Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:51:25 -0600 Roger Pack rogerdpa...@gmail.com wrote: I guess most of the decision making will be decided in person or something like that [?] no, we arent making decisions in person. this is something i can speak for the project on. i'm guessing its less than 10 ffmpeg devels showing up to vdd in sept. there will be some discussions in person of course. discussions on irc , email and on ml, decisions on ml so that all devels can take part. since we currently dont have a leader, i guess we're back to straight mob-rule democracy. unless we can get baptiste to come back and be leader... Once there's general concensus around what to do I will follow it, please post an announcement or something :) of course. I'll admit one of the thoughts I had for recombining was (cough) basically directing new patches to libav, then somebody [michael? not as a committer, just contributor] going back through the last 4 years of commits and trying to get them committed to libav. Fun fun (not really--just a lot of work). And possibly not an option dunno. this idea to cherry pick has been suggested already. it is under consideration by everyone right now. some people have made up their minds. 4 years of patches would be quite a lot of work. michael was clear that he did not want to deal with merging, forks or hostility anymore, so i dont believe its nice to ask him to do this. which means finding volunteers to do this idea. somewhat related, there was talk on irc of a workaround to avoid landing on a merge when using git bisect. i forgot it already. there are of course many other ideas. earlier in this thread it was suggested to write down your ideas and we'll see how many of them we all agree on, then we'll vote on all of that i guess. Cheers! -roger- hope i answered some of the questions that i could. well this is just my opinion i dont speak for the project. -compn ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
Roger Pack in gmane.comp.video.ffmpeg.devel (Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:51:25 -0600): I will also admit my one other concern: that without Michael there won't be enough active leadership *total* to fix all the annoying bugs and everything. There is another concern: Michael was doing the merges from Libav into FFmpeg. If that stops Libav and FFmpeg will drift apart and gradually become incompatible. That would be a real pity. -- Jan ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:23:47 +0200 Jan Ehrhardt php...@ehrhardt.nl wrote: Roger Pack in gmane.comp.video.ffmpeg.devel (Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:51:25 -0600): I will also admit my one other concern: that without Michael there won't be enough active leadership *total* to fix all the annoying bugs and everything. There is another concern: Michael was doing the merges from Libav into FFmpeg. If that stops Libav and FFmpeg will drift apart and gradually become incompatible. That would be a real pity. Someone already took over merging. And Michael not doing merges anymore was the only actual effect of the resignation so far. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Roger Pack rogerdpa...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/31/15, Michael Niedermayer mich...@niedermayer.cc wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. Hey thanks sooo much for your work on FFmpeg over the years. I'll admit it's one of the few communities that actually has felt maintained (mostly by yourself). I also understand that leading is lonely work. It always is unfortunately... I guess most of the decision making will be decided in person or something like that [?] Once there's general concensus around what to do I will follow it, please post an announcement or something :) FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! will i ever return ? ... i might ..., if theres a nice and friendly environment, no hostile forks or at least none i have to interact with. But i will certainly not return as leader, this is not really a role i ever truly liked, more one i ended up with. OK so I take this to mean that even if the general concensus was let's just keep them split, and quit the merges from libav you would still step down at this point? (I guess my real question is what's the major objective? To reunify, or to make things more amenable to Michael? My assumption is that it's to reunify the community?) I will also admit my one other concern: that without Michael there won't be enough active leadership *total* to fix all the annoying bugs and everything. I.e. it will just become a worse muck. But if the hope is that the guys at libav have enough time/energy to do it all then the community as a whole would benefit, agree. Glancing randomly at https://lists.libav.org/pipermail/libav-devel/2015-August/thread.html It appears that most active on the mailing list is Luca Barbato and Anton Khirnov and Martin Storsjö(?) though I don't know much about it I'm sure there are others lurking. I suppose though if we combined forces between the FFmpeg people together with them it might be enough leadership. Or at least easier than it is now [?] and definitely less duplication of effort. So possibly a net win. I'll admit one of the thoughts I had for recombining was (cough) basically directing new patches to libav, then somebody [michael? not as a committer, just contributor] going back through the last 4 years of commits and trying to get them committed to libav. Fun fun (not really--just a lot of work). And possibly not an option dunno. Especially as somehow leader is being interpreted by everyone as the guy who does all work noone else does, and takes all responsibility noone else wants to take am i still available for consulting jobs releated to FFmpeg? yes, of course i cant gurantee it for the very distant future but currently yes. And in the very distant future, its a maybe, so just ask if theres something ... what about root, git admin roles, ...? Well iam happy to pass them on to whoever the community chooses and trusts. But please be very carefull who you choose! until someone else is choosen i can continue doing the basic things like security updates and opening git accounts, aka theres no urgency in choosing someone, rather please choose wise than quick. what about GSoC? I agreed to mentor and admin that and i will of course finish that for this summer. I may or may not be available in future FFmpeg GSoCs. If you now think ohh god what should i do, michael resigned very simple, FFmpeg is yours, that is everyones. try your best to make FFmpeg be the best. Post patches, review patches, apply patches, discuss code and design. Report bugs, bisect, debug and fix bugs, add features, help users. Do
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On 7/31/15, Michael Niedermayer mich...@niedermayer.cc wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. Hey thanks sooo much for your work on FFmpeg over the years. I'll admit it's one of the few communities that actually has felt maintained (mostly by yourself). I also understand that leading is lonely work. It always is unfortunately... I guess most of the decision making will be decided in person or something like that [?] Once there's general concensus around what to do I will follow it, please post an announcement or something :) FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! will i ever return ? ... i might ..., if theres a nice and friendly environment, no hostile forks or at least none i have to interact with. But i will certainly not return as leader, this is not really a role i ever truly liked, more one i ended up with. OK so I take this to mean that even if the general concensus was let's just keep them split, and quit the merges from libav you would still step down at this point? (I guess my real question is what's the major objective? To reunify, or to make things more amenable to Michael? My assumption is that it's to reunify the community?) I will also admit my one other concern: that without Michael there won't be enough active leadership *total* to fix all the annoying bugs and everything. I.e. it will just become a worse muck. But if the hope is that the guys at libav have enough time/energy to do it all then the community as a whole would benefit, agree. Glancing randomly at https://lists.libav.org/pipermail/libav-devel/2015-August/thread.html It appears that most active on the mailing list is Luca Barbato and Anton Khirnov and Martin Storsjö(?) though I don't know much about it I'm sure there are others lurking. I suppose though if we combined forces between the FFmpeg people together with them it might be enough leadership. Or at least easier than it is now [?] and definitely less duplication of effort. So possibly a net win. I'll admit one of the thoughts I had for recombining was (cough) basically directing new patches to libav, then somebody [michael? not as a committer, just contributor] going back through the last 4 years of commits and trying to get them committed to libav. Fun fun (not really--just a lot of work). And possibly not an option dunno. Especially as somehow leader is being interpreted by everyone as the guy who does all work noone else does, and takes all responsibility noone else wants to take am i still available for consulting jobs releated to FFmpeg? yes, of course i cant gurantee it for the very distant future but currently yes. And in the very distant future, its a maybe, so just ask if theres something ... what about root, git admin roles, ...? Well iam happy to pass them on to whoever the community chooses and trusts. But please be very carefull who you choose! until someone else is choosen i can continue doing the basic things like security updates and opening git accounts, aka theres no urgency in choosing someone, rather please choose wise than quick. what about GSoC? I agreed to mentor and admin that and i will of course finish that for this summer. I may or may not be available in future FFmpeg GSoCs. If you now think ohh god what should i do, michael resigned very simple, FFmpeg is yours, that is everyones. try your best to make FFmpeg be the best. Post patches, review patches, apply patches, discuss code and design. Report bugs, bisect, debug and fix bugs, add features, help users. Do friendly merges, and if you like do hostile merges. Its all up to you now! PS: To push a merge, i think
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On 03/08/15 20:43, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 08:51:10AM +0100, tim nicholson wrote: On 31/07/15 17:19, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies - step-by-step on the release process - some overview on the sysadmin state (like, what happens with the recent server offers?) i accepted the 2 offers which noone objected against (on the ML), so FFmpeg should get 2 boxes that things can be moved to and which should be dependable it does need volunteers doing the work. Maybe lou, beastd, tim nich, roberto and you would be willing to help move things to them I am up for assisting where I can, but August is going to be mainly holiday for me ;) it was discussed to move things into virtual machines (qemu) for higher security, isolation and ease of future moving. If we go kvm etc, prebuilding a base image beforehand that can then be forked for postfix/Apache/trak etc would be useful. yes In fact there are some pre-built images already for some things, e.g https://www.turnkeylinux.org/issue-tracking?page=1 has these been build by someone who knows about security ? or would it require a security audit to ensure no auth stuff /session keys / host keys / prng state / whatever is carried over from the public image ? From a quick look they seem to know what they are doing. On first run it behaves somewhat like the end of an install process first boot, so each instance is different with regenerated keys. When I tried 2 separate instances from scrach I confirmed they had different host keys. I didn't go deeper than that at the time. Obviously prng integrity is important and would need checking. [...] -- Tim. Key Fingerprint 38CF DB09 3ED0 F607 8B67 6CED 0C0B FC44 8B0B FC83 ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On 31/07/15 17:19, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies - step-by-step on the release process - some overview on the sysadmin state (like, what happens with the recent server offers?) i accepted the 2 offers which noone objected against (on the ML), so FFmpeg should get 2 boxes that things can be moved to and which should be dependable it does need volunteers doing the work. Maybe lou, beastd, tim nich, roberto and you would be willing to help move things to them I am up for assisting where I can, but August is going to be mainly holiday for me ;) it was discussed to move things into virtual machines (qemu) for higher security, isolation and ease of future moving. If we go kvm etc, prebuilding a base image beforehand that can then be forked for postfix/Apache/trak etc would be useful. In fact there are some pre-built images already for some things, e.g https://www.turnkeylinux.org/issue-tracking?page=1 that would just need the data migrating. moving to the new servers could be done before or after moving to VMs of course or while doing it in the same step [...] ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel -- Tim. Key Fingerprint 38CF DB09 3ED0 F607 8B67 6CED 0C0B FC44 8B0B FC83 ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 08:51:10AM +0100, tim nicholson wrote: On 31/07/15 17:19, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies - step-by-step on the release process - some overview on the sysadmin state (like, what happens with the recent server offers?) i accepted the 2 offers which noone objected against (on the ML), so FFmpeg should get 2 boxes that things can be moved to and which should be dependable it does need volunteers doing the work. Maybe lou, beastd, tim nich, roberto and you would be willing to help move things to them I am up for assisting where I can, but August is going to be mainly holiday for me ;) it was discussed to move things into virtual machines (qemu) for higher security, isolation and ease of future moving. If we go kvm etc, prebuilding a base image beforehand that can then be forked for postfix/Apache/trak etc would be useful. yes In fact there are some pre-built images already for some things, e.g https://www.turnkeylinux.org/issue-tracking?page=1 has these been build by someone who knows about security ? or would it require a security audit to ensure no auth stuff /session keys / host keys / prng state / whatever is carried over from the public image ? [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness. -- Aristotle signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On date Friday 2015-07-31 15:53:04 +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! will i ever return ? ... i might ..., if theres a nice and friendly environment, no hostile forks or at least none i have to interact with. But i will certainly not return as leader, this is not really a role i ever truly liked, more one i ended up with. Especially as somehow leader is being interpreted by everyone as the guy who does all work noone else does, and takes all responsibility noone else wants to take I want to thank you for all the impressive work you've done so far, if you decided this abruptly it's probably time for you to release the burden and enjoy some relax and pursue other objectives and interests in your life. I only hoped that you would have done this in a more progressive way, leaving involved people to realize what to do next after your resignation. Indeed you've been by far the most important person in the project for several years, and now that you resign the project and will probably change deeply, for better or for worse. On the other hand I understand that if you decided to resign this way, you have your good reasons, and I accept this, and this abruptness will probably solicit more energic action from all the involved contributors. Indeed, your major involvement in so many areas of the project was one of its current main vulnerabilities, since it depended on a single person. Now I'm curious to see how the community around the project will cope with it and if the project will be able to recover. About the the guy who does all work noone else does, and takes all responsibility noone else wants to take I can understand this very well, and I understand how taking this role of leadership, especially in a voluntary based project, and having to cope with all the critics which comes from that, can be exhausting and overwhelming, and I was concerned more than one time about how you was personally able to cope with that. Dealing with such a role is not easy, and you deserve all the respect for being able to keep the burden for so much time. I understand that taking all these responsabilities can be an attractor for scorn and contempt, since people tend to take for granted all the duties, and complain about all the mistakes and disagreements, so I want to express here again my personal gratitude for your contribution. You did a lot for the multimedia community and for the free software community in general, and your personal contribution is impressive. I always found your attitude very helpful, even in spite of some sarcastic comments that you was used to make some years ago, and your honesty and frankness refreshing, and they contributed to make of FFmpeg the very successfull and cornerstone project it actually is, despite the many fights and flames it had to tackle. My wish is that now you'll be able now to spend more time for your own health and wellness. And of course I'd like you to be around the project, especially during this transitioning period. Losing your contribution and intimate knowledge of the code as well as of the theory and technology, as well as your personality, would be a tremendous loss. [...] If you now think ohh god what should i do, michael resigned very simple, FFmpeg is yours, that is everyones. try your best to make FFmpeg be the best. Post patches, review patches, apply patches, discuss code and design. Report bugs, bisect, debug and fix bugs, add features, help users. Do friendly merges, and if you like do hostile merges. Its all up to you now! I have no good
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 03:53:04PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! If some FFmpeg developers are still willing to do that (that is, maybe partially on their respective maintainership areas), may we ask you to document more your process? If that is possible, maybe not limited to these merges. ill try to document things You have been doing an outstanding work for years, and this includes notably: - development - reviews - patch merges - merge of libav - releases heres my release checklist (slightly cleaned up, not sure how usefull it is or if this is too terse thats just pretty much what i used as notes for it) someone could put that in doc/ if wanted, having it in git might simplify work on it fix copyright years rename version next in changeolog to X.Y add -dev tag on commit after release branched add seperator for release position in APIChanges previous name suggestions: cmopn: einstein ? microchip_ michaelni: Von Neumann microchip_ lorentz, poincaré, desitter, de broglie, etc - http://phys.kent.edu/~manley/physicists.html michaelni: Gauss, Galois, Viterbi, Darwin, Feynman (check spelling) RELEASE, VERSION, Doxygen files should contain the correct version make sure qatar is pulled run fate run abi-test delete Changelog, if its outdated make sure you didnt include binaries test make install test on arm, mingw, mips, linux32 gpg sign make sure permissions are ok also gpg permissions upload update IRC topics of all 3 channels if needed update download page check we dont have unmaintained release branches git tags push tags to repo, dont forget github update doxygen links in src/documentation for website update versions on trac tar --exclude-vcs -cvjf ffmpeg-0.7.8.tar.bz2 ffmpeg-0.7. ./configure --cc='ccache gcc' --samples=/home/michael/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite/ make -j12 check make -j12 test ffplay by hand update security page, get CVEs [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Complexity theory is the science of finding the exact solution to an approximation. Benchmarking OTOH is finding an approximation of the exact signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 03:53:04PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! If some FFmpeg developers are still willing to do that (that is, maybe partially on their respective maintainership areas), may we ask you to document more your process? If that is possible, maybe not limited to these merges. You have been doing an outstanding work for years, and this includes notably: - development - reviews - patch merges - merge of libav - releases - security fixes - GSoC/OPW/... mentoring - misc logistic - sysadmin So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies - step-by-step on the release process - some overview on the sysadmin state (like, what happens with the recent server offers?) I know this is asking a lot, but I believe it's important for the future of the project and a good bootstrap to distribute tasks between those willing to, even if it's just temporary. [...] PS: To push a merge, i think this wasnt documented, you need to add a Merged-by: to the commit message, thats the only check, i have no special premissions or anything to push merges. ...typically not just abrupt random hint like this :) [...] PS3: I would suggest a new leader if there was a clear pick, a year or 2 ago i would have suggested stefano or clement but they are not so active currently. Maybe a good candidate will appear in the future or stefano ubitux will become more active again in which case i would suggest one of them as leader if the community wants to have a leader and they agree. Heh, while I appreciate to see myself mentioned here, it is obvious to everyone that this was (and is) not something very realistic. On the other hand, I think this is an extremely great opportunity for the toxicity between the two projects to end, so I'm willing to help the best as I can during the time window that would lead to a viable solution. So far, I can see that things can go either very well, or extremely wrong, depending on various factors. - Libav refuses any cooperation (or some FFmpeg devs disrupt the process) and use this as an opportunity to proclaim more independence, which would lead to indeed a real fork, ending in the death of one or the two projects. This leading to the loss of features/fixes on either one or both sides. - Libav and FFmpeg can come into agreements and maybe join forces, or at least stops the acid burns for the users, leading to less stress for everyone involved. But in any case, this won't be solved today, and at least for the next days, weeks and maybe month, the FFmpeg machine need to continue to work, so we probably need some little help. I just tried to probe for a meeting with Libav developers, and I'd like to hear more about what both sides think of all of this. Thanks to everyone, for everything they did and will do in the future for FFmpeg and the community ! As I said to you already privately, this comes as a surprise, but hey, it's crazy how long you kept up with all of this. I hope you can enjoy some less stressful time disconnected from everything, and thank you very much for everything you've done so far. See you space cowboy. -- Clément B. pgpDa1JxlQYHQ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies - step-by-step on the release process - some overview on the sysadmin state (like, what happens with the recent server offers?) i accepted the 2 offers which noone objected against (on the ML), so FFmpeg should get 2 boxes that things can be moved to and which should be dependable it does need volunteers doing the work. Maybe lou, beastd, tim nich, roberto and you would be willing to help move things to them it was discussed to move things into virtual machines (qemu) for higher security, isolation and ease of future moving. moving to the new servers could be done before or after moving to VMs of course or while doing it in the same step [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. -- Socrates signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:53:04 +0200 Michael Niedermayer mich...@niedermayer.cc wrote: Hi all oh no glorious leader has resigned. oh well. thanks for putting up with all of that crap, michael. ffmpeg has become one of those projects that is required on all puters now. without your hard work it may have fallen to gstreamer or some other horrible wrapper. ;) i do have one thing to ask of everyone, moving forward, can we please not blame michael for every single thing now? instead of complaining , send patches instead. -compn ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:53:04 +0200 Michael Niedermayer mich...@niedermayer.cc wrote: Hi all Ive been in FFmepg since 14 years and been the leader since 11 years and i feel that iam not the best person for the leader position. I had hoped for a long time that the fork situation would resolve and both sides somehow merging back into one team. All the Libav developers joining FFmpeg again. But even now as the last distributions are preparing to remove Libav, still theres no hint of that happening. Maybe even the opposite. The community is split and its very difficult to be the leader when one is on one side of this split and the other tries everything to push me out I hope my resignation will make it easier for the teams to find back together and avoid a more complete split which would otherwise be the result sooner or later as the trees diverge and merging all improvments becomes too difficult for me to do. also before my resignation, i offer all maintainers who dont yet have, direct write access as i likely will not comb through the ML anymore or not as frequently to apply patches, please send me your public SSH key if you are de facto maintaining or working on some part of FFmpeg or are listed in MAINTAINERs. If people want to continue merges from libav, someone else will have to do these. Indeed i fully admit the work and pressure caused by the merges is a main reason for my resignation. FFmpeg belongs to the FFmpeg developers and the FFmpeg community! will i ever return ? ... i might ..., if theres a nice and friendly environment, no hostile forks or at least none i have to interact with. But i will certainly not return as leader, this is not really a role i ever truly liked, more one i ended up with. Especially as somehow leader is being interpreted by everyone as the guy who does all work noone else does, and takes all responsibility noone else wants to take am i still available for consulting jobs releated to FFmpeg? yes, of course i cant gurantee it for the very distant future but currently yes. And in the very distant future, its a maybe, so just ask if theres something ... what about root, git admin roles, ...? Well iam happy to pass them on to whoever the community chooses and trusts. But please be very carefull who you choose! until someone else is choosen i can continue doing the basic things like security updates and opening git accounts, aka theres no urgency in choosing someone, rather please choose wise than quick. what about GSoC? I agreed to mentor and admin that and i will of course finish that for this summer. I may or may not be available in future FFmpeg GSoCs. If you now think ohh god what should i do, michael resigned very simple, FFmpeg is yours, that is everyones. try your best to make FFmpeg be the best. Post patches, review patches, apply patches, discuss code and design. Report bugs, bisect, debug and fix bugs, add features, help users. Do friendly merges, and if you like do hostile merges. Its all up to you now! PS: To push a merge, i think this wasnt documented, you need to add a Merged-by: to the commit message, thats the only check, i have no special premissions or anything to push merges. PS2: Be carefull about who will be in charge of key infrastructure! and also where power moves when thouse in charge then resign. PS3: I would suggest a new leader if there was a clear pick, a year or 2 ago i would have suggested stefano or clement but they are not so active currently. Maybe a good candidate will appear in the future or stefano ubitux will become more active again in which case i would suggest one of them as leader if the community wants to have a leader and they agree. Thanks to everyone, for everything they did and will do in the future for FFmpeg and the community ! I didn't always agree with your way of maintaining FFmpeg, but the work you did was impressive. I also hope that this will eventually lead to FFmpeg and Libav being one project again. And I hope that this is not the end of you as FFmpeg contributor. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 09:27:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies The merge process i used is quite simple one trick i forgot as it happens with multi user git when doing a merge someone else occasionally pushes something before one can push the finished merge to update/rebase a local merge onto some updated origin the attached script works most of the time. note, this works only with a single commit/merge locally if you have multiple merges which arent pushed it wont work also the result should be looked at quickly before pushing [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not approve, and what they approve I do not know. -- Epicurus #!/bin/bash set -e # set -v # set -x git diff HEAD | grep . exit 1 || true git show | grep '^Merge: [a-f0-9][a-f0-9]* [a-f0-9][a-f0-9]*$' /dev/null #TOMERGE=`git show | grep 'Merge commit' | sed 's/.*'\''\(.*\)'\''/\1/'` TOMERGE=`git show | grep '^Merge:' | sed 's/Merge: [a-f0-9][a-f0-9]* \(.*\)/\1/'` OLDCOMMIT=`git show | grep '^commit ' | sed 's/commit//'` git diff HEAD^ mergerebase.tmp git reset --hard HEAD^ git pull --rebase git merge --stat --no-commit --log $TOMERGE -Xrename-threshold=10 -Xpatience | sort git diff HEAD | patch -p1 -R patch -p1 mergerebase.tmp git commit -a -C $OLDCOMMIT signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 09:54:52PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 09:27:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote: [...] So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need to have some help for: - guidelines on the merge strategies The merge process i used is quite simple one trick i forgot another thing that comes to mind when merges are done 1 commit at a time bisect works fine if merging more commits in a single merge then bisect will end on the libav tree and whatever test one has will generally not work on libav in a meaningfull way. So using only 1 commit per merge helps with future bisectability alot. [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB The educated differ from the uneducated as much as the living from the dead. -- Aristotle signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 05:37:12PM +0200, Clément Bœsch wrote:
[...]
So in order for the community to continue this, I'd say we probably need
to have some help for:
- guidelines on the merge strategies
The merge process i used is quite simple
1.
merge.conflictstyle=diff3 (in git config somewhere)
2.
git fetch --all
3.
git log ..qatar/master--pretty='%H %s'
4. pick one hash at a time into (start with the oldest)
git merge --stat --log hash here -Xrename-threshold=10 -Xpatience | sort
then open files in text editor and edit code in conflict markers to
simplify. Also simple search and replace is very usefull like if a
variable rename is merged, do a merge + do the rename over the conflict
markered code
if needed you can copy and paste a conflict block into the murge script
which will show it in a nicer colored form
then run the spitfire script as often as you want during the process
(no arguments required)
it will fix up license headers, and simplify all conflicts which have
after any renaming or editing become trivial. So doing a merge of a
rename initially might result in hundreads of conflicts and after
redoing the rename and spitfire you then possibly have only 10 or
so left to resolve by hand.
There are hundreads of other tools out there to resolve merge
conflicts, above is just what i used for 99% of my merges
ahh and sedf, which runs a sed command over the files specified after
it,
all very basic scripts really, no magic
ahh and to add fate samples, you need to be in the samples group
on the server you are one of the roots so that should be fine
and then to update fate samples drop em locally in your directory
and use a script like this:
rsync -vauL --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
ffmpeg.org:/home/samples/fate-suite/ ~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite
rsync -vauL --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
f...@fate.ffmpeg.org:/var/www/fateweb/fate-suite/ ~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite
echo dry runs next
rsync -vanL --no-g --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite/ f...@fate.ffmpeg.org:/var/www/fateweb/fate-suite
rsync -vanL --no-g --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite/ ffmpeg.org:/home/samples/fate-suite
echo NEXT will be upload check the 2 above!
rsync -vaL --no-g --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite/ f...@fate.ffmpeg.org:/var/www/fateweb/fate-suite
rsync -vaL --no-g --chmod=Dg+s,Duo+x,ug+rw,o+r,o-w,+X
~/fatesamples/fate/fate-suite/ ffmpeg.org:/home/samples/fate-suite
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
-- Albert Einstein
#!/bin/sh
grep -A9 '' | grep -B9 '' murge.X
grep -A '' murge.X | egrep -v '===|||\|\|\|\|\|\|\|'
murge.theirs
grep -B '' murge.X | egrep -v '===|||\|\|\|\|\|\|\|'
murge.ours
grep -B '' murge.X | grep -A '' | egrep -v
'===|||\|\|\|\|\|\|\|' murge.common
colordiff -du $* murge.ours murge.theirs
grep . murge.common /dev/null colordiff -du $* murge.common murge.theirs
grep . murge.common /dev/null colordiff -du $* murge.common murge.ours
rm murge.theirs murge.common murge.ours murge.X
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import os
import stat
import re
import subprocess;
def cleanhunk(out, ours, old, theirs, func):
global taken_ours, taken_theirs
if func :
ours = func(ours)
old = func(old)
if ours == theirs or theirs == old:
out.write(ours)
taken_ours += 1
return 1
elif ours == old :
out.write(theirs)
taken_theirs += 1
return 2
else :
return 0
def docosmetics( s ):
sys.stderr.write( before: \n + s + \n )
#we ommit * due to pointer definitions like (MpegEncContext *s
s = re.sub(([])0-9a-zA-Z]) ?( *)(=|\+=|-=|%=|/=|\+|-|||=|=|==|!=||/|%) ?( *)([(0-9a-zA-Z]), \\g1 \\g2\\g3\\g4 \\g5, s);
s = re.sub(([])0-9a-zA-Z]) ?( *)(=)\n, \\g1 \\g2\\g3\n, s);
s = re.sub(//([A-Za-z0-9]), // \\g1, s);
s = re.sub(\){, ) {, s);
s = re.sub((if|while|for)\(, \\g1 (, s);
s = re.sub(}else, } else, s);
s = re.sub(else{, else {, s);
#HACK repair #includes
s = re.sub((#include.*) / (.*), \\g1/\\g2, s);
s = re.sub((#include.*) / (.*), \\g1/\\g2, s);
#HACK repair a@b
s = re.sub( ([0-9a-zA-Z]*@), \\g1, s);
sys.stderr.write( after: \n + s + \n )
return s
def cleanfile( filename, fix_libav ):
global taken_ours, taken_theirs
taken_ours = taken_theirs = taken_conflict = taken_trick = 0
fffix = 0
state = 0
ours = theirs = old =
sys.stderr.write( filename + \n )
infile = open(filename)
outfile= open(spitfire.tmp, wb)
instring = infile.read()
infile.close()
if fix_libav:
m = re.subn(This file is part of Libav, This file is part of FFmpeg, instring)
fffix += m[1]
m = re.subn(Libav is free software; you can
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpegs future and resigning as leader
On 31 Jul, wm4 wrote : Thanks to everyone, for everything they did and will do in the future for FFmpeg and the community ! I didn't always agree with your way of maintaining FFmpeg, but the work you did was impressive. I also hope that this will eventually lead to FFmpeg and Libav being one project again. And I hope that this is not the end of you as FFmpeg contributor. I hate to agree with my archenemy, who is working for the competition (j/k), but a big +1 from me. Thanks a lot. -- Jean-Baptiste Kempf http://www.jbkempf.com/ - +33 672 704 734 Sent from my Electronic Device ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
