Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Well, I am totally confused by the character viewer in Mac OSX. I use the opt- and opt-shift characters I learned long ago (OS6 or so) and that's as far as I get, still using the old PostScript Type 2 fonts where I have them, but gradually moving towards TrueType and the OSX pre-installed versions when they're there. And unfortunately I have to leave this debate as I'm about to head out of town (and country) for a couple of weeks and won't have access to Finale, and not much email either. Thanks for the input. John On 3/31/14, 11:50 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I did a test. The punctuation called hyphen in the Character Viewer is higher than the the hyphen Finale uses in the Lyric Tool. The punctuation called non-breaking hyphen is exactly the same character as the hyphen in Character Viewer, with the same positioning. Finale apparently uses a soft hyphen for its ordinary hyphen in lyrics, which appears to be the same glyph as the hyphen but slightly lower. It uses the non-breaking hyphen when you type opt-dash or select non-breaking hyphen from the menu, which is as I said, higher than the soft hyphen. A figure dash is slightly longer. An en dash is longer AND thinner. An em dash is even longer, and the same thickness as the en-dash. I can forward you a Finale file privately with all these entered for examination, if you want. Christopher On Mon Mar 31, at MondayMar 31 11:33 PM, John Roberts wrote: It looks like a simple en-dash to me. (I took it as an instruction to type an en-dash for someone who might not know what an en-dash is). John John On 3/31/14, 10:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
[Finale] Hard hyphen question
Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Ah - that's PC. There must be a corresponding Mac keystroke. On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:49 AM, dc den...@free.fr wrote: Le 31/03/2014 19:35, Chuck Israels écrit : Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. ALT 0173 gives you a hard hyphen. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Hi Chuck, An option-hyphen should do the trick. Winds up being two different words, I guess, as Finale sees it. I think that will work for you. Don Hart On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.netwrote: Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Thank you, Dennis and Don. Chuck On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Chuck, An option-hyphen should do the trick. Winds up being two different words, I guess, as Finale sees it. I think that will work for you. Don Hart On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.netwrote: Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
There is a difference. Opt-hyphen gives an n-dash, depending on the font this may be longer, sometimes thinner, but not the same as a regular hyphen. Sometimes I prefer to add the hyphen graphically, as an expression or articulation. But of course, then you have to keep track of it if the layout changes. John On 3/31/14, 2:02 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Thank you, Dennis and Don. Chuck On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Chuck, An option-hyphen should do the trick. Winds up being two different words, I guess, as Finale sees it. I think that will work for you. Don Hart On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.netwrote: Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
I'm not so picky. Opt-hyphen seems to look good to my eye, at least on the screen. Grateful for all the help. On Mar 31, 2014, at 11:13 AM, John Roberts an...@nycap.rr.com wrote: There is a difference. Opt-hyphen gives an n-dash, depending on the font this may be longer, sometimes thinner, but not the same as a regular hyphen. Sometimes I prefer to add the hyphen graphically, as an expression or articulation. But of course, then you have to keep track of it if the layout changes. John On 3/31/14, 2:02 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Thank you, Dennis and Don. Chuck On Mar 31, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Chuck, An option-hyphen should do the trick. Winds up being two different words, I guess, as Finale sees it. I think that will work for you. Don Hart On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Chuck Israels cisra...@comcast.netwrote: Does anyone know how to force a hyphen to show when the word is divided between endings? The word in the second verse starts before the second ending and ends in the second ending (but the baseline for the continuation is the same as for the first verse - no reason for it to be lower, as it is when it needs to be under the first verse), and the hyphen does not show. It looks like: com bined, instead of com- bined. I seem to remember that there's a way to force this to show, but I don't remember how. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
I'm not so picky. Opt-hyphen seems to look good to my eye, at least on the screen. I've been out of the loop for a while. Can Finale handle Unicode in lyrics yet? If not, then it's a good thing you're not picky, because Mac doesn't have a non-breaking hyphen like Windows does. So if you can't get at the Unicode you're out of luck. It varies with the typeface, but to my eye the en-dash looks bad as a hyphen. I've solved the problem by kludging a text expression onto the syllable where I need the hyphen. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Chuck On Mar 31, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Mark D Lew markd...@earthlink.net wrote: I'm not so picky. Opt-hyphen seems to look good to my eye, at least on the screen. I've been out of the loop for a while. Can Finale handle Unicode in lyrics yet? If not, then it's a good thing you're not picky, because Mac doesn't have a non-breaking hyphen like Windows does. So if you can't get at the Unicode you're out of luck. It varies with the typeface, but to my eye the en-dash looks bad as a hyphen. I've solved the problem by kludging a text expression onto the syllable where I need the hyphen. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202-7097 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Unicode is supported, i think since 2012. not sure. On 3/31/2014 10:51 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
I never learned what Unicode is. Does the fact that it is supported mean that there is indeed a hard hyphen keystroke somewhere that looks better than the em dash (which looks to me better than nothing)? I will do some research when I return from dinner. This must be on the web somewhere but my phone screen is not welcoming to web browsing for my eyes. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:53 PM, Bruce Kau kaub...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Unicode is supported, i think since 2012. not sure. On 3/31/2014 10:51 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher On Mon Mar 31, at MondayMar 31 10:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I never learned what Unicode is. Does the fact that it is supported mean that there is indeed a hard hyphen keystroke somewhere that looks better than the em dash (which looks to me better than nothing)? I will do some research when I return from dinner. This must be on the web somewhere but my phone screen is not welcoming to web browsing for my eyes. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:53 PM, Bruce Kau kaub...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Unicode is supported, i think since 2012. not sure. On 3/31/2014 10:51 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher On Mon Mar 31, at MondayMar 31 10:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I never learned what Unicode is. Does the fact that it is supported mean that there is indeed a hard hyphen keystroke somewhere that looks better than the em dash (which looks to me better than nothing)? I will do some research when I return from dinner. This must be on the web somewhere but my phone screen is not welcoming to web browsing for my eyes. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:53 PM, Bruce Kau kaub...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Unicode is supported, i think since 2012. not sure. On 3/31/2014 10:51 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
I would probably just enter a regular hyphen in a measure attached text box. It'll always move with the layout, but you might have to adjust. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher On Mon Mar 31, at MondayMar 31 10:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I never learned what Unicode is. Does the fact that it is supported mean that there is indeed a hard hyphen keystroke somewhere that looks better than the em dash (which looks to me better than nothing)? I will do some research when I return from dinner. This must be on the web somewhere but my phone screen is not welcoming to web browsing for my eyes. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2014, at 6:53 PM, Bruce Kau kaub...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Unicode is supported, i think since 2012. not sure. On 3/31/2014 10:51 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: Mark - it's been a while! Nice to know you are still here. Thanks, Chuck. I don't do much engraving these days (or much music at all, really), but I've stayed subscribed to the list and I still skim the subject lines as they flow through my email inbox. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
It looks like a simple en-dash to me. (I took it as an instruction to type an en-dash for someone who might not know what an en-dash is). John John On 3/31/14, 10:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Hard hyphen question
I did a test. The punctuation called hyphen in the Character Viewer is higher than the the hyphen Finale uses in the Lyric Tool. The punctuation called non-breaking hyphen is exactly the same character as the hyphen in Character Viewer, with the same positioning. Finale apparently uses a soft hyphen for its ordinary hyphen in lyrics, which appears to be the same glyph as the hyphen but slightly lower. It uses the non-breaking hyphen when you type opt-dash or select non-breaking hyphen from the menu, which is as I said, higher than the soft hyphen. A figure dash is slightly longer. An en dash is longer AND thinner. An em dash is even longer, and the same thickness as the en-dash. I can forward you a Finale file privately with all these entered for examination, if you want. Christopher On Mon Mar 31, at MondayMar 31 11:33 PM, John Roberts wrote: It looks like a simple en-dash to me. (I took it as an instruction to type an en-dash for someone who might not know what an en-dash is). John John On 3/31/14, 10:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: In the Text menu when you are typing lyrics, there is a command insert hard hyphen for which the keystroke is opt-hyphen. It is the same length as a hyphen (which beats the last opt-hyphen which was an en-dash, not an em-dash), but seems to be set a trifle higher in Times New Roman. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
