Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-23 Thread Christopher Smith
On Jan 23, 2009, at 12:10 AM, Ray Horton wrote: Regarding the falset notes, which you call Privileged frequencies ... unstable ... and imply that A very high level of expertise is needed for them: I teach them to junior high students, so when they purchase a trombone with a valve they

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-23 Thread Carl Dershem
Christopher Smith wrote: On Jan 23, 2009, at 12:10 AM, Ray Horton wrote: Regarding the falset notes, which you call Privileged frequencies ... unstable ... and imply that A very high level of expertise is needed for them: I teach them to junior high students, so when they purchase a

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-22 Thread Andrew Stiller
On Jan 22, 2009, at 1:46 AM, Ray Horton wrote: The Eb down to C in question can be played in 4th through 7th position. On modern instruments, played by players who do not cultivate this series of notes, there is a noticeable timbre difference, but on smaller bore instruments, the sound can

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-22 Thread Ray Horton
Andrew, Regarding the falset notes, which you call Privileged frequencies ... unstable ... and imply that A very high level of expertise is needed for them: I teach them to junior high students, so when they purchase a trombone with a valve they are already used to the range below the

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-21 Thread Andrew Stiller
On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Ray Horton wrote: ... the most common trombone section of the classical era was three Bb tenors. Both Mozart and Beethoven (and at least a few early Romantics) routinely write the bass trombone down to C. No valveless tenor can play this note. So much for

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-21 Thread Christopher Smith
On 21-Jan-09, at 21-Jan-09 3:02 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Ray Horton wrote: ... the most common trombone section of the classical era was three Bb tenors. Both Mozart and Beethoven (and at least a few early Romantics) routinely write the bass trombone

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-21 Thread arabushk
Can someone tell me where one of these great-octave C's for bass 'bone is in something by Beethoven or Mozart? I recall an instance in the Brahms 1st symphony chorale, but not in the works of the other two. ajr, now waiting for the orginal three tenors to take their bow! On 21-Jan-09, at

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-21 Thread John Howell
At 6:04 PM -0600 1/21/09, arabu...@cowtown.net wrote: Can someone tell me where one of these great-octave C's for bass 'bone is in something by Beethoven or Mozart? I recall an instance in the Brahms 1st symphony chorale, but not in the works of the other two. Not in Beethoven's 5th. I just

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-21 Thread Ray Horton
Please see my other reply to David's post about how these notes CAN be played on a valveless tenor. To expand: The Eb down to C in question can be played in 4th through 7th position. On modern instruments, played by players who do not cultivate this series of notes, there is a noticeable

Re: [Finale] OT trombones in Beethoven

2009-01-20 Thread Ray Horton
Andrew, you should read the recent research work of Howard Weiner and Ken Shifrin. To oversimplify - the alto trombone was not as omnipresent as we have been led to think. (Weiner, in particular, is quite adamant on this.) Often, the alto trombone, even in the time of Mozart and Beethoven,