Re: Kelly Saveika hearing... I agree, this OT topic should be closed !!
I agree. Glenda, this is so inappropriate for this list. This is an inflammatory issue that does *not* belong on our FELVtalk list, I think everyone else understands this. This is a Feline Leukemia list, and that's a very clear boundary. I think FELVtalk has always been lenient about OT topics, which is great, but you're not even masking it as OT. The problem is it's a disagreement between folks, and can only serve to alienate folks and create hostility on this list, and we need the list for FELV topics that are going to help FELV cats and their people. If we can't understand this voluntarily, let's get James, the moderator, involved. Gloria On Dec 12, 2007, at 11:28 AM, Susan Hoffman wrote: The way to cool it down is to tell people the topic is closed, place anyone who doesn't understand closed on moderated status, and delete posts on the topic. Unfortunately this sort of nastiness is why groups need moderators. Sometimes things get out of hand and someone has to step in and take charge of the situation. Lance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James wouldn't be the first moderator to do that. Michael has tried to cool it down on one of the Yahoo! lists, but apparently a few people have an overwhelming compulsion to keep this going. I'd say that's a pretty sad situation as well, considering that they obviously have lots of energy, and they could take that and devote it all to taking care of cats instead siphoning off some to beat dead horses. That's how it goes, I guess. Lance On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:09:19 -0800 (PST), Susan Hoffman said: And why is it on this list? I would ask the moderator to declare a moratorium on this topic. It has nothing to do with FeLV and has degenerated into a flaming war. MaryChristine wrote: glenda, dear, exactly who and what gives you permission to post things that are supposedly private communications to me? On Dec 12, 2007 11:47 AM, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- From: Sheila Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:28 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' Subject: Fwd: Kelly Saveika hearing.. I just saw this post. Oh well, I am going to let it slide b/c I have bigger fish to fry, but... you are very good at cut and paste. I mean you managed the gist of it ok.. I AM watching you. Remember ARC in Midlothian, Tx and the hundreds of cats that suffered and died in the name of rescue? Years of being tied up in court and $40K later, but it was the best money I ever spent b/c it was FOR the animals. I thought if there are still any open minded people still left on this list you would like to know the disposition of some of the fifteen cats we rescued. Five have been adopted including one (Cinderella) I adopted myself and two that were adopted by Susan, six are going to barn placement, two will go to Best Friends, two are still too weak to place and are recovering from the effects of poor nutrition and dehydration (one of which had to have surgery) according to their veterinarian- although their prognosis is now good. On another note, I really do hope you all do go back to the focus of feline leukemia. I think this group must have had great focus at one time- I joined initially b/c I thought it did and b/c I felt I had a lot to offer the group b/c of my extensive experience w/ feline leukemia and b/c of my husbands participation in national boards. etc. I was excited to hear from other people across the country that had experience with feline leukemia. I really do hope the very best for all of you and I hope you all do really good things for the animals in your care. I hope you all will remember this though. You are the animals advocate. You are not the caretaker's advocate at the end of the day. While we all wish good things for the caretakers and we worry about anyone burning out and we offer mentoring, guidance and help, in the end there are multiple resources for people. There are nurses, doctors, mental health experts, counseling. you name it. BUT.. For the animals they abused, there is only YOU. You are bound to speak for THEM- the dead cats in the closets- no one else will. Best, Sheila Smith www.shadowcats.net Austin, Tx Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Lance Linimon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing/Barn home placements
Shelters put a lot of cats down who would make wonderful pets if given the opportunity. Cats who are fractious or undersocialized need a good foster home where someone will take the time to work with them. It is premature to send them to a barn home, especially when they have been so recently traumatized by the whole animal control/seizure/shelter cage experience. Could you simply forward my posts on this topic to sheila or susan or whomever has these cats? I'm active with Fix Our Ferals in Oakland, CA and on a nationwide feral cat list with almost 3000 members. We should be able to find safe indoor placements with feral-aware people for 6 cats. These cats have options. So please urge the people who have them to contact me before putting them outside somewhere. glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan, I do understand about believing some cats deserve to be socialized...I do know a number of the cats Shelia took in were FeLV cats and I think some so unsocial that the city shelter would have put them down.That is why Susan stepped in... These must have been the ones that were placed in the barn situation...I think if you go right to shadowcats or just come over and post on Michael's list...I'm not trying to steal anyone from the list they are on, but in my heart and soul, my interest is the cats and if you have better ideas for these cats, I'm with you. I trapped a couple ferals a couple weeks ago , they got spayed /neutered and I paid out of pocket for their rabies vaccinations, etc, but was forced to release them right back to their own environment...did find a lady willing to feed them, however...I am here in Nebraska...I'm from your area of California...things are very backward here for the animals. I will visit you offlist later. Thank you for caring...Glenda --- Susan Hoffman wrote: One last word on this, for the sake of the cats intended for barn home placements. To whomever is on this list and in contact with the people who actually have these cats, please have them contact me off-list. I know a lot of people who work with feral and undersocialized cats and surely we should be able to absorb 6 cats. Please have the person with these cats get in touch with me. Releasing cats who have been raised indoors to some outside location is not in the best interests of the cats. We can come up with a much better solution. MaryChristine wrote: glenda, dear, exactly who and what gives you permission to post things that are supposedly private communications to me? On Dec 12, 2007 11:47 AM, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- From: Sheila Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:28 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' Subject: Fwd: Kelly Saveika hearing.. I just saw this post. Oh well, I am going to let it slide b/c I have bigger fish to fry, but... you are very good at cut and paste. I mean you managed the gist of it ok.. I AM watching you. Remember ARC in Midlothian, Tx and the hundreds of cats that suffered and died in the name of rescue? Years of being tied up in court and $40K later, but it was the best money I ever spent b/c it was FOR the animals. I thought if there are still any open minded people still left on this list you would like to know the disposition of some of the fifteen cats we rescued. Five have been adopted including one (Cinderella) I adopted myself and two that were adopted by Susan, six are going to barn placement, two will go to Best Friends, two are still too weak to place and are recovering from the effects of poor nutrition and dehydration (one of which had to have surgery) according to their veterinarian- although their prognosis is now good. On another note, I really do hope you all do go back to the focus of feline leukemia. I think this group must have had great focus at one time- I joined initially b/c I thought it did and b/c I felt I had a lot to offer the group b/c of my extensive experience w/ feline leukemia and b/c of my husbands participation in national boards. etc. I was excited to hear from other people across the country that had experience with feline leukemia. I really do hope the very best for all of you and I hope you all do really good things for the animals in your care. I hope you all will remember this though. You are the animals advocate. You are not the caretaker's advocate at the end of the day. While we all wish good things for the caretakers and we worry about anyone burning out and we offer mentoring, guidance and help, in the end there are multiple resources for people. There are nurses, doctors, mental health experts, counseling. you name it. BUT.. For the animals they abused, there is only YOU. You are bound to speak for THEM- the dead cats in the closets- no one else will. Best, Sheila Smith
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing/Barn home placements
Bless your heart...I sure will... --- Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shelters put a lot of cats down who would make wonderful pets if given the opportunity. Cats who are fractious or undersocialized need a good foster home where someone will take the time to work with them. It is premature to send them to a barn home, especially when they have been so recently traumatized by the whole animal control/seizure/shelter cage experience. Could you simply forward my posts on this topic to sheila or susan or whomever has these cats? I'm active with Fix Our Ferals in Oakland, CA and on a nationwide feral cat list with almost 3000 members. We should be able to find safe indoor placements with feral-aware people for 6 cats. These cats have options. So please urge the people who have them to contact me before putting them outside somewhere. glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Susan, I do understand about believing some cats deserve to be socialized...I do know a number of the cats Shelia took in were FeLV cats and I think some so unsocial that the city shelter would have put them down.That is why Susan stepped in... These must have been the ones that were placed in the barn situation...I think if you go right to shadowcats or just come over and post on Michael's list...I'm not trying to steal anyone from the list they are on, but in my heart and soul, my interest is the cats and if you have better ideas for these cats, I'm with you. I trapped a couple ferals a couple weeks ago , they got spayed /neutered and I paid out of pocket for their rabies vaccinations, etc, but was forced to release them right back to their own environment...did find a lady willing to feed them, however...I am here in Nebraska...I'm from your area of California...things are very backward here for the animals. I will visit you offlist later. Thank you for caring...Glenda --- Susan Hoffman wrote: One last word on this, for the sake of the cats intended for barn home placements. To whomever is on this list and in contact with the people who actually have these cats, please have them contact me off-list. I know a lot of people who work with feral and undersocialized cats and surely we should be able to absorb 6 cats. Please have the person with these cats get in touch with me. Releasing cats who have been raised indoors to some outside location is not in the best interests of the cats. We can come up with a much better solution. MaryChristine wrote: glenda, dear, exactly who and what gives you permission to post things that are supposedly private communications to me? On Dec 12, 2007 11:47 AM, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- From: Sheila Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:28 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' Subject: Fwd: Kelly Saveika hearing.. I just saw this post. Oh well, I am going to let it slide b/c I have bigger fish to fry, but... you are very good at cut and paste. I mean you managed the gist of it ok.. I AM watching you. Remember ARC in Midlothian, Tx and the hundreds of cats that suffered and died in the name of rescue? Years of being tied up in court and $40K later, but it was the best money I ever spent b/c it was FOR the animals. I thought if there are still any open minded people still left on this list you would like to know the disposition of some of the fifteen cats we rescued. Five have been adopted including one (Cinderella) I adopted myself and two that were adopted by Susan, six are going to barn placement, two will go to Best Friends, two are still too weak to place and are recovering from the effects of poor nutrition and dehydration (one of which had to have surgery) according to their veterinarian- although their prognosis is now good. On another note, I really do hope you all do go back to the focus of feline leukemia. I think this group must have had great focus at one time- I joined initially b/c I thought it did and b/c I felt I had a lot to offer the group b/c of my extensive experience w/ feline leukemia and b/c of my husbands participation in national boards. etc. I was excited to hear from other people across the country that had experience with feline leukemia. I really do hope the very best for all of you and I hope you all do really good things for the animals in your care. I hope you all will remember this though. You are the animals advocate. You are not the caretaker's advocate at the end of the day. While we all wish good things for the caretakers and we worry about anyone burning out and we offer mentoring, guidance and help, in the end there are multiple resources for people. There are nurses, doctors, mental health
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing/Barn home placements
And if the cats have already been transferred to barn homes perhaps we can retrieve them and work on indoor placement with an eye towards socialization for adoption. glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bless your heart...I sure will... --- Susan Hoffman wrote: Shelters put a lot of cats down who would make wonderful pets if given the opportunity. Cats who are fractious or undersocialized need a good foster home where someone will take the time to work with them. It is premature to send them to a barn home, especially when they have been so recently traumatized by the whole animal control/seizure/shelter cage experience. Could you simply forward my posts on this topic to sheila or susan or whomever has these cats? I'm active with Fix Our Ferals in Oakland, CA and on a nationwide feral cat list with almost 3000 members. We should be able to find safe indoor placements with feral-aware people for 6 cats. These cats have options. So please urge the people who have them to contact me before putting them outside somewhere. glenda Goodman wrote: Hi Susan, I do understand about believing some cats deserve to be socialized...I do know a number of the cats Shelia took in were FeLV cats and I think some so unsocial that the city shelter would have put them down.That is why Susan stepped in... These must have been the ones that were placed in the barn situation...I think if you go right to shadowcats or just come over and post on Michael's list...I'm not trying to steal anyone from the list they are on, but in my heart and soul, my interest is the cats and if you have better ideas for these cats, I'm with you. I trapped a couple ferals a couple weeks ago , they got spayed /neutered and I paid out of pocket for their rabies vaccinations, etc, but was forced to release them right back to their own environment...did find a lady willing to feed them, however...I am here in Nebraska...I'm from your area of California...things are very backward here for the animals. I will visit you offlist later. Thank you for caring...Glenda --- Susan Hoffman wrote: One last word on this, for the sake of the cats intended for barn home placements. To whomever is on this list and in contact with the people who actually have these cats, please have them contact me off-list. I know a lot of people who work with feral and undersocialized cats and surely we should be able to absorb 6 cats. Please have the person with these cats get in touch with me. Releasing cats who have been raised indoors to some outside location is not in the best interests of the cats. We can come up with a much better solution. MaryChristine wrote: glenda, dear, exactly who and what gives you permission to post things that are supposedly private communications to me? On Dec 12, 2007 11:47 AM, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- From: Sheila Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:28 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' Subject: Fwd: Kelly Saveika hearing.. I just saw this post. Oh well, I am going to let it slide b/c I have bigger fish to fry, but... you are very good at cut and paste. I mean you managed the gist of it ok.. I AM watching you. Remember ARC in Midlothian, Tx and the hundreds of cats that suffered and died in the name of rescue? Years of being tied up in court and $40K later, but it was the best money I ever spent b/c it was FOR the animals. I thought if there are still any open minded people still left on this list you would like to know the disposition of some of the fifteen cats we rescued. Five have been adopted including one (Cinderella) I adopted myself and two that were adopted by Susan, six are going to barn placement, two will go to Best Friends, two are still too weak to place and are recovering from the effects of poor nutrition and dehydration (one of which had to have surgery) according to their veterinarian- although their prognosis is now good. On another note, I really do hope you all do go back to the focus of feline leukemia. I think this group must have had great focus at one time- I joined initially b/c I thought it did and b/c I felt I had a lot to offer the group b/c of my extensive experience w/ feline leukemia and b/c of my husbands participation in national boards. etc. I was excited to hear from other people across the country that had experience with feline leukemia. I really do hope the very best for all of you and I hope you all do really good things for the animals in your care. I hope you all will remember this though. You are the animals advocate. You are not the caretaker's advocate at the end of the day. While we all wish good things for the caretakers and we worry about anyone
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing..........
Thanks for the info. I'm not reading FELVtalk that much lately, but I think unless these are FELV cats, this sort of thing is pretty Off Topic, controversial, and better for a different list, I'd think. Best of luck, Gloria On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Susan Dubose wrote: Hello, just thought you would like to see this. Please click onto www.austinhumanesociety.org and www.shadowcats.net if you REALLY want to help the cats. Susan DuBose Sheila Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I attended the hearings today. I saw the video and listened to the court testimony. The video showed the contents of her house. Formed fecal material along with diarrhea and other elimination products coated the house. I have never witnessed anything such as what I saw today. The house was filthy, trash, litter, something you see on Animal Cops and nothing I can ever get you to visualize with mere words. I do not think you could walk two steps without walking in stool. It was everywhere. On the stair steps, on just about every surface you could see. The video showed many cats, most with obvious URI and /or other illnesses. There was an obese cat under the sink, who later (it was testified) “drank for several minutes when it was offered water and drug itself on its belly to get to the food offered it when it was taken to Town Lake. The cat died during the night and was found dead the next morning” Lab results showed the cat died from hepatic lipidosis. It left TLAC seven weeks ago at 23 pounds and was found to be at 18 pounds on intake at this time. The only water available to it according to testimony was the filthy water in the toilet which the cat was too weak to get to. (This cats name I believe was Mia) The dead cat in the closet was said to be there aprox two months according to expert witness. The animal was barely identifiable and had melded into the carpet and was completely desiccated. When told of the findings in her closet, according to testimony, Kelly Saveika said, “ I wondered what happened to that cat…” I could go on and on and on, but suffice to say, this was horrendous. This is not about a messy house, or things getting a little out of control. This is about a horrendous situation where animals suffered and died. This is about animals that lived in a situation that was enabled by anyone that knew about this and said nothing. I am SO sick of rescue people that defend rescue people and blame everyone else for the situation they created. WHO is speaking for the animals?. I would honestly rather see these animals humanely euthanized than to live in the conditions I saw them living in. For people to blame TLAC for this is ludicrous. I personally do not want to hear one more person say “poor Kelly” or hear how the Rescue community supports this org. All I can think of is who was with that poor cat as it lay dying? Who supported Willa Anyone who sat through that video and can still justify what they saw, well…… Unfortunately the judge allowed her to keep three of her personal cats. This is not gossip or rumor. This is part of the testimony presented today and is part of a public record. Sheila And this. Can you believe this (portion after Jerry's quote)? Kelley Saveika is positioning herself as an expert less than 48 hours after her hearing! I assume she was convicted of animal cruelty because they confiscated her rescue cats... She says, among other things, I think I mentioned this before but I study these things and go to conferences to learn how to get to no kill, or very very close to no kill. This from a woman who had a dead cat in her closet for two months and a cat dying from neglect under her sink? She makes my skin crawl - Original Message - From: Kelley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:36 AM Subject: [centraltexasrescue] Re: Attention all Texas rescuers! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jerry Dunham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Nov 2007 at 7:36, Toni Liguori wrote: Unfortunately, I think that to get the city to listen at all, Nathan's name has to be completely omitted from any proposal. I think that's an excellent idea. His proposals are winners, but the man himself is so confrontational that his presence immediately polarizes any discussion. We need to press for the programs and leave the personalities out of it. There are some other people who are not so polarizing who are making great strides. Barbara Carr's shelter in Erie County NY killed only 88 cats and 0 dogs last year. She has an amazing offsite adoption program. I think I mentioned this before but I study these things and go to conferences to learn how to get to no kill, or very very close to no kill. I hate to think of 88 cats being killed but compare that to TLAC. I adore Nathan Winograd, but I don't care if people use his name. What is
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing..........
I talked to several people that sat through the 3 hour hearing where the A/C video WAS shown. Lots of people wanted to attend themselves, and did so, including my vet's wife, Sheila, just so that they could verify first hand information. Sheila ended up commiting to 15 cats that the Humane Society did not take, due to the fact that they were unsocialize young adults that had been collected as kittens and just turned loose into this pit of squalor... No, I did not attend, I had too much to do elsewhere. The cats have been out of her care for 10 days now, so of course they look better. But on the A/C video that was shown in court, they all had pus filled eyes snot. When the news says that we are saying it's the worse case we have seen, well, I think that says it all. Yes, the woman does need help, however, she needs to stop pretending that everything is ok. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Kelly Saveika hearing.. I don't know what the circumstances are here because although the Animal control film made accusations they never really showed the inside of the house and since they are seizing the animals I don't expect them to say anything nice. The animals I saw on the film didn't look sick or undernourished or but I wasn't there and nothing was really shown of the inside of the house. Susan since you brought this up, were you there in the house while the animals were being seized or are you repeating what someone told you?? That said it just from what little I saw, it didn't look very good, I for one am on the animals side always and unfortunately whether these animals are FeLV+ or not, when a list member is taking money from group members to help with the animals, lawyers, whatever I do not want to help keep a hoarder in business. I'm not saying this is the case but if it is count me out and I DO want to know. Hoarders are sick and have no clue they are harming the very animals they profess to want to help, they do not see the destruction they are causing. If there is even the possibility of this I want to know so I don't help keep the situation going on. Kelley, I don't know if the accusations are true but if they are please get the help you need ... if you need the help and don't get it only cause more harm and only sadness will follow. My prayers are with you at this time. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Kelly Saveika hearing..........
Susan, Well we have these problems here too and when AC raids a house and it is on the news they show actual footage of the inside to back up what they are saying. Since this wasn't done in this case I have to have reservations that AC was probably exaggerating what they actually saw, believe me the news loves these kinds of horror stories and has NO problem showing just how bad it is so it probably wasn't as bad as foul mouth Sheila told you, but since your friends I understand you taking her every word as gospel. Also when I die and have to face myself and all the things I did here, there aren't going to be too many I will have to feel bad about so I sleep pretty good thank you. I wonder how Sheilas vet husband feels about her foul mouth tearing apart fest of people you two don't like?? I must say it puts a bad light on him but I guess he doesn't care or doesn't know. Not very professional of either of them in my opinion. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com