Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-25 Thread paola cresti
Hi MC, 
sorry finally catching up now with my mail.
thank you so much for the input, it seems like we need to make our own way on 
this issue and forge ahead without data. Hopefully the Veterinary associations 
will follow suit.

I tried clicking on the link you gave me but it couldn't find it. I'll try 
making searches for AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines

Thank you again

Paola





From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:25:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain
viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
continue to test positive.

vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in
kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
(many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition
positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if
one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
(heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all
were most likely killed.

asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while
kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why
that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
remember.

kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval
long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority
of kittens tested negative. still do.

just no real data to 'prove' it.

paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
*
*
MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
___
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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-25 Thread MaryChristine
i just checked the link and it worked, so you might want to try
again--site could have been down. but you CAN search from the main
page.

the saddest part is that the literature IS out there, so it's not that
the veterinary profession doesn't have access to it; it seems that too
many just go with the easy answer, tho it's been many years since,
'kill all positives, was ever the professional response. the good
thing is that, because of people who wouldn't take, kill, as an
answer, research has stepped up again in the past few years. but
getting it completed, evaluated, reviewed and published is just the
first battle.

if you can't find the file, i can send it to you--it's just too big to
attach to the list!

mc


MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)





On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:47 AM, paola cresti iend...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hi MC,
 sorry finally catching up now with my mail.
 thank you so much for the input, it seems like we need to make our own way on
 this issue and forge ahead without data. Hopefully the Veterinary associations
 will follow suit.

 I tried clicking on the link you gave me but it couldn't find it. I'll try
 making searches for AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines

 Thank you again

 Paola




 
 From: MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:25:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

 in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
 until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
 their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain
 viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
 continue to test positive.

 vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
 SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
 antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

 sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in
 kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
 (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition
 positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if
 one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
 (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all
 were most likely killed.

 asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while
 kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

 in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
 kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
 months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
 happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why
 that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
 remember.

 kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
 necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
 age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

 with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval
 long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority
 of kittens tested negative. still do.

 just no real data to 'prove' it.

 paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
 *
 *
 MC
 --
 Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
 Maybe That'll Make The Difference

 MaryChristine
 Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
 Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-17 Thread Fernanda Barreto





I have been meaning to send out this update, but now it's in direct response to 
Paola's question.
 
I wrote in a few weeks ago to get some advise on an FeLV positive kitten I had 
found in the middle of the street.  Even knowing that he may not be around for 
long (the vet wanted to put him to sleep the day I found him) my boyfriend and 
I quickly fell in love with him and named him Tommy.  After several hours of 
internet research, we decided to start giving him Mega C in hopes that it would 
boost his immune system enough to help him fight off the virus; at the very 
least, it couldn't hurt.  After several weeks, we took Tommy to a different vet 
to be re-tested.  This vet recommended sending the blood work to the lab, where 
they could do confirmatory tests if needed.  We were ecstatic when she called 
to tell us that he is now testing negative; even she sounded surprised.  The 
vet recommended that we get him tested again in a few weeks, just to make sure. 
 I'm not sure if the Mega C made a difference or not, but we will continue 
giving it to him.  The Mega C was not that expensive and it comes in a huge 
container that should last us quite a while.  Even though we are still 
cautious, we are so happy that Tommy may have beaten this.
 
When I found him, Tommy was tiny and starving to death - his eyes were not 
dilating properly, he couldn't walk without falling, he was failing to thrive.  
However, with regular meals, love and attention, he has grown to be a healthy, 
and quite mischievous, kitten.  In the 6 weeks that he has been with us, he 
went from a pound and a half, to a full four pounds!
 
Thank you for all the information you gave so freely.  I know that many more 
kittens will benefit from your collective knowledge and care.
 
Fernanda

 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:38:25 -0700
 From: iend...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens
 
 Hi all, 
 I volunteer at a kitten rescue organization, and talking about all the 
 loving, 
 caring people on this listserv the people at the organization were wondering 
 for 
 those who have kittens that were tested positive, how often and how many 
 (average if you've rescued many) turn out to be negative when/if re-tested 
 later 
 on?
 
 It would be especially good to know in case we rescue kittens that test 
 positive. Knowing of actual cases and occasions of kittens that turned out to 
 be 
 negative when tested later on would help a lot in dealing with possible 
 cases, 
 and trying to get them adopted.
 
 thank you so much in advance, and I hope this gets through, several of my 
 posts/replies to posts haven't been showing up (on my end anyway)
 
 Best 
 
 Paola
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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-17 Thread MaryChristine
in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do remain
viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
continue to test positive.

vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are in
kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
(many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be definition
positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test, if
one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
(heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only), all
were most likely killed.

asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance, while
kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on why
that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
remember.

kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an interval
long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the majority
of kittens tested negative. still do.

just no real data to 'prove' it.

paolo, have you seen this? *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
*
*
MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-17 Thread Sander, Sue
Can you please state the first paragraph in another way.  I'm don't know
what you mean by the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until
to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
their system.  This is very important to me because I have a very
healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago.  He was a stray.  This is
the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet
said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words).  

So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill?
I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago.

Thanks very much.

Susan

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out
of
their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do
remain
viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
continue to test positive.

vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are
in
kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
(many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be
definition
positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test,
if
one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
(heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only),
all
were most likely killed.

asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance,
while
kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on
why
that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
remember.

kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an
interval
long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the
majority
of kittens tested negative. still do.

just no real data to 'prove' it.

paolo, have you seen this?
*http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
*
*
MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
(www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-17 Thread MaryChristine
*http://tinyurl.com/Merck-FeLV*
*
*
*the info on regressive infection is in the aafp guidelines to managing
feline retroviruses, which i've posted many times--check the archives. *
*
*
*
*
MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)




On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Sander, Sue sue.san...@ssa.gov wrote:

 Can you please state the first paragraph in another way.  I'm don't know
 what you mean by the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until
 to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
 their system.  This is very important to me because I have a very
 healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago.  He was a stray.  This is
 the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet
 said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words).

 So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill?
 I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago.

 Thanks very much.

 Susan

 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
 Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

 in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
 until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out
 of
 their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do
 remain
 viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
 continue to test positive.

 vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
 SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
 antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

 sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are
 in
 kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
 (many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be
 definition
 positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test,
 if
 one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
 (heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only),
 all
 were most likely killed.

 asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance,
 while
 kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

 in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
 kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
 months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
 happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on
 why
 that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
 remember.

 kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
 necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
 age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

 with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an
 interval
 long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the
 majority
 of kittens tested negative. still do.

 just no real data to 'prove' it.

 paolo, have you seen this?
 *http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
 *
 *
 MC
 --
 Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
 Maybe That'll Make The Difference

 MaryChristine
 Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
 (www.purebredcats.org)
 Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

2010-08-17 Thread paola cresti
thanks for the replies and thanks Susan for asking a question one the one below 
from MC as I hadn't gotten it.
So far I've only gotten this one (through Susan) and the one from Fernanda 
about 
little Tommy - so awesome to hear he's negative and doing well kudos to you 
guys 
for insisting on keeping him!!!

Susan if you get a reply from MC can you forward it to me again? I need to 
contact the administrator somehow and see if we can figure out why I keep 
missing posts :-(

Karen I got yours and it's so heartbreaking about your little Lovey kitten, you 
at least gave him a peaceful passing, and some warmth in the end

Paola



From: Sander, Sue sue.san...@ssa.gov
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 11:46:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

Can you please state the first paragraph in another way.  I'm don't know
what you mean by the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed until
to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out of
their system.  This is very important to me because I have a very
healthy cat who tested POSITIVE one year ago.  He was a stray.  This is
the second year I'm taking him to have his teeth cleaned because the vet
said she can see signs of FELV+ by his teeth (not her exact words).  

So what percentage of the 70% and the 30% are the cats who become ill?
I began giving my cat the MEGA C a little over a year ago.

Thanks very much.

Susan

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaryChristine
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:25 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FeLV Re-testing for kittens/Tommy Update

in adult healthy cats, the stats are that 70% can be adequately exposed
until to test positive, and either never do so, or process the virus out
of
their system. they also know that some percentage of that 30% who do
remain
viremic, never become symptomatic, and are not contagious, even tho they
continue to test positive.

vets consistently forget, and we must consistently remind them, that the
SNAP (and IFA, actually) test not for antibodies/infection, but for
antigens/exposure--so a confirmatory test is literally vital.

sadly, there is just not enough research to say what the percentages are
in
kittens--back in 2002, it was presumed that ALL kittens of positive moms
(many of whom probably weren't positive to start with) were be
definition
positive themselves, and all were killed. when mom wasn't there to test,
if
one kitten in a litter tested positive, or the litter's blood was mixed
(heaven forfend!) and was positive (again, remember, to ANTIGENS only),
all
were most likely killed.

asymptomatic positive adults were most likely to be given a chance,
while
kittens were far less lucky. hence no research pool.

in sanctuary settings, anecdotally it seemed that asymptomatic
kittens--especially of asymptomatic moms--who made it past six or seven
months of age (when mom's antibodies wore off? don't know, but kept
happening), and again past about 18-22 months (absolutely NO ideas on
why
that's an important mark) would survive--these were UNretested cats,
remember.

kittens of sickly moms, or kittens who were themselves sickly -- not
necessarily REALLY sick, but just not as thrifty as others their
age/developmental stage--tended to do less well.

with retesting recognized as a necessity, with an IFA done at an
interval
long enough to let the virus work itself out of kitty's system, the
majority
of kittens tested negative. still do.

just no real data to 'prove' it.

paolo, have you seen this?
*http://tinyurl.com/AAFP-Retrovirus-Guidelines*
*
*
MC
--
Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine
Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue
(www.purebredcats.org)
Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team)
___
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