Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?
Dear Dr. Isiegas, I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality. Best wishes, Joseph B. - Original Message - From: Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: Carolina Isiegas cisie...@gmail.com Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear Dr. Isiegas: I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF. Please note that this measure is different from the conventional sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more the structural information inhering in the neuronal network. John Collier (also a FISer) calls such information enformation to draw attention to its different nature. With best wishes for success, Bob Ulanowicz Dear list, I have been reading during the last year all these interesting exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific backgound (Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the topic of neuroinformation, how information exists within the Central Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory, specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such brain functions (In Ted Abel´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions and in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the information flow within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex that in the simple pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for you Fishers or Fisers, how should we contemplate the micro and macro structures of information within the neural realm? what is Neuroinformation? Best wishes, -- Carolina Isiegas ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?
Dear Pedro, Carolina and FIS Colleagues, Firstly I want to congratulate Pedro and team for new FIS web site! It looks nice and I am sure it will be useful tool for all of us. Secondly – what is Neuroinformation? From point of view of General Information Theory, it is needed a Subject for which the reflection became information after receiving the evidence what the reflection reflects. But what we have into the Subject? Does he operate with information or only with signals and reflections? Who is/are internal Sub-Subject(s) and evidence(s)? After receiving answers to these questions we may create hypothesizes what is Neuroinformation. I have my own understanding but it will be more good to listen other opinions. What has been investigated by Neuroscience till now? Friendly regards Krassimir From: Carolina Isiegas Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 2:46 PM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear list, I have been reading during the last year all these interesting exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific backgound (Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the topic of neuroinformation, how information exists within the Central Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory, specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such brain functions (In Ted Abel´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions and in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the information flow within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex that in the simple pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for you Fishers or Fisers, how should we contemplate the micro and macro structures of information within the neural realm? what is Neuroinformation? Best wishes, -- Carolina Isiegas ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?
Dear all - I support Joseph's remarks and would suggest that information in general is a process that unfortunately is formulated as a noun. Inspired by Bucky Fuller's I think I am a verb I suggest that Information is a verb It is a verb because it describes a process. Although that solves one problem we need to be able to describe a set of signs that have the potential to initiate the process of informing through interpretation. I would not suggest we create another word but recognize that the word information has many meanings and that when it is describing a process it has a verb-like quality to it and when it describes a set of sign that have the potential to be interpreted and hence become information it is acting as a noun. I would also suggest that a simple definition of the term information is not possible because its meaning is so context dependent. This is true of all words but even more so for information. For those that agree with my sentiments the above is information and for those that do not it is nonsense. My best wishes to both groups, Bob Logan __ Robert K. Logan Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications On 2014-12-04, at 6:40 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote: Dear Dr. Isiegas, I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality. Best wishes, Joseph B. - Original Message - From: Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: Carolina Isiegas cisie...@gmail.com Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear Dr. Isiegas: I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF. Please note that this measure is different from the conventional sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more the structural information inhering in the neuronal network. John Collier (also a FISer) calls such information enformation to draw attention to its different nature. With best wishes for success, Bob Ulanowicz Dear list, I have been reading during the last year all these interesting exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific backgound (Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the topic of neuroinformation, how information exists within the Central Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory, specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such brain functions (In Ted Abel´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions and in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the information flow within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex that in the simple pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for you Fishers or Fisers, how should we contemplate the micro and macro structures of information within the neural realm? what is Neuroinformation? Best wishes, -- Carolina Isiegas ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?
Dear Bob, I think, there is no conflict between two points of view – information may be a process and it may be a static depending of what kind of reflection it is. For instance, we reflect the world around: - as static - by photos, art images, sculptures, etc.; - as dynamic - by movies, theater plays, ballet, etc.; - and, at the end, by both types – by static text which creates dynamical imaginations in our consciousness. Friendly regards Krassimir PS: This is my second post for this week. So, I say: Goodbye to the next one! From: Bob Logan Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:54 PM To: Joseph Brenner Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear all - I support Joseph's remarks and would suggest that information in general is a process that unfortunately is formulated as a noun. Inspired by Bucky Fuller's I think I am a verb I suggest that Information is a verb It is a verb because it describes a process. Although that solves one problem we need to be able to describe a set of signs that have the potential to initiate the process of informing through interpretation. I would not suggest we create another word but recognize that the word information has many meanings and that when it is describing a process it has a verb-like quality to it and when it describes a set of sign that have the potential to be interpreted and hence become information it is acting as a noun. I would also suggest that a simple definition of the term information is not possible because its meaning is so context dependent. This is true of all words but even more so for information. For those that agree with my sentiments the above is information and for those that do not it is nonsense. My best wishes to both groups, Bob Logan __ Robert K. Logan Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications On 2014-12-04, at 6:40 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote: Dear Dr. Isiegas, I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality. Best wishes, Joseph B. - Original Message - From: Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: Carolina Isiegas cisie...@gmail.com Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear Dr. Isiegas: I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF. Please note that this measure is different from the conventional sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more the structural information inhering in the neuronal network. John Collier (also a FISer) calls such information enformation to draw attention to its different nature. With best wishes for success, Bob Ulanowicz Dear list, I have been reading during the last year all these interesting exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific backgound (Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the topic of neuroinformation, how information exists within the Central Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory, specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such brain functions (In Ted Abel´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions and in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the information flow within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex that in the simple pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for you Fishers or Fisers, how should we contemplate the micro and macro structures of information within the neural realm? what is Neuroinformation? Best wishes, -- Carolina Isiegas ___
Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?
Cari Tutti, Krassimir Markov ha ragione. L'informazione è un processo spazio-temporale statico-dinamico. Un'opera d'arte o un bene culturale è nello stesso tempo informato e informatore.Per questo è meglio parlare di tras-informazione. La Neuroinformation è la più alta e completa forma di tras-informazione emo-ra-zionale (intelligenza razionale e intelligenza emotiva). Essa si articola in : significazione, informazione, comunicazione. Triade semiotica indispensabile per comprendere e interpretare ogni esistenza e ogni conoscenza del mondo fisico, psichico e metafisico. Qualunque scienza naturale o umana o sociale non può farne a meno. Grazie e auguri per Carolina Isiegas. Francesco Rizzo. 2014-12-04 15:57 GMT+01:00 Krassimir Markov mar...@foibg.com: Dear Bob, I think, there is no conflict between two points of view – information may be a process and it may be a static depending of what kind of reflection it is. For instance, we reflect the world around: - as static - by photos, art images, sculptures, etc.; - as dynamic - by movies, theater plays, ballet, etc.; - and, at the end, by both types – by static text which creates dynamical imaginations in our consciousness. Friendly regards Krassimir PS: This is my second post for this week. So, I say: Goodbye to the next one! *From:* Bob Logan lo...@physics.utoronto.ca *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:54 PM *To:* Joseph Brenner joe.bren...@bluewin.ch *Cc:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear all - I support Joseph's remarks and would suggest that information in general is a process that unfortunately is formulated as a noun. Inspired by Bucky Fuller's I think I am a verb I suggest that Information is a verb It is a verb because it describes a process. Although that solves one problem we need to be able to describe a set of signs that have the potential to initiate the process of informing through interpretation. I would not suggest we create another word but recognize that the word information has many meanings and that when it is describing a process it has a verb-like quality to it and when it describes a set of sign that have the potential to be interpreted and hence become information it is acting as a noun. I would also suggest that a simple definition of the term information is not possible because its meaning is so context dependent. This is true of all words but even more so for information. For those that agree with my sentiments the above is information and for those that do not it is nonsense. My best wishes to both groups, Bob Logan __ Robert K. Logan Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications On 2014-12-04, at 6:40 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote: Dear Dr. Isiegas, I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality. Best wishes, Joseph B. - Original Message - From: Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: Carolina Isiegas cisie...@gmail.com Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation? Dear Dr. Isiegas: I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF. Please note that this measure is different from the conventional sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more the structural information inhering in the neuronal network. John Collier (also a FISer) calls such information enformation to draw attention to its different nature. With best wishes for success, Bob Ulanowicz Dear list, I have been reading during the last year all these interesting exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific backgound (Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the topic of neuroinformation, how information exists within the Central Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory, specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such brain functions (In Ted Abel´s
