Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.04.19 um 01:12 schrieb Dennis Mungai:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 at 01:55, Reindl Harald  wrote:
> 
>> Am 14.04.19 um 00:39 schrieb CherylJosie via ffmpeg-user:
>>> bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
>>> attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
>>> has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
>>> beware you leave the room
>>>
>>> Perhaps the topic is not the problem but rather the forum.
>>> There must be at least one list devoted to FOSS politics?
>>
>> "FOSS politics"?
>>
>> who cares about politics?
>> tech and politics is an exclusive or
>>
>>
> Apparently, you do, Reindl.
> A salty troll that has been doing the rounds for baiting and flaming for
> years.
> Let's leave this here for future reference:

well, you can pick up a lot of links and referecnes without any context
which makes it not less bullshit when we talk about tch versus politics

the other side of that coin wassomething like this and it#s not about
2013, i tested stuff you shitheads would see in a few years xears ago
for more than a decade, risked my personal data, wasted thousands of
hours just to get updates for you shitheads as perfect as possible

https://kparal.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/the-heroes-of-fedora-updates-testing-in-q1-2013/

https://kparal.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/the-heroes-of-fedora-updates-testing-in-q2-2013/


> 1.
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/4FQXYY3K25GXHDLCMHWB7WAWVUY5LA3E/?sort=date
> 2.
> https://lists.fedorahosted.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FUANEKYBKA6YP35RYNMZHPMRPWNSAYLQ/
> 3. https://lists.gt.net/spamassassin/users/200177
> 4.
> http://linux-unix-open-source.1053819.n5.nabble.com/KDE-without-gnome-shell-td5789040.html#a5789721

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

I cite the following comments from Harald as prima facie evidence of my 
concerns.

bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
beware you leave the roomFOSS politics"?

who cares about politics?
tech and politics is an exclusive or 
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Dennis Mungai]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 at 01:55, Reindl Harald  wrote:

>
>
> Am 14.04.19 um 00:39 schrieb CherylJosie via ffmpeg-user:
> > bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
> > attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
> > has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
> > beware you leave the room
> >
> > Perhaps the topic is not the problem but rather the forum.
> > There must be at least one list devoted to FOSS politics?
>
> "FOSS politics"?
>
> who cares about politics?
> tech and politics is an exclusive or
>
>
Apparently, you do, Reindl.
A salty troll that has been doing the rounds for baiting and flaming for
years.
Let's leave this here for future reference:

1.
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/4FQXYY3K25GXHDLCMHWB7WAWVUY5LA3E/?sort=date
2.
https://lists.fedorahosted.org/archives/list/council-disc...@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FUANEKYBKA6YP35RYNMZHPMRPWNSAYLQ/
3. https://lists.gt.net/spamassassin/users/200177
4.
http://linux-unix-open-source.1053819.n5.nabble.com/KDE-without-gnome-shell-td5789040.html#a5789721
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Reindl Harald]

Am 14.04.19 um 00:39 schrieb CherylJosie via ffmpeg-user:
> bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
> attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
> has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
> beware you leave the room
> 
> Perhaps the topic is not the problem but rather the forum.
> There must be at least one list devoted to FOSS politics? 

"FOSS politics"?

who cares about politics?
tech and politics is an exclusive or
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[CherylJosie via ffmpeg-user]

From: Reindl Harald 
 To: ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org 
 Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 12:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour
   
Am 13.04.19 um 21:33 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
>> A public spat is not a FOSS existential crisis. 
> I can't agree. This sort of thing is normal behaviour for people involved in 
> FOSS projects. It comes from the top; do a Google image search for "torvalds 
> finger." People involved in open source development are unpleasant to each 
> other as a matter of course.

bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
beware you leave the room



Perhaps the topic is not the problem but rather the forum.

There must be at least one list devoted to FOSS politics? 
   
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] isn't this a moderated list?

[James Northrup]

James your response is an eye-opener, and bone-chilling.   "you should
simply stop helping users" is exactly the kind of thing SO is providing as
a service. an impartial clue-hammer and two strikes with a permanent burn
notice on all future technical conversations, stopping users in their
tracks and employing an army of volunteer thought police who level-up their
craft on maintaining a shared occam's internet.

I go to trac, and to this list in search of conversation, related
experiences, whatever might help production undertakings, help scope a
deployment, things not exactly related to a codec bug, and subject to
opinionated approaches.  then, before hell freezes over in the silence that
follows, I wind up googling for whatever's left over.

I think the only place I would expect to see a  "real-programmers" uucp era
text-mode rant is in fact an antiquated mail list like this one.  while I
downloaded my my first linux kernel distro over a kermit link I also use
native ubuntu on windows 10 from that evil empire that acquired github.

I'd rather see aggressive issue pruning and PR debates which will tend to
whittle down the redundancy of search results, over the immutable history
of pipermail archives each time someone asks the same question about RT*P.
when i go to a fancy oss repo site nowadays i start typing my problem in
the description and 9 times out of 10 find an answer in an issue that's
closed or ongoing, because i'm using a browser with javascript and ajax
updates suggesting map reduce inverted index results.

I'm sorry, as much as I hate the invasion of dunning-kruger enablements, I
think there's still a value in the larger scope to some of the trends.
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Reindl Harald]

Am 13.04.19 um 21:33 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user:
>> A public spat is not a FOSS existential crisis. 
> I can't agree. This sort of thing is normal behaviour for people involved in 
> FOSS projects. It comes from the top; do a Google image search for "torvalds 
> finger." People involved in open source development are unpleasant to each 
> other as a matter of course.

bullshit - they are just honest and direct instead the ass-licking and
attack subtle which is common in the shiny business world where nobody
has the eggs to say his hinest opinion straight to your face but god
beware you leave the room
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user]

> A public spat is not a FOSS existential crisis. 
I can't agree. This sort of thing is normal behaviour for people involved in 
FOSS projects. It comes from the top; do a Google image search for "torvalds 
finger." People involved in open source development are unpleasant to each 
other as a matter of course. There are organisations out there which exist 
almost solely in the world of FOSS development. I can't imagine what it must be 
like to work in a place where everyone appears to hate everyone and everything 
and there is no respect for anyone.
So it may not be an existential crisis, but it has long been severely 
curtailing the acceptance of FOSS in the wider world and it will continue to do 
so. FOSS people are utterly, utterly horrible, and that's widely known.
P
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[CherylJosie via ffmpeg-user]

>>this sort of bad behaviour."/

>If anyone has an idea, how to deal with that, please write.

>-Ulf

I’ll take a stab at it.
We cannot control the behavior of others. We can only control our own behavior.
We might all first look within for solutions that work for us as individuals 
rather than trying to impose our solutions on others through the list. Angry 
outbursts backfire.
Humility can solve this issue. Failing that, I’m sure list moderation will if 
it hasn’t already done so. A public spat is not a FOSS existential crisis. We 
are free to choose hope. Let’s do that.
If anyone is feeling angry, I’d say diagnose your anger and put out that fire 
before trying to extinguish it in others. (In my calmer moments anyway that’s 
how I think)
Remember that the objective here is sharing knowledge. That’s not what has been 
shared between Reindl and others on this particular matter. It’s off topic. I’m 
not sure anyone profits from an addictive group adrenaline binge, or from the 
cortisol that eats away at us all from the inside out long after the rush fades.
The spark only ignited all the gasoline fumes lingering in the air. It’s not 
the root cause of the flame war, it’s just the trigger. Removing the trigger is 
far less effective than venting the fumes. Then a spark without fumes is an 
amusing and harmless flash instead of a disaster.
We are all under stress. I’m sure Reindl’s frustration plus all those 
frustrated responses to him have their roots deep in the personal lives of 
those making posts. That’s where the solutions are too, deep inside. Look there.
Give yourself a break. Vent the fumes elsewhere and stay on topic. That’s the 
best way IMO. I know it’s difficult to control one’s anger in the face of 
provocation, but ego doesn’t write FOSS software. Anger is a distraction. Keep 
that in mind and this problem solves itself.
IMHO, offered in the spirit of the FOSS authors who brought me so many amazing 
benefits that I feel truly blessed by all your generosity.

On Saturday, April 13, 2019, 4:35 AM, Ulf Zibis  wrote:


Am 11.04.19 um 18:57 schrieb Nicolas George:
> Ulf Zibis (12019-04-11):
>> Even "staff members" in this project seem to do so, see posts in
> One "staff member", please. His behaviour is unacceptable and you are
> welcome to report him to the list administrator.
>
>> It is good to mention, then accept it and then take a big breathe!
> No, it is not good to accept it. Reindl Harald is being extremely rude,
> he does the exact opposite than he wants other people to do.
>
> Regards,

Hi,

I'm not sure, if you misunderstood me. I did not bear on Harald.
I don't know, if he is actively supporting FFmpeg or just using it. But
as I have no cause to communicate with him, I just watch, what happens
without participation.

I beard on one who is actively supporting FFmpeg, i.e. the 2nd most busy
committer to FFmpeg. I'm really interested in cooperation.

So I see me in the category of potential contributors, Phil has written
about:
/"This holds back open source software in all its forms. It serves to
put off new users who might become useful contributors in time. It
alienates people with useful expertise who are not software engineers.
The problems caused by all of this are highly visible in open source
software in general, and ffmpeg in particular.//
//I don't know what the solution is, but it must necessarily involve
everyone being nicer to each other, and not trying to jusify
unprofessional, discourteous behaviour.//
//I've been saying it for years and I'm going to keep saying it: FOSS
could do so much better than it does, almost solely because of exactly
this sort of bad behaviour."/

If anyone has an idea, how to deal with that, please write.

-Ulf

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Re: [FFmpeg-user] audio / video out of sync after recording rtmp stream

[Frans Gouverne]

okay, thanks, will try it out.

By the way, I also find this workaround myself: stripping off the first 4
seconds (corresponds to the keyframe interval) from the flv file using: -ss
00:00:04.000
As a result, the excessive audio frames are gone, have tested this with the
problematic record and it works as expected: audio and video are perfectly
in sync now!

Frans





Op za 13 apr. 2019 om 13:57 schreef Carl Eugen Hoyos :

> 2019-04-13 11:33 GMT+02:00, Frans Gouverne :
>
> > ffmpeg -y -i "rtmp:/domein/client/name live=1" -vcodec copy
> > -acodec copy -f ouput.flv
>
> Instead please use something like (untested):
> $ ffmpeg -f data -i rtmp://... -c copy -f data -map 0 out.flv
> if you cannot use mplayer -dumpstream or something equivalent.
>
> Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] audio / video out of sync after recording rtmp stream

[Carl Eugen Hoyos]

2019-04-13 11:33 GMT+02:00, Frans Gouverne :

> ffmpeg -y -i "rtmp:/domein/client/name live=1" -vcodec copy
> -acodec copy -f ouput.flv

Instead please use something like (untested):
$ ffmpeg -f data -i rtmp://... -c copy -f data -map 0 out.flv
if you cannot use mplayer -dumpstream or something equivalent.

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaviour

[Ulf Zibis]

Am 11.04.19 um 18:57 schrieb Nicolas George:
> Ulf Zibis (12019-04-11):
>> Even "staff members" in this project seem to do so, see posts in
> One "staff member", please. His behaviour is unacceptable and you are
> welcome to report him to the list administrator.
>
>> It is good to mention, then accept it and then take a big breathe!
> No, it is not good to accept it. Reindl Harald is being extremely rude,
> he does the exact opposite than he wants other people to do.
>
> Regards,

Hi,

I'm not sure, if you misunderstood me. I did not bear on Harald.
I don't know, if he is actively supporting FFmpeg or just using it. But
as I have no cause to communicate with him, I just watch, what happens
without participation.

I beard on one who is actively supporting FFmpeg, i.e. the 2nd most busy
committer to FFmpeg. I'm really interested in cooperation.

So I see me in the category of potential contributors, Phil has written
about:
/"This holds back open source software in all its forms. It serves to
put off new users who might become useful contributors in time. It
alienates people with useful expertise who are not software engineers.
The problems caused by all of this are highly visible in open source
software in general, and ffmpeg in particular.//
//I don't know what the solution is, but it must necessarily involve
everyone being nicer to each other, and not trying to jusify
unprofessional, discourteous behaviour.//
//I've been saying it for years and I'm going to keep saying it: FOSS
could do so much better than it does, almost solely because of exactly
this sort of bad behaviour."/

If anyone has an idea, how to deal with that, please write.

-Ulf

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[FFmpeg-user] audio / video out of sync after recording rtmp stream

[Frans Gouverne]

Hi,

Have some troubles with syncing audio with video after record a live RTMP
stream:

ffmpeg -y -i "rtmp:/domein/client/name live=1" -vcodec copy -acodec copy -f
ouput.flv

When looking at the first frames of ouput.flv using ffprobe, it starts with
about 30 audio frames. Then, after e.g. half a second, the first video
frame do show up. This is expected because I suppose ffmpeg has to wait for
the first key frame of the video.

So the record has approx. 30 audio frames for about half a second, after
this the video and audio frames do show up repeatedly.

Now when I convert the flv file to mp4 and run the mp4 file in a player,
players like Windows Media Player do play the video half a second later
compared to the audio, so audio is completely out of sync. (VLC player does
play it right by the way).

I could correct it with a video editor (shifting the audio track with half
a second), then it plays correctly in both Windows Media Player as well as
VLC player. But of course I would like to have a correct version right away.

*Questions*:
Is there any way I can tell ffmpeg to start recording the audio channel
only after the first video keyframe is received?

Or can ffmpeg add time stamps explicitly (starting with 00:00:00.000) to
both audio and video frames channels when starting recording the RTMP
stream?

Or, after the fact, is there a way to remove the first set of audio frames
(from the flv or mp4 file) before the first video frame shows up without
converting the complete file again?

Have attached the log file of ffprobe, the first video frame shows up at
line 457.

Any hints are much appreciated,
best regards,
Frans (Netherlands)


logflv.log
Description: Binary data
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaving badly

[Carl Eugen Hoyos]

2019-04-13 3:36 GMT+02:00, Andrew Grathwohl :
> Just FYI, this is not the only list that has felt uneasy by
> Mr. Harald's behavior.[0]

Could you please stop this?

Deface somebody's name is just as unhelpful as pointing
fingers!

Please everybody stop this, Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] List members behaving badly

[Carl Eugen Hoyos]

2019-04-12 5:48 GMT+02:00, Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user :

> I offer the following in the hope that it can be viewed as
> constructive criticism.

Coming from you (and knowing your posts for more than a
decade) that would have been more than just a surprise.

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] isn't this a moderated list?

[James Darnley]

On 2019-04-13 07:03, James Northrup wrote:
> the hosting of mailing list, trac, faq, docs, nightlies and repo all feels 
> like micro management that has great results during the period of intense 
> development and activity but liable to age faster than the median open source 
> without active involvement.
> 
> I see more and more projects willfully refer GitHub issues/questions to SO 
> site(s) which has harsh topic requirements and behavioral  controls.  In the 
> past being scatter-brained and terse has opened my eyes to “good conduct” 
> there.  
> 
> I would feel comfortable with that outcome for ffmpeg/vlc/mplayer etc. in 
> general  going under that umbrella.  The enhcancement of search engine 
> results will be an immediate benefit for sure.

Many people have suggested that FFmpeg moves to Github.  That is a bad
idea.  It is proprietary software.  It requires a web browser.  It
requires registration.  It requires javascript.  It encourages worse
development practices with it's pull requests.

Moving support questions to Stack Overflow sounds even worse.  I'm sure
it is all of the above.  They lock "opinion" questions.  All sorts of
outdated answers get left around to be seen by Google.

I am confident this is about the "unsubscribe" thread and Reindl's
behavior in it.  Unfortunately that is the natural consequence of
dealing with users and user support.  You get burned out on their
stupidity and inability to follow instructions or even read.

If you're reading this, Reindl, you should simply stop helping users.

That is why I don't post to this list often and it is why I am no longer
in #ffmpeg.




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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] How can I stream to a Mac Mini USB output?

[Carl Eugen Hoyos]

2019-04-13 8:16 GMT+02:00, Fred Rotbart :
> Hi,
>
> I have a MiniDSP U-DIO8
>  connected
> to the USB port of a 2018 Mac Mini running Kodi 18.1-RC1 on Mojave
> 10.14.4. The U-DIO8 provides 8 output channels as 4xSPDIF connections
> and similarly 8 channels of input as 4xSPDIF connections.
>
> I can capture audio input from the input channels but I do not know how
> I can stream ffmpeg output to the U-DIO8 output channels.
>
> If I list devices this is what I get:
>
> ~#ffmpeg -f avfoundation -list_devices true -i ""
> ffmpeg version 4.0 Copyright (c) 2000-2018 the FFmpeg developers

This is old and unsupported.

>built with clang version 4.0.1 (tags/RELEASE_401/final)
>configuration: --prefix=/Users/fred/anaconda
> --cc=x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0-clang --disable-doc --enable-shared
> --enable-static --enable-zlib --enable-pic --enable-gpl
> --enable-version3 --disable-nonfree --enable-hardcoded-tables
> --enable-avresample --enable-libfreetype --disable-openssl
> --disable-gnutls --enable-libvpx --enable-pthreads --enable-libopus
> --enable-postproc --disable-libx264
>libavutil  56. 14.100 / 56. 14.100
>libavcodec 58. 18.100 / 58. 18.100
>libavformat58. 12.100 / 58. 12.100
>libavdevice58.  3.100 / 58.  3.100
>libavfilter 7. 16.100 /  7. 16.100
>libavresample   4.  0.  0 /  4.  0.  0
>libswscale  5.  1.100 /  5.  1.100
>libswresample   3.  1.100 /  3.  1.100
>libpostproc55.  1.100 / 55.  1.100
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] AVFoundation video devices:
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [0] FaceTime HD Camera
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [1] Capture screen 0
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] AVFoundation audio devices:
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [0] USBStreamer
> [AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [1] Built-in Microphone
>
> The USBStreamer is the U-DIO8 device.
>
> What do I need to add to the ffmpeg command line to cause ffmpeg to
> output to USBStreamer?

FFmpeg's avfoundation device is an (input) demuxer only.
Is Apple's avfoundation also supposed to be an output
api?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-user] isn't this a moderated list?

[Carl Eugen Hoyos]

Fortunately not.

Carl Eugen
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[FFmpeg-user] How can I stream to a Mac Mini USB output?

[Fred Rotbart]

Hi,

I have a MiniDSP U-DIO8 
 connected 
to the USB port of a 2018 Mac Mini running Kodi 18.1-RC1 on Mojave 
10.14.4. The U-DIO8 provides 8 output channels as 4xSPDIF connections 
and similarly 8 channels of input as 4xSPDIF connections.


I can capture audio input from the input channels but I do not know how 
I can stream ffmpeg output to the U-DIO8 output channels.


If I list devices this is what I get:

~#ffmpeg -f avfoundation -list_devices true -i ""
ffmpeg version 4.0 Copyright (c) 2000-2018 the FFmpeg developers
  built with clang version 4.0.1 (tags/RELEASE_401/final)
  configuration: --prefix=/Users/fred/anaconda 
--cc=x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0-clang --disable-doc --enable-shared 
--enable-static --enable-zlib --enable-pic --enable-gpl 
--enable-version3 --disable-nonfree --enable-hardcoded-tables 
--enable-avresample --enable-libfreetype --disable-openssl 
--disable-gnutls --enable-libvpx --enable-pthreads --enable-libopus 
--enable-postproc --disable-libx264

  libavutil  56. 14.100 / 56. 14.100
  libavcodec 58. 18.100 / 58. 18.100
  libavformat    58. 12.100 / 58. 12.100
  libavdevice    58.  3.100 / 58.  3.100
  libavfilter 7. 16.100 /  7. 16.100
  libavresample   4.  0.  0 /  4.  0.  0
  libswscale  5.  1.100 /  5.  1.100
  libswresample   3.  1.100 /  3.  1.100
  libpostproc    55.  1.100 / 55.  1.100
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] AVFoundation video devices:
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [0] FaceTime HD Camera
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [1] Capture screen 0
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] AVFoundation audio devices:
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [0] USBStreamer
[AVFoundation input device @ 0x7f8ee6c00540] [1] Built-in Microphone

The USBStreamer is the U-DIO8 device.

What do I need to add to the ffmpeg command line to cause ffmpeg to 
output to USBStreamer?


Thanks,
- Fred
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