Berry,
I checked the rabbit image in PhotoPaint - I see a blue rabbit sitting on a
blue rock, and the numbers agree - the RGB values on average show G as being
10 over R, and B (blue) being 20 over G and *30* over R.
When I adjust the colors for a fairly equal RGB on the rock (presumably a
There is a big difference between halftoning and dithering. Most of the
printers we use, inkjet, home laser printers, etc, use dithering.
Halftoning involves having each ink color screened into dots and then
each of these dots is further matrixed to create different color
density. So the
Georges Seurat was the painter.
-Original Message-
From: Mike Kersenbrock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 11:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: filmscanners: dither vs haltoning (was File sizes, file
formats, etc. for printing 8.5 x 11and 13 x 17...
Thanks, Arthur, for a clear exposition, as usual.
So the answer to Marvin's question 1 part 2 is...
"Use the resolution you got from the scanner, and let the
printer driver do the work."
This is what I've always done myself with my 2700ppi
scanner. I can't tell the difference in a print from
In a message dated 2/26/2001 6:38:05 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In fact, I'd consider getting a different inexpensive
flat bed scanner just to be able to use Vuescan for it. Is there one that
you recommend?
The Epson 1240 and 1640 are spoken very highly of by people
who own them.
Dithering is pretty old too. Was used by a painter with particularly
famous painting (I have it on a coffee mug) "Sunday in the Park" or some
such name. Artist's name doesn't come to mind either (just the image of
the painting). But in any case, he used colored dots to produce other
no, it has gone like a charm. still not sure, what it does.
At 11:19 27/02/2001 -0500, you wrote:
Has anyone had any errors when installing this? I got a "ComponentMoveData"
error #-115.
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow
in Australia".
"Austin Franklin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Both my Epson printers (3000 and 1160) have a 'halftone' setting, as well
as
my QMS laser printer...so both of them certainly believe they are
'halftoning'.
Does anyone actually use the "halftone" settings on their Epson?
Rob
Thanks Maris, that reference was exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to
find.
I knew that I needed to twist and bend the curves, but had no idea how to
do it methodically, and sometimes just gave up in disgust..
Some of the examples are very similar to problem images I have abandoned in
the
Roger,
Without resampling QP and PS are pretty close, I think QP still does a
better job though. It is too bad that QP does not work with Mac as I'm sure
those that have a Mac would really like the program.
Dale
Hi Dale,
Thanks for the tip, but I'm using a Mac G4. As it happens, I
The Epson Photo EX offers the following Halftoning options:
No Halftoning ( For black text only)
Error Diffusion (For photographic images. Blends each dot of color with
the surrounding dots.)
Fine Dithering (For charts, graphs, and other images that require
precise, solid areas of
"Halftoning" really has nothing to do with digital imaging ...
I completely disagree. Halftone is a process, and is implementation
independent.
...
I only separate "halftoning" and "dithering" chronologically
(traditionally), as in "halftone" is the original analog
In a message dated 02/28/2001 3:52:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When I think I'll rework an image, I realise I may have
become fussier by then, so I usually save the raw image data
file from my scanner as well, on CD. I'll then be able to
rework it in about a
... that dot
from your printer can only be one of at test a dozen colors. In most
cases ... the printer can only place on dot of
each color in it's cartridges on any one spot. So, a CMYK printer, can,
for instance, place a C, CM, CY, CK, CMY, CMK, M, MY, MK, MYK, Y, YK or
CMYK dot down in
There is a big difference between halftoning and dithering. Most of the
printers we use, inkjet, home laser printers, etc, use dithering.
Halftoning involves having each ink color screened into dots and then
each of these dots is further matrixed to create different color
density.
Not
That's no longer state of the art. My monitor (21" Cornerstone p1700) looks
best when running at 116 dpi (1856X1392). It won't be too far into the
future (within ten years) before we'll have flat panels on our desks or in
our laps that run at 300 dpi.
Frank Paris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You're speaking of "La Grande Jatte" by Georges Pierre Seurat. It's in the
museum of art in Chicago It's been so long ago that I forget the name of
this famous museum, but it has one of the greatest collections of
Impressionist art in the world. I may forget the name of the museum, but
I'll never
Austin wrote:
I've designed digital imaging systems for 20 years,
and amongst the equipment I designed was for Imagitex, and was a digital
halftone pre-press system. The term has always been halftoning in my
book...and I am curious how the
term 'dithering' came to 'seemingly' replace it.
Frank,
Try The Chicago Art Museum or Chicago Museum of Art. :-)
The artwork you speak of is truly amazing as are most of Seurat's other
works. This same painting, I believe, was also utilized as the backdrop and
the basis for a play on Seurat.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And Seurat's technique was know as "pointillism" and the full name of
the painting: "Un Dimanche d't l'le de la Grande Jatte", an
inspiration much later for Stephen Sondheim's Broadway musical,
"Sunday in the Park with George." The museum is The Art Institute
of Chicago, one of our great
Is "CPU" a word or is it an abbreviation? Only kidding and not meant for
further protracted discussion.
I am not going to take sides on the "halftone" vs. "dithering" controversy;
but I will say that the back and forth over the question was informative
whatever position one takes in that it
Mike K wrote:
Dithering is pretty old too.
Yes, it is, compared to US (not necessarily me :-)), but contemporaries of
Rembrandt were developing "mezotint" several generations before.
And almost nobody knows that it was in response to the camera, and the
then-new science of optics and color,
Soho wrote:
Seurat used tiny dots of pure color
No, of raw (unmixed) pigment. It's a niggling difference, of course, but no
color is "pure" (not even light, because our eyes can't see the "end-bands"
at either side of the spectrum).
Your point is well made, though. "What we see is what we
... and I would still argue that stoichastic or random dithering is
NOT an implimentation of halftoning ... that is, this implimentation
of dithering does not vary the dot size, rather the number and
placement of dots.
That is where we disagree. I believe that it is the effect that is
As far as I know there is absolutely nothing you can do to colour manage
web graphics.
Certainly there is no evidence that web browsers take any notice of
embedded colour spaces, and if they did there's no point in doing so as
user monitors are going to be about .001% calibrated and the rest
"dithering" It's a mathmatical approach to giving a
digital image more of the "modeling" that was available in an analog image
on a cathode ray tube, i.e. television.
I have always called that, what you reference to television, aliasing. What
do you believe is the difference?
And I hope
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (shAf) wrote:
Julie writes ...
Does everyone here embed sRGB colour spaces into web
graphics? I wasn't sure if this was the best thing to do
I assume it would help standardise how the
images are displayed on different machines. ...
You might want to consider
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Berry Ives) wrote:
on 1/30/01 2:00 AM, Sumtingwong at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Some great shots!
Spencer Stone
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Cooke, Julie
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:54 AM
Oh No, Dicky,s still warbling !!!
from soothsayers apprentice.
Michael Wilkinson. 106 Holyhead Road,Ketley, Telford.Shropshire TF 15 DJ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.infocus-photography.co.uk
For Trannies and Negs from Digital Files
- Original Message -
From: "Dicky" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
Austin writes ...
There is a big difference between halftoning
and dithering. Most of the printers we use,
inkjet, home laser printers, etc, use dithering.
...
Not necessarily. You are describing an implementation,
not a process. I still contend, and what sources
I have checked,
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: filmscanners: File sizes, file formats, etc.
for printing 8.5 x 11and 13...
If you save in JPEG once, re-open to work on it once, and
then save it as a
TIFF, how
My 'O' My...I am learning from you experienced scanners and printers, in
short order, more than I could have learned with "Many Moons" of blind
tinkering.
The principle that I work under in all that I do is to look at every
situation through a telescope before I start looking at it with a
That web browsers take no notice of embedded color spaces is correct.
However, one can color-manage graphics for web pages - many or most graphics
applications (and the Mac monitor in its default state) are set to 1.8
gamma. The main reason for this, it seems to me, is so that WYSIWYG between
I've been in the digital imaging industry for a while, so I don't read what
anyone else writes on the subject...
H. 'Nuff said, guys. Really! 'Nuff said.
---
FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
Reserve your name now at
And Seurat's technique was know as "pointillism" and the full name of the
painting: "Un Dimanche d'été à l'Île de la Grande Jatte", an inspiration
much later for Stephen Sondheim's Broadway musical, "Sunday in the Park with
George."
That's really a stretch, but a lovely one. Thank you, Sarah.
Doesn't look like this went through 6 hours ago, when it was more apropops.
If it did and I'm resending it, please forgive.
Austin wrote:
I've designed digital imaging systems for 20 years,
and amongst the equipment I designed was for Imagitex, and was a digital
halftone pre-press system.
And Seurat's technique was know as "pointillism" and the full name of the
painting: "Un Dimanche d'été à l'Île de la Grande Jatte", an inspiration
much later for Stephen Sondheim's Broadway musical, "Sunday in the Park with
George."
That's really a stretch, but a lovely one. Thank you, Sarah.
I think the results of erroneously translating colour spaces are far worse
than those of simply leaving the colours as originally defined.
I can certainly attest to that. I'm still *very much* in the dark (pun not
intended, although it works) about the "Color Spaces" that one program
imposes
I've been in the digital imaging industry for a while, so I
don't read what
anyone else writes on the subject...
H. 'Nuff said, guys. Really! 'Nuff said.
What I meant by what I said is I don't read books that explain the process,
since I already understand the process. If you already
Lynn writes ...
I think the results of erroneously translating colour
spaces are far worse than those of simply leaving
the colours as originally defined.
"originally defined" as what? Your own monitor space?
... I'm still *very much* in the dark (pun not
intended, although it
Doesn't look like this went through 6 hours ago, when it was more
apropops.
If it did and I'm resending it, please forgive.
I received it, and thought it was an excellent post, though I did not
entirely agree with the later part of it...probably no surprise ;-)
I asked a number of people I
Right! The Art Institute! Sheesh! How could I forget that? Well, moved out
of Chicago in 1974, and most of those brain cells are obvious gone after all
these years! I lived in Chicago for nine years, starting with my
undergraduate work at the University of Chicago. I'd go there at least once
a
Austin Franklin wrote:
... that dot
from your printer can only be one of at test a dozen colors. In most
cases ... the printer can only place on dot of
each color in it's cartridges on any one spot. So, a CMYK printer, can,
for instance, place a C, CM, CY, CK, CMY, CMK, M, MY, MK, MYK,
OK, I was writing for those of us who haven't won the lottery ;-)
What video card with, how much memory, do you need to run on for that
monitor at "true color" (24 bit)?
Art
Frank Paris wrote:
That's no longer state of the art. My monitor (21" Cornerstone p1700) looks
best when running at
Austin Franklin wrote:
I do find
it fascinating that some people have adopted a, in my book, 'new' term for
'this'. Kind of like changing the word CPU...
I'm unfamiliar with the "word" CPU... It isn't in my dictionary either.
There is a C.P.U., an acronym for a central processing unit,
Frank wrote:
You're speaking of "La Grande Jatte" by Georges Pierre Seurat. It's
in the museum of art in Chicago It's been so long ago that I forget
the name of this famous museum, but it has one of the greatest
collections of Impressionist art in the world.
It's the Chicago Art Institute.
Laurie Solomon wrote:
Frank,
Try The Chicago Art Museum or Chicago Museum of Art. :-)
The artwork you speak of is truly amazing as are most of Seurat's other
works. This same painting, I believe, was also utilized as the backdrop and
the basis for a play on Seurat.
I too have seen
Austin Franklin wrote:
There is a big difference between halftoning and dithering. Most of the
printers we use, inkjet, home laser printers, etc, use dithering.
Halftoning involves having each ink color screened into dots and then
each of these dots is further matrixed to create
Barbara wrote:
The Epson Photo EX offers the following Halftoning options:
No Halftoning ( For black text only)
Error Diffusion (For photographic images.
Fine Dithering
I think this is the source of the argument (maybe I'm stating the obvious
here); Epson or other printer dithering or
Well this is really OT but much as I love the Art Institute, I would
be loathe to say it has the best impressionist works. The D'Orsay
has all the work from the old Jeu des paumes and Europe is so rich in
this painting. We're lucky in the States to have such wonderful
exemplars here but
ROFL!
Frank Paris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62684
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Arthur Entlich
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: filmscanners: dither
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Arthur Entlich
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: filmscanners: File sizes, file formats, etc. for printing
8.5 x 11and 13 x 17...
Some top end high res
Well, I didn't exactly win the lottery, but I did fall into a a tidy sum
when my previous employer laid me off when I already had two other jobs in
my pocket! Nice severance! Anyhow, that monitor isn't all that expensive
anymore. They just lowered the price to about $950. That's pretty amazing
... that dot
from your printer can only be one of at test a dozen colors. In most
cases ... the printer can only place on dot of
each color in it's cartridges on any one spot. So, a CMYK
printer, can,
for instance, place a C, CM, CY, CK, CMY, CMK, M, MY, MK, MYK, Y, YK or
CMYK dot
I find technical jargon, especially
in this kind of mixed audience does more to alienate that to further
enlighten. It is also a form of elitism, that really rubs me the
wrong way.
Well, in this case, it isn't about 'jargon' or 'semantics' it is about, in
my opinion, two completely
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Austin Franklin
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: filmscanners: dither vs haltoning (was File sizes, file
formats, etc. for printing 8.5 x 11and 13 x 17...
It has been removed :-(
Any other site from where to download the update ?
From another list:
Ok, guys, calm down. This was a alpha version of the patch
intended for use
within Adobe only. It has now been withdrawn from the ftp site.
Check the Adobe PS forum for details. The Adobe
anyone here use digimarc's photoshop plugin to embed a digital watermark in
your images before displaying them on the web?
well, as if you do you may be aware that digimarc suddenly decided to charge
everyone for watermarking 100+ images (an anual fee) last year, now they are
forcing everyone to
Frank asks ...
As I mentioned, it is a
common mis-statement to say that your monitor has a resolution of
1280x1024, when that is not a resolution.
Then, pray tell, what is it? ...
"Resolution" should have units of distance. If Austin had stated
his 12" by 9" monitor had a resolution
Well, it's better than what Microsoft calls it, isn't it? Screen area? How
the heck does that relate to anything?
Frank Paris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62684
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Austin
Perhaps you will think I'm biased, based on my email address, but I think
"screen area" describes it quite well.
Digital images are measured in pixels and the "screen area" setting tells
the user how many pixels the area of the screen will display. What is wrong
with that?
When you change the
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