Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
RE: cats claws and furniture Have you tried the 2 sided sticky tape, I thing Petsmart and Petco carry it. You put it on places where cats have started cawing. For some reason, they don't like the sticky stuff and they lave it alone. After a bit, you can remove it and hey don't come back to it. Had a friend try it once. Me, I just have los of scratch posts and the emery covered cardboard gadget. It is curved so they can stand on the low endand scratch on the high end. My guys like it a lot. Kind of messy, have to vacumn around it a lot, but better than reupholstering. MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com wrote: metal is great too. Porch furniture can be used inside too. On Aug 27, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Natalie wrote: The best furniture is wooden futons..and bentwood chairs, that's what we have in the kitchen and the TV room, where most cats are. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My thoughts exactly! - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I WILL NEVER ALLOW MY CATS TO BE DECLAWED! Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: I will never use Banfield in Petsmart...oh the horror stories!! - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Benfield Health at Petsmart has a big promotion for kitten health which includes declawing. Many people think it's just a manicure, where nails are pulled out, which to me sounds like torture used by third world countries and barbarians. And many vets suggest it as an option when they learn that the cats will be inside only. I know several people who allowed, and still do, declawed cats outside. No good comes of it more often than not, and the ones that are OK are a fluke. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:31 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That sounds like a good idea. RE: rental, have you had good luck with the people you rent to? Can you specify no loud music after a certain hour, only people in you age range? Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Well, you could enforce the no-flea rule by insisting that the dog is treated with proof. You could even charge the extra amount for flea products and just hand it to them. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors The rental apartment I own, in my two story cat shelter, allows cats As many as they want, within reason of course, and I'd never ask anyone to declaw a cat, but they must be neutered or spayed. I do not allow dogs however, as the last time I had a tenant with a dog (a big lab) we had a horrible flea infestation. The fleas got so bad they gravitated downstairs to my cat shelter and it was just horrible. Lorrie On 08-26, Natalie wrote: There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed...I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
On can always keep looking until they find a place that does not require declawing. In a nursing home, the door to your room could always be kept closed so the cat had no access to other parts of the home. All this discussion about homes and cats has me wondering about the cats/dogs taken to homes as therapy animals. Do they get declawed MaiMaiPG maima...@gmail.com wrote: And who is going to take care of the cat if the owner isn't available? In many rural areas the cat will be taken to the pound or thrown out to take care of himself/herself. This is particularly hard for older cats. It is a judgment call that must be made with all factors considered and with the welfare of the cat in the front. On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Natalie wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility to tell true animal
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
The rental apartment I own, in my two story cat shelter, allows cats As many as they want, within reason of course, and I'd never ask anyone to declaw a cat, but they must be neutered or spayed. I do not allow dogs however, as the last time I had a tenant with a dog (a big lab) we had a horrible flea infestation. The fleas got so bad they gravitated downstairs to my cat shelter and it was just horrible. Lorrie On 08-26, Natalie wrote: There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed...I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
My thoughts exactly! - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Well, you could enforce the no-flea rule by insisting that the dog is treated with proof. You could even charge the extra amount for flea products and just hand it to them. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors The rental apartment I own, in my two story cat shelter, allows cats As many as they want, within reason of course, and I'd never ask anyone to declaw a cat, but they must be neutered or spayed. I do not allow dogs however, as the last time I had a tenant with a dog (a big lab) we had a horrible flea infestation. The fleas got so bad they gravitated downstairs to my cat shelter and it was just horrible. Lorrie On 08-26, Natalie wrote: There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed...I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Benfield Health at Petsmart has a big promotion for kitten health which includes declawing. Many people think it's just a manicure, where nails are pulled out, which to me sounds like torture used by third world countries and barbarians. And many vets suggest it as an option when they learn that the cats will be inside only. I know several people who allowed, and still do, declawed cats outside. No good comes of it more often than not, and the ones that are OK are a fluke. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:31 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
The best furniture is wooden futons..and bentwood chairs, that's what we have in the kitchen and the TV room, where most cats are. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My thoughts exactly! - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
They actually have to learn to walk again. When people lose some of their toes, they lose their balance. Some declaw ALL four paws - and others proudly announce MY cat is declawed on the front paws only!, as if it were something very admirable. When I ask them why they think it's so great, the assumption is that because they spent extra money on the cat, they did it a great favorIt's just plain ignorance when people don't know what declawing really does to a cat's psyche! Everyone should read The Cat that Cried for Help! - just the chapter on the declawing procedure. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of katskat1 Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously- it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother's oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out's to adopters - the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I've read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Yes, but it shouldn't be taken as the ONLY option! And what if the declawed cat starts pissing all over or starts biting people? From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 8:42 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors And who is going to take care of the cat if the owner isn't available? In many rural areas the cat will be taken to the pound or thrown out to take care of himself/herself. This is particularly hard for older cats. It is a judgment call that must be made with all factors considered and with the welfare of the cat in the front. On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Natalie wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously- it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother's oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out's to adopters - the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I've read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility to tell true animal lovers they can't complain about it, that they can't fight for the animals, that they should sit down and shut up and allow the killing to continue. - Nathan Winograd
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That's one of the questions that are listed in declawing info: Q: Is it painful? A: No, it is done under anesthesia. I say - DUH! You can't keep a cat on painkillers all their lives - and some cats do suffer pain ALL their lives. That's all I can tell you. If some people believe that their cats are just fine, they are deluding themselves and don't know how much more fine' that cat would have been without being mutilated! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 8:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously- it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother's oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out's to adopters - the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I've read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I will never use Banfield in Petsmart...oh the horror stories!! - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Benfield Health at Petsmart has a big promotion for kitten health which includes declawing. Many people think it's just a manicure, where nails are pulled out, which to me sounds like torture used by third world countries and barbarians. And many vets suggest it as an option when they learn that the cats will be inside only. I know several people who allowed, and still do, declawed cats outside. No good comes of it more often than not, and the ones that are OK are a fluke. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:31 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
metal is great too. Porch furniture can be used inside too. On Aug 27, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Natalie wrote: The best furniture is wooden futons..and bentwood chairs, that's what we have in the kitchen and the TV room, where most cats are. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 8:45 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My thoughts exactly! - Original Message - From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My cats have destroyed my new furniture, but I love my cats much much more than I like my furniture, and declawing has never been an option at my house. I voice my opinion as much as possible on that subject. But I have found that some people think that just goes along with having a cat. What totally pisses me off is the ones that declaw and then decide to put them outside!! Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:06 PM, katskat1 katsk...@gmail.com wrote: Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW!** ** ** ** There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! ** ** I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). ** ** There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. ** ** *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kelley Saveika *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors ** ** Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ** ** ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility to tell true animal lovers they can’t complain about it, that they can’t fight for the animals, that they should sit down and shut up and allow the killing to continue. - Nathan Winograd ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously- it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother's oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out's to adopters - the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I've read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility to tell true animal lovers they can't complain about it, that they can't fight for the animals, that they should sit down and shut up and allow the killing to continue. - Nathan Winograd ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote *The Cat that Cried for Help, *after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie ** ** *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kelley Saveika *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors ** ** Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW!** ** There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kelley Saveika *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
And who is going to take care of the cat if the owner isn't available? In many rural areas the cat will be taken to the pound or thrown out to take care of himself/herself. This is particularly hard for older cats. It is a judgment call that must be made with all factors considered and with the welfare of the cat in the front. On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Natalie wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Buy or renew magazines and help our kitties! http://www.magfundraising.com/rescuties Please help Trooper! http://rescuties.chipin.com/trooper And it is the most divisive incivility to tell true animal lovers they can’t complain about it, that they can’t fight for the animals, that they should sit down and shut up and allow the killing to continue. - Nathan Winograd ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Paws come with claws. Period. I once lost a job opportunity (which came with a free apartment) because the owner wanted me to declaw. I told him: Unfortunately for you, it will NEVER happen, because I believe it's cruelty to animals. Needless to say, I never got called for a second interview. And I'd do it again. I think I was about 37 at the time. I've always had a big mouth. =^..^= Terri, Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Travis, Dori and 6 furangels: Ruthie, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth, Alec, Salome and Sammi =^..^= - Original Message - From: Nataliemailto:at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously- it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother's oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out's to adopters - the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I've read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.netmailto:at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG - you are responding to a post from March..I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed.I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants' own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it - especially when it's an older cat - it's so much harder on them (not that it isn't on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them...but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do - throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.netmailto:at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orghttp://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties stores and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Just add this to the consideration. To summarize, 'declawing' is a misnomer. When a cat is 'declawed' they are having their toes amputated at the first knuckle. Period. Now, think about you having all ten toes cut off at the first knuckle. Kat On 8/26/11, Gloria Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Tell them: yeah, I’ll declaw my cat if you pull out all your teeth. That ought to shut them up! ~B. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Gloria Lane Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Problem is declawing is so harmful to adult cats- painful, hard to adjust to, it can ruin them. Not right for kittens, but for adults it's just mean, torturous. Just not a good thing to do. There are places that allow cats w claws but folks may not think bout that till the last thing. But then grandma or whoever dies or goes to an Alzheimer's facility and then who wants a cat ruined by declaw. Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Kelley Saveika moonv...@gmail.com wrote: It wouldn't be you going without the cat, it would be the cat going without you. I have seen cats given up by their owners grieve and mourn themselves TO DEATH. I've seen cats given away by their owners be fine. I've seen cats who have been declawed suffer. I have seen cats who have been declawed do absolutely fine. It isn't all as easy as it looks sometimes. I have not had a cat declawed but I did have one who had to have a mastectomy and who I am sure would have been in horrible pain had it not been for the oral pain meds the vet prescribed. I would hope any vet doing declaw surgery would provide pain meds. At any rate I'm 44 so hopefully it would be a while before I went into a nursing home. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I would seriously consider declawing very, very seriously– it is the most devastating thing for a cat. Knowing what I do, I would be more heartbroken doing it to a beloved cat than being without the cat, trust me. I wonder how a cat would feel if he/she knew that it had a choice between missing the owner or having their paws mutilated? According to Dr. Nicholas Doddman, who wrote The Cat that Cried for Help, after declawing surgery, cats feel such extreme pain that they either climb the walls of the cage or sit completely morose and cowering in the corner, something that their owners will never see. I have a copy of an article written for NY Times Magazine a few years ago, where a woman writes about declawing her older cat because her mother’s oriental rug was being scratched up. It is one of my hand-out’s to adopters – the story is heartbreaking, and very typical. After the hurricane is over, I will scan it and post it. It is probably the best I’ve read, without going into the gory details of declawing. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 7:22 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Sorry! This is a 62 email thread in gmail. I don't know how your email program organizes stuff. Anyway I did not look at the date. I've seen cats (especially senior cats) mourn their owners literally to death after being given away, and honestly in that case I'd rather declaw them. Hopefully I will not need to make that choice. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: OMG – you are responding to a post from March……I thought that I was going crazy and somehow missed a whole thread of talking about declawing, NOW! There are also some apartments that allow cats ONLY if they are declawed…I guess they prefer taking their chances of those cats peeing everywhere instead of possibly scratching something, and it would most likely be the tenants’ own furniture! I would rather give my cat away than declaw it – especially when it’s an older cat – it’s so much harder on them (not that it isn’t on young(er) cats). There needs to be a lot of education on declawing and what the psychological/emotional and physical effects can take be. We have had a few abandoned declawed cats, and I have witnessed almost all of them…..but all the damage had already been done, and what was I to do – throw them out or kill them? I found some homes that understood the ramifications and dealt with the problems as well as they could. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:45 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Because if the owner has to go into the nursing home and is fortunate enough to find one where they can take their cat, the nursing home is likely to require declawing. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
On 03-24, MaiMaiPG wrote: I deal with ferals too and all of my house cats have been ferals. One cost me two surgeries thanks to biting through a finger...my fault not hers. A lot of older people are on blood thinners, have extremely thin skin etc. I've been scratched more times than I can count. Obviously, you have been blessed. I'm in my 50's and recover fairly easily. I know of too many older people without sufficient support who can't recover quickly. I suspect it has to do with the overall health of the individual and the personality of the cat. Personally, I have seen my mother bleed for hours from various (for me) insignificant cuts. As I said, declawing should be the last resort but there are times I feel it is justified. My husband is 89 and on coumadin. He bleeds easily when one of our cats scratches him, but we use a styptic pencil to make the bleeding stop and then bind up the scratches if necessary. We'd NEVER declaw one of our 15 rescued cats.. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Dr. Nicholas Dodman wrote an awesome book about cat personalities and problems, including aggression towards housemates and people. It's called The Cat Who Cried For Help, and addresses situations like yours. -Original Message- From: Diane Rosenfeldt [mailto:drosenfe...@wi.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I love that book! In it, Dodman describes a cat in a recovery cage after having been declawed - if that doesn't do it, I don't know what will! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of POTT, BEVERLY Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 4:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Dr. Nicholas Dodman wrote an awesome book about cat personalities and problems, including aggression towards housemates and people. It's called The Cat Who Cried For Help, and addresses situations like yours. -Original Message- From: Diane Rosenfeldt [mailto:drosenfe...@wi.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I will have to see if I can find that. Thankfully, we haven't had anykitty else with the kind of behaviors Tribble displays, but I often wonder what his little brain is really like. I personally think a necropsy of his head would reveal noodles and Ninja stars. ;-) And, after describing this side of his personality, I should say that when he chooses, he can be a love bug himself. He does this thing where he climbs onto you and leans the full front of his face into whatever part of you is available -- usually under a boob or your stomach -- and just stays there. We call it quieting the voices in his head and I sort of suspect we're not completely wrong. He also shares the kitty trait of trying to fit into any box he sees, with wackiness usually ensuing. And, surprisingly, when we added the two feral kittens to our household a couple of years ago, he became a really good father figure. I think it's partly because the other cats sort of keep their distance, and the twins were fearless and willingly played with him. We loves our weird old Tribble. ;-) Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of POTT, BEVERLY Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 3:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Dr. Nicholas Dodman wrote an awesome book about cat personalities and problems, including aggression towards housemates and people. It's called The Cat Who Cried For Help, and addresses situations like yours. -Original Message- From: Diane Rosenfeldt [mailto:drosenfe...@wi.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Sounds like my Harley. He is the terror of the house and then he can be the sweetet baby ever. Gotta love them. Can't get rid of them, would leave too big a hole in your heart. Sometimes he creeps onto my lap, reaches up and pats my face and then curls into a ball and goes to sleep. Other times, he refuses to do what I tell him to do, lays his ears back and swats me. Sometimes even bites my nose (gently)as if to say, Don't tell me what to do. Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com wrote: I will have to see if I can find that. Thankfully, we haven't had anykitty else with the kind of behaviors Tribble displays, but I often wonder what his little brain is really like. I personally think a necropsy of his head would reveal noodles and Ninja stars. ;-) And, after describing this side of his personality, I should say that when he chooses, he can be a love bug himself. He does this thing where he climbs onto you and leans the full front of his face into whatever part of you is available -- usually under a boob or your stomach -- and just stays there. We call it quieting the voices in his head and I sort of suspect we're not completely wrong. He also shares the kitty trait of trying to fit into any box he sees, with wackiness usually ensuing. And, surprisingly, when we added the two feral kittens to our household a couple of years ago, he became a really good father figure. I think it's partly because the other cats sort of keep their distance, and the twins were fearless and willingly played with him. We loves our weird old Tribble. ;-) Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of POTT, BEVERLY Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 3:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Dr. Nicholas Dodman wrote an awesome book about cat personalities and problems, including aggression towards housemates and people. It's called The Cat Who Cried For Help, and addresses situations like yours. -Original Message- From: Diane Rosenfeldt [mailto:drosenfe...@wi.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
My first feral, Shorty, got me 2 times, both my fault. My father had built a house for my strays complete with lapped siding, a small porch with columns and I got leftovers from a client's new carpet ($50.00 a yard, wool) to line the walls and floor. Of course, we put in 2 styrofoam insulation everywhere. And then we stuffed a lot of straw in there for him to arrange however he wanted. Shorty showed up in March and the weather was rainy, snowy, etc so I leaned a piece of plexiglass against it to keep his fod dry. Everything was great if I knocked on the door so he could see me coming and get away. Couple of times I forgot and surprised him. Since he could not flee, he fought. Wraped his legs around my leg and bit me. I did what I usually do, let it bleed to wash out bacteria, put peroxide on it and bandaged it. Applied pressure for a bit and it was good as new. After 8 months, he got used to me and finally allowed me to pick him up and from there went to sleeping on the foot of my bed. I have been very lucky with all my bites and scratches and only 1 time had to go to the ER. A stray came to court my girls and Harley (then 4 months) got out and came flying around the corner of the garage. Moses thought he was attacking so he jumped at him. I grabbed Harley to save him and Moses got me on the back of the hand and hit a large vein. Bled like crazy all over the garage and house. Finally got a couple of 4x4's folded and made a pressure bandage, tied it on with gauze and went to the ER. They gave me a prescription for antibiotics, said I did a real good job of fixing it and told me to find the cat or take rabies shots. I remembered which direction he ran and found him the next day sitting on his ower's porch and very sweetly came to greet me. We had to confine him for 14 days and that was that. He looked so heathy, I was sure he did not have rabies, but the doctor siad was best to be safe. Just remember when dealing with ferals, they feel they have 2 choices, flee or fight so always give them the opportunity to flee. Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com wrote: On 03-24, MaiMaiPG wrote: I deal with ferals too and all of my house cats have been ferals. One cost me two surgeries thanks to biting through a finger...my fault not hers. A lot of older people are on blood thinners, have extremely thin skin etc. I've been scratched more times than I can count. Obviously, you have been blessed. I'm in my 50's and recover fairly easily. I know of too many older people without sufficient support who can't recover quickly. I suspect it has to do with the overall health of the individual and the personality of the cat. Personally, I have seen my mother bleed for hours from various (for me) insignificant cuts. As I said, declawing should be the last resort but there are times I feel it is justified. My husband is 89 and on coumadin. He bleeds easily when one of our cats scratches him, but we use a styptic pencil to make the bleeding stop and then bind up the scratches if necessary. We'd NEVER declaw one of our 15 rescued cats.. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I deal with ferals too and all of my house cats have been ferals. One cost me two surgeries thanks to biting through a finger...my fault not hers. A lot of older people are on blood thinners, have extremely thin skin etc. I've been scratched more times than I can count. Obviously, you have been blessed. I'm in my 50's and recover fairly easily. I know of too many older people without sufficient support who can't recover quickly. I suspect it has to do with the overall health of the individual and the personality of the cat. Personally, I have seen my mother bleed for hours from various (for me) insignificant cuts. As I said, declawing should be the last resort but there are times I feel it is justified. On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Natalie wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:40 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Personally, if I had to make such a choice - having my cat that I have loved for years go though such pain and torture, I would rather get a home for the cat and adopt one that is already declawed - there are quite a few that are in desperate need for homes because they've been abandoned for so many reasons! But that's me; I hate to say it, but sometimes I wonder whether I might almost rather see them dead than declawedbut I'd beg someone to take the cat first. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:25 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I deal with ferals too and all of my house cats have been ferals. One cost me two surgeries thanks to biting through a finger...my fault not hers. A lot of older people are on blood thinners, have extremely thin skin etc. I've been scratched more times than I can count. Obviously, you have been blessed. I'm in my 50's and recover fairly easily. I know of too many older people without sufficient support who can't recover quickly. I suspect it has to do with the overall health of the individual and the personality of the cat. Personally, I have seen my mother bleed for hours from various (for me) insignificant cuts. As I said, declawing should be the last resort but there are times I feel it is justified. On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:34 PM, Natalie wrote: That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:40 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Lord, from the number of declawed and indoor cat replies, I have a lot of emails to go thru. Lots of opinions there. As for me, I will put up with the furniture problems, etc. rather than put any of my babies thru any pain and discomfort. Of course, when it comes to fighting and keep or put down type of desision, that is a different situation. Fortunately, I have not had to make any such decision. We have slaps, hisses and screams of If you come one step closer, I am going to kill you but usually the screamer turns tail and runs. It is just show. It does get a bit noisy sometimes. If only the 2 screamers could be made to understand that if they just ignored the others, they would give up and stop pestering them. Really do wish I could sit them down and explain it to them. Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com wrote: My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
You did the best thing younew to do and it worked. Blessings to you both and your family. Sometimes you just take your best shot and pray. On Mar 24, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: My housemate and I were faced with such a decision 10 or 11 years ago, when we moved from our separate apartments to our formerly-two-flat house, and melded our cat families. She had two, an elderly lady named Kitty and a pugnacious orange boy named Tribble. I had 3 -- my laid-back Luc, my introverted fluffy tortie Phoebe, and my mom's black girly, Missy. Tribble had always deferred to Kitty when they lived together, and continued to do so, thank goodness. But as time went on and our cat population changed a little, Tribble showed quite a bit of aggression, and we had to take somebody or other to the vet to have bites treated at least twice. So we were in a real bind, since we are both cats-are-family-for-life people, and we did love Tribble with all his peculiarities. We knew nobody would adopt him anyway. We are both anti-declaw and had the raggedy furniture to prove it, but we decided that for the safety of the other cats we would have him declawed, feeling maybe he would lose some aggressiveness, and also that he might still be able to bite, but he wouldn't be able to dig in and hold on while he did so. We found the one place in town at the time that did the laser technique. We were worried about all the things mentioned -- the pain, the litter problems, the behavioral problems. But he really seemed not to mind, even during the first days. He was fine with the litterbox, and didn't develop any behavioral problems above and beyond the ones he had going in. He was still aggressive, but wasn't able to inflict nearly the damage, which was mission accomplished as far as we were concerned. The upside for him is that to this day he still tries to sharpen those claws on furniture, wicker etc., and he's the only one that doesn't get shooed away. I know we got lucky here, and that most cats suffer more, but if we had it to do again we'd still make the same decision under the same circumstances. It was either that or sentence Tribble to almost certain death. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
We have removed cats from homes when we've found out they declawed. Our contract strictly prohibits it. Those things are usually handled through a lawyer, though. You don't want to go about it the wrong way. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:55 PM Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn’t allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear to that veterinary hospital that no cat that was adopted from us can be declawed, and should a customer ask for it, we must be notified immediately! Thank God that my other veterinarian would never declaw! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over the past 18 years. A friend, who also has a cat rescue group, doesn't allow declawing (we don't either), came to her vet, and noticed one of her adopters picking up her cat after spayingshe looked into the carrier and noticed the poor kittens front paws bandaged.she gave her an earful, but what was she to do, take the cat back and have this person declaw yet another one? Since then, we made it perfectly clear
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Edna, that's exactly what I tell people about letting their cats out just because they want to. I ask them if they would allow their 3-yr old to play in the middle of the street just because he/she wanted to? When I hear but the cat gets out, I tell them that they control the door, period! Our adoption contract stipulates strictly indoors - but, there's no real way of enforcing it except to spot check wherever the cats live and hope that adopters understand the reasons for it. I have removed several adopted cats over
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
Shoot, why send it privately? Put it up here for all to see. Name and shame! From: Natalie [mailto:at...@optonline.net] Sent: Wed 3/23/2011 5:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors
That is true, but I don't understand why an old person can't have a cat with claws. Dealing mostly with feral cats, I have never been bitten or scratched - what's the danger, I am 70 yrs old. And as I said, bites are a natural defense for declawed cats! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:40 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Those may be very reasonable options for a lot of people. However, I suspect you overestimate the resources available to everyone. Not everyone can drive; not everyone has someone who can/will attempt to trim a cat's nails; not everyone can afford a trip to the vet's every 2-4 weeks; and not every cat can be rehomed. Mass transit is not available everywhere. I agree that it should be a last resort. However, I am not willing to condemn everyone who declaws. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Natalie wrote: A vet, a vet tech, or a friend could do it - surely a better option than putting a cat through such torture, not to mention complete personality change to being withdrawn, morose, or an unpredictable biter! Cat bites are more dangerous than scratches any time! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:14 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors That is a good optionif the owner is able to trim nails and put SoftPaws on. A lot of elderly people don't have the physical dexterity or skills to trim nails. In fact, I have watched young people who could not master the task. On Mar 23, 2011, at 5:05 PM, Natalie wrote: A good solution for a problem as you mentioned, is trimming claws and using SoftPaws - declawing an older cat can be even worse than for a kitten at times...the pain after surgery is supposed to be absolutely excruciating - cats either climb the walls in the recover cage or sit in the corner, completely catatonic (according to Dr.Nicholas Dodman). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:49 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors I can see some times where it is either declaw the cat or end its life.for the safety of an elderly owner for example. That being said, Copper and Thomas have their claws and, with a little planning re furniture, there has been no problem. Dixie and Ebony kept theirs too. Ebony caused some problems but, if I had known then what I know now, I could have limited them. It takes a little work and patience, planning and thinking. I would encourage anyone who wanted a declawed cat to try and get one that has already been declawed. On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Natalie wrote: That's horrible, and many people do not realize what it entails and how many cats lose their lives - they think it's a manicure...but many vets are to blame. Several people told me that after adopting from us, they went to their own vet, and after telling them that the cats will be kept indoors only, the vets said Oh, you have an option to declaw! Banfield Health. The group at Petsmart, offers a big special for kitten health - all the vaccines, exams, and declawing for a very good price! I wrote to them about declawing; they wrote back with the most ridiculous comments. If anyone would like to see their reply, I'll send it privately. Last year, I was informed that they will no longer cut ears and tails on dogs, because it's purely cosmetic...I wrote to them, asking their policy on declawing since they have made that big leap on no longer mutilating dogs, they might have reconsidered doing it to cats...no reply from them. O always ask people what they would prefer, a few things scratched up or urine-soaked carpets and furniture.Besides, not all cats grow up to be scratchers...and providing good posts and trimming their nails works well. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Keep Cats Indoors Natalie, I am with you about the declawing. Someone I know adopted two kittens from me and one died on the table during a declaw surgery. Yes, I HAD told her before hand NO declawing but people don't listen and they always know best, yadda yadda :( Then they wonder why Buster is peeing on the bed and the floor because his paws hurt so badly from the surgery. SIGH :( Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:55:49 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net
