Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
Thank you Amani for giving this information again - if the vet is working with the pet and it's person there really isn't anything to lose trying "Zander's Protocol". Sandy W > On July 26, 2019 at 12:50 PM Amani Oakley wrote: > > > Hi Deborah > > > > Definitely – I have heard from several people who have tried the > combination Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone and their cats’ blood work improved > quickly, as well as their cats overall. I have heard from others who tried it > but their cat died very quickly (ie – within a day or two of their posting > asking for suggestions). Obviously, it’s impossible to tell, in those cases, > whether trying the meds earlier may have helped or whether the meds were just > completely ineffective. My suggestion is that if there are other things you > are wanting to try, you can probably go ahead and try those other options, in > addition to the Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone combination, because I don’t think > one thing precludes the other. > > > > There is very little that is effective, other than Zander’s Protocol, > when cats are showing severe anemia and the reduction of other cell lines > (platelets and white cells), so I don’t think that there’s an awful lot to > choose from. > > > > I must tell you though, that I have had very good success using Winstrol > in many other circumstances with my cats. I think cats respond well to > steroids generally, and my vet told me that once upon a time (20-30 years > ago), they used to hand out Winstrol “like candy” for almost any cat ailment > which involved loss of appetite, general malaise, etc. That stopped around > the time of the Ben Johnson Olympic scandal (1988 or something like that) and > then rumours began to be heard by the vets that Winstrol may damage the > liver, so everyone stopped using it. It is a pity, because I find it useful > for many conditions and I don’t think vets have anything at all to replace > what it can do for cats suffering from anemia, leukemia, etc. > > > > Amani > > > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Deborah > Whorley > Sent: July 26, 2019 11:43 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving > Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC > > > > Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried > your protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and > will present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try. > > > > Thanks, > > Deb > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 mailto:felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org > wrote: > > > > > > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to > > felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org > > mailto:felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org > > mailto:felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol > > with low WBC (Amani Oakley) > > > > > > > > -------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 + > > From: Amani Oakley > mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com > > > To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > " mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving > > Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC > > Message-ID: > > > > > mailto:E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Deborah
Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
Hi Deborah Definitely – I have heard from several people who have tried the combination Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone and their cats’ blood work improved quickly, as well as their cats overall. I have heard from others who tried it but their cat died very quickly (ie – within a day or two of their posting asking for suggestions). Obviously, it’s impossible to tell, in those cases, whether trying the meds earlier may have helped or whether the meds were just completely ineffective. My suggestion is that if there are other things you are wanting to try, you can probably go ahead and try those other options, in addition to the Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone combination, because I don’t think one thing precludes the other. There is very little that is effective, other than Zander’s Protocol, when cats are showing severe anemia and the reduction of other cell lines (platelets and white cells), so I don’t think that there’s an awful lot to choose from. I must tell you though, that I have had very good success using Winstrol in many other circumstances with my cats. I think cats respond well to steroids generally, and my vet told me that once upon a time (20-30 years ago), they used to hand out Winstrol “like candy” for almost any cat ailment which involved loss of appetite, general malaise, etc. That stopped around the time of the Ben Johnson Olympic scandal (1988 or something like that) and then rumours began to be heard by the vets that Winstrol may damage the liver, so everyone stopped using it. It is a pity, because I find it useful for many conditions and I don’t think vets have anything at all to replace what it can do for cats suffering from anemia, leukemia, etc. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley Sent: July 26, 2019 11:43 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried your protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and will present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try. Thanks, Deb On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 mailto:felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org>> wrote: Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org> You can reach the person managing the list at felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC (Amani Oakley) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 + From: Amani Oakley mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>" mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC Message-ID: mailto:E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Deborah The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count. Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with a chronic infection as well. If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination. Amani From: Felvtalk mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Deborah
Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried your protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and will present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try. Thanks, Deb On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 wrote: > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to > felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol > with low WBC (Amani Oakley) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 + > From: Amani Oakley > To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving > Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Deborah > > The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is > the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count. > > Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they > can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of > inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory > system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that > there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with > a chronic infection as well. > > If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of > antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram > negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with > another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more > unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I > would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent > enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself > wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably > wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement > on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Deborah > Whorley > Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving > Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC > > Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with > constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she > does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue > as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve. I ended up with > her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible > (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in > lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due > to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and > mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to > my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years > and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate > giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb > > CBC (21Jul2019) > NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have > insisted upon > > TestResultFlagNormal Range Measure > RBC5.11 L 5.65 8.87 M/?L > HCT24.4L 37.3 61.7 % > HGB7.8 L 13.1 20.5 > g/dL > MCV 47.7L 61.6 73.5 fL > MCH 15.3L 21.2 25.9 pg > MCHC 32.0 32.0 37.9 > g/dL > RDW 23.6H 13.6 21.7 % > %RETIC 0.2 > % > RETIC8.7 L 10.0 110.0 > K/?L > > WBC * 2.39 5.05 16.76K/?L > %NEU* 32.6 >
Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
Hi Deborah The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count. Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they can also go quite low with an infection – often if there is a focal area of inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with a chronic infection as well. If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself wouldn’t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably wouldn’t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is “backed up” but 100 cc SQ fluids didn’t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve. I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case”. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani’s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb CBC (21Jul2019) NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted upon TestResultFlagNormal Range Measure RBC5.11 L 5.65 8.87 M/μL HCT24.4L 37.3 61.7 % HGB7.8 L 13.1 20.5 g/dL MCV 47.7L 61.6 73.5 fL MCH 15.3L 21.2 25.9 pg MCHC 32.0 32.0 37.9 g/dL RDW 23.6H 13.6 21.7 % %RETIC 0.2 % RETIC8.7 L 10.0 110.0 K/μL WBC * 2.39 5.05 16.76K/μL %NEU* 32.6 % %LYM* 36.8 % %MONO * 28.5 % %EOS * 0.4 % %BASO * 1.7 % NEU--.-- 2.95 11.64 K/μL BAND * Suspected LYM* 0.88 1.05 5.10K/μL MONO* 0.68 0.16 1.12 K/μL EOS * 0.01 0.06 1.23 K/μL BASO * 0.04 0.00 0.10 K/μL nRBC * Suspected PLT * 182 148 484 K/μL MPV 17.6H 8.7 13.2 fL PDW --.-- 9.1 19.4 fL PCT 0.320.14 0.46 % ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
I am not knowledgeable enough to say anything, best left to Amani. I can pray for her. - Original Message - From: Deborah Whorley To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is “backed up” but 100 cc SQ fluids didn’t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve. I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case”. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani’s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - DebCBC (21Jul2019) NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted uponTest Result Flag Normal Range MeasureRBC 5.11 L 5.65 8.87M/μLHCT 24.4 L 37.3 61.7 %HGB 7.8 L 13.1 20.5 g/dLMCV 47.7 L 61.6 73.5 fLMCH 15.3 L 21.2 25.9 pgMCHC 32.0 32.0 37.9 g/dLRDW 23.6 H 13.6 21.7 %%RETIC 0.2 %RETIC 8.7 L 10.0 110.0 K/μLWBC * 2.39 5.05 16.76 K/μL%NEU * 32.6 %%LYM * 36.8 %%MONO * 28.5 %%EOS * 0.4 %%BASO * 1.7 %NEU --.-- 2.95 11.64 K/μLBAND * SuspectedLYM * 0.88 1.05 5.10K/μLMONO * 0.68 0.16 1.12 K/μLEOS * 0.01 0.06 1.23 K/μLBASO * 0.04 0.00 0.10 K/μLnRBC * SuspectedPLT * 182 148 484 K/μLMPV 17.6 H 8.7 13.2 fLPDW --.-- 9.1 19.4 fLPCT 0.320.14 0.46 % ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
