it uncovered, they will fight through the bars. I've considered buying some Plexiglas, and making a custom cage cover to go over it, with small bore holes drilled throughout the glass for ventilation. That would at least stop the physical contact, BUT, it wouldn't stop the endless "G,RRR,YEOW,HAK,SKTPF,YOW,KERTCH,HA,SHHH,GR!" that is the constant result of Zack and Doobie being within earshot of each other. (I'm sure I couldn't afford the materials though, anyways) I also have no doors in the apartment, other than the one that closes off the bedroom from the livingroom or kitchen, and the one from the bedroom to the bathroom, so even if I put Doobie in the bedroom area, we can't get any sleep, as he will dig at the door for hours on end trying to dig his way into the room he's locked out of. All of this because someone lied to me about Zack to begin with, told me he was friendly. He was supposed to come here as his last chance, to join the feral colony. Instead, he harasses the feral colony so bad that they would rather starve to death than come here to eat (I can only assume that's the fate of the cats I have not seen in months). It is still, and always will be, my opinion that euthanasia is far kinder than any prolonged period in a cage. I will NOT cage Zack all winter, which would be more than half the year here (7-8 months of temperatures below freezing at night, and at least 3 months of temperatures below freezing day and night). He was a very much loved housecat, and even having him live outside is not nice to him, all of his life, he slept on the bed, and snuggled on the sofa, until he came here, were he was thrown out, and never gets more than a pat in passing. This life is just NOT fair to Zack, and as much as I hate to do it, I will euthanise him once it gets cold if no home is found. Zack deserves to be a loved part of a family, like he was before, not locked in a cage. Try it for yourself. Do something illegal, and get put in jail for 3 months. I think you'll have a different opinion of cage life afterwards.In our society it seems that the worst punishment we can come up with for our most rotten members of society is caging them. Yet we do it to animals all the time, innocent animals, who did nothing to deserve to be punished. What a hypocrisy we live in. It really saddens me. The fact that so many of us don't even associate the word "cage" with it's true meaning is the worst part. We've let ourselves become numb to term. Most of us, when we hear the word cage, we think of cute kittens, reaching out through the bars, or an animal in intensive care at the vet's clinic, where the cage protects them and keeps them still and quiet. Yet, the very basic principal of the word cage SHOULD invoke a dire sense of loss of freedom. We should envision prisoners of war, old style zoos, where big cats paced back and forth in a 8x8 cage with sterile walls. A cage shouldn't be anything positive in our minds, it should invoke a deep sense of LOSS. You wouldn't (and can't legally) lock your child in his room for days on end, yet we have no second thoughts on doing it to the animals we "save" everyday. Save from what, It makes you think. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil, as they say in politics. Really sad, in my opinion. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus
Re: OT - Zack
The problem is two dominate males in one territory. It's just unnatural. I'd rather have one normal, well adjusted dominant male cat in the house (Doobie), than two drugged into submission males (and I would have to drug them both, as they are equally aggressive to each other). Ithink cats should be allowed to be cats. Who am I to try to go against their very nature by trying to make them co-inhabit the same territory? I'm very much into feline psychology, and I don't think that mood altering drug use is the proper way to deal with a cats natural instincts. I think that method of making life easier for the humans involved is not in the best interests of the cats (on a very deep emotional level). You have to understand, I NEVER agreed that Zack would be an indoor cat to the people who brought him here. I have repeatedly contacted them telling them that Zack is not fitting in (with the feral colony), and they refuse solve their problem that brought him here to begin with (not finding living quarters that allows pets) and come take him back home. Zack was obviously a disposable member of their family. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
Re: OT - Zack
Try craigslist. Ask for a foster or foster-to-adopt situation. Be honest that he needs an only-cat home butsing his praises -- handsome, great with dogs, etc. -- too. Plan on delivering to his new home so you can do a home inspection at the same time. Require a vet reference. Ask a $20 adoption fee. The combination of home visit, vet reference, and small adoption fee will get rid of 98% of the weirdos. If your craigslist is busy like the one in the Bay Area, list a couple of days a week, like Tuesday and Thursday, so the ad stays fresh. Persist! Use EVERY available resource. There's a home out there somewhere. You just have to find it. (I've had seniors, special needs cats, and cats who were awful with other cats too. I'm not a fuzzy-kitten rescue. So I know this is not easy. But it is not impossible.)Give craigslist a shot, twice a week. And any local newspaper with a classified section. What's the worst that can happen? You turn people down 'cause something doesn't feel right? Give it a try.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mackenziewas my favorite feral. I see him once a month or so, Zack scares them all away most of the time. I do know he's alive, but that's about all I know. Him and Spooky (the bw FIV+ male) seem to have buddied up, as they appear together when they come. Hopefully that brings them the safety of numbers, at least. Rusty is now my new favorite, but only because he's the only one determined enough to refuse to be run off by Zack, much to Zack's disappointment. They fight constantly, but he refuses to give up his space (the back yard). Zack owns the porch and the road, Rusty owns the backyard. It's still up to debate daily though. Right now, I do have the cage mostly covered, as I do HAVE to bring Zack inside for storms, as he freaks out when there's any thunder at all. My main issue is my dominant male housecat, Doobie. He harasses Zack, Zack harasses back. Even if I cover the entire cage with a blanket, and only leave a little front of it uncovered, they will fight through the bars. I've considered buying some Plexiglas, and making a custom cage cover to go over it, with small bore holes drilled throughout the glass for ventilation. That would at least stop the physical contact, BUT, it wouldn't stop the endless "G,RRR,YEOW,HAK,SKTPF,YOW,KERTCH,HA,SHHH,GR!" that is the constant result of Zack and Doobie being within earshot of each other. (I'm sure I couldn't afford the materials though, anyways) I also have no doors in the apartment, other than the one that closes off the bedroom from the livingroom or kitchen, and the one from the bedroom to the bathroom, so even if I put Doobie in the bedroom area, we can't get any sleep, as he will dig at the door for hours on end trying to dig his way into the room he's locked out of.All of this because someone lied to me about Zack to begin with, told me he was friendly. He was supposed to come here as his last chance, to join the feral colony. Instead, he harasses the feral colony so bad that they would rather starve to death than come here to eat (I can only assume that's the fate of the cats I have not seen in months).It is still, and always will be, my opinion that euthanasia is far kinder than any prolonged period in a cage. I will NOT cage Zack all winter, which would be more than half the year here (7-8 months of temperatures below freezing at night, and at least 3 months of temperatures below freezing day and night). He was a very much loved housecat, and even having him live outside is not nice to him, all of his life, he slept on the bed, and snuggled on the sofa, until he came here, were he was thrown out, and never gets more than a pat in passing. This life is just NOT fair to Zack, and as much as I hate to do it, I will euthanise him once it gets cold if no home is found. Zack deserves to be a loved part of a family, like he was before, not locked in a cage. Try it for yourself. Do something illegal, and get put in jail for 3 months. I think you'll have a different opinion of cage life afterwards.In our society it seems that the worst punishment we can come up with for our most rotten members of society is caging them. Yet we do it to animals all the time, innocent animals, who did nothing to deserve to be punished. What a hypocrisy we live in. It really saddens me. The fact that so many of us don't even associate the word "cage" with it's true meaning is the worst part. We've let ourselves become numb to term. Most of us, when we hear the word cage, we think of cute kittens, reaching out through the bars, or an animal in intensive care at the vet's clinic, where the cage protects them and keeps them still and quiet. Yet, the very basic principal of the word cage SHOULD invoke a dire sense of loss of freedom. We should envision prisoners of war, old style zoos, where big cats paced back and forth in a 8x8 cage with sterile walls. A cage shouldn't be anything positive in our minds,
RE: OT - Zack
Phaerwyn, I certainly respect the depth of your feeling on the subject, but I think your personal take on the *human* need for physical freedom is clouding your perceptions of what the CAT would want. Remember that they're lair animals, so cages judiciously used don't automatically scream "prison" to a cat, they say "safety." I'm not saying contain them 24/7 but they're really not going to mind the cage the 20 hours a day they're sleeping. ;-) If you could give Zack some quality time both in and out of the cage, maybe he would gradually lose his "issues." Personally, we've got a "psycho kitty" of our own, he's sorta the feline equivalent of Popeye's Bluto, all swagger and bullying. Please don't kill me, but when Gail and I combined households and Tribble had 4 other cats to beat up on, we very reluctantly made the decision to have him front-declawed, though it was against everything in our philosophies, for the sake of the others. We found a place that uses laser, to minimize the pain. This was not an ideal solution, not only because of the mutilation, but also because he still has his teeth. But at least he has to get closer to them now, and they all know enough not to let him. We haven't been able to vet him for a long time, and we often half-joke that if he ever needs pills, he's doomed. Let me tell you, the post that mentioned Elavil ear-cream is making me go hm. We both know that if Tribble weren't here, we would have many fewer hassles, but neither of us would dream of sending him along. There are moments when he's utterly endearing. He's never been actually diagnosed with anything, but I think there must be some disorder. Sometimes he'll want to just press his forehead against you, maybe he gets migraines or something. As for making Plexiglas cage partitions, you can get window-replacement Lexan for maybe $15 for a large sheet at home stores. It's very clear (I used it, with mirror hangers, to protect my many posters in my last place), and you can cut it down fairly easily, and drill vent holes with a regular drill, a Dremel tool, etc. That might mean one less hurdle to finding a solution for Zack. Diane R.
Re: OT - Zack
Nina, I sell cat collars that say "Crazy Cat" on them and have images of psycho cats all over them, LOL! I also have "fat cat" "stinky cat" "princess cat" and lots others.Crazy cat:http://ucat.us/beastiebands/crazycat.jpg Doobie wears a "Fat Cat" collar, he doesn't seem too very offended... Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
Re: OT - Zack
lexan... ok, I'll look into that, thanks Karen! I was under the impression that anything clear was grossly expensive, I guess I was wrong. I have to do something, cause even thick quilts can't keep Doobie away from the cage when Zack is in there. Right now I have the mat that my desk chair should be rolling on over one side of it, and a quilt on top, and several computers cases leaning up against the front to block Doobie. One side, at least, I can put up against the wall... of course, Zack sprays it... but it washes OK. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
RE: OT - Zack
Putting Peepers on Prozac was a last resort. When we drove to the vet for her initial evaluation all I could think was how that drive easily could have been for a very different and irreversible purpose. We really had to consider the possibility of euthanizing her -- she was so hyper-defensive that if anyone sat within 5 feet of her she felt threatened and tried to kill them, her own mother included. Not cut out for a multi-cat environment so sanctuaries were out. She wasn't all that great with people either -- used to jum up straight up and go for my eyes -- so adoption into an only-cat home wasn't an option either. We had taken to tucking her in for the night in a big condo cage because, in the middle of the night, she would sneak into my room and try to attack one of the other cats who slept IN MY ARMS. Yes, she attacked Trixie in my arms every night around 2 or 3 a.m. Fortunately, my vet understood where I was coming from pretty quickly. I mean, he had to send us home with an oralsedative and have us bring her back the next day already sedated so he could give her a booster shot. To this day they have been unable to weigh her. He suggested Prozac rather quickly.Getting the Prozac in her was a problem. We worked with a compounding pharmacy and tried an allegedly liver-flavored syrup. Then we had it made into little Pounch-type treats. No matter what, my housemate and I had to chase her down every 24 hours and wrap her in a towel to get the meds in her. Not what you want to do with a cat who is already paranoid. However, within a week or two we saw improvement.Peepers has always considered my housemate her person. I'm just the kitchenh help. So now Larry is the one who medicates her. We've taken to ordering the Prozac online so we now get 400 dosages for around $80. Peepers gets a 5 mg dose and she now gets it every other day. This has made such a huge difference in Peepers' life. She's been on it since February 2005 and hasn't gone off on anyone (I mean she used to chase cats through the house screeching) in all that time. She will now hang out on the bed with other cats nearby. Her mother, a very sweet little tuxedo cat, isn't terrified of her anymore. She isn't cuddling with anyone but we have reached peaceful coexistence. Peepers' life is now closer to normal than anything we had ever hoped for.I don't think mindless agression is normal in altered cats. Usually they learn tolive in proximity with one another without anyone getting killed.And if that doesn't seem workable, no matter howslowly you make the introductions, then there may be something biochemical going on.Oh, just had a thought -- we use ourfoyer as intake space for newbies. We have a screen door between the foyer and living room. Keeps new kids contained and everyonee can see everyone else, sniff noses, whatever. Maybe install a screen door on your bathroom and start Zack in there?Diane Rosenfeldt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phaerwyn, I certainly respect the depth of your feeling on the subject, but I think your personal take on the *human* need for physical freedom is clouding your perceptions of what the CAT would want. Remember that they're lair animals, so cages judiciously used don't automatically scream "prison" to a cat, they say "safety." I'm not saying contain them 24/7 but they're really not going to mind the cage the 20 hours a day they're sleeping. ;-) If you could give Zack some quality time both in and out of the cage, maybe he would gradually lose his "issues." Personally, we've got a "psycho kitty" of our own, he's sorta the feline equivalent of Popeye's Bluto, all swagger and bullying. Please don't kill me, but when Gail and I combined households and Tribble had 4 other cats to beat up on, we very reluctantly made the decision to have him front-declawed, though it was against everything in our philosophies, for the sake of the others. We found a place that uses laser, to minimize the pain. This was not an ideal solution, not only because of the mutilation, but also because he still has his teeth. But at least he has to get closer to them now, and they all know enough not to let him. We haven't been able to vet him for a long time, and we often half-joke that if he ever needs pills, he's doomed. Let me tell you, the post that mentioned Elavil ear-cream is making me go hm. We both know that if Tribble weren't here, we would have many fewer hassles, but neither of us would dream of sending him along. There are moments when he's utterly endearing. He's never been actually diagnosed with anything, but I think there must be some disorder. Sometimes he'll want to just press his forehead against you, maybe he gets migraines or something. As for making Plexiglas cage partitions, you can get window-replacement Lexan for maybe $15 for a large sheet at home stores. It's very clear (I used it, with mirror hangers, to protect my many posters in my last place), and you can cut it down
Re: OT - Zack
Well, the problem is my apartment, the bathroom is only accessible through the bedroom, and any cat we've ever locked in there takes to howling all night and keeps us awake. If anyone is willing to donate toward the cause, I would be more than willing to take Zack to the vet for an exam and Prozac prescription. I have no idea what the cost would be, but at this point, anything is out of my range. My boyfriend lost his job, and my job barely pays rent and feeds all the cats. I never seem to be able to get in and out of the vet's office for under $100. Do you think it would eliminate the spraying issue too? Cause even if he does get along with the other cats... I still can't let him be an indoor cat in an apartment I RENT if he's going to spray everywhere. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Please shop online through i-give and support the Feline Veterinary Emergency Assistance Program:http://www.igive.com/FVEAP Shop at GREAT stores, like Drs. Foster Smith, Pet Food Direct, Musician's Friend, and LOTS more!It doesn't cost you a single penny more, and it makes so much difference to a sick cat in need! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
