Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-05 Thread Igor Matutinovic
Reply to Steven and Ted By genetic constraints I assume you simply mean that we have certain capacities and are not omnipotent. Is not conflict and war an indicator of our individual failure to manage social complexity? Or would you argue that war is social complexity management? I was

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-05 Thread Robert Ulanowicz
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Pedro Marijuan wrote: Dear Igor and colleagues, Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or even un-answerable... Pedro, Yes, unanswerable in the absolute sense, but there are some quantitative approximations that yield helpful insights.

[Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
To: Igor / Ted / Stan First, Igor. I found your perspective here to be 180 degrees off from mine! On Feb 5, 2007, at 6:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reply to Steven and Ted By genetic constraints I assume you simply mean that we have certain capacities and are not omnipotent. Is not

Re: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread John Collier
Hi folks, I'll take a few minutes from my moving and dealing with academic emergencies at UKZN to make a comment here. Jerry brings up a point that keeps arising in the literature one constraints and information. Recall that Shannon said that they are the same thing. That is a clue. Loet and I

Re: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
This is my reply to Jerry (acknowledging that John's reply to Jerry below says it as well as -- probably better than -- I can), who said: Stan's comment deserves to be attended to. The many complexities facing us as society can be parsed as follows, using a specification hierarcy: {physical

RE: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread Loet Leydesdorff
Dear colleagues, I agree with most of what is said, but it does not apply to social systems because these -- and to a lesser extent also psychological ones -- operate differently from the hierarchical formations that are generated naturally. That is why we oppose nature to culture in the

Re: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Dear List, I must disagree with the notion that there is any real separation of nature and culture. There are things that can be known that do not exist - as a general category that includes culture - but culture does not stand alone - it's right up there with irrational numbers and