Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-15 Thread Pedro Marijuan
Dear FIS colleagues, I disagree with the comments by Steven and Stan on the nature of complexity. How can one substantiate and quantify social complexity if the previous complexity within the society's individuals has not been solved? At the time being, there is no accepted rigorous

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-15 Thread Guy A Hoelzer
Dear Pedro and colleagues, I want to respond only to the first paragraph of your recent post. on 12/15/06 3:11 AM, Pedro Marijuan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear FIS colleagues, I disagree with the comments by Steven and Stan on the nature of complexity. How can one substantiate and

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-15 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Using my last posting for the week, I will support Guy's posting below: As I pointed out in my 1985 book on scale/compositional hierarchically organized systems, the fact that different levels cannot dynamically interact (must be separated by order of magnitude differences if they ARE to be

[Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-14 Thread Steven Ericsson-Zenith
Dear List, I agree with Stan Salthe that Tainter's kinds of complexity are not kinds at all but simply different circumstances in which complexity appears. From a anthropological point of view, it should be clear that no scholar wisely references Wikipedia unless it is to study the

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-14 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Steven's criticisms of of Joseph's text are good ones. I would like to address one question he raises: I feel a clear definition of complexity is missing from Tainter's discussion and I see distinct concepts being confused. I find myself, for example, wanting a clear specification of complexity