Re: Rude Ranch -ideas for getting HELP
Well, three of my volunteers have now moved out of state (have since gone off to college), and the other two now have their hands full with their two new children, one of which is a Down's Synd. baby...where are you? I found the kids willing to help that time at one of the high schools in the area. They have to do community service to graduate in Maryland. Not all of the kids want to work at church, or are comfortable helping at a soup kitchen, and there are quite a lot of young adults who love animals and are very into activism, but are limited as to how much they can do first hand because they still live with mom dad. BUT, if you contact the local high schools churches in your areas, you'd be surprised by how many people are willing to help. AND if you have any affiliations with actual rescues, very often the local lumber yards little ma pa hardware stores in the area will be willing to donate either regular merchandise, or slightly damaged items that can be still be useful...just not pretty. You can also get ALOT of stuff on the CRAIGS LIST website. People list items there they want to get rid of, but don't want to throw awaymost are give-a-ways, some are up for trade. It never hurts to ask youth church groups, schools, shops that sell animal supplies..even vet offices, boarding grooming businesses. But if you approach the schools and church groups, do it correctly, start at the HEAD of the school, explain in writing what you are looking to do and WHY, try to find some educational value in it for those who would help. If you are in need of blankets or throws for your rescues...contact an assisted living care facility. Offer to maybe give a talk to the residents about felv+, show pictures of your cats, or if they have the temperment and are up on shots, to bring them in to visit. Talk with them about what you do, what you need...if you supplie the raw materials, and can find a resident or two there who love cats and can say knitt or sew...perhaps you can sit with them and make blankets or throws that you need. ALWAYS remember tho to bring pictures back to your helpers of your critter using the items they made or donated. In that instance where I offered to help the woman who had offered to take Simms, I did so because I would have been making the living space more livable for an animal that had been in my care (and that I WANTED desparately to keep, but couldn't for space reasons (VERY small aptcondo Nazi's already all over me b/c I had too many...three of which were already special needs critters...etc...), I was willing to put the supplies I couldn't get donated on my charge card. As it is, I used that money to drive the cat across 4 states to a better home. T Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No kidding! That was exactly what was going through my mind when reading Tamara's offer of help. I'm always wishing help like that would fall out of the sky and into my lap! Susan Hoffman wrote: Ummm, would you and your volunteers like to come give me a hand at MY place? I'll accept! tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. That's what scared me about the woman who originally agreed to take Simms. After seeing her place, I called her back and told her I had five volunteers lined up who had agreed to come help her finish insulating the garage where she kept the felv+ cats, build new cat trees and levels for them and her healthy foster cats and even help her husband build the larger shed he told me he wanted to build for the healthy foster cats that she had. I told her all her hubby had to do was get us a list of the materials he needed, give us a weekend or two when it would be good for them, and we'd be there. - Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA.
Re: Rude Ranch -ideas for getting HELP
excellent suggestions. more and more high-schools are requiring community service before graduation, and far more kids would like to help animals than people--a sentiment i can certainly identify with! there's a lot of things that retirees can do, as well, with skills gained from years of working the real world. with teenagers, many sanctuaries/shelters have a 16-years age minimum age limit for volunteers; others will say 18 in a minimum for insurance purposes. i've spoken with insurance professionals, tho, who say that liability insurance really doesn't apply to volunteers but only to VISITORS--that volunteers are assumed to have taken on any risks by the act of volunteering you can find lots of materials on freecycle lists, too, if you don't mind wading through lots of posts for things that aren't applicable. posting what you WANT, however, can work well. there are at LEAST two yahoogroups that exist solely for shelters/sanctuaries/rescue to post things that they need/have extras of to share with others. any university with a vet school or a vet-tech program is a source of volunteers; in fact, universities are a good source in general, as a lot of students really miss their own pets and would love to help out, even if only doing socializing, which is a major need for places with a lot of kitties. i was astonished to find out, when i moved to the sanctuary, that i was the first volunteer they'd ever had who knew how to medicate cats! i did up a flyer once, asking for cooks, cleaners and cuddlers--people to come in for an hour a day opening the 52 cans of wet food, scooping it into bowls and adding the lysine, and delivering it to the rooms; helping with cleaning (the never-ending cleaning-- every little bit helps, and frees the directors of the facilities for things like vet visits, maintenance, etc), and the all-important sitting on the floor and just being a cat toy. so many people think that helping out means taking in another cat. it can mean joining a group of people putting labels on the newsletter, taking photos of the adoptable cats and putting them on the petfinder site, writing thank-you notes for donations received; answering emails or phone calls; offering to pick up donations and delivering them to the shelter/rescue; transporting critters to the vet, on a leg of their trip to their forever home. it can be going out every two weeks and taking a spin on the riding lawn mower; it can be having another group they're with having 50/50 raffles where half the proceeds go to the rescue; it can be someone lending their fundraising skills and helping organize an event; it can be staffing an adoption event for a few hours; it can be sellling baked goods on a weekend. if we remind people of all the ways they can help, without adding a new fur-source to their homes, again, we help us all. MC On 2/7/07, tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, three of my volunteers have now moved out of state (have since gone off to college), and the other two now have their hands full with their two new children, one of which is a Down's Synd. baby...where are you? I found the kids willing to help that time at one of the high schools in the area. They have to do community service to graduate in Maryland. Not all of the kids want to work at church, or are comfortable helping at a soup kitchen, and there are quite a lot of young adults who love animals and are very into activism, but are limited as to how much they can do first hand because they still live with mom dad. BUT, if you contact the local high schools churches in your areas, you'd be surprised by how many people are willing to help. AND if you have any affiliations with actual rescues, very often the local lumber yards little ma pa hardware stores in the area will be willing to donate either regular merchandise, or slightly damaged items that can be still be useful...just not pretty. You can also get ALOT of stuff on the CRAIGS LIST website. People list items there they want to get rid of, but don't want to throw awaymost are give-a-ways, some are up for trade. It never hurts to ask youth church groups, schools, shops that sell animal supplies..even vet offices, boarding grooming businesses. But if you approach the schools and church groups, do it correctly, start at the HEAD of the school, explain in writing what you are looking to do and WHY, try to find some educational value in it for those who would help. If you are in need of blankets or throws for your rescues...contact an assisted living care facility. Offer to maybe give a talk to the residents about felv+, show pictures of your cats, or if they have the temperment and are up on shots, to bring them in to visit. Talk with them about what you do, what you need...if you supplie the raw materials, and can find a resident or two there who love cats and can say knitt or sew...perhaps you can sit with them and make blankets or throws that you need.
Re: Rude Ranch -ideas for getting HELP
I was out at the Volunteer Fair at the University of Texas campus today (I had to take the day off to go). I got a lot of interestbut not sure how much will pan out...we will see. On 2/7/07, TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: excellent suggestions. more and more high-schools are requiring community service before graduation, and far more kids would like to help animals than people--a sentiment i can certainly identify with! there's a lot of things that retirees can do, as well, with skills gained from years of working the real world. with teenagers, many sanctuaries/shelters have a 16-years age minimum age limit for volunteers; others will say 18 in a minimum for insurance purposes. i've spoken with insurance professionals, tho, who say that liability insurance really doesn't apply to volunteers but only to VISITORS--that volunteers are assumed to have taken on any risks by the act of volunteering you can find lots of materials on freecycle lists, too, if you don't mind wading through lots of posts for things that aren't applicable. posting what you WANT, however, can work well. there are at LEAST two yahoogroups that exist solely for shelters/sanctuaries/rescue to post things that they need/have extras of to share with others. any university with a vet school or a vet-tech program is a source of volunteers; in fact, universities are a good source in general, as a lot of students really miss their own pets and would love to help out, even if only doing socializing, which is a major need for places with a lot of kitties. i was astonished to find out, when i moved to the sanctuary, that i was the first volunteer they'd ever had who knew how to medicate cats! i did up a flyer once, asking for cooks, cleaners and cuddlers--people to come in for an hour a day opening the 52 cans of wet food, scooping it into bowls and adding the lysine, and delivering it to the rooms; helping with cleaning (the never-ending cleaning-- every little bit helps, and frees the directors of the facilities for things like vet visits, maintenance, etc), and the all-important sitting on the floor and just being a cat toy. so many people think that helping out means taking in another cat. it can mean joining a group of people putting labels on the newsletter, taking photos of the adoptable cats and putting them on the petfinder site, writing thank-you notes for donations received; answering emails or phone calls; offering to pick up donations and delivering them to the shelter/rescue; transporting critters to the vet, on a leg of their trip to their forever home. it can be going out every two weeks and taking a spin on the riding lawn mower; it can be having another group they're with having 50/50 raffles where half the proceeds go to the rescue; it can be someone lending their fundraising skills and helping organize an event; it can be staffing an adoption event for a few hours; it can be sellling baked goods on a weekend. if we remind people of all the ways they can help, without adding a new fur-source to their homes, again, we help us all. MC On 2/7/07, tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, three of my volunteers have now moved out of state (have since gone off to college), and the other two now have their hands full with their two new children, one of which is a Down's Synd. baby...where are you? I found the kids willing to help that time at one of the high schools in the area. They have to do community service to graduate in Maryland. Not all of the kids want to work at church, or are comfortable helping at a soup kitchen, and there are quite a lot of young adults who love animals and are very into activism, but are limited as to how much they can do first hand because they still live with mom dad. BUT, if you contact the local high schools churches in your areas, you'd be surprised by how many people are willing to help. AND if you have any affiliations with actual rescues, very often the local lumber yards little ma pa hardware stores in the area will be willing to donate either regular merchandise, or slightly damaged items that can be still be useful...just not pretty. You can also get ALOT of stuff on the CRAIGS LIST website. People list items there they want to get rid of, but don't want to throw awaymost are give-a-ways, some are up for trade. It never hurts to ask youth church groups, schools, shops that sell animal supplies..even vet offices, boarding grooming businesses. But if you approach the schools and church groups, do it correctly, start at the HEAD of the school, explain in writing what you are looking to do and WHY, try to find some educational value in it for those who would help. If you are in need of blankets or throws for your rescues...contact an assisted living care facility. Offer to maybe give a talk to the residents about felv+, show pictures of your cats, or if they have the temperment and are up on shots, to
RE: Rude Ranch-Chris
Thanks Chris! I do think about Big Boy alot, and thought perhaps you had chosen to keep him. Romeo is a good name for him! Sorry about having to keep him separated from your girl. Once again we are treading the same path, as my most recent rescue does not get along with my female, Coebeio. Coey absolutely hates him and growls at him until he, having had enough goes after her. Since he's only about 1 or so, and oh, 3-4 lbs heaver than Coey (a senior), I too have to keep Tully locked behind three stacked babygates covering the doorway between my studio and the rest of the apt. I was hoping that this would help the felines to get used to one anotherits been about 5 months now...and no go. To make it worse...Tully is prone to urine infections crystals and has asthmaooo here's yet ANOTHER foster animal that will be with me forever. HAI really think I must be doing something wrong! I have friends who feed their cats and dogs crap (supermarket Walmart brand food)let them come and go outside without supervisionHere I'm trying to feed my animals human-grade quality foods like Merrik and EVO...and each one of them has been a special needs critter...heart conditions, asthma, skin cancer, cancer, brain tumors, cat herpes, ibd, seizers, pancreitis attackshell...I even had a diabetic guinea pig, a few one-eyed goldfish, AND a pearl scale goldfish-that couldn't swim-lived three years...had to be scooped up off the bottom of the tank to be fed each day, wiggled his way along the bottom, but couldn't float to save his life! Anyway..sorry for ranting...I'm glad you and Romeo are doing so well! Thanks again for the support! Take care God Bless. T Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Havent chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our catsshe for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take strangers word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these travels looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the collector for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he washow could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloadedgoing to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many dont even have a home visit to begin withmuch less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situationsbut it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamaras heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him Over the last few years, Ive looked to this group for so muchand found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some clues when something doesnt seem quite right So Tamara, thank you from me and from BB (who by the way is now Romeo and sprawled out on my bedso much for rehoming!) Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I
RE: Rude Ranch-Chris--Tamara o/t
Hey Tamara I'm just dipping in here...haven't read anything else today yetbut I love the story of how you looked after your little goldfish for 3 years--just read it out to my co-worker--Tamara, weren't you the listmember who had some children's book ideas up her sleevemy co-worker reckons (as I do) that the goldfish who couldn't swim would make a great book! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:12 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Rude Ranch-Chris Thanks Chris! I do think about Big Boy alot, and thought perhaps you had chosen to keep him. Romeo is a good name for him! Sorry about having to keep him separated from your girl. Once again we are treading the same path, as my most recent rescue does not get along with my female, Coebeio. Coey absolutely hates him and growls at him until he, having had enough goes after her. Since he's only about 1 or so, and oh, 3-4 lbs heaver than Coey (a senior), I too have to keep Tully locked behind three stacked babygates covering the doorway between my studio and the rest of the apt. I was hoping that this would help the felines to get used to one anotherits been about 5 months now...and no go. To make it worse...Tully is prone to urine infections crystals and has asthmaooo here's yet ANOTHER foster animal that will be with me forever. HAI really think I must be doing something wrong! I have friends who feed their cats and dogs crap (supermarket Walmart brand food)let them come and go outside without supervisionHere I'm trying to feed my animals human-grade quality foods like Merrik and EVO...and each one of them has been a special needs critter...heart conditions, asthma, skin cancer, cancer, brain tumors, cat herpes, ibd, seizers, pancreitis attackshell...I even had a diabetic guinea pig, a few one-eyed goldfish, AND a pearl scale goldfish-that couldn't swim-lived three years...had to be scooped up off the bottom of the tank to be fed each day, wiggled his way along the bottom, but couldn't float to save his life! Anyway..sorry for ranting...I'm glad you and Romeo are doing so well! Thanks again for the support! Take care God Bless. T Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our cats-she for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take stranger's word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these 'travels' looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the 'collector' for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he was-how could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloaded-going to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many don't even have a home visit to begin with-much less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situations-but it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamara's heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him... Over the last few years, I've looked to this group for so much-and found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some clues when something doesn't seem quite right... So Tamara, thank you from me and from BB (who by the way is now Romeo and sprawled out on my bed-so much for rehoming!) Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has
RE: Rude Ranch-Chris
Well time went on and he just sort of made himself comfortable-and you know how that goes! Well the tussles between Romeo and Tucson make me really wish I could talk 'cat' language! The thing is that he is NEVER the aggressor. The only time they start fighting is when she corners him. Having been out on the street for so long, he's better at it and she always gets the short end but that doesn't stop her! Never ever had that experience with cats before so it's a real stumper! He's getting a little braver about coming into a room when she's there but is she spots him, she usually lets him walk a couple of feet and then goes charging. What's really weird is that at meal time, he comes trotting out and will stand there and meow with the rest of them as I open the food and nobody goes after anybody else. Or if a stranger comes in the apartment, they all go scurrying under one of the beds and will stay nose to nose for hours without so much as a hiss! Go figure. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:12 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Rude Ranch-Chris Thanks Chris! I do think about Big Boy alot, and thought perhaps you had chosen to keep him. Romeo is a good name for him! Sorry about having to keep him separated from your girl. Once again we are treading the same path, as my most recent rescue does not get along with my female, Coebeio. Coey absolutely hates him and growls at him until he, having had enough goes after her. Since he's only about 1 or so, and oh, 3-4 lbs heaver than Coey (a senior), I too have to keep Tully locked behind three stacked babygates covering the doorway between my studio and the rest of the apt. I was hoping that this would help the felines to get used to one anotherits been about 5 months now...and no go. To make it worse...Tully is prone to urine infections crystals and has asthmaooo here's yet ANOTHER foster animal that will be with me forever. HAI really think I must be doing something wrong! I have friends who feed their cats and dogs crap (supermarket Walmart brand food)let them come and go outside without supervisionHere I'm trying to feed my animals human-grade quality foods like Merrik and EVO...and each one of them has been a special needs critter...heart conditions, asthma, skin cancer, cancer, brain tumors, cat herpes, ibd, seizers, pancreitis attackshell...I even had a diabetic guinea pig, a few one-eyed goldfish, AND a pearl scale goldfish-that couldn't swim-lived three years...had to be scooped up off the bottom of the tank to be fed each day, wiggled his way along the bottom, but couldn't float to save his life! Anyway..sorry for ranting...I'm glad you and Romeo are doing so well! Thanks again for the support! Take care God Bless. T Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our cats-she for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take stranger's word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these 'travels' looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the 'collector' for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he was-how could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloaded-going to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many don't even have a home visit to begin with-much less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situations-but it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamara's heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him. Over the last few years, I've looked to this group for so much-and found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some
Re: Rude Ranch
. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security for the animals, whether education on the disease itself, or on HOW to investigate anyone or place where one might leave an animal who is trusting you to care for them. I never said RR was bad, or absolutely did shift animals onto an overloaded foster home, I just relayed what little information I personaly heard from someone who claimed to have a good, working relationship with RR. So that if anyone had seen them on Animal Planet they wouldn't automatically assume them to be the be-all-end-all (which they may actually be-who knows) just because they were on tv. Speaking as a rescuer myself, who is more than willing to help others ...I prefer to do so when they've exhausted all other avenues...and NOT be their first call...being too good at what you do, can get you in WAY over your head. T TenHouseCats wrote: exactly. it only takes one person with their own agenda to cause irreparable harm. we were once contacted by someone who wanted us to take her two FeLVs, from quite a distance away. as FeLVs don't do really well on long transports, we tried to work with her on more local options. every place she went to, she found major fault with, yet every time we tried to set up transport arrangements with her, she has one excuse after another about why it wouldn't/couldn't work. i had many long emails and phone calls with her, and finally, she just stopped responding. about two months later, she started posting hissterical messages about these same two cats on the lists. again, i wrote and reminded her that we were willing to take them--on the lists, she wrote
RE: Rude Ranch-Chris
I wish I knew too! Maybe someday, SOMEONE will figure it out... Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well time went on and he just sort of made himself comfortableand you know how that goes! Well the tussles between Romeo and Tucson make me really wish I could talk cat language! The thing is that he is NEVER the aggressor. The only time they start fighting is when she corners him. Having been out on the street for so long, hes better at it and she always gets the short end but that doesnt stop her! Never ever had that experience with cats before so its a real stumper! Hes getting a little braver about coming into a room when shes there but is she spots him, she usually lets him walk a couple of feet and then goes charging. Whats really weird is that at meal time, he comes trotting out and will stand there and meow with the rest of them as I open the food and nobody goes after anybody else. Or if a stranger comes in the apartment, they all go scurrying under one of the beds and will stay nose to nose for hours without so much as a hiss! Go figure. Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:12 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Rude Ranch-Chris Thanks Chris! I do think about Big Boy alot, and thought perhaps you had chosen to keep him. Romeo is a good name for him! Sorry about having to keep him separated from your girl. Once again we are treading the same path, as my most recent rescue does not get along with my female, Coebeio. Coey absolutely hates him and growls at him until he, having had enough goes after her. Since he's only about 1 or so, and oh, 3-4 lbs heaver than Coey (a senior), I too have to keep Tully locked behind three stacked babygates covering the doorway between my studio and the rest of the apt. I was hoping that this would help the felines to get used to one anotherits been about 5 months now...and no go. To make it worse...Tully is prone to urine infections crystals and has asthmaooo here's yet ANOTHER foster animal that will be with me forever. HAI really think I must be doing something wrong! I have friends who feed their cats and dogs crap (supermarket Walmart brand food)let them come and go outside without supervisionHere I'm trying to feed my animals human-grade quality foods like Merrik and EVO...and each one of them has been a special needs critter...heart conditions, asthma, skin cancer, cancer, brain tumors, cat herpes, ibd, seizers, pancreitis attackshell...I even had a diabetic guinea pig, a few one-eyed goldfish, AND a pearl scale goldfish-that couldn't swim-lived three years...had to be scooped up off the bottom of the tank to be fed each day, wiggled his way along the bottom, but couldn't float to save his life! Anyway..sorry for ranting...I'm glad you and Romeo are doing so well! Thanks again for the support! Take care God Bless. T Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Havent chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our catsshe for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take strangers word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these travels looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the collector for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he washow could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloadedgoing to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many dont even have a home visit to begin withmuch less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situationsbut it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamaras heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from
Re: Rude Ranch
unfortunately, from what you saw, and what her husband said, she most probably did NOT accept any help. and, sadly, it probably will come to the point where she'll be on the news one day... this is when the now-trendy concept of intervention comes in at least the husband recognizes there's a problem too many times there IS that martyr complex, and the piece of the classic hoarder/collector syndrome where the people really believe that only they are able to truly care for the critters in the correct way. i don't know what the answer is; at what point our responsibility as rescuers and guardians of the animals kicks in, and others' rights to privacy ends. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
RE: Rude Ranch
I have been reading the many messages concerning Rude Ranch with considerable interest since I seem to have opened up discussion about RR. Admittedly I have had only one experience and that was my recent adoption of one of their felv+ cats. It may well be that there were problems in the past. I have a feeling that some of the less-than-positive experiences go back several years ago, to the time before Bob and Kathy Rude moved to the very large house they now run as a shelter/sanctuary. The descriptions provided in a number of the e-mails do not match what I saw during my visit on December 22, 2006. The pictures posted on their web page, http://www.ruderanch.org, are an accurate depiction of what I saw. Leah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch unfortunately, from what you saw, and what her husband said, she most probably did NOT accept any help. and, sadly, it probably will come to the point where she'll be on the news one day... this is when the now-trendy concept of intervention comes in at least the husband recognizes there's a problem too many times there IS that martyr complex, and the piece of the classic hoarder/collector syndrome where the people really believe that only they are able to truly care for the critters in the correct way. i don't know what the answer is; at what point our responsibility as rescuers and guardians of the animals kicks in, and others' rights to privacy ends. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
RE: Rude Ranch
Again, Leah, The description I relayed was not at Rude Ranch, but at the farm of a rescuer that claimed to be helping RR with fostering overflow cats...and yes, Bob Rude was the name of the person who I had contacted regarding placing Simms there before the other woman (mentioned above) volunteered to give him a forever home. It is HER place I described. I never visited RR. T Wolf, Leah R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been reading the many messages concerning Rude Ranch with considerable interest since I seem to have opened up discussion about RR. Admittedly I have had only one experience and that was my recent adoption of one of their felv+ cats. It may well be that there were problems in the past. I have a feeling that some of the less-than-positive experiences go back several years ago, to the time before Bob and Kathy Rude moved to the very large house they now run as a shelter/sanctuary. The descriptions provided in a number of the e-mails do not match what I saw during my visit on December 22, 2006. The pictures posted on their web page, http://www.ruderanch.org, are an accurate depiction of what I saw. Leah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch unfortunately, from what you saw, and what her husband said, she most probably did NOT accept any help. and, sadly, it probably will come to the point where she'll be on the news one day... this is when the now-trendy concept of intervention comes in at least the husband recognizes there's a problem too many times there IS that martyr complex, and the piece of the classic hoarder/collector syndrome where the people really believe that only they are able to truly care for the critters in the correct way. i don't know what the answer is; at what point our responsibility as rescuers and guardians of the animals kicks in, and others' rights to privacy ends. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
RE: Rude Ranch-Chris--Tamara o/t
Ah yes...I suppose it would...with the exception of the fact that it didn't end
well for ol' Frick...but I suppose I COULD change thathehe..hmm...should I
begin that career by lying to children...HA!
I'll think about it. Thanks! ;-)
MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Tamara
I'm just dipping in here...haven't read anything else today yetbut I love
the story of how you looked after your little goldfish for 3 years--just read
it out to my co-worker--Tamara, weren't you the listmember who had some
children's book ideas up her sleevemy co-worker reckons (as I do) that the
goldfish who couldn't swim would make a great book!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:12 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Rude Ranch-Chris
Thanks Chris!
I do think about Big Boy alot, and thought perhaps you had chosen to keep
him. Romeo is a good name for him!
Sorry about having to keep him separated from your girl. Once again we are
treading the same path, as my most recent rescue does not get along with my
female, Coebeio. Coey absolutely hates him and growls at him until he, having
had enough goes after her. Since he's only about 1 or so, and oh, 3-4 lbs
heaver than Coey (a senior), I too have to keep Tully locked behind three
stacked babygates covering the doorway between my studio and the rest of the
apt. I was hoping that this would help the felines to get used to one
anotherits been about 5 months now...and no go. To make it worse...Tully
is prone to urine infections crystals and has asthmaooo here's yet
ANOTHER foster animal that will be with me forever.
HAI really think I must be doing something wrong! I have friends who
feed their cats and dogs crap (supermarket Walmart brand food)let them
come and go outside without supervisionHere I'm trying to feed my animals
human-grade quality foods like Merrik and EVO...and each one of them has been a
special needs critter...heart conditions, asthma, skin cancer, cancer, brain
tumors, cat herpes, ibd, seizers, pancreitis attackshell...I even had a
diabetic guinea pig, a few one-eyed goldfish, AND a pearl scale goldfish-that
couldn't swim-lived three years...had to be scooped up off the bottom of
the tank to be fed each day, wiggled his way along the bottom, but couldn't
float to save his life!
Anyway..sorry for ranting...I'm glad you and Romeo are doing so well! Thanks
again for the support! Take care God Bless.
T
Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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Havent chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective.
Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our catsshe for
Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I
remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so
appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I
remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort
of had to take strangers word that they were going to take care of BB as well
as I would have! In these travels looking for a new home for BB, I ran
across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the collector for FELV+
cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his
home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to
him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone
even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who
knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he washow could responsible
rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had
never been there???
As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also
overloadedgoing to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor
those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has
shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look
RE: Rude Ranch
Thank you, Tamara, for the clarification. There has been such a lively discussion that it was becoming fuzzy to me what comments were being made about Rude Ranch Animal Rescue and which ones were about other shelters and individuals. Leah _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:44 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Rude Ranch Again, Leah, The description I relayed was not at Rude Ranch, but at the farm of a rescuer that claimed to be helping RR with fostering overflow cats...and yes, Bob Rude was the name of the person who I had contacted regarding placing Simms there before the other woman (mentioned above) volunteered to give him a forever home. It is HER place I described. I never visited RR. T Wolf, Leah R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been reading the many messages concerning Rude Ranch with considerable interest since I seem to have opened up discussion about RR. Admittedly I have had only one experience and that was my recent adoption of one of their felv+ cats. It may well be that there were problems in the past. I have a feeling that some of the less-than-positive experiences go back several years ago, to the time before Bob and Kathy Rude moved to the very large house they now run as a shelter/sanctuary. The descriptions provided in a number of the e-mails do not match what I saw during my visit on December 22, 2006. The pictures posted on their web page, http://www.ruderanch.org, are an accurate depiction of what I saw. Leah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch unfortunately, from what you saw, and what her husband said, she most probably did NOT accept any help. and, sadly, it probably will come to the point where she'll be on the news one day... this is when the now-trendy concept of intervention comes in at least the husband recognizes there's a problem too many times there IS that martyr complex, and the piece of the classic hoarder/collector syndrome where the people really believe that only they are able to truly care for the critters in the correct way. i don't know what the answer is; at what point our responsibility as rescuers and guardians of the animals kicks in, and others' rights to privacy ends. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 _ The fish are biting. Get http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/spon soredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140cmp=Yahooctv=Q107Taglines=Ys2=EMb=50 more visitors on your site using Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/spon soredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140cmp=Yahooctv=Q107Taglines=Ys2=EMb=50 Search Marketing.
Re: Rude Ranch
i never thought the description was about rude ranch, but i DO think the discussion itself has been VERY valuable. MC On 2/6/07, tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, Leah, The description I relayed was not at Rude Ranch, but at the farm of a rescuer that claimed to be helping RR with fostering overflow cats...and yes, Bob Rude was the name of the person who I had contacted regarding placing Simms there before the other woman (mentioned above) volunteered to give him a forever home. It is HER place I described. I never visited RR. T Wolf, Leah R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been reading the many messages concerning Rude Ranch with considerable interest since I seem to have opened up discussion about RR. Admittedly I have had only one experience and that was my recent adoption of one of their felv+ cats. It may well be that there were problems in the past. I have a feeling that some of the less-than-positive experiences go back several years ago, to the time before Bob and Kathy Rude moved to the very large house they now run as a shelter/sanctuary. The descriptions provided in a number of the e-mails do not match what I saw during my visit on December 22, 2006. The pictures posted on their web page, http://www.ruderanch.org, are an accurate depiction of what I saw. Leah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch unfortunately, from what you saw, and what her husband said, she most probably did NOT accept any help. and, sadly, it probably will come to the point where she'll be on the news one day... this is when the now-trendy concept of intervention comes in at least the husband recognizes there's a problem too many times there IS that martyr complex, and the piece of the classic hoarder/collector syndrome where the people really believe that only they are able to truly care for the critters in the correct way. i don't know what the answer is; at what point our responsibility as rescuers and guardians of the animals kicks in, and others' rights to privacy ends. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Rude Ranch-Chris--Tamara o/t
heck, everyone ELSE lies to children. On 2/6/07, tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes...I suppose it would...with the exception of the fact that it didn't end well for ol' Frick...but I suppose I COULD change thathehe..hmm...should I begin that career by lying to children...HA! I'll think about it. Thanks! ;-) MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Rude Ranch-Chris--Tamara o/t
HEHEE... hey, LOVE that qote of your's...I Just took notice of it: Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heck, everyone ELSE lies to children. On 2/6/07, tamara stickler wrote: Ah yes...I suppose it would...with the exception of the fact that it didn't end well for ol' Frick...but I suppose I COULD change thathehe..hmm...should I begin that career by lying to children...HA! I'll think about it. Thanks! ;-) MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote: -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 - 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
Re: Rude Ranch
wings. if you're in rescue, you CONSTANTLY hear of rescues and sanctuaries that turn out to be bad, and that fooled a lot of people. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security for the animals, whether education on the disease itself, or on HOW to investigate anyone or place where one might leave an animal who is trusting you to care for them. I never said RR was bad, or absolutely did shift animals onto an overloaded foster home, I just relayed what little information I personaly heard from someone who claimed to have a good, working relationship with RR. So that if anyone had seen them on Animal Planet they wouldn't automatically assume them to be the be-all-end-all (which they may actually be-who knows) just because they were on tv. Speaking as a rescuer myself, who is more than willing to help others ...I prefer to do so when they've exhausted all other avenues...and NOT be their first call...being too good at what you do, can get you in WAY over your head. T TenHouseCats wrote: exactly. it only takes one person with their own agenda to cause irreparable harm. we were once contacted by someone who wanted us to take her two FeLVs, from quite a distance away. as FeLVs don't do really well on long transports, we tried to work with her on more local options. every place she went to, she found major fault with, yet every time we tried to set up transport arrangements with her, she has one excuse after another about why it wouldn't/couldn't work. i had many long emails and phone calls with her, and finally, she just stopped responding. about two months later, she started posting hissterical
Re: Rude Ranch
No kidding! That was exactly what was going through my mind when reading Tamara's offer of help. I'm always wishing help like that would fall out of the sky and into my lap! Susan Hoffman wrote: Ummm, would you and your volunteers like to come give me a hand at MY place? I'll accept! */tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I agree. That's what scared me about the woman who originally agreed to take Simms. After seeing her place, I called her back and told her I had five volunteers lined up who had agreed to come help her finish insulating the garage where she kept the felv+ cats, build new cat trees and levels for them and her healthy foster cats and even help her husband build the larger shed he told me he wanted to build for the healthy foster cats that she had. I told her all her hubby had to do was get us a list of the materials he needed, give us a weekend or two when it would be good for them, and we'd be there.
Re: Rude Ranch -WARNING
Yes, Rude Ranch does LOOK like a great place...BUT: I attempted to place a cat at Rude Ranch a few years back, committing to the monthly support fee needed to surrender. My first choice for the felv + stray I had rescued was an actual home, not an institution, so when a woman called and offered to give this cat a HOME, I jumped at the chance without visiting her place first (she came highly recommended by various rescues..), so I turned the spot that they had made room for down to place with this individual instead. When I got to her place, she, while very well intentioned, was an animal horder. She agreed to take fosters in from various organizations, (Grey Hound Rescue...Rude Ranch...etc..), where she cared for them on her farm, with her husband, without any monetary support from these rescues that depended on her (so she said). The garage where she was housing her felv+ cats (she had she had said at the time 5-by the time I got mine there, there were 10) was an absolutely FILTHY...dirt and hair everywhere...exposed insulation beamwork, food bowls that looked as if they hadn't been washed in months...urine soaked everything..the smell was beyond deplorableand it was the dead of WINTER. The great levels the cats had to climb on were rusty metal shelving. The floor was covered in plywood and while there were 3 space heaters in the garage, and it did have garage door windows...but it was aweful. As I told her I had turned down Rude Ranch even tho they had just made a space for (Simms) she interrupted...Oh, that must be why I got this one from them the other day (pointing to a white persuain laying on a ratty blanket on one of the rusty shelves). I had asked her if she received financial help for the cats they dumped on her, she didn't...and was a bit ticked to learn that they charge monthly for careI wonder if they are still charging for the ones they've brought me...or perhaps that's why I have them now, their people stopped paying??? I don't have intimate knowledge of the workings or Rude Ranch...but,,,the fact that if you are coming to visit they insist that you phone and schedule your visit a week before-hand (what they told me when I was considering using them for Simms) makes me wonder if they have to FIND the cat you surrendered before you come back to visit ) I've had TOO many bad run-ins with WONDERFUL organizations to believe everything I see on tv or read in the paper. I'm sure they are all trying their best, but Rude Ranch may be wonderful...but I have to honestly wonder. fyi: I eventually placed Simms with another person in a REAL home environment.. . And don't get me wrong about her...she was/is trying her best...but dear God..you've GOT to know when to say when...Neither her or her husband could tell me how many cats and dogs they had housed on the property...prop. just over a hundred. I have to wonder at rescue organizations that over-burdened themselves, are over-burdening other volunteersto make themselves look good? T Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leah, Thank you for the link to Rude Ranch. What a great place. Quite the inspiration. Nina Wolf, Leah R. wrote: Phaewryn, The web address is http://www.ruderanch.org. Bob and Kathy Rude run quite a place. Some of their cats wouldn't last a second at a publicly-funded shelter due to medical diagnoses such as felv+ or congenital or other disabilities. Bob and Kathy live at the home with all of their furry children. Leah - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch) does rude animal ranch have a website? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
RE: Rude Ranch -WARNING
It is my understanding that Bob and Kathy were living in and had as a shelter a few years ago a much smaller place than the very large house they have now. I had no problem making an appointment at our mutual convenience when I went to adopt a cat this past December. It looked very clean and the very many cats I saw looked well-cared for and content. The various climbers seemed well-contructed, just like you would see in a catalog. There is no question that Rude Ranch is a shelter and not a home and I believe that Bob and Kathy work hard to place the cats that come to them. My two cents. Leah _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:30 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch -WARNING Yes, Rude Ranch does LOOK like a great place...BUT: I attempted to place a cat at Rude Ranch a few years back, committing to the monthly support fee needed to surrender. My first choice for the felv + stray I had rescued was an actual home, not an institution, so when a woman called and offered to give this cat a HOME, I jumped at the chance without visiting her place first (she came highly recommended by various rescues..), so I turned the spot that they had made room for down to place with this individual instead. When I got to her place, she, while very well intentioned, was an animal horder. She agreed to take fosters in from various organizations, (Grey Hound Rescue...Rude Ranch...etc..), where she cared for them on her farm, with her husband, without any monetary support from these rescues that depended on her (so she said). The garage where she was housing her felv+ cats (she had she had said at the time 5-by the time I got mine there, there were 10) was an absolutely FILTHY...dirt and hair everywhere...exposed insulation beamwork, food bowls that looked as if they hadn't been washed in months...urine soaked everything..the smell was beyond deplorableand it was the dead of WINTER. The great levels the cats had to climb on were rusty metal shelving. The floor was covered in plywood and while there were 3 space heaters in the garage, and it did have garage door windows...but it was aweful. As I told her I had turned down Rude Ranch even tho they had just made a space for (Simms) she interrupted...Oh, that must be why I got this one from them the other day (pointing to a white persuain laying on a ratty blanket on one of the rusty shelves). I had asked her if she received financial help for the cats they dumped on her, she didn't...and was a bit ticked to learn that they charge monthly for careI wonder if they are still charging for the ones they've brought me...or perhaps that's why I have them now, their people stopped paying??? I don't have intimate knowledge of the workings or Rude Ranch...but,,,the fact that if you are coming to visit they insist that you phone and schedule your visit a week before-hand (what they told me when I was considering using them for Simms) makes me wonder if they have to FIND the cat you surrendered before you come back to visit ) I've had TOO many bad run-ins with WONDERFUL organizations to believe everything I see on tv or read in the paper. I'm sure they are all trying their best, but Rude Ranch may be wonderful...but I have to honestly wonder. fyi: I eventually placed Simms with another person in a REAL home environment.. . And don't get me wrong about her...she was/is trying her best...but dear God..you've GOT to know when to say when...Neither her or her husband could tell me how many cats and dogs they had housed on the property...prop. just over a hundred. I have to wonder at rescue organizations that over-burdened themselves, are over-burdening other volunteersto make themselves look good? T Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leah, Thank you for the link to Rude Ranch. What a great place. Quite the inspiration. Nina Wolf, Leah R. wrote: Phaewryn, The web address is http://www.ruderanch.org. Bob and Kathy Rude run quite a place. Some of their cats wouldn't last a second at a publicly-funded shelter due to medical diagnoses such as felv+ or congenital or other disabilities. Bob and Kathy live at the home with all of their furry children. Leah - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch) does rude animal ranch have a website? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html _ Cheap Talk? Check http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev t=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Re: Rude Ranch -WARNING
the other thing i have to say, tho i think that tamara's comments weren't about rude ranch's conditions but about the other person's home, is that whomever said that cats are clean and neat has never lived with a large number of them our facilities at the sanctuary were extensive, and designed from the ground up with the state department of ag to be hygienic (ie, easily washable!), etc. in MI, you cannot have anything that isn't bleachable--no comfy furniture, no carpeting, etc., so that wasn't even an option. we had floors that were moisture-sealed, walls that were covered with washable vinyl panelling, little-tykes castles and forts and playgrounds for them to sleep in and on and around, kid's pools full of blankies, more litter boxes than you could count. and no sooner had we completely cleaned the rooms than SOMEONE had thrown up, or had a hairball, or missed the litter box, or dumped over a food bowl, or sneezed all over the walls or the clean windows the more cats a group takes on, and the more medically compromised they are, the more likely it is that you are NOT going to find a place that will always pass a white-glove test. sometimes runs to the vet or medicating 40 cats takes precedence over cleaning the boxes, especially if there's a blizzard and your volunteers didn't show up. if you have a sanctuary for FeLVs, where cats regularly die, it's sometimes hard to find regular volunteers--it's hard to keep having your friends die on you, as we well know. sometimes you have to judge a sanctuary by the condition of the CATS and how happy they seem, not on how the housekeeping compares to your own, smaller-cat household. if the cats are contented and look well-fed and in as good a physical condition as they can be, given their diagnosis, well some sanctuaries ARE just warehouses, and one could ask if the cats are better off there than the alternative. we didn't take in housecats, because housecats didn't adjust well to living without the amenities to which they'd become accustomed. to the strays and ferals who'd had to live outdoors and fend for themselves, it was wonderful--food, a roof over their heads, people to cuddle with them when they wanted it, food, medical care when they needed it, food was it perfect? no. would i have done some things differently? of course. but it was DEFINITELY a better choice for these cats than euthanasia. On 2/5/07, Wolf, Leah R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my understanding that Bob and Kathy were living in and had as a shelter a few years ago a much smaller place than the very large house they have now. I had no problem making an appointment at our mutual convenience when I went to adopt a cat this past December. It looked very clean and the very many cats I saw looked well-cared for and content. The various climbers seemed well-contructed, just like you would see in a catalog. There is no question that Rude Ranch is a shelter and not a home and I believe that Bob and Kathy work hard to place the cats that come to them. My two cents. Leah From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:30 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch -WARNING Yes, Rude Ranch does LOOK like a great place...BUT: I attempted to place a cat at Rude Ranch a few years back, committing to the monthly support fee needed to surrender. My first choice for the felv + stray I had rescued was an actual home, not an institution, so when a woman called and offered to give this cat a HOME, I jumped at the chance without visiting her place first (she came highly recommended by various rescues..), so I turned the spot that they had made room for down to place with this individual instead. When I got to her place, she, while very well intentioned, was an animal horder. She agreed to take fosters in from various organizations, (Grey Hound Rescue...Rude Ranch...etc..), where she cared for them on her farm, with her husband, without any monetary support from these rescues that depended on her (so she said). The garage where she was housing her felv+ cats (she had she had said at the time 5-by the time I got mine there, there were 10) was an absolutely FILTHY...dirt and hair everywhere...exposed insulation beamwork, food bowls that looked as if they hadn't been washed in months...urine soaked everything..the smell was beyond deplorableand it was the dead of WINTER. The great levels the cats had to climb on were rusty metal shelving. The floor was covered in plywood and while there were 3 space heaters in the garage, and it did have garage door windows...but it was aweful. As I told her I had turned down Rude Ranch even tho they had just made a space for (Simms) she interrupted...Oh, that must be why I got this one from them the other day (pointing to a white persuain laying on a ratty blanket on one of the rusty shelves). I had asked her
Re: Rude Ranch
Tamara, I certainly appreciate your taking the time to post to the list about your personal experience with RR. Your language and tact was in no way interpreted, (certainly not by me) as a definitive slam on them personally. You were very clear about your involvement. It started a lively discussion that I think anyone considering placing an animal will benefit from. Most of the people on this list, if not all, take our responsibility to the animals we rescue very seriously. A little reminder to take a thorough look under the rug is a good thing. Nina tamara stickler wrote: Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care.
Re: Rude Ranch
At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security for the animals, whether education on the disease itself, or on HOW to investigate anyone or place where one might leave an animal who is trusting you to care for them. I never said RR was bad, or absolutely did shift animals onto an overloaded foster home, I just relayed what little information I personaly heard from someone who claimed to have a good, working relationship with RR. So that if anyone had seen them on Animal Planet they wouldn't automatically assume them to be the be-all-end-all (which they may actually be-who knows) just because they were on tv. Speaking as a rescuer myself, who is more than willing to help others ...I prefer to do so when they've exhausted all other avenues...and NOT be their first call...being too good at what you do, can get you in WAY over your head. T TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: exactly. it only takes one person with their own agenda to cause irreparable harm. we were once contacted by someone who wanted us to take her two FeLVs, from quite a distance away. as FeLVs don't do really well on long transports, we tried to work with her on more local options. every place she went to, she found major fault with, yet every time we tried to set up transport arrangements with her, she has one excuse after another about why it wouldn't/couldn't work. i had many long emails and phone calls with her, and finally, she just stopped responding. about two months later, she started posting hissterical messages about these same two cats on the lists. again, i wrote and reminded her that we were willing to take them--on the lists, she wrote really nasty letters about how i'd never responded to her before
Re: Rude Ranch
Thanks Nina, I thought that perhaps the issue I initiated was begining to escalate and just wanted to dead-end any path that might lead to hard feelings. It has never been, nor will it ever be my intention to cause distress or negative emotions to bubble over on the list. Thanks for understanding. T Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tamara, I certainly appreciate your taking the time to post to the list about your personal experience with RR. Your language and tact was in no way interpreted, (certainly not by me) as a definitive slam on them personally. You were very clear about your involvement. It started a lively discussion that I think anyone considering placing an animal will benefit from. Most of the people on this list, if not all, take our responsibility to the animals we rescue very seriously. A little reminder to take a thorough look under the rug is a good thing. Nina tamara stickler wrote: Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
Re: Rude Ranch
here i go being terminally libra again--ON THE OTHER paw. this is a pretty closed list, with people particularly attuned to the needs of special-needs cats, so not as public as some. many, many of us in rescue had heard things about angel wings, and we did nothing. we didn't want to cause trouble, we didn't want to make false accusations about a place that had once been a really good place; we ignored a LOT of warning signs. there needs to be a middle ground between doing nothing, and rushing to judgment. i'm not sure what it is, but i don't want another angel wings. if you're in rescue, you CONSTANTLY hear of rescues and sanctuaries that turn out to be bad, and that fooled a lot of people. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security for the animals, whether education on the disease itself, or on HOW to investigate anyone or place where one might leave an animal who is trusting you to care for them. I never said RR was bad, or absolutely did shift animals onto an overloaded foster home, I just relayed what little information I personaly heard from someone who claimed to have a good, working relationship with RR. So that if anyone had seen them on Animal Planet they wouldn't automatically assume them to be the be-all-end-all (which they may actually be-who knows) just because they were on tv. Speaking as a rescuer myself, who is more than willing to help others ...I prefer to do so when they've exhausted all other avenues...and NOT be their first call...being too good at what you do, can get you in WAY over your head. T TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: exactly. it only takes one person with their own agenda to cause irreparable harm. we were once contacted
Re: Rude Ranch
i didn't think it was a personal attack, either, actually. i thought it was a well-worded reminder to all of us On 2/5/07, tamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Nina, I thought that perhaps the issue I initiated was begining to escalate and just wanted to dead-end any path that might lead to hard feelings. It has never been, nor will it ever be my intention to cause distress or negative emotions to bubble over on the list. Thanks for understanding. T Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tamara, I certainly appreciate your taking the time to post to the list about your personal experience with RR. Your language and tact was in no way interpreted, (certainly not by me) as a definitive slam on them personally. You were very clear about your involvement. It started a lively discussion that I think anyone considering placing an animal will benefit from. Most of the people on this list, if not all, take our responsibility to the animals we rescue very seriously. A little reminder to take a thorough look under the rug is a good thing. Nina tamara stickler wrote: Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Rude Ranch
At 01:20 PM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We do walk a thin line thoughsounds more like Gemini to me though,,lol here i go being terminally libra again--ON THE OTHER paw. this is a pretty closed list, with people particularly attuned to the needs of special-needs cats, so not as public as some. many, many of us in rescue had heard things about angel wings, and we did nothing. we didn't want to cause trouble, we didn't want to make false accusations about a place that had once been a really good place; we ignored a LOT of warning signs. there needs to be a middle ground between doing nothing, and rushing to judgment. i'm not sure what it is, but i don't want another angel wings. if you're in rescue, you CONSTANTLY hear of rescues and sanctuaries that turn out to be bad, and that fooled a lot of people. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security for the animals, whether education on the disease itself, or on HOW to investigate anyone or place where one might leave an animal who is trusting you to care for them. I never said RR was bad, or absolutely did shift animals onto an overloaded foster home, I just relayed what little information I personaly heard from someone who claimed to have a good, working relationship with RR. So that if anyone had seen them on Animal Planet they wouldn't automatically assume them to be the be-all-end-all (which they may actually be-who knows) just because they were on tv. Speaking as a rescuer myself, who is more than willing to help others ...I prefer to do so when they've exhausted all other avenues...and NOT be their first call...being too good at what you do, can get you in WAY over your head. T TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Re: Rude Ranch
At 01:20 PM 2/5/2007, you wrote: Maybe just letting people know to really check out ANY place where you cat ends up...and make appointments to do follow ups, I personally do home checks when I adopt out any kitty or dog, and I do follow ups, One of my kitties. Little came back to me this week, I kept in very close touch with the adopters and it just wasn't working out so I went and got him,I thanked the very nice people for recognizing that it was not the best situationand making sure LITTLE cane home and of course refunded them the adoption feeand offered to let them come visit Little any time, All of this is time consuming but necessary. We have a local rescue I would not leave an animal atShe is overburdened and cannot say no,,I try to help her, and she does the very best she can, Would I turn her in or alert others.. I would never turn her in as the animals are fat and vetted and warm in the winter, It is not ideal, but beats the hell out of the alternativeThey are not caged and they are loved and she does work her butt off getting them adopted, Not to my standards, but then realizing there is a chance they get out and get hit by a car, Yup that could happen, or they could have been held in a shelter and then killed, We do our best, I see so much animosity amongst rescue groups it makes me sad sometimes,l Kelly here i go being terminally libra again--ON THE OTHER paw. this is a pretty closed list, with people particularly attuned to the needs of special-needs cats, so not as public as some. many, many of us in rescue had heard things about angel wings, and we did nothing. we didn't want to cause trouble, we didn't want to make false accusations about a place that had once been a really good place; we ignored a LOT of warning signs. there needs to be a middle ground between doing nothing, and rushing to judgment. i'm not sure what it is, but i don't want another angel wings. if you're in rescue, you CONSTANTLY hear of rescues and sanctuaries that turn out to be bad, and that fooled a lot of people. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO
Re: Rude Ranch
well said. what's really sad is that, with the in-fighting that goes on, people are sometimes afraid to ask for help when they need it. or if they DO ask for it, it's either used against them, or they don't receive it. it IS hard to learn to know your own limits, to say 'no,' especially when we do know what the alternative is, especially for the FIVs and FeLVs. but if we burnt out, and don't care of ourselves, we ultimately end up not being able to take care of ANY of them so if we see good people getting in over their heads, or in temporary trouble (sickness, having surgery, loss of volunteers or fosters), we really need to help them out--in the end, it benefits everyone. it's when people refuse to acknowledge or accept help that bells need to go off. i'm not talking about folks who just don't want to burden others, but those who flat-out refuse any assistance, insisting they can do it themselves when clearly they cannot... the only way this works is if we work together. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:20 PM 2/5/2007, you wrote: Maybe just letting people know to really check out ANY place where you cat ends up...and make appointments to do follow ups, I personally do home checks when I adopt out any kitty or dog, and I do follow ups, One of my kitties. Little came back to me this week, I kept in very close touch with the adopters and it just wasn't working out so I went and got him,I thanked the very nice people for recognizing that it was not the best situationand making sure LITTLE cane home and of course refunded them the adoption feeand offered to let them come visit Little any time, All of this is time consuming but necessary. We have a local rescue I would not leave an animal atShe is overburdened and cannot say no,,I try to help her, and she does the very best she can, Would I turn her in or alert others.. I would never turn her in as the animals are fat and vetted and warm in the winter, It is not ideal, but beats the hell out of the alternativeThey are not caged and they are loved and she does work her butt off getting them adopted, Not to my standards, but then realizing there is a chance they get out and get hit by a car, Yup that could happen, or they could have been held in a shelter and then killed, We do our best, I see so much animosity amongst rescue groups it makes me sad sometimes,l Kelly here i go being terminally libra again--ON THE OTHER paw. this is a pretty closed list, with people particularly attuned to the needs of special-needs cats, so not as public as some. many, many of us in rescue had heard things about angel wings, and we did nothing. we didn't want to cause trouble, we didn't want to make false accusations about a place that had once been a really good place; we ignored a LOT of warning signs. there needs to be a middle ground between doing nothing, and rushing to judgment. i'm not sure what it is, but i don't want another angel wings. if you're in rescue, you CONSTANTLY hear of rescues and sanctuaries that turn out to be bad, and that fooled a lot of people. MC On 2/5/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:51 AM 2/5/2007, you wrote: We can and should only relay facts as we personally know them, and do our best to do it privately if at all possible, If we have misgivings, it is our duty to protect the animals, We all have different standards. My cats have dirt to play in and bushes,,,and it is comfortable for the ferals to have their seclusion, Someone else might not like it, They are litter boxes and grass I need to cleanThe cats love it,,,Regardless, I have just seen to many good rescues hurt my well meaning people imposing their own standards on others, We can email each other off list . and I do it frequently if I do not it is suited to the group. Kelly www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone
RE: Rude Ranch
Haven't chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our cats-she for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take stranger's word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these 'travels' looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the 'collector' for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he was-how could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloaded-going to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many don't even have a home visit to begin with-much less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situations-but it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamara's heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him. Over the last few years, I've looked to this group for so much-and found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some clues when something doesn't seem quite right. So Tamara, thank you from me and from BB (who by the way is now Romeo and sprawled out on my bed-so much for rehoming!) Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have no intention to villify people who care and are trying to help...even when they've lost their way. EDUCATION to those trying to place felv+ cats is the best security
Re: Rude Ranch
yeah, but some of us, who weren't even on this list then, still asked about Big Boy for years after you DIDN'T place him with us! hee hee. On 2/5/07, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our cats—she for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take stranger's word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these 'travels' looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the 'collector' for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he was—how could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloaded—going to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many don't even have a home visit to begin with—much less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situations—but it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamara's heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him… Over the last few years, I've looked to this group for so much—and found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some clues when something doesn't seem quite right… So Tamara, thank you from me and from BB (who by the way is now Romeo and sprawled out on my bed—so much for rehoming!) Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed to...and because she knew them by name and seemed joyed to help them because several other rescue operations I had spoken to recommended her to me, I had no reason to believe that she wasn't telling me the truth. But as saying even the least little thing bad about a place can cause harm, so can saying a place is wonderful My only intention with my original post was to caution. I know I have dropped animals at WONDERFUL shelters in the past, places I personally supported financially for years...then eventually volunteered there only to learn awful things about the running of the organizations (again...NOT referring to Rude Ranch, I've never been THERE)but...If a place seems TOO wonderful, its often too easy to reliquish the care of a beloved animal to it and not feel any guilt. Whereas IF all the facts were researched, perhaps a better place/person could be found if just given a little more time and research. I had/have
RE: Rude Ranch
That's why I can't do rescue! I can't give them up! He's turned into the biggest mush of all! Lives for those head buts!! My ONLY problem with him is that my Tucson, (my other FELV+) has a thing about him and goes after him any chance she gets. He's a real wimpy sort of guy so he would stay hiding someplace if I didn't separate them at some point--not my ideal, believe me! They've really gotten into it a few times--she's a lot bigger than him when she pins him down, he bites her. Caused a couple of trips to the vet---you'd think she'd learn just to leave him alone but she just won't quit. Wish I could talk cat language to know what it is that throws her so much... Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 6:17 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch yeah, but some of us, who weren't even on this list then, still asked about Big Boy for years after you DIDN'T place him with us! hee hee. On 2/5/07, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't chimed in too often lately but just want to offer another perspective. Tamara I were both looking for someplace for one of our cats-she for Simms, me for Big Boy. We touched base with each other to compare notes I remember when this all happened. Being a total neophyte at this, I so appreciated some of the tips Tamara and other members of this group gave me. I remember that what struck me was how frightening the whole process was. I sort of had to take stranger's word that they were going to take care of BB as well as I would have! In these 'travels' looking for a new home for BB, I ran across some pretty scary people. One local guy was the 'collector' for FELV+ cats that showed up in any rescue/shelter. He never let anybody come to his home simply picked up the cats in various parking lots. When I talked to him, he made it clear that he had plenty of cats but would never let anyone even come to inspect, much less visit. Now he may have been wonderful, but who knows?? But everyone raved about what a nice guy he was-how could responsible rescue/shelter workers recommend him so highly if they had never been there??? As far as Rude Ranch, like everyone else, I suspect they are also overloaded-going to fosters sounds great but it takes a lot of work to monitor those fosters. Sadly, my experience with BB search w. my Katrina work, has shown that very few agencies/shelters/rescues ever take a look at their foster--many don't even have a home visit to begin with-much less a visit after they receive animals. I know that most fosters are GREAT situations-but it only takes one poor/marginal one to ruin it for everybody. Tamara's heads up to me way back then saved me a long trip down to Maryland, and more importandly saved me from making what could have been a bad placement for him. Over the last few years, I've looked to this group for so much-and found that everybody could be open honest here. We need to give each other some clues when something doesn't seem quite right. So Tamara, thank you from me and from BB (who by the way is now Romeo and sprawled out on my bed-so much for rehoming!) Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara stickler Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Rude Ranch Hey, I understand. I can understand where both the person who had volunteered to take Simms and Rude Ranch, are coming from. RR has a business to protect for the sake of the animals under its care, and they can only continue if the people who entrust the animals to them continue to help pay for the cats care...I get that. And I understand this woman who agreed to help me, doing so out of the goodness of her heart b/c of her love of animals...I understand and respect that. As for the conditions on her farm and the charges under her care, since they were not up to MY standards, as I believe I would want to live, so I found another alternative for the charge under my care. While I believe that perhaps I should have alerted AC, I didn't because she IS working with all these other rescue organizations. All these places, people, who start with the best of intentions do good work. The level of good is relative to each individual's personal reality. IF what she had said was true about RR shifting cats onto her, which she seemed very proud of- to be able to help...I felt it MIGHT help someone reading about RR to understand that there may be a POSSIBILITY that a cat placed with them, might not stay with them, and if sent away, might not wind up in a place as nice as their's. I admitted in my e-mail that I had no personal knowledge of the workings of Rude Ranch, only relayed my experience with someone who claimed
Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch)
Phaewryn, The web address is http://www.ruderanch.org. Bob and Kathy Rude run quite a place. Some of their cats wouldn't last a second at a publicly-funded shelter due to medical diagnoses such as felv+ or congenital or other disabilities. Bob and Kathy live at the home with all of their furry children. Leah - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch) does rude animal ranch have a website? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch)
Leah, Thank you for the link to Rude Ranch. What a great place. Quite the inspiration. Nina Wolf, Leah R. wrote: Phaewryn, The web address is http://www.ruderanch.org. Bob and Kathy Rude run quite a place. Some of their cats wouldn't last a second at a publicly-funded shelter due to medical diagnoses such as felv+ or congenital or other disabilities. Bob and Kathy live at the home with all of their furry children. Leah - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch) does rude animal ranch have a website? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE--Animal Planet (rude ranch)
does rude animal ranch have a website? Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
