Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

2019-03-12 16:56 GMT+01:00, Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl
[firebird-support]
>
> FILTER has been implemented in Firebird 4. See "FILTER Clause for
> Aggregate Functions" in the Firebird 4 beta 1 release notes, or
> http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/CORE-5768
Great!

> Note though that the order you mention is not right, it right order
> would be count(other_col) filter (where other_col > soime_val) over(),
> or filter-clause before window-clause(that is also the order in
> PostgreSQL).
You're right :)

-- 
regards,
Michał Kurczabiński

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2019-03-12 13:13, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> I forgot about very useful feature lile  FILTER on window functions
> select some_col, count(other_col) over() FILTER ( where other_col >
> soime_val)  Maybe in  FB 4.0 it might be implemented

FILTER has been implemented in Firebird 4. See "FILTER Clause for 
Aggregate Functions" in the Firebird 4 beta 1 release notes, or 
http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/CORE-5768

Note though that the order you mention is not right, it right order 
would be count(other_col) filter (where other_col > soime_val) over(), 
or filter-clause before window-clause(that is also the order in 
PostgreSQL).

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

I forgot about very useful feature lile  FILTER on window functions
select some_col, count(other_col) over() FILTER ( where other_col >
soime_val)  Maybe in  FB 4.0 it might be implemented


2018-11-10 9:47 GMT+01:00, Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl
[firebird-support] :
> On 9-11-2018 22:51, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com
> [firebird-support] wrote:
>> First thought:
>>
>> range/rows  between unbounded preceding and unbounded following /
>> current row, etc..
>
> Will be added in Firebird 4 (already present in the Firebird 4 Alpha 1).
>
>> own aggregate functions in conjunction with window functions,
>
> There was a discussion about it on firebird-devel back in
> September/October, but I don't think there was anything conclusive yet.
>
>> list(column) over ...
>
> list does work as a window function, just not with an order by clause
> (that produces: feature is not supported, LIST is not supported in
> ordered windows); I'm not sure why it isn't supported for ordered
> windows though.
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Rotteveel
>


-- 
pozdrawiam / regards,
Michał Kurczabiński

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 9-11-2018 22:51, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> First thought:
> 
> range/rows  between unbounded preceding and unbounded following /
> current row, etc..

Will be added in Firebird 4 (already present in the Firebird 4 Alpha 1).

> own aggregate functions in conjunction with window functions,

There was a discussion about it on firebird-devel back in 
September/October, but I don't think there was anything conclusive yet.

> list(column) over ...

list does work as a window function, just not with an order by clause 
(that produces: feature is not supported, LIST is not supported in 
ordered windows); I'm not sure why it isn't supported for ordered 
windows though.

Mark

-- 
Mark Rotteveel

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

2018-11-07 19:06 GMT+01:00, Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl
[firebird-support] :
> On 2018-11-07 16:28, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com
> [firebird-support] wrote:
>> Firebird also doesn't support data partitioning, extended window
>> functions
>
> What are you really missing in existing window functions support?
>
> Mark
>

First thought:

range/rows  between unbounded preceding and unbounded following /
current row, etc..

own aggregate functions in conjunction with window functions,

list(column) over ...


Regards,
Michał Kurczabiński

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

2018-11-07 16:33 GMT+01:00, Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com
[firebird-support] :
> 07.11.2018 16:28, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]
> wrote:
>> Firebird also doesn't support data partitioning, extended window
>> functions
>
>On the other hand transactions in PostgreSQL are strange: they
> automatically rolled
> back on any statement error.
>
>
> --
>WBR, SD.
>

true thing ...
-- 
Regards,
Michał Kurczabiński

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com [firebird-support]]

08.11.2018 0:27, Dalton Calford dalton.calf...@gmail.com [firebird-support] 
wrote:
>  > Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in 
> community Firebird 4.0
>  > Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.
> 
> Great news!
> 
>  >  (6) High Available Clustering
>  >  agree, it will be based on top of the replication.
> Sounds like this would be in 5.0

   FireSwarm is a replication solution by IBPhoenix that allow to create 
Master-Master 
HA/LB cluster right now with Avalerion (modified Firebird 3) and in future with 
Firebird 4 
(if support of Changed Data Capture plugins will be implemented in it).
   Feel free to take part in alpha testing.


-- 
   WBR, SD.






++

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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Hello Dalton,

I am totally agree with you - all these features would be definitely good.

Regards,
Alexey




Hi Alexey,

Just my 2cents from someone who has not had time to review the code 
and could not find a breakdown of the firebird code structure in a 
very cursory search.



> (1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can 
simulate MS style schema with a proper implementation)

>   agree, we need schema support

If we have a system table that has the columns (parent, child, type, 
internal_reference) and had it hold the user facing table names, while 
referencing a system generated name (the internal reference) that is 
used in blr and other tasks, then most of the work would be adding a 
name lookup function to the parser which uses a recursive CTE to do 
the name matching.  This would be the least amount of work and would 
mostly involve the parser.



> (2) Cube SQL support
>  would be good, but not critical,

This is hard and can wait, because it is mostly making the 
api's/result sets be bug for bug compatible with the MS platforms


> (3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
>  would be good, but not critical

This can wait, but, I do believe it is critical in many work places.

> (4) Jobs with Schedular
>  would be good, not critical, can be implemented with bundled 
product (not core)


All this needs is some system tables to be created and parser support 
added.  The actual implementation can be written by third parties as 
long as the tables exist and are documented.


> (5) Replication
> Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in 
community Firebird 4.0

> Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.

Great news!

>  (6) High Available Clustering
>  agree, it will be based on top of the replication.
Sounds like this would be in 5.0

Overall, things like JSON can be done with packages, stored procs and 
psql functions, not needing anything from the developers, but the 
schema and schedular support could be covered by someone who knows the 
parser well.


Best regards

Dalton





On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 14:32, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com 
 [firebird-support] 
> wrote:


Hello Dalton,


>Where do you see the list of features that are destined to be in 5?

There is no list of features yet. However, as a member of
Technical Task Group, I will work to include into 5.0 the 3 main
features: multi-master replication, partitioning/table spaces,
schema support.



>I have been a supporter of firebird for years but there are
several things that hold it back

My opinion:

(1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can
simulate MS style schema with a proper implementation)

agree, we need schema support

(2) Cube SQL support
would be good, but not critical

(3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
would be good, but not critical

(4) Jobs with Schedular
would be good, not critical, can be implemented with bundled
product (not core)

(5) Replication
Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in
community Firebird 4.0
Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.

(6) High Available Clustering
agree, it will be based on top of the replication.

Regards,
Alexey



On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 12:19, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com
 [firebird-support]
mailto:firebird-support@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Thank you!

In my opinion, Firebird will close the gap with PG in main
features in 2
years, with FB5.0 version.

Regards,
Alexey Kovyazin
IBSurgeon www.ib-aid.com 

On 07.11.2018 19:58, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
m.ton...@upscene.com 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Hello Alexey,
>
>> What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true
that it is
>> possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only
when it will be
>> invoked?
> Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle
allows you to
> 'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are
stored in the
> database
> anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database
Workbench, these
> routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently
invalid.
>
>> Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you
can create
>> stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with
wrong list of
>> parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
> I'll let you know.
>
>
> With regards,
>
> Martijn Tonies
> Upscene Productions
> 

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

['Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support]]

Hello Alexey,

>What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
>invoked?

Yes, some errors are 'allowed', like a mismatch in parameter name in
declaration and code. You'll get an error when executing, eg:

' column "p_inventory_id2" does not exist '

A wrong variable name as the target for an assignment, however, isn't 
allowed.

>Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list of
>parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?

Yes, correct. Example:
CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION public.last_day(Timestamp)

Call v_d = last_day(); results in:
' function last_day() does not exist '

PostgreSQL supports multiple stored routine languages out of the box: 'sql'
and 'plpgsql', with different (weird) syntax.

And it supports parameter overloading > functions with the same name but
a different number of parameters.

Also, triggers are different > you need a stored function that returns 
'trigger',
and when creating a trigger, you assign it that function. Triggers don't 
have
code.


Hope this helps.


With regards,

Martijn Tonies
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com


On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an
> interactive database development tool;)







++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu 
there.

Also search the knowledgebases at 
http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/

++


Yahoo Groups Links










++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Hello All,

As there are many people involved and truly interested in further 
Firebird development in this thread, I would like to remind, that 
Firebird is funded by Firebird Foundation sponsors and members, and 
there is always ability to boost development with money sponsorship and 
donations.

If you want to help with it, consider to become a sponsor
https://www.firebirdsql.org/en/how-to-become-a-sponsor/

For example, with extra USD$36k/year FF could allocate the additional 
grant for C++ developer, to implement more features in the short timeframe.
36k  = 3 Platinum Sponsors (12k/year = 1k per month ) or 6 Gold (6k/year 
= 500 usd per month) or 12 Silver (3k) - or 36 Bronze sponsors (1k/year 
= 80 USD/month).

The companies - Platinum sponsors have access to Task Technical Group 
and can influence and support their desired features in Firebird, other 
sponsors have a voting membership in Firebird Foundation (which can be 
bought separately by USD$300/year).

Regards,
Alexey Kovyazin
IBSurgeon

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl [firebird-support]]

For me highest priority are grouping sets and pivot.If we are talking about 
triggers/procedures. For me there is one big disadvantage about string 
processing.Why we can not use indexed access to string? This should be 
simplified.E.g. declare variable A char(50)A[4] = 'x'A[7] = A[8]I wait 
personally for FB4 greate features like- lateral join availability- 63 
identifiers- big numericsBut as summary. Firebird is really strong. I really 
like FB stored procedures and triggers. I like transaction processing and its 
options. FB3 have good possibility to extend funtionality by udr.We can create 
psql functions.Regards,Karol Bieniaszewski
null

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Dalton Calford dalton.calf...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

Hi Alexey,

Just my 2cents from someone who has not had time to review the code and
could not find a breakdown of the firebird code structure in a very cursory
search.


> (1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can simulate
MS style schema with a proper implementation)
>   agree, we need schema support

If we have a system table that has the columns (parent, child, type,
internal_reference) and had it hold the user facing table names, while
referencing a system generated name (the internal reference) that is used
in blr and other tasks, then most of the work would be adding a name lookup
function to the parser which uses a recursive CTE to do the name matching.
 This would be the least amount of work and would mostly involve the parser..


> (2) Cube SQL support
>  would be good, but not critical,

This is hard and can wait, because it is mostly making the api's/result
sets be bug for bug compatible with the MS platforms

> (3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
>  would be good, but not critical

This can wait, but, I do believe it is critical in many work places.

> (4) Jobs with Schedular
>  would be good, not critical, can be implemented with bundled product
(not core)

All this needs is some system tables to be created and parser support
added.  The actual implementation can be written by third parties as long
as the tables exist and are documented.

> (5) Replication
> Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in
community Firebird 4.0
> Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.

Great news!

>  (6) High Available Clustering
>  agree, it will be based on top of the replication.
Sounds like this would be in 5.0

Overall, things like JSON can be done with packages, stored procs and psql
functions, not needing anything from the developers, but the schema and
schedular support could be covered by someone who knows the parser well.

Best regards

Dalton





On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 14:32, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com
[firebird-support]  wrote:

>
>
> Hello Dalton,
>
>
> >Where do you see the list of features that are destined to be in 5?
>
> There is no list of features yet. However, as a member of Technical Task
> Group, I will work to include into 5.0 the 3 main features: multi-master
> replication, partitioning/table spaces, schema support.
>
>


>
> >I have been a supporter of firebird for years but there are several
> things that hold it back
>
> My opinion:
>
> (1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can simulate
> MS style schema with a proper implementation)
>
> agree, we need schema support
>
> (2) Cube SQL support
> would be good, but not critical
>
> (3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
> would be good, but not critical
>
> (4) Jobs with Schedular
> would be good, not critical, can be implemented with bundled product (not
> core)
>
> (5) Replication
> Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in
> community Firebird 4.0
> Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.
>
> (6) High Available Clustering
> agree, it will be based on top of the replication.
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 12:19, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com
> [firebird-support]  wrote:
>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> In my opinion, Firebird will close the gap with PG in main features in 2
>> years, with FB5.0 version.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alexey Kovyazin
>> IBSurgeon www.ib-aid.com
>>
>> On 07.11.2018 19:58, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
>> m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
>> > Hello Alexey,
>> >
>> >> What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>> >> possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
>> >> invoked?
>> > Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle allows you
>> to
>> > 'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are stored in the
>> > database
>> > anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database Workbench,
>> these
>> > routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently invalid.
>> >
>> >> Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>> >> stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list
>> of
>> >> parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
>> > I'll let you know.
>> >
>> >
>> > With regards,
>> >
>> > Martijn Tonies
>> > Upscene Productions
>> > http://www.upscene.com
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Alexey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
>> > m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
>> >> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing
>> an
>> >> interactive database development tool;)
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > ++
>> >
>> > Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
>> > on the main 

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2018-11-06 14:44, Fabiano Bonin fabiano.bo...@personalsoft.com.br 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> There is a 31 characters table name limit, the can bring some
> restrictions if you are planning to create a multi-database
> application and you use big table names.

This limit will be doubled (to 63) in Firebird 4.

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Hello Dalton,


>Where do you see the list of features that are destined to be in 5?

There is no list of features yet. However, as a member of Technical Task 
Group, I will work to include into 5.0 the 3 main features: multi-master 
replication, partitioning/table spaces, schema support.



>I have been a supporter of firebird for years but there are several 
things that hold it back


My opinion:

(1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can 
simulate MS style schema with a proper implementation)


agree, we need schema support

(2) Cube SQL support
would be good, but not critical

(3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
would be good, but not critical

(4) Jobs with Schedular
would be good, not critical, can be implemented with bundled product 
(not core)


(5) Replication
Master-Slave is already in HQbird for 2.5 and 3.0, and will be in 
community Firebird 4.0

Master-Master is the next step for 5.0.

(6) High Available Clustering
agree, it will be based on top of the replication.

Regards,
Alexey



On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 12:19, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com 
 [firebird-support] 
> wrote:


   Thank you!

   In my opinion, Firebird will close the gap with PG in main features
   in 2
   years, with FB5.0 version.

   Regards,
   Alexey Kovyazin
   IBSurgeon www.ib-aid.com 

   On 07.11.2018 19:58, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
   m.ton...@upscene.com 
   [firebird-support] wrote:
> Hello Alexey,
>
>> What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>> possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it
   will be
>> invoked?
> Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle
   allows you to
> 'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are stored in the
> database
> anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database
   Workbench, these
> routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently invalid.
>
>> Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>> stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong
   list of
>> parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
> I'll let you know.
>
>
> With regards,
>
> Martijn Tonies
> Upscene Productions
> http://www.upscene.com
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
>
>
> On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
> m.ton...@upscene.com 
   [firebird-support] wrote:
>> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example,
   developing an
>> interactive database development tool;)
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> ++
>
> Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the
   left-side menu
> there.
>
> Also search the knowledgebases at
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
> ++
> 
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> ++
>
> Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the
   left-side menu there.
>
> Also search the knowledgebases at
   http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
> ++
> 
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>



   

   

   ++

   Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
   on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side
   menu there.

   Also search the knowledgebases at
   http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/

   ++
   

   Yahoo Groups Links


   firebird-support-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
   

RE: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[edmende...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

Kjell,

 

In our shop we are using Firebird 2.5x for Data warehouse and Postgresql 10..x 
for other projects. 

 

Below is my list of Pros and Cons between the two.  The list below is my 
experience with the two products. 

 

PostgreSQL over Firebird 2.5

 

Pros

*   Table Partitions are available
*   Matierialized Views
*   Json & Jsonb support
*   Various aggregation functions available
*   Different Indexing (gist, gin ) 
*   No 31 character object or column name limits
*   Many foreign data wrappers available 
*   Bulk copy support, even in .NET framework using NPGSQL client library
*   Works with EF Core 2.x 
*   Can be used as a Document DB (NoSQL) using the MARTEN .NET data 
provider.
*   Schemas available
*   You can use CitusData or other products to turn your DB into a 
Distributive DB
*   Postgresql is available in the Azure and AWS offerings.
*   Parallel Queries are available in PostgreSQL 10 and up. 
*   Window functions available
*   You have Row Level Security ( although I think FB3.x has this also)

Cons

*   You can save functions(stored procedures) with invalid syntax which 
will be made aware at runtime only.
*   You can’t re-order the columns in a table once they have been added. 
*   Not offered as an Embedded DB.
*   The Procedural Language is not as straight forward as Firebird’s
*   The Server’s directory structure for the Databases is something I need 
getting accustomed to. I don’t a DB can be easily transferred using OS Copy. 

 

Firebird 2.5 over PostgreSQL

Pros

*   Procedural Language is easier to work with (IMHO).
*   Triggers are easier to implement, to me (granted I have had limited 
experience with triggers in PostgreSQL).
*   Can re-position column order in a table without having to re-create the 
table.
*   Can be used as an embedded DB.
*   A Database is a single file on Disk, you can copy it to another Server 
and start using it.

Cons

*   No Bulk Copy support
*   EF Core doesn’t work with Firebird 2.1

 

 

From: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com  
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:45 AM
To: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

 

  

Hi, 

We've been using Firebird "forever". For upcoming projects and also possible 
replacement in existing ones, we're considering PostgreSQL. 

What would you say is the pros and cons of Firebird vs. PostgreSQL? 

I'm aware that the answers may very well be different depending on application 
and usage patterns, but I would like to start with considerations i general 
terms, e.g. framework support (e.g. Entity Framework), admin tools availability 
and usability (Windows and possibly Mac), query performance in general, 
resource load, SQL standard compliance, stability, development progress (new 
features, fixing bugs, ...) etc. 

Mvh, 
Kjell 

[cid:part1.5A72A320.2CD4BAEA@marknadsinformation.se] 

Kjell Rilbe 
Telefon: 08-761 06 55 
Mobil: 0733-44 24 64 

Marknadsinformation i Sverige AB 
Ulvsundavägen 106C 
168 67 Bromma 
www.marknadsinformation.se 
<http://www.marknadsinformation.se%3chttp:/www.marknadsinformation.se/> 
<http://www.marknadsinformation.se/> 
08-514 905 90 

[Företagskontakt.se]<http://www.f%C3%B6retagskontakt.se/> 
[Personkontakt.se]<http://www.personkontakt.se/> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Dalton Calford dalton.calf...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

Hi Alexey,

Where do you see the list of features that are destined to be in 5?
I have been a supporter of firebird for years but there are several things
that hold it back

(1) Schema support as per oracle not microsoft (although you can simulate
MS style schema with a proper implementation)
(2) Cube SQL support
(3) Linked Databases in addition to the psql connections
(4) Jobs with Schedular
(5) Replication
(6) High Available Clustering

best regards

Dalton

On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 12:19, Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com
[firebird-support]  wrote:

> Thank you!
>
> In my opinion, Firebird will close the gap with PG in main features in 2
> years, with FB5.0 version.
>
> Regards,
> Alexey Kovyazin
> IBSurgeon www.ib-aid.com
>
> On 07.11.2018 19:58, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
> m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> > Hello Alexey,
> >
> >> What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
> >> possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
> >> invoked?
> > Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle allows you
> to
> > 'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are stored in the
> > database
> > anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database Workbench, these
> > routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently invalid.
> >
> >> Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
> >> stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list of
> >> parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
> > I'll let you know.
> >
> >
> > With regards,
> >
> > Martijn Tonies
> > Upscene Productions
> > http://www.upscene.com
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alexey
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
> > m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> >> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an
> >> interactive database development tool;)
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > ++
> >
> > Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> > on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu
> > there.
> >
> > Also search the knowledgebases at
> > http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
> >
> > ++
> > 
> >
> > Yahoo Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > 
> >
> > ++
> >
> > Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> > on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu
> there.
> >
> > Also search the knowledgebases at
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
> >
> > ++
> > 
> >
> > Yahoo Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> ++
>
> Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu
> there.
>
> Also search the knowledgebases at
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
> ++
> 
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl [firebird-support]]

On 2018-11-07 16:28, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Firebird also doesn't support data partitioning, extended window 
> functions

What are you really missing in existing window functions support?

Mark

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

['Marcin Bury' marcin.b...@studio-delfi.pl [firebird-support]]

Alexey

I can confirm that it is possible to 'compile' SP with error that will 
appear during SP execution. Probably the most annoying thing in the 
world for Firebird users ;-)
I hate it.

Marcin

-- Wiadomość oryginalna --
Od: "Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]" 

Do: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com
Data: 07.11.2018 17:37:00
Temat: Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

>Martijn,
>
>What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
>invoked?
>
>Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list 
>of
>parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
>
>Regards,
>Alexey
>
>
>
>On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
>m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
>>Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing 
>>an
>>interactive database development tool;)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>++
>
>Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
>on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side 
>menu there.
>
>Also search the knowledgebases at 
>http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
>++
>
>
>Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Thank you!

In my opinion, Firebird will close the gap with PG in main features in 2 
years, with FB5.0 version.

Regards,
Alexey Kovyazin
IBSurgeon www.ib-aid.com

On 07.11.2018 19:58, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' 
m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> Hello Alexey,
>
>> What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>> possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
>> invoked?
> Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle allows you to
> 'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are stored in the
> database
> anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database Workbench, these
> routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently invalid.
>
>> Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>> stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list of
>> parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?
> I'll let you know.
>
>
> With regards,
>
> Martijn Tonies
> Upscene Productions
> http://www.upscene.com
>
> Regards,
> Alexey
>
>
>
> On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
> m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
>> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an
>> interactive database development tool;)
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> ++
>
> Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu
> there.
>
> Also search the knowledgebases at
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
> ++
> 
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> ++
>
> Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
> on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu 
> there.
>
> Also search the knowledgebases at 
> http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/
>
> ++
> 
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>







++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

['Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support]]

Hello Alexey,

>What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is
>possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be
>invoked?

Unsure, will try tomorrow. Do note, that for example, Oracle allows you to
'save' or 'compile' invalid stored routines > they are stored in the 
database
anyway and you can ask for a list of errors. In Database Workbench, these
routines are shown in red as to signal they are currently invalid.

>Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create
>stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list of
>parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?

I'll let you know.


With regards,

Martijn Tonies
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com

Regards,
Alexey



On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)'
m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an
> interactive database development tool;)







++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu 
there.

Also search the knowledgebases at 
http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/

++


Yahoo Groups Links










++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/join
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<*> To change settings via email:
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firebird-support-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Alexey Kovyazin a...@ib-aid.com [firebird-support]]

Martijn,

What about compilation of stored procedures - is it true that it is 
possible to create SP with errors, and they appear only when it will be 
invoked?

Also, about checking the parameters - is it true that you can create 
stored procedure which invokes other stored procedure with wrong list of 
parameters, and it will give error only at the execution time?

Regards,
Alexey



On 07.11.2018 19:27, 'Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' 
m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support] wrote:
> Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an
> interactive database development tool;)







++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/join
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<*> To change settings via email:
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<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

['Martijn Tonies (Upscene Productions)' m.ton...@upscene.com [firebird-support]]

Yes, it's true and it's rather annoying when, for example, developing an 
interactive database development tool ;)


With regards,

Martijn Tonies
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com

Database Workbench - developer tool for Oracle, MS SQL Server, PostgreSQL,
SQL Anywhere, MySQL, InterBase, NexusDB and Firebird.

-Original Message- 
From: Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com [firebird-support]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 5:17 PM
To: firebird-support@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

07.11.2018 17:11, liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl 
[firebird-support] wrote:
> Wow is this true?

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/postgresql_transactions.htm

"Transactions can be started using BEGIN TRANSACTION or simply BEGIN 
command. Such
transactions usually persist until the next COMMIT or ROLLBACK command is 
encountered. But
a transaction will also ROLLBACK if the database is closed *or if an error 
occurs.*"


-- 
   WBR, SD.






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu 
there.

Also search the knowledgebases at 
http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/

++


Yahoo Groups Links










++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
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<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com [firebird-support]]

07.11.2018 17:11, liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> Wow is this true?

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/postgresql/postgresql_transactions.htm

"Transactions can be started using BEGIN TRANSACTION or simply BEGIN command. 
Such 
transactions usually persist until the next COMMIT or ROLLBACK command is 
encountered. But 
a transaction will also ROLLBACK if the database is closed *or if an error 
occurs.*"


-- 
   WBR, SD.






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/join
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<*> To change settings via email:
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firebird-support-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[liviuslivius liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl [firebird-support]]

Wow is this true? If yes in my opinion going to PG is a mistake.Regards,Karol 
Bieniaszewski
null

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Dimitry Sibiryakov s...@ibphoenix.com [firebird-support]]

07.11.2018 16:28, Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support] 
wrote:
> Firebird also doesn't support data partitioning, extended window functions

   On the other hand transactions in PostgreSQL are strange: they automatically 
rolled 
back on any statement error.


-- 
   WBR, SD.






++

Visit http://www.firebirdsql.org and click the Documentation item
on the main (top) menu.  Try FAQ and other links from the left-side menu there.

Also search the knowledgebases at http://www.ibphoenix.com/resources/documents/ 

++


Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firebird-support/

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Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Michal Kurczabinski michk...@gmail.com [firebird-support]]

Firebird also doesn't support data partitioning, extended window functions

--
Regards,
Michal Kurczabinski


2018-11-06 14:44 GMT+01:00, Fabiano Bonin
fabiano.bo...@personalsoft.com.br [firebird-support]
:
> Firebird doesn't support schemas.
> This is the main reason I am replacing it by PostgreSQL in all my projects.
>
> In versions prior to 3.0, there is a limit on SQL instruction size, what
> makes it hard to use with frameworks like Hibernate, which tends to
> generate huge SQL instructions.
> But this is solved in version 3.0, so you should disconsider this one if
> you are using this version.
>
> There is a 31 characters table name limit, the can bring some restrictions
> if you are planning to create a multi-database application and you use big
> table names.
>
> But, if your project will be bound to a single database, you can live with
> these issues.
>
> The advantages I see on Firebird over PostgreSQL is single file database,
> great charset and collation support, easiest to mantain, doesn't bring a
> bunch of features you will never use, small installation size.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
> Em ter, 6 de nov de 2018 às 11:10, Kjell Rilbe
> kjell.ri...@marknadsinformation.se [firebird-support] <
> firebird-support@yahoogroups.com> escreveu:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We've been using Firebird "forever". For upcoming projects and also
>> possible replacement in existing ones, we're considering PostgreSQL.
>>
>> What would you say is the pros and cons of Firebird vs. PostgreSQL?
>>
>> I'm aware that the answers may very well be different depending on
>> application and usage patterns, but I would like to start with
>> considerations i general terms, e.g. framework support (e.g. Entity
>> Framework), admin tools availability and usability (Windows and possibly
>> Mac), query performance in general, resource load, SQL standard
>> compliance,
>> stability, development progress (new features, fixing bugs, ...) etc.
>>
>> Mvh,
>> Kjell
>>
>> [cid:part1.5A72A320.2CD4BAEA@marknadsinformation.se]
>>
>> Kjell Rilbe
>> Telefon: 08-761 06 55
>> Mobil: 0733-44 24 64
>>
>> Marknadsinformation i Sverige AB
>> Ulvsundavägen 106C
>> 168 67 Bromma
>> www.marknadsinformation.se
>> 08-514 905 90
>>
>> [Företagskontakt.se]
>> [Personkontakt.se]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
pozdrawiam / regards,
Michał Kurczabiński

Re: [firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Fabiano Bonin fabiano.bo...@personalsoft.com.br [firebird-support]]

Firebird doesn't support schemas.
This is the main reason I am replacing it by PostgreSQL in all my projects.

In versions prior to 3.0, there is a limit on SQL instruction size, what
makes it hard to use with frameworks like Hibernate, which tends to
generate huge SQL instructions.
But this is solved in version 3.0, so you should disconsider this one if
you are using this version.

There is a 31 characters table name limit, the can bring some restrictions
if you are planning to create a multi-database application and you use big
table names.

But, if your project will be bound to a single database, you can live with
these issues.

The advantages I see on Firebird over PostgreSQL is single file database,
great charset and collation support, easiest to mantain, doesn't bring a
bunch of features you will never use, small installation size.

Regards,




Em ter, 6 de nov de 2018 às 11:10, Kjell Rilbe
kjell.ri...@marknadsinformation.se [firebird-support] <
firebird-support@yahoogroups.com> escreveu:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> We've been using Firebird "forever". For upcoming projects and also
> possible replacement in existing ones, we're considering PostgreSQL.
>
> What would you say is the pros and cons of Firebird vs. PostgreSQL?
>
> I'm aware that the answers may very well be different depending on
> application and usage patterns, but I would like to start with
> considerations i general terms, e.g. framework support (e.g. Entity
> Framework), admin tools availability and usability (Windows and possibly
> Mac), query performance in general, resource load, SQL standard compliance,
> stability, development progress (new features, fixing bugs, ...) etc.
>
> Mvh,
> Kjell
>
> [cid:part1.5A72A320.2CD4BAEA@marknadsinformation.se]
>
> Kjell Rilbe
> Telefon: 08-761 06 55
> Mobil: 0733-44 24 64
>
> Marknadsinformation i Sverige AB
> Ulvsundavägen 106C
> 168 67 Bromma
> www.marknadsinformation.se
> 08-514 905 90
>
> [Företagskontakt.se]
> [Personkontakt.se]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>

[firebird-support] Firebird vs. PostgreSQL

[Kjell Rilbe kjell.ri...@marknadsinformation.se [firebird-support]]

Hi,

We've been using Firebird "forever". For upcoming projects and also possible 
replacement in existing ones, we're considering PostgreSQL.

What would you say is the pros and cons of Firebird vs. PostgreSQL?

I'm aware that the answers may very well be different depending on application 
and usage patterns, but I would like to start with considerations i general 
terms, e.g. framework support (e.g. Entity Framework), admin tools availability 
and usability (Windows and possibly Mac), query performance in general, 
resource load, SQL standard compliance, stability, development progress (new 
features, fixing bugs, ...) etc.

Mvh,
Kjell

[cid:part1.5A72A320.2CD4BAEA@marknadsinformation.se]

Kjell Rilbe
Telefon: 08-761 06 55
Mobil: 0733-44 24 64

Marknadsinformation i Sverige AB
Ulvsundavägen 106C
168 67 Bromma
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