Re: Kitten Update

2007-10-08 Thread Kelley Saveika
Yes, I can tell Giardia and Coccidia from the smell.  They smell
different, but both bad.

On 10/6/07, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well, all diarrhea smells pretty bad. lol.  As I said, I haven't had
 experience with Giardia, but when I used to foster kittens I could tell the
 coccidia smell from something else. lol.
 t

 Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Oh yes, yes it does. Giardia smells horrible. Believe me, I know.

 On 9/30/07, catatonya wrote:
  I don't think Giardia has a specific odor like coccidia, etc It's more
  like a nuisance diarrhea that's not that bad, but just won't go away.
  t
 
  laurieskatz wrote:
 
  I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water.
  Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a
  stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it.
  Laurie
  - Original Message -
  From: MaryChristine
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
 
  kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie,
 isn't
  in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far
 (keeping
  lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know
 it's
  smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget
 it.
  you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem
 just
  from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
  all its own.
 
  i
 
  On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
  
  
   I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because
 I
  don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
  litter. They all weigh over 2 lbs now. Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
  when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him. The two grey
  ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
  crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights. I
 ended
  up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
  couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs. The volunteer who
 had
  it before me was syringe feeding it? But when I got it, it immediately ate
  crunchies first? So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
  eat both now fine. The cat did not need to be syringe fed. I weighed it
  last Saturday and I think it's 2.4 This is my smallest one, but it's
  clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's
 so
  hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!). It's getting more
  longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
  this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
  would tip it over! As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
  he eats and who has a tiny head!
   They are not dripping diarrhea though. As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
  a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
   We are doing a stool sample today. My mom is off work so she is going to
  pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in. Hopefully, we will have some
  answers soon. The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
   -Caroline
  
  
   
  Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: Kitten Update
   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  
  
  
   In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
  kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
  and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it
 to
  the litterbox. That's what has been my experience with coccidia. Kittens
  are often born with coccidia as well. When you've dealt with it you can
  usually tell from the smell. ugh.
  
   With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia. I think a fecal is a good
  idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
  up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
  
   Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet,
 additives,
  stress, etc Are they still hydrated? losing weight? I had one kitten
  we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
  finally just left him alone and they cleared up. I think it was all the
  medicine we were giving him. How old are the kittens again?
  
   t
  
   Kelley Saveika wrote:
   On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
  and
we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I
 don't
know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
  the
volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
  whom I
needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She
 said
she

Re: Kitten Update

2007-10-06 Thread catatonya
Well, all diarrhea smells pretty bad. lol.  As I said, I haven't had experience 
with Giardia, but when I used to foster kittens I could tell the coccidia smell 
from something else. lol.
  t

Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Oh yes, yes it does. Giardia smells horrible. Believe me, I know.

On 9/30/07, catatonya wrote:
 I don't think Giardia has a specific odor like coccidia, etc It's more
 like a nuisance diarrhea that's not that bad, but just won't go away.
 t

 laurieskatz wrote:

 I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water.
 Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a
 stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it.
 Laurie
 - Original Message -
 From: MaryChristine
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
 Subject: Re: Kitten Update

 kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
 in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
 lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
 smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
 you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
 from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
 all its own.

 i

 On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
 
 
  I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
 don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
 litter. They all weigh over 2 lbs now. Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
 when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him. The two grey
 ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
 crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights. I ended
 up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
 couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs. The volunteer who had
 it before me was syringe feeding it? But when I got it, it immediately ate
 crunchies first? So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
 eat both now fine. The cat did not need to be syringe fed. I weighed it
 last Saturday and I think it's 2.4 This is my smallest one, but it's
 clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
 hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!). It's getting more
 longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
 this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
 would tip it over! As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
 he eats and who has a tiny head!
  They are not dripping diarrhea though. As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
 a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
  We are doing a stool sample today. My mom is off work so she is going to
 pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in. Hopefully, we will have some
 answers soon. The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
  -Caroline
 
 
  
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
 kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
 and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
 the litterbox. That's what has been my experience with coccidia. Kittens
 are often born with coccidia as well. When you've dealt with it you can
 usually tell from the smell. ugh.
 
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia. I think a fecal is a good
 idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
 up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
 stress, etc Are they still hydrated? losing weight? I had one kitten
 we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
 finally just left him alone and they cleared up. I think it was all the
 medicine we were giving him. How old are the kittens again?
 
  t
 
  Kelley Saveika wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent

RE: Kitten update Take 2

2007-10-06 Thread catatonya
Hi Caroline,
   
  Did you ever get Yoda's fecal to a vet?  In the meantime I know our shelter 
used to cook rice in chicken broth and give it to kittens with diarrhea.  They 
said it helped.  I don't know if it really did or not, but I used to cook it 
and take it to them.  You might also try keeping yoda totally on wet food and 
mixing it with some canned pumpkin.
   
  Is he eating a variety of foods?  (wet and dry?)  I would switch him to just 
one thing only for a while.
   
  Is h e taking vitamin C?  That can cause diarrhea
   
  tonya

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }
The diarrhea contiunes but it's now mostly affecting Yoda.  The other two will 
have normal poos, and then sometimes soft, cow-pie poos, but they are not 
having the runny, watery, sometimes mucousy diarrhea Yoda is now having.  I'm 
just baffeled.  And upset for him.  I went to scoop him up yesterday and he 
tried to dodge me (he's wiley), so instead of getting scruff or the mid-section 
of his body, I got only his hind quarters and I grabbed on.  Well, the poor 
thing simulanteously let out a baby-bird/girly squeal and also passed gas at 
the same time (really loudly).  I thought some diarrhea may have shot out 
accidently (it hadn't) when I grabbed him because the passing gas noise was so 
loud.  I felt so bad- his tummy must have been bothering him.  So I immediately 
put him in his crate in his litter box and the poor thing immediately had 
really gassy, totally liquidy diarrhea.  I know, it's gross, I'm sorry!  I felt 
so bad for him.  He also had to get a bath yesterday
 morning because his feet were all pooy from a night in the crate- his litter 
box was a mess, he'd had two boughts of diarrhea/cow pies thru the night- I 
couldn't really tell if it was diarrhea because he'd spent a lot of time 
burying them, hence the dirty feet.  He was good for his bath tho!  He's 
getting Immodium AD and it seems to not be working at all!  But he's still 
status quo- eating like a piggy, drinking water, running around and playing 
fine.  I guess I will call the Vet and see what he has to say...
I myself had been sick since Tuesday the 18th!!!  I only took one day off work 
because I thought it was just allergies/change of season, etc., so I didn't go 
to the Dr. because I didn't want to be put on an antibiotic that would just 
destroy my stomach...I pushed myself too much last weekend and ended up with 
laryngitis.  I finally got my voice back last Wed. and thought all was well.  
Well, Friday at work I felt intense muscle pain and my neck hurt, I felt like I 
would throw up-- it was horrible.  I finally just went home early and admitted 
to myself that I had a fever!  No other symptoms besides a fever and just 
feeling like I might die.  So I spent a miserable Fri. night freezing to death 
on my couch.  By Sat. my fever had broke, but I still felt horrible, so it was 
couch-time again.  I think I am all recovered now but my mom is so mad at me 
(for not going to the Dr.) and she says that the kitties and I are all making 
each other sick!-- but she's crazy!  
-Caroline  


-
  Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:45:49 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kitten update Take 2
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

  .ExternalClass DIV  {;}  
  Caroline,
   
  You're post made me LOL!  You're funny!
   
  I am hoping you figure out soon what's going on with your guys, because I'm 
betting it's what's wrong with Ensie.
   
  Keep us posted!
  :)
  Wendy
 
  Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change 
the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade 
~~~
  

  - Original Message 
From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:34:45 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2

.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P  {padding:0px;}  .ExternalClass 
EC_body.hmmessage  {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}I got the results of 
Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the flotation.  Now I don't 
know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that (what do I do!?).  He 
doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda was the first started on 
it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been off it a long time.  I 
was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea while actually on 
Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  Anyway, he said it 
could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not bacterial or parasites.  
He asked about their exposure- which is basically nill, so he was fine with 
that.  He said it could still be giardia because that doesn't show up in a 
fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because giardia is like bubbles 
and you can see them really clearly under a microscope if you

RE: Kitten update Take 2

2007-10-01 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

The diarrhea contiunes but it's now mostly affecting Yoda.  The other two will 
have normal poos, and then sometimes soft, cow-pie poos, but they are not 
having the runny, watery, sometimes mucousy diarrhea Yoda is now having.  I'm 
just baffeled.  And upset for him.  I went to scoop him up yesterday and he 
tried to dodge me (he's wiley), so instead of getting scruff or the mid-section 
of his body, I got only his hind quarters and I grabbed on.  Well, the poor 
thing simulanteously let out a baby-bird/girly squeal and also passed gas at 
the same time (really loudly).  I thought some diarrhea may have shot out 
accidently (it hadn't) when I grabbed him because the passing gas noise was so 
loud.  I felt so bad- his tummy must have been bothering him.  So I immediately 
put him in his crate in his litter box and the poor thing immediately had 
really gassy, totally liquidy diarrhea.  I know, it's gross, I'm sorry!  I felt 
so bad for him.  He also had to get a bath yesterday morning because his feet 
were all pooy from a night in the crate- his litter box was a mess, he'd had 
two boughts of diarrhea/cow pies thru the night- I couldn't really tell if it 
was diarrhea because he'd spent a lot of time burying them, hence the dirty 
feet.  He was good for his bath tho!  He's getting Immodium AD and it seems to 
not be working at all!  But he's still status quo- eating like a piggy, 
drinking water, running around and playing fine.  I guess I will call the Vet 
and see what he has to say...
I myself had been sick since Tuesday the 18th!!!  I only took one day off work 
because I thought it was just allergies/change of season, etc., so I didn't go 
to the Dr. because I didn't want to be put on an antibiotic that would just 
destroy my stomach...I pushed myself too much last weekend and ended up with 
laryngitis.  I finally got my voice back last Wed. and thought all was well.  
Well, Friday at work I felt intense muscle pain and my neck hurt, I felt like I 
would throw up-- it was horrible.  I finally just went home early and admitted 
to myself that I had a fever!  No other symptoms besides a fever and just 
feeling like I might die.  So I spent a miserable Fri. night freezing to death 
on my couch.  By Sat. my fever had broke, but I still felt horrible, so it was 
couch-time again.  I think I am all recovered now but my mom is so mad at me 
(for not going to the Dr.) and she says that the kitties and I are all making 
each other sick!-- but she's crazy!  
-Caroline  


Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:45:49 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update 
Take 2To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org





Caroline,
 
You're post made me LOL!  You're funny!
 
I am hoping you figure out soon what's going on with your guys, because I'm 
betting it's what's wrong with Ensie.
 
Keep us posted!
:)
Wendy 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the 
world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

- Original Message From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:34:45 PMSubject: Kitten update 
Take 2

I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said h...  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).   I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I 
have two thoughs: #1) it's a random virus that they could have picked up when 
we went to Sat. cat adoption day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen 
and they did not meet any of the condo cats at the store, they were in the same 
general area and if it's possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just 
by being in the same area, maybe that's it?  #2

Re: Kitten update Take 2

2007-10-01 Thread Marylyn
Caroline,

This sounds so much like the problems Kitty had with food allergies and 
pancreas problems.  I really think you need to get her checked for those items. 
 You can do an elimination diet fairly easily.  If the pancreas is causing 
problems you want to know it now.

Take care.






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:48 AM
  Subject: RE: Kitten update Take 2



  The diarrhea contiunes but it's now mostly affecting Yoda.  The other two 
will have normal poos, and then sometimes soft, cow-pie poos, but they are not 
having the runny, watery, sometimes mucousy diarrhea Yoda is now having.  I'm 
just baffeled.  And upset for him.  I went to scoop him up yesterday and he 
tried to dodge me (he's wiley), so instead of getting scruff or the mid-section 
of his body, I got only his hind quarters and I grabbed on.  Well, the poor 
thing simulanteously let out a baby-bird/girly squeal and also passed gas at 
the same time (really loudly).  I thought some diarrhea may have shot out 
accidently (it hadn't) when I grabbed him because the passing gas noise was so 
loud.  I felt so bad- his tummy must have been bothering him.  So I immediately 
put him in his crate in his litter box and the poor thing immediately had 
really gassy, totally liquidy diarrhea.  I know, it's gross, I'm sorry!  I felt 
so bad for him.  He also had to get a bath yesterday morning because his feet 
were all pooy from a night in the crate- his litter box was a mess, he'd had 
two boughts of diarrhea/cow pies thru the night- I couldn't really tell if it 
was diarrhea because he'd spent a lot of time burying them, hence the dirty 
feet.  He was good for his bath tho!  He's getting Immodium AD and it seems to 
not be working at all!  But he's still status quo- eating like a piggy, 
drinking water, running around and playing fine.  I guess I will call the Vet 
and see what he has to say...
  I myself had been sick since Tuesday the 18th!!!  I only took one day off 
work because I thought it was just allergies/change of season, etc., so I 
didn't go to the Dr. because I didn't want to be put on an antibiotic that 
would just destroy my stomach...I pushed myself too much last weekend and ended 
up with laryngitis.  I finally got my voice back last Wed. and thought all was 
well.  Well, Friday at work I felt intense muscle pain and my neck hurt, I felt 
like I would throw up-- it was horrible.  I finally just went home early and 
admitted to myself that I had a fever!  No other symptoms besides a fever and 
just feeling like I might die.  So I spent a miserable Fri. night freezing to 
death on my couch.  By Sat. my fever had broke, but I still felt horrible, so 
it was couch-time again.  I think I am all recovered now but my mom is so mad 
at me (for not going to the Dr.) and she says that the kitties and I are all 
making each other sick!-- but she's crazy!  
  -Caroline  




Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:45:49 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kitten update Take 2
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org


Caroline,

You're post made me LOL!  You're funny!

I am hoping you figure out soon what's going on with your guys, because I'm 
betting it's what's wrong with Ensie.

Keep us posted!
:)
Wendy
 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change 
the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade 
~~~



- Original Message 
From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:34:45 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2

I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles

RE: Kitten update Take 2

2007-10-01 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I talked to the Vet today and he says it could be bacterial enteritis so he had 
prescribed a medicine that I am picking up today to treat Yoda with.  The vet 
says we will try that and if that doesn't clear up the diarrhea, Yoda will go 
in for further testing, smears, etc.  So, I'm going to give it a try.  Yoda is 
not in distress and he's still eating and playing fine-- seems to be loving 
life-- so as long as he feels good, I am going to stick with this game plan.  
It's just a little frustrating.  I like to have all completely healthy kitties 
so I can brag!  I'm just kidding...kind of.  
 
I took pictures of them this weekend, so once we get them loaded on the 
computer, I would like to share them.  Each of the three kittens I have all 
have completely unique, different faces...it's beautiful and interesting to 
think about how they have such unique faces...which also translates into unique 
personalities.  It's kind of scary.   
-Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update Take 2Date: Mon, 
1 Oct 2007 11:32:26 -0500



Caroline,
 
This sounds so much like the problems Kitty had with food allergies and 
pancreas problems.  I really think you need to get her checked for those items. 
 You can do an elimination diet fairly easily.  If the pancreas is causing 
problems you want to know it now.
 
Take care.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures 
from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who  
will deal likewise with their fellow man.   
   St. Francis

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Kitten update Take 2
The diarrhea contiunes but it's now mostly affecting Yoda.  The other two will 
have normal poos, and then sometimes soft, cow-pie poos, but they are not 
having the runny, watery, sometimes mucousy diarrhea Yoda is now having.  I'm 
just baffeled.  And upset for him.  I went to scoop him up yesterday and he 
tried to dodge me (he's wiley), so instead of getting scruff or the mid-section 
of his body, I got only his hind quarters and I grabbed on.  Well, the poor 
thing simulanteously let out a baby-bird/girly squeal and also passed gas at 
the same time (really loudly).  I thought some diarrhea may have shot out 
accidently (it hadn't) when I grabbed him because the passing gas noise was so 
loud.  I felt so bad- his tummy must have been bothering him.  So I immediately 
put him in his crate in his litter box and the poor thing immediately had 
really gassy, totally liquidy diarrhea.  I know, it's gross, I'm sorry!  I felt 
so bad for him.  He also had to get a bath yesterday morning because his feet 
were all pooy from a night in the crate- his litter box was a mess, he'd had 
two boughts of diarrhea/cow pies thru the night- I couldn't really tell if it 
was diarrhea because he'd spent a lot of time burying them, hence the dirty 
feet.  He was good for his bath tho!  He's getting Immodium AD and it seems to 
not be working at all!  But he's still status quo- eating like a piggy, 
drinking water, running around and playing fine.  I guess I will call the Vet 
and see what he has to say...I myself had been sick since Tuesday the 18th!!!  
I only took one day off work because I thought it was just allergies/change of 
season, etc., so I didn't go to the Dr. because I didn't want to be put on an 
antibiotic that would just destroy my stomach...I pushed myself too much last 
weekend and ended up with laryngitis.  I finally got my voice back last Wed. 
and thought all was well.  Well, Friday at work I felt intense muscle pain and 
my neck hurt, I felt like I would throw up-- it was horrible.  I finally just 
went home early and admitted to myself that I had a fever!  No other symptoms 
besides a fever and just feeling like I might die.  So I spent a miserable Fri. 
night freezing to death on my couch.  By Sat. my fever had broke, but I still 
felt horrible, so it was couch-time again.  I think I am all recovered now but 
my mom is so mad at me (for not going to the Dr.) and she says that the kitties 
and I are all making each other sick!-- but she's crazy!  -Caroline  


Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:45:49 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update 
Take 2To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org




Caroline,
 
You're post made me LOL!  You're funny!
 
I am hoping you figure out soon what's going on with your guys, because I'm 
betting it's what's wrong with Ensie.
 
Keep us posted!
:)
Wendy 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the 
world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~

- Original Message From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
[EMAIL

RE: Kitten Update

2007-09-30 Thread catatonya
I was just going to say that really small kittens can dehydrate very quickly.  
It doesn't sound like the diarrhea is severe enough to be causing dehydration 
or you would be seeing it.  I hope the fecal gives you some info.
  t

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }
I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I don't 
have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same litter.  
They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day when I took 
him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones are smaller, 
but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last Sat., I 
didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one long 
haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when
 they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so 
the cat is really funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny 
mid-section and this big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed 
to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to pick 
up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some answers 
soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 


-
  Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kitten Update
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh.
   
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
   
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
   
  t

Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
 My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
 Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
 we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
 know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
 volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
 needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
 she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
 up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
 in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
come in to our local kill shelter.
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!



  
-
  Get news

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-30 Thread catatonya
I don't think Giardia has a specific odor like coccidia, etc  It's more 
like a nuisance diarrhea that's not that bad,  but just won't go away.
  t

laurieskatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty 
water. Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in 
a stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it. 
  Laurie
- Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  

kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't in 
every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping lots 
and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's smell, 
but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it. you know 
on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just from the 
smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma all its own. 

i 

  On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I don't 
have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same litter.  
They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day when I took 
him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones are smaller, 
but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last Sat., I 
didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one long 
haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when
 they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so 
the cat is really funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny 
mid-section and this big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed 
to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to pick 
up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some answers 
soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 


-
  Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kitten Update
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   

  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh. 
   
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
   
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again? 
   
  t

Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
 My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
 Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and 
 we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
 know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
 volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I 
 needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
 she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
 up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them 
 in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after 
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-30 Thread Kelley Saveika
Oh yes, yes it does.  Giardia smells horrible.  Believe me, I know.

On 9/30/07, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't think Giardia has a specific odor like coccidia, etc  It's more
 like a nuisance diarrhea that's not that bad,  but just won't go away.
 t

 laurieskatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water.
 Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a
 stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it.
 Laurie
 - Original Message -
 From: MaryChristine
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
 Subject: Re: Kitten Update

 kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
 in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
 lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
 smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
 you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
 from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
 all its own.

 i

 On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
 don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
 litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
 when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey
 ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
 crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended
 up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
 couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
 it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
 crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
 eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
 last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
 clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
 hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
 longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
 this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
 would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
 he eats and who has a tiny head!
  They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
 a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
  We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
 pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
 answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
  -Caroline
 
 
  
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
 kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
 and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
 the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
 are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
 usually tell from the smell. ugh.
 
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
 idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
 up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
 stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
 we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
 finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
 medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
 
  t
 
  Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
  - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after

Re: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-30 Thread wendy
Caroline,

You're post made me LOL!  You're funny!

I am hoping you figure out soon what's going on with your guys, because I'm 
betting it's what's wrong with Ensie.

Keep us posted!
:)
Wendy
 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the 
world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~



- Original Message 
From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:34:45 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2

I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a
 few seconds, they start to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is 
how he described it.  I told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said 
h...  He wanted to know when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He 
said that is not too much time so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving 
them all Liquid Immodium AD- 1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we 
will try some other things (I guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- just 
a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at work 
so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had them.  I 
don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat just ate 
too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels with 
them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I now got 
my coop cups in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing our 
crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about my 
online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that I 
couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities are 
just more admirable now!  I also got my Just Born in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline 



Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!


   

Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the 
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

RE: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread catatonya
It's been a while since I've dealt with kittens, but in my fairly long ago 
memory, albon rarely touched the coccidia.  I know I've had kittens on 
metronidazole for it.  (flagyl)
  t

Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }I did read that coccidia has a 13 
day incubation period.  And yes, I needed approval to be able to take a stool 
sample into the vet that treats the cats for this group, if I want to be 
charged the discounted rate (which as a foster, I feel is only fair).  I could 
take the cats to my own vet or another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted 
rate.  The whole thing is pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do 
the best I can.  And I don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats 
she has, as the situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these 
kittens because they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even 
with just terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with and 
may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone first.   
-Caroline 

 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: Kitten Update
 
 On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
  Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
  we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
  know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
  volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
  needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
  she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
  up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
  in.
 
 That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
 and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
 - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
 they had been there a month.
 
 In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
 in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
 doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
 
 You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
 
 It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
 their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
 come in to our local kill shelter.
 -- 
 Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
 
 http://www.rescuties.org
 
 Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
 
 http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
 
 Please help George!
 
 http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
 
 I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
 
 Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
 Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
 


  
-
  Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now! 


Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread Kelley Saveika
See, my vet says flagyl does nothing for coccidia.  Coccidia needs
sulfa based drugs to kill it.

Flagyl kills giardia.  Sometimes.  It doesn't kill the giardia I've
had in my house forever.  Nothing else does, either.

On 9/28/07, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's been a while since I've dealt with kittens, but in my fairly long ago
 memory, albon rarely touched the coccidia.  I know I've had kittens on
 metronidazole for it.  (flagyl)
 t


 Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed
 approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats
 for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a
 foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
 another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
 pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
 don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
 situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
 they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
 terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
 They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
 and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
 first.
 -Caroline

  Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
 
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
  - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
  they had been there a month.
 
  In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
  in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
  doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
 
  You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
 
  It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
  their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
  come in to our local kill shelter.
  --
  Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
 
  http://www.rescuties.org
 
  Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
 
  http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
 
  Please help George!
 
  http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
 
  I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
 
  Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
  Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
 


 
 Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!



-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!



RE: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I don't 
have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same litter.  
They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day when I took 
him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones are smaller, 
but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last Sat., I 
didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one long 
haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when they are tiny and 
have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so the cat is really 
funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny mid-section and this 
big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a 
fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to pick 
up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some answers 
soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten 
UpdateTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh.
 
With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good idea, 
but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I don't 
think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
 
tKelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: My three kittens are status-quo. I 
started them on a probiotic made by Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've 
had a day and a half of that and we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow 
pies (and stinky!). I don't know how long it takes the probiotic to work 
though? I have talked to the volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally 
had these kittens and whom I needed to obtain approval from before taking in a 
stool sample. She said she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks 
it would have shown up earlier because she had them at her house for a while 
before I took them in.That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common 
in kittens,and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at 
all- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia afterthey had 
been there a month.In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken 
a kittenin for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool 
sampledoesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).You need to get approval?? 
Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 
or 30 (or more) cats intheir houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the 
cats thatcome in to our local kill shelter.-- Rescuties - Saving the world, one 
cat at a time.http://www.rescuties.orgVist the Rescuties store and save a kitty 
life!http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20Please help 
George!http://rescuties.chipin.com/georgeI GoodSearch for Rescuties.Raise money 
for your favorite charity or school just by searching theInternet with 
GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
_
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread MaryChristine
kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
all its own.

i

On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
 don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
 litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor
 Day when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two
 grey ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was
 so crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I
 ended up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
 couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
 it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
 crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
 eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
 last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
 clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
 hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
 longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
 this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
 would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
 he eats and who has a tiny head!
 They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
 a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
 We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
 pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
 answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
 -Caroline

  --
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Kitten Update
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

 In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
 kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
 and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
 the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
 are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
 usually tell from the smell. ugh.

 With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
 idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
 up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.

 Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
 stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
 we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
 finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
 medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?

 t

 *Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
  My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
  Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
  we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
  know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
  volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
  needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
  she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
  up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
  in.

 That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
 and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
 - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
 they had been there a month.

 In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
 in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
 doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

 You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

 It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
 their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
 come in to our local kill shelter.
 --
 Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

 http://www.rescuties.org

 Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

 http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

 Please help George!

 http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

 I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

 Raise money for your

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread Kelley Saveika
Giardia is hard to find.  That's how it got into my house.  My Ciara,
who I later had to send to the bridge due to inoperable/untreatable
mouth cancer, had giardia..the sample came back clean, so it was
diagnosed as IBD.  (not by my regular vet, this is what swore me off
going to cheap vets, but really he could have missed the giardia too).
  EVERY cat in my house was exposed and I have been battling it ever
since.  I can scrub my floor w/bleach one night and get home from work
the next day and have 15-20 piles of diarrhea on it.  It is horrible.
My house smells ungodly. Of course my sense of smell is so compromised
by this time I can barely smell it, but even the barely part smells
ungodly.



On 9/28/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
 in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
 lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
 smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
 you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
 from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
 all its own.

 i


 On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
 don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
 litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
 when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey
 ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
 crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended
 up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
 couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
 it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
 crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
 eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
 last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
 clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
 hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
 longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
 this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
 would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
 he eats and who has a tiny head!
  They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
 a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
  We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
 pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
 answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
  -Caroline
 
 
  
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
 kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
 and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
 the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
 are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
 usually tell from the smell. ugh.
 
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
 idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
 up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
 stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
 we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
 finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
 medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
 
  t
 
  Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread Kelley Saveika
Giardia is a parasite.  You can get it from drinking dirty water, and
that is a common way for humans to get it.

Dogs and cats can also get it from drinking dirty water..but they can
also get it from licking their feet after being in the litterbox..from
licking their butts...from sniffing the poop with giardia in it...

It is treatable with flagyl..but it can also burrow into the
intestines and come out later..it is a PITA ...

On 9/28/07, laurieskatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water.
 Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a
 stool sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it.
 Laurie

 - Original Message -
 From: MaryChristine
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
 Subject: Re: Kitten Update

 kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't
 in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping
 lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's
 smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it.
 you know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just
 from the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma
 all its own.

 i

 On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I
 don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same
 litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day
 when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey
 ones are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so
 crazy last Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended
 up with one long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and
 couldn't get fixed yet because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had
 it before me was syringe feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate
 crunchies first?  So I started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will
 eat both now fine.  The cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it
 last Saturday and I think it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's
 clearly gained weight since I have had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so
 hard to tell when they are tiny and have long hair!).  It's getting more
 longer than fatter so the cat is really funny-looking now because it has
 this long, lean skinny mid-section and this big head that looks like it
 would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a fat snake belly everytime
 he eats and who has a tiny head!
  They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was
 a little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.
  We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to
 pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some
 answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
  -Caroline
 
 
  
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 
 
 
  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the
 kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends
 and back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to
 the litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens
 are often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can
 usually tell from the smell. ugh.
 
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good
 idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows
 up, I don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
 
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives,
 stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten
 we put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we
 finally just left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the
 medicine we were giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
 
  t
 
  Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread catatonya
In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh.
   
  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.
   
  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again?
   
  t

Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
 My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
 Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
 we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
 know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to the
 volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
 needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
 she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
 up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
 in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
come in to our local kill shelter.
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!




Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-28 Thread laurieskatz
I don't remember Giardia odor but think it's from drinking dirty water. 
Treatable...I think with antibiotics. I don't recall vets finding it in a stool 
sample...just that we've treated cats with diarrhea for it. 
Laurie
  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update


  kelley, remind me on giardia--is that one that isn't easy to find (ie, isn't 
in every sample?) i know that's the case with coccidia.. so far (keeping 
lots and lots of paws crossed), i've never had giardia, so i don't know it's 
smell, but once you've had coccidia in your house, you never forget it. you 
know on csi and similar programs, they can tell the illness/problem just from 
the smell? coccidia is like that. tri-trich has a different aroma all its 
own. 

  i 


  On 9/28/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think they are June babies, but don't know the dates for sure because I 
don't have their records with me and I don't think they are from the same 
litter.  They all weigh over 2 lbs now.  Yoda shot up from 2.4 at Labor Day 
when I took him in to 3.6 last Saturday when I weighed him.  The two grey ones 
are smaller, but I need to reweigh them because adoption day was so crazy last 
Sat., I didn't get a chance to write down their weights.  I ended up with one 
long haired grey one because it wouldn't gain weight and couldn't get fixed yet 
because it didn't weigh 2 lbs.  The volunteer who had it before me was syringe 
feeding it?  But when I got it, it immediately ate crunchies first?  So I 
started mixing wet and dry with that cat and it will eat both now fine.  The 
cat did not need to be syringe fed.  I  weighed it last Saturday and I think 
it's 2.4  This is my smallest one, but it's clearly gained weight since I have 
had it (we think it's a boy, but it's so hard to tell when they are tiny and 
have long hair!).  It's getting more longer than fatter so the cat is really 
funny-looking now because it has this long, lean skinny mid-section and this 
big head that looks like it would tip it over!  As opposed to Yoda who gets a 
fat snake belly everytime he eats and who has a tiny head!  
They are not dripping diarrhea though.  As of yesterday, the diarrhea was a 
little worse tho in all of them- more watery, less cow pie-like.  
We are doing a stool sample today.  My mom is off work so she is going to 
pick up a Yoda stool sample and take that in.  Hopefully, we will have some 
answers soon.  The smelly poo is driving me crazy!
-Caroline 



--
  Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:48:07 -0700
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org



  In my experience though, coccidia gets really bad, really fast. i.e. the 
kittens are basically dripping diarrheaThey get it on their rear ends and 
back legs and have to be bathed frequently, etcThey don't make it to the 
litterbox.   That's what has been my experience with coccidia.  Kittens are 
often born with coccidia as well.  When you've dealt with it you can usually 
tell from the smell. ugh. 

  With soft stools a lot of times it's giardia.  I think a fecal is a good 
idea, but if the stools are not as I described above, or if nothing shows up, I 
don't think I'd add another med. at this time.

  Lots of kittens just have loose stools due to changes in diet, additives, 
stress, etc  Are they still hydrated? losing weight?  I had one kitten we 
put through the ringer trying to diagnose his loose stools, and we finally just 
left him alone and they cleared up.  I think it was all the medicine we were 
giving him.  How old are the kittens again? 

  t

  Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
 My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
 Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that 
and 
 we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I 
don't
 know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to 
the
 volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and 
whom I 
 needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She 
said
 she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have 
shown
 up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I 
took them 
 in.

That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after 
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal

Re: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-28 Thread Sherry DeHaan
Hi Caroline,I have never heard of them needing a sample straight from the cats 
butt to check for Giardia.I have left samples in the fridge at the shelter for 
it to be checked and it showed up in my Genevieves when I first brought her 
home.And thank goodness none of the boys caught it!!
Sherry
Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  
padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }I 
got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them
 really clearly under a microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty 
much from butt to microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few 
seconds, they start to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how 
he described it.  I told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said 
h...  He wanted to know when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He 
said that is not too much time so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving 
them all Liquid Immodium AD- 1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we 
will try some other things (I guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- just 
a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at work 
so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had them.  I 
don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat just ate 
too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels with 
them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I now got 
my coop cups in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing our 
crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about my 
online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that I 
couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities are 
just more admirable now!  I also got my Just Born in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline 

  
-
  Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! 

   
-
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Re: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-28 Thread laurieskatz
poor baby.
could it be a food allergy?
 ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie
  - Original Message - 
  From: Caroline Kaufmann 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
  Subject: Kitten update Take 2 


  I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said h...  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).  
   
  I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
   
  I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He 
was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
   
  If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!  
   
  One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- 
just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at 
work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had 
them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat 
just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole!
   
  A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels 
with them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I 
now got my coop cups in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing 
our crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about 
my online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that 
I couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities 
are just more admirable now!  I also got my Just Born in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
   
  -Caroline 


--
  Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! 

Re: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-28 Thread Marylyn
The food allergy is a really good thought.  The Royal Princess Kitty Katt 
developed one at about 12 years of age + developed a problem processing fatty 
foods.  Really big problems odorwise.  Try an elimination diet? 






 If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
 from the shelter of compassion 
and pity, you will have men who 
 will deal likewise with their 
fellow man.
  St. Francis
  - Original Message - 
  From: laurieskatz 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Kitten update Take 2 


  poor baby.
  could it be a food allergy?
   ibd?
  can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
  I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
  www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
  My best.
  So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
  Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 


I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said h...  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).  
 
I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I have two thoughs: #1) it's a 
random virus that they could have picked up when we went to Sat. cat adoption 
day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen and they did not meet any of 
the condo cats at the store, they were in the same general area and if it's 
possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just by being in the same 
area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will need Yoda's actual 
butt to diagnosis it!
 
I came home early from work and Yoda had yet another diarrhea in his box.  
He was eating dry crunchies when I came in.  I immediately gave everyone their 
Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and Yoda had two more separate piles of 
even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to mention, he trashed his crate 
afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He gets away with it because he's 
cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I know I need to give the 
Immodium more of a chance...but still?!  
 
If it continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, 
here's his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of 
like 2 minutes!  
 
One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this morning-- 
just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while I was at 
work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've had 
them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the cat 
just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole!
 
A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I rested on my laurels 
with them after we beat the URIs so I probably deserve this!  Happily tho, I 
now got my coop cups in the mail so no more spilling our waters and trashing 
our crates and barfing in our waters!  I'm so excited!  I get as excited about 
my online pet-care deliveries as I used to get about my clothing purchases that 
I couldn't afford!  I guess that means I've matured?  Or maybe my priorities 
are just more admirable now!  I also got my Just Born in the mail and I'm 
starting them on that tonight!
 
-Caroline

RE: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-28 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I have no idea?  I guess I just have to wait and see and keep working the vet.  
I can always take him to Monkee's Holistic Vet next week if we don't get 
anywhere with the regular vet.  Second opinion.
 
I'll tell him you sent his regards, but I don't think he will care!  The 
funniest thing is that the little monster feels fine!  He's super Yoda!  He's 
eating like a pig still, drinking water (out of his coup cup already!) and 
sleeping normally.  He plays like a maniac...attacking the other kittens like 
it's his job.  He wrestles with Izzee and continues to scream like a little 
baby girl when they are going at it (his usual routine)!  He just has diarrhea 
after he eatsbut he doesn't seem to care!  He acts like nothing is out of 
order.  He cracks me up.  And I know what he is like when he is ill because 
that is the condition he first came to me in...struggling to breathe, wanting 
to sleep all the time, but having restless sleep, never playing at all...just 
wanting to lay on my chest and be a sick-baby and wanting Izzee to cuddle him 
(which she wanted nothing to do with!).  Those days are long gone and I miss 
them, but know it's better to have a maniac cat on my hands then a sicky-poo!  
Hopefully, because of this history with him, I will be able to tell if/when 
he's starting to feel really crappy.
 
-Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update Take 2 Date: Fri, 
28 Sep 2007 16:38:13 -0600



poor baby.
could it be a food allergy? ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 
I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said h...  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).   I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I 
have two thoughs: #1) it's a random virus that they could have picked up when 
we went to Sat. cat adoption day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen 
and they did not meet any of the condo cats at the store, they were in the same 
general area and if it's possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just 
by being in the same area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will 
need Yoda's actual butt to diagnosis it! I came home early from work and Yoda 
had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He was eating dry crunchies when I came 
in.  I immediately gave everyone their Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and 
Yoda had two more separate piles of even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to 
mention, he trashed his crate afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He 
gets away with it because he's cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I 
know I need to give the Immodium more of a chance...but still?!   If it 
continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, here's 
his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of like 2 
minutes!   One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this 
morning-- just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while 
I was at work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've 
had them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the 
cat just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole! A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I

RE: Kitten update Take 2

2007-09-28 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I have no idea?  I guess I just have to wait and see and keep working the vet.  
I can always take him to Monkee's Holistic Vet next week if we don't get 
anywhere with the regular vet.  Second opinion.
 
I'll tell him you sent his regards, but I don't think he will care!  The 
funniest thing is that the little monster feels fine!  He's super Yoda!  He's 
eating like a pig still, drinking water (out of his coup cup already!) and 
sleeping normally.  He plays like a maniac...attacking the other kittens like 
it's his job.  He wrestles with Izzee and continues to scream like a little 
baby girl when they are going at it (his usual routine)!  He just has diarrhea 
after he eatsbut he doesn't seem to care!  He acts like nothing is out of 
order.  He cracks me up.  And I know what he is like when he is ill because 
that is the condition he first came to me in...struggling to breathe, wanting 
to sleep all the time, but having restless sleep, never playing at all...just 
wanting to lay on my chest and be a sick-baby and wanting Izzee to cuddle him 
(which she wanted nothing to do with!).  Those days are long gone and I miss 
them, but know it's better to have a maniac cat on my hands then a sicky-poo!  
Hopefully, because of this history with him, I will be able to tell if/when 
he's starting to feel really crappy.
 
-Caroline 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: Kitten update Take 2 Date: Fri, 
28 Sep 2007 16:38:13 -0600



poor baby.
could it be a food allergy? ibd?
can you feed him an unusual protein to see if that helps?
I had an ibd cat for 6 years. Finally, home prepared food did the trick.
www.catnutrition.org has a great recipe.
My best.
So frustrating for ou and scarey for him. He must not feel very good...sweet 
baby. prayers for you both.
Laurie

- Original Message - 
From: Caroline Kaufmann 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Kitten update Take 2 
I got the results of Yoda's fecal back and it's totally negative- even the 
flotation.  Now I don't know what to do and I pretty much told the Doctor that 
(what do I do!?).  He doesn't seem to think it's from the antibiotic.  Yoda 
was the first started on it at Labor Day and he was on it 10 days, so he's been 
off it a long time.  I was also surprised that none of the kittens had diarrhea 
while actually on Amoxy (Monkee always got soft stools when on Clavamox).  
Anyway, he said it could be a virus of some kind, but it's definitely not 
bacterial or parasites.  He asked about their exposure- which is basically 
nill, so he was fine with that.  He said it could still be giardia because that 
doesn't show up in a fecal-- that they need the sample immediately because 
giardia is like bubbles and you can see them really clearly under a 
microscope if you get the sample immediately-- pretty much from butt to 
microscope (that's what he said- not me)-- but within a few seconds, they start 
to burst I guess and then you can't see them.  This is how he described it.  I 
told him the diarrhea smells HORRIBLE and he said h...  He wanted to know 
when it started and I guessed about Monday.  He said that is not too much time 
so he isn't worried yet.  He said to try giving them all Liquid Immodium AD- 
1/4 teaspoon and see if that helps.  If not, we will try some other things (I 
guess looking for giardia).   I'm going to give it this weekend I guess.  I 
have two thoughs: #1) it's a random virus that they could have picked up when 
we went to Sat. cat adoption day.  Although I kept all mine in a separate pen 
and they did not meet any of the condo cats at the store, they were in the same 
general area and if it's possible they could get an airborne stomach virus just 
by being in the same area, maybe that's it?  #2) it's giardia and the vet will 
need Yoda's actual butt to diagnosis it! I came home early from work and Yoda 
had yet another diarrhea in his box.  He was eating dry crunchies when I came 
in.  I immediately gave everyone their Immodium.  No sooner had I done that and 
Yoda had two more separate piles of even runnier, smellier diarrhea (and not to 
mention, he trashed his crate afterward-- he does it on purpose)!  Urgh.  He 
gets away with it because he's cuter than cute and the lil b*stard knows it!  I 
know I need to give the Immodium more of a chance...but still?!   If it 
continues this weekend, I will just drop Yoda off on Monday and say, here's 
his butt...have at it; I'm sure he'll give you a 'sample' in all of like 2 
minutes!   One of grey ones that are crated together threw up dry food this 
morning-- just a little bit of it and into their water bowl.  It happened while 
I was at work so I don't know who did it.  No one has ever thrown up since I've 
had them.  I don't know if it means anything tho-- it really looked like the 
cat just ate too fast without chewing because the crunchies were all pratically 
whole! A kittens...they are so much trouble!  I guess I

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-27 Thread Kelley Saveika
On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My three kittens are status-quo.  I started them on a probiotic made by
 Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that and
 we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!).  I don't
 know how long it takes the probiotic to work though?  I have talked to the
 volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and whom I
 needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample.  She said
 she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have shown
 up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took them
 in.

That isn't necessarily true.  Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
- they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
they had been there a month.

In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).

You need to get approval??   Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?

It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
their houses, by the way.  They kill close to 70% of the cats that
come in to our local kill shelter.
-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!



RE: Kitten Update

2007-09-27 Thread Caroline Kaufmann

I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed 
approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats 
for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a foster, 
I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or another vet, but 
I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is pretty messed up- kinda 
disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I don't necessarily have a 
problem with the number of cats she has, as the situation in which they are 
kept.  I ended up with these kittens because they all had URIs that she was not 
treating them for- not even with just terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with and 
may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone first.   
-Caroline  Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Kitten Update  On 9/27/07, Caroline 
Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  My three kittens are status-quo. I 
started them on a probiotic made by  Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've 
had a day and a half of that and  we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow 
pies (and stinky!). I don't  know how long it takes the probiotic to work 
though? I have talked to the  volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally 
had these kittens and whom I  needed to obtain approval from before taking in 
a stool sample. She said  she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she 
thinks it would have shown  up earlier because she had them at her house for 
a while before I took them  in.  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is 
so very common in kittens, and I have sent kittens to a clean environment 
(no other cats at all - they are the only cat) and had them come down with 
coccidia after they had been there a month.  In fact, coccidia is so common 
that every time I have taken a kitten in for a fecal, they have prescribed 
Albon even if the stool sample doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).  
You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?  It isn't 
uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in their houses, by the 
way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that come in to our local kill 
shelter. --  Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.  
http://www.rescuties.org  Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!  
http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20  Please help George!  
http://rescuties.chipin.com/george  I GoodSearch for Rescuties.  Raise 
money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with 
GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! 
_
Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-ussource=wlmailtagline

Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-27 Thread Kelley Saveika
Yes, that makes sense.

I have a vet that only charges $15 for a fecal, but I know other vets
charge more.

And almost all rescue groups are disorganized.   I've been told I am
one of the most organized ones, and I'm terribly disorganized - there
just are not enough hours in the day.


On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I needed
 approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats the cats
 for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which as a
 foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
 another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
 pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
 don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
 situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
 they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
 terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
 They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
 and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
 first.
 -Caroline

  Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update

 
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
  - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
  they had been there a month.
 
  In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
  in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
  doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
 
  You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
 
  It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
  their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
  come in to our local kill shelter.
  --
  Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
 
  http://www.rescuties.org
 
  Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
 
  http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
 
  Please help George!
 
  http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
 
  I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
 
  Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
  Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
 


 
 Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!



Re: Kitten Update

2007-09-27 Thread MaryChristine
another thing to look for in the archives is trichomonas--becoming much more
of a problem in cats in just the last couple of years, and producer of
really stinky poo. phaewyrn had posted all the current research awhile
back, but i'm not sure she kept updating it--there's new tests since then
(dr gookin's pouch test; you can search the web for more). h, don't see
it on her page; for those who are newer, this is a GREAT resource:

http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html

On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I did read that coccidia has a 13 day incubation period.  And yes, I
 needed approval to be able to take a stool sample into the vet that treats
 the cats for this group, if I want to be charged the discounted rate (which
 as a foster, I feel is only fair).  I could take the cats to my own vet or
 another vet, but I wouldn't get the discounted rate.  The whole thing is
 pretty messed up- kinda disorganized, so I just do the best I can.  And I
 don't necessarily have a problem with the number of cats she has, as the
 situation in which they are kept.  I ended up with these kittens because
 they all had URIs that she was not treating them for- not even with just
 terramycin or a triple antibiotic.
 They keep Albon in stock and I can get my hands on that to treat them with
 and may just end up doing that anyway.  But I need to re-weigh everyone
 first.
 -Caroline

  Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:17:52 -0500
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: Kitten Update
 
  On 9/27/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   My three kittens are status-quo. I started them on a probiotic made by
   Eagle Brand on Tues. evening, so they've had a day and a half of that
 and
   we're still having diarrhea/soft stools/cow pies (and stinky!). I
 don't
   know how long it takes the probiotic to work though? I have talked to
 the
   volunteer of the Adoption group- who originally had these kittens and
 whom I
   needed to obtain approval from before taking in a stool sample. She
 said
   she doubts it's coccidia or girardia because she thinks it would have
 shown
   up earlier because she had them at her house for a while before I took
 them
   in.
 
  That isn't necessarily true. Coccidia is so very common in kittens,
  and I have sent kittens to a clean environment (no other cats at all
  - they are the only cat) and had them come down with coccidia after
  they had been there a month.
 
  In fact, coccidia is so common that every time I have taken a kitten
  in for a fecal, they have prescribed Albon even if the stool sample
  doesn't show any (it can be hard to detect).
 
  You need to get approval?? Before taking a kitten in for a fecal?
 
  It isn't uncommon for rescuers to have 20 or 30 (or more) cats in
  their houses, by the way. They kill close to 70% of the cats that
  come in to our local kill shelter.
  --
  Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
 
  http://www.rescuties.org
 
  Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
 
  http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
 
  Please help George!
 
  http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
 
  I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
 
  Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
  Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
 


 --
 Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!
 http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-ussource=wlmailtagline




-- 

Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892


Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread Nina

Hi Leslie,
I haven't been able to keep up with the list, I'm betting others with 
more knowledge than I have posted about potential FIP risks to Powder.  
From what I understand about it, there are genetic risks involved that 
take most of the protection against it out of our hands.  All I can say 
is that giving Powder a chance in your loving home would seem to 
outweigh your concerns.  A shelter situation would certainly expose her 
to greater health risks than Satchmo alone.  Maybe I'm operating from 
the ridiculous premise of it just wouldn't be fair, but I think Powder 
is better off with you no matter what happens because of it. 

You asked about success stories...  My little Timmy and his brother 
Lucky were 2 of 6 kittens born with felv.  We didn't find out the litter 
was pos until the first kitten died.  Lucky has never been tested, (he 
was adopted out and they decided they didn't care what the result of the 
test was, they were just going to love and care for him), and Tim tested 
neg when he was finally tested at about 6mos.  They are going on 3 yrs 
now and are both healthy and strong, (the other 4 kittens died between 
6mos and 2 yrs old).  I think your philosophy of taking each day as a 
blessing and being grateful for whatever time you have, (while remaining 
proactive and optimistic), is the best one we can have under any 
circumstance.  I am sure that my little felv angels were part of my life 
to help me with just this lesson.  Blessings and thanks to all our 
special needs loved ones and all those that have the courage to care for 
them!


When does Powder come home?
Nina

Leslie wrote:


Hello, it's Leslie again,
 
So here's the FeLV+ kitten update from the Humane Society:  I went to 
visit and play with both kittens last Wednesday and they were so 
cute.  Incredibly active, curious, friendly.  The volunteer and I 
talked about my situation a lot and we agreed that since they are 
together, it would be ideal to get them a home together.  I can't take 
them both, so I decided to let fate take a hand.  Yesterday was my day 
to volunteer with the dogs, but every 30 minutes or so, I'd wander 
back over to the cat side and give them a scratch. 
 
Since I'm obsessive, I check the website hourly, and at 6 pm last 
night, Trixie was taken off of it - meaning that she'd found a home!  
That leaves Powder (the bobtail) and the one that pulled my heart 
strings a just a little tighter, truth be told.
 
I'm going to call the humane society when they open in an hour and 
confirm that it wasn't a computer glitch.
 
So now that it looks like I will be taking Powder, I have one question 
and one request. 
 
The question:  my last + cat to pass, Hepburn, was taken down by FIP, 
she had the wet variety, potbelly and all.  So whether or not my 
current + guy, Satchmo, introduced it to her, he was certainly exposed 
to it before I knew what she had.  Should I worry about this in 
introducing a + kitten to him?  I would feel just awful about giving 
something to a cat that I'm trying to help.  What do you think?
 
The request:  I know that it's riskier than average to expect a kitten 
to make it the long haul with leukemia, but do any of you have these 
success stories?  I've heard of kitten's turning negative from you 
(and please reiterate those and if you did anything special to reach 
that conclusion), but are there kittens that are positive that grow to 
be healthy, positive adults?
 
I have already embraced (or am trying) your philosophy that the 
control we have is over our attitude toward the events in life, not 
the events themselves (well, to some extent, but not totally).  So if 
my expectations in adopting this kitten are that if we have two 
months, that's a success, and anything above that is a gift, then 
that's what I'll do.
 
Thank you all so much,

Leslie






Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread elizamaggie

Leslie,
How exciting! Will you keep her named Powder or rename her (or is it a him?)? I don't know anything about FIP.

I wish I could give you answers as to how long you can expect Powder to be with you, but I'm afraid I just don't know. My girls are now 9 months and seem to be really strong and healthy, a far cry from two months ago when the vet said one of them was on death's door - so I guess they don't know either. 

Someone on this board (sorry, I can't give credit because I don't remember!) made a really good point that struck me and has stuck - they said that cats have no concept of future, they only know the now. How true! As long as my girls are happy in the moment that's all that matters because they have no mechanism to fear the future (that's quite a gift!).

Maggie

-- Original message -- From: Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Hello, it's Leslie again,

So here's the FeLV+ kitten update from the Humane Society: I went to visit and play with both kittens last Wednesday and they were so cute. Incredibly active, curious, friendly. The volunteer and I talked about my situation a lot and we agreed that since they are together, it would be ideal to get them a home together. I can't take them both, so I decided to let fate take a hand. Yesterday was my day to volunteer with the dogs, but every 30 minutes or so, I'd wander back over to the cat side and give them a scratch. 

Since I'm obsessive, I check the website hourly, and at 6 pm last night, Trixie was taken off of it - meaning that she'd found a home! That leaves Powder (the bobtail) and the one that pulled my heart strings a just a little tighter, truth be told. 

I'm going to call the humane society when they open in an hour and confirm that it wasn't a computer glitch.

So now that it looks like I will be taking Powder, I have one question and one request. 

The question: my last + cat to pass, Hepburn, was taken down by FIP, she had the wet variety, potbelly and all. So whether or not my current + guy, Satchmo, introduced it to her, he was certainly exposed to it before I knew what she had. Should I worry about this in introducing a + kitten to him? I would feel just awful about giving something to a cat that I'm trying to help. What do you think? 

The request: I know that it's riskier than average to expect a kitten to make it the long haul with leukemia, but do any of you have these success stories? I've heard of kitten's turning negative from you (and please reiterate those and if you did anything special to reach that conclusion), but are there kittens that are positive that grow to be healthy, positive adults? 

I have already embraced (or am trying) your philosophy that the control we have is over our attitude toward the events in life, not the events themselves (well, to some extent, but not totally). So if my expectations in adopting this kitten are that if we have two months, that's a success, and anything above that is a gift, then that's what I'll do. 

Thank you all so much,
Leslie



Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread Leslie
Hideyo, my heart goes out to you. You have done such an amazing job in caring for these cats, you haven't let one of them down for a second. All of my well wishes and Satch's naughty-cat energy will be pointed toward you and your cats.


And Sherry, so sorry to here about Nya. It's true what the others have said, that her life was the better for it, even if it was too short by our standards.

MC, Maggie, and Nina, thank you so much for replying to my email. MC what a great wealth of information that was, that makes me feel a lot better about bringing in Powder...and losing Hepburn oddly enough. Nina, thanks for you story of the healthy kittens, and Maggie, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that your two stay on this side of the vet's amazement. :)


I've actually been thinking about that comment about how cat's perceive things. No yesterday, no tomorrow, just now. Hungry now, happy now, in pain now, pet me now. It's true and it makes things much simpler. 


I don't think that I'll keep the name Powder (she's female) because it makes me think of the movie or a dilute calico, and her colors are pretty sharp. I don't know what I'll name her, I'll have to see what strikes me. I hope to pick her up tonight, but it'll be after work, so if the humane society needs to speak to my landlord, I'll have to wait until tomorrow. :)


It seems to be the samephenomenon of the day that you're getting your hair cut, your have a great hair day - because Satch has been in this sweet, I'm-an-only-cat love-bug mood of late. He must know. ;)

Leslie


Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread Nina
I'm glad 'what's her name' will be coming home soon, (I'm sure she'll 
let you know soon enough what she wants to be called!).  High hopes and 
prayers that she turns out to be one of the fortunate and lives a long, 
healthy life.  I think we would all do better concerning ourselves with 
tomorrow, but living in the now.  Re Satchmo and the little one...  I 
would talk to him about her coming to live with you.  Let him know that 
she's to be HIS kitten, that you are bringing her home so he will have 
someone to watch over and play with.  The you were once in her place 
and she needs us logic doesn't seem to work as well with my crew!  I'm 
sure with as many kitties as you've had, I don't have to remind you to 
take the introductions slowly and to shower Satch with attention.  Let 
us know all about it.

Hugs to you, and congratulations,
Nina

It seems to be the same phenomenon of the day that you're getting your 
hair cut, your have a great hair day - because Satch has been in this 
sweet, I'm-an-only-cat love-bug mood of late.  He must know.  ;)
 
Leslie






To Leslie Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread wendy
Leslie,

Congratulations on Powder's future adoption! 
Absolutely, there are kittens who throw off the virus
and become healthy adults, and even if they don't,
they can live with it for a long time.  Many die
before age 3, but some do not.  My kitty Cricket lived
to 4.5 years, and I truly believed he would have lived
longer had he not been stressed out by ten family
members staying with us in our 1500 sq. ft. house for
a week during Hurricane Rita.  He shortly thereafter
developed anemia.  If I were you, I would be giving
the L-lysine and the Mega C for the rest of kitty's
life.  Also, good quality food, like Evo.  And LOTS of
love and snuggles!  Bless you!

:)
Wendy


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



P.S. Re: To Leslie Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-08 Thread wendy
P.S.  Please keep us posted on Powder's adoption.  I
would love to hear how Satchmo adjusts to her and the
funny stuff that happens after you bring her home!

:)
Wendy

--- wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Leslie,
 
 Congratulations on Powder's future adoption! 
 Absolutely, there are kittens who throw off the
 virus
 and become healthy adults, and even if they don't,
 they can live with it for a long time.  Many die
 before age 3, but some do not.  My kitty Cricket
 lived
 to 4.5 years, and I truly believed he would have
 lived
 longer had he not been stressed out by ten family
 members staying with us in our 1500 sq. ft. house
 for
 a week during Hurricane Rita.  He shortly thereafter
 developed anemia.  If I were you, I would be giving
 the L-lysine and the Mega C for the rest of kitty's
 life.  Also, good quality food, like Evo.  And LOTS
 of
 love and snuggles!  Bless you!
 
 :)
 Wendy
 
 
 __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
 protection around 
 http://mail.yahoo.com 
 
 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



Re: Kitten update and FIP question

2006-08-07 Thread TenHouseCats

FIP is currently considered to be a MUTATED form of the common corona
virus--up to 90% of cats who have been in a multi-cat environment will
have been exposed to one of the corona virii. (the same percentage of
humans show the same exposure rate!).

there is some question about whether or not there is one form of the
virus that is more likely to mutate into FIP than others, but the
chief proponent of that seems to be the lab that created a test for
that strain, which in research has not proved to be reliable or
accurate.

in other words, most cats have been exposed to corona viruses, but
most cats do NOT develop the mutation that causes FIP. the corona
virii are contagious, the mutation per se is NOT.

current research is showing that there is a genetic predisposition for
FIP, which may turn out to be the major factor--right now, no one can
predict who will get FIP, there's no way to protect against it, and,
essentially, there's no treatment.

if you have siblings of the kitty that developed FIP, those would be
the most likely to develop it, but the new cat should be at no
additional risk.

MC

On 8/7/06, Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello, it's Leslie again,

So here's the FeLV+ kitten update from the Humane Society:  I went to visit
and play with both kittens last Wednesday and they were so cute.  Incredibly
active, curious, friendly.  The volunteer and I talked about my situation a
lot and we agreed that since they are together, it would be ideal to get
them a home together.  I can't take them both, so I decided to let fate take
a hand.  Yesterday was my day to volunteer with the dogs, but every 30
minutes or so, I'd wander back over to the cat side and give them a scratch.


Since I'm obsessive, I check the website hourly, and at 6 pm last night,
Trixie was taken off of it - meaning that she'd found a home!  That leaves
Powder (the bobtail) and the one that pulled my heart strings a just a
little tighter, truth be told.

I'm going to call the humane society when they open in an hour and confirm
that it wasn't a computer glitch.

So now that it looks like I will be taking Powder, I have one question and
one request.

The question:  my last + cat to pass, Hepburn, was taken down by FIP, she
had the wet variety, potbelly and all.  So whether or not my current + guy,
Satchmo, introduced it to her, he was certainly exposed to it before I knew
what she had.  Should I worry about this in introducing a + kitten to him?
I would feel just awful about giving something to a cat that I'm trying to
help.  What do you think?

The request:  I know that it's riskier than average to expect a kitten to
make it the long haul with leukemia, but do any of you have these success
stories?  I've heard of kitten's turning negative from you (and please
reiterate those and if you did anything special to reach that conclusion),
but are there kittens that are positive that grow to be healthy, positive
adults?

I have already embraced (or am trying) your philosophy that the control we
have is over our attitude toward the events in life, not the events
themselves (well, to some extent, but not totally).  So if my expectations
in adopting this kitten are that if we have two months, that's a success,
and anything above that is a gift, then that's what I'll do.

Thank you all so much,
Leslie



--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892



Re: Kitten Update

2006-06-12 Thread wendy
LOL...I like your signature this past post.  I like
those kind of vets too!  I am not sure I believe that
vaccinating Freddie before you know for sure if he
does/does not have it is a good idea.  Some of us
think that an unnecessary vaccine can kick the virus
into gear.  Maybe you can still isolate him, but not
vaccinate until he can be tested first.  I do agree
that he may be too young to be tested however.  If he
is isolated, you won't have to worry about him
contracting it, so it doesn't make sense to vaccinate
him.  The vaccine is also not very affective.  I think
it's like only 75-80% effective if I remember
correctly.  Someone else here will know better about
that than me.  Hope this helps.

:)
Wendy

--- Ashleigh Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I took the kitten to the vet, and the vet says he
 looks healthy.  He did not test for FeLV because he
 said it would be a waste of  as Freddie is too
 young to have built up a titer.  He recommended
 isolating Freddie from Bella for 5-6 weeks until
 Freddie can get 3 FeLV vaccines in him, so that's
 what I'm going to do.  He said Freddie is about 8
 weeks, but he recommended waiting another week or
 two to be sure it won't hurt him.

   He said to wait until Freddie is about 4-5 months
 to test him for FeLV.  He said a lot of small
 kittens test negative who really do have FeLV, so he
 thinks it is a waste of money at this point.

   ~Ashleigh (who likes vets who care about my
 pocketbook)
 
  __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
 protection around 
 http://mail.yahoo.com 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com