Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
At 06:26 PM 2/19/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: Don't forget to run Microsoft Anti-Spyware to clear out all the crap IE allowed on her system in the first place. I installed it and ran it yesterday. No problems. I guess I run a clean W2K IE6 system . . . Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
On the recommendation of various listers, I got Firefox (Mac OSX) and installed it (if you can call that an installation, as I just dragged the app over from the disk image). It seems to work surprisingly similarly to Safari, except it doesn't choke on certain web pages. It is quite zippy, and so far seems to be great. I like when it blocks a popup and lets me know. (Hey, boss, see what a good job I'm doing for you?) Very cute. One funny thing I noticed right away, though. When I click a link to open a new window with the new page, if the new page hasn't finished loading yet and I try to scroll in the new window with the scroll wheel, it is the ORIGINAL window, behind it, that scrolls, instead of the one that I am looking at. This means that when I close the new window, I am not in the same place in the window I left. If I let the new window finish loading, then I can scroll normally. Yet, I can hit Page Down in the new window at any time after the scroll bars appear to page down normally; it is only the scroll wheel that acts funny. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:35:09 -0500, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the recommendation of various listers, I got Firefox (Mac OSX) and installed it (if you can call that an installation, as I just dragged the app over from the disk image). It seems to work surprisingly similarly to Safari, except it doesn't choke on certain web pages. It is quite zippy, and so far seems to be great. I like when it blocks a popup and lets me know. (Hey, boss, see what a good job I'm doing for you?) Very cute. The next time that happens, you can just click that gray bar at the top and choose don't show this warning. Then, you'll only see the I blocked a popup! notice as a little icon in the status bar. One funny thing I noticed right away, though. When I click a link to open a new window with the new page, if the new page hasn't finished loading yet and I try to scroll in the new window with the scroll wheel, it is the ORIGINAL window, behind it, that scrolls, instead of the one that I am looking at. This means that when I close the new window, I am not in the same place in the window I left. If I let the new window finish loading, then I can scroll normally. Yet, I can hit Page Down in the new window at any time after the scroll bars appear to page down normally; it is only the scroll wheel that acts funny. The best thing to do to circumvent this issue would be to download a Single Window extension (the only one that works *well* for OSX is Quick Tab Pref Toggle: http://www.jedbrown.net). This will allow you to have links that automatically open a new window to open in a new *tab* instead. Unchecking Hide the tab bar when only one web page is open in the prefs might be a good idea as well (otherwise, the continual showing/hiding of the tab bar can get annoying). There are a lot of things you can do to customize Firefox to do things exactly as you want them; as Jari said, many powerful extensions exist to customize the browser to fit your working methods. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com FinaleIRC (come chat!): http://finaleirc.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Bruce K H Kau wrote: Others have recommended Firefox, which would add my voice to. However, I wouldn't count Mozilla out, as it is a more mature program and has some things that Firefox does not yet have, such as the ability to bookmark a set of tabs. OK. I've been using Mozilla for a couple of years (switching to it from Netscape), and looked briefly at Firefox. I've not downloaded or used the latter, but my preliminary impression is that if you download Firefox and Thunderbird, which together have about the same file size as Mozilla, you get, essentially, Mozilla. Is there a recent contrast / comparison page between Firefox and Mozilla? ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Bruce K H Kau wrote: Others have recommended Firefox, which would add my voice to. However, I wouldn't count Mozilla out, as it is a more mature program and has some things that Firefox does not yet have, such as the ability to bookmark a set of tabs. OK. I've been using Mozilla for a couple of years (switching to it from Netscape), and looked briefly at Firefox. I've not downloaded or used the latter, but my preliminary impression is that if you download Firefox and Thunderbird, which together have about the same file size as Mozilla, you get, essentially, Mozilla. Is there a recent contrast / comparison page between Firefox and Mozilla? ns Not that I know of, but I prefer to run Firefox Thunderbird rather than Mozilla, for the following reasons: - Firefox runs more cleanly than the browser in Mozilla. - Extensions are created and updated more often for Firefox - When one crashes, it doesn't affect the other! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
My girlfriend has a WindowsXP system with Internet Explorer, which has been terribly buggy for about a month now. The whole time I've been telling her -- with playful exaggeration -- that Microsoft is evil and IE is garbage and if she had any sense she'd throw the whole thing out and get a real browser. Tonight, only a few days after a complete clean out of her hard drive and reinstallation of everything, which was supposed to fix everything, her IE is crashing again. In despair, she has called my bluff. OK, she says to me, I'll get rid of IE. So what should I install instead? I'm a lifelong Mac person, and I'm not all that computer-savvy anyway, so I'm not very good with practical suggestions. I know this list has plenty of smart PC users who know how to make Windows work without IE. Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Are there any other simple precautions that can be taken, besides declining to open random exe files that get sent to her? (That much I know, at least.) She's got a high-speed cable connection. thanks mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Mark D Lew wrote: What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Firefox. http://www.mozilla.org/ And it's available for OSX too... Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Mark, In addition to using Firefox instead of IE, she should also download and install Microsoft Anti-Spyware. Now, it may sound odd to be recommending a second Microsoft product to solve the problems caused by the first (IE), and the irony isn't lost on anyone -- but MS Anti-Spyware was actually developped by a third party, who Microsoft bought when they realized they couldn't get their *own* act together on the anti-spyware front. And from all reports so far, it's actually good. http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 19 Feb 2005, at 4:31 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: My girlfriend has a WindowsXP system with Internet Explorer, which has been terribly buggy for about a month now. The whole time I've been telling her -- with playful exaggeration -- that Microsoft is evil and IE is garbage and if she had any sense she'd throw the whole thing out and get a real browser. Tonight, only a few days after a complete clean out of her hard drive and reinstallation of everything, which was supposed to fix everything, her IE is crashing again. In despair, she has called my bluff. OK, she says to me, I'll get rid of IE. So what should I install instead? I'm a lifelong Mac person, and I'm not all that computer-savvy anyway, so I'm not very good with practical suggestions. I know this list has plenty of smart PC users who know how to make Windows work without IE. Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Are there any other simple precautions that can be taken, besides declining to open random exe files that get sent to her? (That much I know, at least.) She's got a high-speed cable connection. thanks mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Mark D Lew wrote: My girlfriend has a WindowsXP system with Internet Explorer, which has been terribly buggy for about a month now. The whole time I've been telling her -- with playful exaggeration -- that Microsoft is evil and IE is garbage and if she had any sense she'd throw the whole thing out and get a real browser. Tonight, only a few days after a complete clean out of her hard drive and reinstallation of everything, which was supposed to fix everything, her IE is crashing again. In despair, she has called my bluff. OK, she says to me, I'll get rid of IE. So what should I install instead? I'm a lifelong Mac person, and I'm not all that computer-savvy anyway, so I'm not very good with practical suggestions. I know this list has plenty of smart PC users who know how to make Windows work without IE. Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Are there any other simple precautions that can be taken, besides declining to open random exe files that get sent to her? (That much I know, at least.) She's got a high-speed cable connection. I've been using Netscape forever and have no problems with it. You can get it at http://www.netscape.com. I know a lot of people have their complaints about it, and many are using the new FireFox browser which is available from http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ and many others use Opera, available from http://www.opera.com You'll find devotees of any of these -- I've also got IE on my computer (WinXPpro) and use it occasionally and have never had a problem. Good luck. The biggest precaution she can take is to install an antivirus program. I've been using McAfee for the past 4 years and have no problems with it. Check it out at www.mcafee.com -- others use Norton Antivirus, available from http://www.symantec.com/nav/nav_9xnt/ The other biggest precaution she should take is to install a software firewall in addition to the one built into WinXP. Both McAfee and Norton have them for sale. I use McAfee. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
At 01:31 AM 2/19/05 -0800, Mark D Lew wrote: Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Jari recommended Firefox (http://www.mozilla.org/). So do I -- even though I was an Opera user for years. Firefox takes no time to get used to, except for the surprise of no invasive popups. :) It does have some limited features (no option to auto-clear the cache on exit, no mouse gestures, poor implementation of print output, and weakness in reliably finding needed plugins), but it is stable and works with every website I regularly visit, including banking and auction sites. I admit it was hard to downshift from Opera to Firefox. I still think Opera has far and away the best features of any browser, but it is has some problems. It's pretty geeky to configure easily, and its people just don't listen to ordinary users' needs. It's hard-line about rejecting websites that aren't written perfectly. It's ID is rejected by some websites. It costs about $30 for the ad-free version. And it misbehaves on home networks, which was the real coup de grace for me. I'd been blaming the problem on my WinGate LAN server, but it turned out to be an Opera issue that's never been fixed. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Others have recommended Firefox, which would add my voice to. However, I wouldn't count Mozilla out, as it is a more mature program and has some things that Firefox does not yet have, such as the ability to bookmark a set of tabs. (Maybe Firefox has it, but I didn't find it. I'll probably be trying Firefox again in a few weeks.) YMMV. Maybe I'm just already accustomed to Mozilla's quirks. Mozilla, though, strikes me as slightly more stable. However, Mozilla is larger and somewhat more sluggish. I wouldn't uninstall IE (I'm not sure you really and truly can, especially if you use Outlook), as some websites only work with IE. However, when I visit those websites, I open IE specifically to visit those sites, close IE immediately after, and do a spyware scan. You'd be surprised what pops up on supposedly safe sites. So, even if you've abandoned IE, you should continue to download the patches from MS. I would also turn off cookies except for those sites that absolutely demand it. At 01:31 AM 2/19/2005 -0800, Mark D Lew wrote: My girlfriend has a WindowsXP system with Internet Explorer, which has been terribly buggy for about a month now. The whole time I've been telling her -- with playful exaggeration -- that Microsoft is evil and IE is garbage and if she had any sense she'd throw the whole thing out and get a real browser. Tonight, only a few days after a complete clean out of her hard drive and reinstallation of everything, which was supposed to fix everything, her IE is crashing again. In despair, she has called my bluff. OK, she says to me, I'll get rid of IE. So what should I install instead? I'm a lifelong Mac person, and I'm not all that computer-savvy anyway, so I'm not very good with practical suggestions. I know this list has plenty of smart PC users who know how to make Windows work without IE. Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Are there any other simple precautions that can be taken, besides declining to open random exe files that get sent to her? (That much I know, at least.) She's got a high-speed cable connection. thanks mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale - Bruce K. H. Kau[EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Aina Haina, Honolulu, Hawai'i Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning ... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
On 19 Feb 2005 at 7:02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 01:31 AM 2/19/05 -0800, Mark D Lew wrote: Can someone perhaps tell me what I should suggest to my girlfriend? What browser do you recommend instead, and where does she go to download and install it? Jari recommended Firefox (http://www.mozilla.org/). So do I -- even though I was an Opera user for years. Firefox takes no time to get used to, except for the surprise of no invasive popups. :) It does have some limited features (no option to auto-clear the cache on exit, no mouse gestures, poor implementation of print output, and weakness in reliably finding needed plugins), . . . The full Mozilla version supports both cache auto-clear and mouse gestures. It probably shares what you see as the poor print output in FireFox, though I'd disagree -- I've had far more problems with IE when printing (usually cutting off parts of the page, probably due to the same box-model bug that I posted about yesterday) than I've ever had with Gecko-based browsers. As to the plugins problem, once you have the commonly-used ones installed, it's no longer an issue. but it is stable and works with every website I regularly visit, including banking and auction sites. I admit it was hard to downshift from Opera to Firefox. I still think Opera has far and away the best features of any browser, . . . Opera feels clunky and hard-to-use for me. I've tried it many times, and I've just never warmed to it. I think it's huge default toolbar set gets in my way psychologically, and I just think tabs are superior to the multiple-document interface for a web browser. But it *is* a good browser. Keep in mind also that Apple, Opera and the Mozilla Foundation have created a coalition to promote support of W3C standards in their browsers. They are trying to work together as something of a counterweight to the Microsoft monolith. but it is has some problems. It's pretty geeky to configure easily, and its people just don't listen to ordinary users' needs. It's hard-line about rejecting websites that aren't written perfectly. It's ID is rejected by some websites. . . . But isn't it extremely easy to switch user agent strings in order to trick the web site into sending HTML it can render? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Hi Mark, I don't know if your girlfriend has broadband or not, but one thing to keep in mind is that if she's using WiFi (wireless internet), she's probably going through a NAT router already. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 19 Feb 2005, at 5:30 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Feb 19, 2005, at 10:31 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: So, these components are what I deem necessary for safe computing on an ordinary end user's Windows PC connected to the Internet full- time: 1. a NAT router (to block incoming connections) [... snip ...] Thanks, David, for a comprehensive reply. You had mentioned the NAT router in earlier threads, and that was one of the things I was trying to remember. I'll reread your entire post more carefully later, and hopefully I'll be able to make practical sense of it all. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
On Feb 19, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I don't know if your girlfriend has broadband or not, but one thing to keep in mind is that if she's using WiFi (wireless internet), she's probably going through a NAT router already. Nope, no WiFi there. That would be handy for when I bring my laptop over, but as long as I've got an ethernet jack to plug into, that's good enough. I just heard back from her, and it looks like she's already got four of David's five steps going. She got Firefox installed this morning, and it's working perfectly so far, and she's now using a non-IE email reader as well (a proprietary thing from Comcast). She already had a McAfee package running, and from the sound of it, it includes both AV and a software firewall. That leaves just the router, which we'll look into next. Hopefully, that will be the end of the problems. thanks to all mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Internet Explorer
Hi Mark, Don't forget to run Microsoft Anti-Spyware to clear out all the crap IE allowed on her system in the first place. http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx I have personally seen the enormous difference this makes on my Dad's P4. He had a NAT router, Norton AntiVirus *and* the Norton software firewall, but his hard drive *still* filled up with junk and spyware that reduced system performance to a crawl. After running MS Anti-Spyware, performance was back to the way it was when he first bought the computer. He still uses IE, though. Won't switch to FireFox, I think out of sheer stubbornness, because it would mean admitting that I was right about something. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 19 Feb 2005, at 6:17 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Feb 19, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I don't know if your girlfriend has broadband or not, but one thing to keep in mind is that if she's using WiFi (wireless internet), she's probably going through a NAT router already. Nope, no WiFi there. That would be handy for when I bring my laptop over, but as long as I've got an ethernet jack to plug into, that's good enough. I just heard back from her, and it looks like she's already got four of David's five steps going. She got Firefox installed this morning, and it's working perfectly so far, and she's now using a non-IE email reader as well (a proprietary thing from Comcast). She already had a McAfee package running, and from the sound of it, it includes both AV and a software firewall. That leaves just the router, which we'll look into next. Hopefully, that will be the end of the problems. thanks to all mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
