from:"Christopher Smith"

On Feb 25, 2005, at 10:47 AM, shirling  neueweise wrote:
kurt, johannes (and others),
From: Kurt Gnos
I would NOT mingle the two tools since they have an entirely other 
functionality. However, I'd like some of the things you mention, but 
in the Text Tool where I might use them.
actually they don't, both tools at present control different instances 
of very similar items: what difference is there between a multi-word 
text block and a multi-word text expression (in the current state of 
the tools)?
The difference for me is I don't necessarily want to see every text 
block in the dialogue box list, especially if they show up in the 
displayed font size. Why would I want to see my titles, copyright, 
composer, stage instructions, dialogue cues, etc., every time I want to 
add a mute marking? I don't usually need to duplicate those, though I 
agree the possibility should be there in the Text tool. The way things 
are divided now, as restrictive as it is, is actually an organisational 
advantage.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Given the new capabilities of text expressions (multi-line, control
of automatic placement), why would any one use a measure-attached
text block, rather than a measure-attached expression?
Justification. Can't do it in the new text expressions.
Measure-attached text blocks *do* overlap in behavior with text
expressions, but in recent versions of Finale, text expressions have
been enhanced to the point that I no longer see any use for measure-
attached text blocks.
Almost true, but not quite. In addition to the justification issue, one 
rarely re-uses text blocks, whereas we often reuse text expressions, as 
some have pointed out. Having blocks of dialogue cues show up in the 
text expression list would be a huge pain, so it is logical (now) to 
enter them as measure-attached text blocks, for one example.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Clearing Staff Styles

Revelation!
I often need to clear a staff style for a measure or two, and have done 
it for a number of years now by selecting Clear Staff Styles from the 
Staff menu. I just now discovered that I can do the same thing with one 
key, Clear on the Mac (I imagine it's the backspace above Enter for 
PCers), or fn 6 on my laptop.

Ye gods!
I can't believe I didn't know this for so long! I had better sit down 
with the manual again. First scrolling pages wtih command-pg down, then 
this. Wow. Mucho time saver.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players

Linda,
I have a CD (it's the example set of CD's from Samuel Adler's book The 
Study of Orchestration that has index numbers in addition to track 
numbers. This means that Track 1 has five or so examples, each with 
their own index number, so Track 1.1, 1.2, etc. He manages to squeeze 
many individual examples onto each CD this way, and it is old; one of 
the first generations of CDs, so I know it's part of the standard from 
way back. Not all CD players can get to the individual index numbers, 
so all you can do is start playing Track 1 and wait for the other index 
numbers to play before you get to 1.5, but it's probably better than 
endlessly punching next track every time the CD is played. You can 
group short examples in the same category together, hopefully starting 
with one they are likely to start with, and save their trigger fingers 
for the mouse button!

I'm not sure how to do this, as I have never used this feature of the 
spec myself, but this info might get you on the right track.

Christopher
On Feb 25, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Linda Worsley wrote:
Listers,  I know that there are many tekkie geniuses on this list and 
maybe one of you with knowledge of the various generations of CD 
players can answer this one:

I'm preparing a set of CDs for an educational project (always a 
mind-blower, in terms of what people ask for).  It's a listening 
project with really good music for kids to learn, but they require an 
assessment CD with about a gazillion snips of the tunes for kids to 
identify.  Long story short, The way they wanted it, there were 128 
tracks.  That's impossible, of course, but I got it down to 96 by 
talking them out of having a voiceover read the answers to each quiz 
(I figure even a BAD teacher can read letters and numbers, in a 
pinch).  Also, even at that, the CD is now 79 minutes long, which of 
course most CD players will accommodate these days.

I'm just afraid that some of the schools may be using ancient CD 
players, some of which will PLAY these CDs, but stop at around 74 
minutes.  Others may not be able to punch in track numbers above nine 
or ten (I had one like that back in the day.)  Does anyone have a good 
idea how we might word a warning:  Like, If you are using a CD player 
that was made before 19, you may not be able to access the tracks 
automatically, and your player may not play the final few minutes of 
CD2.  Please use a newer CD player, and make certain in advance that 
you can access all of the material.  Or somesuch.  I don't have to 
word the final version.

What I want to know is: Does anyone have a good approximate cutoff 
year for players that are pretty much able to do what we need?

(Never mind that if music teachers have to punch the advance button 
ninety or so times, to access the final elements, they will go on 
disability for repetitive stress syndrome.)  Ah... music educators... 
ya gotta love 'em.

Any suggestions welcome, and thanks,
Linda Worsley


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT somewhat...CD players

On Feb 25, 2005, at 7:08 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
Christopher's suggestion of index numbers probably won't work. We have
players capable of that at the radio station, but nobody's ever 
actually
tried to use that feature!


When you say won't work, do you mean that not all the cues will be 
audible? Or that (as I had mentioned) that CD players without index 
fucntions will see just fifteen or so large tracks instead of fifteen 
tracks divided into smaller index numbers?

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 05:04 PM 2/25/05 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
I actually want the functionality of measure text blocks improved, 
since
at the moment there is only very limited use for them. I want to be 
able
to assign a _measure_ attached text block to a position on the _page_.
I know you pretty much dismissed what I was suggesting, but if you 
look at
the image I created, you'll see that your requested functionality is 
there.
In fact, by changing the droplist entry, you could change it from 
measure
to page, or page to measure, and create a relative (to parent) or 
absolute
(to page) position. (Or duplicate it and change the parameters of the 
new
item.)

(You also were worried about merging items creating long lists. No 
need to
do that with the label-based approach, either.)

Here's that image again: http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif
Dennis
PS: Anyone think this approach is worth discussing more? Even if Finale
doesn't implement anything like it?
My main worry with that sort of thing (and even with jef's basic idea 
to merge the tools) is that to get a type of expression that is 
different in function requires more mouse clicks. As it stands now, the 
type and position of the mouse click determines the type of text 
expression (note- or measure-attached) while in the Text tool 
double-clicking and dragging automatically puts constraints on the size 
of the text box, which are things we need to set in both those cases.

I have a similar kind of issue with TG Tools Smart Part extraction. 
Although it is amazingly powerful, flexible, intelligent and I know it 
pretty well now, sometimes it is quicker and less fussy to use Finale's 
built-in explosion tool. Although I appreciate the need for power and 
flexibility, I wouldn't want it at the expense of easy (meaning fewer 
keystrokes) implementation of the things I do much more often. Can you 
see a way to do that?

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

On Feb 26, 2005, at 12:49 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
I've made changes to the toolbar mockup at
http://maltedmedia.com/photos/toolbar.gif to reduce Playback and
Duplicate buttons to icons, add Click and item number next to 
Attached
to, add a justification droplist, and add a snap-to-grid checkbox. 
(For
text boxes I would change the vertical/horizontal boxes to show their
coordinates of text boxes.)

In your tool bar mockup, where are the create and delete buttons 
for text expressions? These are such useful buttons in the present 
interface that I would hate to lose them.

Also for the Page attachment, are we able to select page ranges, and 
discontiguous ranges at that? Once again, there is some excellent 
functionality in the present system.

Or have I completely misunderstood again, and you are suggesting this 
toolbar IN ADDITION to the present dialogue box?

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Tips site update! AND a Simple Entry query

On Feb 26, 2005, at 1:05 AM, Don Hart wrote:
Jari,
Thanks for keeping up this website and for adding helpful things like 
the
new interviews.

I read through most of Tyler Turner's interview (I didn't realize the 
escape
key did that!) and I thought I'd put out a general question about 
Simple
Entry to the list:

How many reading this have been converted from *midi* speedy note 
entry to
the new and improved simple note entry by Finale's recent push in 
that
direction?

While I am still a hard-core Speedy person, I am forced to use Simple 
on my laptop when I am away from my desktop computer (MIDI-less Speedy 
without a numeric keypad is rather clumsy, IMHO) and I am suitably 
impressed with it. I know Linda Worsley, among others, is a complete 
Simple Enterer, though she was long before the overhaul, and many of my 
students who lack MIDI keyboards use this too. Perhaps rather than 
converting people, it makes Finale easier and more attractive to people 
who might never use MIDI Speedy entry.

One thing I have noticed is that percussion maps seem to behave 
differently in Simple than in Speedy, for some reason. I haven't worked 
out exactly what it is, but I get unexpected results with automatic X 
heads at times. When I have time to muddle through it and figure out 
the behaviour, I will report in.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: new and improved text tool

On Feb 26, 2005, at 11:46 AM, shirling  neueweise wrote:
there will be user-definable default settings for the Text, including 
not only font and size, but also leading and all other text attributes 
(why this is not already the case escapes me...) and for the three 
manners of attaching it.

contextual behaviour:
- dblclick on note = note-attached; dblclick on measure = 
measure-attached; dblclick on page = page-attached.
- option-dblclick on note/measure/page = brings up the Text List and 
automatically creates a new text (based on the default) with 
positioning assignment already selected according to the place the 
user clicked (note, measure, page); the user can immediately begin to 
type the new Text in the edit box.  (dblclicking the handle of a Text 
already assigned in the score behaves same as current behaviour, edit 
box is immediately called up)
- option-dblclick-drag = new Text with resizable frame (for note-, 
measure- and page-attached Texts! YAY!) which can be edited on page 
(as previously with text tool); once defined, dblclick the handle to 
edit on page, option-dblclick to edit in Text List.
- option-shift-dblclick-drag = assigns existing Text with resizable 
frame, Text List is called up, user selects, hits enter, and is 
returned to the resizable Text box with the selected Text inserted.

jef
That looks very good. I like the idea of being able to control 
parameters like that WITHOUT extra keystrokes, just changing where one 
clicks.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OS X: Underline shortcuts in menus?

On Feb 26, 2005, at 3:44 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Meanwhile, OSX comes with a little helper.  Just hit Ctrl+Shift+F2 (if
nothing happens, hit Ctrl+Shift+F1 first then the feature is enabled).
See you can navigate menus with arrow keys then hit [ENTER].  I don't
like mousing and I got used to this way.  May be this is the reason I
don't use iKey much so I don't need to get frustrated with it :-)
Oo, isn't this cute! I learn so much new here!
Thanks
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda

On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 26 Feb 2005 at 16:38, Christopher Smith wrote:
I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I
start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over
from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old
kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go
backwards won't work.
I don't understand why Ctrl-= wouldn't give you the backward tie.,
and why a CODA would be different from a 2nd ending.
I just checked a file with a 2nd ending that has a tie to the
previous measure, as well as a tie to the next note, and it works
just fine using Ctrl-=.

I don't know why it should be different, either, but it doesn't work in 
Mac (opt = is the keystroke) unless it is the first note on beat 1 of 
the first measure of a second ending. Apparently there is some flag or 
other that is set for second endings, but I don't know why it has to be 
set. Bug report!

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda

On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 26 Feb 2005, at 4:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 26 Feb 2005 at 16:38, Christopher Smith wrote:
I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I
start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over
from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old
kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go
backwards won't work.
I don't understand why Ctrl-= wouldn't give you the backward tie.,
and why a CODA would be different from a 2nd ending.
Well, it is, and there's no good reason for it.  For reasons known 
only to Coda, backwards ties only work on 2nd endings.

Chris, you will have to fake it with a manually tweaked slur or other 
such kludge.

- Darcy
That's what I was afraid of. Actually, while I was waiting (five whole 
minutes, what took you guys so long?8-)  ) I tried this:

I took the 2nd tied note of the coda and added a forwards tie to it, 
going nowhere.
I reversed that tie with Special Tool, to go backwards to the first 
note.
I then reversed the tie on the first note to go backwards.

Good thing this whole note wasn't tied over 12 measures! I would have 
had a lot of ties to mess around with!

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?

On Feb 26, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote:
At 15:22 26.02.2005, you wrote:
When I import a midi file into Finale, the drums won't appear. Finale 
is creating a drums staff, but it remains empty. I tried this out 
using several midi files. The pity is the main reason ARE the drums - 
I am arranging some funk stuff and hoped I could take the drums out 
of a midi file and transcribe the rest myself.
I isolated the drum part - still an empty space in Finale (2005b, also 
2004).
I changed the channel of all events - still empty (why?)
I tried other midi files including a drum part - won't work.

I searched Coda's site for help - nothing to be found
Why can Finale import no drum parts?
Kurt
I didn't answer because I've never run across this. Finale imports all 
of my drum parts perfectly (well, normally, anyhow!) You can even 
specify a percussion map like General Midi Input so that the low C2 for 
bass drum shows up correctly on the first space, etc.

I'm afraid this might be a question for tech support.
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OSX Lyric Slowdown!!!

On Feb 27, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Brian Williams wrote:
Dear List,
I have been working on a Finale 2004 transcription project in MacOS 
10.2.4
that simply involves a vocal staff with lyrics and 2 staves of piano. 
I have
found that the only way I can get any usable speed is to enter all the 
notes
in the vocal first and then go back and enter all the lyrics. If I try 
to
edit the vocal staff after *ANY* lyrics have been entered, my 800MHz
PowerBook G4 acts like my old 25Mhz Mac IIcx did during a major 
mass-mover
operation in Finale 3.0 -- in other words, it's slower than molasses!
Finale 2003 in OS 9.2.2 is *WAAAYY* faster than this! What's up?

Brian
You are right, this is a huge slowdown in FinMac 2004 when lyrics are 
involved. The slowness of this version caused me to abandon that 
version altogether, reverting to 2003 under OS9 and switching to OSX 
only when 2005 came out.

This can help. Make sure you have the latest update of 2004. Under 
Program OptionsViewUpdate Smart Hyphens and Word Extensions, click 
Manually. Then everything looks wonky (no hyphens at all, word 
extensions all over the place) until you manually update them, which 
you can do just before printing from the Edit Menu.

Turning off Automatic Update Layout helps, too, as well as Automatic 
Music Spacing and Human Playback. Turning off the Message bar 
reportedly helps, too, though I don't do that.

The general slowness is much improved in FinMac 2005, but I still have 
the smart word extensions turned off, as well as Human Playback.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing

On Feb 27, 2005, at 11:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Greetings! I'm new to the list (though not to Finale) and have a question about swing playback.
I scanned music, converted it to MusicXML format using SharpEye, then imported it into Finale 2005 for editing. The music contains standard triplets, dotted 8th/16th combinations, and pairs of regular eighth notes. I ultimately want to save the Finale score as a MIDI file that will play back as follows:
--standard triplets: as written
--dotted 8th/16th combinations: as swing eighths (2:1) instead of as written (3:1)
--regular eighths: as swing eighths (2:1) instead of as written (1:1)
I have much experience using the playback swing settings to play notated regular eighths as swing eighths, which carries over fine when files are saved as MIDI. However, I'm not experienced with altering the playback of the dotted 8th/16th combinations without having to change the notation. I have fiddled with the Human Playback features that would seem to be relevant, but they do not change that playback rhythm from the notated 3:1 to the desired 2:1. Alternatively, if playback techniques will not work, would appreciate your advice on whether you can change a rhythmic figure (dotted 8th/16th) globally when the pitches are not the same throughout. Thanks very much.
Kathryn Schneider, J.D.
Musical Director, City Bar Chorus
New York City
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing swing rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or editor is adhering to a fifty-year-old convention, jazz rhythms are written most clearly these days as ordinary eighths. When notated that way, Finale can put any amount of swing you want on the eighths, just in the Playback window controls, while playing back triplets as written. I'm not sure how it deals with dotted-eighth/sixteenths in that situation, but I assume that it is not acceptable to you. I would not imagine that it plays them back as triplets.

I am far from being a fan of Human Playback, but this seems like it might work (not tested by me.)

First of all, try applying Human Playback in the Playback window. Use the jazz setting.

If this is no good (I suspect it only applies to eighths, not your dotted-eight/sixteenths) try this:

In Mass Edit, select all.
Under Plugins>New for 2005, select Apply Human Playback.
Click Apply Specific Elements.
Click More Settings: Select.
I think what you are looking for is Adjust 8th and Dotted 16th/Triplet. This does not seem to be correctly named, but no matter. If the default doesn't do what you want, try messing around with these settings.
You will probably get a message at some point telling you to set Human Playback to none. Go ahead and click OK.

Hope this helps. Also read the manual - Chapter 39: Playback under Swing Playback.

If this doesn't work, you can export a MIDI file from Finale, import it into a full-fledged sequencing program, apply one of the logical edits (depends on the program how it is implemented) to only shift 4th sixteenths a sixteenth earlier. Re-import the file into Finale, where all those dotted-eight/sixteenths will now be even eighths, and apply Swing from the playback window. All should be well, except that the playback file will look hopeless. No matter, it is only for playback!

By the way, you didn't ask, but the swing feel might be more realistic at a tempo faster than medium slow if you ask for a SMALLER percentage swing than even the light swing setting gives you. You can experiment with different values in the Playback control window. Pure triplets tends to sound real hokey except at the slowest tempos.

Christopher___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?

Kurt,
Give it a try. I'll check them out, and report back.
Christopher
On Feb 27, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote:
Christopher,
thanks for the answer. I could send you some midi files that won't 
work for me - maybe they will work for you?

Kurt
At 12:34 27.02.2005, you wrote:
On Feb 26, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote:
At 15:22 26.02.2005, you wrote:
When I import a midi file into Finale, the drums won't appear. 
Finale is creating a drums staff, but it remains empty. I tried 
this out using several midi files. The pity is the main reason ARE 
the drums - I am arranging some funk stuff and hoped I could take 
the drums out of a midi file and transcribe the rest myself.
I isolated the drum part - still an empty space in Finale (2005b, 
also 2004).
I changed the channel of all events - still empty (why?)
I tried other midi files including a drum part - won't work.

I searched Coda's site for help - nothing to be found
Why can Finale import no drum parts?
Kurt
I didn't answer because I've never run across this. Finale imports 
all of my drum parts perfectly (well, normally, anyhow!) You can even 
specify a percussion map like General Midi Input so that the low C2 
for bass drum shows up correctly on the first space, etc.

I'm afraid this might be a question for tech support.
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing

In a message dated 02/28/2005 12:42:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing 
swing
rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you
almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or
editor is adhering to a fifty-year-old convention, jazz rhythms are
written most clearly these days as ordinary eighths. When notated that
way, Finale can put any amount of swing you want on the eighths, just
in the Playback window controls, while playing back triplets as
written. I'm not sure how it deals with dotted-eighth/sixteenths in
that situation, but I assume that it is not acceptable to you. I would
not imagine that it plays them back as triplets.

I am far from being a fan of Human Playback, but this seems like it
might work (not tested by me.)
First of all, try applying Human Playback in the Playback window. Use
the jazz setting.
If this is no good (I suspect it only applies to eighths, not your
dotted-eight/sixteenths) try this:
In Mass Edit, select all.
Under PluginsNew for 2005, select Apply Human Playback.
Click Apply Specific Elements.
Click More Settings: Select.
I think what you are looking for is Adjust 8th and Dotted 
16th/Triplet.
  This does not seem to be correctly named, but no matter. If the
default doesn't do what you want, try messing around with these
settings.
You will probably get a message at some point telling you to set Human
Playback to none. Go ahead and click OK.

Hope this helps. Also read the manual - Chapter 39: Playback under
Swing Playback.
If this doesn't work, you can export a MIDI file from Finale, import 
it
into a full-fledged sequencing program, apply one of the logical edits
(depends on the program how it is implemented) to only shift 4th
sixteenths a sixteenth earlier. Re-import the file into Finale, where
all those dotted-eight/sixteenths will now be even eighths, and apply
Swing from the playback window. All should be well, except that the
playback file will look hopeless. No matter, it is only for playback!

By the way, you didn't ask, but the swing feel might be more realistic
at a tempo faster than medium slow if you ask for a SMALLER percentage
swing than even the light swing setting gives you. You can 
experiment
with different values in the Playback control window. Pure triplets
tends to sound real hokey except at the slowest tempos.

Thanks, Christopher. 
 
I have already tried the Adjust dotted 8th/16th option, but it seems 
the dotted 8th/16th figures continue to play back in a 3:1 rather than 
2:1 ratio.  As I initially posted, I am familiar with the swing 
playback feature, which of course works fine when the notation is in 
eighths rather than dotted 8th/16th format.  

 
I always choose Light swing in playback mode.  Is there an easy way 
to choose an even lighter form (other than through the MIDI tool)?

 
Yes, light is as swingy as I ever want it to be, too! In the Playback 
window, when you choose light, there is a number that appears 
afterwards (75 on my Mac version). You can edit this number to be even 
smaller to make the swing even more even.


I don't have a sequencing program, so it appears I may be stuck 
manually converting those dotted 8th/16th figures into even eighths.  
I know that in Finale NoteMover mode you can do search and replace for 
certain pitches with certain rhythms.  Is it possible to do a global 
search and replace in Finale 2005 for certain rhythmic figures (i.e., 
dotted 8th/16th) when those figures have different pitches throughout 
the piece? 

 
Kathy
There very well may be a search and replace function somewhere in the 
plugins, but I am not familiar with those that I don't use.  Maybe 
under Note, Beam and Rest EditingRhythmic Subdivisions? It looks 
likely.

Try tech support as well. They are very responsive (if a bit slow at 
times.)

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Mail problem, was Re: [Finale] Playback of Dotted 8th/16th as Standard Swing

On Feb 28, 2005, at 8:41 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
In a message dated 02/28/2005 12:42:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Part of the problem is the notation you are dealing with; writing 
swing
rhythms as dotted-eighth/sixteenth is a very old notation, and you
almost never see it any more in modern works. Unless the arranger or


One more thing I forgot to mention, unrelated to your problem.
In Mail in Mac OSX, I can't reply to your message! The reply window 
refuses to come up through command-r or the Reply item in the mene, and 
I ended up copying your text, address and subject into a new message. 
It's only YOUR message; other messages reply fine. The behaviour is 
identical even after restarting Mail, and after rebooting my Mac. 
However, after restarting Mail, I see all the attempts I made to reply, 
but without quoted text.

Weird, or what?
Anybody else out there with Mail can confirm? This only applies to your 
most recent message, not the first one.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT-Non-responsive MIDI keys

On Feb 28, 2005, at 10:11 AM, Henry Howey wrote:
A couple of keys on my EDIROL PCR-31 keyboard are not making a 
circuit. Is there a spray or other means to (I assume) de-oxidize the 
contacts for a better response?
--

I don't know what kind of key contacts are on the Edirol, but there are 
two basic kinds: metal leaf switches and rubber domes. If yours has 
metal leaf switches, then a spray contact cleaner (available at any 
electronics store) may work. You would have to open it up to expose the 
contacts, which may be quite a job. If you have rubber dome switches, 
the spray will not only not do any good, but will accelerate the decay 
of the rubber and might make a whole section inoperable.

It's possible that the problem is electronic, rather than mechanical. 
There is a pattern to how the keys are laid out in the circuit board, 
and if a number of keys stopped working at the same time (even ones 
that are not adjacent) then perhaps a diode somewhere went south on 
you, or there is a broken solder joint. I'm handy with a solder gun and 
volt-ohm-milliammeter, but this one would be beyond me. Experts only at 
this point.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Layers vs. Voices

On Feb 28, 2005, at 3:59 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote:
But I guess there are many things in Finale that can be done 
differently - from entering notes (not just with different tools, also 
in different ways) until formatting and printout. There are also 
people who like lyrics mass edit, which I cannot understand since I 
like typing into score much better.

The thing I don't like about typing lyrics into score is that the 
cursor doesn't move intelligently to the next note, instead it moves to 
the second of two tied notes, to rests, etc. With opt-click assignment 
(Mac, PC is alt-click) the lyrics all jump over the tied notes and 
rests intelligently to attach to the next real note.

I also tend to mess up the order of the lyrics with TYpe Into Score. 
Bleah. If I was more organised, I might like it better.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: Mail problem


On Feb 28, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

On 28 Feb 2005, at 8:50 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Anybody else out there with Mail can confirm? This only applies to your most recent message, not the first one.

This has been a problem for me with a number of people using AOL mail.  I can only reply to their messages if they haven't quoted anybody.  If their message contains a quote, then the reply button doesn't work.  This is a very strange glitch -- not sure what's causes it -- but so far I've only run into it when replying to people with AOL addresses.

- Darcy



Thanks Darcy!

Your response prompted me to embark on a search, and I found this answer on the Apple discussions:

Allan Sampson1 
Level 4 

 inline: webx.gif 

Joined: May, 2003 
 Posts: 7268
 San Antonio, Texas 
This is a problem when replying to or forwarding a message recieved from an AOL user with a Windows AOL Optimized version. 

With the message open and before replying to or forwarding the message, at the menu bar go to View > Message and select Plain Text Alternative. 

This should resolve the problem.


Me again.

Wacky!

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?

On Mar 1, 2005, at 3:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Kurt,
There are a couple of things going on with your midi files.

Kurt,
Karen is the all-knowing, all-seeing queen of MIDI files. She nailed 
exactly what was going on, and then some. There is nothing I can add to 
what she said, except to genuflect in her direction, mouth agape in 
wonder.


You can also choose to set up percussion staves here (including a 
percussion map...which Christopher Smith is a whiz at doing so maybe 
you can pick his brain for this.  :-)

Aww, shucks again! Actually, I am no whiz, I just waded through the 
documentation with a pith helmet and a machete. Seriously, all you have 
to remember is to check the Use these notes button, and the rest is 
messing around until it works.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Midifiles - why no drum parts?

On Mar 1, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote:
Hi Christopher,
At 16:44 01.03.2005, you wrote:
Karen is the all-knowing, all-seeing queen of MIDI files. She nailed 
exactly what was going on, and then some. There is nothing I can add 
to what she said, except to genuflect in her direction, mouth agape 
in wonder.
Yeah, I guess you're right (*genuflect*)...;-)
To which I add another (*genuflect*)

Aww, shucks again! Actually, I am no whiz, I just waded through the 
documentation with a pith helmet and a machete. Seriously, all you 
have to remember is to check the Use these notes button, and the 
rest is messing around until it works.
The general midi drums setting works quite fine for me. I only had to 
define an other note head for the open hihat, the rest worked right 
away...

Glad to hear it! See, everyone, there ISN'T such a big deal to it!
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004

On Mar 1, 2005, at 12:39 PM, d. collins wrote:
If MakeMusic would consider giving us backwards compatibility (at 
least one version), no one would one have to run that kind of risk. 
But, after reading the interviews on Jari's site, I realize the 
chances of seeing this are more than slim. Too bad. Finale is one of 
the very rare programs to change its format every year and to offer no 
backwards compatibility. A real nuisance, in my opinion. This seems to 
be a marketing strategy to prompt users to upgrade. I'm convinced it 
backfires in many cases, especially for those working with people who 
used localized versions.

I'm convinced it has nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do 
with the format actually NEEDING to change as they add new features, 
plus a lack of programming funding since the user base is so small. 
Nothing Machiavellian going on here, I'm sure.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Tied note starting a coda

On Feb 27, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Feb 26, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Greetings collected wisdom.
I know how to start a second ending with a tied note, but how do I 
start a coda with a tied note? The note in question is both tied over 
from the previous measure AND tied to the next measure, so my old 
kludge of tying it right then editing the tie in Special Tools to go 
backwards won't work.
Create a unison in a second layer, tie both notes and kludge one of 
them.


Thanks, Andrew, that seems to be the easiest solution.
I just heard back from Gary in MacSupport; and that was the solution he 
suggests as well.

I answered back that perhaps opt = on the Mac should create a backwards 
tie on ANY note, whether or not it starts a second ending. This would 
be a Martha Stewart-like Good Thing, IMHO.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] FYI

On Mar 1, 2005, at 5:51 PM, shirling  neueweise wrote:
the shape designer can hold at least 11488 shapes... in case you 
wanted to know.   i didn't particularly want to know, but just got a 
new score to work on, containing hundreds upon hundreds of copies of 
the same metatool-assigned articulations and shape expressions.

HOLY METATOOL, BATMAN! That has to be a new record! chuckle
I would send that one on to MacSupport, just for a laugh.
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Another Finale shortcut (OS X)

On Mar 2, 2005, at 3:48 AM, Jonathan Smith wrote:
This baffles me also. The 3 selection check boxes you get on 'copy and 
filter' put smart shapes and score expressions into the same category, 
therefore NOT allowing any real filtering. This destroys the whole 
idea of having a filter in the first place if you ask me - as you 
can't.

BTW, if you hold down opt and shift while in the edit menu you get to 
do the filter to a clip file, but this still doesn't give you the 
result of filtering out any score expression but leaving in the smart 
shapes.

You are absolutely right.

Another thing that I find confusing is the reference to the smart 
shapes (attached to measures) which is in the first check box and then 
the smart shapes (attached to notes) which is in the third check box, 
which you actually get into and can make selections from. What's the 
difference here?

I can explain this. Note-attached Smart Shapes are usually slurs, 
glisses, trills, etc, which are similar to articulations or 
note-attached text expressions for me. Measure-attached Smart Shapes 
are hairpins, which is what one usually wants to copy along with 
measure-attached text expressions, however not brackets, pedal 
markings, 8va signs, which are the other measure-attached Smart Shapes. 
Perhaps there should be a separate option to copy hairpins rather 
than all measure-attached Smart Shapes.


I reckon Make Music has made an error in this menu item, because if 
you highlight a measure with Mass Mover and go to Mass Edit menu to 
select 'Copy Measure Items' you get to select all the different items 
from the lists under both Measure Items and Entry Items - something I 
use a lot when copying music across staves within the same file (in 
fact I would love this selection to be enabled and 'saved' as a 
preference...and yes, I've requested it to MM many times!)). I believe 
that this should happen under the filter menu choice but doesn't - 
probably a bug.

Another annoyance, one which I have written up to MM, contains a 
similar fault when you use metatool 2 (explode music) with Mass Mover. 
You'll get staff expressions and slurs that go across to the 'expolded 
parts but not any hairpins - strange, but a bug also I think?

This is one of the reasons TG Tools takes the place of the Finale 
built-in functions. If I would have this kind of fussiness to deal with 
afterwards, I use TG Tools instead, which saves me mucho time.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] inconsistency with margins while printing

On Mar 2, 2005, at 2:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi everyone---I'm printing a big band score using landscape format, 8 measures to a page. I found that the score prints the first 9 pages with about a 3 or 4 inch margin on the right side of the page, which means the 8 measures are slightly crowded. The last 8 pages of the score prints with about a half inch margin on the right side and looks absolutely perfect.

Why the discrepancy? Thanks in advanceBrian___

It's normal for the first system of a score to have a larger indent to accommodate the complete instrument names. I can't speculate as to why the first 9 are like this (maybe you used an old score as a template that only had 9 pages, all set like this?), but it is easy to change. There are two possibilities: that the page margins are different for the first 9 pages, or that the system margins are different.

You can tell at a glance which one you have to change, because the page margins show up as dotted lines, too as soon as you select the Page Layout Tool. If the left-hand Page Margin line is 3 or 4 inches over too far, then that is the problem. If the left-hand system handle is over too far, then the System Margins is the problem.

This is to change the System Margins:

Page Layout tool>Page Layout Menu>Systems>Edit Margins.
Go to the system that looks right to you, as you will be copying its settings.
Click somewhere inside the dotted-line box around the system. Let's say that it is System 10 (on page 10, in your score.)
In the box that opened up when you first selected Edit Margins, it says Values for System 10. These are the values that you are going to apply.
Change System> enter 1 through 9. If you want to leave the first system indented, enter 2 through 9.
Click Apply.
All should be well now.

If you find you need to change just ONE system (like the first one) you can just drag the upper-left-hand handle to the right or left to change the indent. Use my method to change more than one, to be consistent.

This is to change the Page Margins:

Actually, I don't need to go completely through it, because it is the same dialogue box as the System Margins. Just select first:
Page Layout tool>Page Layout Menu>Systems>Edit Page margins
and everything else is the same.

Oh, yes, afterwards Update Layout while on Page 1, just to be sure!

Christopher ___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] JW Divider for OSX

My mother thanks you, my father thanks you, my clients thank you, and 
me, well, that goes without saying...

No it doesn't.
THANK YOU!
We love you, and if you ever need your car washed, baby sitting, a hot 
meal, a beer, you know where to go.

Christopher
On Mar 2, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Yay
THANK YOU, TOBIAS.
(JW Space Systems is coming too, right?  Please???)
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 02 Mar 2005, at 3:12 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Hello!
Tobias has just ported JW Divider to OSX (Finale 2004-2005 for Mac).
http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/
According to Tobias, the small arrow controls don't fully work, so 
don't report that.

Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes

On Mar 2, 2005, at 4:58 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Yes, under MacOS, the window position is supposed to be written to pref
file every time an app closes.  Why Finale doesn't do that, is beyond 
me :-(

I had a hard time with the new coloured buttons in OSX when I first 
started. I couldn't figure out what they were supposed to do, as they 
all behaved differently in different applications. Darcy told me that 
the green button was supposed to maximise the window to the borders of 
the window contents, but that is not true with the two apps I use most 
often: Appleworks and Finale. Appleworks always makes the window the 
size of an 8-1/2 X 11 page, no matter what the contents are or what 
magnification they are at, and Finale always mazimises to the size of 
the desktop, no matter what the contents of the window are. Safari 
seems to depend on what site I am on.

No wonder I had trouble at first!
Chirstopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison

On Mar 2, 2005, at 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Greetings all,
mailing list newbie here. Glad to have found this.
The latest version of Finale I am familiar with is 2002, having refused to upgrade beyond that until they fixed some of the basic notational problems in Finale that always seemed to get overlooked -- the eternal problems with tuplet placement,

Tuplets are greatly improved with 2005. Still a couple of small issues with the number placement, especially with large intervals under the tuplet, but tuplets that start with a rest or a low note align WAY better than before.

hairpins,

What did you see wrong with the hairpins? They behave perfectly well as far as I can see. I use TG Tools plugins to help align everything, so maybe I'm spoiled. Automatic expression placement is new and fantastic as well.

disappearing measures,

I've never seen that. What is that? I have occasionally seen measures APPEAR to vanish, but that is usually because I had a multi-measure rest where I later entered notes, and forgot to turn off the rest.

etc -- in favor of composer's assistant nonsense. As someone who looks at these programs largely as notational tools, I got frustrated. In any case, I stuck it out with 2002 until recently, when I was finally convinced by friends to try Sibelius. I've been working with version 3.1.3 for about 2 months.
Certainly things are superior in Sibelius when it comes to the user interface and certain formatting issues (at least in comparison to Finale 2002). But at the end of the day I am most concerned about what comes out of my printer, and Sibelius doesn't even begin to approach the professional look that I can get (after much hair-pulling) out of Finale. And I am frustrated again, because the response in the Sibelius forums is constantly no, you can't do that (yet).
Anyway: I'm wondering if I can get some feedback on where things stand with Finale 2005 as regards the many problems I am familiar with in F2002, and I'm wondering what the NEW frustrations might be with 2005 (again, as regards notation -- I do not use these programs' composing tools or sound-file generating tools.) At this point I'd considering upgrading if I thought that 2005 was honestly better than 2002.

You sound like a fairly serious user. Many of the issues with Finale's built-in functionality are addressed with 3rd-party plugins, some of which will no doubt make you clap your hands and giggle like a child when you first use them (that was my reaction, in any case). They are definitely worth the shareware price, and the time it will take to learn them, though you can try them out first for free. This list is a great resource as well. Many times when I have been frustrated by some seeming lack of functionality, someone on this list has just the trick to make it doable.

If you have specific questions, we can answer them.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] New Real Book font

It was Finale for all the Real Books after Vol 1. The font was a custom 
font by the copyist, and they are guarding it jealously (I asked!)

If you compare the Vol 1 to say Vol 2, the quality of the hand copying 
in Vol 1 is quite astonishing, IMHO. I don't think I have ever seen 
anything quite like it in a jazz idiom. Compact, well-spaced, an 
excellent eye for compromises in a very dense page that is nevertheless 
clearly laid out - it set a new standard, just in time to be supplanted 
by computer copying. 8-(

Christopher
On Mar 2, 2005, at 9:27 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Roger,
The first New Real Book was hand-copied.  Subsequent editions (Vol. 
2, Vol. 3, the Standards Real Book, etc.) were done with some kind of 
music notation software, possibly Finale.

However, their fonts were developed in-house, and they are proprietary 
to Sher Music Co.  They are not available to the general public.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 02 Mar 2005, at 8:52 PM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone know which is the font used in the New Real Books?
Thanks,
Roger
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison

On Mar 2, 2005, at 10:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 2 Mar 2005 at 20:18, Christopher Smith wrote:
disappearing measures,
I've never seen that. What is that? I have occasionally seen measures
APPEAR to vanish, but that is usually because I had a multi-measure
rest where I later entered notes, and forgot to turn off the rest.
Well, that does strike me as the kind of problem that no intelligent
application should allow to happen. Notes in measures should
automatically break multi-measure rests, without the user being
required to do anything.
I'm not sure I want ANOTHER automatic sweep through a subroutine 
slowing down the performance of the program, like Auto Update Layout, 
Auto Update Hyphens and Smart Word Extensions and the like. Especially 
given how often this problem (if it is one) would show up. I've only 
seen it myself a couple of times, and I am a heavy user who revises 
works constantly.


I also think that staff optimization should not be something that you
have to remove and then re-apply. If you insert new measures, or
insert data in previously empty measures (or you clear/hide
previously populated measures), if you've got optimization turned on,
it should automatically cause the system to re-optimize. I
Re-optimize to what parameters? There's a whole window of options there 
for that process. I don't want to be asked every time, and I don't want 
Finale choosing the parameters for me. I would rather do it myself.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] JW Divider for OSX

Hmm, it shows up fine for me, in all window sizes in Safari. When I 
make the window very narrow, it moves off the right border, but I have 
a scroll bar that appears so I can get to it.

Apparently Firefox (which operates very similarly to Safari) handles 
web pages that Safari has problems with. I am presently experimenting 
with it and am suitably impressed.

Christopher
PS, Jari and Tobias, the plugin works as flawlessly as ever! Thanks!
On Mar 3, 2005, at 5:55 AM, Hans Swinnen wrote:
Hello Jari,
First of all, a big thank you to both.
One little problem however: the new added column Finale 2004-2005 for 
Mac doesn't show up in Safari. I searched desperately for a link on 
that page. Till I got the idea switching to IE (which I almost never 
use) and all went fine.

Is this fixable?
Hans
Jari Williamsson wrote:
Hello!
Tobias has just ported JW Divider to OSX (Finale 2004-2005 for Mac).
http://www.jwmusic.nu/freeplugins/
According to Tobias, the small arrow controls don't fully work, so 
don't report that.
Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes

On Mar 2, 2005, at 9:01 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chris,
Presumably the Zoom button in AppleWorks doesn't zoom to an 8.5x11 
page if you have a different page size selected for the active 
document?  If not, that's a bug.

With Safari, the zoom button takes you to the minimum width specified 
by the web page, and the minimum height needed to display the site's 
entire contents (or full-screen height if, as with most websites, you 
need to scroll down to read it all).  If you click it again, it will 
normally toggle back to wherever it was before you hit the zoom 
button.

If any portion of the window has been dragged off-screen, the zoom 
button will also reposition the window so that it fits entirely on the 
screen.

You can test all of this on a web page that has a relatively narrow 
width and short height, like, for instance, the home page of:

http://davedouglas.com/
There's a good example of my confusion. The window goes to the minimum 
width, good. However, the height is about half of my screen, with a 
scroll bar appearing on the right, even though I am able to manually 
resize the window so that the entire contents appear WITHOUT a scroll 
bar. This does not appear to be the minimum height to display the 
page's contents?


I don't find this confusing at all.  Moreover, the behavior in OS X is 
for the most part extremely similar to the way the zoom button in Mac 
OS has always worked.  The widget *looks* different now (green circle 
instead of a square inside a box) but the behavior is virtually 
identical.  It's certainly identical behavior in Finale -- the zoom 
button works exactly the same in OS X as it did in OS 9 and earlier.

Yes, in Finale. Just not in AppleWorks, nor in a couple of other apps 
used often by me. I guess I was assuming that it would always work 
identically.


You'll notice that if you click the Zoom button in Mail, it always 
maximizes the window.  That's because modern plain-text emails don't 
have a fixed width -- they wrap to the user's window width.  Finale's 
behavior is similar -- it always maximizes when you click the Zoom 
button, because in scroll view, there's no fixed width, and Finale's 
programmers didn't want the Zoom button to behave differently 
depending on whether you are in scroll view or page view.  I'm fine 
with that, because all of my Finale windows are maximized all of the 
time.

What *is* broken is that Finale doesn't follow OS X conventions for 
remembering window placement, and for stacking (not cascading) new 
windows when the current (or default) window is maximized.  Quite 
apart from the fact that Finale ignores OS X conventions here, it's an 
incredible pain in the ass when you open up a set of 18 parts and have 
to maximize 17 of them.

I agree. There isn't a keyboard command for Maximise, is there?
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale Interface, palettes

On Mar 3, 2005, at 8:38 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Chris,
There's a good example of my confusion. The window goes to the 
minimum width, good. However, the height is about half of my screen, 
with a scroll bar appearing on the right, even though I am able to 
manually resize the window so that the entire contents appear WITHOUT 
a scroll bar. This does not appear to be the minimum height to 
display the page's contents?
What version of Safari/OS X are you using?  What's your window 
position and size before you click the Zoom button?  I don't get the 
behavior you describe.  For me, clicking the zoom button on this page 
causes the window to resize so that no scroll bars are visible.

Starting from a window larger than the page, clicking the green button 
makes the page smaller than the content. Starting from a window 
manually resized to be smaller than the content makes the zoom behave 
as expected. I am using the latest updates of both OS and Safari.


I don't find this confusing at all.  Moreover, the behavior in OS X 
is for the most part extremely similar to the way the zoom button in 
Mac OS has always worked.  The widget *looks* different now (green 
circle instead of a square inside a box) but the behavior is 
virtually identical.  It's certainly identical behavior in Finale -- 
the zoom button works exactly the same in OS X as it did in OS 9 and 
earlier.

Yes, in Finale.
And in the Finder, and in MS Word, and in iTunes, and in most 
instances I can think of...
I guess I just don't find myself maximising windows in those 
situations. Probably because once I set the windows to a size I like, 
the app remembers them for the next time. 8-(

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Single Pitch plugin

On Mar 3, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
If you knew anything about the convoluted way Finale stores pitch 
information, this would not only seem not an oddity but rather all too 
predictable. I learned years ago always to use major key signatures, 
because apparently they are the only ones that programmers routinely 
test their code against. Finale itself has a history of bugs related 
to minor key signatures.

Is there some downside to using major key signatures? The key of Eb 
major looks exactly the same as that for c minor. Is there some 
advantage to setting the key to c minor that you don't get with Eb 
major?

If you modulate from a major key to a minor key with a different number 
of sharps or flats, you don't have to reset your Enharmonic Spelling 
tables.

That's the only advantage I can think of.
On the other hand, if you enter a modulation from Eb major to C minor, 
the key signature stubbornly re-appears as if the number of flats has 
just changed. Grr.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Single Pitch plugin

On Mar 3, 2005, at 10:16 AM, James Gilbert wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Christopher Smith wrote:
On the other hand, if you enter a modulation from Eb major to C minor,
the key signature stubbornly re-appears as if the number of flats has
just changed. Grr.
See
Document options-Key Signature-Redisplay key signature if only mode is
changing

That's it!
Heh, heh, I knew there was something...
Christopher
P.S., So why is this option checked by default? Just wondering...
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004

On Mar 3, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Simon Troup wrote:
Still, considering the work that goes into templates and libraries, 
I'm suprised that submission of finale files isn't a hot topic. I'd be 
very concerned that composers wouldn't gut the files and use them as 
templates, then just call me in for the difficult stuff!

It IS a hot topic. The sentiment among the pros on the list is 
generally that the Finale files are work product, (while the paper or 
PDF copy is the deliverable) and a copyist shouldn't give them away 
unless adequately compensated.

Actually, I don't care enough about the secrecy of my libraries even if 
I have spent a lot of time on them, and I DO give them away to anyone 
who asks, particularly colleagues and students. If they like my 
settings and copy them, then the world just may be a cleaner, neater, 
more understandable place for musicians around that person, and I am 
comfortable with that. I have benefitted from more experienced fellow 
Finale users sharing their settings, techniques and libraries, and I 
will freely pass them on for the benefit of the world at large (yes my 
ego really is that big!)

What I WON'T do, though, is give a client the work product files so 
that he or she can make an end run around me to another contractor, or 
change my content without my permission (actually the latter is more my 
concern.) This is the same as a photographer not giving away the 
negatives to a client. You have to go back to him for more prints, or 
compensate him for the work he will undoubtedly lose from giving them 
to you. In reality, I use so many custom fonts that my Finale files 
would be unusable on another computer anyway.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004

On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Simon Troup wrote:
Actually, I don't care enough about the secrecy of my libraries even
if I have spent a lot of time on them, and I DO give them away to
anyone who asks, particularly colleagues and students. If they like
my settings and copy them, then the world just may be a cleaner,
neater, more understandable place for musicians around that person,
and I am comfortable with that. I have benefitted from more
experienced fellow Finale users sharing their settings, techniques
and libraries, and I will freely pass them on for the benefit of the
world at large (yes my ego really is that big!)
That's great, and I applaud the intent, but I'd be worried that the 
files would be passed to a spotty teenager paid a little over 12 grand 
for doing the job in house half as well for people who frankly aren't 
very good at seeing the value added elegance that I provide in the 
first place. (Breethe).


But if the spotty teenager can't provide the elegance you can, then 
your settings aren't doing him any good, are they? I'm speaking of 
using settings in ANOTHER work, not editing work you have already done. 
Keep those for yourself, by all means!

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] backwards conversion from 2005 to 2004

On Mar 3, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Simon Troup wrote:
I was however _fascinated_ in the topic as some peoples relationships 
with their clients were very far removed from my own experience - 
Dennis and others have been talking about issues which simply haven't 
arisen for me in ten years in the business.

Umm, like what? Just wondering.
Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] instrument.txt file

On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:27 PM, shirling  neueweise wrote:
3) how do i override the automatic selection of alternate notehead 
fonts and percussion notation style with (single-line) percussion 
instruments (eg. triangle)?  somewhere someone has defined the 
functioning of StaffType and i want access!

To the best of my knowledge, that info is not accessible. When I first 
asked on the subject of drum parts years ago when the Setup Wizard 
first appeared, I was told by tech support that the feature was 
intended for newbies, and was never designed to have the control that 
manual score setup was supposed to have. I hope they will change their 
minds about that.


is it possible to set the stem direction to always up somewhere in 
the instrument.txt file?  i see some stuff in square brackets in that 
file (eg.  [TAB - No Staff Name], [TAB With Stems]) that seems to have 
an impact on the look of the individual staves, so i assume there is a 
list of commands somewhere that noone has told us (me?) about...

Once again, that info is most likely not available. Try macsupport just 
to be sure, though. I think they are getting the idea that everyone is 
using the Setup Wizard.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Finale/Sibelius and Finale 2005/Finale 200x comparison

On Mar 4, 2005, at 5:32 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've also written a blog entry on this topic (Finale vs. Sibelius) on 
my
website, would be interested in your feedback:

Very nicely put, but for my money (all 0$ of it!) I would have liked 
more detail than just hairpin openings, particularly any details that 
might pertain to the accurate and readable, and not much else crowd. 
These are the ones I have to convince when talking about notation 
programs.

BTW, in your second-last line in the blog, about getting out of Cassis, 
did you mean to write Maybe I can find that hansom cab driver again 
or did you really find him handsome? I wouldn't have been confused at 
all except for a previous line about Sibelius being the knockout 
bombshell in the tight dress  talk about your mixed messages! No 
complaints from my end either way  I am only interested in the idea 
that you want to express being clearly put across. 8-)

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Fooled by a measure expression's playback!

I just lost 20 minutes on a foolish problem.
I am writing accompaniments to choral arrangements this week, and I 
tried to play back a file as a test for when the choir director is 
coming over. I don't use play back very often, but this was a special 
case. Everything was fine (or as fine as can be expected) until the 
last seven measures of one work, when it inexplicably started playing 
back in swing!

I checked the Human Playback controls in the Playback window, I even 
ran the Human Playback plugin to see if I could remove something, I 
checked the MIDI tool, as this used to be the way to accomplish swing 
playback, I set Rhythm to every percentage of the original I could 
imagine, still nothing.

Then I saw the Slower staff marking over the seventh last measure. 
Could I have edited another marking to create that one? I checked the 
playback on the expression, and sure enough, it was set to play back as 
Swing. I set it to None, and all was well.

ARRGHHH!
It just goes to show, practise safe staff expressions, everyone, or 
some unknown bug may infect you with strange symptoms...

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Fooled by a measure expression's playback!

On Mar 4, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Harold Owen wrote:
Christopher Smith writes:
I just lost 20 minutes on a foolish problem.
I am writing accompaniments to choral arrangements this week, and I 
tried to play back a file as a test for when the choir director is 
coming over. I don't use play back very often, but this was a special 
case. Everything was fine (or as fine as can be expected) until the 
last seven measures of one work, when it inexplicably started playing 
back in swing!

I checked the Human Playback controls in the Playback window, I even 
ran the Human Playback plugin to see if I could remove something, I 
checked the MIDI tool, as this used to be the way to accomplish swing 
playback, I set Rhythm to every percentage of the original I could 
imagine, still nothing.

Then I saw the Slower staff marking over the seventh last measure. 
Could I have edited another marking to create that one? I checked the 
playback on the expression, and sure enough, it was set to play back 
as Swing. I set it to None, and all was well.

ARRGHHH!
It just goes to show, practise safe staff expressions, everyone, or 
some unknown bug may infect you with strange symptoms...
Dear Christopher,
I've noticed that when I use the Apply Human Playback plugin there is 
always an expression added at the beginning that is set to Swing for 
playback but the setting is zero (unless you had chosen Jazz as the 
playback option). The handle shows up, on the screen. I often use it 
for other MIDI settings (such as CC-1 when I'm using GPO). Maybe that 
expression shows up in your file where the swing begins, but this 
time with a setting other than zero.

Go figure!
Yes, I saw it there after I tried the Human Playback plugin, but 
removed it when I noticed it had no effect. Now that I know what caused 
the problem, it WOULD have had effect if it had come AFTER the Slower 
expression (which was on the 3rd beat of that measure.) The swing 
setting of the Slower expression was cancelling out the no swing, but 
two beats later.

Ah, it's all so clear when you know. It's when you DON'T know that it 
kills...

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] String divisi

On Mar 4, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
On Mar 4, 2005, at 7:06 AM, Michael Cook wrote:
 There are many such instances in Strauss's works: he apparently 
explained to the players that if they imagined the note hard enough 
and looked as if they were playing it, nobody would hear the 
difference.
Wow!  I'll have to try that technique with my chorus

Doesn't work so well with bass trombone. I've tried it. Everyone 
noticed.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT Bass low B

2005-03-05 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 05 Mar 2005, at 11:18 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:
And John Denver is alleged to have used a scordatura tuning for his 
guitar, allowing him to play figurations that would have been 
unplayable in normal guitar tuning.
Not so unusual for guitarists.
Yes -- as Chuck said, that's a wee bit of an understatement.  John 
Denver is hardly an anomaly.  There are lots of Jimi Hendrix songs 
where both he and Noel Redding tune their entire instruments down a 
half step, drop D tuning was more standard than not for 1990's 
Seattle grunge bands (and is still widely used), Joni Mitchell has 
probably used more than fifty different alternate tunings in her songs 
over the course of her career, and pretty much everyone uses capos at 
one point or another.

And of course everyone's favourite country-jazz guitarist, Pat Metheny. 
Some of his chords, too, are positively unplayable on a normally-tuned 
instrument.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Chord symbol

2005-03-05 Thread Christopher Smith


On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Roger Julià Satorra wrote:

No, what I want is a Bb7 (9, +11, 13), it's easier to write C/Bb7, but not by
finale!

Roger


Darcy gave you good advice about getting what you want on paper. I would gently suggest that while

C
Bb7

might be easier for you, it might be harder to read for the players, especially if a perfectly usable standard chord symbol already exists in the form Bb13(#11).

In my own music, I only resort to polychords when a standard chord symbol DOESN'T exist (and, by the way, in this non-standardised jazz world, it is more common to consider slanted slash chords like

C/Bb

to indicate a chord with an alternate bass note, whereas the horizontal slash as I indicated first usually indicates a polychord.)

But, neither my interests nor Finale's limitations should stop you. In fact, you should write to tech support and mention that Finale should support suffixes on the bottom chord of polychords, as I have.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7

2005-03-05 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:48 PM, Ken Moore wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew 
Stiller
writes:

Scordatura is sometimes notated that way, and sometimes at the actual
pitch, the convention varying with time, place, and circumstance. Any
unorthodox tuning of a stringed instrument is scordatura regardless of
the notation.
OK, but since there seems to be no agreement on the orthodox tuning of
the fifth string of a double bass, I would count both B and C as
accordatura (following the argument that John Howell found in Grove).

Huh? As far as I know, a LOWER fifth string is overwhelmingly tuned to 
B  it's usually the 4th string that goes to low C with an extension or 
alternate tuning. A HIGHER 5th string is usually tuned to high C 
(written middle C). Did I misunderstand?

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Bass Trom

2005-03-07 Thread Christopher Smith

There are a few varieties of contrabass trombone that I know of.
One is pitched in BBb, has a double slide (four tubes instead of two), 
a single F trigger, and is played with a mouthpiece close to the size 
of a tuba mouthpiece (makes sense, as the tessitura is so similar. The 
model I am familiar with is made by Mirafon. This is the type that is 
played by Phil Teele on Toshiko Akiyoshi's contrabass trombone feature 
I Ain't Gonna Ask No More.

Another is pitched in F, with a single slide played with an extension 
(or not, if you have long arms like me), and often a valve lowering it 
a fourth. This instrument might seem similar to the bass trombone in G 
(hey, it's only a tone difference!), but the bore is more like the BBb 
contrabass (rather than the G bass, whose bore is close to a regular 
bass trombone) and sounds accordingly.

Then there is the cimbasso, which is kind of like a valve contrabass 
trombone. There doesn't appear to be a lot of standardisation with this 
instrument, but they are commonly pitched in F or Eb, and often have 
four to six valves, no hand slide. The configurations vary as well, 
from a flat-out valve trombone look to more of a 
euphonium-with-a-trombone-bell type of set-up. They often have pegs to 
support them, as they are so heavy, and it very well may have been this 
that you saw. This is the first page turned up by Google

http://www.wcwband.co.uk/cimbasso.htm
so you might recognize the instrument from the photo.
Christopher
On Mar 7, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Keith,
There is such a thing as a contrabass trombone.  One of the players in 
Maria Schneider's band plays it on her new record, so I suspect that's 
what you saw.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 07 Mar 2005, at 3:44 AM, Keith Helgesen wrote:
Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of 
Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli 
(obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most 
grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, 
but I suspect about 2000.  yes, folks TV programmes really are up to 
date here in OZ.


Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but 
I think not.

Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what 
appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to 
have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im 
sure I saw it correctly.


Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is 
it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only 
model.


Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ.

Keith Helgesen.
Director of Music, Canberra City Band.
Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587
Private Mob 0417-042171


--
 No virus found in this outgoing message.
 Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
 Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Bass Trombone (Brass Band)

2005-03-07 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 7, 2005, at 3:28 PM, Joe Laird wrote:
Hi Folks,
All this talk about bass trombones has got me wondering why the bass 
trombone is the only non-transposing brass instrument in the 
traditional British brass band.  As I understand it, the practice of 
transposing all the instruments in a brass band into either Eb or Bb 
and writing them in treble clef developed in England during the 
Industrial Revolution.  Why didn't the bass trombone follow the same 
convention?  I'm just now finishing the first piece I have written for 
brass band and find the unusual transposition interesting.

Joe
My (perhaps faulty) understanding of the tradition is to help keep all 
the instruments in the staff. A Bb transposed bass trombone would spend 
a lot of time below the staff. Add to that the additional worry of the 
traditional G home key of bass trombone, and things could get a bit 
hairy. Transposed cornet, alto, baritone, tuba etc. all use the same 
fingerings, so players can freely move between instruments of the same 
family with only chops to worry about rather than new fingerings. This 
doesn't affect tenor trombone, I know, but I have no explanation for 
that.

The alternative explanation is that those who choose to play bass 
trombone are simply more intelligent than most other brass players, and 
can deal with the different transposition. I subscribe to this theory 
myself, having chosen bass trombone at a young age. 8-)

Christopher
(who, as a mark of his intelligence, thought for years that blowing a 
pedal Bb would make the TV image shake, and only discovered late in 
life that it was actually his eyes that were shaking when playing loud 
and low.)

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Duplicate Hairpins

2005-03-08 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 8, 2005, at 9:01 AM, JD wrote:
on 3/7/05 10:16 PM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So -- any ideas (1) what is causing these duplicate hairpins to occur,
and (2) is there any reasonable way of getting rid of them?  I'm not
about to go through an existing document and try dragging each
individual hairpin to see if there's an identical one underneath.
Darcy,
The first act of the score I'm working on had 1000s of duplicate smart
shapes, including hairpins.  I deduced it back to simple copy and 
paste.  If
you C/P, not the option-click method, Finale will leave the SS in the 
target
measure and add in any new ones coming from the source.  I assembled 
about
10 Finale files into one score and did a ton of C/P in the process, 
using
the normal routine and Mass Mover.  My feeling is that is does make 
the file
bloated, in my case, the final score came in at nearly 4MB, which is 
huge
for Finale.

Darcy,
On occasion I implode a passage, re-voice it, then explode it back to 
its original staves. If the articulations were already attached, then 
my imploded staff has five articulations on every note, showing shadows 
where I might have nudged one. The way I get around this is to set Mass 
Edit to copy only articulations, and copy from one of the original 
staves that only has one articulation to my imploded staff. Then I can 
safely explode and every exploded staff only has one accent, like they 
are supposed to.

The reason I mention this is you may have a similar procedure available 
for Smart Shapes. If you go through and delete duplicates from ONE 
staff, then clear the hairpins from all the others, you can copy them 
relatively painlessly from the clean staff you created. To delete 
hairpins easily, I drag one off a bit (this will be the one I keep) 
drag around the handles for the others to make sure I select ALL of 
them, hit delete, then drag my saved one back into position again.

The smart shapes duplicate every time you perform a drag and drop copy, 
or a command-c command-v copy and paste, unless you have specifically 
set the Mass Edit not to copy these items. This is the same effect that 
occurs with staff expressions, like rehearsal letters. They get 
duplicated all over the friggin' place. Fortunately, they are easier to 
deal with. When I drag one away and delete the others (as I described 
above) I only have to hit Clear to restore the default positioning of 
the one remaining expression. You don't have this option with hairpins.

Does anyone else have these issues with the new copy behaviour? I hate 
it passionately.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s

2005-03-09 Thread Christopher Smith


At 07:41 AM 3/9/05 -0500, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Just FYI -- in case you've never heard the original version, with the
Paul Whiteman band and Gershwin at the Piano, you can listen to it
here:
http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Whiteman/rhapblua.ram
There is also a version recorded in 1927 using electrical recording
equipment, with much improved sound quality (much improved being a
relative term, of course -- we're still talking about 1927, after all):
http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/Whiteman/rhapsody.ram
It looks like (after a couple of mentions) that many consider Rhapsody 
to be a great work. Although I accept that it was groundbreaking, 
influential, got a lot of press, yada-yada, I question whether it was 
really great. It was rushed off after Gershwin had forgotten that he 
was supposed to write it, and it doesn't really have the cohesion that 
one would expect from a major work, even from a popular composer. It's 
just kind of a bunch of nice tunes strung together rather primitively, 
with a couple of motives sequenced without really any development per 
se, with a competent orchestration for jazz band with strings. Nothing 
really great about it, IMHO.

For great I would definitely rank his Piano Concerto above Rhapsody, 
and I would absolutely put Porgy and Bess into the ranks of great, 
as it not only accomplished everything he was trying to do with 
Rhapsody, but the structure, development, and cohesion are right up 
there with other operas. Unfortunately, he wrote it in the 30's, so it 
doesn't fit your category.

For Gershwin works from the 20's  I would possibly include I Got 
Rhythm for its subsequent ubiquity (rather than its greatness), and 
Fascinating Rhythm because he got it so right, even more right than 
Charleston got it right.

It was good to see a mention of Louis Armstrong's Hot Five and Hot 
Seven recordings. They, above all others in the jazz domain, deserve a 
mention. Never before or since have so few sides influenced so many, 
even including Kind of Blue.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Authentication schemes

On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:21 AM, d. collins wrote:
Noel Stoutenburg écrit:
I've found it necessary, on account of hard drive failure, to 
reinstall 2k4 three times, and the biggest inconvenience I 
experienced was having to wait until the Finale office opened later 
in the morning, to call and request a new authentication code.  
Considering that reinstalling the software more than one working day, 
there was really not an inconvenience here, nor was I, IMO, 
victimized.
I agree with you. You aren't victimized by the authentication process 
in itself. But you will be victimized the day MM no longer supplies 
the new codes, and you can no longer reinstall your 2K4. And then it 
will be too late to do anything about it. You're satisfied with the 
idea of trashing the software you purchased (this could happen in 6 
months), of using Notepad to print your files and of waiting for some 
third party to produce compatible software (this is precisely how 
you're victimized: not by having to call to get a code, but by not 
being able to get one). I'm not.

Dennis
Well, strictly speaking, you can install 2004 and use it for 30 days 
before it refuses to run. That should give you enough time to call up, 
edit, and print any of your files.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s

On Mar 10, 2005, at 3:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Someone wrote:
That's an easy one -- Rhapsody in Blue isn't jazz.
I recently heard a discussion on this very subject - whether R in B 
was  jazz
or not. Several wildly different recordings were called upon as  
witnesses.

The conclusion was that when it was played by Jack  Splatt's Jazz Band 
it was
jazz and when it was played by Joe Soap's Symphony  Orchestra it 
wasn't.

All the best,
Lawrence
Very close, but more to the point  jazz isn't what you play or who 
plays it, it's HOW you play it. Every note that came out of Miles 
Davis' trumpet wasn't necessarily jazz (despite what everyone tries to 
tell us), but a whole bunch of them were, depending on how he 
approached it.

I think Marcus Robert's version of Rhapsody was jazz, or mostly so.
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s

On Mar 10, 2005, at 7:04 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 09 Mar 2005, at 5:30 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
  But I pretty much hate opera, so I'd best disqualify myself from 
*that* discussion.

Well, if you must know, I pretty much hate jazz.
You know, it strikes me that both Mark's attitude and mine are pretty 
characteristic.  The number of jazz musicians I know who are into 
opera is vanishingly small, and I've found very few classical singers 
who enjoy instrumental jazz.  The exceptions on the latter score tend 
to be light-voiced singers who do almost exclusively new music and 
hate traditional opera even more than I do.
This rule even seemed to hold for the other employees of the 
classical record store where I worked, who were mostly classical 
instrumentalists -- the ones who liked opera tended to be 
uninterested in instrumental jazz, and vice versa.
I wonder why that is?
They feel threatened by what they don't understand?

Huh? You'll have to explain further. It seems to me that not 
understanding some work would leave you cold, not hating it, and not 
threaten you at all. I feel much more threatened (as a jazz musician 
and jazz lover) by so-called smooth jazz which I understand all too 
well, and have to dance with, around, and to, way too often to suit me.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Authentication schemes

On Mar 10, 2005, at 9:29 AM, d. collins wrote:
Christopher Smith écrit:
Well, strictly speaking, you can install 2004 and use it for 30 days 
before it refuses to run. That should give you enough time to call 
up, edit, and print any of your files.
I don't know how closely you've been following this thread, but the 
discussion is precisely about the day where you can no longer call up 
because no-one will be answering. Then what do you do?

Dennis
I meant call up your files. I should have written ...enough time to 
open, edit, and print... The software works for 30 days without any 
contact with MakeMusic. When the thirty days are up, delete it and 
reinstall for another 30 days, if you need to. Probably after Finale 
goes under you will be creating your new works on some other software, 
so this should permit you to re-print and edit your old files.

I do this from time to time when I have to work on a strange computer. 
Usually it's only for a couple of days, but the 30-day grace period is 
very nice, and seems to be aimed precisely at the kind of user I am. 
Plus, if anyone else happens to see it there, they get to play with it 
until it lapses, which is pretty good advertising, I should say. I was 
first attracted to Finale in a similar way when I was working on a 
large arranging project with a colleague, and I learned how to enter 
with Speedy, which saved time instead of having him do everything. 
There was a time lapse, but I eventually bought Finale myself.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s

On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Just to clarify, I don't hate opera the way I hate, say, Celine Dion 
or Kenny G or Andrew Lloyd Webber or American Idol.  I hope that was 
clear.  It would be more accurate to say that opera leaves me cold -- 
with a handful of exceptions, I just don't find most operas satisfying 
either as music or (especially) as drama.  But that's just me.  I'm 
not making any sweeping value judgments, just expressing a personal 
preference.

Anyway, back to the 1920's -- any seconders for Wozzeck?
- Darcy
Yes, I would second Wozzeck. I saw a chamber orchestration (by John 
Rea) of it this summer at Orford (staged by Lorraine Pintal), which is 
rather a small hall, and it was just striking! I was familiar with the 
large version from recordings, but until you've seen it staged, holy 
toledo! And I don't even particularly like opera (notice I don't say I 
hate it!) but this was fantastic. One trombone, and the part was next 
to unplayable. Fortunately, one of the three trombonists in town who 
could actually handle it was on the job, and he nailed it, swearing the 
whole time. (Sorry, off the topic. But yes, the work is a contender for 
best music of the 20's.)

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: Best Works of the 1920s

2005-03-11 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 11, 2005, at 3:46 AM, Michael Cook wrote:
At 12:20 -0800 10/03/2005, Mark D Lew wrote:
It has been my observation that Wozzeck is most highly praised by 
people who are very into orchestral music but have little interest in 
opera.  That is, the sort of people who like Wozzeck usually don't 
much care for Verdi and Puccini, and vice versa.
Not my experience. I get as many kicks from Wozzeck as I do from 
Traviata or Tosca, and in the opera theatre where I work (where we do 
just about all the big Wagner, Verdi and Puccini stuff) I find many 
people who feel the same. Wozzeck works on many levels: of course it's 
great orchestral music, but it's also great theatre and wonderfully 
written for the singers. And there are passages in Wozzeck that are 
just as romantic and sexy as anything by Puccini.

Michael Cook
A complete aside:
The chamber orchestration by John Rea of Wozzeck, which I mentioned 
previously as having a killer trombone part, was played in British 
Colombia  a while ago, and the trombone part prompted the B.C. player 
to write an article about how to practice for the gig. This would only 
be of interest to trombonists, but I know there are some here on the 
list.

http://www.musicforbrass.com/articles.php?artnum=182
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] lyrics underline

2005-03-12 Thread Christopher Smith

Yes, apparently the underscore (along with the space and hyphen) is a reserved character telling Finale to move to the next syllable. You would have to find a similar character, mapped to a different keystroke in the font, to force the underscore to appear by itself. I don't know what font you are using, so I couldn't venture a guess. At the worst, you could change font to one that HAD the character, just for one syllable.

Or, if the underscore is by itself on the beat, you could enter an m-dash (on Mac it's opt hyphen, I don't know the alt number on PC) and drag it down manually so that it is in the correct position.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you trying to do here? Pardon the possibly insulting question, but if you are trying to create a word extension, Finale has those built-in. If you are trying to put in an elision (two syllables from different words sung on the same note) there is an elision character (like a curved underscore) in a commonly-available font mapped to a diffferent character. I have misplaced my note about it, as it has been a couple of years since I had to do this, but Mark D. Lew here on the list told me about it; perhaps he will chime in.

Christopher

On Mar 12, 2005, at 10:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have recently purchased a new computer and installed Finale 2004. It will not allow me to type an underline in the lyrics. I do not need to underline a word, I just need to be able to type the underline. Has anyone encountered this problem before?
Sandra
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] lyrics underline

2005-03-12 Thread Christopher Smith

In a message dated 3/12/2005 10:34:48 AM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yes, apparently the underscore (along with the space and hyphen) is a
reserved character telling Finale to move to the next syllable. You
would have to find a similar character, mapped to a different 
keystroke
in the font, to force the underscore to appear by itself. I don't know
what font you are using, so I couldn't venture a guess. At the worst,
you could change font to one that HAD the character, just for one
syllable.

Or, if the underscore is by itself on the beat, you could enter an
m-dash (on Mac it's opt hyphen, I don't know the alt number on PC) and
drag it down manually so that it is in the correct position.
If you don't mind me asking, what are you trying to do here? Pardon 
the
possibly insulting question, but if you are trying to create a word
extension, Finale has those built-in. If you are trying to put in an
elision (two syllables from different words sung on the same note)
there is an elision character (like a curved underscore) in a
commonly-available font mapped to a diffferent character. I have
misplaced my note about it, as it has been a couple of years since I
had to do this, but Mark D. Lew here on the list told me about it;
perhaps he will chime in.

Christopher

Thank you, Christopher, for your help. I do not feel insulted by your 
question. I am aware of the word extension and elision. I input music 
for a church hymnal. Their standard practice is to use an underscore 
(and move it up) when there are two notes and only one syllable/word 
in a stanza while the other stanza/stanzas will have two words or 
syllables on the two notes. I use Ariel font for the lyrics. It is 
really bad that Finale does not have this option as it did in all 
other versions.

 
Sandra
Here's another message from an AOL address that I couldn't reply to in 
Mail (mac OSX)! I wish they would fix that!

I suppose you are using an underscore because an n-dash or an m-dash 
are too long? I understand in that case. There should be a way to have 
a non-breaking hyphen that IS the same character.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] lyrics underline

2005-03-12 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 12, 2005, at 1:57 PM, d. collins wrote:
Mark D Lew écrit:
If so, this must be something new.  There's never been any problem 
with the underscore character up through Fin 2k2.  Perhaps it has to 
do with the new smart word extensions?

Has anyone confirmed whether it's a problem with the actual 
character, or just the keystroke in type-in-score mode?
I just opened I file in 2004 which I recall had underscores in the 
lyrics, and there are no problems.

I can also type them directly into the score in 2004, so I can't 
really understand what the problem is.

Are we all speaking of ALT 95?
Dennis
In FinMac2005 I can't type shift hyphen (which is underscore on the Mac 
keyboard.) It doesn't appear, and the cursor shifts to the next note. 
What is alt 95, in Mac-speak? Type one in your reply, and I can copy it 
and find out.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Instrument changing - midscore

2005-03-13 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 13, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Jim and Pat Sodke wrote:
Christopher
Thank you so much.  Any help on changing the midi playback instrument 
at these points?
Jim

I just need to quote David Bailey's original reply. I'm not sure how 
easy it is to do this in 2004, but it is dead easy in 2005, under 
Playback Options for the expression in question. I suggest assigning 
the playback to the beginning of the bar, as it takes a fraction of a 
second to change patches, which might cause the playback to hiccup if 
you assign to the first note. If you have a note on the first beat, do 
what you can to switch the patch a bit earlier.


The Clarinet to Trumpet is extremely simple -- create an expression 
TRUMPET which also includes a patch change to the trumpet sound (if 
you want accurate playback) since clarinet and trumpet share the 
same transposition and clef.  Then create a second expression 
CLARINET which sets the patch back to the clarinet sound.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Measure spacing handles

2005-03-13 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 13, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Owain Sutton wrote:
Apologies - your reply might have been one that arrived in my inbox 
the afternoon I screwed up my system so badly I had to reinstall.

And I'm now scratching my head as to how I'd missed this before - the 
option that's not on by default isn't for the overall measure width 
(as you know!).  I knew that the lower handle gave me the beat chart, 
and had only ever tweaked individual bar widths along with doing other 
stuff in the measure attributes dialog.  I guess it's a RTFM 
moment...I'm feeling kinda stupid now...

Heh, heh, join the club! I can't believe sometimes how I could have 
missed an item for so long. I get a lot of help on this list, though!

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] FS: GarageKey USB MIDI Keyboard

2005-03-13 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 13, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
P.S. In order to avoid spills on computer equipment, may I suggest 
altering
your work technique? Mount the equipment upside down on swivel posts 
near a
comfortable bed.

Carlberg Jones
Very nice! However, that would still not eliminate the most frequent 
cause of tea-in-computer-keyboard mishaps in my studio: the explosive 
spit as I laugh unexpectedly at somebody's joke here on the List!

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] MacOSX File overwrite bug

2005-03-14 Thread Christopher Smith

And I've never used Exposé, and I've had the bug, both with minimised 
and not-minimised files, even before minimising existed.

Christopher
On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:10 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Jari,
Thanks for passing this on, but I'm afraid this person doesn't know 
what he's talking about.

The file overwrite bug has been an issue since at least Finale 2002 in 
Mac OS 9.  It seems worse in post-Fin2004 versions, but it's not new 
to OS X.

It's definitely a Finale but and not an OS X bug.
I have experienced the file overwrite problem in OS 10.2.x before 
Exposé was introduced.

I never minimize Finale windows, and yet I have still encountered the 
bug.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 14 Mar 2005, at 6:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Sorry if this has been mentioned, here's a thing I haven't heard 
mentioned before. The quote is from Peter West in the Mac forum on 
MM's web forum:

---
I have suffered from the file overwrite bug. It is not a Finale bug, 
it is a MAc OS bug. This, I believe is the problem:

If you have expose switched on and minimise a file to the dock, 
another file open in the same application might under certain 
cercumstances be overwritten by the minimised file. There seem to be 
two ways to prevent this happening (I do both for security)
1. Switch off expose
2. Never minimese a finale file to the dock when working on another 
finale file, just leave the window open in the background.

---
Best regards,
Jari Williamsson
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Slur Interpretation on Playback

2005-03-15 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Leigh Daniels wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on a string arrangement using FinMac2004 with MIDI playback
to my K2600R.
Is there a way for me to get Finale to tell the K2600R to play four
slurred 8th notes legato instead of articulating each note? Interpret
Slurs is checked in HP.
Thanks!
**Leigh
This is a synth issue as much as a Finale issue.
To get a proper legato, you have to have some way of telling the synth 
doing the playback NOT to use the attack portion of the sample, or to 
use a different envelope that doesn't have the transients associate 
with a new bow. Not all synths can do this, so it depends on your 
K2600R.

Assuming it can, the usual way to do this is to have the patch set to 
monophonic (so it won't be able to play two parts at once, like violin 
1 and 2, nor double stops or divisi) and then the synth gets it cue 
from the sequencer by having the notes overlap by some tiny amount. If 
I am not mistaken, this is what Interpret Slurs does in Human 
Playback. Since  the patch is set to monophonic play, two notes WILL 
NOT sound for the overlapped portion, but instead the release portion 
of the envelope is skipped over for the first note, and the attack 
portion is skipped over for the following note, so there is a smooth 
transition between the two notes. Not exactly the same as a real slur, 
but close enough for jazz.

If your patch is NOT set to monophonic, then of course there will just 
be a slight overhang between notes, but every note will still have its 
attack and release exactly like separate articulations.

If I am mistaken, I am sure someone will correct me.
Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams

2005-03-15 Thread Christopher Smith

This is a real hard way to do it. Here's an easier way.

There is a staff style called Slash Notation. In the Staff tool, select the passage, hit S (for Slash). All of layer 1 is turned into slashes. If you hit R (for RHythmic) every thing turns into stemmed slashes.

As you noticed, you need entries in layer 1 to attach the chords to. I use rests so they don't play back.

To make items attached to Layer 1 and other layers appear as well, you have to edit the Staff Style. Make this edit  in your default file, too, and save it, so that you won't ever have to do it again.

1) To make Slash Notation and Rhythmic Notation staff styles show notes in other layers (essential for drum parts!)
Select the Staff Tool (looks like a treble clef)
Staff Menu>Define Staff Styles
Beside Available Styles select Slash Notation
Directly below that about two inches is a check box and Alternate Notation. Click on the Select button just below that.
In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Add Dots to Slashes in Compound Meters. ALL of them should be checked.
Click OK

Beside Available Styles select Rhythmic Notation
Click on the Select button just below Alternate Notation again
In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Stems up in Rhythmic Notation. Check ONLY the first three; leave the stem direction alone.
Click OK, then OK in the Staff Styles dialogue box.


That's it!

Christopher


On Mar 15, 2005, at 12:42 PM, George Ports wrote:

Thanks for such a quick reply Dick.
Everything you said was understood. I had already made a chart with regular
quarter notes and am trying to change them to hash marks. Tried to select
all in staff attributes as you said. The noteheads wouldn't change.  Has it
anything to do with layers or ?
George

- Original Message - 
From: Dick Hauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: finale@shsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams


On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, George Ports wrote:

Is there a way to make a chart with 1/4 note hash marks showing the
chord names and the guitar fretboards?


Select Staff Attributes

select Alternate Notation button

click Select

select Slash button

Ok out.

Fret board can be selected from the chord drop down.

Dick H

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams

2005-03-15 Thread Christopher Smith

Go ahead and send me the file privately. I'll see what's wrong.

Christopher


On Mar 15, 2005, at 1:24 PM, George Ports wrote:

Changed to Slash Notation with no problem. Lost the Chords and Chord diagrams when I did it.
  Tried to edit the Staff Style and couldn't figure out just how to do it. Am using winXPand winfin 2005.
Thanks for your help,
George

x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger
x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerChristopher Smith/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger
x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerfinale@shsu.edu/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger
x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:08 AM/x-tad-bigger
x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams/x-tad-bigger

This is a real hard way to do it. Here's an easier way.

There is a staff style called Slash Notation. In the Staff tool, select the passage, hit S (for Slash). All of layer 1 is turned into slashes. If you hit R (for RHythmic) every thing turns into stemmed slashes.

As you noticed, you need entries in layer 1 to attach the chords to. I use rests so they don't play back.

To make items attached to Layer 1 and other layers appear as well, you have to edit the Staff Style. Make this edit in your default file, too, and save it, so that you won't ever have to do it again.

1) To make Slash Notation and Rhythmic Notation staff styles show notes in other layers (essential for drum parts!)
Select the Staff Tool (looks like a treble clef)
Staff Menu>Define Staff Styles
Beside Available Styles select Slash Notation
Directly below that about two inches is a check box and Alternate Notation. Click on the Select button just below that.
In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Add Dots to Slashes in Compound Meters. ALL of them should be checked.
Click OK

Beside Available Styles select Rhythmic Notation
Click on the Select button just below Alternate Notation again
In the Alternate Notation dialogue box at the bottom, there are four options available; Show Items Attached to Notes, Show Notes in Other Layers, Show Items Attached to Notes in Other Layers, and Stems up in Rhythmic Notation. Check ONLY the first three; leave the stem direction alone.
Click OK, then OK in the Staff Styles dialogue box.


That's it!

Christopher


On Mar 15, 2005, at 12:42 PM, George Ports wrote:


Thanks for such a quick reply Dick.
Everything you said was understood. I had already made a chart with regular
quarter notes and am trying to change them to hash marks. Tried to select
all in staff attributes as you said. The noteheads wouldn't change. Has it
anything to do with layers or ?
George

- Original Message -
From: Dick Hauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: finale@shsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Hash marks with chord diagrams




On Mar 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, George Ports wrote:


Is there a way to make a chart with 1/4 note hash marks showing the
chord names and the guitar fretboards?


Select Staff Attributes

select Alternate Notation button

click Select

select Slash button

Ok out.

Fret board can be selected from the chord drop down.

Dick H

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] removing contents of a single layer

2005-03-16 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 16, 2005, at 7:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm working with the demo version of F2005, which does not include any
documentation or online help (stupidly, if I may say so). If I want to
delete the contents of e.g. layer 4 in a given part, In Finale 2002 
I'm used
to being able to select that layer and then selecting Show Active 
Layer
Only from the view menu. This allows me to select the music in 
question and
then use backspace to remove the contents of that layer. The contents 
of
other layers remain unaffected.

The Show Active Layer Only is no more, apparently. So how do I 
select a
single layer to clear its contents? Simply selecting the layer and 
then the
music in question still removes the contents in all layers when I hit
backspace.

Thanks,
JC
Show Active Layer Only is still there. It's in Options menu now, 
that's all.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Alt-v-a

2005-03-17 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 16, 2005, at 10:03 PM, Keith Helgesen wrote:
Amazing what you learn when reading threads for interest only!
I never knew about Alt-v-a-  Wonderful! I really will find that useful-
Sure beats pulling down the menu!
How does one locate all these shortcuts, macros etc? (Still on Fin2001 
BTW)

Cheers K in OZ
Say, there isn't a Mac version of this shortcut, is there? Mackers, 
anyone?

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Alt-v-a

2005-03-17 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 17, 2005, at 7:14 AM, Carlberg Jones wrote:
At 7:07 AM -0500 3/17/05, Christopher Smith wrote:
Say, there isn't a Mac version of this shortcut, is there? Mackers,
anyone?

Don't know about that one in particular, but when I go to Mac help and
search for keyboard shortcuts I get a wealth of information. You 
select a
topic, get an overview at the bottom, and click there for more detailed
information. I use OS 10.3.7.


Thank you, that was very helpful. But through no fault of yours, it 
doesn't seem to help much.

For switching to Show Active Layer Only, I need to do this:
Control F2 (which switches focus to the menu), tab 5 times, S, down 
arrow 4 times (because S selects Set Fonts as showing up first in 
alphabetical order before Show...), enter.

A little convoluted, no?
Any other Mac types out there with a better way?
Christopher
PS, I rediscovered that cmd tilde  (cmd ~) cycles through open windows. 
I used to know that, but forgot! That was the old Page View - Scroll 
View keyboard shortcut in an earlier version of Finale, so it confused 
me.

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

2005-03-17 Thread Christopher Smith

On Mar 17, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Eric Dussault wrote:
We normally count the measure from the first complete measure in a 
piece or section. I think I remember reading something about a rule 
that makes the pick-up measure by part of the measure count when it 
has a certain length (like more than half of a measure).
I can't find any reference to this in Stone, Read, Blatter or Ross.
Any clues?

Thank you,
Éric Dussault
I have always NOT included any pickup measures in the measure count, 
even when there is more than one measure as a pickup. I may be wrong 
there, but it's what I have always done. I only count from the first 
measure of the phrase, regardless of any pickups.

I even see from time to time works where an entire introduction is not 
numbered, or numbered with a, b etc., or i ii in lower case 
Roman numerals, like a book preface, though this might only be because 
the intro was added later and they needed to keep consistency with some 
other version.

My gut feeling is not to number a pickup measure, no matter what the 
length.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:20 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Mar 17, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Eric Dussault wrote:
We normally count the measure from the first complete measure in a 
piece or section. I think I remember reading something about a rule 
that makes the pick-up measure by part of the measure count when it 
has a certain length (like more than half of a measure).
I can't find any reference to this in Stone, Read, Blatter or Ross.
Any clues?

Thank you,
Éric Dussault
I have always NOT included any pickup measures in the measure count, 
even when there is more than one measure as a pickup. I may be wrong 
there, but it's what I have always done. I only count from the first 
measure of the phrase, regardless of any pickups.
I'm confused -- how can there be more than one measure as a pickup?
Pickups are those notes which make up an incomplete measure before the 
first measure of the work.  The New Harvard Dictionary defines Pickup 
as one or more notes which precede the first metrically strong beat 
(usually the first beat of the first comlete measure) of a phrase or a 
section of a composition; anacrusis, upbeat.

Complete measures as part of a pickup would be more of an 
introduction than a pickup.  And measures of an introduction, in my 
experience, are part of the measure count.


I'm thinking of one piece in particular of mine that I started with a 7 
eighth-note pickup, but then amended later to be 9 eighth-notes, which 
of course took up one measure and an eighth note (over two measures), 
neither of which I chose to number. Seemed silly to me.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 10:18 AM, John Howell wrote:
At 7:53 AM -0500 3/18/05, Eric Dussault wrote:
Thanks everyone for your opinions. It fortunately confirms the 
practice I always did.

There is one situation where I don't know for sure what to do :
considering that the duration of the anacrusis is substracted to the 
last measure, what are you doing when you have a five quarter notes 
anacrusis and that the last measure has notes to fill, let's say, a 
half note? There is then not enough beats left on the measure to 
substract 5 quarter notes.
I consider that rule an anachronism, similar to the stacking up of 
breve and semibreve rests in an incomprehensible pile instead of 
simply writing in |21| !  Others may not agree, but the layout 
has to fit the music, not the other way around, and not all music 
lends itself to following that rule.

Umm, I was about to say the same thing, but John beat me to it.
Christopher
(that is to say, Me, too!)
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 12:50 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 at 7:58, Christopher Smith wrote:
I'm thinking of one piece in particular of mine that I started with a
7 eighth-note pickup, but then amended later to be 9 eighth-notes,
which of course took up one measure and an eighth note (over two
measures), neither of which I chose to number. Seemed silly to me.
Maybe musically, but measure numbers are not for musical analysis,
but for ease of rehearsing. Having more than one measure before
measure 1 means that talking about the first full measure means *not*
using simple measure numbers. The other issue is that your score will
be forced to not follow the usual practice of having no measure
numbers on the first system, since you have to indicate that it's the
third frame that is actually numbered measure 1.
I understand that, and I forced the measure number to appear in that 
case on my bar 1.

Then why the convention of not numbering incomplete pickup measures? If 
numbering is ONLY for keeping everyone in the same place, why shouldn't 
an incomplete pickup bar have a number? Why number solo works, since 
only one person is playing it?

For that matter, in the example I cited above (BEFORE the revision) I 
had a pickup measure with 7 eighths in it. I didn't bother making it a 
7/8 bar, as that seemed needlessly fussy and would most likely 
interfere with reading, rather than helping it. So since that pickup 
measure is notated as a FULL measure of 4/4 (starting with an eighth 
rest), should it have a number? I didn't think so at the time, and saw 
no reason to change my mind in the revised version just because I had 
two extra eighths added onto the seven already there. The gesture was 
not different enough for me to see the difference.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Handwritten fonts

On Mar 17, 2005, at 11:00 PM, John Bell wrote:
I know that the Jazz font is quite popular with writers and players 
who are accustomed to handwritten music. Personally I have always 
regarded it as rather silly, if you're using a computer, to pretend 
that you're not. But I do recognize that some people like to feel that 
the music is new, has just been written, and is not yet set in stone. 
The Inkpen font is also popular with Sibelius users.

I have a small project in which I do want to produce some music that 
looks handwritten. My own style, pre-computer, was distinctive in that 
I  attached all stems, whether up or down ones, to the right-hand side 
of note-heads. Is there any way that this can be achieved with Jazz or 
Inkpen?

John
As Brad mentioned, in Document OptionStems, select the button Stem 
Connections. Select your quarter note head, hit Edit. Drag the bottom 
stem to the right of the notehead. Repeat for the half note head.

If I may venture a response to your comment about inkpen type music 
fonts being silly, it is not about trying to pretend that it wasn't 
written on a computer. I often use standard serif fonts for titles and 
the like, along with JazzFont noteheads, for example. It's about trying 
to make the music look as much like what a musician is used to seeing 
as possible, so that they can relax and not have decode every marking 
separately (like reading words phonetically, how fast do you read like 
that, for example - upside down?) In addition, some glyphs do not exist 
in the other fonts that are essential for proper notation of jazz 
music.

And as for the not set in stone thing, you got that part right, but 
it's not so much about it being new, it's about giving some control 
over the final sound to the performer. All written music has elements 
of that philosophy, but it is essential to good jazz, and a stricter 
engraved look conveys more of a do it THIS way authority than a 
hand font does. I have often seen this effect, and though I am a 
pragmatist in as many ways as I can be, I recognize that a good state 
of mind on the performer's part is essential for good music, so I try 
to help that along any way I can, up to and including bringing coffee 
and cookies to the reading session, and using an inkpen font on the 
parts.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Mar 18, 2005, at 12:24 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
 The first measure is the beginning of the harmonic
rhythm, and should be dictated by the composer's intention.
This is by no means necessarily the case. Partial measures are not 
numbered precisely because they are not full measures. This is made 
particularly clear when there is a repeat sign back to the beginning, 
and the pickup forms the back end of a measure that has already been 
numbered, just before the repeat sign.

As you mentioned, this may be yet another difference between classical 
and jazz conventions. I have never seen, not even once, a repeat in the 
middle of a measure in a jazz tune, even when it may have seemed 
obvious to have one, while I have seen them numerous times in classical 
works. DC's to partial pickup measures are not done in jazz, the pickup 
being part of the last measure before the DS.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 10:44 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hiro,
I don't know how many times I have to say this.
Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form.
You keep confusing two completely unrelated issues.
In a 32-bar AABA tune with a two-bar intro, you delineate the form 
with double bars and rehearsal letters or numbers, NOT measure 
numbers.

You still have to assign a unique number to each complete measure, 
though.

- Darcy
Darcy,
I was ready to capitulate on the numbering-all-complete-measures issue, 
but this went over the edge. You can say

Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form.
 all you like, but in standard even-numbered forms, especially when 
written in lead-sheet format, many jazz musicians depend on the measure 
numbers to orient themselves. I know you understand about aligning the 
phrases with the beginnings of systems for readability; this is exactly 
the same. It may not be THE conventional way, but it IS a way that many 
players are familiar with, particularly with regards to standards. 
These are probably the guys who also number 1st endings as measure 8 
and 2nd endings as 8a, to preserve the numbering scheme from phrase 
to phrase.

Yet, as Hiro said, if one is not composing in symmetrical phrases, it 
won't matter.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 18, 2005, at 5:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 at 14:08, Christopher Smith wrote:
For that matter, in the example I cited above (BEFORE the revision) I
had a pickup measure with 7 eighths in it. I didn't bother making it a
7/8 bar, as that seemed needlessly fussy and would most likely
interfere with reading, rather than helping it. . . .
Well, it would also be played differently from a partial 4/4 measure
by any musician who has any sensitivity whatsoever to meter.
I'm surprised a composer would even consider the two options
equivalent.
I'm sure you understood me correctly; why are you giving me such a hard 
time about my nomenclature? Of course I have to tell Finale that it is 
a 7/8 bar, displayed as an incomplete 4/4 bar. Finale doesn't space it 
correctly if I don't do it that way. But I chose NOT to use an 
incomplete 4/4 bar (happy now?) for a pickup of 7 eighth notes, for 
reasons of clarity.


. . . So since that pickup
measure is notated as a FULL measure of 4/4 (starting with an eighth
rest), should it have a number? I didn't think so at the time, and saw
no reason to change my mind in the revised version just because I had
two extra eighths added onto the seven already there. The gesture was
not different enough for me to see the difference.
Well, if it's got a downbeat, even if that downbeat is a rest, it
should be numbered measure 1, in my opinion.
And in the opinions of others as well. I think I am in a minority on 
this one, along with Chuck and Hiro (although it's pretty good company 
to be in!)


I think notating 7 8th notes as an incomplete bar would be *very*
confusing, though, as it's too easy to mistake it for a full measure
(though beaming in groups of 4 rather helps with that).
On the other hand, notating it as a full measure with a rest would
tend to obscure the upbeatness of the entire measure.
That was also part of my dilemma about notating this pickup.

I'm not entirely convinced that an upbeat *can* be that long, in any
perceptible sense, except in very fast tempos, but that's an esthetic
argument that gets into personal tastes.
On the contrary, I think it can be very clear, even in slow tempos. 
Compare the 7 eighth-note beginnings to In a Sentimental Mood by 
Ellington, or Daahoud by Clifford Brown (clearly a pickup) to 
Someone to Watch Over Me by Gershwin or My One And Only Love by 
Wood and Melllin (clearly the first measure of an eight-bar phrase.) I 
can send you PDF's if you don't have copies nearby. No question in any 
of those cases. That's why I am so touchy about notating them in a way 
that the appearance on paper will jibe with the sound.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Re: Justifying Text in Expression Designer

Rob,
Justification is not one of the features that staff expressions have, 
at least, not in the present version of Finale. Yes, I bemoaned that 
fact, too, and sent off a request to Finale to include justification 
next time, as that is the last thing you can do in Text expressions 
that you can't do in Staff Expressions.

The two tools use the same engine, apparently, that's why the feature 
is there in the box, but grey.

Christopher
On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:10 AM, Rob Deemer wrote:
Thanks Noel,
I'm not sure that's it...Finale obviously has given us the ability to 
create multi-line
text expressions within the expression designer. The Text menu for the 
Expression
Designer has some, but not all, of the capabilities of the Text Tool 
and Justification is
one of them. I'm just trying to figure out what toggles that feature 
from greyed to
activated.

I'm on a Mac, btw...
--- Noel Stoutenburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rob Deemer wrote:
Hello all,
I'm finishing up orchestrating a ballet (aka my dissertation) and 
I'm running into an
odd
problem. When I'm working in the Text Expression Designer and have 
an expression that
has
more than one line, the Justification tools are greyed out. Any 
ideas on why this is
and
how I can get it working again? Thanks!
My best answer:  the designers of Finale consider that an expression 
is
going to be so short that it can fit into a single line, and that
therefore, justification is unnecessary, and didn't provide for
justification in expressions.  Best workaround:  hide the expressions,
and create a duplicate expression as a measure attached text-block if
you need the justification.

I haven't had the need to use this feature yet, so I've not tried this
second choice:  use hard [non-breaking] spaces to put the 
justification
in manually.  In windows, the nonbreaking space is created by pressing
down the Alt- key, while entering the digits  0173 on the numeric
keypad.

ns
-Rob
Rob Deemer
Doctoral Candidate in Music Composition,
Assistant Director, UT New Music Ensemble
The University of Texas at Austin
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Sibelius into Finale

On Mar 19, 2005, at 7:28 AM, john harding wrote:
I'm no Finalist, but I did once save a Sibelius score as MIDI and then
open it in Finale.  I wanted to see if it would (unlike Sibelius) 
notate
multiple Scotch Snaps correctly, which it did.  The formatting seemed 
to
have flown out the window, and others will know better than I whether
that was recoverable.  I'd be interested to know, actually, because I'm
still sitting on a folder with about 200 backward-facing scotch snaps,
and it's either Finale or pen and ink.


OK, I have to ask. What's a Scotch Snap? Does it have to do with 
Scottish drumming (utterly amazing, when done well!)

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 19, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005, at 12:10 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
I was ready to capitulate on the numbering-all-complete-measures 
issue, but this went over the edge. You can say

Measure numbers have NOTHING TO DO with the form.
 all you like, but in standard even-numbered forms, especially when 
written in lead-sheet format, many jazz musicians depend on the 
measure numbers to orient themselves.
Do any of the tunes in The New Real Book series have any measure 
numbers at all?

Is it hard to orient yourself when playing from a lead sheet from one 
of those books?

Now, why is that?  It's because the charts are laid out intelligently, 
with new sections beginning new systems, and proper use of double bars 
and rehearsal letters.  Nobody minds the lack of measure numbers, 
because measure numbers don't actually do the work you are claiming 
they do.  Or rather, they are only pressed into service for that 
purpose if the copyist did a lousy job with the layout and section 
markers (double bars, rehearsal letters).

Your point about the New Real Book not having measure numbers 
illustrates my point even better than it does yours.

Turn to the Daahoud lead sheet in the original Real Book (sorry, not 
the New Real Book) in a rehearsal. Say to the musicians, I would like 
the rhythm section to break in bar 3. Which bar are they going to 
break on, the 3rd bar of the form, or the 3rd full bar (which is the 
2nd bar of the form)? Pretty much 100% of the musicians I play with are 
going to ignore the pickup bar completely for purposes of measure 
counting, despite it being notated as a complete measure.

In fact, Finale-copied lead sheets that HAVE bar numbers sometimes 
serve to confuse the issue. In the case of Daahoud, if I referred to 
bar 3, they might ask back, Bar NUMBER 3, or the 3rd bar of the form?



I know you understand about aligning the phrases with the beginnings 
of systems for readability; this is exactly the same.
I disagree.  The first -- aligning the beginnings of phrases with the 
beginnings of systems and marking them with double bars and rehearsal 
numbers/and or letters -- is absolutely standard practice, is 
instantly obvious at a glance, and is still useful in situations where 
you aren't shackled to cycling through a 32-bar AABA form.

Measure numbers just can't do that kind of work.  They are not 
instantly visible at a glance (even when every measure is numbered) 
and they aren't reliable indicators of where you are in the form, 
precisely because even in the arrangement of a standard, you may -- 
or, working today, you almost certainly will be -- dealing with all 
kinds of extended or truncated phrases, introductions, interludes, 
interjections, etc.

Even if you have a chart that is absolutely slavishly literally 32-bar 
AABA all the way through, how many choruses does it take before the 
measure numbers cease to twig anything in the mind of a player?  I'll 
accept that 1, 9, 17, and 25, but 73? 81? 113? Come on.

One chorus. That's all it takes. It's important to musicians playing 
lead sheets, because they spend a lot of their careers playing 
standards with symmetrical forms. Not recognizing that fact might cause 
me to inadvertently create weirdness that reduces the readability of a 
lead sheet, instead of increasing it. If we are talking about a 
full-fledged arrangement, with extended intro, coda, yada yada, then I 
agree with you, of course the most important thing in measure numbering 
is that is all be the same and predictable for all players, rather than 
sticking to the basic form.


Yet, as Hiro said, if one is not composing in symmetrical phrases, it 
won't matter.
Again, I think it is an absolutely terrible idea to have one numbering 
system for pieces with symmetrical 8-bar phrases all the way through, 
and a different numbering system for pieces without.

Why? The notation of a piece should reflect the clearest communication 
to the players, and having set measure numbers starting at the 
beginning of symmetrical phrases is the clearest way to communicate 
that in certain works.

I'm stuck here defending a principle that I only apply myself rarely, 
as most of my music is NOT written in 32-bar lead sheets, and only one 
has ever had a measure or more pickup. But I think the principle is 
sound, nevertheless, when applied to that kind of music.

Another aside: I was cranky yesterday when I answered you and David 
Fenton on this subject. I'm sorry for the tone I took (especially in 
David's case, as it was my fault for not being clear in the first 
place) and I apologise.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Libraries not backwards compatible?

On Mar 19, 2005, at 3:30 PM, John Roberts wrote:
I was hoping to make a small library of articulations (simple guitar
fingerings) to send to a friend still using Finale 97. A quick 
experiment
seems to indicate that to do even this little thing I would need to 
create
the library in Fin 97 or earlier. Is this indeed the case or is there 
a way
to get around it?

(I'm on Mac, using 2001 and 2003 until they fix 2005 - ha ha).
Thanks,
John Roberts
No, I'm afraid that libraries are not compatible between versions, even 
between platforms (much to my surprise!). It would be better to send 
him a Finale document (created with Fin 97) and let him extract the 
libraries himself, as I have had very poor success with sending 
libraries even to others on the same platform as myself.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure

On Mar 19, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 19 Mar 2005, at 12:19 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Your point about the New Real Book not having measure numbers 
illustrates my point even better than it does yours.
How, exactly?  My point is that proper layout and use of rehearsal 
letters and double bars is *wy* more important to musicians 
keeping their place in the form than measure numbers.

So much so that even when there are no measure numbers, it's perfectly 
easy to keep your place.

I wasn't arguing against that at all. But calling bars out on a lead 
sheet, that's another story.


 in a rehearsal. Say to the musicians, I would like the rhythm 
section to break in bar 3. Which bar are they going to break on, the 
3rd bar of the form, or the 3rd full bar (which is the 2nd bar of the 
form)?
If the chart had been properly copied (according to the standards of 
the New Real Book), there would be no eighth rest in the pickup 
measure, and there would be a boxed rehearsal letter [A] in the first 
full measure.  So you could say, There's a break in the 3rd bar of 
[A] -- or, even, There's a break in bar 3 -- without any confusion 
at all.

You would have to say There's a break in bar FOUR if the measure HAD 
the eighth rest, which is what I was arguing against. Or if it had an 
8-eighth note pickup instead of a 7 note pickup, which is not all that 
different from what is there already. I'm not sure musicians are aware 
enough of the rule about only numbering complete measures to make the 
distinction between the bar numbers with a 7 note pickup and an 8 note 
pickup. It's all the same to them (and to me too, pretty much, anyway.) 
Remember, most jazz musicians don't know that repeats are not supposed 
to occur on DSs, or that accidentals only apply in the same octave as 
they first appear in the measure, and they even have trouble keeping 
track of accidentals that have already appeared in the measure at 
times! A detail about the pickup bar being numbered if it is complete 
escapes them completely, I'm sure.


Speaking of which, let's go back to the New Real Book. Open it up to 
Airegin.  Are you going to tell the band The bass breaks on beat 4 
of bar 2 or The bass breaks on beat 4 of the second bar of [A]?

That lead sheet has a full written intro, in which case we seem to be 
in agreement. Let's keep the discussion to pickups, especially those of 
1 measure more or less.


In fact, Finale-copied lead sheets that HAVE bar numbers sometimes 
serve to confuse the issue. In the case of Daahoud, if I referred to 
bar 3, they might ask back, Bar NUMBER 3, or the 3rd bar of the 
form?
That's an argument for *more* consistency, then, not less.
I AM arguing for consistency. I expect NO pickup measures to be 
numbered, no matter whether they are complete or not.

Christopher
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] pick-up measure