Re: [Fis] mind-mind

2017-11-01 Thread HowlBloom

mind to mind experiments have been done in the field of  brain-machine 
interface since 2014.
 
see: 
http://www.washington.edu/news/2014/11/05/uw-study-shows-direct-brain-interface-between-humans/
 
--
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Howardbloom.net
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Cosmos Creates  ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich), 
How I  Accidentally Started the Sixties (“a monumental,epic, glorious 
literary  achievement.” Timothy Leary), and The Muhammad Code:  How a Desert 
Prophet  Gave You ISIS, al Qaeda, and Boko Haram--or How Muhammad Invented 
Jihad (
“a  terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam,” David Swindle, PJ  
Media).
Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting  Scholar
—Graduate Psychology Department, NewYork University
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In a message dated 11/1/2017 8:13:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
mar...@foibg.com writes:

Dear  Alex and FIS Colleagues,

Thank you for the nice remark.

I had  listen about such hypothesis but till now I had no participate in
any  experiment of transferring ideas mind-mind. Maybe you had taken place
in  such experiments. Please, give link to publications in scientific
issues  about this very interesting phenomenon.

Simple question: If it is  possible to transfer ideas mind-mind, why you
use FIS List to send your  ideas to us?

Friendly greetings
Krassimir

PS: Unfortunately,  this is my second post for this week and I please to
excuse me for  answering the next posts after week.



From: Alex Hankey
Sent:  Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:21 PM
To: Krassimir Markov
Cc: FIS  Webinar
Subject: Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles

RE: P1. Information  is information, neither matter nor energy.

M1. Information is a class  of reflections in material entities. Not every
reflection is information.  Only subjectively comprehended reflections are
information.


ME:  Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in  Rupert
Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication.
Lots of Quantitative  Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore.


The Experience  Information model of the Cognitive States shows that such
Information  States Are Not Material Entities.
They are based round instabilities in  Networks of Neurons.


The ability to model Seventh Sense  Communication means that this
phenomenon becomes one of
Four Separate  Ways to Generate Empirical Evidence in support of them.


Hence  Information is Not Matter or Energy.


This is but one example of how  Principles 1 to 5 can be  supported.



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Re: [Fis] mind-mind

2017-11-01 Thread Michel Petitjean
Dear Krassimir, dear ALex, dear All,

I agree with Krassimir that ideas cannot be transmitted directly from
Mind to Mind.
Being a materialist, I consider that only matter exists.
Does it mean that information is matter or energy?
No.
Let me discuss about this contradiction.
Parenthesis: energy is linked to mass through math modeling of
physical laws, and mass is a property of matter (could also be linked
to a modeling concept, but it is unimportant here).
People (not only scientists) build math and non math models to attempt
to explain what they observe.
Would you consider that math is matter?
Probably no.
Thus math and non math models that we build in our heads are not matter.
However they are produced through some biochemical process, and as
such they originate from matter.
Eventually, it could be considered that math and other concepts are a
somewhat special part of matter, but I think that claim would not be
accepted in our current language(s).
I consider that "soul", "god", and some other concepts are built in our heads.
In my opinion, these concepts at best incoherent, if not worse.
Remark: I have nothing against religions, as far as believers do not
impose to me the consequences of their beliefs.
Religious beliefs must be private affairs.
Here, please accept my apologies if some of you are shocked by the
previous sentences.

Information is like math: it is a modeling concept applied to some situations.
However, I do not claim that information can be reduced to the math
concepts of information.

To conclude:

1. I agree with Principle 1 of Pedro.

2. I assume potential contradictions in my views. No problem: I am a
poor philosopher.
Then,I never claimed that I am "built" to be able to elaborate a
coherent theory about life, consciousness , etc. May be it is
impossible. May be that cannot be decided, etc.
All that is opinions. It is just nice and funny to discuss information
and so on.

3. If I would vote for a definition of information, I would retain the
one of Karl.
Citing Karl in his post of the 3 Oct 2017:
"Data is that what we see by using the eyes. Information is that what
we do not see by using the eyes, but we see by using the brain;
because it is the background to that what we see by using the eyes."

All my best,

Michel.

Michel Petitjean
MTi, INSERM UMR-S 973, University Paris 7,
35 rue Helene Brion, 75205 Paris Cedex 13, France.
Phone: +331 5727 8434; Fax: +331 5727 8372
E-mail: petitjean.chi...@gmail.com (preferred),
michel.petitj...@univ-paris-diderot.fr
http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html

> Dear Alex and FIS Colleagues,
>
> Thank you for the nice remark.
>
> I had listen about such hypothesis but till now I had no participate in any 
> experiment of transferring ideas mind-mind. Maybe you had taken place in such 
> experiments. Please, give link to publications in scientific issues about 
> this very interesting phenomenon.
>
> Simple question: If it is possible to transfer ideas mind-mind, why you use 
> FIS List to send your ideas to us?
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
> PS: Unfortunately, this is my second post for this week and I please to 
> excuse me for answering the next posts after week.
>
>
>
> From: Alex Hankey
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:21 PM
> To: Krassimir Markov
> Cc: FIS Webinar
> Subject: Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles
>
> RE: P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>
> M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every 
> reflection is information. Only subjectively comprehended reflections are 
> information.
>
> ME: Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in Rupert 
> Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication.
> Lots of Quantitative Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore.
>
> The Experience Information model of the Cognitive States shows that such 
> Information States Are Not Material Entities.
> They are based round instabilities in Networks of Neurons.
>
> The ability to model Seventh Sense Communication means that this phenomenon 
> becomes one of Four Separate Ways to Generate Empirical Evidence in support 
> of them.
>
> Hence Information is Not Matter or Energy.
>
> This is but one example of how Principles 1 to 5 can be supported.

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[Fis] mind-mind

2017-11-01 Thread Krassimir Markov
Dear Alex and FIS Colleagues,

Thank you for the nice remark.

I had listen about such hypothesis but till now I had no participate in
any experiment of transferring ideas mind-mind. Maybe you had taken place
in such experiments. Please, give link to publications in scientific
issues about this very interesting phenomenon.

Simple question: If it is possible to transfer ideas mind-mind, why you
use FIS List to send your ideas to us?

Friendly greetings
Krassimir

PS: Unfortunately, this is my second post for this week and I please to
excuse me for answering the next posts after week.



From: Alex Hankey
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 12:21 PM
To: Krassimir Markov
Cc: FIS Webinar
Subject: Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles

RE: P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.

M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
reflection is information. Only subjectively comprehended reflections are
information.


ME: Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in Rupert
Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication.
Lots of Quantitative Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore.


The Experience Information model of the Cognitive States shows that such
Information States Are Not Material Entities.
They are based round instabilities in Networks of Neurons.


The ability to model Seventh Sense Communication means that this
phenomenon becomes one of
Four Separate Ways to Generate Empirical Evidence in support of them.


Hence Information is Not Matter or Energy.


This is but one example of how Principles 1 to 5 can be supported.



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Re: [Fis] (no subject)

2017-11-01 Thread Michel Godron

Prière de me désabonner

Cordialement.
M. Godron
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Re: [Fis] About 10 Principles

2017-11-01 Thread Alex Hankey
RE: P1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.

M1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
reflection is information. Only subjectively comprehended reflections are
information.

ME: Ideas can be transmitted directly from Mind to Mind - as in Rupert
Sheldrake's 7th Sense Communication.
Lots of Quantitative Evidence that Materialists Prefer to Ignore.

The Experience Information model of the Cognitive States shows that such
Information States Are Not Material Entities.
They are based round instabilities in Networks of Neurons.

The ability to model Seventh Sense Communication means that this phenomenon
becomes one of
Four Separate Ways to Generate Empirical Evidence in support of them.

Hence *Information is Not Matter or Energy*.

This is but one example of how Principles 1 to 5 can be supported.

On 31 October 2017 at 14:07, Krassimir Markov  wrote:

> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> Many years ago, in 2011, I had written a special remark about scientific
> and non-scientific approaches to try to understand the world around. The
> letter of Logan Streondj returns this theme as actual today.
>
> The interrelations between scientific and non-scientific creating and
> perceiving the data and models as well the proper attitude to the world
> cultural heritage is one of the main problems to be investigated. The
> world common data bases make possible to exchange data of any kind. Some
> data could not be proved easy, some are assumed as "clear". What is the
> proper attitude to the ocean of the data we create and perceive? In
> addition, now we have a new phenomenon – artificially created data.
>
>
> The Modern Societies
> 
> Every group of Infoses, people in particular, forms a society if there is
> an agreement for communication interactions. An important element of this
> agreement is the availability of a common data base.
> We should not picture the data base like a number of drives with a certain
> data recorded, although it is the way it has been since the beginning – it
> was recorded on clay plates, papyrus, paper, etc. The ability for digital
> storage of the data lays the beginnings of the genesis of the “modern
> societies”. It is obvious that, there are as many societies as many
> different data bases exist, and a single Infos could belong to more than
> one society.
>
> The difference between the beliefs and the science
> ---
> Every belief is a totality of models, which are assumed and followed.
> Where is the difference between the belief and the science, which is also
> a combination of models to be followed?
> The answer is in the way we perceive these models and the attitude to them.
> There are two approaches – a hard and an easy one.
> The easy one is wonderfully described by the motto of the medieval
> theologian Anselm of Canterbury, lately canonized as St. Anselm
> (1033-1109): "Credo, ut intelligam!" (I believe in order to understand
> [St.Anselm]). One has to believe in the model, to understand and follow
> it. This is the religious approach – every subjective notion can turn into
> a commonly accepted model or dogma, as long as there is someone to believe
> in it and follow it implicitly.
> The “difficult” approach is described with the phrase "Intelligo, ut
> credam !" (I understand in order to believe), used by the German reformer
> Thomas Muentzer (~1490-1525) [Muentzer]. You have to understand the model
> and only after then to trust it if possible. This is the scientific
> approach – every science builds models – hypothesizes, which are
> repeatedly tested before assumed to be true. The scientific approach
> includes a permanent revaluation and improvement of the existing models
> according to the permanently changing environment.
> In every society, building and exchanging of models are basic activities.
> Whether they are perceived with the “easy” or the “difficult” approach is
> a question only of the circumstances, executors and users.
> Keeping in mind the limited abilities of the human brain, we can presume
> that the “easy” approach would probably dominate. Just a small part of the
> humanity would be able to build and understand the “difficult” scientific
> models. The users will not have the strength to test the models for
> themselves so the only option left would be to “believe in order to
> understand”.
> The role and the importance of particular beliefs in a certain society are
> determined by the influence of the people ready to doubt the religious
> models, on the others who easily and “blindly” follow the dogmas. Let
> remark that in the scientific world the “easy approach” is everyday
> practice. We all believe that the scientific works represent proved facts
> (maybe by authors). However, who knows? We trust in authorities.
>
> Sometimes we have to doubt!
>
> That is why the background to modern science is in the wisdom of St.
>