Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Hi All, I‘ve enjoyed reading the comments in this thread the past few days and thought I’d jump in with a few comments of my own. MakeMusic remains a company made up of musicians and run by musicians. I’ve personally spent a lifetime working as a professional musician, engraver, and music

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

There will only be one upgrade price. Anyone who upgrades will automatically get the full version. FWIW I’ve seen non-commercial clauses in edu software plenty of times. Steve P. > On 23 Apr 2018, at 00:21, David H. Bailey wrote: > >> On 4/22/2018 8:50 AM, Aaron

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/22/2018 8:50 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: > This confused me as well, but it appears that if you have a Dorico > educational license, you're not allowed to produce commercial work. See > question 9 at https://www.steinberg.net/en/education/faq.html > > Aaron. > That is so bizarre -- Steinberg

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

This confused me as well, but it appears that if you have a Dorico educational license, you're not allowed to produce commercial work. See question 9 at https://www.steinberg.net/en/education/faq.html Aaron. On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 5:43 AM, David H. Bailey <

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Why would your "educational" license force you to redo everything in Finale? Are there restrictions on what sort of results you can get from Dorico under the "educational" license? David H. Bailey On 4/21/2018 5:25 PM, Steve Parker wrote: > >> On 21 Apr 2018, at 13:33, Robert Patterson

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

It seems that must of the function that Finale users have with Staff Styles is lacking in Dorico at the moment.  I don't think there is any support for slash notation or rhythmic notation, for example.  That rules it out for me for the time being. I cannot find any reference to one-bar and

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Steve, I am a little confused.  As I understand it, all the licenses have the same functionality.  If you qualified for the educational license, doesn't that give you full use of Dorico?  I don't understand why you would duplicate the work in Finale. This is relevant to me because most of my

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

> On 21 Apr 2018, at 13:33, Robert Patterson > wrote: > > Wait. Is Dorico at the truly professional level? All I've heard is that it > has the potential to be but isn't there yet. I mean, one of the Dorico > users in this thread

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I have just watched the youtube videos and it occured to me that they have borrowed a lot from InDesign, which I know farely well. I might like it. Who knows? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/21/2018 12:04 PM, wit...@nctv.com wrote: > I'm so tired of this thread. Finale users: get on with it. Find a new subject. > Please > [snip] If you want a new discussion then you have to start it. Ask a question, air a complaint, whatever. Nobody leads this group, the conversation goes

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

rote: >> I'm so tired of this thread. Finale users: get on with it. Find a >> new subject. >> Please >> >> -Original Message- >> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu <finale-boun...@shsu.edu> On Behalf >> Of Skjalg Bjørstad >> Sent: Saturda

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

e-boun...@shsu.edu> On Behalf Of Skjalg > Bjørstad > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:59 AM > To: finale@shsu.edu > Subject: Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy? > > Don’t know about the others, but the major shortcomings in Finale’s voiced > linked parts are -Not ac

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Voiced linked parts are indeed fatally flawed for having no access to special tools. The irony is that there is no longer any need for this restriction and they could essentially just turn it off. I have complained about it in all the appropriate fora. Plugins are quite available in linked parts.

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

inale-boun...@shsu.edu> On Behalf Of > Skjalg Bjørstad > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:59 AM > To: finale@shsu.edu > Subject: Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy? > > Don’t know about the others, but the major shortcomings in Finale’s voiced > linked parts are -Not access to

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I'm so tired of this thread. Finale users: get on with it. Find a new subject. Please -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu <finale-boun...@shsu.edu> On Behalf Of Skjalg Bjørstad Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:59 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Don’t know about the others, but the major shortcomings in Finale’s voiced linked parts are -Not access to special tools -No enharmonic flips Another limitation for linked part: Plug-ins/Script not accessible. (Scripts are accessible with a workaround, but...) Skjalg - for anledningen på nett

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Anybody who can do ANYTHING with percussion parts with ANY of these products has my boundless admiration.  I find all the products unbelievably tedious when it comes to percussion parts.  There must be a better way. Regarding Dorico being ready for professional use, I agree with David that it

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

The nice comment from David prompts me to weigh in for a moment. Much of my output in Finale is good — and close to serious engraving standards. That’s partly because I have the luxury of being able to work slowly, and partly because I work mostly in a idiom with which I am familiar. I have

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Following this discussion with interest. As a church musician, a great deal of my work involves lyrics. I’d appreciate observations about using lyrics in Dorico (especially as compared to Finale). Thanks George Brooke Sent from my iPad > On Apr 20, 2018, at 1:07 PM, David H. Bailey

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I have followed this thread with interest. I continue to use Finale because I am too lazy to learn any other, but I use it quite detachedly. As a percussionist I would like to be able to notate a much greater range of nuances than the program allows, and then to have the sounds played back. I

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Could you elaborate on what you find lacking in Finale's linked parts vs. Sib. (or even Dorico)? Some of that lack might be addressable with a plugin. On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 9:02 AM, David H. Bailey < dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote: > There are professional engraving projects being

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

There are professional engraving projects being done with Dorico. If you want to see what it is capable of there are many youtube videos addressing various aspects of Dorico, and I would say that it is indeed capable of very elegant professional, publishable output. Yes, you read that one of

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

> And with the entry of Dorico at the truly professional music engraving level Wait. Is Dorico at the truly professional level? All I've heard is that it has the potential to be but isn't there yet. I mean, one of the Dorico users in this thread even said they export to Finale for the finished

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/20/2018 7:13 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > I take your point that they "could" do some of the abstraction that is > inherent in the newer programs.  I am not seeing anything that suggests > to me they are at all interested in matching up to Dorico.  Indeed, the > only recent statements I could

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I take your point that they "could" do some of the abstraction that is inherent in the newer programs.  I am not seeing anything that suggests to me they are at all interested in matching up to Dorico.  Indeed, the only recent statements I could find were very much oriented to SmartMusic and

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I'm saying you are selling Finale short. While I agree 100% that cautionaries (for example) are a problem, you are sellling it way short to characterize it as a mere note paint program. (Accis in particular, are now completely controlled by code, as opposed to relying on the document data, so all

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I didn't really mean that as an exact date or even a comment specifically about Finale.  What I should have said is "the 1980s way of doing things." All of the notation products of that generation (Encore, Overture, Finale, etc) can reasonably be called "note paint programs".  That is to say,

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/20/2018 11:33 AM, Lynn David Newton wrote: > Forgive me for elbowing in on this discussion. I'll ask my question > up front: > > I notice (checking sweetwater.com) that there is a "trade-up" path, > a way to acquire Dorico for considerably less than the standard > price if I am a user of a

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

> the 1985 way In fairness, the 1985 way was ProCo. If you mean the 1989 way, it was this . While I'm the first to recognize Finale's limitations, I think you a being overly harsh. On Fri, Apr

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Forgive me for elbowing in on this discussion. I'll ask my question up front: I notice (checking sweetwater.com) that there is a "trade-up" path, a way to acquire Dorico for considerably less than the standard price if I am a user of a competing product. Does that mean I have to somehow *give

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Robert Patterson wrote: > > I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I > don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I > don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why. > > My question about different layouts is, are they

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/20/2018 8:28 AM, Martin Nickless wrote: > Hi > May I just ask what may seem very simplistic but what difference does dorico > have on somebody i.e. myself that is primarily writing big band scores and > small jazz groups quartets quintets etc > to my mind finale works perfectly well for

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Exactly that’s why I have recently purchased the bill Duncan chord fonts for example but thank you for a great answer Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Apr 2018, at 15:00, David H. Bailey wrote: > >> On 4/20/2018 8:28 AM, Martin Nickless wrote: >> Hi >> May I just ask what

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I am, for one, very optimistic. I see no evidence that Finale is a dead end. I have had Finale since the start and every update is a big improvement of a great product that does everything I need it to do (And i am a very heavy, hard core user). Terry Vosbein > If you can pardon my rant,

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I have spent just 90 minutes hands on, and it is already obvious to me that I will save loads of time on layout edits and other little niceties like cautionary accidentals. Things like cautionary accidentals, beaming, notating ties correction, multi-measure rests and many other things

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Hi May I just ask what may seem very simplistic but what difference does dorico have on somebody i.e. myself that is primarily writing big band scores and small jazz groups quartets quintets etc to my mind finale works perfectly well for those type of projects Martin Sent from my iPhone > On

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I guess I don't understand how a master page set works. What advantage does it bring for working on a few instruments at a time? On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 5:45 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: > > > > Ooops -- I guess the musician in me was more powerful than the French >

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Ooops -- I guess the musician in me was more powerful than the French student. What clef does the "voilà" use? The French violin clef of course. David H. Bailey On 4/19/2018 9:46 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: > > >> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:18 PM, David H. Bailey

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Ooops -- I guess the musician in me was more powerful than the French student. What clef does the "voilà" use? The French violin clef of course. David H. Bailey On 4/19/2018 9:46 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: > > >> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:18 PM, David H. Bailey wrote:

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

It also deals with doubling and instrument changes automatically. You basically have different staves for the same player in galley view, and it sorts it everywhere else. Cueing other instruments is also so easy that I provide many more cues than I used to. I’m just giving these as examples

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

The linked parts work well in Dorico, with a continuing discussion on what should/should not be linked and how best to override. They basically work like Finale now, but will become more flexible and user-preferanceable.. For copying part layouts, Dorico has master-page sets, which can be

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:18 PM, David H. Bailey wrote: > > On 4/19/2018 7:58 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: >> n choose whichever instruments out of the total > original ensemble one wants to use in any particular "flow." You simply > select the instruments from the

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/19/2018 7:58 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I > don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I > don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why. > > My question about different

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why. My question about different layouts is, are they anything like linked parts? Because an

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

David, I think you have very accurately captured the situation with the text I excerpted below.  And if we go back to the commentary offered by the new CEO upon acquisition, many of us thought his comments were truly bizarre, as they seemed to describe music notation as a fitness coach would

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/19/2018 4:04 PM, Steve Parker wrote: > Dorico’s workflow is interesting. > I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty which > need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to > different layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Dorico’s workflow is interesting. I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty which need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to different layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to pick and replace. > On 19 Apr 2018,

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: [snip] > Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the > state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to > anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any > indication the company even

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Leaving aside what happened with BIAB, how is Dorico more automatic than Finale with respect to beams and ties? (I don't doubt it is. I'm just curious how.) I tend to distrust a lot of automation, unless it can be overridden on a case-by-case basis. What I expect the company that owns Finale to

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I used BIAB harmonization a lot, especially to get a quick draft of an arrangement.  I usually re-harmonized manually for the final copy, but it was a very useful way to get something going quickly. Over time, this degraded.  Eventually it became very destructive, as whenever you would run the

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Tempo tool and BIAB were significant features? Color me surprised. I'd be interested to know if others found them to be significant. Personally I never used BIAB even once, and the Tempo Tool only rarely and only up until Human Playback was a thing. But I admit I'm not that fussy about playback.

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Tempo tool.  BIAB harmonization. On 4/19/2018 9:10 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: > Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I work the same way. Steve > On Apr 19, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Robert Patterson > wrote: > > Perhaps because I only view one page at a time? I find having the others on > screen distracting, and I prefer to zoom in to the page I'm working on to > fill the screen.

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Perhaps because I only view one page at a time? I find having the others on screen distracting, and I prefer to zoom in to the page I'm working on to fill the screen. Therefore, I have basically never used multipage layout. On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Fiskum, Steve

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Hey Robert, I would love to hear how you make that happen. Screen redraws take up too much time when doing detailed layouts. I bought new computers thinking that might be the issue...did not help. Turned on “Open in Low Resolution.” I am usually doing orchestral or band projects when I see

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Wow. I have the opposite experience with FIn25. It's much faster than Fin12 on Mac (at least the way I use it). On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Fiskum, Steve wrote: > Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news) it’s > going to be hard to figure

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news) it’s going to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A big loss for all of us old timers. My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to FIN12. Steve Fiskum

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Thank you for this link Robert. You can sort by 'planned' and I hope that those things are carried through. Since the forums were closed I've lost a lot of interest in Finale. I use it all the time, but I no longer correspond regularly with people about it or champion it like I used to. I'd miss

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I really miss the mirror tool. I guess I’m the only one, but a major part of my workflow was based on it. Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone. > 19. apr. 2018 kl. 15:10 skrev Robert Patterson : > > Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot. (The biggest loss of functionality for me came in Fin09, when they dropped note-attached expressions.) The main thing I remember in F25 is the screwed up Mac Print Dialog. But I've learned to live with it. (Heck, I almost don't

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Like watching paint dry. On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:59 PM Christopher Smith < christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote: > Hahaha! Yes, of course! > > Christopher > > > On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa < > shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote: > > > > > > i find these tools quite useful,

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

Hahaha! Yes, of course! Christopher > On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa > wrote: > > > i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and > platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the new > music notation

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the new music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music notation, western or other. https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo > All that said, I’m

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

I don’t have any insights as to what their plans might be, although given the decades of work that I’ve done with the program, I certainly hope they keep it alive. Mostly I’m responding here to second (LOUDLY) the desire for vastly improved layout capabilities. It’s only thanks to the

[Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

The current owners took over the company in 2014.  They delivered version 25, which provided 64-bit support and a few other odds and ends -- while dropping some rather significant functionality.  I did find Version 25 to be a little more stable, so I have lived with the feature deprecation.