Dear Robert, > For example, information is continually being created and destroyed in > ecological systems.
Exactly! Even in simple physical artifacts such as computers, we delete/erase information regularly and generate information (as program outputs). > ... to understand what the physicists are claiming. It seems to me, given spatiotemporal distance big enough, one does not see such phenomena which generate/destroy information. Physics builds on laws of conservation. Best, Gordana ------------------------------------------------ Dr Dr Gordana Dodig Crnkovic, Associate Professor http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc/ Mälardalen University School of Innovation, Design and Engineering Box 883, SE-721 23 Västerås, Sweden -----Original Message----- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Robert Ulanowicz Sent: den 1 februari 2011 01:10 To: ro...@robinfaichney.org Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] On Stan's reply to Gavin > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Robin Faichney > <ro...@robinfaichney.org>wrote: >> "Conservation of information" can be translated as >> meaning that physical laws do not break down, and the state of >> affairs at one time can be considered "encoded" in the state of >> affairs at another time. For instance, events within the event horizon >> of a black hole (or, on the holographic principle, on the surface of >> the event horizon) could, in principle, be determined by examination >> of the Hawking radiation that escapes as the hole diminishes. Dear Robin, I have always wondered what physicists meant when they talked about "conservation of information", because Shannon-like measures are definitely not state variables, and hence not conserved. For example, information is continually being created and destroyed in ecological systems. Even if the laws of nature do not break down, there simply are not enough of them to encode complex situations. While the laws themselves are all conservative, the implicit boundary value problem is *necessarily* contingent. This accounts for the reality and ubiquity of indeterminacy in complex systems. I find it difficult to imagine how stochastic events such as occur within a black hole could possibly be "determined" by Hawking radiation, or even by anything more reliable. Could you possibly guide me to some reference where I could attempt again to understand what the physicists are claiming. Thanks, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert E. Ulanowicz | Tel: +1-352-378-7355 Arthur R. Marshall Laboratory | FAX: +1-352-392-3704 Department of Biology | Emeritus, Chesapeake Biol. Lab Bartram Hall 110 | University of Maryland University of Florida | Email <u...@cbl.umces.edu> Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web <http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
