Re: [Finale] Music Theory/Duke Ellington
On Feb 11, 2005, at 10:23 AM, John Howell wrote: (And the Pink Panther theme remains the single most widely-heard example of parallel 5ths since the 9th century!) More than Smoke on the Water? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
On Feb 14, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Dear Hiro, Newport is abandoned and only works in classic. I have replaced the falls and doits in all active files with articulations from the Jazz font. The Jazz Font shapes are a little too heavy for my taste, but they are the best I can do at the moment. I found those JazzFont scoops, falls, doits, etc., too heavy as well, so I reduced the point size of some of them to 20 or 22, from 24. That helped a whole bunch. I also didn't like the shape of the jazz grupetto (turn), so I substituted the tilde ~ character from Apple Chancery 28 bold, which matches everything quite well and looks better to my eye. I wish I could do the same for some other characters. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] JW plugins for Mac yet?
The code is on Jari's site. Not all of it, but he will give the rest to anyone who requests it. Some of us were kicking around the idea of pooling some money to pay someone knowledgeable to port it over, but it's a losing proposition for several reasons. First of all, it will need maintenance. How will we keep paying for that? A hundred bucks or so spread out among the members every time a new version of Finale comes out? What happens if the supporters don't upgrade right away? Would it be fair to to ask for more money if the person isn't going to use the result? Secondly, part of Jari's agreement to release the code is that other people won't charge for it. So even if someone like Robert Patterson or Tobias Geisen does it, they won't be able to distribute it even for the tiny licence fee they normally charge for their plugins, and they get saddled with all the administration duties with no remuneration in sight. It's going to be hard to convince someone to do it, I think. Unless MakeMusic takes it over? Christopher On Tuesday, February 15, 2005, at 09:03 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: I remember Jari mentioning that he intended to release the source code, but I don't recall him ever actually announcing that the source code was released. However, I miss his plugins as well, and I hope that right after he releases the code somebody knowledgeable will pick it up and adapt it. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com FinaleIRC (come chat!): http://finaleirc.com On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 02:53:29 +, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me too!! Johannes Andrew Levin wrote: Just curious, Has anyone taken the original Mac JW plugin source code and made them OS X native? I sure do miss them. Thanks. Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
On the recommendation of various listers, I got Firefox (Mac OSX) and installed it (if you can call that an installation, as I just dragged the app over from the disk image). It seems to work surprisingly similarly to Safari, except it doesn't choke on certain web pages. It is quite zippy, and so far seems to be great. I like when it blocks a popup and lets me know. (Hey, boss, see what a good job I'm doing for you?) Very cute. One funny thing I noticed right away, though. When I click a link to open a new window with the new page, if the new page hasn't finished loading yet and I try to scroll in the new window with the scroll wheel, it is the ORIGINAL window, behind it, that scrolls, instead of the one that I am looking at. This means that when I close the new window, I am not in the same place in the window I left. If I let the new window finish loading, then I can scroll normally. Yet, I can hit Page Down in the new window at any time after the scroll bars appear to page down normally; it is only the scroll wheel that acts funny. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music stand and stand light recommendations
On Feb 19, 2005, at 6:19 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hey gang, Okay, my 18-piece band is going to start gigging soon and I'm going to need to invest in some stands and stand lights for us. I'm looking for recommendations. The stands must be lightweight and collapsable -- not necessarily wire stands, but I have to be able to fit 20 of them in a luggable wheel cart. The lights must be small, battery-powered, and actually help readability. Above all, everything needs to be inexpensive, since I have to buy for the whole band, and modern big band gigs aren't exactly a hugely profitable enterprise. I saw this at Muscian's Friend -- $30 per light/stand combo (which is pretty much the upper limit of what I could afford): http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/ 452026/ I don't know if that's a battery-powered light, though. Any advice would be much appreciated. Are you sure you want to go with battery-powered lights? That's a big expense in batteries right off the bat. If you're not using halogen or fluorescent lights (which can cause noise in sound systems if they are plugged into the same circuit) I would recommend AC-powered lights with incandescent bulbs. They are low-powered enough that you probably won't need a heavy-duty extension/power distributor. As for stands, the saxes and trombones (playing seated, I imagine) could possibly use the low-profile folding cardboard stands (also available in corrugated plastic and melamine). There are probably a whole bunch of those for sale second-hand by big bands that aren't gigging any more. You can paint them if they are scuffed up. They also have the advantage of not covering up your musicians as much when they are playing on a raised stage. As for the Musician's Friend stands, the palette that holds the music up looks a little skinny to me. Once your book gets a few charts in it, the parts will start sliding off if the shelf isn't wide enough. Have you looked into rentals? Around here it's $5 per stand to rent them from a lighting company, which only gets more expensive after your sixth gig, plus THEY pay for bulbs and maintenance. Hope this actually helps, rather than frustrating or confusing you. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music stand and stand light recommendations
That looks like the corrugated plastic one I mentioned! Good catch! At less than 3 pounds each, you could take a bunch of these on the subway no problem. Christopher On Feb 20, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Jim and Pat Sodke wrote: I've known a few band to use the polystand from: http://www.embeeideas.com/ just about any music store deals with Humes Berg - they make a very similar product. Jime Sodke ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Respacing Music
Jacki, You'll have to respace it before updating layout. The easiest way to respace is Mass Edit tool, Select All (cmd-A) then hit the number 4 over the E and R keys, which is the MetaTool for Note Spacing. You may have to unlock the systems if they are locked, so that the respacing actually has someplace to send the squooshed bars if it has to. Christopher On Monday, February 21, 2005, at 02:37 PM, Jacki Barineau wrote: Hi, Everyone - I have a song that I've changed the time signature a few times and had it rebar - which it did. However, now several of my lyrics are squooshed together and even though I've chosen Update Layout and made sure it says for lyrics not to collide or anything, it's not reflowing for some reason. How do you get Finale to respace everything to not collide when you add things like this? Thanks! Jacki :) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Christo's The Gates, NYC Central Park
On Tuesday, February 22, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I think the Martians would probably be impressed, actually. (By the gates, not by the schools.) I wished I was in New York to be able to see it. When Christo did the Reichstag in Berlin I missed it, and everyone who was there said it was amazing. The photographer Spencer Tunick staged a shoot in Montreal a few years ago. His specialty at the time was shooting hordes of naked people. I would have participated if I had been available, and I followed the story with fascination. 2000 volunteers showed up at 6:00 am on a chilly Sunday to pose, draped across the steps of Place des Arts. His photographs are at once chilling, warming, shocking, gorgeous, barely erotic (if at all) and anything but ignorable. I was amazed at my own reactions to his various works, all of which have the people's faces not looking toward the camera, so we are not as aware of their individuality or personalities. Yet the texture of so much naked human flesh in an otherwise deserted urban setting got me to thinking in so many different ways, I still can't get over it. Some people saw the Holocaust, some saw a huge, happy orgy, some saw Armageddon, some saw the Garden of Eden, some saw a nuclear aftermath, some saw pornography, and some just saw texture divorced from the human materials. I wish I could see the Christo installation. There's something about a large canvas that's striking to me. Big painting, big sculpture, big orchestra, all of it. My wife tells me it's a guy thing. 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Christo's The Gates, NYC Central Park
Hmm, not around here. Generally girls still in high school and younger are mademoiselle, along with any woman you are hitting on, otherwise they are all madame. But your point stands. Christopher On Feb 22, 2005, at 7:59 PM, HERMAN GERSTEN wrote: I was just being polite, Christopher. That's all. Don't the French use mademoiselle the same way? On Feb 22, 2005, at 3:34 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Umm, just wondering, but what makes you think Crystal is young? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Christo's The Gates, NYC Central Park
On Feb 22, 2005, at 11:24 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I see no one in this discussion making any attempt whatsoever to dissuade you or Crystal or anyone else from their personal esthetic reactions to art -- all the disputation has been entirely on non- esthetic issues. And some of the non-esthetic issues are extremely interesting! For example, the fact that the artist manages to pay for the ENTIRE humongous work himself fascinates me. What a fantastic example for other artists! And the nature of the installation itself - quite a bit more subtle than huge photos of naked crowds, can't ignore it very easily just the same, huge reactions from everyone either hating it or loving it, discussions about the nature of art and what this particular work means... Hold on a minute, I just realised something. Christo - Crystal, it's all a little too convenient, isn't it? She(he) comes innocently into our little list, seeding discussions and increasing the publicity of the work they must be the same person! Has anyone ever seen them both in the same room at the same time? OK, Christo or Crystal or whatever you want to call yourself, we're on to you! 8-)=) (enormous toothy grin) Christopher (Wait a minute Christo/Christopher, has anyone ever seen ME in the same room with him? I could be him, too! Or for that matter, I could even be Crystal. Man, is my wife going to be upset.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] new and improved text tool
On Feb 23, 2005, at 1:41 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: GENERAL * Text can be assigned to an individual note or measure (as with the old Expression Tool) or to a page or range of pages (as with the old Text Tool). * Once assigned, default positioning of the individual Text can be altered or overridden, by double-clicking the text's handle in the score, clicking override, and redefining the positioning (this does not affect the original). I am wondering how this would work out in a score. There is already the issue that crops up when trying to assign note-attached versus measure-attached text expressions - if you enter the wrong type you have to delete the expression and start over. On the other hand, if you are working ONLY with one type for the moment, it is fast and easy. I would hate to add mouse-clicks to the process. Is this clear enough? Did you have an idea about how the interface would work in this case? Otherwise it looks very clean and presentable (with capitals and everything! We're so proud!) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] beaming
For time signature, choose 2 as the number of beats (not 6) and dotted quarter as the denominator value. This will cause eighths to be beams to the time signature. 6/8 is really 2/dotted quarter after all. When you make the change, choose Rebeam music for the beams to change, otherwise only the NEWLY entered music will be affected. Christopher On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Clarissa Cox wrote: I'm transcribing a song that transitions from 4/4 time to 6/8 time. For some reason, the eighth notes aren't being beamed together (into 2 sets of 3) like they normally are in 6/8 time. Anyone know of a quick fix? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 24, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Ken Moore wrote: I would like to be able to reuse text blocks on more than one page in different places (IIRC WinFin3.5 would do this). In WinFin 2004, the best I can do is copy their contents. Also, in this version it is not possible (or maybe I have just not discovered how) to select multiple text block handles and move them all together, as it is with expressions and some other objects. I can't help you with the first, but to select and move more than one text block at a time, shift-click their handles, or drag around the handles to select several at once. You can then drag or nudge them at will, and restore default positioning by hitting the back arrow above the Enter key (Clear for Mac). If you don't mind creating the text block in the expression tool instead of the Text Tool, you can reuse them as much as you like (including entering them with a Metatool), but measure or note attached only, not page attached, as I assume you need. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 10:47 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: kurt, johannes (and others), From: Kurt Gnos I would NOT mingle the two tools since they have an entirely other functionality. However, I'd like some of the things you mention, but in the Text Tool where I might use them. actually they don't, both tools at present control different instances of very similar items: what difference is there between a multi-word text block and a multi-word text expression (in the current state of the tools)? The difference for me is I don't necessarily want to see every text block in the dialogue box list, especially if they show up in the displayed font size. Why would I want to see my titles, copyright, composer, stage instructions, dialogue cues, etc., every time I want to add a mute marking? I don't usually need to duplicate those, though I agree the possibility should be there in the Text tool. The way things are divided now, as restrictive as it is, is actually an organisational advantage. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Given the new capabilities of text expressions (multi-line, control of automatic placement), why would any one use a measure-attached text block, rather than a measure-attached expression? Justification. Can't do it in the new text expressions. Measure-attached text blocks *do* overlap in behavior with text expressions, but in recent versions of Finale, text expressions have been enhanced to the point that I no longer see any use for measure- attached text blocks. Almost true, but not quite. In addition to the justification issue, one rarely re-uses text blocks, whereas we often reuse text expressions, as some have pointed out. Having blocks of dialogue cues show up in the text expression list would be a huge pain, so it is logical (now) to enter them as measure-attached text blocks, for one example. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Clearing Staff Styles
Revelation! I often need to clear a staff style for a measure or two, and have done it for a number of years now by selecting Clear Staff Styles from the Staff menu. I just now discovered that I can do the same thing with one key, Clear on the Mac (I imagine it's the backspace above Enter for PCers), or fn 6 on my laptop. Ye gods! I can't believe I didn't know this for so long! I had better sit down with the manual again. First scrolling pages wtih command-pg down, then this. Wow. Mucho time saver. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
Linda, I have a CD (it's the example set of CD's from Samuel Adler's book The Study of Orchestration that has index numbers in addition to track numbers. This means that Track 1 has five or so examples, each with their own index number, so Track 1.1, 1.2, etc. He manages to squeeze many individual examples onto each CD this way, and it is old; one of the first generations of CDs, so I know it's part of the standard from way back. Not all CD players can get to the individual index numbers, so all you can do is start playing Track 1 and wait for the other index numbers to play before you get to 1.5, but it's probably better than endlessly punching next track every time the CD is played. You can group short examples in the same category together, hopefully starting with one they are likely to start with, and save their trigger fingers for the mouse button! I'm not sure how to do this, as I have never used this feature of the spec myself, but this info might get you on the right track. Christopher On Feb 25, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Linda Worsley wrote: Listers, I know that there are many tekkie geniuses on this list and maybe one of you with knowledge of the various generations of CD players can answer this one: I'm preparing a set of CDs for an educational project (always a mind-blower, in terms of what people ask for). It's a listening project with really good music for kids to learn, but they require an assessment CD with about a gazillion snips of the tunes for kids to identify. Long story short, The way they wanted it, there were 128 tracks. That's impossible, of course, but I got it down to 96 by talking them out of having a voiceover read the answers to each quiz (I figure even a BAD teacher can read letters and numbers, in a pinch). Also, even at that, the CD is now 79 minutes long, which of course most CD players will accommodate these days. I'm just afraid that some of the schools may be using ancient CD players, some of which will PLAY these CDs, but stop at around 74 minutes. Others may not be able to punch in track numbers above nine or ten (I had one like that back in the day.) Does anyone have a good idea how we might word a warning: Like, If you are using a CD player that was made before 19, you may not be able to access the tracks automatically, and your player may not play the final few minutes of CD2. Please use a newer CD player, and make certain in advance that you can access all of the material. Or somesuch. I don't have to word the final version. What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need? (Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on disability for repetitive stress syndrome.) Ah... music educators... ya gotta love 'em. Any suggestions welcome, and thanks, Linda Worsley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players
On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever actually tried to use that feature! When you say won't work, do you mean that not all the cues will be audible? Or that (as I had mentioned) that CD players without index fucntions will see just fifteen or so large tracks instead of fifteen tracks divided into smaller index numbers? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 05:04 PM 2/25/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, since at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be able to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_. I know you pretty much dismissed what I was suggesting, but if you look at the image I created, you'll see that your requested functionality is there. In fact, by changing the droplist entry, you could change it from measure to page, or page to measure, and create a relative (to parent) or absolute (to page) position. (Or duplicate it and change the parameters of the new item.) (You also were worried about merging items creating long lists. No need to do that with the label-based approach, either.) Here's that image again: http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif Dennis PS: Anyone think this approach is worth discussing more? Even if Finale doesn't implement anything like it? My main worry with that sort of thing (and even with jef's basic idea to merge the tools) is that to get a type of expression that is different in function requires more mouse clicks. As it stands now, the type and position of the mouse click determines the type of text expression (note- or measure-attached) while in the Text tool double-clicking and dragging automatically puts constraints on the size of the text box, which are things we need to set in both those cases. I have a similar kind of issue with TG Tools Smart Part extraction. Although it is amazingly powerful, flexible, intelligent and I know it pretty well now, sometimes it is quicker and less fussy to use Finale's built-in explosion tool. Although I appreciate the need for power and flexibility, I wouldn't want it at the expense of easy (meaning fewer keystrokes) implementation of the things I do much more often. Can you see a way to do that? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 26, 2005, at 12:49 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I've made changes to the toolbar mockup at http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif to reduce Playback and Duplicate buttons to icons, add Click and item number next to Attached to, add a justification droplist, and add a snap-to-grid checkbox. (For text boxes I would change the vertical/horizontal boxes to show their coordinates of text boxes.) In your tool bar mockup, where are the create and delete buttons for text expressions? These are such useful buttons in the present interface that I would hate to lose them. Also for the Page attachment, are we able to select page ranges, and discontiguous ranges at that? Once again, there is some excellent functionality in the present system. Or have I completely misunderstood again, and you are suggesting this toolbar IN ADDITION to the present dialogue box? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tips site update! AND a Simple Entry query
On Feb 26, 2005, at 1:05 AM, Don Hart wrote: Jari, Thanks for keeping up this website and for adding helpful things like the new interviews. I read through most of Tyler Turner's interview (I didn't realize the escape key did that!) and I thought I'd put out a general question about Simple Entry to the list: How many reading this have been converted from *midi* speedy note entry to the new and improved simple note entry by Finale's recent push in that direction? While I am still a hard-core Speedy person, I am forced to use Simple on my laptop when I am away from my desktop computer (MIDI-less Speedy without a numeric keypad is rather clumsy, IMHO) and I am suitably impressed with it. I know Linda Worsley, among others, is a complete Simple Enterer, though she was long before the overhaul, and many of my students who lack MIDI keyboards use this too. Perhaps rather than converting people, it makes Finale easier and more attractive to people who might never use MIDI Speedy entry. One thing I have noticed is that percussion maps seem to behave differently in Simple than in Speedy, for some reason. I haven't worked out exactly what it is, but I get unexpected results with automatic X heads at times. When I have time to muddle through it and figure out the behaviour, I will report in. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool
On Feb 26, 2005, at 11:46 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: there will be user-definable default settings for the Text, including not only font and size, but also leading and all other text attributes (why this is not already the case escapes me...) and for the three manners of attaching it. contextual behaviour: - dblclick on note = note-attached; dblclick on measure = measure-attached; dblclick on page = page-attached. - option-dblclick on note/measure/page = brings up the Text List and automatically creates a new text (based on the default) with positioning assignment already selected according to the place the user clicked (note, measure, page); the user can immediately begin to type the new Text in the edit box. (dblclicking the handle of a Text already assigned in the score behaves same as current behaviour, edit box is immediately called up) - option-dblclick-drag = new Text with resizable frame (for note-, measure- and page-attached Texts! YAY!) which can be edited on page (as previously with text tool); once defined, dblclick the handle to edit on page, option-dblclick to edit in Text List. - option-shift-dblclick-drag = assigns existing Text with resizable frame, Text List is called up, user selects, hits enter, and is returned to the resizable Text box with the selected Text inserted. jef That looks very good. I like the idea of being able to control parameters like that WITHOUT extra keystrokes, just changing where one clicks. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OS X: Underline shortcuts in menus?
On Feb 26, 2005, at 3:44 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Meanwhile, OSX comes with a little helper. Just hit Ctrl+Shift+F2 (if nothing happens, hit Ctrl+Shift+F1 first then the feature is enabled). See you can navigate menus with arrow keys then hit [ENTER]. I don't like mousing and I got used to this way. May be this is the reason I don't use iKey much so I don't need to get frustrated with it :-) Oo, isn't this cute! I learn so much new here! Thanks Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda
On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Feb 2005 at 16:38, Christopher Smith wrote: I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go backwards won't work. I don't understand why Ctrl-= wouldn't give you the backward tie., and why a CODA would be different from a 2nd ending. I just checked a file with a 2nd ending that has a tie to the previous measure, as well as a tie to the next note, and it works just fine using Ctrl-=. I don't know why it should be different, either, but it doesn't work in Mac (opt = is the keystroke) unless it is the first note on beat 1 of the first measure of a second ending. Apparently there is some flag or other that is set for second endings, but I don't know why it has to be set. Bug report! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda
On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 26 Feb 2005, at 4:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Feb 2005 at 16:38, Christopher Smith wrote: I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go backwards won't work. I don't understand why Ctrl-= wouldn't give you the backward tie., and why a CODA would be different from a 2nd ending. Well, it is, and there's no good reason for it. For reasons known only to Coda, backwards ties only work on 2nd endings. Chris, you will have to fake it with a manually tweaked slur or other such kludge. - Darcy That's what I was afraid of. Actually, while I was waiting (five whole minutes, what took you guys so long?8-) ) I tried this: I took the 2nd tied note of the coda and added a forwards tie to it, going nowhere. I reversed that tie with Special Tool, to go backwards to the first note. I then reversed the tie on the first note to go backwards. Good thing this whole note wasn't tied over 12 measures! I would have had a lot of ties to mess around with! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?
On Feb 26, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: At 15:22 26.02.2005, you wrote: When I import a midi file into Finale, the drums won't appear. Finale is creating a drums staff, but it remains empty. I tried this out using several midi files. The pity is the main reason ARE the drums - I am arranging some funk stuff and hoped I could take the drums out of a midi file and transcribe the rest myself. I isolated the drum part - still an empty space in Finale (2005b, also 2004). I changed the channel of all events - still empty (why?) I tried other midi files including a drum part - won't work. I searched Coda's site for help - nothing to be found Why can Finale import no drum parts? Kurt I didn't answer because I've never run across this. Finale imports all of my drum parts perfectly (well, normally, anyhow!) You can even specify a percussion map like General Midi Input so that the low C2 for bass drum shows up correctly on the first space, etc. I'm afraid this might be a question for tech support. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OSX Lyric Slowdown!!!
On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Brian Williams wrote: Dear List, I have been working on a Finale 2004 transcription project in MacOS 10.2.4 that simply involves a vocal staff with lyrics and 2 staves of piano. I have found that the only way I can get any usable speed is to enter all the notes in the vocal first and then go back and enter all the lyrics. If I try to edit the vocal staff after *ANY* lyrics have been entered, my 800MHz PowerBook G4 acts like my old 25Mhz Mac IIcx did during a major mass-mover operation in Finale 3.0 -- in other words, it's slower than molasses! Finale 2003 in OS 9.2.2 is *WAAAYY* faster than this! What's up? Brian You are right, this is a huge slowdown in FinMac 2004 when lyrics are involved. The slowness of this version caused me to abandon that version altogether, reverting to 2003 under OS9 and switching to OSX only when 2005 came out. This can help. Make sure you have the latest update of 2004. Under Program OptionsViewUpdate Smart Hyphens and Word Extensions, click Manually. Then everything looks wonky (no hyphens at all, word extensions all over the place) until you manually update them, which you can do just before printing from the Edit Menu. Turning off Automatic Update Layout helps, too, as well as Automatic Music Spacing and Human Playback. Turning off the Message bar reportedly helps, too, though I don't do that. The general slowness is much improved in FinMac 2005, but I still have the smart word extensions turned off, as well as Human Playback. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing
On Feb 27, 2005, at 11:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings! I'm new to the list (though not to Finale) and have a question about swing playback. I scanned music, converted it to MusicXML format using SharpEye, then imported it into Finale 2005 for editing. The music contains standard triplets, dotted 8th/16th combinations, and pairs of regular eighth notes. I ultimately want to save the Finale score as a MIDI file that will play back as follows: --standard triplets: as written --dotted 8th/16th combinations: as swing eighths (2:1) instead of as written (3:1) --regular eighths: as swing eighths (2:1) instead of as written (1:1) I have much experience using the playback swing settings to play notated regular eighths as swing eighths, which carries over fine when files are saved as MIDI. However, I'm not experienced with altering the playback of the dotted 8th/16th combinations without having to change the notation. I have fiddled with the Human Playback features that would seem to be relevant, but they do not change that playback rhythm from the notated 3:1 to the desired 2:1. Alternatively, if playback techniques will not work, would appreciate your advice on whether you can change a rhythmic figure (dotted 8th/16th) globally when the pitches are not the same throughout. Thanks very much. Kathryn Schneider, J.D. Musical Director, City Bar Chorus New York City e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing swing rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or editor is adhering to a fifty-year-old convention, jazz rhythms are written most clearly these days as ordinary eighths. When notated that way, Finale can put any amount of swing you want on the eighths, just in the Playback window controls, while playing back triplets as written. I'm not sure how it deals with dotted-eighth/sixteenths in that situation, but I assume that it is not acceptable to you. I would not imagine that it plays them back as triplets. I am far from being a fan of Human Playback, but this seems like it might work (not tested by me.) First of all, try applying Human Playback in the Playback window. Use the jazz setting. If this is no good (I suspect it only applies to eighths, not your dotted-eight/sixteenths) try this: In Mass Edit, select all. Under Plugins>New for 2005, select Apply Human Playback. Click Apply Specific Elements. Click More Settings: Select. I think what you are looking for is Adjust 8th and Dotted 16th/Triplet. This does not seem to be correctly named, but no matter. If the default doesn't do what you want, try messing around with these settings. You will probably get a message at some point telling you to set Human Playback to none. Go ahead and click OK. Hope this helps. Also read the manual - Chapter 39: Playback under Swing Playback. If this doesn't work, you can export a MIDI file from Finale, import it into a full-fledged sequencing program, apply one of the logical edits (depends on the program how it is implemented) to only shift 4th sixteenths a sixteenth earlier. Re-import the file into Finale, where all those dotted-eight/sixteenths will now be even eighths, and apply Swing from the playback window. All should be well, except that the playback file will look hopeless. No matter, it is only for playback! By the way, you didn't ask, but the swing feel might be more realistic at a tempo faster than medium slow if you ask for a SMALLER percentage swing than even the light swing setting gives you. You can experiment with different values in the Playback control window. Pure triplets tends to sound real hokey except at the slowest tempos. Christopher___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?
Kurt, Give it a try. I'll check them out, and report back. Christopher On Feb 27, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: Christopher, thanks for the answer. I could send you some midi files that won't work for me - maybe they will work for you? Kurt At 12:34 27.02.2005, you wrote: On Feb 26, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: At 15:22 26.02.2005, you wrote: When I import a midi file into Finale, the drums won't appear. Finale is creating a drums staff, but it remains empty. I tried this out using several midi files. The pity is the main reason ARE the drums - I am arranging some funk stuff and hoped I could take the drums out of a midi file and transcribe the rest myself. I isolated the drum part - still an empty space in Finale (2005b, also 2004). I changed the channel of all events - still empty (why?) I tried other midi files including a drum part - won't work. I searched Coda's site for help - nothing to be found Why can Finale import no drum parts? Kurt I didn't answer because I've never run across this. Finale imports all of my drum parts perfectly (well, normally, anyhow!) You can even specify a percussion map like General Midi Input so that the low C2 for bass drum shows up correctly on the first space, etc. I'm afraid this might be a question for tech support. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing
In a message dated 02/28/2005 12:42:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing swing rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or editor is adhering to a fifty-year-old convention, jazz rhythms are written most clearly these days as ordinary eighths. When notated that way, Finale can put any amount of swing you want on the eighths, just in the Playback window controls, while playing back triplets as written. I'm not sure how it deals with dotted-eighth/sixteenths in that situation, but I assume that it is not acceptable to you. I would not imagine that it plays them back as triplets. I am far from being a fan of Human Playback, but this seems like it might work (not tested by me.) First of all, try applying Human Playback in the Playback window. Use the jazz setting. If this is no good (I suspect it only applies to eighths, not your dotted-eight/sixteenths) try this: In Mass Edit, select all. Under PluginsNew for 2005, select Apply Human Playback. Click Apply Specific Elements. Click More Settings: Select. I think what you are looking for is Adjust 8th and Dotted 16th/Triplet. This does not seem to be correctly named, but no matter. If the default doesn't do what you want, try messing around with these settings. You will probably get a message at some point telling you to set Human Playback to none. Go ahead and click OK. Hope this helps. Also read the manual - Chapter 39: Playback under Swing Playback. If this doesn't work, you can export a MIDI file from Finale, import it into a full-fledged sequencing program, apply one of the logical edits (depends on the program how it is implemented) to only shift 4th sixteenths a sixteenth earlier. Re-import the file into Finale, where all those dotted-eight/sixteenths will now be even eighths, and apply Swing from the playback window. All should be well, except that the playback file will look hopeless. No matter, it is only for playback! By the way, you didn't ask, but the swing feel might be more realistic at a tempo faster than medium slow if you ask for a SMALLER percentage swing than even the light swing setting gives you. You can experiment with different values in the Playback control window. Pure triplets tends to sound real hokey except at the slowest tempos. Thanks, Christopher. I have already tried the Adjust dotted 8th/16th option, but it seems the dotted 8th/16th figures continue to play back in a 3:1 rather than 2:1 ratio. As I initially posted, I am familiar with the swing playback feature, which of course works fine when the notation is in eighths rather than dotted 8th/16th format. I always choose Light swing in playback mode. Is there an easy way to choose an even lighter form (other than through the MIDI tool)? Yes, light is as swingy as I ever want it to be, too! In the Playback window, when you choose light, there is a number that appears afterwards (75 on my Mac version). You can edit this number to be even smaller to make the swing even more even. I don't have a sequencing program, so it appears I may be stuck manually converting those dotted 8th/16th figures into even eighths. I know that in Finale NoteMover mode you can do search and replace for certain pitches with certain rhythms. Is it possible to do a global search and replace in Finale 2005 for certain rhythmic figures (i.e., dotted 8th/16th) when those figures have different pitches throughout the piece? Kathy There very well may be a search and replace function somewhere in the plugins, but I am not familiar with those that I don't use. Maybe under Note, Beam and Rest EditingRhythmic Subdivisions? It looks likely. Try tech support as well. They are very responsive (if a bit slow at times.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Mail problem, was Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing
On Feb 28, 2005, at 8:41 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: In a message dated 02/28/2005 12:42:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing swing rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or One more thing I forgot to mention, unrelated to your problem. In Mail in Mac OSX, I can't reply to your message! The reply window refuses to come up through command-r or the Reply item in the mene, and I ended up copying your text, address and subject into a new message. It's only YOUR message; other messages reply fine. The behaviour is identical even after restarting Mail, and after rebooting my Mac. However, after restarting Mail, I see all the attempts I made to reply, but without quoted text. Weird, or what? Anybody else out there with Mail can confirm? This only applies to your most recent message, not the first one. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT-Non-responsive MIDI keys
On Feb 28, 2005, at 10:11 AM, Henry Howey wrote: A couple of keys on my EDIROL PCR-31 keyboard are not making a circuit. Is there a spray or other means to (I assume) de-oxidize the contacts for a better response? -- I don't know what kind of key contacts are on the Edirol, but there are two basic kinds: metal leaf switches and rubber domes. If yours has metal leaf switches, then a spray contact cleaner (available at any electronics store) may work. You would have to open it up to expose the contacts, which may be quite a job. If you have rubber dome switches, the spray will not only not do any good, but will accelerate the decay of the rubber and might make a whole section inoperable. It's possible that the problem is electronic, rather than mechanical. There is a pattern to how the keys are laid out in the circuit board, and if a number of keys stopped working at the same time (even ones that are not adjacent) then perhaps a diode somewhere went south on you, or there is a broken solder joint. I'm handy with a solder gun and volt-ohm-milliammeter, but this one would be beyond me. Experts only at this point. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Layers vs. Voices
On Feb 28, 2005, at 3:59 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: But I guess there are many things in Finale that can be done differently - from entering notes (not just with different tools, also in different ways) until formatting and printout. There are also people who like lyrics mass edit, which I cannot understand since I like typing into score much better. The thing I don't like about typing lyrics into score is that the cursor doesn't move intelligently to the next note, instead it moves to the second of two tied notes, to rests, etc. With opt-click assignment (Mac, PC is alt-click) the lyrics all jump over the tied notes and rests intelligently to attach to the next real note. I also tend to mess up the order of the lyrics with TYpe Into Score. Bleah. If I was more organised, I might like it better. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Mail problem
On Feb 28, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 28 Feb 2005, at 8:50 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: Anybody else out there with Mail can confirm? This only applies to your most recent message, not the first one. This has been a problem for me with a number of people using AOL mail. I can only reply to their messages if they haven't quoted anybody. If their message contains a quote, then the reply button doesn't work. This is a very strange glitch -- not sure what's causes it -- but so far I've only run into it when replying to people with AOL addresses. - Darcy Thanks Darcy! Your response prompted me to embark on a search, and I found this answer on the Apple discussions: Allan Sampson1 Level 4 inline: webx.gif Joined: May, 2003 Posts: 7268 San Antonio, Texas This is a problem when replying to or forwarding a message recieved from an AOL user with a Windows AOL Optimized version. With the message open and before replying to or forwarding the message, at the menu bar go to View > Message and select Plain Text Alternative. This should resolve the problem. Me again. Wacky! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?
On Mar 1, 2005, at 3:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kurt, There are a couple of things going on with your midi files. Kurt, Karen is the all-knowing, all-seeing queen of MIDI files. She nailed exactly what was going on, and then some. There is nothing I can add to what she said, except to genuflect in her direction, mouth agape in wonder. You can also choose to set up percussion staves here (including a percussion map...which Christopher Smith is a whiz at doing so maybe you can pick his brain for this. :-) Aww, shucks again! Actually, I am no whiz, I just waded through the documentation with a pith helmet and a machete. Seriously, all you have to remember is to check the Use these notes button, and the rest is messing around until it works. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?
On Mar 1, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: Hi Christopher, At 16:44 01.03.2005, you wrote: Karen is the all-knowing, all-seeing queen of MIDI files. She nailed exactly what was going on, and then some. There is nothing I can add to what she said, except to genuflect in her direction, mouth agape in wonder. Yeah, I guess you're right (*genuflect*)...;-) To which I add another (*genuflect*) Aww, shucks again! Actually, I am no whiz, I just waded through the documentation with a pith helmet and a machete. Seriously, all you have to remember is to check the Use these notes button, and the rest is messing around until it works. The general midi drums setting works quite fine for me. I only had to define an other note head for the open hihat, the rest worked right away... Glad to hear it! See, everyone, there ISN'T such a big deal to it! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004
On Mar 1, 2005, at 12:39 PM, d. collins wrote: If MakeMusic would consider giving us backwards compatibility (at least one version), no one would one have to run that kind of risk. But, after reading the interviews on Jari's site, I realize the chances of seeing this are more than slim. Too bad. Finale is one of the very rare programs to change its format every year and to offer no backwards compatibility. A real nuisance, in my opinion. This seems to be a marketing strategy to prompt users to upgrade. I'm convinced it backfires in many cases, especially for those working with people who used localized versions. I'm convinced it has nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do with the format actually NEEDING to change as they add new features, plus a lack of programming funding since the user base is so small. Nothing Machiavellian going on here, I'm sure. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda
On Feb 27, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Greetings collected wisdom. I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go backwards won't work. Create a unison in a second layer, tie both notes and kludge one of them. Thanks, Andrew, that seems to be the easiest solution. I just heard back from Gary in MacSupport; and that was the solution he suggests as well. I answered back that perhaps opt = on the Mac should create a backwards tie on ANY note, whether or not it starts a second ending. This would be a Martha Stewart-like Good Thing, IMHO. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FYI
On Mar 1, 2005, at 5:51 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: the shape designer can hold at least 11488 shapes... in case you wanted to know. i didn't particularly want to know, but just got a new score to work on, containing hundreds upon hundreds of copies of the same metatool-assigned articulations and shape expressions. HOLY METATOOL, BATMAN! That has to be a new record! chuckle I would send that one on to MacSupport, just for a laugh. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another Finale shortcut (OS X)
On Mar 2, 2005, at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Smith wrote: This baffles me also. The 3 selection check boxes you get on 'copy and filter' put smart shapes and score expressions into the same category, therefore NOT allowing any real filtering. This destroys the whole idea of having a filter in the first place if you ask me - as you can't. BTW, if you hold down opt and shift while in the edit menu you get to do the filter to a clip file, but this still doesn't give you the result of filtering out any score expression but leaving in the smart shapes. You are absolutely right. Another thing that I find confusing is the reference to the smart shapes (attached to measures) which is in the first check box and then the smart shapes (attached to notes) which is in the third check box, which you actually get into and can make selections from. What's the difference here? I can explain this. Note-attached Smart Shapes are usually slurs, glisses, trills, etc, which are similar to articulations or note-attached text expressions for me. Measure-attached Smart Shapes are hairpins, which is what one usually wants to copy along with measure-attached text expressions, however not brackets, pedal markings, 8va signs, which are the other measure-attached Smart Shapes. Perhaps there should be a separate option to copy hairpins rather than all measure-attached Smart Shapes. I reckon Make Music has made an error in this menu item, because if you highlight a measure with Mass Mover and go to Mass Edit menu to select 'Copy Measure Items' you get to select all the different items from the lists under both Measure Items and Entry Items - something I use a lot when copying music across staves within the same file (in fact I would love this selection to be enabled and 'saved' as a preference...and yes, I've requested it to MM many times!)). I believe that this should happen under the filter menu choice but doesn't - probably a bug. Another annoyance, one which I have written up to MM, contains a similar fault when you use metatool 2 (explode music) with Mass Mover. You'll get staff expressions and slurs that go across to the 'expolded parts but not any hairpins - strange, but a bug also I think? This is one of the reasons TG Tools takes the place of the Finale built-in functions. If I would have this kind of fussiness to deal with afterwards, I use TG Tools instead, which saves me mucho time. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] inconsistency with margins while printing
On Mar 2, 2005, at 2:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone---I'm printing a big band score using landscape format, 8 measures to a page. I found that the score prints the first 9 pages with about a 3 or 4 inch margin on the right side of the page, which means the 8 measures are slightly crowded. The last 8 pages of the score prints with about a half inch margin on the right side and looks absolutely perfect. Why the discrepancy? Thanks in advanceBrian___ It's normal for the first system of a score to have a larger indent to accommodate the complete instrument names. I can't speculate as to why the first 9 are like this (maybe you used an old score as a template that only had 9 pages, all set like this?), but it is easy to change. There are two possibilities: that the page margins are different for the first 9 pages, or that the system margins are different. You can tell at a glance which one you have to change, because the page margins show up as dotted lines, too as soon as you select the Page Layout Tool. If the left-hand Page Margin line is 3 or 4 inches over too far, then that is the problem. If the left-hand system handle is over too far, then the System Margins is the problem. This is to change the System Margins: Page Layout tool>Page Layout Menu>Systems>Edit Margins. Go to the system that looks right to you, as you will be copying its settings. Click somewhere inside the dotted-line box around the system. Let's say that it is System 10 (on page 10, in your score.) In the box that opened up when you first selected Edit Margins, it says Values for System 10. These are the values that you are going to apply. Change System> enter 1 through 9. If you want to leave the first system indented, enter 2 through 9. Click Apply. All should be well now. If you find you need to change just ONE system (like the first one) you can just drag the upper-left-hand handle to the right or left to change the indent. Use my method to change more than one, to be consistent. This is to change the Page Margins: Actually, I don't need to go completely through it, because it is the same dialogue box as the System Margins. Just select first: Page Layout tool>Page Layout Menu>Systems>Edit Page margins and everything else is the same. Oh, yes, afterwards Update Layout while on Page 1, just to be sure! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] JW Divider for OSX
My mother thanks you, my father thanks you, my clients thank you, and me, well, that goes without saying... No it doesn't. THANK YOU! We love you, and if you ever need your car washed, baby sitting, a hot meal, a beer, you know where to go. Christopher On Mar 2, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Yay THANK YOU, TOBIAS. (JW Space Systems is coming too, right? Please???) - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 02 Mar 2005, at 3:12 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: Hello! Tobias has just ported JW Divider to OSX (Finale 2004-2005 for Mac). http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/ According to Tobias, the small arrow controls don't fully work, so don't report that. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes
On Mar 2, 2005, at 4:58 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Yes, under MacOS, the window position is supposed to be written to pref file every time an app closes. Why Finale doesn't do that, is beyond me :-( I had a hard time with the new coloured buttons in OSX when I first started. I couldn't figure out what they were supposed to do, as they all behaved differently in different applications. Darcy told me that the green button was supposed to maximise the window to the borders of the window contents, but that is not true with the two apps I use most often: Appleworks and Finale. Appleworks always makes the window the size of an 8-1/2 X 11 page, no matter what the contents are or what magnification they are at, and Finale always mazimises to the size of the desktop, no matter what the contents of the window are. Safari seems to depend on what site I am on. No wonder I had trouble at first! Chirstopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison
On Mar 2, 2005, at 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings all, mailing list newbie here. Glad to have found this. The latest version of Finale I am familiar with is 2002, having refused to upgrade beyond that until they fixed some of the basic notational problems in Finale that always seemed to get overlooked -- the eternal problems with tuplet placement, Tuplets are greatly improved with 2005. Still a couple of small issues with the number placement, especially with large intervals under the tuplet, but tuplets that start with a rest or a low note align WAY better than before. hairpins, What did you see wrong with the hairpins? They behave perfectly well as far as I can see. I use TG Tools plugins to help align everything, so maybe I'm spoiled. Automatic expression placement is new and fantastic as well. disappearing measures, I've never seen that. What is that? I have occasionally seen measures APPEAR to vanish, but that is usually because I had a multi-measure rest where I later entered notes, and forgot to turn off the rest. etc -- in favor of composer's assistant nonsense. As someone who looks at these programs largely as notational tools, I got frustrated. In any case, I stuck it out with 2002 until recently, when I was finally convinced by friends to try Sibelius. I've been working with version 3.1.3 for about 2 months. Certainly things are superior in Sibelius when it comes to the user interface and certain formatting issues (at least in comparison to Finale 2002). But at the end of the day I am most concerned about what comes out of my printer, and Sibelius doesn't even begin to approach the professional look that I can get (after much hair-pulling) out of Finale. And I am frustrated again, because the response in the Sibelius forums is constantly no, you can't do that (yet). Anyway: I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on where things stand with Finale 2005 as regards the many problems I am familiar with in F2002, and I'm wondering what the NEW frustrations might be with 2005 (again, as regards notation -- I do not use these programs' composing tools or sound-file generating tools.) At this point I'd considering upgrading if I thought that 2005 was honestly better than 2002. You sound like a fairly serious user. Many of the issues with Finale's built-in functionality are addressed with 3rd-party plugins, some of which will no doubt make you clap your hands and giggle like a child when you first use them (that was my reaction, in any case). They are definitely worth the shareware price, and the time it will take to learn them, though you can try them out first for free. This list is a great resource as well. Many times when I have been frustrated by some seeming lack of functionality, someone on this list has just the trick to make it doable. If you have specific questions, we can answer them. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] New Real Book font
It was Finale for all the Real Books after Vol 1. The font was a custom font by the copyist, and they are guarding it jealously (I asked!) If you compare the Vol 1 to say Vol 2, the quality of the hand copying in Vol 1 is quite astonishing, IMHO. I don't think I have ever seen anything quite like it in a jazz idiom. Compact, well-spaced, an excellent eye for compromises in a very dense page that is nevertheless clearly laid out - it set a new standard, just in time to be supplanted by computer copying. 8-( Christopher On Mar 2, 2005, at 9:27 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Roger, The first New Real Book was hand-copied. Subsequent editions (Vol. 2, Vol. 3, the Standards Real Book, etc.) were done with some kind of music notation software, possibly Finale. However, their fonts were developed in-house, and they are proprietary to Sher Music Co. They are not available to the general public. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 02 Mar 2005, at 8:52 PM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote: Hi, Does anyone know which is the font used in the New Real Books? Thanks, Roger ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison
On Mar 2, 2005, at 10:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 2 Mar 2005 at 20:18, Christopher Smith wrote: disappearing measures, I've never seen that. What is that? I have occasionally seen measures APPEAR to vanish, but that is usually because I had a multi-measure rest where I later entered notes, and forgot to turn off the rest. Well, that does strike me as the kind of problem that no intelligent application should allow to happen. Notes in measures should automatically break multi-measure rests, without the user being required to do anything. I'm not sure I want ANOTHER automatic sweep through a subroutine slowing down the performance of the program, like Auto Update Layout, Auto Update Hyphens and Smart Word Extensions and the like. Especially given how often this problem (if it is one) would show up. I've only seen it myself a couple of times, and I am a heavy user who revises works constantly. I also think that staff optimization should not be something that you have to remove and then re-apply. If you insert new measures, or insert data in previously empty measures (or you clear/hide previously populated measures), if you've got optimization turned on, it should automatically cause the system to re-optimize. I Re-optimize to what parameters? There's a whole window of options there for that process. I don't want to be asked every time, and I don't want Finale choosing the parameters for me. I would rather do it myself. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] JW Divider for OSX
Hmm, it shows up fine for me, in all window sizes in Safari. When I make the window very narrow, it moves off the right border, but I have a scroll bar that appears so I can get to it. Apparently Firefox (which operates very similarly to Safari) handles web pages that Safari has problems with. I am presently experimenting with it and am suitably impressed. Christopher PS, Jari and Tobias, the plugin works as flawlessly as ever! Thanks! On Mar 3, 2005, at 5:55 AM, Hans Swinnen wrote: Hello Jari, First of all, a big thank you to both. One little problem however: the new added column Finale 2004-2005 for Mac doesn't show up in Safari. I searched desperately for a link on that page. Till I got the idea switching to IE (which I almost never use) and all went fine. Is this fixable? Hans Jari Williamsson wrote: Hello! Tobias has just ported JW Divider to OSX (Finale 2004-2005 for Mac). http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/ According to Tobias, the small arrow controls don't fully work, so don't report that. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes
On Mar 2, 2005, at 9:01 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chris, Presumably the Zoom button in AppleWorks doesn't zoom to an 8.5x11 page if you have a different page size selected for the active document? If not, that's a bug. With Safari, the zoom button takes you to the minimum width specified by the web page, and the minimum height needed to display the site's entire contents (or full-screen height if, as with most websites, you need to scroll down to read it all). If you click it again, it will normally toggle back to wherever it was before you hit the zoom button. If any portion of the window has been dragged off-screen, the zoom button will also reposition the window so that it fits entirely on the screen. You can test all of this on a web page that has a relatively narrow width and short height, like, for instance, the home page of: http://davedouglas.com/ There's a good example of my confusion. The window goes to the minimum width, good. However, the height is about half of my screen, with a scroll bar appearing on the right, even though I am able to manually resize the window so that the entire contents appear WITHOUT a scroll bar. This does not appear to be the minimum height to display the page's contents? I don't find this confusing at all. Moreover, the behavior in OS X is for the most part extremely similar to the way the zoom button in Mac OS has always worked. The widget *looks* different now (green circle instead of a square inside a box) but the behavior is virtually identical. It's certainly identical behavior in Finale -- the zoom button works exactly the same in OS X as it did in OS 9 and earlier. Yes, in Finale. Just not in AppleWorks, nor in a couple of other apps used often by me. I guess I was assuming that it would always work identically. You'll notice that if you click the Zoom button in Mail, it always maximizes the window. That's because modern plain-text emails don't have a fixed width -- they wrap to the user's window width. Finale's behavior is similar -- it always maximizes when you click the Zoom button, because in scroll view, there's no fixed width, and Finale's programmers didn't want the Zoom button to behave differently depending on whether you are in scroll view or page view. I'm fine with that, because all of my Finale windows are maximized all of the time. What *is* broken is that Finale doesn't follow OS X conventions for remembering window placement, and for stacking (not cascading) new windows when the current (or default) window is maximized. Quite apart from the fact that Finale ignores OS X conventions here, it's an incredible pain in the ass when you open up a set of 18 parts and have to maximize 17 of them. I agree. There isn't a keyboard command for Maximise, is there? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes
On Mar 3, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chris, There's a good example of my confusion. The window goes to the minimum width, good. However, the height is about half of my screen, with a scroll bar appearing on the right, even though I am able to manually resize the window so that the entire contents appear WITHOUT a scroll bar. This does not appear to be the minimum height to display the page's contents? What version of Safari/OS X are you using? What's your window position and size before you click the Zoom button? I don't get the behavior you describe. For me, clicking the zoom button on this page causes the window to resize so that no scroll bars are visible. Starting from a window larger than the page, clicking the green button makes the page smaller than the content. Starting from a window manually resized to be smaller than the content makes the zoom behave as expected. I am using the latest updates of both OS and Safari. I don't find this confusing at all. Moreover, the behavior in OS X is for the most part extremely similar to the way the zoom button in Mac OS has always worked. The widget *looks* different now (green circle instead of a square inside a box) but the behavior is virtually identical. It's certainly identical behavior in Finale -- the zoom button works exactly the same in OS X as it did in OS 9 and earlier. Yes, in Finale. And in the Finder, and in MS Word, and in iTunes, and in most instances I can think of... I guess I just don't find myself maximising windows in those situations. Probably because once I set the windows to a size I like, the app remembers them for the next time. 8-( Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Single Pitch plugin
On Mar 3, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: If you knew anything about the convoluted way Finale stores pitch information, this would not only seem not an oddity but rather all too predictable. I learned years ago always to use major key signatures, because apparently they are the only ones that programmers routinely test their code against. Finale itself has a history of bugs related to minor key signatures. Is there some downside to using major key signatures? The key of Eb major looks exactly the same as that for c minor. Is there some advantage to setting the key to c minor that you don't get with Eb major? If you modulate from a major key to a minor key with a different number of sharps or flats, you don't have to reset your Enharmonic Spelling tables. That's the only advantage I can think of. On the other hand, if you enter a modulation from Eb major to C minor, the key signature stubbornly re-appears as if the number of flats has just changed. Grr. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Single Pitch plugin
On Mar 3, 2005, at 10:16 AM, James Gilbert wrote: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Christopher Smith wrote: On the other hand, if you enter a modulation from Eb major to C minor, the key signature stubbornly re-appears as if the number of flats has just changed. Grr. See Document options-Key Signature-Redisplay key signature if only mode is changing That's it! Heh, heh, I knew there was something... Christopher P.S., So why is this option checked by default? Just wondering... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004
On Mar 3, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Simon Troup wrote: Still, considering the work that goes into templates and libraries, I'm suprised that submission of finale files isn't a hot topic. I'd be very concerned that composers wouldn't gut the files and use them as templates, then just call me in for the difficult stuff! It IS a hot topic. The sentiment among the pros on the list is generally that the Finale files are work product, (while the paper or PDF copy is the deliverable) and a copyist shouldn't give them away unless adequately compensated. Actually, I don't care enough about the secrecy of my libraries even if I have spent a lot of time on them, and I DO give them away to anyone who asks, particularly colleagues and students. If they like my settings and copy them, then the world just may be a cleaner, neater, more understandable place for musicians around that person, and I am comfortable with that. I have benefitted from more experienced fellow Finale users sharing their settings, techniques and libraries, and I will freely pass them on for the benefit of the world at large (yes my ego really is that big!) What I WON'T do, though, is give a client the work product files so that he or she can make an end run around me to another contractor, or change my content without my permission (actually the latter is more my concern.) This is the same as a photographer not giving away the negatives to a client. You have to go back to him for more prints, or compensate him for the work he will undoubtedly lose from giving them to you. In reality, I use so many custom fonts that my Finale files would be unusable on another computer anyway. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004
On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Simon Troup wrote: Actually, I don't care enough about the secrecy of my libraries even if I have spent a lot of time on them, and I DO give them away to anyone who asks, particularly colleagues and students. If they like my settings and copy them, then the world just may be a cleaner, neater, more understandable place for musicians around that person, and I am comfortable with that. I have benefitted from more experienced fellow Finale users sharing their settings, techniques and libraries, and I will freely pass them on for the benefit of the world at large (yes my ego really is that big!) That's great, and I applaud the intent, but I'd be worried that the files would be passed to a spotty teenager paid a little over 12 grand for doing the job in house half as well for people who frankly aren't very good at seeing the value added elegance that I provide in the first place. (Breethe). But if the spotty teenager can't provide the elegance you can, then your settings aren't doing him any good, are they? I'm speaking of using settings in ANOTHER work, not editing work you have already done. Keep those for yourself, by all means! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004
On Mar 3, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I was however _fascinated_ in the topic as some peoples relationships with their clients were very far removed from my own experience - Dennis and others have been talking about issues which simply haven't arisen for me in ten years in the business. Umm, like what? Just wondering. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] instrument.txt file
On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:27 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: 3) how do i override the automatic selection of alternate notehead fonts and percussion notation style with (single-line) percussion instruments (eg. triangle)? somewhere someone has defined the functioning of StaffType and i want access! To the best of my knowledge, that info is not accessible. When I first asked on the subject of drum parts years ago when the Setup Wizard first appeared, I was told by tech support that the feature was intended for newbies, and was never designed to have the control that manual score setup was supposed to have. I hope they will change their minds about that. is it possible to set the stem direction to always up somewhere in the instrument.txt file? i see some stuff in square brackets in that file (eg. [TAB - No Staff Name], [TAB With Stems]) that seems to have an impact on the look of the individual staves, so i assume there is a list of commands somewhere that noone has told us (me?) about... Once again, that info is most likely not available. Try macsupport just to be sure, though. I think they are getting the idea that everyone is using the Setup Wizard. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison
On Mar 4, 2005, at 5:32 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've also written a blog entry on this topic (Finale vs. Sibelius) on my website, would be interested in your feedback: Very nicely put, but for my money (all 0$ of it!) I would have liked more detail than just hairpin openings, particularly any details that might pertain to the accurate and readable, and not much else crowd. These are the ones I have to convince when talking about notation programs. BTW, in your second-last line in the blog, about getting out of Cassis, did you mean to write Maybe I can find that hansom cab driver again or did you really find him handsome? I wouldn't have been confused at all except for a previous line about Sibelius being the knockout bombshell in the tight dress talk about your mixed messages! No complaints from my end either way I am only interested in the idea that you want to express being clearly put across. 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fooled by a measure expression's playback!
I just lost 20 minutes on a foolish problem. I am writing accompaniments to choral arrangements this week, and I tried to play back a file as a test for when the choir director is coming over. I don't use play back very often, but this was a special case. Everything was fine (or as fine as can be expected) until the last seven measures of one work, when it inexplicably started playing back in swing! I checked the Human Playback controls in the Playback window, I even ran the Human Playback plugin to see if I could remove something, I checked the MIDI tool, as this used to be the way to accomplish swing playback, I set Rhythm to every percentage of the original I could imagine, still nothing. Then I saw the Slower staff marking over the seventh last measure. Could I have edited another marking to create that one? I checked the playback on the expression, and sure enough, it was set to play back as Swing. I set it to None, and all was well. ARRGHHH! It just goes to show, practise safe staff expressions, everyone, or some unknown bug may infect you with strange symptoms... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fooled by a measure expression's playback!
On Mar 4, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Harold Owen wrote: Christopher Smith writes: I just lost 20 minutes on a foolish problem. I am writing accompaniments to choral arrangements this week, and I tried to play back a file as a test for when the choir director is coming over. I don't use play back very often, but this was a special case. Everything was fine (or as fine as can be expected) until the last seven measures of one work, when it inexplicably started playing back in swing! I checked the Human Playback controls in the Playback window, I even ran the Human Playback plugin to see if I could remove something, I checked the MIDI tool, as this used to be the way to accomplish swing playback, I set Rhythm to every percentage of the original I could imagine, still nothing. Then I saw the Slower staff marking over the seventh last measure. Could I have edited another marking to create that one? I checked the playback on the expression, and sure enough, it was set to play back as Swing. I set it to None, and all was well. ARRGHHH! It just goes to show, practise safe staff expressions, everyone, or some unknown bug may infect you with strange symptoms... Dear Christopher, I've noticed that when I use the Apply Human Playback plugin there is always an expression added at the beginning that is set to Swing for playback but the setting is zero (unless you had chosen Jazz as the playback option). The handle shows up, on the screen. I often use it for other MIDI settings (such as CC-1 when I'm using GPO). Maybe that expression shows up in your file where the swing begins, but this time with a setting other than zero. Go figure! Yes, I saw it there after I tried the Human Playback plugin, but removed it when I noticed it had no effect. Now that I know what caused the problem, it WOULD have had effect if it had come AFTER the Slower expression (which was on the 3rd beat of that measure.) The swing setting of the Slower expression was cancelling out the no swing, but two beats later. Ah, it's all so clear when you know. It's when you DON'T know that it kills... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] String divisi
On Mar 4, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Mar 4, 2005, at 7:06 AM, Michael Cook wrote: There are many such instances in Strauss's works: he apparently explained to the players that if they imagined the note hard enough and looked as if they were playing it, nobody would hear the difference. Wow! I'll have to try that technique with my chorus Doesn't work so well with bass trombone. I've tried it. Everyone noticed. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B
On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 05 Mar 2005, at 11:18 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been unplayable in normal guitar tuning. Not so unusual for guitarists. Yes -- as Chuck said, that's a wee bit of an understatement. John Denver is hardly an anomaly. There are lots of Jimi Hendrix songs where both he and Noel Redding tune their entire instruments down a half step, drop D tuning was more standard than not for 1990's Seattle grunge bands (and is still widely used), Joni Mitchell has probably used more than fifty different alternate tunings in her songs over the course of her career, and pretty much everyone uses capos at one point or another. And of course everyone's favourite country-jazz guitarist, Pat Metheny. Some of his chords, too, are positively unplayable on a normally-tuned instrument. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Chord symbol
On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote: No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by finale! Roger Darcy gave you good advice about getting what you want on paper. I would gently suggest that while C Bb7 might be easier for you, it might be harder to read for the players, especially if a perfectly usable standard chord symbol already exists in the form Bb13(#11). In my own music, I only resort to polychords when a standard chord symbol DOESN'T exist (and, by the way, in this non-standardised jazz world, it is more common to consider slanted slash chords like C/Bb to indicate a chord with an alternate bass note, whereas the horizontal slash as I indicated first usually indicates a polychord.) But, neither my interests nor Finale's limitations should stop you. In fact, you should write to tech support and mention that Finale should support suffixes on the bottom chord of polychords, as I have. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7
On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:48 PM, Ken Moore wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Stiller writes: Scordatura is sometimes notated that way, and sometimes at the actual pitch, the convention varying with time, place, and circumstance. Any unorthodox tuning of a stringed instrument is scordatura regardless of the notation. OK, but since there seems to be no agreement on the orthodox tuning of the fifth string of a double bass, I would count both B and C as accordatura (following the argument that John Howell found in Grove). Huh? As far as I know, a LOWER fifth string is overwhelmingly tuned to B it's usually the 4th string that goes to low C with an extension or alternate tuning. A HIGHER 5th string is usually tuned to high C (written middle C). Did I misunderstand? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bass Trom
There are a few varieties of contrabass trombone that I know of. One is pitched in BBb, has a double slide (four tubes instead of two), a single F trigger, and is played with a mouthpiece close to the size of a tuba mouthpiece (makes sense, as the tessitura is so similar. The model I am familiar with is made by Mirafon. This is the type that is played by Phil Teele on Toshiko Akiyoshi's contrabass trombone feature I Ain't Gonna Ask No More. Another is pitched in F, with a single slide played with an extension (or not, if you have long arms like me), and often a valve lowering it a fourth. This instrument might seem similar to the bass trombone in G (hey, it's only a tone difference!), but the bore is more like the BBb contrabass (rather than the G bass, whose bore is close to a regular bass trombone) and sounds accordingly. Then there is the cimbasso, which is kind of like a valve contrabass trombone. There doesn't appear to be a lot of standardisation with this instrument, but they are commonly pitched in F or Eb, and often have four to six valves, no hand slide. The configurations vary as well, from a flat-out valve trombone look to more of a euphonium-with-a-trombone-bell type of set-up. They often have pegs to support them, as they are so heavy, and it very well may have been this that you saw. This is the first page turned up by Google http://www.wcwband.co.uk/cimbasso.htm so you might recognize the instrument from the photo. Christopher On Mar 7, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Keith, There is such a thing as a contrabass trombone. One of the players in Maria Schneider's band plays it on her new record, so I suspect that's what you saw. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 07 Mar 2005, at 3:44 AM, Keith Helgesen wrote: Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ. Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Bass Trombone (Brass Band)
On Mar 7, 2005, at 3:28 PM, Joe Laird wrote: Hi Folks, All this talk about bass trombones has got me wondering why the bass trombone is the only non-transposing brass instrument in the traditional British brass band. As I understand it, the practice of transposing all the instruments in a brass band into either Eb or Bb and writing them in treble clef developed in England during the Industrial Revolution. Why didn't the bass trombone follow the same convention? I'm just now finishing the first piece I have written for brass band and find the unusual transposition interesting. Joe My (perhaps faulty) understanding of the tradition is to help keep all the instruments in the staff. A Bb transposed bass trombone would spend a lot of time below the staff. Add to that the additional worry of the traditional G home key of bass trombone, and things could get a bit hairy. Transposed cornet, alto, baritone, tuba etc. all use the same fingerings, so players can freely move between instruments of the same family with only chops to worry about rather than new fingerings. This doesn't affect tenor trombone, I know, but I have no explanation for that. The alternative explanation is that those who choose to play bass trombone are simply more intelligent than most other brass players, and can deal with the different transposition. I subscribe to this theory myself, having chosen bass trombone at a young age. 8-) Christopher (who, as a mark of his intelligence, thought for years that blowing a pedal Bb would make the TV image shake, and only discovered late in life that it was actually his eyes that were shaking when playing loud and low.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins
On Mar 8, 2005, at 9:01 AM, JD wrote: on 3/7/05 10:16 PM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So -- any ideas (1) what is causing these duplicate hairpins to occur, and (2) is there any reasonable way of getting rid of them? I'm not about to go through an existing document and try dragging each individual hairpin to see if there's an identical one underneath. Darcy, The first act of the score I'm working on had 1000s of duplicate smart shapes, including hairpins. I deduced it back to simple copy and paste. If you C/P, not the option-click method, Finale will leave the SS in the target measure and add in any new ones coming from the source. I assembled about 10 Finale files into one score and did a ton of C/P in the process, using the normal routine and Mass Mover. My feeling is that is does make the file bloated, in my case, the final score came in at nearly 4MB, which is huge for Finale. Darcy, On occasion I implode a passage, re-voice it, then explode it back to its original staves. If the articulations were already attached, then my imploded staff has five articulations on every note, showing shadows where I might have nudged one. The way I get around this is to set Mass Edit to copy only articulations, and copy from one of the original staves that only has one articulation to my imploded staff. Then I can safely explode and every exploded staff only has one accent, like they are supposed to. The reason I mention this is you may have a similar procedure available for Smart Shapes. If you go through and delete duplicates from ONE staff, then clear the hairpins from all the others, you can copy them relatively painlessly from the clean staff you created. To delete hairpins easily, I drag one off a bit (this will be the one I keep) drag around the handles for the others to make sure I select ALL of them, hit delete, then drag my saved one back into position again. The smart shapes duplicate every time you perform a drag and drop copy, or a command-c command-v copy and paste, unless you have specifically set the Mass Edit not to copy these items. This is the same effect that occurs with staff expressions, like rehearsal letters. They get duplicated all over the friggin' place. Fortunately, they are easier to deal with. When I drag one away and delete the others (as I described above) I only have to hit Clear to restore the default positioning of the one remaining expression. You don't have this option with hairpins. Does anyone else have these issues with the new copy behaviour? I hate it passionately. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s
At 07:41 AM 3/9/05 -0500, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just FYI -- in case you've never heard the original version, with the Paul Whiteman band and Gershwin at the Piano, you can listen to it here: http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Whiteman/rhapblua.ram There is also a version recorded in 1927 using electrical recording equipment, with much improved sound quality (much improved being a relative term, of course -- we're still talking about 1927, after all): http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Whiteman/rhapsody.ram It looks like (after a couple of mentions) that many consider Rhapsody to be a great work. Although I accept that it was groundbreaking, influential, got a lot of press, yada-yada, I question whether it was really great. It was rushed off after Gershwin had forgotten that he was supposed to write it, and it doesn't really have the cohesion that one would expect from a major work, even from a popular composer. It's just kind of a bunch of nice tunes strung together rather primitively, with a couple of motives sequenced without really any development per se, with a competent orchestration for jazz band with strings. Nothing really great about it, IMHO. For great I would definitely rank his Piano Concerto above Rhapsody, and I would absolutely put Porgy and Bess into the ranks of great, as it not only accomplished everything he was trying to do with Rhapsody, but the structure, development, and cohesion are right up there with other operas. Unfortunately, he wrote it in the 30's, so it doesn't fit your category. For Gershwin works from the 20's I would possibly include I Got Rhythm for its subsequent ubiquity (rather than its greatness), and Fascinating Rhythm because he got it so right, even more right than Charleston got it right. It was good to see a mention of Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and Hot Seven recordings. They, above all others in the jazz domain, deserve a mention. Never before or since have so few sides influenced so many, even including Kind of Blue. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Authentication schemes
On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:21 AM, d. collins wrote: Noel Stoutenburg écrit: I've found it necessary, on account of hard drive failure, to reinstall 2k4 three times, and the biggest inconvenience I experienced was having to wait until the Finale office opened later in the morning, to call and request a new authentication code. Considering that reinstalling the software more than one working day, there was really not an inconvenience here, nor was I, IMO, victimized. I agree with you. You aren't victimized by the authentication process in itself. But you will be victimized the day MM no longer supplies the new codes, and you can no longer reinstall your 2K4. And then it will be too late to do anything about it. You're satisfied with the idea of trashing the software you purchased (this could happen in 6 months), of using Notepad to print your files and of waiting for some third party to produce compatible software (this is precisely how you're victimized: not by having to call to get a code, but by not being able to get one). I'm not. Dennis Well, strictly speaking, you can install 2004 and use it for 30 days before it refuses to run. That should give you enough time to call up, edit, and print any of your files. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s
On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone wrote: That's an easy one -- Rhapsody in Blue isn't jazz. I recently heard a discussion on this very subject - whether R in B was jazz or not. Several wildly different recordings were called upon as witnesses. The conclusion was that when it was played by Jack Splatt's Jazz Band it was jazz and when it was played by Joe Soap's Symphony Orchestra it wasn't. All the best, Lawrence Very close, but more to the point jazz isn't what you play or who plays it, it's HOW you play it. Every note that came out of Miles Davis' trumpet wasn't necessarily jazz (despite what everyone tries to tell us), but a whole bunch of them were, depending on how he approached it. I think Marcus Robert's version of Rhapsody was jazz, or mostly so. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s
On Mar 10, 2005, at 7:04 AM, dhbailey wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: On 09 Mar 2005, at 5:30 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: But I pretty much hate opera, so I'd best disqualify myself from *that* discussion. Well, if you must know, I pretty much hate jazz. You know, it strikes me that both Mark's attitude and mine are pretty characteristic. The number of jazz musicians I know who are into opera is vanishingly small, and I've found very few classical singers who enjoy instrumental jazz. The exceptions on the latter score tend to be light-voiced singers who do almost exclusively new music and hate traditional opera even more than I do. This rule even seemed to hold for the other employees of the classical record store where I worked, who were mostly classical instrumentalists -- the ones who liked opera tended to be uninterested in instrumental jazz, and vice versa. I wonder why that is? They feel threatened by what they don't understand? Huh? You'll have to explain further. It seems to me that not understanding some work would leave you cold, not hating it, and not threaten you at all. I feel much more threatened (as a jazz musician and jazz lover) by so-called smooth jazz which I understand all too well, and have to dance with, around, and to, way too often to suit me. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Authentication schemes
On Mar 10, 2005, at 9:29 AM, d. collins wrote: Christopher Smith écrit: Well, strictly speaking, you can install 2004 and use it for 30 days before it refuses to run. That should give you enough time to call up, edit, and print any of your files. I don't know how closely you've been following this thread, but the discussion is precisely about the day where you can no longer call up because no-one will be answering. Then what do you do? Dennis I meant call up your files. I should have written ...enough time to open, edit, and print... The software works for 30 days without any contact with MakeMusic. When the thirty days are up, delete it and reinstall for another 30 days, if you need to. Probably after Finale goes under you will be creating your new works on some other software, so this should permit you to re-print and edit your old files. I do this from time to time when I have to work on a strange computer. Usually it's only for a couple of days, but the 30-day grace period is very nice, and seems to be aimed precisely at the kind of user I am. Plus, if anyone else happens to see it there, they get to play with it until it lapses, which is pretty good advertising, I should say. I was first attracted to Finale in a similar way when I was working on a large arranging project with a colleague, and I learned how to enter with Speedy, which saved time instead of having him do everything. There was a time lapse, but I eventually bought Finale myself. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s
On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just to clarify, I don't hate opera the way I hate, say, Celine Dion or Kenny G or Andrew Lloyd Webber or American Idol. I hope that was clear. It would be more accurate to say that opera leaves me cold -- with a handful of exceptions, I just don't find most operas satisfying either as music or (especially) as drama. But that's just me. I'm not making any sweeping value judgments, just expressing a personal preference. Anyway, back to the 1920's -- any seconders for Wozzeck? - Darcy Yes, I would second Wozzeck. I saw a chamber orchestration (by John Rea) of it this summer at Orford (staged by Lorraine Pintal), which is rather a small hall, and it was just striking! I was familiar with the large version from recordings, but until you've seen it staged, holy toledo! And I don't even particularly like opera (notice I don't say I hate it!) but this was fantastic. One trombone, and the part was next to unplayable. Fortunately, one of the three trombonists in town who could actually handle it was on the job, and he nailed it, swearing the whole time. (Sorry, off the topic. But yes, the work is a contender for best music of the 20's.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s
On Mar 11, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Michael Cook wrote: At 12:20 -0800 10/03/2005, Mark D Lew wrote: It has been my observation that Wozzeck is most highly praised by people who are very into orchestral music but have little interest in opera. That is, the sort of people who like Wozzeck usually don't much care for Verdi and Puccini, and vice versa. Not my experience. I get as many kicks from Wozzeck as I do from Traviata or Tosca, and in the opera theatre where I work (where we do just about all the big Wagner, Verdi and Puccini stuff) I find many people who feel the same. Wozzeck works on many levels: of course it's great orchestral music, but it's also great theatre and wonderfully written for the singers. And there are passages in Wozzeck that are just as romantic and sexy as anything by Puccini. Michael Cook A complete aside: The chamber orchestration by John Rea of Wozzeck, which I mentioned previously as having a killer trombone part, was played in British Colombia a while ago, and the trombone part prompted the B.C. player to write an article about how to practice for the gig. This would only be of interest to trombonists, but I know there are some here on the list. http://www.musicforbrass.com/articles.php?artnum=182 Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] lyrics underline
Yes, apparently the underscore (along with the space and hyphen) is a reserved character telling Finale to move to the next syllable. You would have to find a similar character, mapped to a different keystroke in the font, to force the underscore to appear by itself. I don't know what font you are using, so I couldn't venture a guess. At the worst, you could change font to one that HAD the character, just for one syllable. Or, if the underscore is by itself on the beat, you could enter an m-dash (on Mac it's opt hyphen, I don't know the alt number on PC) and drag it down manually so that it is in the correct position. If you don't mind me asking, what are you trying to do here? Pardon the possibly insulting question, but if you are trying to create a word extension, Finale has those built-in. If you are trying to put in an elision (two syllables from different words sung on the same note) there is an elision character (like a curved underscore) in a commonly-available font mapped to a diffferent character. I have misplaced my note about it, as it has been a couple of years since I had to do this, but Mark D. Lew here on the list told me about it; perhaps he will chime in. Christopher On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have recently purchased a new computer and installed Finale 2004. It will not allow me to type an underline in the lyrics. I do not need to underline a word, I just need to be able to type the underline. Has anyone encountered this problem before? Sandra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] lyrics underline
In a message dated 3/12/2005 10:34:48 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, apparently the underscore (along with the space and hyphen) is a reserved character telling Finale to move to the next syllable. You would have to find a similar character, mapped to a different keystroke in the font, to force the underscore to appear by itself. I don't know what font you are using, so I couldn't venture a guess. At the worst, you could change font to one that HAD the character, just for one syllable. Or, if the underscore is by itself on the beat, you could enter an m-dash (on Mac it's opt hyphen, I don't know the alt number on PC) and drag it down manually so that it is in the correct position. If you don't mind me asking, what are you trying to do here? Pardon the possibly insulting question, but if you are trying to create a word extension, Finale has those built-in. If you are trying to put in an elision (two syllables from different words sung on the same note) there is an elision character (like a curved underscore) in a commonly-available font mapped to a diffferent character. I have misplaced my note about it, as it has been a couple of years since I had to do this, but Mark D. Lew here on the list told me about it; perhaps he will chime in. Christopher Thank you, Christopher, for your help. I do not feel insulted by your question. I am aware of the word extension and elision. I input music for a church hymnal. Their standard practice is to use an underscore (and move it up) when there are two notes and only one syllable/word in a stanza while the other stanza/stanzas will have two words or syllables on the two notes. I use Ariel font for the lyrics. It is really bad that Finale does not have this option as it did in all other versions. Sandra Here's another message from an AOL address that I couldn't reply to in Mail (mac OSX)! I wish they would fix that! I suppose you are using an underscore because an n-dash or an m-dash are too long? I understand in that case. There should be a way to have a non-breaking hyphen that IS the same character. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] lyrics underline
On Mar 12, 2005, at 1:57 PM, d. collins wrote: Mark D Lew écrit: If so, this must be something new. There's never been any problem with the underscore character up through Fin 2k2. Perhaps it has to do with the new smart word extensions? Has anyone confirmed whether it's a problem with the actual character, or just the keystroke in type-in-score mode? I just opened I file in 2004 which I recall had underscores in the lyrics, and there are no problems. I can also type them directly into the score in 2004, so I can't really understand what the problem is. Are we all speaking of ALT 95? Dennis In FinMac2005 I can't type shift hyphen (which is underscore on the Mac keyboard.) It doesn't appear, and the cursor shifts to the next note. What is alt 95, in Mac-speak? Type one in your reply, and I can copy it and find out. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Instrument changing - midscore
On Mar 13, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Jim and Pat Sodke wrote: Christopher Thank you so much. Any help on changing the midi playback instrument at these points? Jim I just need to quote David Bailey's original reply. I'm not sure how easy it is to do this in 2004, but it is dead easy in 2005, under Playback Options for the expression in question. I suggest assigning the playback to the beginning of the bar, as it takes a fraction of a second to change patches, which might cause the playback to hiccup if you assign to the first note. If you have a note on the first beat, do what you can to switch the patch a bit earlier. The Clarinet to Trumpet is extremely simple -- create an expression TRUMPET which also includes a patch change to the trumpet sound (if you want accurate playback) since clarinet and trumpet share the same transposition and clef. Then create a second expression CLARINET which sets the patch back to the clarinet sound. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Measure spacing handles
On Mar 13, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Apologies - your reply might have been one that arrived in my inbox the afternoon I screwed up my system so badly I had to reinstall. And I'm now scratching my head as to how I'd missed this before - the option that's not on by default isn't for the overall measure width (as you know!). I knew that the lower handle gave me the beat chart, and had only ever tweaked individual bar widths along with doing other stuff in the measure attributes dialog. I guess it's a RTFM moment...I'm feeling kinda stupid now... Heh, heh, join the club! I can't believe sometimes how I could have missed an item for so long. I get a lot of help on this list, though! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FS: GarageKey USB MIDI Keyboard
On Mar 13, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote: P.S. In order to avoid spills on computer equipment, may I suggest altering your work technique? Mount the equipment upside down on swivel posts near a comfortable bed. Carlberg Jones Very nice! However, that would still not eliminate the most frequent cause of tea-in-computer-keyboard mishaps in my studio: the explosive spit as I laugh unexpectedly at somebody's joke here on the List! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MacOSX File overwrite bug
And I've never used Exposé, and I've had the bug, both with minimised and not-minimised files, even before minimising existed. Christopher On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:10 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Jari, Thanks for passing this on, but I'm afraid this person doesn't know what he's talking about. The file overwrite bug has been an issue since at least Finale 2002 in Mac OS 9. It seems worse in post-Fin2004 versions, but it's not new to OS X. It's definitely a Finale but and not an OS X bug. I have experienced the file overwrite problem in OS 10.2.x before Exposé was introduced. I never minimize Finale windows, and yet I have still encountered the bug. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 14 Mar 2005, at 6:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote: Sorry if this has been mentioned, here's a thing I haven't heard mentioned before. The quote is from Peter West in the Mac forum on MM's web forum: --- I have suffered from the file overwrite bug. It is not a Finale bug, it is a MAc OS bug. This, I believe is the problem: If you have expose switched on and minimise a file to the dock, another file open in the same application might under certain cercumstances be overwritten by the minimised file. There seem to be two ways to prevent this happening (I do both for security) 1. Switch off expose 2. Never minimese a finale file to the dock when working on another finale file, just leave the window open in the background. --- Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Slur Interpretation on Playback
On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Leigh Daniels wrote: Hi All, I'm working on a string arrangement using FinMac2004 with MIDI playback to my K2600R. Is there a way for me to get Finale to tell the K2600R to play four slurred 8th notes legato instead of articulating each note? Interpret Slurs is checked in HP. Thanks! **Leigh This is a synth issue as much as a Finale issue. To get a proper legato, you have to have some way of telling the synth doing the playback NOT to use the attack portion of the sample, or to use a different envelope that doesn't have the transients associate with a new bow. Not all synths can do this, so it depends on your K2600R. Assuming it can, the usual way to do this is to have the patch set to monophonic (so it won't be able to play two parts at once, like violin 1 and 2, nor double stops or divisi) and then the synth gets it cue from the sequencer by having the notes overlap by some tiny amount. If I am not mistaken, this is what Interpret Slurs does in Human Playback. Since the patch is set to monophonic play, two notes WILL NOT sound for the overlapped portion, but instead the release portion of the envelope is skipped over for the first note, and the attack portion is skipped over for the following note, so there is a smooth transition between the two notes. Not exactly the same as a real slur, but close enough for jazz. If your patch is NOT set to monophonic, then of course there will just be a slight overhang between notes, but every note will still have its attack and release exactly like separate articulations. If I am mistaken, I am sure someone will correct me. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams
This is a real hard way to do it. Here's an easier way. There is a staff style called Slash Notation. In the Staff tool, select the passage, hit S (for Slash). All of layer 1 is turned into slashes. If you hit R (for RHythmic) every thing turns into stemmed slashes. As you noticed, you need entries in layer 1 to attach the chords to. I use rests so they don't play back. To make items attached to Layer 1 and other layers appear as well, you have to edit the Staff Style. Make this edit in your default file, too, and save it, so that you won't ever have to do it again. 1) To make Slash Notation and Rhythmic Notation staff styles show notes in other layers (essential for drum parts!) Select the Staff Tool (looks like a treble clef) Staff Menu>Define Staff Styles Beside Available Styles select Slash Notation Directly below that about two inches is a check box and Alternate Notation. Click on the Select button just below that. In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Add Dots to Slashes in Compound Meters. ALL of them should be checked. Click OK Beside Available Styles select Rhythmic Notation Click on the Select button just below Alternate Notation again In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Stems up in Rhythmic Notation. Check ONLY the first three; leave the stem direction alone. Click OK, then OK in the Staff Styles dialogue box. That's it! Christopher On Mar 15, 2005, at 12:42 PM, George Ports wrote: Thanks for such a quick reply Dick. Everything you said was understood. I had already made a chart with regular quarter notes and am trying to change them to hash marks. Tried to select all in staff attributes as you said. The noteheads wouldn't change. Has it anything to do with layers or ? George - Original Message - From: Dick Hauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: finale@shsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, George Ports wrote: Is there a way to make a chart with 1/4 note hash marks showing the chord names and the guitar fretboards? Select Staff Attributes select Alternate Notation button click Select select Slash button Ok out. Fret board can be selected from the chord drop down. Dick H ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams
Go ahead and send me the file privately. I'll see what's wrong. Christopher On Mar 15, 2005, at 1:24 PM, George Ports wrote: Changed to Slash Notation with no problem. Lost the Chords and Chord diagrams when I did it. Tried to edit the Staff Style and couldn't figure out just how to do it. Am using winXPand winfin 2005. Thanks for your help, George x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerChristopher Smith/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerfinale@shsu.edu/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:08 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams/x-tad-bigger This is a real hard way to do it. Here's an easier way. There is a staff style called Slash Notation. In the Staff tool, select the passage, hit S (for Slash). All of layer 1 is turned into slashes. If you hit R (for RHythmic) every thing turns into stemmed slashes. As you noticed, you need entries in layer 1 to attach the chords to. I use rests so they don't play back. To make items attached to Layer 1 and other layers appear as well, you have to edit the Staff Style. Make this edit in your default file, too, and save it, so that you won't ever have to do it again. 1) To make Slash Notation and Rhythmic Notation staff styles show notes in other layers (essential for drum parts!) Select the Staff Tool (looks like a treble clef) Staff Menu>Define Staff Styles Beside Available Styles select Slash Notation Directly below that about two inches is a check box and Alternate Notation. Click on the Select button just below that. In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Add Dots to Slashes in Compound Meters. ALL of them should be checked. Click OK Beside Available Styles select Rhythmic Notation Click on the Select button just below Alternate Notation again In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Stems up in Rhythmic Notation. Check ONLY the first three; leave the stem direction alone. Click OK, then OK in the Staff Styles dialogue box. That's it! Christopher On Mar 15, 2005, at 12:42 PM, George Ports wrote: Thanks for such a quick reply Dick. Everything you said was understood. I had already made a chart with regular quarter notes and am trying to change them to hash marks. Tried to select all in staff attributes as you said. The noteheads wouldn't change. Has it anything to do with layers or ? George - Original Message - From: Dick Hauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: finale@shsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, George Ports wrote: Is there a way to make a chart with 1/4 note hash marks showing the chord names and the guitar fretboards? Select Staff Attributes select Alternate Notation button click Select select Slash button Ok out. Fret board can be selected from the chord drop down. Dick H ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] removing contents of a single layer
On Mar 16, 2005, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm working with the demo version of F2005, which does not include any documentation or online help (stupidly, if I may say so). If I want to delete the contents of e.g. layer 4 in a given part, In Finale 2002 I'm used to being able to select that layer and then selecting Show Active Layer Only from the view menu. This allows me to select the music in question and then use backspace to remove the contents of that layer. The contents of other layers remain unaffected. The Show Active Layer Only is no more, apparently. So how do I select a single layer to clear its contents? Simply selecting the layer and then the music in question still removes the contents in all layers when I hit backspace. Thanks, JC Show Active Layer Only is still there. It's in Options menu now, that's all. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Alt-v-a
On Mar 16, 2005, at 10:03 PM, Keith Helgesen wrote: Amazing what you learn when reading threads for interest only! I never knew about Alt-v-a- Wonderful! I really will find that useful- Sure beats pulling down the menu! How does one locate all these shortcuts, macros etc? (Still on Fin2001 BTW) Cheers K in OZ Say, there isn't a Mac version of this shortcut, is there? Mackers, anyone? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Alt-v-a
On Mar 17, 2005, at 7:14 AM, Carlberg Jones wrote: At 7:07 AM -0500 3/17/05, Christopher Smith wrote: Say, there isn't a Mac version of this shortcut, is there? Mackers, anyone? Don't know about that one in particular, but when I go to Mac help and search for keyboard shortcuts I get a wealth of information. You select a topic, get an overview at the bottom, and click there for more detailed information. I use OS 10.3.7. Thank you, that was very helpful. But through no fault of yours, it doesn't seem to help much. For switching to Show Active Layer Only, I need to do this: Control F2 (which switches focus to the menu), tab 5 times, S, down arrow 4 times (because S selects Set Fonts as showing up first in alphabetical order before Show...), enter. A little convoluted, no? Any other Mac types out there with a better way? Christopher PS, I rediscovered that cmd tilde (cmd ~) cycles through open windows. I used to know that, but forgot! That was the old Page View - Scroll View keyboard shortcut in an earlier version of Finale, so it confused me. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 17, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Eric Dussault wrote: We normally count the measure from the first complete measure in a piece or section. I think I remember reading something about a rule that makes the pick-up measure by part of the measure count when it has a certain length (like more than half of a measure). I can't find any reference to this in Stone, Read, Blatter or Ross. Any clues? Thank you, Éric Dussault I have always NOT included any pickup measures in the measure count, even when there is more than one measure as a pickup. I may be wrong there, but it's what I have always done. I only count from the first measure of the phrase, regardless of any pickups. I even see from time to time works where an entire introduction is not numbered, or numbered with a, b etc., or i ii in lower case Roman numerals, like a book preface, though this might only be because the intro was added later and they needed to keep consistency with some other version. My gut feeling is not to number a pickup measure, no matter what the length. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:20 AM, dhbailey wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: On Mar 17, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Eric Dussault wrote: We normally count the measure from the first complete measure in a piece or section. I think I remember reading something about a rule that makes the pick-up measure by part of the measure count when it has a certain length (like more than half of a measure). I can't find any reference to this in Stone, Read, Blatter or Ross. Any clues? Thank you, Éric Dussault I have always NOT included any pickup measures in the measure count, even when there is more than one measure as a pickup. I may be wrong there, but it's what I have always done. I only count from the first measure of the phrase, regardless of any pickups. I'm confused -- how can there be more than one measure as a pickup? Pickups are those notes which make up an incomplete measure before the first measure of the work. The New Harvard Dictionary defines Pickup as one or more notes which precede the first metrically strong beat (usually the first beat of the first comlete measure) of a phrase or a section of a composition; anacrusis, upbeat. Complete measures as part of a pickup would be more of an introduction than a pickup. And measures of an introduction, in my experience, are part of the measure count. I'm thinking of one piece in particular of mine that I started with a 7 eighth-note pickup, but then amended later to be 9 eighth-notes, which of course took up one measure and an eighth note (over two measures), neither of which I chose to number. Seemed silly to me. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 10:18 AM, John Howell wrote: At 7:53 AM -0500 3/18/05, Eric Dussault wrote: Thanks everyone for your opinions. It fortunately confirms the practice I always did. There is one situation where I don't know for sure what to do : considering that the duration of the anacrusis is substracted to the last measure, what are you doing when you have a five quarter notes anacrusis and that the last measure has notes to fill, let's say, a half note? There is then not enough beats left on the measure to substract 5 quarter notes. I consider that rule an anachronism, similar to the stacking up of breve and semibreve rests in an incomprehensible pile instead of simply writing in |21| ! Others may not agree, but the layout has to fit the music, not the other way around, and not all music lends itself to following that rule. Umm, I was about to say the same thing, but John beat me to it. Christopher (that is to say, Me, too!) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 12:50 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 18 Mar 2005 at 7:58, Christopher Smith wrote: I'm thinking of one piece in particular of mine that I started with a 7 eighth-note pickup, but then amended later to be 9 eighth-notes, which of course took up one measure and an eighth note (over two measures), neither of which I chose to number. Seemed silly to me. Maybe musically, but measure numbers are not for musical analysis, but for ease of rehearsing. Having more than one measure before measure 1 means that talking about the first full measure means *not* using simple measure numbers. The other issue is that your score will be forced to not follow the usual practice of having no measure numbers on the first system, since you have to indicate that it's the third frame that is actually numbered measure 1. I understand that, and I forced the measure number to appear in that case on my bar 1. Then why the convention of not numbering incomplete pickup measures? If numbering is ONLY for keeping everyone in the same place, why shouldn't an incomplete pickup bar have a number? Why number solo works, since only one person is playing it? For that matter, in the example I cited above (BEFORE the revision) I had a pickup measure with 7 eighths in it. I didn't bother making it a 7/8 bar, as that seemed needlessly fussy and would most likely interfere with reading, rather than helping it. So since that pickup measure is notated as a FULL measure of 4/4 (starting with an eighth rest), should it have a number? I didn't think so at the time, and saw no reason to change my mind in the revised version just because I had two extra eighths added onto the seven already there. The gesture was not different enough for me to see the difference. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Handwritten fonts
On Mar 17, 2005, at 11:00 PM, John Bell wrote: I know that the Jazz font is quite popular with writers and players who are accustomed to handwritten music. Personally I have always regarded it as rather silly, if you're using a computer, to pretend that you're not. But I do recognize that some people like to feel that the music is new, has just been written, and is not yet set in stone. The Inkpen font is also popular with Sibelius users. I have a small project in which I do want to produce some music that looks handwritten. My own style, pre-computer, was distinctive in that I attached all stems, whether up or down ones, to the right-hand side of note-heads. Is there any way that this can be achieved with Jazz or Inkpen? John As Brad mentioned, in Document OptionStems, select the button Stem Connections. Select your quarter note head, hit Edit. Drag the bottom stem to the right of the notehead. Repeat for the half note head. If I may venture a response to your comment about inkpen type music fonts being silly, it is not about trying to pretend that it wasn't written on a computer. I often use standard serif fonts for titles and the like, along with JazzFont noteheads, for example. It's about trying to make the music look as much like what a musician is used to seeing as possible, so that they can relax and not have decode every marking separately (like reading words phonetically, how fast do you read like that, for example - upside down?) In addition, some glyphs do not exist in the other fonts that are essential for proper notation of jazz music. And as for the not set in stone thing, you got that part right, but it's not so much about it being new, it's about giving some control over the final sound to the performer. All written music has elements of that philosophy, but it is essential to good jazz, and a stricter engraved look conveys more of a do it THIS way authority than a hand font does. I have often seen this effect, and though I am a pragmatist in as many ways as I can be, I recognize that a good state of mind on the performer's part is essential for good music, so I try to help that along any way I can, up to and including bringing coffee and cookies to the reading session, and using an inkpen font on the parts. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Mar 18, 2005, at 12:24 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: The first measure is the beginning of the harmonic rhythm, and should be dictated by the composer's intention. This is by no means necessarily the case. Partial measures are not numbered precisely because they are not full measures. This is made particularly clear when there is a repeat sign back to the beginning, and the pickup forms the back end of a measure that has already been numbered, just before the repeat sign. As you mentioned, this may be yet another difference between classical and jazz conventions. I have never seen, not even once, a repeat in the middle of a measure in a jazz tune, even when it may have seemed obvious to have one, while I have seen them numerous times in classical works. DC's to partial pickup measures are not done in jazz, the pickup being part of the last measure before the DS. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 10:44 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hiro, I don't know how many times I have to say this. Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form. You keep confusing two completely unrelated issues. In a 32-bar AABA tune with a two-bar intro, you delineate the form with double bars and rehearsal letters or numbers, NOT measure numbers. You still have to assign a unique number to each complete measure, though. - Darcy Darcy, I was ready to capitulate on the numbering-all-complete-measures issue, but this went over the edge. You can say Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form. all you like, but in standard even-numbered forms, especially when written in lead-sheet format, many jazz musicians depend on the measure numbers to orient themselves. I know you understand about aligning the phrases with the beginnings of systems for readability; this is exactly the same. It may not be THE conventional way, but it IS a way that many players are familiar with, particularly with regards to standards. These are probably the guys who also number 1st endings as measure 8 and 2nd endings as 8a, to preserve the numbering scheme from phrase to phrase. Yet, as Hiro said, if one is not composing in symmetrical phrases, it won't matter. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 18 Mar 2005 at 14:08, Christopher Smith wrote: For that matter, in the example I cited above (BEFORE the revision) I had a pickup measure with 7 eighths in it. I didn't bother making it a 7/8 bar, as that seemed needlessly fussy and would most likely interfere with reading, rather than helping it. . . . Well, it would also be played differently from a partial 4/4 measure by any musician who has any sensitivity whatsoever to meter. I'm surprised a composer would even consider the two options equivalent. I'm sure you understood me correctly; why are you giving me such a hard time about my nomenclature? Of course I have to tell Finale that it is a 7/8 bar, displayed as an incomplete 4/4 bar. Finale doesn't space it correctly if I don't do it that way. But I chose NOT to use an incomplete 4/4 bar (happy now?) for a pickup of 7 eighth notes, for reasons of clarity. . . . So since that pickup measure is notated as a FULL measure of 4/4 (starting with an eighth rest), should it have a number? I didn't think so at the time, and saw no reason to change my mind in the revised version just because I had two extra eighths added onto the seven already there. The gesture was not different enough for me to see the difference. Well, if it's got a downbeat, even if that downbeat is a rest, it should be numbered measure 1, in my opinion. And in the opinions of others as well. I think I am in a minority on this one, along with Chuck and Hiro (although it's pretty good company to be in!) I think notating 7 8th notes as an incomplete bar would be *very* confusing, though, as it's too easy to mistake it for a full measure (though beaming in groups of 4 rather helps with that). On the other hand, notating it as a full measure with a rest would tend to obscure the upbeatness of the entire measure. That was also part of my dilemma about notating this pickup. I'm not entirely convinced that an upbeat *can* be that long, in any perceptible sense, except in very fast tempos, but that's an esthetic argument that gets into personal tastes. On the contrary, I think it can be very clear, even in slow tempos. Compare the 7 eighth-note beginnings to In a Sentimental Mood by Ellington, or Daahoud by Clifford Brown (clearly a pickup) to Someone to Watch Over Me by Gershwin or My One And Only Love by Wood and Melllin (clearly the first measure of an eight-bar phrase.) I can send you PDF's if you don't have copies nearby. No question in any of those cases. That's why I am so touchy about notating them in a way that the appearance on paper will jibe with the sound. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Justifying Text in Expression Designer
Rob, Justification is not one of the features that staff expressions have, at least, not in the present version of Finale. Yes, I bemoaned that fact, too, and sent off a request to Finale to include justification next time, as that is the last thing you can do in Text expressions that you can't do in Staff Expressions. The two tools use the same engine, apparently, that's why the feature is there in the box, but grey. Christopher On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:10 AM, Rob Deemer wrote: Thanks Noel, I'm not sure that's it...Finale obviously has given us the ability to create multi-line text expressions within the expression designer. The Text menu for the Expression Designer has some, but not all, of the capabilities of the Text Tool and Justification is one of them. I'm just trying to figure out what toggles that feature from greyed to activated. I'm on a Mac, btw... --- Noel Stoutenburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob Deemer wrote: Hello all, I'm finishing up orchestrating a ballet (aka my dissertation) and I'm running into an odd problem. When I'm working in the Text Expression Designer and have an expression that has more than one line, the Justification tools are greyed out. Any ideas on why this is and how I can get it working again? Thanks! My best answer: the designers of Finale consider that an expression is going to be so short that it can fit into a single line, and that therefore, justification is unnecessary, and didn't provide for justification in expressions. Best workaround: hide the expressions, and create a duplicate expression as a measure attached text-block if you need the justification. I haven't had the need to use this feature yet, so I've not tried this second choice: use hard [non-breaking] spaces to put the justification in manually. In windows, the nonbreaking space is created by pressing down the Alt- key, while entering the digits 0173 on the numeric keypad. ns -Rob Rob Deemer Doctoral Candidate in Music Composition, Assistant Director, UT New Music Ensemble The University of Texas at Austin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius into Finale
On Mar 19, 2005, at 7:28 AM, john harding wrote: I'm no Finalist, but I did once save a Sibelius score as MIDI and then open it in Finale. I wanted to see if it would (unlike Sibelius) notate multiple Scotch Snaps correctly, which it did. The formatting seemed to have flown out the window, and others will know better than I whether that was recoverable. I'd be interested to know, actually, because I'm still sitting on a folder with about 200 backward-facing scotch snaps, and it's either Finale or pen and ink. OK, I have to ask. What's a Scotch Snap? Does it have to do with Scottish drumming (utterly amazing, when done well!) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 19 Mar 2005, at 12:10 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I was ready to capitulate on the numbering-all-complete-measures issue, but this went over the edge. You can say Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form. all you like, but in standard even-numbered forms, especially when written in lead-sheet format, many jazz musicians depend on the measure numbers to orient themselves. Do any of the tunes in The New Real Book series have any measure numbers at all? Is it hard to orient yourself when playing from a lead sheet from one of those books? Now, why is that? It's because the charts are laid out intelligently, with new sections beginning new systems, and proper use of double bars and rehearsal letters. Nobody minds the lack of measure numbers, because measure numbers don't actually do the work you are claiming they do. Or rather, they are only pressed into service for that purpose if the copyist did a lousy job with the layout and section markers (double bars, rehearsal letters). Your point about the New Real Book not having measure numbers illustrates my point even better than it does yours. Turn to the Daahoud lead sheet in the original Real Book (sorry, not the New Real Book) in a rehearsal. Say to the musicians, I would like the rhythm section to break in bar 3. Which bar are they going to break on, the 3rd bar of the form, or the 3rd full bar (which is the 2nd bar of the form)? Pretty much 100% of the musicians I play with are going to ignore the pickup bar completely for purposes of measure counting, despite it being notated as a complete measure. In fact, Finale-copied lead sheets that HAVE bar numbers sometimes serve to confuse the issue. In the case of Daahoud, if I referred to bar 3, they might ask back, Bar NUMBER 3, or the 3rd bar of the form? I know you understand about aligning the phrases with the beginnings of systems for readability; this is exactly the same. I disagree. The first -- aligning the beginnings of phrases with the beginnings of systems and marking them with double bars and rehearsal numbers/and or letters -- is absolutely standard practice, is instantly obvious at a glance, and is still useful in situations where you aren't shackled to cycling through a 32-bar AABA form. Measure numbers just can't do that kind of work. They are not instantly visible at a glance (even when every measure is numbered) and they aren't reliable indicators of where you are in the form, precisely because even in the arrangement of a standard, you may -- or, working today, you almost certainly will be -- dealing with all kinds of extended or truncated phrases, introductions, interludes, interjections, etc. Even if you have a chart that is absolutely slavishly literally 32-bar AABA all the way through, how many choruses does it take before the measure numbers cease to twig anything in the mind of a player? I'll accept that 1, 9, 17, and 25, but 73? 81? 113? Come on. One chorus. That's all it takes. It's important to musicians playing lead sheets, because they spend a lot of their careers playing standards with symmetrical forms. Not recognizing that fact might cause me to inadvertently create weirdness that reduces the readability of a lead sheet, instead of increasing it. If we are talking about a full-fledged arrangement, with extended intro, coda, yada yada, then I agree with you, of course the most important thing in measure numbering is that is all be the same and predictable for all players, rather than sticking to the basic form. Yet, as Hiro said, if one is not composing in symmetrical phrases, it won't matter. Again, I think it is an absolutely terrible idea to have one numbering system for pieces with symmetrical 8-bar phrases all the way through, and a different numbering system for pieces without. Why? The notation of a piece should reflect the clearest communication to the players, and having set measure numbers starting at the beginning of symmetrical phrases is the clearest way to communicate that in certain works. I'm stuck here defending a principle that I only apply myself rarely, as most of my music is NOT written in 32-bar lead sheets, and only one has ever had a measure or more pickup. But I think the principle is sound, nevertheless, when applied to that kind of music. Another aside: I was cranky yesterday when I answered you and David Fenton on this subject. I'm sorry for the tone I took (especially in David's case, as it was my fault for not being clear in the first place) and I apologise. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Libraries not backwards compatible?
On Mar 19, 2005, at 3:30 PM, John Roberts wrote: I was hoping to make a small library of articulations (simple guitar fingerings) to send to a friend still using Finale 97. A quick experiment seems to indicate that to do even this little thing I would need to create the library in Fin 97 or earlier. Is this indeed the case or is there a way to get around it? (I'm on Mac, using 2001 and 2003 until they fix 2005 - ha ha). Thanks, John Roberts No, I'm afraid that libraries are not compatible between versions, even between platforms (much to my surprise!). It would be better to send him a Finale document (created with Fin 97) and let him extract the libraries himself, as I have had very poor success with sending libraries even to others on the same platform as myself. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 19, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 19 Mar 2005, at 12:19 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Your point about the New Real Book not having measure numbers illustrates my point even better than it does yours. How, exactly? My point is that proper layout and use of rehearsal letters and double bars is *wy* more important to musicians keeping their place in the form than measure numbers. So much so that even when there are no measure numbers, it's perfectly easy to keep your place. I wasn't arguing against that at all. But calling bars out on a lead sheet, that's another story. in a rehearsal. Say to the musicians, I would like the rhythm section to break in bar 3. Which bar are they going to break on, the 3rd bar of the form, or the 3rd full bar (which is the 2nd bar of the form)? If the chart had been properly copied (according to the standards of the New Real Book), there would be no eighth rest in the pickup measure, and there would be a boxed rehearsal letter [A] in the first full measure. So you could say, There's a break in the 3rd bar of [A] -- or, even, There's a break in bar 3 -- without any confusion at all. You would have to say There's a break in bar FOUR if the measure HAD the eighth rest, which is what I was arguing against. Or if it had an 8-eighth note pickup instead of a 7 note pickup, which is not all that different from what is there already. I'm not sure musicians are aware enough of the rule about only numbering complete measures to make the distinction between the bar numbers with a 7 note pickup and an 8 note pickup. It's all the same to them (and to me too, pretty much, anyway.) Remember, most jazz musicians don't know that repeats are not supposed to occur on DSs, or that accidentals only apply in the same octave as they first appear in the measure, and they even have trouble keeping track of accidentals that have already appeared in the measure at times! A detail about the pickup bar being numbered if it is complete escapes them completely, I'm sure. Speaking of which, let's go back to the New Real Book. Open it up to Airegin. Are you going to tell the band The bass breaks on beat 4 of bar 2 or The bass breaks on beat 4 of the second bar of [A]? That lead sheet has a full written intro, in which case we seem to be in agreement. Let's keep the discussion to pickups, especially those of 1 measure more or less. In fact, Finale-copied lead sheets that HAVE bar numbers sometimes serve to confuse the issue. In the case of Daahoud, if I referred to bar 3, they might ask back, Bar NUMBER 3, or the 3rd bar of the form? That's an argument for *more* consistency, then, not less. I AM arguing for consistency. I expect NO pickup measures to be numbered, no matter whether they are complete or not. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pick-up measure
On Mar 19, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Written measure numbers are not usually found on lead sheets anyway. We started this discussion talking about arrangements, and somehow we segued into lead sheets -- two very different situations. OK, I thought we WERE talking about lead sheets. But I think the idea applies to all pickups. I'm not sure musicians are aware enough of the rule about only numbering complete measures to make the distinction between the bar numbers with a 7 note pickup and an 8 note pickup. Okay, again, this is a completely different situation from a arrangement, where every complete measure is numbered (and labeled). Right. Except I know that the NY and LA show and film standards are used in all local situations, where ALL measure numbers are labelled, but often that gets too cluttered for general use, especially with a rehearsed band that doesn't necessarily need ALL measures numbered. At the beginnings of systems and at double bars is generally enough for me in those situations. Lead sheets usually don't have any measure numbers at all. Mine do. But not usually EVERY measure, just starts of systems, as I said. When people are rehearsing from lead sheets, they usually use *relative* terms like Let's take it from the bar before the bridge or Let's take it from the second bar of the last A. (When working from a 32-bar AABA lead sheet, I have never in my life heard anyone say Let's take it from bar 26 instead of the second bar of the last A.) I put the measure numbers so that it will be easier to say, What are you playing on bar 26? than What are you playing on the second bar of the last A. It's for ease of rehearsing and playing, and for clarity. I AM arguing for consistency. I expect NO pickup measures to be numbered, no matter whether they are complete or not. What's the difference between a complete pickup measure and a one-bar intro? For any of the tunes I cited, is there any question? They are all clearly pickups. And do you really want to spend rehearsal time splitting that particular hair? The hair I want to avoid splitting is the one where a 7-eighth-note pickup is NOT numbered (or maybe it is, if it is notated as a full measure?), whereas an 8-eighth-note pickup IS. But, as I said, it has only shown up once in twenty-odd years, in my case. In an arrangement, the rule is you number from the first complete measure -- intro or not -- and show measure numbers on every bar. I'm still having trouble understanding why you are apparently so dead-set against following this convention, which works extremely well and does not rely on subjective judgment calls as to what's intro material and what's not. I'm only set against it when it is clearly a pickup. In all other case, I always have and probably always will follow the number the first full measure rule. Do you put a double bar on the left side of measure 2 in that case, to keep the form clear? Say in the case of a 7-eighth-note pickup to an intro, where a rehearsal letter might not be warranted? I would. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Cues over Drum line.
On Mar 20, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Keith Helgesen wrote: x-tad-bigger/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerIs it possible, in Win Fin 2001 to put a Small note cue melody line above a drum part which is largely staff style measure or double measure repeats./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerI have no prob putting a cue line over a drum part, but how do I do it over staff style measure repeats./x-tad-bigger I don't actually suggest this, as the one-bar repeat means to literally play the previous bar exactly, whereas you are contradicting that by putting cues in the measure (assuming you mean the drummer to play them!) But this is how: 1) To make Slash Notation, Rhythmic Notation, and One and Two-bar Repeat staff styles show notes in other layers (essential for drum parts!) Select the Staff Tool (looks like a treble clef) Staff Menu>Define Staff Styles Beside Available Styles select Slash Notation Directly below that about two inches is a check box and Alternate Notation. Click on the Select button just below that. In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Add Dots to Slashes in Compound Meters. ALL of them should be checked. Click OK Beside Available Styles select Rhythmic Notation (or One bar repeat, or Two bar repeats) Click on the Select button just below Alternate Notation again In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Stems up in Rhythmic Notation. Check ONLY the first three; leave the stem direction alone. Click OK, Repeat the above paragraph for other styles as necessary, then click OK in the Staff Styles dialogue box. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale