Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-28 Thread catatonya
I think the only way to get a 'true' test on felv kittens is to test them asap 
and then wait at least 60 days (preferably 90).  Keep them totally away from 
other cats, and then retest.  This is so hard to do that I don't think anyone 
can judge a cat at any age as positive or negative from one test.
  tonya

MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
still seems like it doesn't make sense--i know better than most that it 
takes an adult cat 90 to 120 days to develop antigens after exposure, so why 
then do so many articles say that you can test kittens at any age? why not just 
SAY that a test result isn't valid in kittens before then? seems to me that 
this is another one of those, we really don't know, so each of us will make it 
up as we go along, situations. I WANT ONE ANSWER, darn it! i don't care what 
it is, i just want one that everyone can agree upon, is that really too much to 
ask? (yeah, that was a rhetorical question.)

and unfortunately, not enough vets seem to know that FIV kittens will show 
their mom's antibodies, and, subsequently, fewer shelters and rescues do.

in EITHER case, a single test should never be taken as definitive--and all the 
major vet schools, and professional associations and literature have said so 
for years. hasn't made a whole lot of difference.

thanks for the link to the shelter med article, tho, as it confirms some of 
what i'd been seeing the journals, that transplacental transmission was no 
longer being considered the main vector.
hopefully, i'll be able to find those links again. (i have everything 
saved--it's just finding it again that can be problematical... )

MC
 

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread mdurante
Hi, 

We've had several FIV cats and they've all lived well into their teens. We 
didn't even start to see any health problems until they were older. One of our 
FIV cats is about 15 and she has only ever been to the vet for routine things. 
The one thing I would suggest is that you feed a really good quality diet and 
also that you get regular teeth cleanings. FIV cats tend to have teeth 
problems. 


Michele

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 We have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks 
 old. 
 He came back possitive FIV. He was tested again when he was about 9 or 10 
 months old and sad to say, he was still possitive. So I guess he does have 
 FIV. 
 Not sure what to do now. Thanks, Robin P. 
  gary wrote: 
  OK, here we go. 
  
  The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a 
 negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can be 
 adopted without the chance of FIV. We all know that MOST kittens who test 
 positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months of age. 
  
  For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affected by the age of the 
 kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) however, it can 
 take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable level after 
 exposure. Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks. The vet is 
 just trying to avoid a false negative. 
  
  Unfortunately, there has not been enough study done to know just how much 
 exposure and for what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat. An 
 article in Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally from 
 mother to offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common. 
 http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml 
  
  They don't reference any data for that. Sort of leaves you in a tough place 
 if you have a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already 
 have 
 it, or do you snatch them away as soon as they are born so they don't get it 
 from milk or grooming? 
  
  Hope that helps. 
  
  Gary 
  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM 
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens 
  
  
  i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong: 
  
  there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age, 
 because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will 
 show 
 their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) then. 
  
  is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV, 
 which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned above 
 then say 3 months is the best age? 
  
  
  
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread catatonya
I don't know why.  I think most people just wait on both tests (at shelters) 
until the kittens are old enough to combo test.  I think you could give the 
leukemia test at any age.  Honestly, if I were taking in a new cat I would not 
even test it as a requisite to taking it in at this point.
  t

MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:

there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age, because 
both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will show their 
MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) then.

is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV, 
which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned above 
then say 3 months is the best age? 




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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread MaryChristine
there are MANY MANY things about FIV that make it better than having
FeLV--join the yahoogroup FIVCats2 for accurate info.

MC

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:20 AM, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Robin,

 Time now for a Western Blot test, that is the confirmation test for FIV.
  If
 you want to discuss FIV and what to so with this kitty, contact, me off
 list
 and we can talk about it.  There are some things about it that make it
 better than the kitty having FeLV.

 Gary

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Cc: gary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


  We have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks
  old.  He came back possitive FIV.  He was tested again when he was about
 9
  or 10 months old and sad to say, he was still possitive.  So I guess he
  does have FIV.   Not sure what to do now.  Thanks,  Robin P.
   gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  OK, here we go.
 
  The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a
  negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can
  be adopted without the chance of FIV.  We all know that MOST kittens who
  test positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months
  of age.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread MaryChristine
still seems like it doesn't make sense--i know better than most that it
takes an adult cat 90 to 120 days to develop antigens after exposure, so why
then do so many articles say that you can test kittens at any age? why not
just SAY that a test result isn't valid in kittens before then? seems to me
that this is another one of those, we really don't know, so each of us will
make it up as we go along, situations. I WANT ONE ANSWER, darn it! i don't
care what it is, i just want one that everyone can agree upon, is that
really too much to ask? (yeah, that was a rhetorical question.)

and unfortunately, not enough vets seem to know that FIV kittens will show
their mom's antibodies, and, subsequently, fewer shelters and rescues do.

in EITHER case, a single test should never be taken as definitive--and all
the major vet schools, and professional associations and literature have
said so for years. hasn't made a whole lot of difference.

thanks for the link to the shelter med article, tho, as it confirms some of
what i'd been seeing the journals, that transplacental transmission was no
longer being considered the main vector.
hopefully, i'll be able to find those links again. (i have everything
saved--it's just finding it again that can be problematical... )

MC

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 12:54 AM, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  OK, here we go.

 The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a
 negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can be
 adopted without the chance of FIV.  We all know that MOST kittens who test
 positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months  of age.

 For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affected by the age of the
 kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) however, it
 can take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable level after
 exposure.  Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks.  The vet
 is just trying to avoid a false negative.

 Unfortunately, there has not been enough study done to know just how much
 exposure and for what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat.
 An article in Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally
 from mother to offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more
 common.  http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml

 They don't reference any data for that.  Sort of leaves you in a tough
 place if you have a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the
 kittens already have it, or do you snatch them away as soon as they are born
 so they don't get it from milk or grooming?

 Hope that helps.

 Gary

 - Original Message -
  *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

 i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:

 there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age,
 because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will
 show their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond)
 then.

 is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV,
 which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned
 above then say 3 months is the best age?




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 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Maybe That'll Make The Difference

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread catatonya
I would just keep doing whatever you're doing.  Having fiv is one of the 'best' 
things to have if you have to have a health problem and you're a cat.
  t

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks 
old. He came back possitive FIV. He was tested again when he was about 9 or 10 
months old and sad to say, he was still possitive. So I guess he does have FIV. 
Not sure what to do now. Thanks, Robin P.
 gary wrote: 
 OK, here we go.
 
 The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a 
 negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can be 
 adopted without the chance of FIV. We all know that MOST kittens who test 
 positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months of age.
 
 For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affected by the age of the 
 kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) however, it can 
 take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable level after 
 exposure. Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks. The vet is 
 just trying to avoid a false negative.
 
 Unfortunately, there has not been enough study done to know just how much 
 exposure and for what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat. An 
 article in Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally from 
 mother to offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common. 
 http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml
 
 They don't reference any data for that. Sort of leaves you in a tough place 
 if you have a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already 
 have it, or do you snatch them away as soon as they are born so they don't 
 get it from milk or grooming? 
 
 Hope that helps.
 
 Gary 
 - Original Message - 
 From: MaryChristine 
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
 
 
 i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:
 
 there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age, 
 because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will 
 show their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) 
 then.
 
 is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV, 
 which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned above 
 then say 3 months is the best age? 
 
 
 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread Debbie Harrison

Michele (and others)...not being sarcastic...I really need to know!!
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:23:16 
+Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
Hi, 
 
We've had several FIV cats and they've all lived well into their teens. We 
didn't even start to see any health problems until they were older. One of our 
FIV cats is about 15 and she has only ever been to the vet for routine things. 
The one thing I would suggest is that you feed a really good quality diet and 
also that you get regular teeth cleanings. FIV cats tend to have teeth 
problems. 
 
Michele
 
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  We 
have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks old.  
He came back possitive FIV. He was tested again when he was about 9 or 10  
months old and sad to say, he was still possitive. So I guess he does have FIV. 
 Not sure what to do now. Thanks, Robin P.   gary wrote:   OK, here we 
go. The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to 
obtain a  negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and 
can be  adopted without the chance of FIV. We all know that MOST kittens who 
test  positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months of 
age. For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affect ed by the 
age of the  kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) 
however, it can  take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable 
level after  exposure. Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks. 
The vet is  just trying to avoid a false negative. Unfortunately, 
there has not been enough study done to know just how much  exposure and for 
what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat. An  article in 
Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally from  mother to 
offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common.  
http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml They don't 
reference any data for that. Sort of leaves you in a tough place  if you have 
a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already have  it, or do 
you snatch them away as soon as they ar e born so they don't get it  from milk 
or grooming? Hope that helps. Gary   - Original Message 
-   From: MaryChristine   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   Sent: 
Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval 
for kittens   i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:
 there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age,  
because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will show 
 their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) then. 
is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for 
FeLV,  which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned 
above  then say 3 months is the best age?   ;
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread Debbie Harrison

well...that went poorly...I was asking what constitutes a good diet for cats 
these days...please.Debbie (COL)You gotta bloom where you're planted!

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:39:29 
+0500Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


Michele (and others)...not being sarcastic...I really need to know!! 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:23:16 
+Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
Hi, 
 
We've had several FIV cats and they've all lived well into their teens. We 
didn't even start to see any health problems until they were older. One of our 
FIV cats is about 15 and she has only ever been to the vet for routine things. 
The one thing I would suggest is that you feed a really good quality diet and 
also that you get regular teeth cleanings. FIV cats tend to have teeth 
problems. 
 
Michele
 
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  We 
have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks old.  
He came back possitive FIV. He was tested again when he was about 9 or 10  
months old and sad to say, he was still possitive. So I guess he does have FIV. 
 Not sure what to do now. Thanks, Robin P.   gary wrote:   OK, here we 
go. The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to 
obtain a  negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and 
can be  adopted without the chance of FIV. We all know that MOST kittens who 
test  positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months of 
age. For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affect ed by the 
age of the  kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) 
however, it can  take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable 
level after  exposure. Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks. 
The vet is  just trying to avoid a false negative. Unfortunately, 
there has not been enough study done to know just how much  exposure and for 
what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat. An  article in 
Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally from  mother to 
offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common.  
http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml They don't 
reference any data for that. Sort of leaves you in a tough place  if you have 
a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already have  it, or do 
you snatch them away as soon as they ar e born so they don't get it  from milk 
or grooming? Hope that helps. Gary   - Original Message 
-   From: MaryChristine   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org   Sent: 
Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval 
for kittens   i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:
 there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age,  
because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will show 
 their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) then. 
is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for 
FeLV,  which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned 
above  then say 3 months is the best age?   ;
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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread Sharyl
Debbie, I don't mean to be sarcastic but it really depends on the issues the 
cat has or doesn't have.  For my CRF kitty I am looking for the lowest 
phosphorus food she'll eat.  Cats with sensitive systems really need grain free 
foods.  
 
For most cats a high quality canned food is usually best.  High quality doesn't 
necessarily mean highest price.  You can go to www.petfooddirect.com and find 
the ingredients for most canned and dry foods.  
 
I avoid anything with garlic/onions or designer ingredients.  Many companies 
are adding ingredients that people take for various health issues without 
testing to see the impact on cats.   For this reason I avoid any food with 
cranberries.  I expect the 1st few ingredients to be a protein in the form of a 
meat.  I avoid any food where the first or second ingredient is a grain.  Cats 
are carnivores not herbivores.
 
All that said I feed my CRF kitty whatever she will eat.  Today it was Fancy 
Feast.  Yesterday it was Friskies.  She refuses to eat any of the renal diets 
or any of the so called 'high quality' foods.  
HTH
Sharyl

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, Debbie Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Debbie Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 3:41 PM




#yiv2102308790 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv2102308790 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}

well...that went poorly...I was asking what constitutes a good diet for cats 
these days...please.

Debbie (COL)
You gotta bloom where you're planted!





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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-27 Thread MaryChristine
my crf kitty, who was fed delicat from the time she was weaned at 4 weeks of
age (i rescued her at years old), and REFUSED to eat anything other than
that--she'd hold her nose and turn calico and BLUE before she'd eat anything
else, WOULD eat a home-made ground turkey diet, with hard-boiled eggs for
taurine, and brown rice to stretch it out (yeah, i know they don't NEED
carbs) then she stopped eating that, too. now she gets whatever it
is she'll eat--fancy feast, friskies, 9 lives--all meat ones, no fish.
i've tried to have the, you have to eat well or you'll DIE, discussion
with her, and she just gazes at me with her green eyes and says, mom, i'm
going to die anyway, in my own time. you know that, i know that. give it a
rest. calicos can be a REAL pain.



On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Debbie, I don't mean to be sarcastic but it really depends on the issues
 the cat has or doesn't have.  For my CRF kitty I am looking for the lowest
 phosphorus food she'll eat.  Cats with sensitive systems really need grain
 free foods.



 For most cats a high quality canned food is usually best.  High quality
 doesn't necessarily mean highest price.  You can go to
 www.petfooddirect.com and find the ingredients for most canned and dry
 foods.



 I avoid anything with garlic/onions or designer ingredients.  Many
 companies are adding ingredients that people take for various health issues
 without testing to see the impact on cats.   For this reason I avoid any
 food with cranberries.  I expect the 1st few ingredients to be a protein in
 the form of a meat.  I avoid any food where the first or second ingredient
 is a grain.  Cats are carnivores not herbivores.



 All that said I feed my CRF kitty whatever she will eat.  Today it was
 Fancy Feast.  Yesterday it was Friskies.  She refuses to eat any of the
 renal diets or any of the so called 'high quality' foods.

 HTH

 Sharyl

 --- On *Sun, 7/27/08, Debbie Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 From: Debbie Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 3:41 PM

  well...that went poorly...I was asking what constitutes a good diet for
 cats these days...please.

 Debbie (COL)
 You gotta bloom where you're planted!




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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-26 Thread r_pine
We have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks old.  
He came back possitive FIV.  He was tested again when he was about 9 or 10 
months old and sad to say, he was still possitive.  So I guess he does have 
FIV.   Not sure what to do now.  Thanks,  Robin P.
 gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 OK, here we go.
 
 The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a 
 negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can be 
 adopted without the chance of FIV.  We all know that MOST kittens who test 
 positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months  of age.
 
 For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affected by the age of the 
 kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) however, it can 
 take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable level after 
 exposure.  Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks.  The vet is 
 just trying to avoid a false negative.
 
 Unfortunately, there has not been enough study done to know just how much 
 exposure and for what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat.  
 An article in Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally 
 from mother to offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common. 
  http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml
 
 They don't reference any data for that.  Sort of leaves you in a tough place 
 if you have a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already 
 have it, or do you snatch them away as soon as they are born so they don't 
 get it from milk or grooming? 
 
 Hope that helps.
 
 Gary 
   - Original Message - 
   From: MaryChristine 
   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
   Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM
   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
 
 
   i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:
 
   there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age, 
 because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will 
 show their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) 
 then.
 
   is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV, 
 which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned above 
 then say 3 months is the best age? 
 
 
 


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-26 Thread gary
Robin,

Time now for a Western Blot test, that is the confirmation test for FIV.  If 
you want to discuss FIV and what to so with this kitty, contact, me off list 
and we can talk about it.  There are some things about it that make it 
better than the kitty having FeLV.

Gary

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: gary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


 We have had a kitten since last summer when he was about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks 
 old.  He came back possitive FIV.  He was tested again when he was about 9 
 or 10 months old and sad to say, he was still possitive.  So I guess he 
 does have FIV.   Not sure what to do now.  Thanks,  Robin P.
  gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 OK, here we go.

 The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a 
 negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can 
 be adopted without the chance of FIV.  We all know that MOST kittens who 
 test positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months 
 of age.


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread Pat Kachur
Although many vets test sooner, my vet feels that you get the more accurate 
results if you wait until 3 months.
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:06 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


 Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
 have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
 born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
 them real soon.

 I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
 test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
 right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
 is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

 Thanks

 Sam

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread Sharyl
This is what has confused me.  
1.) If the feral queen is presumed positive, how long should you wait after 
separating the queen and kittens before testing the kittens?
2.) If the queen is positive, can the kittens, over time, 'throw off' the 
virus?   
3.) If the 1st ELISA test is positive, how long should you wait before doing a 
follow up IFA test?   
 
I'm in a rural area.  No vets in my county.  The next county has 2 vet 
clinics.  One believes in PTS for any kitten that test positive and euthanizing 
the entire feral colony.  The other believes in ELISA retesting after 1 month.  
PTS is out of the question for cats/kittens that appear to be healthy and one 
month just doesn't seem long enough.  So I rely on groups like this for 
guidance.  
Sharyl

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:01 AM



i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent article i 
read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date list, so i read 
things, save the links, and will go back and actually organize them later, so i 
DON'T have the links right now--said that, because of what the test tests, the 
antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be tested at any age.

if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our best to 
be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate it!




On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
them real soon.

I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

Thanks

Sam

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Maybe That'll Make The Difference

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread gary
What, exactly, is the question?  Do you want to know why you can test for FeLV 
at any age?

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 12:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


  i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent article i 
read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date list, so i read 
things, save the links, and will go back and actually organize them later, so i 
DON'T have the links right now--said that, because of what the test tests, the 
antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be tested at any age.

  if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our best 
to be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate it!




  On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
them real soon.

I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

Thanks

Sam

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  Maybe That'll Make The Difference

  MaryChristine




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  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread catatonya
my unscientifix explanation is that they can be tested for felv at any age, but 
you won't know if that's a 'true' positive for at least 3 months of time. 3 
months that you KNOW they are not with any other exposed cat. I see it as 
impossible in the real world.  I wish the test had never even been invented.
  t

MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent article 
i read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date list, so i read 
things, save the links, and will go back and actually organize them later, so i 
DON'T have the links right now--said that, because of what the test tests, the 
antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be tested at any age.

if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our best to 
be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate it!



  On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
them real soon.

I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

Thanks

Sam

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Maybe That'll Make The Difference

MaryChristine


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread MaryChristine
i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:

there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age,
because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will
show their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond)
then.

is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV,
which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned
above then say 3 months is the best age?



On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:45 AM, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  What, exactly, is the question?  Do you want to know why you can test for
 FeLV at any age?

 Gary

 - Original Message -
 *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2008 12:01 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

 i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent article
 i read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date list, so i
 read things, save the links, and will go back and actually organize them
 later, so i DON'T have the links right now--said that, because of what the
 test tests, the antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be tested at any
 age.

 if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our
 best to be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate
 it!



 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
 have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
 born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
 them real soon.

 I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
 test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
 right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
 is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

 Thanks

 Sam

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 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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 --
 Spay  Neuter Your Neighbors!
 Maybe That'll Make The Difference

 MaryChristine

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 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
 signature database 3296 (20080724) __

 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

 http://www.eset.com


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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread MaryChristine
it used to be that if the queen was positive, all kittens were presumed to
be. likewise, if mom was negative, all kittens were presumed to be.

then mixed mom-and-litter combinations started showing up, and all sorts of
new theories were prosoed, and it's all up in the air again. from what can
gather, we really don't have a clue how mom can be one thing, and the
kittens either/or. maybe mom got pregnant late in the period while she was
throwing off the virus, and had already built up sufficient antibodies to
protect the kittens. maybe she was exposed LATE enough in the pregnancy that
the placental barrier was well established and the virus couldn't cross.
maybe it doesn't really cross the placental barrier at all, nor is
transmitted through the birth process itself--maybe it depends on hom many
positive aunties help with the kitten-raising and grooming. i've read all of
these suggestions in one place or another. we just don't know yet.

we don't know if the same 90-120 days that seems the safest interval for
retest (tho i've seen 60 given in some studies; i just don't trust it for
myself, because i've seen the higher number more often--if i got a second
positive test after only 60 days, i'd just retest in another 60 days anyway,
so.) is needed in kittens: with their immature immune systems, maybe 30
days is enough time--tho i hardly doubt it.

can you ask the vet who says 30 days to document it? theoretically, he must
be basing this recommendation on something, and asking him to show it to you
will make him look it up, and he just might find more up-to-date information
(or stuff that the rest of us need to have!). a GOOD vet will not hesitate
to do so, and either way, we get to build up our library of real references.

as for separating mom and babies, that never used to come up, because mom
and babies were always assumed to be the same. so a positive mom wasn't
taken away cuz her babies were just presumptively positive. i guess this is
why any pregnant cat coming into rescue needs to be tested BEFORE the babies
arrive, so that plans can be made--and kittens tested right away. i don't
know what the best choice is, here--i don't know if nursing positive kittens
can infect a negative wetnurse, tho if she's vaccinated, i'd say the
findings of no transmission to negatives would hold. this is just another
one we don't know nearly enough about--five years ago, there was no question
that a positive mom could ever have negative babies, or that any of her
positive babies could ever turn negative--they weren't even retested
(but neither were the adults, after all.)

sigh.

MC.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This is what has confused me.

 1.) If the feral queen is presumed positive, how long should you wait after
 separating the queen and kittens before testing the kittens?

 2.) If the queen is positive, can the kittens, over time, 'throw off' the
 virus?

 3.) If the 1st ELISA test is positive, how long should you wait before
 doing a follow up IFA test?



 I'm in a rural area.  No vets in my county.  The next county has 2 vet
 clinics.  One believes in PTS for any kitten that test positive and
 euthanizing the entire feral colony.  The other believes in ELISA retesting
 after 1 month.  PTS is out of the question for cats/kittens that appear to
 be healthy and one month just doesn't seem long enough.  So I rely on groups
 like this for guidance.

 Sharyl


 --- On *Fri, 7/25/08, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 From: MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:01 AM


  i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent
 article i read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date
 list, so i read things, save the links, and will go back and actually
 organize them later, so i DON'T have the links right now--said that, because
 of what the test tests, the antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be
 tested at any age.

 if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our
 best to be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate
 it!



 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
 have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
 born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
 them real soon.

 I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
 test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
 right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
 is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

 Thanks

 Sam

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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-25 Thread gary
OK, here we go.

The only reason to test a kitten for FIV before 6 months is to obtain a 
negative test and know for certain the kitten does NOT have FIV and can be 
adopted without the chance of FIV.  We all know that MOST kittens who test 
positive for FIV will test negative when retested around 6 months  of age.

For FeLV, the accuracy of the test itself is not affected by the age of the 
kitten (at least I have never seen any data to indicate that) however, it can 
take 1 to 3 months to develop FeLV antigens to a detectable level after 
exposure.  Some feel they are detectable in as little as 2 weeks.  The vet is 
just trying to avoid a false negative.

Unfortunately, there has not been enough study done to know just how much 
exposure and for what length of time it takes to infect a kitten or a cat.  An 
article in Shelter Medicine says, FeLV can be spread transplacentally from 
mother to offspring, but spread via nursing or grooming is more common.  
http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_feline_felv.shtml

They don't reference any data for that.  Sort of leaves you in a tough place if 
you have a know FeLV queen about to give birth, do the kittens already have it, 
or do you snatch them away as soon as they are born so they don't get it from 
milk or grooming? 

Hope that helps.

Gary 
  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryChristine 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens


  i guess the question is this, tho i may be wrong:

  there is no point in testing for FIV until at least six months of age, 
because both the ELISA and western blot test antibodies, and kittens will show 
their MOM'S antibodies until (and often for two or three motnsh beyond) then.

  is the only reason that the article i just read said you can test for FeLV, 
which tests antigens instead of antibodies? why would the vet mentioned above 
then say 3 months is the best age? 



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Re: [Felvtalk] Felv Testing Interval for kittens

2008-07-24 Thread MaryChristine
i've never gotten a straight answer to this question, tho a recent article i
read--remember, i'm in the process of compiling an up-to-date list, so i
read things, save the links, and will go back and actually organize them
later, so i DON'T have the links right now--said that, because of what the
test tests, the antigens instead of antibodies, kittens can be tested at any
age.

if there's anyone who can explain this to those of us who are doing our best
to be scientists when we really aren't, i know that i would appreciate it!



On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Could someone remind me of the age when testing kittens for Felv is. I
 have some 8 week old kittens, Miss'Tache, Gilbert, Perry, and Eeyore,
 born to a feral queen, queen is untested. My rescue group wants to test
 them real soon.

 I also have former tom cat who has tested positive for Felv via a snap
 test, he is in a different room from the kittens and from my cats. As of
 right now he is not showing any symptoms. He is a sweetheart, I think he
 is a dumped cat left to fend for himself.

 Thanks

 Sam

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